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Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills

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to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.

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As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients.

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When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find

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that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research

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program.

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Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit.

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However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs.

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For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians

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the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.

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Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene.

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Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast.

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I am your host, Toyosi Onwuemene.

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I'm excited to be here today because I have a really amazing host on the show, Dr. Jerry

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Bloomfield.

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Jerry, welcome to the show.

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Hey, Toyosi.

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Thanks for having me.

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So Jerry, you are what I would call an esteemed clinician scientist, and you may not feel

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that way.

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And I find this to be the trend.

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Most people just don't feel like they're distinguished, but they are.

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You are.

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And I wonder if you would just introduce yourself to our audience with regard to your role as

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a clinician scientist and how you came to be here.

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Thanks, Toyosi.

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You're too kind.

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My name is Jerry Bloomfield.

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I am an associate professor with tenure in the Department of Medicine in the Division

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of Cardiology.

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I'm a clinical cardiologist, and I do all the things that academic cardiologists do,

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the tripartite mission, clinical research, education.

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I also have a role within the Duke Global Health Institute, where I'm the associate

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director for research, which ties into what I do as a clinician investigator, which is

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predominantly in the global health space.

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And global health doesn't always mean international health, but most of my research portfolio

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is in low and middle income countries, as well as doing research in impoverished, underresourced

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areas of the US, particularly in the US South.

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I've been at Duke for, I think, 16 years now, four of those were during my cardiology fellowship.

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And yeah, like most clinician investigators, just keep trying to put shots on goal.

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Wow.

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So I feel like I've already learned something from you, Jerry.

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You talk about global health not always being international work.

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Could you speak more about that?

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Absolutely.

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The field of global health has evolved tremendously over the last few decades, mostly in terms

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of what our understanding of global health is.

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So we no longer really talk in terms of international health.

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We don't really talk in terms of tropical medicine.

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There's a lot of old connotations aren't really relevant as much.

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And even if our initial understanding of global health, that term really became popular

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I'd say in the early 2000s, early 2010s, where global health, as I understand it, and as

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I involved it in my research, is really a methodology of your research that addresses

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the health inequities for populations who are historically been under-resourced or experiencing

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worse health outcomes.

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On a global scale, that occurs in low and middle income countries.

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I mean, that's just, you know, that's sort of at the front door.

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However, even within higher income countries or upper middle income countries, as we know,

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take the US as an example, there are, you know, gross disparities, gross differences

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in certain regions and other ways that we sort of slice and dice society.

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So global health to me is really research that addresses vulnerable populations and

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doing things to mitigate some of these barriers to better health.

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Thank you, Jerry.

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I really appreciate you shedding light on that perspective.

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And that really does make sense in terms of it's global.

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And so if you look at it from the US perspective, you might want to think of it as internationally.

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But if we think about the whole world, it really is, it's global from that perspective,

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which is cool to think about.

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Now, many, many people want to get into global health research and find it to be difficult.

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So I'd love you to talk about your journey and how you came to be a researcher in the

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global health space and how other people potentially could think about it as they're interested

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in it.

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My journey is a circuitous one, full of providence and serendipity.

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I'll give you the short truncated version.

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I knew I wanted to be a cardiologist from back when I was in internal medicine residency.

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Because of my background and upbringing, my parents were immigrants to the US in the 1960s.

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I always had a global view of the world and global view of health.

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But during med school in the late 1990s, early 2000s, there was really no great model of

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how one incorporated international health, which was a term at the time, and cardiovascular

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disease.

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That changed for me when a friend of mine who had graduated residency a few years before

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me went to work in Kenya as a missionary doctor.

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So early 2000s, and he went to Kenya to treat HIV in a mission hospital.

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And after working there for a few years, he said, Jerry, you got to come out and see what

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life is like out here and see what we're seeing and how we're practicing medicine.

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So this was in 2003.

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And I'll tell you, Toyosia, I went out to Kijabi, Kenya, the city I was working at the

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time.

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This is back before we had smartphones and things like that.

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I went with a stack of up to date articles on treating all of the worms and all the infections

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and the manifestations of TB, expecting that that's what I would be treating in this small

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hospital.

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But in fact, honestly, what I spent most of my time doing that summer of 2003 was treating

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hypertension, diabetes, and heart failure in a very remote part of Kenya.

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So that started to put some connections in my mind to say, well, here I am with a passion

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for cardiovascular disease and CBD risk factor issues.

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And here's a place where someone like me could partner with other Kenyan physicians to actually

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do something about this burden.

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What really sort of made this fit for me, what really sort of sparked a passion for

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me for this was the fact that the patients who were having these conditions, they had

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no idea what they were.

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They didn't have the terminology for them, much less did we have medicines.

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And even physicians, they weren't attuned to cardiovascular diseases.

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So flash forward many years, I came to Duke for cardiology fellowship.

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I applied for some fellowship grants, worked with mentors to apply for larger grants to

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start a cardiovascular research program to understand what's causing all of these cardiovascular

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diseases in low and middle income countries, specifically in Kenya.

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So that's what got me started in it.

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Now, what's beneficial for folks who are interested in global health and cardiovascular disease

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these days is that we're 20 years on from that.

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So everyone or most people are aware of the global burden of disease, the global burden

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of cardiovascular disease.

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So the fact that 70 to 80% of all cardiovascular disease deaths occur in low and middle income

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countries where we've made great strides in decreasing CBD deaths in the US, in many parts

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of the world, that curve is actually on the upswing.

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So there are a lot of opportunities, both NIH funded, both foundation supported, and

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I have a lot of colleagues who use their non-professional time to go abroad to someplace where they

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have partners and an opportunity to use their skills.

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So I'd say there are a lot of roads into global health these days, and I continue to use the

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academic route and the clinician investigator route.

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That's really, really amazing.

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And thank you for sharing.

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What a remarkable story.

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I am curious to know, you talk about partners, and I think it is important as we think about

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doing this work globally, especially outside of the United States, where there's a concern

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that researchers go and they do research in a different country and then they come back

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home and the benefit of the research may not accrue to the places in which they've done

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the research.

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Can you speak to what some of those partnerships look like in terms of bringing the benefit

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back to those communities?

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You know, you hit the nail on the head, you know, parachute research.

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I mean, my goodness, we have so many examples of that, both in the cardiac space and the

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HIV care space, just a real travesty.

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I think the way you get around that is making sure that you are not bringing a solution,

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looking for a problem.

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That's really important for people coming from the U.S. specifically who haven't engaged

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in global health research.

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If often, well, I have this new tool or I have this new app, or if only folks would

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do this, then things would change and health would be better.

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What's really been instructive for me is really taking the time to listen.

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So it took me a few years of working in Kenya to really realize that I had only scratched

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the surface of what some of the health system issues were, what some of the issues that

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patients and families face, why is it that nurses weren't checking blood pressures in

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a particular hospital I was visiting?

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Well, that's because the ratio was one to 30.

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What do you expect these people to do in the middle of the night and one person gets really

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sick?

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So I think time is the real factor there and actually getting to know your partners and

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listening and sometimes just injecting a little bit of silence into the conversation

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and let that silence leave room for your partners to chime in to.

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Thank you for sharing that perspective.

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I think it is really important to, even if we're not involved in global health research,

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to think about how our work serves the people that we are working with in the research endeavors

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that we continue and how listening is so important in anything we do really.

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I wonder if you can speak to kind of how can, now you got into research in global health,

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it sounds like at the level of being a resident.

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Let's say you are interested in this from being a med student, what are opportunities

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potentially that exist for medical students or how early can people get involved?

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Yeah, that's a great question.

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And I think there are a lot of opportunities for medical students.

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Number one, I would say that a lot of programs and I'm going to focus on the on the resident

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level for a second, but I think that is an indicator for medical students for whether

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or not there'll be opportunities for you.

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A lot of residency programs now offer a global health track or a global health interest.

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And that can be anything from six weeks abroad to a whole year abroad plus clinical research

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experiences.

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So for medical students, if your institution offers a global health residency option, that

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probably means that there are trainees and faculty and administrative staff who are thinking

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about work abroad.

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So that's a place where you could plug yourself into.

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There are other programs out there actually from the NIH for medical students.

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So there is a Fogarty Global Health Scholars Program.

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There's also a Fogarty Fulbright Program.

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And they have different eligibility criteria for various stages in training.

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But there are those two programs from the NIH plus the residency programs around the

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country I think are really great opportunities for students to plug into.

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There are also private foundation opportunities and they sort of come and go.

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So I don't feel like I have a good grasp on all of them.

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But there are also private foundations that will support medical students.

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But I would say if your institution has a global health residency or faculty that are

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doing global health, that's usually a good place to start.

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I like that.

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I appreciate what you're saying.

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It's that if people are already doing this work, it's a sign that there is a way to support

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the work.

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And so perhaps it might be more challenging to go to an institution where no one is doing

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work in global health research.

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It might be harder, not impossible probably, to get started.

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But just thinking about what opportunities already exist and kind of going with the momentum

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of that as well.

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And you know, Toyos, I mean, that actually relates to advice that I give cardiology fellow

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applicants sort of at a different stage in the game where you want to go if you're interested

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in global health as part of your career, you really want to be at a place where you won't

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be the only one.

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And I remember when I was applying for fellowship way back when being told things like, well,

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we've never done this before, but we'd be happy to support you and we'll open doors

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for you and we'll support this or we'll support that.

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It was very much appreciated.

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But if you step back, you realize that that's really a program or support around you.

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What you really want is a program that's supporting the idea, supporting the theme, supporting

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global health generally.

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So I would urge folks at any stage in their training to aim for a place where there are

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other people engaged in global health and that there is a well-oiled machine, that there

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is a, continue using analogies, that there is a steam engine that is moving in a good

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direction that you can join on to, but you're not having to lay down the tracks.

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That's what we did a couple of decades ago.

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No, that's awesome.

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What I hear you speak about is really the power and the importance of community.

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And you, as much as a lot of maybe our earlier training felt like a solo endeavor, it was

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never really solo, it becomes more important as you're moving from the medical student

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to resident to fellow and to faculty transition to really be part of a community that's engaged

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because then you're able to gather a lot more resources and your chances of being successful

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are much higher.

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Absolutely.

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Absolutely.

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Now, one thing that comes to mind is that many people who are interested in global health

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research are interested for a reason.

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Or you talk about having your parents who are immigrants and there are many trainees

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or early faculty who say, well, I have roots in a certain country or I have connections

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to a certain country.

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How do you recommend they address that where perhaps there is global health research ongoing

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at their institution, but not necessarily targeted to the country of interest?

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Yeah, I've learned a lot about that.

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I have a lot of conversations with folks who have that exact same story or that interest.

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And what I've learned from those colleagues is often your childhood experiences in a particular

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country are very different from your country as your experience as a physician.

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And so oftentimes people say, I grew up in X, I'd love to go back and do something on

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the medical side, but don't really have a great sense of what the healthcare system

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is currently and how the healthcare system works and who the right partners are.

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So those are all places that I encourage people to start to understand, well, what is the

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condition you're interested in?

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What is the approach?

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Who are the partners?

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And I think if one thing that that's really where it starts there, who are the partners?

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And if you're having to find and develop partners, that's great.

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That clearly takes more time.

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But I would really start with partners and partner as you said, Toyosi, partners in the

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true sense of partnership, not just, I know the CEO of this particular hospital, so we

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can do these great things, but actually speak with people, do some focus group work, have

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some, you know, get on Zoom or a chat or coffee or something and say, well, what is it that

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me, as whatever type of professional, what can I bring to the table?

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What can I do to help this environment?

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So I think that the partnership is one.

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And that's a great rationale for again, if an institution has ongoing partnerships, they

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have a relationship with somewhere already, that that's a great place to start because

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a lot of those formative questions have already been answered.

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And I guess the last thing I'll say, this might be for folks who are, you know, maybe

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earlier on in their careers is regardless of the site that you're engaged in, the methodology

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for global health research is what's most important.

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And once you have that methodology, once you have that experience, you can transport that

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to a country of your choosing.

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But if you can't do that yet, I would say irrespective of where you work, it's really

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the experience, the methodology, the hard knocks of learning, you know, partnership

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and sustainability.

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And once you sort of get and start to get that under your belt, you can transport that

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anywhere.

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I love it.

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I hear you saying in that don't be so fixated on one country that you miss what the goal

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of starting is all about is and the importance of having a moving train that you can jump

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on so that you can learn all the methodology that's necessary.

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And so as much as you may have a goal of a certain country, you really want to think

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about where is where are the resources already and already available?

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And how can I get my feet wet, so to speak, and then ultimately, as a more senior person,

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be able to look specifically at different countries?

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Is that fair to say?

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I think so.

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And I think the other side of that coin is as if you're someone from another country

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or have roots in a country that you want to go back and work in and partner with and serve,

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oftentimes you have the ears that someone not familiar with the country would never

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have.

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And so whatever the connections are, often those connections with leaders, those folks

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in influential ministries, public health officials, professional societies, those connections,

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that is really the connective tissue between global health research and implementation.

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So I think in academic medical centers, we're great on the research side.

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But oftentimes, take someone who knows the country intimately to say, well, how do we

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move these findings into practice?

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And so I think that is a strength that a lot of people who have international roots bring

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to the table to bridge that practice gap, knowing folks who can actually take these

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things to people.

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Sure, sure.

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So I'm hearing that methodology is important, but relationships are important as well.

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And this leveraging the strengths of those relationships to move research forward is

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important as well.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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All right, Jerry, one of the things I am hearing, it almost sounds as if this has been really

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easy.

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It's been a walk in the park.

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Let's talk about some of the challenges, especially the biggest challenges along the journey.

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Oh, boy.

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I hope I haven't presented this as easy.

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It's certainly fun, but it has not been easy.

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You know, I'll speak honestly.

293
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Global health, especially in cardiology, it's still a relatively small field.

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I think the 10 or a dozen of us who are really engaged in this, we all know each other and

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have similar stories of trying to get our careers off the ground.

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One of the big challenges actually was, and I think this challenge actually is sort of

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irrespective of field, you know, because I think a lot of us as we get older, we develop

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a niche, something that we're really passionate about and that distinguishes us.

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And in my case, that niche of global cardiovascular health was a niche that initially was thought

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as too niche, was thought as not relevant, not significant, the career pathway was undefined.

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And as you know, as a mentor, if you have a mentee whose career pathway you can't line

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up the building block to see where this leads to success, that's going to give you some

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anxiety.

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You might caution them to do other things.

305
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And that's what I experienced in my trajectory and in my career development was that struggle

306
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to say like, this is something I am passionate about.

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This is something I have a little bit of experience with, but I need the mentorship and the institutional

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support to actually take me to the next level.

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And that was a challenge.

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And those things are critical, as you know.

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And so it took time and it took external validation to speak in terms that my mentors would understand

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that this was a valid field.

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And that's the coin of the realm, the academic currency were publications and grants.

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And so getting a few of those out early and getting some few successes early made it easier

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for mentors to say, okay, well, maybe there's actually something here.

316
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I appreciate what you said.

317
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And you're right.

318
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It applies to so much more than just global health research.

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It's the sense that when you have an idea of really burning passion and people don't

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see the way forward, having that external validation is helpful in having grants and

321
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publications is important as well.

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One of the things I found, and perhaps this is just in hematology, but sometimes, especially

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at the fellow stage, trainees don't tend to understand how important it is to get funding

324
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because it's never free, but it seems like being able to do research in residency is

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free.

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It's like if you get grants or you don't get grants, you still get to do your work.

327
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I wonder if you want to speak to why it's important for those early funding opportunities

328
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and those early awards and how young faculty or young trainees might want to think about

329
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it.

330
00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:00,400
Yeah, it's critical, so critical.

331
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So there's the funding in and of itself, which allows you to do things that you're passionate

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about.

333
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I think that external validation piece is also critical because as your name gets talked

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about higher and higher up the chains, people speak in terms that they understand and they

335
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digest.

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So whether it's getting good scores on grants or getting fellowship grants or even foundation

337
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grants, the amount is really irrelevant.

338
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It's really just showing that there is some external validation that there's potentially

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a future here.

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And I would say something I didn't appreciate at the time when I was a fellow in training,

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but another really important reason to start to write grants early in your career, if you

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see yourself being in an academic career, is that you need the practice.

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And you only get better writing grants as with anything else in life with practice.

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And I've really benefited from some of the institutional resources for some friendly

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peer review and various things that I know exist at many institutions to make sure that

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your grant writing is superb.

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So use the practice because you need it.

348
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Maybe you'll realize later on that you need it, but you certainly do need it.

349
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Absolutely.

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And when the risk, when it seems less risky, it's probably most important to practice because

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if you fall, it's still okay.

352
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But you're right, because it's kind of like I think about it in terms of when you start

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your first year of fellowship at a new institution and you don't even know where the bathrooms

354
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are, how can you do a good consult?

355
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You just don't even know where you're going.

356
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And so I think it's the same way with writing grants where the more you write it, the more

357
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all those things fall away, you really focus on the science that you're presenting.

358
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That's right.

359
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Yeah.

360
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:06,800
Okay.

361
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:07,800
All right.

362
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So I wonder for someone who maybe they finished fellowship and they didn't have those opportunities

363
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that you talked about, and now they are junior faculty really now trying to move their career

364
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forward.

365
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Is it ever too late to get involved in global health research?

366
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And if not, how do you recommend people like that move forward?

367
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,880
Yeah, great, great, great question.

368
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:30,920
So no, I don't think it's too late.

369
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Not at all.

370
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:37,160
I think we, and I'll just be philosophical for just for a second.

371
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I think that is one of the benefits of the academy.

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One of the things that we benefit from is the ability to change our minds, our ability

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to have time, to have a little bit of mental space to say, what is it that I'm passionate

374
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about?

375
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And honestly, it's a blessing that not every career offers where you can say, how am I

376
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going to derive joy and passion and satisfaction from what I do?

377
00:28:06,120 --> 00:28:09,520
So that's an opportunity that we have.

378
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:16,520
And I think if someone is feeling that global health should be more central in their career,

379
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:18,160
you should go for it.

380
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Now there's no such thing as a free lunch.

381
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So you're going to have to put in the time and the effort to be successful, especially

382
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,240
if this is a departure from something you've done before.

383
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And you're going to have to show that the credibility, show that stick-to-it-iveness,

384
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:35,760
that passion.

385
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,320
You're going to have to show that you can do it.

386
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:40,120
But it's absolutely not too late.

387
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:45,600
Again, especially at an institution where others are involved in global health, I think

388
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it's an easier on-ramp.

389
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:53,840
But here's where I also say one thing that is not unique to global health, but it's certainly

390
00:28:53,840 --> 00:29:02,460
characteristic of global health, is this idea of team science and this idea of collaboration.

391
00:29:02,460 --> 00:29:11,260
By very nature of the fact that most of my research occurs in another country, that means

392
00:29:11,260 --> 00:29:17,960
that I have at least one partner, and I actually have many, who are working with me on these,

393
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:18,960
on these projects.

394
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So multiple PI relationships, two, three, or four multiple PIs relationships, those

395
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:28,040
are critical.

396
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:33,480
And if you're starting out in global health research, maybe you're a co-investigator on

397
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a project.

398
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:40,920
Maybe you're testing the waters as much as your potential collaborators are testing the

399
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:41,920
waters.

400
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:48,360
So I don't think it's too late, but I do think there are a lot of different ways to get engaged.

401
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:49,360
I love it.

402
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:50,360
I appreciate you saying that.

403
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:53,680
Because I think in all things, and you said it isn't unique to global health, it's what

404
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:54,960
do you want to do?

405
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:57,480
What is it that you are most passionate about?

406
00:29:57,480 --> 00:29:59,880
And how can you work to move it forward?

407
00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:03,840
And really sometimes that's thinking creatively as far as how do you fund it?

408
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:05,320
Who are the partners already engaged?

409
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:07,740
How do you connect with them in moving forward?

410
00:30:07,740 --> 00:30:08,740
So thank you.

411
00:30:08,740 --> 00:30:10,240
Thank you for sharing that perspective.

412
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:11,240
Yeah, great.

413
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:12,240
Thank you.

414
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,080
So we have come to the end of the show.

415
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:17,600
And I'm curious to know if there's one thing that I haven't asked about that you feel is

416
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:21,640
important to share with our audience.

417
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:28,160
I think the one thing that has been in my mind of late is a conversation I had with

418
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,320
a mentee of mine.

419
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:39,280
And we were talking about meeting those academic milestones and going on the promotion and

420
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:47,120
tenure pathway and how we are judged and measured along those ways.

421
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:52,920
And we had a conversation about success and significance.

422
00:30:52,920 --> 00:31:00,600
And I think my own approach is success, sometimes that's externally defined.

423
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:04,640
You've gotten this number of publications, these number of grants, you've become full

424
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:09,240
professor or your dean or this or whatever it is.

425
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:10,760
So those are externally defined.

426
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:11,760
Those are all great things.

427
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:12,760
Those are all good things.

428
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:14,960
Those are, that's the world we live in.

429
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,360
But I think it's not the same thing as significance.

430
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:22,680
And I do think that those circles do overlap significantly.

431
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:29,920
But I was encouraging my mentee, as we do the successful things, as we make our way

432
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:34,360
through the APT process and we progress, those are all good things.

433
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:41,320
Just to define for yourself what significance means, define for yourself, what is it that's

434
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:46,160
going to keep me up late at night or wake me up early in the morning that I'm joyful

435
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:47,320
about?

436
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:52,120
What is it that's going to make me have to be away from my family sometimes when I'd

437
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:53,200
rather be with them?

438
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:54,200
What's drawing me to do that?

439
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,120
And just remember significance.

440
00:31:56,120 --> 00:32:00,320
I think that's a good anchor.

441
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:01,720
I appreciate you saying that.

442
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:02,720
I like that.

443
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:03,720
Significance.

444
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:09,360
I think that's what we inherently, innately are shooting for as physicians, especially

445
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:12,720
who are doing this thing as scientists.

446
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:20,440
I wonder, and I wonder if maybe there might be a lot of this sometimes with especially

447
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:24,880
early career folks who don't necessarily understand the metrics for success.

448
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:30,760
To what extent is it possible to have significance without success?

449
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,040
I think that's very possible.

450
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:38,920
I'm not sure it's possible in academic medicine, given the way our current environment is set

451
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:44,760
up, but I think my true north is significance.

452
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:48,760
And I think if you're doing excellent work, I think if you're doing things that you're

453
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:52,920
passionate about, the success will follow.

454
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:57,160
I'm not saying that it's easy and that it's automatic.

455
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:04,360
I stay up late and I sometimes, unfortunately, work on a weekend, but I think if you aim

456
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:10,680
for significance and if you're using sound methodology, I think success will follow.

457
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:14,800
Yeah, I do believe to a great extent there's overlap.

458
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:19,040
I think also recognizing your environment, because you talked about whether you're doing

459
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:23,880
that within academic medicine and recognizing your environment and recognizing what those

460
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:30,320
metrics are, then you're able to align what you're doing with the metrics so that as you

461
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:35,000
are pushing for significance, you're addressing all the other things as well.

462
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:37,840
Because you certainly can do that outside of academic medicine, but if you're going

463
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:42,560
to stay within academic medicine, then it's worth understanding what the currency of the

464
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:47,200
environment is and trying to work to overlap the two.

465
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:49,760
I wonder if you want to speak some more to that.

466
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:55,160
Yeah, no, I think you can't ignore one for the other.

467
00:33:55,160 --> 00:34:01,480
And so again, if we're talking about the way academic medicine is currently, we have an

468
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:04,920
APT system that's fairly ingrained.

469
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:11,320
As you know, our institution is starting to think more broadly about types of scholarship

470
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:13,920
and how we judge scholarship.

471
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:16,360
Many institutions are.

472
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:24,080
But I think if promotion, if success in academia is part of what you're aiming for, there are

473
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:31,200
just certain metrics you have to be cognizant of while you also aim to do significant things

474
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:32,760
in this world.

475
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:33,760
Absolutely.

476
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:34,760
Absolutely.

477
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:38,480
It's being aware and savvy about your environment.

478
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:39,480
I love it.

479
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:40,480
I love it.

480
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:41,480
Well, Jerry, thank you.

481
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:42,480
You've shared some amazing insights.

482
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:44,520
I want to thank you for coming on the show.

483
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:46,600
It was my pleasure.

484
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:47,600
Thank you for the invitation.

485
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:51,400
All right, everyone, you've heard Dr. Bloomfield.

486
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:55,280
He's given us some really important insights, especially with regard to thinking about global

487
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:56,780
health research.

488
00:34:56,780 --> 00:35:01,840
If you can think of somebody else who needs to hear about this, please forward this episode.

489
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:07,000
And we look forward to talking with you again next time on the Clinician Researcher Podcast.

490
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:15,240
Thank you for listening.

491
00:35:15,240 --> 00:35:20,600
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Clinician Researcher Podcast, where academic

492
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:26,120
clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program, whether or not they

493
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:27,400
have a mentor.

494
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:33,500
If you found the information in this episode to be helpful, don't keep it all to yourself.

495
00:35:33,500 --> 00:35:35,240
Someone else needs to hear it.

496
00:35:35,240 --> 00:35:39,280
So take a minute right now and share it.

497
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:44,760
As you share this episode, you become part of our mission to help launch a new generation

498
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:50,520
of clinician researchers who make transformative discoveries that change the way we do health

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00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:51,520
care.

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00:35:51,520 --> 00:36:16,160
A