Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills
to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.
As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients.
When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find
that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research
program.
Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit.
However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs.
For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians
the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.
Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene.
All right, everybody.
Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast.
I'm your host, Toyosi Onwuemene, and it is such a pleasure to be here today.
I have an amazing guest with us today, and I'm going to take a minute to allow him to
introduce himself.
Dai Wai, thank you so much for being on the show.
Welcome.
Well, thank you.
So my name is Dai Wai Olson.
I'm a nurse at Dallas, Texas at UT Southwestern, and I've been involved in clinical research
on a formal scale since 2001, but I think all of us get that first clinical research
bug at about the age of three or four.
Those are my favorites.
The little super scientists who I remember watching one of my grandkids threw something
into a pond, kind of looked and then got something else and threw it in and was doing the does
it float, does it sink experiment.
And I'm like, yeah, that's clinical research.
So I think I've always been a researcher.
I just didn't have the street cred yet.
Oh, I love what you say.
So what you're saying is that the curiosity that's alive in us from when we're young is
really what prepares us to be clinician researchers later on in life.
I think it's what drives us to be clinician researchers.
What prepares us is learning how to ask the right question.
I mean, we've got that.
I think a friend of mine back in high school argued about everything and should have been
a researcher because researchers were basically trying to find ways to win an argument.
We're not taking no for an answer.
Yeah.
Well, you're right.
You thwarted me there.
You've figured out how to make it that you rejected my null hypothesis.
And I'm going to get more data.
Because I still think I'm right, but now I've got to test this and build the data to eventually
prove that, yeah, I was right all along.
I just didn't ask the question in the right way.
I like it.
Well, tell us your story.
How did you get here?
Well, I got here.
I started out college back in 1980 hoping to become a scientist.
I was looking to become an aquacultural bioscientist.
I wanted to grow plants using water.
And then Ron Reagan came into power and lots of things happened.
And I lost my scholarship and was homeless for a little bit and found that there was
a nursing shortage.
So I thought, ah, in two years I could get a nursing degree, make enough money to go
back to school and become a scientist.
And so I was in nursing school and I met my wife.
I got married.
I was a nurse for about seven years and a nurse named Denise Antle, who I owe my life
to.
I was blathering on about how I'm going to get out of nursing and do something.
And she walked, this is in the 80s.
You were allowed to do this.
She walked up to me and slapped me across the face and said, what are you talking about?
You're a nurse and you're a good nurse.
And it was at that moment that I realized like, yeah, I love what I'm doing.
I grew up, I didn't know men could be nurses.
I was the only nurse in the hospital at the time who was male.
And I'm like, yeah.
And she mentored me and was wonderful and caring, which all nurses are.
And I realized I had to go back to school and get the training that I needed to do the
things I wanted to do.
I had originally come out of high school thinking I was going to save the world by growing plants
with water and realized that I still wanted to do my little part to sort of make a difference
in the world.
And so I went to nursing school and finished with that.
I moved to North Carolina.
I graduated from University of North Carolina with my PhD in nursing.
Spent 20 years in North Carolina at Duke and then was recruited to Dallas where I am now.
And I'm in the Department of Neurology and Neurosurgery and I run something called the
Neuroscience Nursing Research Fellowship, training more people on how they can be researchers.
Ooh, I love that.
So now I want you, because now you coming up this not just as a clinician researcher,
but also someone who trains people to be researchers.
So what is needed for clinicians to make that transition from I'm a clinician, I take care
of patients to I'm a researcher and I can move the research enterprise forward?
I think we are not very good at letting people know they can do it.
We put research on such a high pedestal that we almost approach it like you got to prove
to me that you, lowly person that you are, can someday become an academic.
And that's just crap.
Like, anybody can do this.
I'm not a particularly smart person.
I just work really hard.
And so I approach it by, let's your first study, because everybody who comes to me,
there's two studies they have in mind.
Study number one is I'm going to collect 400,000 variables from 270,000 patients and answer
one question that will solve world peace.
The other person says I'm going to do this one study with seven people that answers 248
questions that will solve world peace.
And instead of that, I'm like, how about let's just do one simple study you can do in about
a year that's going to solve this little teeny tiny little question here.
And that's going to move the ball forward.
And they do it, and they go, you know, I did it.
And it wasn't, it's not a jam of paper.
But it did answer a question that we've had.
And those people, I think, not everyone, but some of them get the bug and go, OK, now I
want to answer a harder question and a better question and use more variables, and I want
to get statistics.
If you were teaching someone how to play chess, you wouldn't start out going, you know, like,
well, first you have to learn the Queen's Gambit, right?
You build your way into it.
So that's sort of how I approach research is let them put a toe in the water.
And frankly, some people decide they don't want to do it.
And I'm OK with that.
If after doing research, you discover you don't want to do research.
That's a good thing.
Find out early.
I like it.
So what you're talking about is the door is open for everyone.
Everyone should have the opportunity.
It shouldn't be a thing where you select people out to do it.
And you start small and people achieve small wins, and then they can get bigger and bigger.
Absolutely.
Something we do if we really boil down to it, you know, the greatest chef in the world
started out making a peanut butter jelly sandwich and was really proud of it, too.
You know, my wife is now a phenomenal chef.
She was cooking with one of our grandkids who got to stir something.
But proudly announced, I made dinner.
Now we could write the academic in us wants to go, you didn't make dinner.
All you did was one of those.
But really, you know, why not let him own it?
There's no harm in that.
And start start with us.
Get this small win and and build that confidence.
You can certainly name one person you've met in your life who doesn't have any good ideas.
I can't think of it.
You're right.
Now, Tommy, Tommy, what are the major challenges you seeing for clinicians who want to transition
to research roles?
And maybe if you want to speak from the perspective of the clinicians themselves and from the
perspective of the institution?
Well, from the perspective of the clinician.
And I don't know if you have to edit this out.
Funding is an issue.
The NIH is irrevocably broken.
It is a failed institution.
It's also the best game in town.
And that's why we all do it.
I've never talked to anyone behind closed doors who hasn't said, oh, yeah, the NIH is broken.
It's all about who you know, and it's an old, you know, it's the old boys club.
But we have to fight our way into it.
So that's a challenge is how do how do how do we get in here?
One way we can do that is partner with industry.
Industry in the past 20 years has gotten a dirty like if you say, oh, I'm doing a study
with sponsored by a drug company, people like, oh, a drug company.
Well, if I don't help this drug company answer the question correctly, they're going to they're
going to do harm.
Right.
This this device, they need some clinical expertise to identify something that's going
to solve a problem that we that need solving.
So we do need to partner with them.
And that helps people get started.
Right.
And transitioning.
The other thing is exactly what we talked about before.
Go for a small win.
Don't start out when you if you're going to get started and you want to be a clinician,
scientist, a clinician, researcher.
Start small.
Get a win.
I like it.
OK.
So, yes, I mean, you're talking about really diversifying your funding sources as well.
Don't just have a one track.
I want to go to the NIH.
I want to go to the NIH because it's hard.
And while you're pursuing that goal, you should be pursuing other funding opportunities as
well, including industry.
Yeah.
And in the industry, there's there's an awful lot of money available for research.
That goes unclaimed because nobody asked for it.
There's grants and there's there's foundations and there's people trying to give away money.
And, you know, there's there's there's philanthropists who want to give money to solve a problem,
but no one's ever asked them.
And if you if you start small and you're open to, well, you know, maybe this is only a thousand
dollars.
Maybe this is only ten thousand fifteen thousand dollars.
What can I do?
How can I ask a question that will move the ball forward?
With just this much much funding.
Not every question means 14 million dollars.
And you can you can do a lot.
There's important questions in the clinical environment that still need to be asked.
Some of them don't don't take a lot of money at all.
Yeah, I like it.
It's like not not despising any source of funding, being open and and just being small.
I'm starting small because sometimes we are looking for the million dollar couple of million
dollar grant.
But what can you do with a couple of ten thousand or or a hundred thousand?
Yeah, right, right.
Tommy, what are the major the insights, major insights that you gained along your journey
that younger people who are just starting really should know?
I think that one of the insights is is clinical research.
We've taken we've sort of taken a backseat to binge science over the past 20, 30 decades
that you know that we focused in on on killing mice and things like that as as science.
And if you do clinical research, don't apologize.
Don't like own it.
That's where that's what your love is.
And there's a lot of importance to that.
And so so don't don't apologize for what you love.
And I think that's why is own it and be proud of what you're doing.
Two is I was taught that clinical research is dirty because of all the very.
And and it's not dirty.
It's filthy.
It's more it's worse than dirty.
But embrace it.
Because all of that dirt, which statistically is what we call noise, right, it's error,
it's variance, it's it's confounders, it's unexplained variables and the influence.
Well, that's that's sometimes the best small start.
Right.
Is how can you reduce the noise by trying to clean up?
There is an awful lot of dirt that needs to be cleaned up in clinical research.
We all do almost everything different.
And I personally think as a clinician scientist, a lot of that's important.
Right.
Whether or not you start.
You you start the the IV and the left or right arm.
Does that make a difference?
I don't know.
But it'd be awfully easy to easy to figure it out.
When when we give a pint of blood.
Look.
Why do we do that?
Why the volumes like to us volume is so important.
Right.
But is it three twenty four mils or four twenty five?
Is there a difference between two hundred and eighty and two hundred and eighty one?
At what point in time like these are easy questions, I think, to ask.
But they become really, really important because the big big mega trials, right, the big mega
trial will say.
Infuse one liter.
At the onset of X. OK, well.
Most of us know that a liter of saline can have anywhere from nine hundred and fifty
to eleven hundred mils.
So a liter, even a liter.
But then some scientists massages this data.
Right.
And comes up with this regression plot that that shows like for every one hundred mils
X predicts Y.
And you know, that's flawed.
So you can.
You could own this.
You these questions that we have during rounds, these questions that, you know, it's as a
nurse, sorry, our shift in at six forty five, the six thirty p.m. question.
Right.
That's that's the one that needs to be.
And that's the one that as a as a new clinician researcher, like like dig into it because
you're passionate about it, you're passionate about it, not that that you're going to go
to breakfast breakfast with someone or you're going to argue with someone down in the cafeteria
over that little piece.
Hang on to that and and own it.
Thank you, Daiwa.
We know one of the things that what you're saying brings up for me is many times clinicians
will say, well, I just need to get on my mentor's project.
I just need to get on my mentor's project.
And they hate their mentor's project.
It's hard to start.
What is your advice for them?
Well, first off, if you if you hate your mentor's project, get a different mentor.
Because now, although I say that another one of my my mentors was Suzanne Thorie and her,
she studied neo high risk neonatal infant feeding.
I don't care anything about that.
Right.
It was all about like these these preterm infants.
And did they did their oxygen saturation drop if they if they use this kind of a nipple
versus that or that it met right.
I ain't cared nothing about that.
I hated her project.
But she was a brilliant mentor and her patients were so similar to mine because I'm in neurocritical
care.
My patients can't talk to me.
Her patients couldn't talk to her.
And the family is a really big deal in the neuro ICU because they're they're present
and they influence care like, you know, they they change things they do they move.
Family is a big deal in in the NICU.
I use a lot of machines to understand my my patients.
Right.
ICP monitors, heart monitors, oxygen, entitled CO2, like stroke, five, lots.
I from from these machines, I derive an understanding of the patient.
Because the patient can't tell me where it hurts.
Same with her.
Right.
So, you know, my my people's brains aren't fully functioning.
Her infant brain isn't fully functioning.
So what we what we found was we have a lot of areas where where there is a commonality.
And.
And that's how we formed this relationship.
And she agreed to mentor at first when when we were talking, you know, she was like, I
don't think I'm the right person.
And and so I think the answer to your question is if you hate your mentors project, but you
really like that person.
And you really think that I bet there's somewhere that maybe it's the techniques they're using
or or or how they approach a problem.
Find that piece.
You may do a completely different study and and as mentors, I mean, you're a mentor, I'm
a mentor.
I love any time someone is foolish enough to listen to me.
And and mentors love to mentor.
So I bet that person really does want to help you succeed, even if it's not in their particular.
I still have never done a study with a need.
I love it.
I think one of the things that sometimes, especially when the younger people are, is
they come thinking they have to be like their mentor.
And it doesn't have to be that way.
But what you do want to take something from your mentor, what are you taking?
Doesn't have to be the exact same project.
But there's definitely something that they offer that you can take into your own project.
And that's important to consider as well.
Yeah, that's a brilliant way to put it.
You know, is it and maybe that's that's one of the things people need to understand.
Approach it, recognizing that.
The myth, a lot of what what happens in research and medicine in general is these myths that
everybody has to take this trajectory and you feel like you're you're the you're like
the outlier.
And the truth is, we're all outliers.
And that's that's a benefit.
Like the more outliers we have in health care, the better, because we all of our patients
are outliers.
And so we need we need more outliers.
And so instead of thinking you don't belong, think like you got to be in there to to broaden
that piece.
Absolutely.
And now speaking to kind of like bringing everybody in a question that I'm excited to
ask you is why should every clinical study include a nurse investigator?
Because I need to be fun.
No.
You had mentioned and and it took me I was I finished my degree probably five or six
years before I learned how much research training most physicians get, which it turns out is
close to none.
Maybe one month or two in training.
Hello.
Right.
And and and that opened my eyes to so most most nurse, PhD prepared nurse researchers
have spent five to seven years of their life learning how to do clinical research.
Like I spent seven years in my PhD program.
I learned I took three different year long courses in methodology.
Just how did I spent two semesters in a theory class learning how to ask a question?
That was it.
Right.
So one big reason to get a nurse researcher on your team is we've probably spent a lot
of time learning how to do research.
Now we may not have the same question with you, but we have a whole back of ways to ask
questions and to dig down to questions.
Muriel Michelle, she she was at UNC and I just remember spending three hours with her
where she kept saying, what's the question?
And I would say, oh, the question is that she was no, no, that's not the question.
Go deeper.
What's the question?
And I'm like crying like I don't know.
But but she she taught us how to drill down to a really good question.
And so a lot of us have have spent that.
And we understand like nurses speak family and physician were translators.
Right.
We're at the bedside for 12 hours at a row.
The same bedside in the ICU.
And so we can speak to the reality of how are you going to collect your data?
What data exists?
What about the data fidelity?
Like a lot of and if you're a physician and you believe this, I'm going to help you out
right now.
It's not true.
Most of what's in the EMR is junk.
Just because it says the blood pressure was 120 over 80 at 10 a.m. doesn't mean anything.
It doesn't tell you what the blood pressure was at nine fifty nine.
It might not even be 120 over 80 at 10 a.m.
It may have been that the nurse checked the blood pressure somewhere around nine forty
five.
We wrote down on our little piece of paper or the computer, grabbed it or something.
And so if you understand the fidelity of the data, which nurses intimately understand how
stuff gets into the EMR, that's going to allow you to ask a better question.
But also because we understand the clinical environment from the perspective of what's
really happening.
Right.
And what happens for you as a physician when you as a physician walk into the room.
Like the world stops like the nurses, the patient, the family.
Everybody's like, OK, they're here.
But that's not what happens as soon as you turn your back.
And that's the environment where we can help design the study to get you the data that
you really want.
And to fit it in.
So so where we're and I'm going to make up a fake example so no one gets offended that
a physician says, oh, well, we're going to get our CTs at nine a.m.
Right.
Well, nine a.m. is like one of the busiest times for nurses.
We got rounds and passing our meds and picking up after breakfast and getting that first
walk in.
Dude.
How about.
Does it really have to be nine a.m. is nine a.m. a magical time?
And then when you talk to them, they're like, no, I don't care.
But no, or two or three or well, how about at four o'clock in the afternoon?
Yeah, that'd be fine.
OK, that we can do.
Right.
And so having those conversations.
With a nurse.
It's easier to it's easier to collect the data.
It's easier to enroll patients.
Some of my my residents and fellows are like, oh, well, we'll just consent the family when
data the.
Family's not always here.
Oh, they're always here.
No, no.
And you as a physician say, I'm going to be there at 10 a.m.
There's 12 family members.
But family ain't always here.
Right.
So so I think we have I think we can bring a lot towards making your study more successful,
one because we've we've been trained in how to do research to we understand the clinical
environment in a different way than the physician.
We're not better than physicians.
We're not worse than physicians.
We are a different profession.
And the more diversity we get with with the lens of looking at the problem.
The more comprehensively we can understand and approach the question that will solve
the problem.
I love it.
I love the idea of the need, the diversity of perspectives that strengthens every research
study.
And if you are invested in your study, actually succeeding and coming up with an answer that
actually is meaningful and real, you should involve the people who are kind of drivers
of patient care at the bedside.
Yeah, I love the way you put that.
I love it.
Can I start over again and say that?
Well, let me ask you this, though.
OK, two things, because, you know, I listened to a talk that you gave at the American Society
for Aforesis meeting in in April, which is phenomenal.
And one of the things you talk about is authorship for your nursing colleagues.
And so I want you to speak to that.
And I also want you to speak to as physicians, we don't necessarily have a lot of nurses
in our circles research wise, even though, of course, we're interacting with nurses clinically.
Where do you go to find a nurse who's trained in research who can be part of your study?
I bet there's more of them there than you think.
Right.
I like saying, well, I don't have anyone who's who's interested in.
I don't know.
I don't have anyone who's who's interested in the same band that I'm interested in.
Well, have you told you have you have you asked?
Right.
And then you find out that actually.
So do you know who Lindsey Stirling is?
OK, first off, got to look up Lindsey Stirling.
She is amazing.
And as a musician, she's just like changed my perspective of classical music.
But I'm like, yeah, nobody knows.
And so I was I when I do statistics, I always play music and I never I always use classical
because I don't want to sing the words while I'm writing code.
And I was playing that and somebody walked by and they go, oh, that's Lindsey Stirling.
You know, right.
And then I mentioned and it turns out a whole lot of people are into Lindsey Stirling.
But it's it's that whole thing where you we all think we're the outliers until you find
out like we're all outliers.
And so you may have PhD prepared nurses that you just haven't asked about or nurses who
are interested in research that you haven't asked about.
When I started the the Neuroscience Nursing Research Center here in Dallas.
They had they had done almost zero clinical research here with nursing.
I have had over two hundred and fifty nurses in 10 years do studies.
They all want to do it.
No.
And a lot of it is like, well, yeah, no one's ever asked.
That's like so.
Just ask, just ask and you shall find that's one in terms of authorship.
The the.
International guidelines, International Committee on Medical Journal Ethics and the Committee
on Publication Ethics all share basically that there are four criteria to meet authorship.
And if you meet those criteria, you should be an author.
And it boils down to did the person provide an intellectual contribution?
Now you can say no and that they didn't.
And you say, well, one of the things is, did they make critical revisions to the manuscript?
They did.
Well, did you show them the manuscript?
Did you give the manuscript to a nurse?
It's like.
You said you wrote here that all patients get out of bed on day one and they actually
don't write because because we know things and you may think they did, you know, or you
may think that you wrote an order and something happened.
Oh, it's too.
So so so they can make critical revisions, but also.
It's important to recognize and and and I'll tell you why it benefits you as a physician
to get a nurse as an author.
First off, it opens up a whole nother range of places you can publish your work, which
is important, but also.
It gives you it gives you that buy in.
Right.
I mean, that when you're when you're going to do another study again in the in I'm in
the ICU, wherever you happen to be, you're going to come into the ICU and say, hey, I
got this this thing we're going to do, everybody.
And the nurses are like, so you want us to do your work again and you're not going to
recognize us.
Yeah, sure.
We'll get on that right away.
Yeah.
But if you're but if but if you're like.
Dr. X, when she asked us to help, like she she rewards us, she includes us and she recognizes
our value.
Yeah, I am.
I am so into that.
And she's going to she's going to ask, like, how can I make this study better?
And we can we can solve problems together.
Like most nurses innately in our in our blood, in our DNA, in our training, we want to help.
So you know, that doesn't mean we shouldn't be recognized like you recognize for your
contribution.
And that's the authorship.
Absolutely.
I will tell you that recently I asked one of our nurses who's been working on a project
with me to be an author.
And it really to be honest, the response was overwhelming.
She was like, I mean, she was so excited, told her supervisor, I got to hear about it
from the supervisor.
And to be honest, she's just run off with the project.
It's like, oh, OK.
So it's it's it's been good.
I do agree.
I think anybody who's made any significant contribution really should be an author, whether
they're paid or not, they should be an author.
And so I appreciate that.
That's your perspective.
And I agree.
I think all physicians should think about that.
OK, I'm glad it worked out well.
Oh, yes.
Oh, my goodness.
Yes, I was actually thinking I was like, I should do this more often.
But I love what you said about inviting people because you just assume people are not interested.
But but but we should open the doors and see who comes in.
Yeah.
Look for someone who's not like you so you can get something different that you don't
already know.
And it's always a great journey.
Oh, I love that.
I love that.
Look for someone who's not like you so you can get something different.
Yes.
Yes, it's a diversity bonus.
I love it.
Yeah.
Diversity bonus.
But but also it keeps you out of the echo chain.
Right.
That's right.
And it's the echo chamber that ruins good science because you you should not do like
on many ways we get guilty of I'm going to design this study to prove I was right.
And those studies inevitably fail.
You have to design a study to ask a question.
And the echo chamber will kill you.
That's why you have to you have to get that that broad depth of perspective.
Absolutely.
So that people can question the interpretation and give you different perspectives on how
an interpretation you may not have thought of.
Yeah.
This is really good.
Okay.
You've talked about so many great things.
I'm coming to the end of the show, but I wanted to ask what what haven't I asked you what's
an important thing for our audience to know that that we haven't talked about yet.
Oh, I know.
We haven't talked about prividemics.
Private.
Yeah.
So private demics used to be a derogatory term.
I think we're academics.
Right.
You go through med school and you get your degree and then you have a choice.
You can go into academia or into private practice.
And it was it was almost you know it was almost like the Montagues and the Capulets.
Right.
You could be one or the other.
And and academics did research and prividemics didn't private practice didn't.
Well along comes our need to understand how research translates across multiple environments
of care.
And so academics back in the late 90s early 2000s started reaching out to private practice
and say hey will you be part of this study.
And private practice docs who are smart people.
And they're working in East Texas with a hospital you know a seven bed hospital.
They have questions too.
And it turns out that if smart people working in non academic centers ask good questions
they can still contribute to the overall body of knowledge in a way that me working in the
center of Dallas can't.
Right.
And that is a private practice academic.
And you can actually look in Medline and there are now articles written about private demics.
So do just because you are out in them in clinical practice or you are in an area hundreds
of miles away from a university setting that does not mean you cannot do research.
And it doesn't mean you can't do meaningful research because you have a different environment
different questions different patient population.
Right.
I had this.
I know you're running out of time.
I got fortunate.
I was asked to talk give a lecture on the Navajo reservation once and the docs there
they fly in for seven days and they treat anything and everything that comes into this
four bed hospital.
Right.
You might you might refill prescription for hypertension go deliver a baby take care of
a trauma patient and then advise somebody on mental health all within like an hour.
That is an environment of care.
I can't even conceive of being in a high resource area.
Who's going to do the research on that.
Who's going to figure out best practice for critical access hospitals if it's not a private
practice.
So so just because you're you if you can ask a question you can be a researcher.
I love it.
The door is open for everybody to participate.
You don't have to be in an academic medical center to do research.
You need to be able to ask good questions.
I love it.
Oh I love it.
That was a great great note to end on.
You know why you've just you just I mean it's just every time I hear from you I feel like
I'm inspired.
I learn new things and so I think it's my life's mission now to hear from you more.
Well I hope our paths cross much more often and I've enjoyed talking to you.
Now it's been my pleasure and I know my audience has enjoyed listening.
I would say to everyone who's listening this is a dynamite dynamite episode and someone
else has got to hear it.
If you're a mentor you need to share it with a mentee.
If you're a mentee you share it with your mentor your peer group and if you are in academia
you should share it with someone in private practice because they need to hear about private
ethics and how they can get involved as well.
And with your nurses.
And with your nurses yes every one of your studies from now on should include a nurse
as a co-investigator.
I love it.
Dai Wai thank you for being on the show.
Thank you.
All right everyone we'll see you again next time.
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Clinician Researcher podcast where academic
clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program whether or not they have
a mentor.
If you found the information in this episode to be helpful don't keep it all to yourself.
Someone else needs to hear it.
So take a minute right now and share it.
As you share this episode you become part of our mission to help launch a new generation
of clinician researchers who make transformative discoveries that change the way we do health
care.