1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,860 Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills 2 00:00:05,860 --> 00:00:11,260 to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor. 3 00:00:11,260 --> 00:00:17,340 As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients. 4 00:00:17,340 --> 00:00:22,380 When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find 5 00:00:22,380 --> 00:00:27,780 that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research 6 00:00:27,780 --> 00:00:29,200 program. 7 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:35,480 Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit. 8 00:00:35,480 --> 00:00:40,580 However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs. 9 00:00:40,580 --> 00:00:46,200 For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians 10 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:51,800 the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor. 11 00:00:51,800 --> 00:01:01,120 Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene. 12 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:02,120 Welcome to today's episode. 13 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:06,440 I'm your host, Toyosi Onwuemene, and it is such a pleasure to be speaking with you today. 14 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:12,640 Today, I'm going to be talking about how fellows can succeed in their quest to become a clinician 15 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:13,640 scientist. 16 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:21,240 And, you know, to become a clinician scientist is hard, and to be honest, it is challenging. 17 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:27,400 But we've been doing challenging things from the very beginning, and many times when the 18 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:31,240 path is laid out for us, it seems less challenging. 19 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:35,720 It's still challenging, but we know what we're doing, and so it feels less frustrating. 20 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:40,480 And sometimes one of the challenges of doing this thing and trying to succeed as a clinician 21 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:45,360 scientist is that the path is not so clear, and some people get great mentors, some people 22 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:46,360 don't. 23 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:47,520 And so how do we do that? 24 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:49,880 How do we make the transition? 25 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:53,920 How do we succeed so that we're able to move forward the research that we really want to 26 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:54,920 move forward? 27 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:58,360 And so that's one of the things I want to talk about, because when I was interviewing 28 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:06,340 for jobs as a fellow transitioning to faculty, I wasn't really clear on what I wanted. 29 00:02:06,340 --> 00:02:08,400 People said, well, what kind of job are you looking for? 30 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:12,000 I was like, well, I'm looking for 75% protected time for research. 31 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:15,360 And they'd be like, well, so what kind of research do you want to do? 32 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:20,580 And I'm like, well, maybe cancer associated thrombosis, hemostasis thrombosis. 33 00:02:20,580 --> 00:02:22,120 And I was not very specific. 34 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:28,480 I didn't even recognize that that was an issue until now I'm in the one interviewing, I'm 35 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:31,280 the one in the seat interviewing people as they come through. 36 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:35,720 I'm the one in the driver's seat asking people, hey, why are you here? 37 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:36,720 What do you want to do? 38 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:38,200 How do you want to succeed? 39 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:42,780 And although I'm not making the final hiring decisions, I can now see how it was problematic 40 00:02:42,780 --> 00:02:46,960 for me back then to say, hey, I want 75% protected time. 41 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:53,440 And I couldn't clearly articulate what that 75% protected time would get me. 42 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:59,200 So there are five things I want to talk to you about as far as how do you move forward 43 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:03,960 in your fellowship in a way that allows you to set yourself up for success when you finally 44 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:05,900 go for job interviews. 45 00:03:05,900 --> 00:03:10,120 And I'd like to actually stop here and let you know that one of the things I do is I 46 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:16,240 help programs coach fellows so that they can be successful in that fellow to faculty transition. 47 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:20,860 And it's really important if you can get it right early on, it makes your journey so much 48 00:03:20,860 --> 00:03:21,860 easier. 49 00:03:21,860 --> 00:03:24,920 And so if you're a fellow and you're like, well, I can't afford coaching because it's 50 00:03:24,920 --> 00:03:25,920 so expensive. 51 00:03:25,920 --> 00:03:27,420 Yes, it is. 52 00:03:27,420 --> 00:03:31,920 But sometimes what happens is that fellowship programs support their fellows so they can 53 00:03:31,920 --> 00:03:38,140 get the coaching to negotiate the right jobs that put them in the seat to really help enhance 54 00:03:38,140 --> 00:03:40,540 and guarantee their success. 55 00:03:40,540 --> 00:03:43,720 And you can always do that with the help of a coach guiding you. 56 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:51,720 So if that's you, if you are interested, send me a DM, reach out to me on my website, coedcoach.com, 57 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:56,780 and we can set up a time to talk and see if this relationship is a right fit for the both 58 00:03:56,780 --> 00:03:57,780 of us. 59 00:03:57,780 --> 00:03:58,780 Okay. 60 00:03:58,780 --> 00:04:03,140 So the first thing you want to do in succeeding in your quest to become a clinician researcher 61 00:04:03,140 --> 00:04:06,820 is to use your fellowship time strategically. 62 00:04:06,820 --> 00:04:09,560 Use your fellowship time strategically. 63 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:12,500 What does that mean? 64 00:04:12,500 --> 00:04:16,620 Sometimes people are just kind of feeling their way around saying, well, I'm not sure 65 00:04:16,620 --> 00:04:21,340 what I want to do and maybe I'll do this or maybe I'll do that. 66 00:04:21,340 --> 00:04:22,820 We'll see how things go. 67 00:04:22,820 --> 00:04:28,380 And I want to tell you that whenever you have that feeling of not really being sure where 68 00:04:28,380 --> 00:04:34,060 you want to go, it is a sign that you have work to do. 69 00:04:34,060 --> 00:04:39,420 And I will tell you that in our training, there's a lot of disconnectedness that happens 70 00:04:39,420 --> 00:04:44,540 because of how much we work hard to disconnect ourselves from our feelings. 71 00:04:44,540 --> 00:04:45,780 We're delivering bad news. 72 00:04:45,780 --> 00:04:52,260 We try very hard to cut off all emotions so we don't cry, so we can be objective. 73 00:04:52,260 --> 00:04:55,580 We are sleepy, but we have an overnight shift. 74 00:04:55,580 --> 00:05:01,580 And so we suppress the urge to sleep, sometimes chemically, sometimes just by sheer force 75 00:05:01,580 --> 00:05:02,820 of will. 76 00:05:02,820 --> 00:05:06,300 We need to go to the bathroom, but we're in the middle of an OR case. 77 00:05:06,300 --> 00:05:09,940 And so we are suppressing the urge to go to the bathroom. 78 00:05:09,940 --> 00:05:18,180 We practice for so long how to disconnect ourselves from our feelings, from our emotions. 79 00:05:18,180 --> 00:05:22,620 And because of that, when we get to the point where we should be thinking very clearly about 80 00:05:22,620 --> 00:05:27,220 what we want for our careers, we're stuck, we're confused, we don't know. 81 00:05:27,220 --> 00:05:31,300 We're waiting for external forces to move us in the right direction. 82 00:05:31,300 --> 00:05:36,780 Maybe when I get on this rotation, I'll find a patient whose disease I fall in love with. 83 00:05:36,780 --> 00:05:38,940 It's not that that can't happen. 84 00:05:38,940 --> 00:05:44,980 It's that many times our inner voices, our inner compass is so suppressed that we can 85 00:05:44,980 --> 00:05:48,060 only recognize it when it slaps us in the face. 86 00:05:48,060 --> 00:05:51,620 We can only recognize what we want when it's right there in front of us. 87 00:05:51,620 --> 00:05:55,820 And that's why there's that sense that, well, if I encounter the right patient, if I'm just 88 00:05:55,820 --> 00:05:58,980 in the right mentor's presence, I'll know it. 89 00:05:58,980 --> 00:06:02,700 And yes, you might, but what if you don't get that mentor? 90 00:06:02,700 --> 00:06:04,220 What if you don't get that patient? 91 00:06:04,220 --> 00:06:05,500 What if you don't get around them? 92 00:06:05,500 --> 00:06:06,980 And then you're stuck. 93 00:06:06,980 --> 00:06:09,220 You're stuck not knowing what you want to do. 94 00:06:09,220 --> 00:06:15,820 And so anyway, so what I'm really saying is that, hey, it takes time, work, energy, and 95 00:06:15,820 --> 00:06:19,220 investment to figure out what you really want to do. 96 00:06:19,220 --> 00:06:23,980 And it is important upfront to clarify what that is. 97 00:06:23,980 --> 00:06:26,420 And a lot of that can happen with the help of a coach. 98 00:06:26,420 --> 00:06:31,700 It doesn't have to be a coach, but allowing yourself to have the time and the space to 99 00:06:31,700 --> 00:06:36,300 really get back in touch with the way you feel about things, with what you really want 100 00:06:36,300 --> 00:06:37,460 to do. 101 00:06:37,460 --> 00:06:40,540 What is your driving sense of purpose? 102 00:06:40,540 --> 00:06:46,060 It allows you to make a decision so that you can use your fellowship time strategically. 103 00:06:46,060 --> 00:06:47,640 You don't know what you want to do. 104 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:51,540 You don't know what your experiences, what experiences in fellowship are going to move 105 00:06:51,540 --> 00:06:52,980 you forward. 106 00:06:52,980 --> 00:06:57,420 And what happens is that you kind of wander around, and at the end, when you finally have 107 00:06:57,420 --> 00:07:02,460 to make a decision, you literally just pick whatever you find and then move on. 108 00:07:02,460 --> 00:07:06,740 And so I just want to encourage you that if you are a fellow and you're not even sure 109 00:07:06,740 --> 00:07:14,140 what you want to do, talk with somebody, make time to really clarify what your desires, 110 00:07:14,140 --> 00:07:21,740 goals, wants are so that you can be very strategic about how your fellowship moves you forward. 111 00:07:21,740 --> 00:07:26,580 Don't accept a fellowship experience where you don't have clarity from the beginning 112 00:07:26,580 --> 00:07:28,940 about what you want to get out of your fellowship. 113 00:07:28,940 --> 00:07:32,580 So use your fellowship time strategically. 114 00:07:32,580 --> 00:07:38,780 The second thing you can do is to think carefully about the opportunities before you. 115 00:07:38,780 --> 00:07:42,780 That is to think carefully about the opportunities before you. 116 00:07:42,780 --> 00:07:44,300 What does that mean? 117 00:07:44,300 --> 00:07:47,760 In fellowship, there'll be so many opportunities. 118 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:50,020 It feels overwhelming. 119 00:07:50,020 --> 00:07:54,220 There's this scientist you could work with, and there's this other project. 120 00:07:54,220 --> 00:07:55,340 There's so many of them. 121 00:07:55,340 --> 00:07:59,580 And sometimes it's tempting just to go with, in a sense, just guess and say, I'll just 122 00:07:59,580 --> 00:08:00,580 go with this one. 123 00:08:00,580 --> 00:08:01,580 I'll go with my gut. 124 00:08:01,580 --> 00:08:05,860 And going with your gut has probably served you a lot. 125 00:08:05,860 --> 00:08:09,620 So I don't discount its power to serve you again. 126 00:08:09,620 --> 00:08:18,340 But really, as you grow and as you really start to take ownership of your career, you 127 00:08:18,340 --> 00:08:24,460 stop going with your gut, and you start asking your gut to explain why it feels the way it 128 00:08:24,460 --> 00:08:25,460 does. 129 00:08:25,460 --> 00:08:29,940 And sometimes going with your gut is that you're so disconnected from how you feel. 130 00:08:29,940 --> 00:08:33,820 It's just literally you're looking for a rumbly in your belly to tell you, OK, this is what 131 00:08:33,820 --> 00:08:35,500 I want to do. 132 00:08:35,500 --> 00:08:39,860 And so what you really want to do is take a step back and say, well, how do I want to 133 00:08:39,860 --> 00:08:41,300 contribute? 134 00:08:41,300 --> 00:08:43,100 How do I want to be remembered? 135 00:08:43,100 --> 00:08:45,220 What do I really want to do? 136 00:08:45,220 --> 00:08:50,300 And then you say, what are the opportunities before me that helped me get there? 137 00:08:50,300 --> 00:08:55,380 And that's why number one is so important in clarifying what you want so that you can 138 00:08:55,380 --> 00:08:57,940 use your fellowship time strategically. 139 00:08:57,940 --> 00:09:05,060 Then it also allows you to analyze and evaluate all the opportunities before you to say, which 140 00:09:05,060 --> 00:09:09,020 opportunity gets me closest to my goal? 141 00:09:09,020 --> 00:09:12,380 All opportunities are not created alike. 142 00:09:12,380 --> 00:09:15,300 Several mentors don't get you to the same place. 143 00:09:15,300 --> 00:09:20,200 But when you have a clear sense of direction, you're able to say, this mentor can do this 144 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:21,460 for me. 145 00:09:21,460 --> 00:09:26,820 I can learn these techniques in this mentor's lab, or this mentor already has access to 146 00:09:26,820 --> 00:09:32,860 this expertise that allows me to connect to my purpose, that allows me to connect to my 147 00:09:32,860 --> 00:09:34,580 why. 148 00:09:34,580 --> 00:09:39,780 And so understanding where you want to go allows you to assess the opportunities before 149 00:09:39,780 --> 00:09:45,860 you so you can pick the one that really helps you move forward. 150 00:09:45,860 --> 00:09:51,700 Number three is to have a plan for your unstructured research time. 151 00:09:51,700 --> 00:09:55,940 So what I find is that many fellows kind of just slug through the first year. 152 00:09:55,940 --> 00:09:57,740 It is such a hard year. 153 00:09:57,740 --> 00:10:02,420 And then at the end of it, they're recovering for three months and four months and five 154 00:10:02,420 --> 00:10:05,260 months and they're still recovering. 155 00:10:05,260 --> 00:10:10,980 But what is happening is that they have never been in the situation, not in the eight, nine, 156 00:10:10,980 --> 00:10:16,860 ten years of their training, where there's no clear plan for what they're supposed to 157 00:10:16,860 --> 00:10:17,860 do. 158 00:10:17,860 --> 00:10:20,340 And so many fellows have a hard time with that. 159 00:10:20,340 --> 00:10:25,180 Yes, they may show up to the lab in the morning and do all the activities, or they may show 160 00:10:25,180 --> 00:10:31,620 up to their research mentors' research program and do the things that are required of them. 161 00:10:31,620 --> 00:10:36,680 But where there's no experiment to be done or where they're waiting in between experiments, 162 00:10:36,680 --> 00:10:41,060 there isn't a clear sense of what to do with that unstructured time. 163 00:10:41,060 --> 00:10:45,860 And so if you're going to be successful in making the transition to become a clinician 164 00:10:45,860 --> 00:10:53,560 scientist, you're going to become a master at making unstructured time structured. 165 00:10:53,560 --> 00:10:55,020 Everybody needs structure. 166 00:10:55,020 --> 00:10:56,800 Everybody thrives with structure. 167 00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:59,260 Everybody does well with structure. 168 00:10:59,260 --> 00:11:03,420 Many times you create the structure you need. 169 00:11:03,420 --> 00:11:07,580 Some people are waiting for their fellowship programs to say, hey, from nine to two, this 170 00:11:07,580 --> 00:11:09,020 is what you do. 171 00:11:09,020 --> 00:11:12,160 And then from two to five, this is your schedule. 172 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:15,780 It's really nice if your fellowship program provides that for you. 173 00:11:15,780 --> 00:11:19,740 But a time is coming when you're going to need to be the one creating structure for 174 00:11:19,740 --> 00:11:22,140 your structured time. 175 00:11:22,140 --> 00:11:25,020 Starting in fellowship is a great time to do it. 176 00:11:25,020 --> 00:11:27,980 Don't let unstructured time get away with you. 177 00:11:27,980 --> 00:11:36,140 Don't make believe that you are on an extended vacation doing research. 178 00:11:36,140 --> 00:11:42,140 Make sure you have the tools to create structure out of unstructured time. 179 00:11:42,140 --> 00:11:47,580 And again, I'm really partial to coaching in helping you get to where you need to be, 180 00:11:47,580 --> 00:11:53,340 get the coaching you need so that you can make the best use of your unstructured time. 181 00:11:53,340 --> 00:11:55,580 Perhaps you have a mentor who can help you do that. 182 00:11:55,580 --> 00:11:58,740 Whoever it is, get the help you need. 183 00:11:58,740 --> 00:11:59,740 Get the help you need. 184 00:11:59,740 --> 00:12:02,180 If you need me to help you, send me a DM. 185 00:12:02,180 --> 00:12:04,780 We'll talk about how to help you create structure. 186 00:12:04,780 --> 00:12:11,260 But get the help you need to create structure so that you can be successful in your time 187 00:12:11,260 --> 00:12:15,320 as a researcher during your fellowship. 188 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:21,620 Number four is to apply for as many opportunities as you can. 189 00:12:21,620 --> 00:12:25,620 Rejection is tough and rejection is a part of the work we do. 190 00:12:25,620 --> 00:12:28,980 The reason rejection is a part of the work we do is because our work is unfolding, our 191 00:12:28,980 --> 00:12:32,660 work is evolving, and it's not perfect at the beginning. 192 00:12:32,660 --> 00:12:34,340 We're prototyping. 193 00:12:34,340 --> 00:12:40,180 With each failure, so to speak, with each failure is an opportunity to do things differently 194 00:12:40,180 --> 00:12:41,980 next time. 195 00:12:41,980 --> 00:12:42,980 Some people are lucky. 196 00:12:42,980 --> 00:12:44,100 They get it right the first time. 197 00:12:44,100 --> 00:12:46,680 They get the grant funded the first time. 198 00:12:46,680 --> 00:12:47,940 Most people are not. 199 00:12:47,940 --> 00:12:52,980 It takes two tries, three tries, four tries, five tries, and five tries iterating each 200 00:12:52,980 --> 00:12:59,940 time to bring something new, something different out of what existed in the past. 201 00:12:59,940 --> 00:13:05,180 Part of iterating, getting better each time you submit, getting more high quality feedback 202 00:13:05,180 --> 00:13:13,580 each time you submit is doing it again, and then doing it again, and then doing it again. 203 00:13:13,580 --> 00:13:18,720 Really applying for as many opportunities as makes sense for you is important because 204 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:24,100 it not only advances your work in fellowship, but it also gives you opportunities as a faculty 205 00:13:24,100 --> 00:13:30,840 member because you get practice in the act of submitting and submitting again and submitting 206 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:41,880 again, which really is what happens to as many people as are pursuing this path of becoming 207 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:44,100 clinician scientists. 208 00:13:44,100 --> 00:13:46,100 Your work is going to be rejected. 209 00:13:46,100 --> 00:13:50,860 You may not align with the funder, or maybe there's a more meritorious application, or 210 00:13:50,860 --> 00:13:57,900 actually your application is equally meritorious, but the priorities of the funder support the 211 00:13:57,900 --> 00:13:59,740 other project. 212 00:13:59,740 --> 00:14:04,160 There are always going to be reasons why your work is rejected, but applying for as many 213 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:09,380 opportunities as you can allows you to refine your work, allows you to improve over time, 214 00:14:09,380 --> 00:14:12,460 allows you to get over the pain of rejection. 215 00:14:12,460 --> 00:14:15,740 It takes time to recover and to get used to it. 216 00:14:15,740 --> 00:14:19,540 You get over it, and then you're like, okay, what's the next opportunity? 217 00:14:19,540 --> 00:14:20,540 What makes sense? 218 00:14:20,540 --> 00:14:27,380 It increases your chances that you get funded, increases your chances that you are able to 219 00:14:27,380 --> 00:14:32,740 say, I'm someone who's put forward an application that's been successful, and that always looks 220 00:14:32,740 --> 00:14:37,580 good when you go to interview, but it's also good for you because it helps you establish 221 00:14:37,580 --> 00:14:40,820 a pattern of moving forward in spite of rejection. 222 00:14:40,820 --> 00:14:43,700 And it doesn't have to be just about grants. 223 00:14:43,700 --> 00:14:45,740 You submit proposals for different things. 224 00:14:45,740 --> 00:14:51,460 You're putting forward a proposal for a new project, for a new education initiative. 225 00:14:51,460 --> 00:14:55,640 Applying for as many opportunities as you can gives you an opportunity to learn how 226 00:14:55,640 --> 00:15:01,100 to do it better each time, but it also gives you insight into where you don't go, where 227 00:15:01,100 --> 00:15:02,900 your work may not be as accepted. 228 00:15:02,900 --> 00:15:06,680 So there are many, many opportunities that come as a result of that. 229 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:12,300 The fifth thing that fellows can do to succeed in their quest is to have a clear vision for 230 00:15:12,300 --> 00:15:14,880 their careers when they interview. 231 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:19,580 So I have the opportunity now to interview so many people when they come our way and 232 00:15:19,580 --> 00:15:24,620 are looking for jobs at our institution, and I say, where do you see yourself in three 233 00:15:24,620 --> 00:15:25,620 years? 234 00:15:25,620 --> 00:15:26,620 And they can't answer that question. 235 00:15:26,620 --> 00:15:32,140 I mean, people fumble through, but it's very, very different when somebody says, in five 236 00:15:32,140 --> 00:15:38,220 years, I will be applying for a career development award because what I want to do is be established 237 00:15:38,220 --> 00:15:41,300 as a clinician investigator in sickle cell research. 238 00:15:41,300 --> 00:15:43,420 Wow, that's so clear. 239 00:15:43,420 --> 00:15:47,060 And it may not be true, and I'm not saying you should lie, but I'm saying that you will 240 00:15:47,060 --> 00:15:48,880 evolve over time. 241 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:53,660 What you feel so sure about today may not be what you feel so sure about tomorrow, but 242 00:15:53,660 --> 00:15:57,420 you should have a clear plan and a clear goal. 243 00:15:57,420 --> 00:16:01,060 Because what it communicates to people is that you've really thought about it. 244 00:16:01,060 --> 00:16:02,980 You've been very thoughtful. 245 00:16:02,980 --> 00:16:07,620 You're not just kind of like waving your hands in the air and thinking, oh, how might this 246 00:16:07,620 --> 00:16:08,620 work? 247 00:16:08,620 --> 00:16:11,020 You have a clear plan for your future. 248 00:16:11,020 --> 00:16:14,140 And that means you're someone who thinks clearly. 249 00:16:14,140 --> 00:16:15,900 You're someone who takes action. 250 00:16:15,900 --> 00:16:17,900 You're someone who's decisive. 251 00:16:17,900 --> 00:16:19,060 And it helps you. 252 00:16:19,060 --> 00:16:23,980 It helps you because when you're saying, I want 75% protected time for my research, if 253 00:16:23,980 --> 00:16:26,740 that's what you want, you have a clear reason. 254 00:16:26,740 --> 00:16:28,540 You know what that will do for you. 255 00:16:28,540 --> 00:16:34,260 And you'll say, well, I've written this R01, I've written this grant, and I know it may 256 00:16:34,260 --> 00:16:37,300 be rejected the first or the second time around. 257 00:16:37,300 --> 00:16:42,540 And I know it's going to take time to really evolve it into the project I want it to be. 258 00:16:42,540 --> 00:16:47,700 And therefore, this protected time allows me to continue to refine my idea until it 259 00:16:47,700 --> 00:16:51,020 gets funded and I'm able to get my own independent funding. 260 00:16:51,020 --> 00:16:53,020 It makes it very clear. 261 00:16:53,020 --> 00:16:55,780 It makes it very clear that you have a sense of your direction. 262 00:16:55,780 --> 00:16:58,300 No one's going to have to give it to you. 263 00:16:58,300 --> 00:17:03,860 And that helps people have confidence in your ability to deliver or make use of the help 264 00:17:03,860 --> 00:17:06,780 that's given to you so that you can deliver. 265 00:17:06,780 --> 00:17:12,100 So those are five things that fellows can think about in their quest to become a clinician 266 00:17:12,100 --> 00:17:13,220 researcher. 267 00:17:13,220 --> 00:17:16,940 And I want to say that if this episode has been helpful to you, if you think it will 268 00:17:16,940 --> 00:17:19,860 be helpful to someone else, please share it with them. 269 00:17:19,860 --> 00:17:28,580 We also are asking you to please subscribe and share your feedback by rating the podcast. 270 00:17:28,580 --> 00:17:30,460 We want to hear from you. 271 00:17:30,460 --> 00:17:35,500 And we know that as you rate the podcast, we're hoping you'll give us a five star rating. 272 00:17:35,500 --> 00:17:37,380 It helps other people find us as well. 273 00:17:37,380 --> 00:17:38,380 All right. 274 00:17:38,380 --> 00:17:40,140 It's been a pleasure to talk with you today. 275 00:17:40,140 --> 00:17:53,660 I look forward to the next time. 276 00:17:53,660 --> 00:17:58,980 Thanks for listening to this episode of the Clinician Researcher Podcast, where academic 277 00:17:58,980 --> 00:18:04,340 clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program, whether or not they 278 00:18:04,340 --> 00:18:05,780 have a mentor. 279 00:18:05,780 --> 00:18:11,860 If you found the information in this episode to be helpful, don't keep it all to yourself. 280 00:18:11,860 --> 00:18:13,620 Someone else needs to hear it. 281 00:18:13,620 --> 00:18:17,660 So take a minute right now and share it. 282 00:18:17,660 --> 00:18:23,140 As you share this episode, you become part of our mission to help launch a new generation 283 00:18:23,140 --> 00:18:36,020 of clinician researchers who make transformative discoveries that change the way we do healthcare.