1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,860 Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills 2 00:00:05,860 --> 00:00:11,260 to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor. 3 00:00:11,260 --> 00:00:17,340 As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients. 4 00:00:17,340 --> 00:00:22,380 When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find 5 00:00:22,380 --> 00:00:27,780 that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research 6 00:00:27,780 --> 00:00:29,200 program. 7 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:35,480 Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit. 8 00:00:35,480 --> 00:00:40,580 However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs. 9 00:00:40,580 --> 00:00:46,200 For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians 10 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:51,800 the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor. 11 00:00:51,800 --> 00:01:01,040 Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene. 12 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:04,880 Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast. 13 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:11,520 I'm your host, Toyosi Onwuemene, and so excited to be talking with you today because today 14 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:13,520 I am talking about yes. 15 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:18,640 I know I talked about yes yesterday, and the day before I talk about no, and the day before 16 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:24,920 not it was no, but I do want to kind of come back full circle and talk about why. 17 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:27,680 Actually, I talked about why you should say yes yesterday. 18 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:33,840 So today I'm talking about how to say yes. 19 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:41,880 And I'm reminded, earlier today I was at a panel discussion, and this was at a panel 20 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:47,240 discussion for our faculty members who are relatively new at my institution, and they're 21 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:48,240 doing this program. 22 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:49,240 It's a career development program. 23 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:53,520 It's called Faculty Development Academy, and it really is about developing yourself as 24 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:54,840 a faculty member. 25 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:59,520 And so I went through the program a couple of years ago, so I sat on the panel, and people 26 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:03,560 ask questions, you answer, you've been through the program before, so it looks like you're 27 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:04,560 the expert. 28 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:07,280 But it was fun on the panel. 29 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:13,720 And so after the panel, I had an opportunity to speak with someone who was in the audience. 30 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:16,880 And one of the things she shared was so profound to me. 31 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:18,360 I had to come share it with you. 32 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:23,480 She said, pursue your dream. 33 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:24,960 Who tells you that in medicine? 34 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:25,960 Really? 35 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:28,280 Like in academic medicine, like, oh, you should chase your dreams. 36 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:33,200 But she really did mean it, and I totally resonated in that moment, because what she 37 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:38,280 was alluding to is the fact that many times people tell you this is what you should do. 38 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:40,440 This is what is going to be funded. 39 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:42,840 This is what's popular right now. 40 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:46,420 Don't do that other thing that just seems like not a great idea. 41 00:02:46,420 --> 00:02:48,300 Do this thing. 42 00:02:48,300 --> 00:02:54,000 People have good intentions, and yes, the thing we love, the thing that no one has yet 43 00:02:54,000 --> 00:03:00,120 blazed a trail in, if we should choose to go down that path, it will be hard, and it 44 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:05,640 will be challenging, and it will be so exhilarating all at the same time. 45 00:03:05,640 --> 00:03:10,040 And what people are missing in the advice they're giving you is the exhilaration that 46 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:15,960 comes from pursuing something that is so meaningful to you, even when it's hard. 47 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:20,640 And I will tell you that even when you choose the easy path, there will still be hardness. 48 00:03:20,640 --> 00:03:23,400 It will still be challenging. 49 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:26,520 And which would you choose? 50 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:33,400 The easy path that's not so easy, or the hard path that's easier because you love it. 51 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:37,180 And that's why we're talking about yesterday. 52 00:03:37,180 --> 00:03:38,180 That's why we're talking about yesterday. 53 00:03:38,180 --> 00:03:41,240 And I know yesterday I talked about yes and why you should say yes. 54 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:44,120 Today I'm talking about how you should say yes. 55 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:46,120 And yes is such a powerful word. 56 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:47,120 It's so powerful. 57 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:51,000 And I need to remind you in case you didn't listen to the episodes yesterday or the day 58 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:54,120 before, the day before that, I'm talking about no and yes. 59 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:56,000 And they are two sides of the same coin. 60 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:58,600 And every day you say yes, you say no. 61 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:00,720 And every day you say no, you say yes. 62 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:04,400 Because ultimately, you're a finite being. 63 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:10,920 And at some point, the day ends and you have to start the next day over. 64 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:15,120 And so the reality is that when you say yes to an appointment at 4 p.m., you're saying 65 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:18,160 no to something else you could be doing at 4 p.m. 66 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:20,600 It's opportunity cost. 67 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:25,280 And so even though we're talking about yesterday, we really are talking about no because you 68 00:04:25,280 --> 00:04:26,960 can't talk about yes without no. 69 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:29,760 But today I'm really focused on yes. 70 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:31,080 The no is in the background now. 71 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:33,280 Yes is what's in the four. 72 00:04:33,280 --> 00:04:37,320 And I want to talk to you about five ways to say yes. 73 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:39,560 Five ways to say yes. 74 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:46,520 And the first thing I want to say is you should say yes only when you mean it. 75 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:49,800 Say yes only when you mean it. 76 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:51,360 And here's the challenge. 77 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:53,760 Well, it almost goes without saying. 78 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:56,280 Why would you say yes if you don't mean it? 79 00:04:56,280 --> 00:05:05,760 But the thing is, if you're an academic physician, if you are a clinician, scientist, or wannabe, 80 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:15,680 whatever your career, whatever you're doing as a physician, the foundation of you is to 81 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:18,560 say yes even when you don't mean it. 82 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:22,720 And part of that is the kind of people we are as physicians, right? 83 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:25,600 The kind of person you are as a physician. 84 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:27,160 But a lot of it, too, is our training. 85 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:30,760 Like, what do you mean you're not going to say yes? 86 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:31,760 You're here to say yes. 87 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:36,840 What do you mean I don't feel like taking a call today? 88 00:05:36,840 --> 00:05:37,840 You're on the schedule. 89 00:05:37,840 --> 00:05:39,840 What do you mean I don't feel like calling? 90 00:05:39,840 --> 00:05:40,840 What do you mean? 91 00:05:40,840 --> 00:05:44,080 What do you mean I don't feel like working? 92 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:45,080 What? 93 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:49,160 And one of the challenges, actually, there's actually a term for it. 94 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:51,840 Physicians usually have the problem of presenteeism. 95 00:05:51,840 --> 00:05:53,320 I think that's the way you say it. 96 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:56,640 It's like, I'm going to be here no matter what. 97 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:58,240 I may be choking. 98 00:05:58,240 --> 00:05:59,640 I may be really sick. 99 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:03,440 But I'm coming in to work because this is what I do. 100 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:10,880 And so what I'm saying is that as a physician, you tend to say yes when you don't mean it 101 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:11,880 because you feel obligated. 102 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:13,920 You're like, I got to do this thing. 103 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:16,960 Therefore, I'm going to do it. 104 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:18,760 What if? 105 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:19,760 What if? 106 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:22,040 This is just a thought experiment. 107 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:25,920 What if you only said yes when you actually mean yes? 108 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:30,800 What would that look like? 109 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:36,280 And so sometimes what that looks like is not saying anything. 110 00:06:36,280 --> 00:06:38,880 And asking yourself, is this a real yes? 111 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:42,560 The yes I'm about to say, is it a real yes I want to do this? 112 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:46,640 Or is it a people pleasing I don't want you to be mad at me? 113 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:47,640 Yes. 114 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:50,200 Because those two are pretty different. 115 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:54,080 And at the end of the day, you might end up at the same decision. 116 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:56,420 You might. 117 00:06:56,420 --> 00:07:00,360 You might ultimately say yes to something you thought you might say no to initially. 118 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:05,120 Or what you want to do is make sure the yes comes from inside. 119 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:07,400 So don't say yes until you mean yes. 120 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:11,640 And if you don't mean yes, don't say yes. 121 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:13,360 Don't say yes. 122 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:15,800 Say yes only when you mean it. 123 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:21,600 And it's so important because as physicians who are also leading research programs, gosh, 124 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:22,600 we've got a lot on the plate. 125 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:24,200 We've got a lot on our schedule. 126 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:25,200 We're overburdened. 127 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:32,360 There's too much for us to do relative to the time in the day. 128 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:35,880 And that's why we say yes only when we mean it. 129 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:40,040 Because in reality, there's going to be a lot of nos going on in our minds. 130 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:43,400 Things are falling where we're not saying yes to them. 131 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:47,400 But we say yes only when we mean it. 132 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:50,400 Because we want to be consistent. 133 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:52,880 Inside as we are outside. 134 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:55,640 We are aligned inside as we are outside. 135 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:59,800 It allows us to live in harmony with ourselves. 136 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:06,560 So I am inviting you this week to say yes only when you mean it. 137 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:11,840 And if for whatever reason you struggle. 138 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:18,640 If like me, you have this thing called a people pleasing challenge where you say yes because 139 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:20,880 you don't want to say no. 140 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:23,720 You don't want to disappoint them. 141 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:27,000 Yep, they totally get it. 142 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:28,000 Absolutely. 143 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:29,000 Absolutely. 144 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:35,160 Saying yes is the easier way to go in the moment. 145 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:36,160 In the long term. 146 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:39,400 It hurts you and it hurts them as well. 147 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:43,920 So if you're a people pleasing person and you need to get together with me and we can 148 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:50,480 talk through how you can improve and saying yes when you mean it. 149 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:54,240 And you want to work with a coach, please come find me. 150 00:08:54,240 --> 00:09:00,760 I would love to help you think about how to say yes to the things that you only want to 151 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:02,040 say yes to. 152 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:08,920 How to pursue the dream of your career by saying yes only when you mean it. 153 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:11,560 Now I hear some people saying, well, but this is my obligation. 154 00:09:11,560 --> 00:09:12,560 I'm on the schedule. 155 00:09:12,560 --> 00:09:18,040 Okay, what if I feel like saying no, I don't want to show up. 156 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:23,560 So when I say say yes only when you mean it, there are times when we have to get to a place 157 00:09:23,560 --> 00:09:29,160 in our lives where we say this is my obligation and I'm going to say yes to it. 158 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:33,920 And so saying yes is not necessarily about satisfying a feeling. 159 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:39,240 It's about aligning with your deeper values and convictions because the truth is sometimes 160 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:46,440 you do have an obligation and then you say, I'm actually negotiating out of this obligation. 161 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:51,640 And so what we have challenges with as physicians is that the moment we've said yes, we think 162 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:52,920 it's unsayable. 163 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:55,840 We think we can't say no. 164 00:09:55,840 --> 00:10:00,580 Sometimes we do need to say no because we're kind of acting out a no even though we've 165 00:10:00,580 --> 00:10:02,400 said a yes. 166 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:07,600 And so yeah, even if it's an obligation, is it what you want to do? 167 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:13,560 And if it's not, how can you negotiate out of it? 168 00:10:13,560 --> 00:10:15,840 Discipline experiment, don't get too excited. 169 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:20,480 And if you don't want to do it, why do you do it? 170 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:28,680 And if you do it and really say yes, say yes only when you mean it. 171 00:10:28,680 --> 00:10:32,240 Number two is to say yes with conviction. 172 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:35,180 Say yes, right? 173 00:10:35,180 --> 00:10:40,920 Say yes, say yeah, of course. 174 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:43,340 Say yes with conviction. 175 00:10:43,340 --> 00:10:50,760 And if you cannot say yes with conviction, number three is to say why? 176 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:53,080 Why is your yes a weak yes? 177 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:58,560 What does that say about how you're feeling inside? 178 00:10:58,560 --> 00:11:02,480 So I want to invite you to say yes with conviction. 179 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:09,840 And if you cannot, if you cannot say yes, ask yourself why you are having a hard time 180 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:13,260 saying yes with conviction. 181 00:11:13,260 --> 00:11:16,800 Because the only kind of yes that makes sense is a yes with conviction. 182 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:18,160 You know why? 183 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:22,040 Because a yes with conviction says, I've actually really thought about this. 184 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:27,080 You know, many of the yeses we say are yeses of thoughtlessness. 185 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:29,520 I didn't even think about what my schedule is tomorrow. 186 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:32,920 I just said yes so she could stop asking me, right? 187 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:34,760 It's not a conviction yes. 188 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:37,080 A conviction yes is I thought about it. 189 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:38,960 I thought about the challenges. 190 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:40,960 I thought about the benefits. 191 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:42,280 And I still say yes. 192 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:44,880 Mmm, that's such a powerful yes. 193 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:46,780 But it's an informed yes. 194 00:11:46,780 --> 00:11:47,780 It's an informed yes. 195 00:11:47,780 --> 00:11:50,360 So when you say yes, you're not like, uh, yes. 196 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:53,080 You're like, oh no, yes. 197 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:54,080 I choose. 198 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:55,080 I say yes. 199 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:56,320 I'm not trying to make you happy. 200 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:59,160 I've made my decision yes. 201 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:01,320 Say yes with conviction. 202 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:05,680 Do the work it takes to be able to say yes with conviction. 203 00:12:05,680 --> 00:12:11,080 And if for whatever reason you are in a place where you cannot say yes with conviction, 204 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:12,080 ask why. 205 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:13,620 Do the work. 206 00:12:13,620 --> 00:12:15,080 Do the work. 207 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:22,480 And honestly, for many of us in medicine, we do not do the work of asking, why is this 208 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:24,280 a weak yes for me? 209 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:26,080 This person is the most amazing. 210 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:27,920 Why is it a weak yes? 211 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:32,160 And if we would do the work, we would uncover some deep dark secrets that we need to bring 212 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:36,880 out and know for ourselves so that we can make different decisions. 213 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:40,960 And as physicians, we struggle to do that because our training, part of it is that our 214 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:47,600 training prevents us from being in touch with the real us, the real what we want to do. 215 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:52,800 And so if for whatever reason you can't say yes with conviction, it is a sign. 216 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:56,800 And you should sit with it and say, why? 217 00:12:56,800 --> 00:13:01,480 Why am I struggling to say yes with conviction? 218 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:05,680 Okay. 219 00:13:05,680 --> 00:13:09,600 Number four is again, say yes with conviction. 220 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:10,600 I don't know. 221 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:11,600 It's in my notes. 222 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:12,600 I wrote it twice. 223 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:15,200 I must really, really feel strongly about it. 224 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:16,200 Okay. 225 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:21,340 So number four, what else can I say about saying yes with conviction? 226 00:13:21,340 --> 00:13:25,640 In life, there are very, very, very few things you can do well at one time. 227 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:30,200 I know that we kind of are in a multitasking society and so we're always multitasking. 228 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:33,880 And what we really do know is that it's very hard to multitask well. 229 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:38,360 And there's some tasks that perhaps you can multitask at, perhaps because they involve 230 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:44,960 different parts of the brain, but it's very difficult to do two things at the same time 231 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:47,400 to do it well. 232 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:54,720 And one of the things that's important is that when we are able to say yes with conviction, 233 00:13:54,720 --> 00:14:00,000 it allows us to focus our energy because we've said no to other things. 234 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:06,280 And so when I say, say yes with conviction, I want you to think about the few things you 235 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:14,040 can really give yourself to well and all the other things that can fall away. 236 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:15,440 What is that? 237 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:20,200 Because what's happening when we don't say yes with conviction, there are so many things 238 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:22,560 in our list and things are slipping off. 239 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:27,440 It's like a desk that's so full of clutter and it's just you can't even tell when things 240 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:28,440 are falling off. 241 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:31,560 They're just falling off all around you. 242 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:35,680 Saying yes with conviction allows you to say, these are the things I've said yes to. 243 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:39,000 I now say no to all the other things. 244 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:44,800 Anything that comes to try to distract me from these things that I've said yes to, I'm 245 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:46,640 not going to let that happen. 246 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:50,200 And so in a sense, it's aligning with your yes. 247 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:55,720 You said yes with conviction as in you agreed and then aligning your life with the conviction 248 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:56,760 you have made. 249 00:14:56,760 --> 00:15:01,640 If you say, I'm a clinician scientist, then you align your life with what it means to 250 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:02,920 be a clinician scientist. 251 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:07,400 And it means you can't behave like someone who's not a clinician scientist because it 252 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:09,160 means you have different priorities. 253 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:15,980 And so if you say yes to your life as a clinician scientist, as a researcher, then what you're 254 00:15:15,980 --> 00:15:21,280 doing is saying no to a lot of other things. 255 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:22,800 So are you saying yes with a conviction? 256 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:27,800 Are you actually living the life that you profess to want? 257 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:34,640 Are you spending time thinking about your future and how your research is moving forward? 258 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:39,640 Are you spending time thinking about your writing and how you are communicating your 259 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:40,640 science? 260 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:44,680 Are you spending time thinking about your grant strategy and what grants you're submitting 261 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:46,400 and when? 262 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:49,080 Say yes to the path you've chosen. 263 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:59,200 And if you struggle to live the life that's consistent with the path you've chosen, think 264 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:01,200 about why that is. 265 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:02,200 Okay. 266 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:07,120 Number five is to say yes to the right thing. 267 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:09,000 What is the right thing? 268 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:10,000 Is it right? 269 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:14,160 Is it wrong? 270 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:16,200 What is the right thing? 271 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:23,280 The right thing is to say yes to the truth that's buried sweetly deep inside you. 272 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:25,280 It is so, so, so, so deep. 273 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:30,600 And why do I know that the truth is deep inside you? 274 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:35,720 Because the phenotype of a physician, I'll tell you the story that helps me understand 275 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:38,880 the phenotype of a physician in the way that I'm talking about it. 276 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:43,080 You know when you were in medical school and you went through all these rotations and one 277 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:48,400 day you did your Peds rotation and you were such a great and friendly person, like you 278 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:49,840 know playing with all the kids. 279 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:51,840 You were so awesome. 280 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:54,780 And then you crossed over one day into the next day. 281 00:16:54,780 --> 00:16:59,420 You became a surgeon and all of a sudden you were like gruff and you only stay in the room 282 00:16:59,420 --> 00:17:02,420 for two seconds. 283 00:17:02,420 --> 00:17:04,640 Yelling people on the phone. 284 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:09,520 And then you're done with that and you move to psychiatry and you are calm and very, very 285 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:15,200 cool and collected and seeing all the right things. 286 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:19,040 Oh my goodness. 287 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:20,240 That is our training. 288 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:25,520 Our training is to immediately acclimatize. 289 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:27,600 Is that the right word? 290 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:33,280 Is to immediately take on your environment, the culture of your environment and just make 291 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:34,280 it work. 292 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:37,600 Yeah, you don't even really like children, but as long as you're on pediatrics you're 293 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:38,840 going to love them. 294 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:41,360 And you're like, yes, I love children. 295 00:17:41,360 --> 00:17:42,360 And we're physicians. 296 00:17:42,360 --> 00:17:44,120 We're great at that. 297 00:17:44,120 --> 00:17:48,360 And one of the ways you understand that you are struggling, still struggling because you 298 00:17:48,360 --> 00:17:49,920 need to break out of that. 299 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:52,040 Like what do you actually really like? 300 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:55,120 And if you're like, I like many things, that's the sign. 301 00:17:55,120 --> 00:17:57,040 Oh yeah, you can like many things. 302 00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:00,240 I'm not saying you can't like many things. 303 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:03,600 But what is the thing that makes you tick? 304 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:06,080 What is the thing that rocks your world? 305 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:09,600 Yes, in the work you do. 306 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:11,000 What is it? 307 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:19,720 What is that one thing that you do where time melts away, where every worry and every concern 308 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:22,200 is gone because you're just in the zone. 309 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:24,200 Oh, there's a term for that. 310 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,580 Now I don't remember what that is. 311 00:18:26,580 --> 00:18:29,400 What is that peak moment for you? 312 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:31,480 Oh, it's flow. 313 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:32,480 That's the term. 314 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:33,480 It's called flow. 315 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:39,040 What is that thing in your work that when you're in it, you really are in a state of 316 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:40,040 flow? 317 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:41,040 What is it? 318 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:44,080 And if you can't answer that question, it's okay. 319 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:47,880 But there is something, it's inside you. 320 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:51,960 And to say yes to the right thing is to say yes to that voice that's calling out inside 321 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:53,560 you for more. 322 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:58,720 It's calling inside you, calling out inside you for something greater than what you're 323 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:01,520 doing right now. 324 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:05,640 And many times we're so disconnected from what we love because we've been practicing 325 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:07,680 for 10 years maybe. 326 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:12,040 If you did a fellowship or if you did surgery, you've been practicing for a long time how 327 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:14,120 to be whatever they need you to be right now. 328 00:19:14,120 --> 00:19:16,120 What does this patient need me to be? 329 00:19:16,120 --> 00:19:17,120 Great. 330 00:19:17,120 --> 00:19:18,200 What does the nurse need me to be right now? 331 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:19,200 Do it. 332 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:20,720 What does my attending need me to be right now? 333 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:21,720 I will do it. 334 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:25,060 You've gotten so good at that. 335 00:19:25,060 --> 00:19:29,120 And so what you're going to need to practice, and if you need a coach to help you practice, 336 00:19:29,120 --> 00:19:37,280 I'm happy to come help you practice, but what you need to do is to practice connecting, 337 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:43,160 connecting back to the spark that's inside you that is yearning to come out and do something 338 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:46,440 great and make a contribution that is so awesome. 339 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:50,960 And I want to invite you not to accept anything short. 340 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:55,120 Don't accept anything less than who you are. 341 00:19:55,120 --> 00:20:00,440 Don't accept anything less than passion in your career and satisfaction. 342 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:02,280 Do not accept anything less. 343 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:05,920 Yes, you look around and so many people are burned out and they're complaining and they're 344 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:06,920 whining. 345 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:09,120 It doesn't have to be your default. 346 00:20:09,120 --> 00:20:11,720 Yeah, it's the default culture. 347 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:13,960 It doesn't have to be yours. 348 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:15,960 What do you want? 349 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:18,360 What is this career thing going to do for you? 350 00:20:18,360 --> 00:20:19,520 It is here to serve you. 351 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:22,440 Your career is here to serve you. 352 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:24,440 It's not you serving the career. 353 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:25,960 It's the career serving you. 354 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:31,480 And if you aren't in a place in your career where you don't feel like your career is serving 355 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:36,680 you, then you should come to that place. 356 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:40,520 And I invite you to think about how do you get there? 357 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:44,640 How do you get to the place where you feel like, you know what, this career serves me 358 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,720 rather than me being a slave to this career? 359 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:53,520 And part of it is in the truth of the thing that just makes you tick, the thing that keeps 360 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:55,600 you in flow. 361 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:57,120 And there is that. 362 00:20:57,120 --> 00:20:58,120 It's buried. 363 00:20:58,120 --> 00:20:59,120 It's deep. 364 00:20:59,120 --> 00:21:00,120 It's there. 365 00:21:00,120 --> 00:21:01,120 It's not another institution actually. 366 00:21:01,120 --> 00:21:03,880 And I think for many of us, we're like on the verge of leaving. 367 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:06,480 We're like, no, I can't do this anymore. 368 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:08,440 The answer is not elsewhere. 369 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:12,120 The answer is inside. 370 00:21:12,120 --> 00:21:13,960 Sometimes you need help to pull it out. 371 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:15,400 You don't have to have help to pull it out. 372 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:16,400 You can do that. 373 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:17,400 You can figure it out. 374 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:18,400 I invite you. 375 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:19,400 I invite you to do that. 376 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:26,360 And I invite you if you want to have a conversation about what could it look like to build a career 377 00:21:26,360 --> 00:21:34,360 that you love as a clinician scientist and have joy instead of burdensome suffering or 378 00:21:34,360 --> 00:21:39,080 pain or whatever it is that comes with a career that everybody's like, this is just the way 379 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:40,080 it is. 380 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:45,880 What would it take for you to create something different, something you actually want to 381 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:46,880 create? 382 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:50,080 Yes, I invite you to think about that this week. 383 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:51,080 All right. 384 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:54,000 I will tell you I'm done talking about yes and no. 385 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:55,240 But today I said yes. 386 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:56,520 Say it only when you mean it. 387 00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:58,120 Number two, say yes with conviction. 388 00:21:58,120 --> 00:22:01,240 Number three, if you can't say yes, ask yourself why. 389 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:02,920 Number four, say yes with conviction. 390 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:04,680 Oh, I said it twice. 391 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:07,840 And then number five, say yes to the right thing. 392 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,800 It has been a pleasure talking with you today. 393 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:14,680 Please share this podcast episode with someone else because they need to hear it. 394 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:15,680 All right. 395 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:26,600 I'll talk to you again the next time. 396 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:31,960 Thanks for listening to this episode of the Clinician Researcher Podcast, where academic 397 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:37,240 clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program, whether or not they 398 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:38,760 have a mentor. 399 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:44,880 If you found the information in this episode to be helpful, don't keep it all to yourself. 400 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:46,600 Someone else needs to hear it. 401 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:50,660 So take a minute right now and share it. 402 00:22:50,660 --> 00:22:56,120 As you share this episode, you become part of our mission to help launch a new generation 403 00:22:56,120 --> 00:23:16,160 of clinician researchers who make transformative discoveries that change the way we do healthcare.