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Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills
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to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.
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As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients.
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When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find
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that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research
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program.
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Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit.
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However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs.
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For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians
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the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.
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Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene
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Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast.
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I'm your host, Toyosi Onwuemene, and it is a pleasure to be speaking with you today.
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Thank you for taking the time to listen as I talk today about preparing to negotiate
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your first faculty position.
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And I bring you this episode courtesy of my coaching clients tonight as we went through
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this in detail.
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And after we were done with the conversation, I really felt like it was important to bring
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to you so that you can think about what components are necessary to make sure that you've clarified
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as you are looking for your first faculty position.
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So as I have talked about in an earlier episode, one thing that people think about a lot is
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salary.
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They're like, oh, yes, I want to make sure I have the right salary.
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And I do think the salary negotiation is a very important negotiation, but it's not the
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only thing that you negotiate.
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And it's possible to negotiate well for salary and then to lose out on all the other things
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that kind of make the salary a little bit irrelevant.
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And we'll talk a little bit about some of those things today.
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But yeah, so in today's episode, I want to talk to you about preparing to negotiate your
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first faculty position.
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And the reason this is for people negotiating a first faculty position is because you don't
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know what you don't know when you're first starting out.
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You have no idea.
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By the time you've been around the block and then some, then you know what to ask for.
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And it's a different type of negotiation.
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But when you are starting out, this is your first major negotiation, you until this point
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have not had a real job in the sense that you've been in training this whole time.
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And now you have an opportunity within the confines of academic medicine to find a job,
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to find a career, to get started on and embark on a career that leads you to make the kind
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of impact you really want to make.
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So it is a big deal, but you don't know what you're missing.
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And so your primary job as someone who's negotiating your first faculty position is to have an
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inquisitive mind, ask lots of questions and be prepared to learn.
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And so it's an interesting concept to think about, but this really is about a learning
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opportunity.
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You have a chance to learn what the institution values and to decide how it aligns with your
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values or at least to think through how it aligns with your values and how you want to
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contribute through this institution as your platform.
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It's steep because you might be thinking of it as, I just want a job, give me a job right
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this moment.
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But what you really want to make sure you have is alignment between your goals and the
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goals of the institution you're going to, at least at a minimum, the goals of the division
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or the department in which you will be.
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So you want to make sure that you understand these components as you prepare to negotiate
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your first faculty position.
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Okay, that was a freebie.
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That wasn't even number one.
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The first thing that I think is most important is to give yourself enough time.
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Give yourself enough time because you are doing the hard work of really contemplating
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making a decision about what you want your career to look like.
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Now I'm talking to clinician scientists and I recognize that many people don't have, like
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I didn't have, the currency to really have your institution go to bat for you in terms
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of making the decision to fund you or to resource you to be able to tread water or do well in
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the years between your initial appointment when you actually get major funding to fund
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your own independent research program.
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And so it really does take time to think through all those things, to do the hard work of doing
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of those things.
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In fact, it's a great point to stop and say it's what we do in academics negotiate in
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our academic negotiation academy is to help people really think through what is needed
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to have a good first academic job negotiation.
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Clearly it's not the only thing that we help with because you know you think you come to
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just figure out the right salary and you recognize that what you're really negotiating is your
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impact.
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It's your career legacy and that's why it's important to give yourself enough time.
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There is a lot of pressure associated with finding the first faculty position and a lot
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of the pressure is around money.
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Hey, I have not earned any money in the last 10 years.
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That's been of significance.
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I owe a ton of money that's about becoming due.
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My family has been looking at me saying I can't believe you still are mooching off of
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us.
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When will you ever get a real job?
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So there's a lot of pressure.
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There's a lot of anxiety.
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There's a lot of worry.
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You want to give yourself enough time to make a good decision.
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Now I will tell you that while you are eager to finish your training and cross over into
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your first faculty position or perhaps you've been in private practice this whole time and
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you want to jump in to academic medicine as a faculty member, you want to give yourself
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enough time.
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It's a big decision.
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It's huge.
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It's the biggest decision you've made really since saying I'm going to start med school
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and go on this crazy journey because it's an informed decision.
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But you want to make sure that the gaps in your knowledge are filled and you do that
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by giving yourself enough time and at the same time surrounding yourself by somebody
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who can help you.
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So you want to give yourself enough time.
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You want to find a friend.
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You want to find a friend who will ask you the hard questions.
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You want to find a friend who's going to give you space for that level of introspection.
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And so it's important space that as a coach I have the privilege to walk through with
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people and I invite you to sign up to talk about whether a coaching relationship is meant
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to be, will work out, really will serve the needs that you have.
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And so that's an important thing that we should think, you should think about even as you
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prepare to negotiate your first faculty position is that you need enough time and you need
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a friend.
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And the reason, one of the other reasons you need a friend is that institutions do not
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negotiate alone.
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There's a whole team of people and by a whole team, maybe it's not a big team, but it's
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definitely more than a solo activity.
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Your department chair is integrally involved in your hire even if you are coming into a
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division setting or maybe you're going into a center.
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Like there is somebody who cares beyond just your immediate supervisor.
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And so they at a minimum are negotiating as two people, not as just one person.
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And so not only do you want to give yourself enough time, but you actually want to get
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a friend who can help you as you move forward.
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Okay, so give yourself enough time and get a friend that's number one.
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The second thing is you want to be very clear about how you want to split your time.
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And as I say that, I recognize that that can give people a ton of anxiety.
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It's like, oh no, I just can't figure it out.
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This is too much.
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But you really do need to clarify which of the tripartite arms of being in academic medicine
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are you going to take as the lead?
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And so everybody says, I want to be a great clinician.
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I want to be a great researcher.
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I want to be a great educator.
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And yes, after many years of honing your skills over and over again and creating time for
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rest and reflection and deliberate practice, you're going to be able to do that.
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But right now, you really do want to think about which one is going to be the leader?
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Which of these tripartite missions am I going to lead with?
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Am I going to lead as a clinician?
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Am I going to lead with being a researcher?
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Am I going to lead with being an educator?
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And that's really important to decide up front.
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Now, here's the thing.
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There's a secret.
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It does cause a lot of anxiety when people are trying to decide because they're like,
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I don't want to lock myself down.
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And I want to assure you that you are not locked down.
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What it does allow you to do is to make a decision and start to move towards the decision.
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Because as you make a decision, then you're able to commit to the decision until such
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a time as you get more information that might lead you to think that, OK, maybe it's time
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to uncommit from this decision.
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And so you want to know how to split your time.
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And I have to say it's very difficult and frustrating when applicants come through and
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they say, well, you know, I'm not sure what I want to do.
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And it's difficult because you can't tell somebody what to do.
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And no, people try all the time.
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But in a faculty career, the faculty member is really building their own career.
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And so for that reason, they should be clear about how they want to split their time.
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And even if they're not clear yet, starting somewhere and then using that to work backwards
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ultimately.
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OK.
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So number two is to think about how you want to split your time because you want to make
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sure that you have a clear understanding of how you're going to be judged at your institution.
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OK.
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So you want to understand what the institution values.
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So I will tell you that every institution values things differently.
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Your institution may be different from mine.
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Well, what the institution is interested, as far as your clinical leadership, in general
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may fall into broad categories of patient care, safe and effective and efficient patient
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care, but also safe and, well, actually effective closing of the charts, right, so that people
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can get paid.
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And so but, you know, one of the ways that you can really understand what the institution
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values is to go and find their promotion and tenure documents.
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And sometimes people will say, well, I'm a clinician.
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As long as I continue doing great work as a clinician, oh, I should be fine.
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But in reality, at any academic medical center, one component of your promotion is your scholarship.
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It is such an important part of your package, no matter where you are, no matter where you
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sit in the medical school environment.
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So you want to understand what your institution values.
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When you go look at that document and they say, we want you to be a national leader so
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that all referrals for this disease tend to come to you, right, if that is what your institution
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values, then you want to know, do I have the right list of resources?
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And so that's what leads me to number four.
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For every component that is important to you and you find that the institution values,
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you want to make sure you have a list of resources.
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Okay, let's stop here and unpack that for just a little bit.
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For example, you want to excel as a clinician while you need access to seeing a large volume
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of patients as efficiently as possible.
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You want opportunity to see a large volume of patients as efficiently and as safely as
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possible.
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Okay, what does it take to do that?
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Well, is there an MA who needs to be in clinic?
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Do you need a PA?
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Do you need an MP?
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Did you inherit somebody's clinic and now you need help managing that clinic?
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Because the kind of challenge it is to run a clinic as someone who's brand new is different
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from the challenge of someone who's been running the same clinic for a couple of years.
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And so if somebody's left open a space and you are the clinician stepping into that space,
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recognize that it's going to feel overwhelming to have all those patients come upon you at
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the same time.
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But what resources do you need to succeed in the clinical space?
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Do you need a scribe?
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Do you need a very efficient note dictation software?
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What are the things you need for every component?
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I want to be a great clinician.
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Okay, what resource do I need to do that?
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And then you're like, oh, well, I want to be a scientist.
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And it's like, hmm, how can I minimize some of this clinical time and instead expand my
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time in this area of research?
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And that's why for each component you want to develop a list of resources.
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In the clinic, again, we said you'll have an MA, perhaps you'll have a PA, perhaps the
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schedule will be tailored exactly to your needs for a clinician scientist, for a researcher.
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You want to make sure you have protected time so that you can actually do this research
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and get in the money to be able to fund the team to do the research.
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You want to make sure that you actually have access to educational materials since this
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is not something you've done before as part of your regular career.
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So you want to know what's their list of resources for me as a clinician, as a researcher, but
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what about as an educator?
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Perhaps somebody's called you to be an associate program director role.
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And the question is, well, who is paying for this role?
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Who is going to allow me to do this work and to also do the other work that is necessary?
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So you want to make sure that you have the time to do this work.
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And if you don't, that's important to bring up because what you're saying is, hey, you
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want me to do this, but this is what it takes to do this.
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And I need to be resourced so I can do this.
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And if for whatever reason people can't resource you to do it, you can decide to leave, or
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you can say, well, if there are not going to be enough resources, how do we narrow down
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the scope for that work?
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Right?
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So you want to make sure that you develop a list of resources, whether it's your clinician
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side, your educator side, or your research side that's going to lead in your promotion
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and tenure process.
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You actually want to go and find out what things are needed.
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So at the institution, you're going to go around and you're going to poll other investigators
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to find out, hey, you're in this role.
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What do you need?
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You're a researcher in this role.
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What did you ask for?
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What did you wish you had asked for?
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You want to ask all those questions as much as possible so that you can develop a well-informed
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list of resources that you're going to need so that you know that you have everything
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you need in your moving forward and asking questions that help you clarify how these
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resources can help you move forward.
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OK.
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The one thing people talk about first, which I like to put pretty much at the end, is really
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to think about the salary.
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OK.
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You want to make sure that you're thinking about salary.
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And salary, again, is important, but it's not the most important thing.
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But with the grant to salary negotiation, I actually did do a podcast episode about
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this about three weeks ago about how to negotiate salary.
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And if you go to our website, clinicianresearcherpodcast.com, you can access the episode.
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Yes, but I talk about how to negotiate your salary.
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So you definitely want to do this objectively.
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You want to make sure that this is not about how you feel about yourself or how much you
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think or do not think you're worth.
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It really is about what are the salary benchmarks for someone like me starting this position.
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And that's what you're going to ask for, because there's objective data.
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Again, the AAMC compensation report that comes out every year.
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There are other resources as well.
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So you want to make sure you have access to hard data.
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And if you don't have access to hard data, that's where you poll other investigators
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to see what's needed.
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You're like, hey, I have this great opportunity.
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What do you think about it?
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What did you do with this opportunity?
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What would you have done differently?
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And so those are the things you want to do.
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And to be honest, all of this is a lot of work, but so important, so important so that
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you are going to the table prepared to negotiate for yourself.
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And it's a really, really, really awesome thing to be able to do when you have the right
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resources and the tools to be able to do that.
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So it's important, really, I think, wrapping up to be prepared to take time to think.
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The people who do the best negotiations and succeed wonderfully as faculty are those who
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take time to think, to think about what they really want to do, to think about what resources
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are available to them, and to think about the offer when it is presented so that you're
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not knee-jerking a response just to make somebody happy.
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You want to make sure that you prepare to take time to think so that you can make the
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right decision and the informed decision.
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Okay?
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That's all I have for today.
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I would say if somebody you know is looking for a coach to guide them through their first
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negotiation as an academic, please reach out to me.
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Have them reach out to me.
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And they can reach out to me on Facebook, Instagram, also on LinkedIn as well.
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And please definitely take time to think about your career because if you do not prioritize
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it, nobody else will.
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All right.
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It's been a pleasure talking with you today.
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Someone's got to have this episode.
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Please share it with them.
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If this episode resonated with you in any way, we'd love to hear about it.
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Leave a voicemail on our podcast website, clinicianresearcherpodcast.com.
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And I look forward to seeing you again the next time.
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Thanks for listening to this episode of the Clinician Researcher Podcast where academic
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clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program, whether or not they
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have a mentor.
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If you found the information in this episode to be helpful, don't keep it all to yourself.
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Someone else needs to hear it.
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So take a minute right now and share it.
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As you share this episode, you become part of our mission to help launch a new generation
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of clinician researchers who make transformative discoveries that change the way we do healthcare.