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Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills

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to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.

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As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients.

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When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find

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that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research

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program.

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Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit.

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However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs.

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For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians

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the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.

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Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene.

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Welcome to today's episode of the Clinician Researcher podcast.

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I am excited to be with you today.

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I'm your host Toyosi Onwuemene, and today I'm talking about the fact that it's never too

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late to build a research program.

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It's just never too late.

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And I am excited to announce that for everyone, everyone who's building a research program,

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no matter how late a start you're getting, Academics Negotiate is the program for you.

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And I encourage you to check it out on our website, clinicianresearcherpodcast.com.

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Check out when we're enrolling the next cohort of Academics Negotiate so that you can be

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a part of that cohort and you can get help negotiating your career so that you can build

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the research program that has maximum impact and allows you to thrive as a clinician researcher.

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So I invite you to check it out and sign up for our wait list.

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Okay, today I am talking about building a research program.

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It's never too late.

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It's just never too late.

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So when I came to the game as far as research is concerned, people thought it was too late

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for me.

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And when was I coming?

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I was an early career faculty.

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I was just starting my first job.

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And I was interviewing and saying I wanted to have a research career.

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And the questions I was being asked, at least by the people who took me seriously, like

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most people were like, oh, you don't, you're a clinician.

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That's all you want to do.

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Go do research on the side if you want to.

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But when I first got to a program that actually was like, okay, we take that seriously.

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We have clinician researchers here.

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Tell me about your qualifications.

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Tell me how many grants you submitted.

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Actually, they didn't ask me how many grants I'd submitted.

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They asked me how many grants I had.

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And I was like, well, I don't have any.

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Am I supposed to have them?

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Oh, oh, too late for you.

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Okay, okay.

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Tell us about how many publications you've had.

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I was like, well, I have four.

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And I was feeling really good about my four.

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And I was like, you don't even really have many publications.

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But what?

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What?

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And so there was just this sense that I was late.

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That if I had used my fellowship time wisely, I would have had more publications by now.

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I would have had some grant funding.

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And the fact that I'd missed out meant that I couldn't really come in in a research position.

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That I could come in a clinical position and then good luck with making the research happen.

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And this happens to so many of us where we have a heavy clinical focus during our fellowship

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time and we miss opportunities to create research products.

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But it doesn't mean it's too late for us.

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It just means we need to think strategically and we need to think differently.

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Okay.

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So I'm going to talk to you today about how to build a research program starting where

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you are.

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And I want to encourage you that I am talking to you.

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You may be like, well, but I've been in clinical medicine for 25 years.

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What do you mean?

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It's not too late.

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All I have ever done is clinical.

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It doesn't matter.

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If you have a desire to build a research program, then this message is for you.

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Because where you are is the most important place that you can start.

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Not yesterday, not tomorrow, but right now, today, where you are.

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I'm going to share with you seven insights about how to build a research program from

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exactly where you are.

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The first thing you need to do is to own your strengths.

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Yes, you have not done research or research training for the last maybe 10 years of your

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career or maybe you are like me at the beginning of your academic faculty experience and you

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didn't have the receipts that people were expecting you to have from your fellowship.

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What do you have?

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Don't start with what you don't have.

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Start with what you do have.

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What do you have?

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If you are a beginning academic, a beginning faculty member, you have your clinical expertise.

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And although that is not research expertise, please do not be confused.

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Clinical expertise is not research expertise.

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But you do have clinical expertise.

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And that has value.

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Because if you're going to build a research program starting from where you are, you start

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in the place of your clinical expertise.

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People are going to say, well, but your clinical expertise doesn't get funded.

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Do not buy the lie.

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Do not believe it.

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Because the kind of person who can make that area of clinical expertise get funding is

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you because you understand the area.

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And so your clinical expertise must always be your starting point.

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Perhaps you look around and you're like, well, I'm a hematologist and the only person I see

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around me is a cardiologist.

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I guess I have to do cardiology research.

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Don't do it.

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Do not do it.

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Your strength is your strength is your strength is your strength.

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It's like asking a bird to run a marathon.

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OK, with enough practice and training, any bird can run a marathon.

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But will the bird still be alive at the end of the marathon is an important question.

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And perhaps the bird is alive at the end of the marathon.

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Is that the bird's greatest strength?

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Is that the bird's greatest strength?

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The bird's greatest strength isn't flying.

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And yeah, a bird can run a marathon.

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But really, if you want to see a bird do well, you ask the bird to fly.

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You are like that bird in the area of your clinical expertise.

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If you are going to fly in the place of research, it's got to be in your area of expertise.

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It doesn't matter how many non-experts there are around you.

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Or it doesn't matter that you don't have a mentor specifically in your area of clinical

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expertise.

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The fact that you have clinical expertise is an area of strength and you've got to

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recognize that.

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And don't let anybody take you out of a place where you have strength.

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Think about how you're going to bring them in to facilitate your area of strength.

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But don't give up your area of strength just for the promise of a future that you don't

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have any control over.

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Okay.

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Own the strength that you already have.

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Your clinical expertise is number one.

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Number two is your experience.

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So if you're coming to this, maybe a few years after you started and you've been in clinical

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for a while and you're like, you know what?

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I really do want to do research.

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Own your experience.

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And your experience is really important because not only do you have clinical expertise, you

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now have experience.

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It's one thing to understand theory.

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It's another thing to say, I've treated 7,000 patients with this condition now.

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I have a good understanding of what's going on with these patients.

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And the reason your clinical expertise is, I mean, your clinical experience is helpful

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is because you know where the gaps are.

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The longer you've been doing this, the more the gaps bug you, the more the gaps bother

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you, the more dissatisfied you are with the status quo.

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Because you're like, I have these patients and these medications are not helping them

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and these changes they're making are not helping them.

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It's not advancing them far enough.

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You have the experience to understand where the pain points are in your patient population.

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So you not only have clinical expertise, you have the experience.

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So when it comes to deciding what research questions should be asked of this population,

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you are gold.

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You know, because you understand what really matters.

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And so if you're going to start from where you are, the first thing you have to do is

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to own your strengths.

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Don't let anybody take you outside of the place where you're strong.

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Own what you already have.

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Don't focus on what you don't have because you're going to go get that.

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You're going to go get someone who has it.

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But own what you already have because only when you understand value can you negotiate

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value.

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Okay, own your strengths.

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That's number one.

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Number two is to evaluate your need.

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Okay, you want to get into research.

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What do you need?

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And in order to understand what you need, you got to figure out where you want to go.

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Where do you want to go?

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You know, sometimes when clinicians say I want to do research, they don't understand

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what it takes to do research.

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And so there's this sense that I can just do research on the fly.

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But research is a full-time career.

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Remember, there are people who went to school just to do research.

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And they went to school not for one, two, three, four, but five, six, seven years.

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And some people went for longer periods of training just to do research.

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So research is not a side job that you just do in the middle of the night when you're

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like, oh, I have a couple of extra hours.

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And a lot of clinicians do that.

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But to be honest, it's hard to make impact that way.

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Research is a full-time job.

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So if you are a full-time clinician trying to do a full-time research job, what do you

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need to make it work?

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How do you offload some of your full-time clinician jobs so that you can do some of

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your full-time research job?

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Or how do you leverage the opportunities that other people can give you so that they're

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working on your full-time research job while you're working on your full-time clinician

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job?

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What do you need?

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And some people say, well, I don't want to give up any clinical.

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It's OK.

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You don't have to give it up.

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But who's going to be doing the full-time work for you while you're not giving up your

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full-time job as a clinician?

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Who's going to be doing the full-time research?

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You've got to figure that out.

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Ideally, you want to do at least some of it, even if not all.

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And so how much of your full-time clinical job are you going to give up so that you can

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do some of your full-time research job?

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What do you need?

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You've got to evaluate your need.

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And no one evaluates that need for you.

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You do.

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Because here's the thing.

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Sometimes there's a sense that our institutions need to support us better.

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And sometimes I hear that, and I'm like, well, what does that mean?

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What does support us better mean?

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Because what I need is different from what you need.

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There is not a blanket support system.

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Because the support system that's blanket is for a majority that's probably not you.

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And it's for a weird majority, right?

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Because you take the average of everybody.

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You can't make a good human with the average of all the people.

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Sometimes we're different in different ways.

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Some of us have longer arms.

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Some of us have shorter legs.

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Some of us have a bigger head.

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You can't just take the average of every measurement and say, this is the human I'm creating this

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resource for.

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Because different people need different things.

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And there is no greater person to help you figure out what you need than you.

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And you may struggle with what that need looks like.

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Go figure out what other people are doing so other people who are succeeding as clinician

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researchers, what do they have?

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This is not so you can be covetous or so you can be like, I can't believe they have that.

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But it's just to get a sense of, I like what that person has.

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Because this is how it could meet my need.

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I don't care for what that person has.

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So looking at people is not to compare yourself to them so you can feel bad or feel superior.

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Either one is a problem.

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But it's looking at them, people who are already succeeding in that way, to say, I like what

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that person has because it will help me do X.

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So evaluate your need and get help doing it if you can't do it by yourself.

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Hello?

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You can reach out to me.

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Okay.

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Number three is you've got to push for protective time.

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Okay.

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Research is a full time job.

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Say after me, research is a full time job.

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I do know that there are people who are doing two jobs.

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If you're a clinician researcher, you are doing two jobs.

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You're doing a full time clinical job and a full time research job.

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And you're like, wait a minute, I only have one job.

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You do.

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But you're doing two full time jobs.

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And if you're going to do it well, you're going to either be the one doing the full

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time job or you're going to hire people to do the full time job for you.

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And research is like entrepreneurship.

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00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:19,640
You're building a program and you're leveraging the power of other people to move the program

244
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forward for you.

245
00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:23,480
That is really what you're doing.

246
00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:26,840
You're growing to be the leader of the enterprise.

247
00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:30,840
And over time, you can step away from the enterprise while your people just keep your

248
00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:32,560
work going.

249
00:13:32,560 --> 00:13:39,960
And initially and in the beginning, your time is needed to really move the work forward.

250
00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:44,560
It is possible to start if you already have a team in place to move you forward.

251
00:13:44,560 --> 00:13:45,560
Right.

252
00:13:45,560 --> 00:13:48,800
You already have a team that's going to take you, your work and move it forward.

253
00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:50,360
And then you can start part time.

254
00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:55,680
But if you're really going to start, you've got to really put in a chunk of time into

255
00:13:55,680 --> 00:13:57,120
it.

256
00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:59,760
And I know this is a place at which I feel like I'm losing people.

257
00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:00,800
They're like, well, I can't do it.

258
00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:02,600
I have a full time clinical job.

259
00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:03,760
I can't do it.

260
00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:05,320
Yes, you can.

261
00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,400
The question is not can you or can't you.

262
00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:10,240
The question is how can you?

263
00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:12,680
How can you push for protected time?

264
00:14:12,680 --> 00:14:13,680
What will it take?

265
00:14:13,680 --> 00:14:18,580
OK, you're 100% clinician today or maybe you're 80% clinician today.

266
00:14:18,580 --> 00:14:24,720
How can you shrink some of your clinical footprint so that in your 80% job, you find 20% of that

267
00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:25,920
time for research?

268
00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:27,740
How can you do it?

269
00:14:27,740 --> 00:14:30,360
How can your unruly Monday clinic be tamed?

270
00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:31,680
And you're like, oh, no, no, no.

271
00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:32,800
The Monday clinic is awful.

272
00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:34,280
It can never be tamed.

273
00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:36,760
How can it happen?

274
00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:41,960
What kind of support do you need in the clinic so that it frees you up to do the other full

275
00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:43,160
time job?

276
00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:45,160
What kind of support do you need?

277
00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:47,800
Are you making all your own appointments?

278
00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:52,520
What kind of support can you negotiate for so that you're not spending time calling your

279
00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:53,520
own appointments?

280
00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:56,040
Are you doing your own prior authorizations?

281
00:14:56,040 --> 00:15:00,120
What kind of support can you negotiate for so you're not spending time listening to music

282
00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:02,400
on the phone?

283
00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:08,660
And what you start to do is you start to build just a little seed of protected time for yourself

284
00:15:08,660 --> 00:15:12,280
because the first person who's going to gift you protected time is you.

285
00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:14,240
And then you can go asking for more.

286
00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:17,440
You're like, this is the space of protected time I've created.

287
00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:21,520
This is what that space has created for me in the realm of research.

288
00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:25,240
And then you take that as evidence to go ask for more protected time.

289
00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:27,520
But you've got to push for protected time.

290
00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:32,080
First, nobody is going to push for protected time like you are because the reason you're

291
00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:35,800
pushing is because you're going to make it time that's productive.

292
00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:38,480
And that allows people to really advocate for you.

293
00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:40,520
OK, push for protected time.

294
00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:42,360
Number four, assemble your team.

295
00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:45,460
OK, you're not going to do this by yourself.

296
00:15:45,460 --> 00:15:47,360
Nobody ever does research by themselves.

297
00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:48,360
They don't, right?

298
00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:51,000
We build on the work that other people have done.

299
00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,580
And we have people help us move our work forward.

300
00:15:53,580 --> 00:15:56,760
Anybody who can do research by themselves is not doing research that's going to make

301
00:15:56,760 --> 00:15:57,760
any kind of impact.

302
00:15:57,760 --> 00:15:59,600
I mean, it's just the reality.

303
00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:04,640
If you can do your research in a broom closet by yourself in the corner of your house, it'll

304
00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:06,360
be great research, I'm sure.

305
00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:11,760
But it's probably not going to impact very many people.

306
00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:19,040
OK, so if you are going to really make impact, and I know that the reason you came to research

307
00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:23,440
was not just so you could say I pipetted a couple of samples.

308
00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:25,820
It's because you want to lead a question.

309
00:16:25,820 --> 00:16:29,680
You want to answer a question that's important to you, that's important to your patients.

310
00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:32,240
For that reason, you're going to need a team.

311
00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:33,240
What will it take?

312
00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:34,880
OK, you're like, well, I don't have funding for a team.

313
00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:36,880
I guess I can't do it.

314
00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:37,880
No.

315
00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:40,400
Who do you already have?

316
00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:43,720
If you're a clinician researcher, there are three teams that you need.

317
00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:45,720
Number one, you need your home team.

318
00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:50,520
OK, some of you are lucky and you have a partner that just takes care of the home front.

319
00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:51,520
Good for you.

320
00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:55,160
And some of you are lucky and you don't have a partner that takes care of the home front.

321
00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:56,480
Either way, you're lucky.

322
00:16:56,480 --> 00:17:00,560
You're lucky that you have opportunities to create a team that helps you take care of

323
00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:01,560
the home front.

324
00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:02,800
What are the things you need?

325
00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:04,000
You need your groceries done.

326
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:05,320
You need your shopping done.

327
00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:07,040
You need your laundry done.

328
00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:08,220
What do you need?

329
00:17:08,220 --> 00:17:10,520
And who's the team that's supporting you to do that?

330
00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:12,400
Oh, I see some people rolling their eyes.

331
00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:13,920
I'm like, I don't have a team.

332
00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:17,680
Well, what an opportunity.

333
00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:19,920
What an opportunity for you to create a team.

334
00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:24,840
And no, it doesn't mean you have to pay a concierge person to like run around your house

335
00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:29,440
doing groceries and in your shopping and cleaning up after you.

336
00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:32,840
But if you can't afford that, you should go for it.

337
00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:33,840
But who is your team?

338
00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:35,780
I'll tell you some of my team.

339
00:17:35,780 --> 00:17:38,760
My team is Amazon, Amazon Prime.

340
00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:43,880
My team consists of Walmart, you know, where you pick up your groceries at the door.

341
00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:47,160
My team also consists of Food Lion.

342
00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:48,520
And I have other team members.

343
00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:50,320
I can't remember them all right now.

344
00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:55,160
But who are the people who make life easy for you and it doesn't have to be a discrete

345
00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:56,160
person.

346
00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:59,240
It could just be a company and the services they provide that offload you.

347
00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:02,480
Yes, they're part of your home team.

348
00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:05,920
You want to make sure you assemble them so that they resource you.

349
00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:10,720
And you're not spending time doing things that other people can do for you.

350
00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:13,260
Okay, that's your home team.

351
00:18:13,260 --> 00:18:15,120
And then what about your clinical team?

352
00:18:15,120 --> 00:18:16,120
Okay.

353
00:18:16,120 --> 00:18:22,200
If you are still rooming your own patients, then that's a problem.

354
00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:27,360
It's a problem for you and it's a problem for your institution because I tell you that

355
00:18:27,360 --> 00:18:31,600
the clinicians highest value to the institution is not in rooming patients.

356
00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:32,600
It's just not.

357
00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:37,320
And if you're doing it, it's a sign that you need support.

358
00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:42,800
And anything you're doing in the clinical space, you should be maximized and resourced

359
00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:46,480
to bring in the most clinical revenue for the work you do in the time that you're in

360
00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:47,480
the clinic.

361
00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:51,400
Now, if you're a clinician researcher, clinical revenue may not be the most important to you,

362
00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:55,000
but as long as you're in the clinic seeing patients, well, you better maximize that time.

363
00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,880
Don't just be in the clinic seeing patients and spending all the time on the phone.

364
00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:02,000
You could be doing something else with that time, right?

365
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:07,080
And so how do you maximize the resources you have to create maximum clinical value?

366
00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:09,320
Ask for those resources.

367
00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:10,840
Do you need an MA to support you?

368
00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:12,760
They're like, well, you're only in clinic a half a day a week.

369
00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:17,480
Well, that's half a day of clinical revenue that I want to generate well.

370
00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:19,460
And so yes, I need an MA.

371
00:19:19,460 --> 00:19:24,160
And if I can't see three patients because I'm spending the whole day rooming patients,

372
00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:26,360
that's a problem.

373
00:19:26,360 --> 00:19:27,720
Help people see the value.

374
00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:28,720
They can't see it.

375
00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:30,760
You show them.

376
00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:32,920
Don't say, oh, I'm just in clinic for half a day.

377
00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:33,920
It's not that important.

378
00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:34,920
I'll just know.

379
00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:37,060
Make it count.

380
00:19:37,060 --> 00:19:46,360
And if you can be so efficient as to squeeze five hours worth of patients into three, guess

381
00:19:46,360 --> 00:19:50,560
what you could do with the other two, right?

382
00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:51,720
Assemble your team in the clinic.

383
00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:53,720
Don't schedule your own patients.

384
00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:56,040
Don't schedule your own appointments.

385
00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:57,040
Don't.

386
00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:00,720
And in fact, if you can get an opportunity for somebody else to close your charts for

387
00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:02,720
you to write your note, do it.

388
00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:07,240
Like, oh, I don't want to scribe because it might mean I have to see three more patients.

389
00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:10,280
You need to figure out the math.

390
00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:14,200
How much does it cost for the three patients that you cannot add to the schedule?

391
00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:15,360
How much would it bring?

392
00:20:15,360 --> 00:20:16,680
How much revenue would it bring?

393
00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:21,740
And how much would it cost for a scribe to come and see those and help you see those

394
00:20:21,740 --> 00:20:25,440
three patients and close all your charts on time?

395
00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:29,400
And I know everyone's having different conversations about whether scribes are not scribes.

396
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:30,760
It doesn't have to be a scribe.

397
00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:33,520
What helps you be efficient in the clinic?

398
00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:35,400
Assemble the team.

399
00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:36,400
Negotiate the team.

400
00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:37,400
They may already exist.

401
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:38,580
You're already working with them.

402
00:20:38,580 --> 00:20:40,620
How do you make the most out of them?

403
00:20:40,620 --> 00:20:44,840
Some of you are so disenchanted with your MAs, you don't even allow them to work for

404
00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:45,840
you.

405
00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:46,900
You keep doing their work.

406
00:20:46,900 --> 00:20:51,800
How can they grow and expand if you keep doing the work of your MA?

407
00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:55,520
How can you coach your MA to help you be better?

408
00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:58,440
Or how can you negotiate for a different MA?

409
00:20:58,440 --> 00:20:59,820
Assemble your team.

410
00:20:59,820 --> 00:21:04,600
If you're a scientist, the science part of you needs a team.

411
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:10,240
Please, don't be the person who's proposing the research, who's writing the research

412
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:15,200
grants, who's submitting the research grants and doing the revision, and also be the one

413
00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:20,040
who's generating all the data and analyzing all the data and doing your own biostatistics

414
00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:22,160
and writing your own first draft.

415
00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:24,640
Don't be that person because you know what?

416
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:26,240
You can't do it all well.

417
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:28,760
You're the leader of a research program.

418
00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:30,200
You should have a team to support you.

419
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:34,280
Okay, you may not have the finances yet, but oh my goodness, there are all these medical

420
00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:36,880
students and residents looking for a job.

421
00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:38,800
They're like wanting to succeed in research.

422
00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:42,800
And there you are with all this clinical expertise and experience.

423
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:44,480
Assemble them as part of your team.

424
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:45,480
Give them work to do.

425
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:46,920
You're like, oh, it's too hard.

426
00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:49,400
It's too hard to train them.

427
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:50,400
Okay?

428
00:21:50,400 --> 00:22:00,880
What you're going to do is recognize that anybody who is in the medical space, medical

429
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,680
students, residents, are high achieving people.

430
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:05,920
They can learn things fast.

431
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:08,880
You only have to teach them once or twice and then they can run.

432
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:13,320
As long as you can align what they need with what you need, they need a paper, a first

433
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:14,480
author paper.

434
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:18,480
You're looking to lead a research program, make it worth their while.

435
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:21,520
Give it to them, help them run with it.

436
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:22,520
Assemble your team.

437
00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:24,820
Okay, number five, find seed funding.

438
00:22:24,820 --> 00:22:26,000
You need money for this team.

439
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:27,760
Okay, you can get a volunteer team.

440
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:29,380
Absolutely you can.

441
00:22:29,380 --> 00:22:33,100
If you're leading a clinical research program, you can get the medical student who's available

442
00:22:33,100 --> 00:22:39,040
for maybe summers or you can get the resident who is going to on their own time do research

443
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:40,200
with you.

444
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:43,320
You might get the fellow who says you're the best person ever.

445
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:45,420
I want to work with you.

446
00:22:45,420 --> 00:22:49,720
But you are actually needing people that are paid to do your work.

447
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:50,720
You do.

448
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:54,880
You need the people who are like you give me a paycheck, I do your work.

449
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:56,440
So you got to find seed funding.

450
00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:57,440
You do.

451
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,320
And all you need is a little bit of funding to start.

452
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:01,320
That's it.

453
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:02,320
Just a little bit.

454
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:05,440
And the best place to look for that usually is at your institution.

455
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:08,440
There are all these seed funding things that they're talking about because they want clinicians

456
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:10,120
to be involved in research.

457
00:23:10,120 --> 00:23:11,720
Or maybe it's your society, right?

458
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:17,280
There are all these things that your society is recommending, you know, touting as like

459
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,200
oh please apply for these funds.

460
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:21,960
Just get a little bit.

461
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:25,160
Because the seed, seed is all that's needed.

462
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:28,560
And the moment the seed is planted in the ground, look at what it creates.

463
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:30,720
A forest of trees.

464
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:31,880
Just a couple of seeds.

465
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,360
A forest of trees.

466
00:23:34,360 --> 00:23:36,640
One seed, multiple fruit.

467
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:42,000
Because the moment you get just a little bit of funding, someone has voted with cash to

468
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,960
give you money to do something.

469
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:46,320
Then you're going to expand it.

470
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:47,800
And how are you going to expand it?

471
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:49,400
You're going to water it, you're going to make it grow.

472
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:51,960
You're going to make that seed birth something, right?

473
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:52,960
You're going to produce from it.

474
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,240
And then you're going to say look at what this seed did.

475
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:57,680
And somebody else is going to be like what?

476
00:23:57,680 --> 00:23:58,680
Look at what that seed did.

477
00:23:58,680 --> 00:23:59,960
And if they don't, you're going to show them.

478
00:23:59,960 --> 00:24:02,000
You're going to say hey, look at what this seed did.

479
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,360
You want to put more where this seed went?

480
00:24:04,360 --> 00:24:06,360
You want to supply more?

481
00:24:06,360 --> 00:24:07,360
Right?

482
00:24:07,360 --> 00:24:12,320
You're going to use what you've created through the seed funding that you have to advocate

483
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:13,320
for more.

484
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:14,520
It always starts with a seed.

485
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:16,040
It doesn't start with a big grant.

486
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:17,480
It always starts with a small grant.

487
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:20,320
And the small grant leads to the next grant leads to the next grant.

488
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:22,560
And in life, people are biased.

489
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:24,380
Bias towards the person who can get funding.

490
00:24:24,380 --> 00:24:27,960
And so if you've gotten any funding, even the slightest bit of funding, you've already

491
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:30,400
voted for yourself as someone who can get more funding.

492
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:32,200
So just go off and find the first seed.

493
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,000
It doesn't have to be a big seed.

494
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:35,480
It does need to be a small seed.

495
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:36,480
A seed.

496
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:38,400
It's just got to be a seed.

497
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:40,840
And so you create that seed.

498
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:41,840
Use it.

499
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:43,280
You find the seed.

500
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:44,280
You plant it.

501
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:45,400
You grow something.

502
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:46,400
You produce.

503
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:47,920
You show everybody what you've produced.

504
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:52,960
And then you can use that to now grow more funding for your program.

505
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:59,200
Because your ultimate goal is to be the leader of the program, not the one working in it.

506
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:00,800
And have people to help you work in it.

507
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:01,800
All right.

508
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:03,120
Number six is be patient.

509
00:25:03,120 --> 00:25:04,760
Be patient.

510
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:05,760
Really.

511
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:06,960
You're just starting.

512
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:11,240
Don't compare yourself with people who've been doing this for years and years.

513
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:15,520
Don't compare yourself with people who started, you know, in kindergarten to do research because

514
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:17,520
their mother was a scientist.

515
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:18,520
Don't.

516
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:19,520
Don't compare yourself.

517
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:21,020
Be patient with yourself.

518
00:25:21,020 --> 00:25:22,800
And show yourself compassion.

519
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:24,640
Show yourself compassion.

520
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:28,420
The reason you started this research thing late in the game, so to speak, is because

521
00:25:28,420 --> 00:25:32,080
you had a desire to see something be solved.

522
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,560
You had a desire to solve a problem.

523
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:36,520
That problem is still important.

524
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:41,920
And even when it's slow going, even when it looks like no one's supporting you, be patient

525
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:43,400
with yourself.

526
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,080
You're going to make amazing things happen.

527
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:50,680
But good things only come to people who are patient.

528
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:52,120
So be patient.

529
00:25:52,120 --> 00:25:53,720
Number seven, get the help you need.

530
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:54,720
This is hard.

531
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:56,980
If you're going to build a research program, it takes help.

532
00:25:56,980 --> 00:25:57,980
It takes help.

533
00:25:57,980 --> 00:25:59,120
Some people have great mentors.

534
00:25:59,120 --> 00:26:00,120
Most people do not.

535
00:26:00,120 --> 00:26:01,840
Can I say that again?

536
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,020
Most people don't have great mentors.

537
00:26:04,020 --> 00:26:05,020
Most people do not.

538
00:26:05,020 --> 00:26:08,880
And just so you don't have a great mentor doesn't mean you're not going to succeed.

539
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:10,840
But get the help you need.

540
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:11,840
Who do you need?

541
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:12,840
You're like, well, I can't find a mentor.

542
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:13,840
I guess I quit.

543
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:14,840
No.

544
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:16,360
You need more than just a mentor.

545
00:26:16,360 --> 00:26:17,680
You need many mentors.

546
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:19,280
Which mentor are you missing?

547
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:21,800
Which mentoring category are you missing?

548
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,600
OK, maybe you don't have a research mentor.

549
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:29,280
But if your institution has any researchers in it, then you have options.

550
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:30,960
Which one is going to be the best for you?

551
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,320
What are they going to give you that you don't already have?

552
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:38,520
Don't wait for one person to give you everything you need.

553
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:42,560
Take what they can give you and then go find the next thing from the next person.

554
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:44,760
Have a cadre of mentors.

555
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,620
And you may not even need a mentor to learn some of the things you need.

556
00:26:47,620 --> 00:26:50,440
For example, this podcast says here's a resource for you.

557
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:54,440
I'm not your mentor, but you can learn a lot from this space.

558
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,560
So get the help you need.

559
00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:00,940
Don't sit back and hope for the best.

560
00:27:00,940 --> 00:27:03,400
Get the help you need.

561
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:07,200
With these seven things, number one, owning your strength, your clinical expertise, your

562
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:08,200
experience.

563
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:09,480
Number two, evaluating your need.

564
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:11,640
Number three, pushing for protected time.

565
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:13,280
Number four, assembling your team.

566
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:15,400
Number five, finding seed funding.

567
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:17,760
Number six, being patient.

568
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,400
Number seven, getting the help you need.

569
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:25,000
These are seven things that are important to help you build a research program.

570
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:28,080
And it's never too late to do that.

571
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:33,700
One thing I want to add at the end of all of this is that the who matters so much.

572
00:27:33,700 --> 00:27:37,080
You've never done research before, but there are other people who have.

573
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:40,880
And so you should seek them out to help you on your journey.

574
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,240
And you should actually think about partnering with them.

575
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:48,760
Maybe you're going to be just a clinical expert and they're going to be the research expert.

576
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,200
And together you're going to make a dynamite combo.

577
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,720
It is going to be so good.

578
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,000
It is never too late to build a research program.

579
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:02,760
And I hope that you will believe that and that you will go out this week and start asking,

580
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:06,680
how can I push for protected time?

581
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:07,920
What do I need?

582
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:12,440
I want you to start asking these questions and I want you to take a look at what you

583
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:17,520
already have, what you already have and what you already have can create.

584
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:21,560
And then I want you to start pushing for what you need.

585
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:23,320
Start grabbing what you need.

586
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:26,360
Start reaching out to people who have what you need.

587
00:28:26,360 --> 00:28:29,680
I want you to believe in your power to make it happen.

588
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:30,680
All right.

589
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:34,120
If this episode has been helpful to you, you got to share it.

590
00:28:34,120 --> 00:28:39,040
Please choose just one person who wants to do research, but feels like it's too late

591
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:40,040
for me.

592
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:43,160
Just one person, please.

593
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,240
And share this episode with them.

594
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:46,240
All right.

595
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:47,520
It's been a pleasure to talk with you today.

596
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:58,760
I look forward to talking with you again the next time.

597
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:04,080
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Clinician Researcher Podcast, where academic

598
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:09,560
clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program, whether or not they

599
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:10,900
have a mentor.

600
00:29:10,900 --> 00:29:17,000
If you found the information in this episode to be helpful, don't keep it all to yourself.

601
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:18,760
No one else needs to hear it.

602
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:22,800
So take a minute right now and share it.

603
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:28,280
As you share this episode, you become part of our mission to help launch a new generation

604
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:48,320
of clinician researchers who make transformative discoveries that change the way we do healthcare.