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Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills

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to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.

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As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients.

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When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find

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that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research

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program.

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Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit.

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However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs.

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For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians

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the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.

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Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene.

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Hello everyone, welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast.

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I am your host, Toyosi Onwuemene.

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Today I'm talking about how to make a pivot in your research.

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How do you pivot?

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And the reason I want to talk to you about this today is because I've had to make a

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pivot and it's actually more common than you would recognize, and pivoting is okay.

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And before I start, I do want to share with you that we have a master class that's coming

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up and you are invited how to negotiate your first, next, or current academic job.

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We do negotiation master classes.

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Sign up on our website, clinicianresearcherpodcast.com, and you'll get information to sign up, and

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please be a part of that.

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All right, so I started my career working on somebody else's project, and most of us

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will do that.

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We don't have a research program that we're leading when we start, and it is always helpful

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to just do what somebody else is doing so that you can learn all the other pieces.

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And so it's not about the project you're doing when you first start, usually.

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It really is about all the things that you're getting.

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Well, so one of the projects I started working on when I first started was a project in heart

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transplant.

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And I will tell you, I'm a hematologist, and so heart transplantation is not...

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This is not part of our hematology trainings.

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Yes, if you Google me, if you PubMed me, you'll find my heart transplant rejection manuscript.

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There's really just one, for the most part.

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But the reason that I did it was because it was what was available to me, and it was like,

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well, this is a project that you can work on.

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And a mentor had recommended that to me, and so I went and I worked really hard on it.

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And I finally was able to publish one manuscript from it.

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But I submitted a lot of grants on this project, and every time a rejection would come through,

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it was so hard to start over.

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Because literally what would happen is I needed to submit a grant.

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So I would do this work.

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Then I put it all together.

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I submitted the grant, and then the work would stop.

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So I was like, yeah, I hope I get the grant, and then I'll keep doing the work.

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It wasn't work I wanted to do, whether the grant was funded or not.

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That can be a challenge.

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If it's not the work you really want to do, it's hard to sustain it.

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Because you're just doing it, and you're pulling out all your reserves to do the work.

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And in reality, you get rejected so much.

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This is work you need to keep moving forward, because you can't actually depend on other

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people to move you forward.

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You have to move yourself forward.

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Anyway, but I kept going in this area in which I was working.

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And finally, I attended a grant writing program.

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And this is a point at which I plug in Kemi's grant writing program.

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Get that grant.

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It's so awesome.

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And I finally learned that, hey, you don't have to do a project that you hate.

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You don't.

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You can do a project that you love, and still get all the things that you want.

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And I hear people saying, wait a minute, are you kidding me?

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This is all my mentor is doing, and this is my mentor.

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It's like the most funded person in all of the universe.

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I get it.

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I get it.

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This person is your ticket.

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It's your ticket to success.

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But when you hate the work you do, it is so hard to do.

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I mean, you can muster enough energy, because that's the thing about clinicians, right?

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We have done a lot of training.

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We know how to put in those night hours.

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We know how to stay up late.

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We have made a lot of sacrifices to make training work.

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And so for many of us, our training was not about, I love this so much.

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It was just about this needs to be done, suck it up, and get it done.

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And so because of that, this is kind of like the experience that we bring to life, the

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sense of suck it up and do what's needed.

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And the reality of sucking it up and doing what's needed is that you can only do it for

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a short period of time before you start to burn out on the sucking it up and get it done.

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And that is why love is one of the greatest forces in the universe.

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Yes, I am talking about love, loving the work you do.

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Because when you do it, you can just go the distance.

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When you love the project that you do, you can go the distance.

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You can go the distance.

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You're like, you rejected me, huh?

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Coming back again.

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I'm submitting it again.

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You rejected my paper.

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I'm going to do this again.

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Because you really enjoy the work you do.

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And so I will tell you that even though for many of us, we start out doing work that we

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don't love, it's okay.

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Now that we know better, we have an opportunity to pivot and do work we actually like.

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And so this is the positive pivot.

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This is the where I wake up and I'm like, you know what?

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I hate this particular project.

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I don't care for this.

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I don't care for heart transplant rejection.

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It's an important problem.

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Please solve the problem somebody, but not me.

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And the day you wake up and figure out that this is not the work you want to do, congratulations.

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What an opportunity to change direction.

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Now for some people, it's like, I just quit.

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I'm never going to do this again.

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No, don't quit.

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Please don't quit.

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And this is why we have Academic Negotiation Academy, because you don't have to quit.

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How can you keep the work you're doing and make it better?

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How can you negotiate something different from where you started?

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You don't have to quit.

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And if you're thinking of quitting right now, please reach out to me by DM.

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I'm on Facebook.

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I'm on Instagram.

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And just say, hey, I'm wanting to quit.

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Can we talk about it?

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Because you don't have to quit.

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What you do need to do is pivot.

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And sometimes pivoting requires negotiation.

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It's not part of our training.

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And that's why I coach clinicians on negotiating their careers, because it's something that's

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important for us to do so that we can have the careers we actually want and not the careers

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that other people have dreamed up for us that we hate.

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They don't know whether you hate it or you're like it.

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They just made a recommendation and you took and ran with it.

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The moment you wake up and you're like, yeah, that's not work I want to do.

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It's time to pivot.

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Don't quit.

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It's time to pivot.

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And it is important to do that.

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Or for some of you, you're like, ha, ha, too late.

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Everything broke down.

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Everything failed.

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And then I had to pivot.

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Like I had to.

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This wasn't even like I want to.

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It was I had to.

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And that's OK.

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Either way, it is important to pivot.

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And so I'm going to talk about ways to pivot and still land on your feet.

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So the first thing I want to talk about is the importance of recognizing the pitfalls

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of success.

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That sounds funny.

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The pitfalls of success.

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What?

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I only want to be successful.

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How can there be a pitfall to success?

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Well, there are pitfalls to success.

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And the specific pitfall I'm talking about is that the moment you start succeeding in

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research, then people start believing that's what you do.

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They're like, oh, heart transplant rejection?

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OK.

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And then they think about heart transplant rejection.

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They think about you because you're succeeding in this area.

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And the problem is if it's not work you actually want to do and you start succeeding in it,

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wow, you know what success does?

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Success breeds more success.

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You succeed once.

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You've increased your chances of succeeding again.

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And that's usually a good thing, except when you're in the space you don't want to be.

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And so I don't want to be here, but now I'm succeeding in this space.

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I'm creating more of what I hate.

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Oh, not good.

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And so it's important when you start thinking early on about developing a research project

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or working with a mentor to develop a research project, be very clear about what you're getting

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out of the project.

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It is a problem for many of us clinicians who are like, we get to a mentor and we're

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like, just save me.

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Save me.

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I have no idea what I'm doing.

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Just help me.

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And they're like, oh, great.

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I have these three projects.

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Which one do you choose?

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And you choose one.

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And none of these projects is a project you really care about.

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You're just like, just save me.

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I want to publish manuscripts.

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Please give me a project.

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But it is important to recognize that you're going to start succeeding because as a clinician,

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that's what you do.

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If you've come this far, you're a success.

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You know how to be a success.

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They tell you what the metrics are.

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You go do it.

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You kill yourself in the process.

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You like stop sleeping.

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You stop eating.

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You stop drinking to make it work.

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You're good at this.

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It's not even always good.

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You're good at succeeding.

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And so the moment you take a project and you just take it because someone gave it to you,

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not because you care about it, you're going to start succeeding.

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And then all of a sudden, you're going to get to a place where people are going to be

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like, well, this is what you do.

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Or you're going to be like, well, this is not really what I want.

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I just started this in fellowship just to do it.

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This is where I really want to go.

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And they're like, no, no.

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You published a lot of papers in this area.

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This must be where you fit.

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And then all of a sudden, you struggle.

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You struggle to move to the next area because people are like, well, this is how we see

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you.

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This is where you've been succeeding.

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This is what you've been doing.

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And the reason you recognize the pitfalls of success, the success leading to success syndrome,

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is that you want to start where you actually want to be successful.

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And that's why it's important to clarify for yourself what that starting point is.

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For example, let's say I am a hematologist and I don't want to do breast cancer research.

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But you know what?

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The mentor available to me, if it's a breast cancer researcher, what do I do?

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Do I quit my hematology aspirations and then pursue breast cancer?

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No, I do not.

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What I do is I define for myself, what is it within this breast cancer research program

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that leads me to hematology?

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I'm very focused on hematology.

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And I know I'm being very broad with hematology, but let's just stay with me here.

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Nobody has a research program in hematology.

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You have to be more focused than that.

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But let's say I'm on my way to hematology and working with a breast cancer researcher.

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I might be doing a project that's in breast cancer, but don't get me wrong, I'm not here

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for the breast cancer outcome.

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I'm here for the hematology outcome.

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And so I'm always thinking and crafting my projects.

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Like what is the hematology aspect of this breast cancer project that I can bring so

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that at the end I'm taking hematology out of this project?

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It's not breast cancer.

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It's really important because when you start to succeed, you want to succeed in an area

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in which you can carry forward.

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If your mentor is now like, oh yeah, I recognize that you're really interested in thrombocytopenia

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in patients undergoing breast cancer therapy, but the project I have is really about how

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does the tumor respond to therapy?

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Will you take it?

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Because I know what I want.

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Because I know that the piece of this breast cancer project that makes sense to me is a

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thrombocytopenia piece, I'm going to say no.

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Give me another project or help me develop a project that allows you to understand tumor

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response while I still figure out something hematologic.

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And if that cannot happen, then I have to think about is this the right mentor for me?

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And this is so important.

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You start with your why.

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You start with where you're going and then you make the decision surrounding the mentor.

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You don't let your mentor tell you where you're going.

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The mentors are awesome.

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Please kudos to all the mentors out there.

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Thank you for your work.

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Thank you for what you do.

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But the mentor is not the one to tell you who you are or where you're going.

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You tell your mentor where you want to go and then they help you figure out how within

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the context of what they're doing, they can help you get there.

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So that when I start succeeding in this breast cancer space, I'm not succeeding as a breast

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cancer dog.

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I'm succeeding as a hematologist within the breast cancer space.

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I'm leaving breast cancer.

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That's very clear to me.

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So let's not get confused.

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I'm leaving this breast cancer space because I'm on my way to hematology.

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And that's why it allows me to be very clear about what successes I want to create here

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so I don't get stuck.

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And you're never really stuck.

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But you can get stuck because the moment you start, you know, as a hematologist, now you're

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like, oh, well, I guess the only project here in this highly successful lab is the breast

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cancer tumor response.

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I'll just do that project for today.

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You're veering away from where you really want to be.

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It's not what you want to do.

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You're going to start succeeding in it.

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And then you're going to breed more success.

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You're going to find yourself 20 years from now, three R01s later asking yourself, why

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am I here?

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Don't be that person.

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Recognize the pitfalls of success and still start in the area in which you actually want

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to succeed.

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And if that area is not immediately available to you, figure out how you can use what you

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have in front of you to create what you really want and make it clear what you're getting

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out of that so that you can take it at the end and be successful in it towards the path

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you really want to go on.

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So recognize pitfalls of success and the fact that if you've been successful in the past,

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there's an expectation you're going to be successful in that same way.

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And it's OK.

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You can overcome it.

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Just recognize.

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So if you have the opportunity to start well, you do it.

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You do it.

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Don't be like people like me who, like three, four years later, were like, well, this heart

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transplant thing's not really what I want to do.

289
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Now can we pivot?

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OK.

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That's number one.

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Recognize the pitfalls of success.

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Number two, decide to do hard things only if they're worth it.

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OK.

295
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So sometimes people say, oh, I want to do research.

296
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It's so much easier than clinical.

297
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OK.

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Research is not easy.

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It is hard.

300
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And it may be harder than clinical work in some ways and easier than clinical work in

301
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some ways.

302
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But it is hard.

303
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It is hard to write manuscript after manuscript after manuscript and get rejection after rejection

304
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after rejection.

305
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It is hard to do work over the course of a year.

306
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And all you have to show for it is an abstract that people didn't even accept.

307
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It is hard to do research.

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That's why it is a full-time job.

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It's not a part-time activity.

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And so if you come to research and you're like, I'm going to do this, you're about to

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enter into a season of hard work.

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If you're trying to ramp up a research program, if you're trying to get people to be part

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of the research program that you're going to lead, it's going to be really hard.

314
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You're going to be working hard negotiating for resources, sometimes working with resources

315
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that don't help you move forward in the way you need to, struggling sometimes over who's

316
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first author on this manuscript.

317
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It is a hard space.

318
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There's a lot of rejection here.

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So if you're going to do something hard, choose to do it only if it's worth it.

320
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So the moment you are starting out, figure out that, hey, this is going to be hard.

321
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What do I care about enough that even though it's hard, I still want to do it?

322
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And this is applicable whether you have to pivot because you're forced to, or you decide

323
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to pivot, or you're just starting.

324
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But whatever you're going to do is going to be hard, and that's why you only want to do

325
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the hard things that are worth it.

326
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Please, only do hard things that are worth it.

327
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You're going to make a decision that this is going to be a hard path, no matter what

328
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I choose, and I go after it if it's worth it.

329
00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:50,200
And that, again, goes back to don't make the decision because there's a mentor in the field.

330
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Like, there is no other mentor in the world but this one, therefore I'm going to go into

331
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what exactly what they're doing.

332
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I'm going to do receptor signaling because this is it.

333
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It's going to be a hard path.

334
00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:07,720
Recognize that up front and choose it if that's what you want and if it's going to be worth

335
00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:10,120
the labor that you're going to put into it.

336
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Because at the end, you're going to birth a baby.

337
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Is it the baby you want?

338
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Okay, number two is decide to do hard things only if they're worth it.

339
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Number three is to have a heart to heart with yourself.

340
00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:31,920
And I think this is important because it is hard for us in medicine to know what we want.

341
00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:36,520
For the longest time, throughout our training, we're just on autopilot.

342
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Somebody says, hey, this is the medical school curriculum.

343
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And most of us don't argue with that.

344
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We're like, okay, let's go medical school curriculum.

345
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Maybe you have electives and you're like, okay, at least I get to choose what electives

346
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I do.

347
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But for the most part, there's a lot of just doing whatever is in front of you.

348
00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:58,800
And so you do whatever is in front of you and then you get to residency and they're

349
00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:00,680
like, well, these are the competencies you need to graduate.

350
00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:03,160
These are the rotations we've already scheduled for you.

351
00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:05,880
Okay, you can have an elective or two in there.

352
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Go for it.

353
00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:10,840
And so by the time you get to the end of your training, if you've been well trained, you

354
00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:13,280
are used to going with the flow.

355
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You're used to going with whatever you're told.

356
00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:22,620
And if you're really going to succeed in your pivot, whether you're just starting, is really

357
00:18:22,620 --> 00:18:23,620
hard to do.

358
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Have a heart to heart with yourself.

359
00:18:24,620 --> 00:18:25,620
What do you want?

360
00:18:25,620 --> 00:18:26,620
What do you want?

361
00:18:26,620 --> 00:18:31,240
And I have to tell you that that is one of the hardest questions for clinicians to answer.

362
00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:34,560
Sometimes, especially when people at the end of their training and just at the beginning

363
00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:39,120
of their faculty careers, I hear things like, I just want a job, a real job that pays real

364
00:18:39,120 --> 00:18:40,120
money.

365
00:18:40,120 --> 00:18:41,120
And that's great.

366
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And you deserve that.

367
00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:45,400
And congratulations if you're already there.

368
00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:50,840
But goodness, I hope there's more to your life than just a job that pays you money.

369
00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:51,840
What do you want?

370
00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:56,280
What do you really want to contribute?

371
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Where do you want to really invest your life?

372
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That's what you're doing.

373
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You're investing life energy.

374
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Where do you want to invest your life?

375
00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:14,960
And it's important for you to be very clear about what that looks like so that when you

376
00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:21,560
are making a pivot or even just starting afresh, you know that this is where I want to be.

377
00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:24,120
Because it helps you to get creative.

378
00:19:24,120 --> 00:19:25,120
It's like, this is where I want to be.

379
00:19:25,120 --> 00:19:26,120
This is a hard space.

380
00:19:26,120 --> 00:19:28,280
It's going to be hard to succeed in some ways.

381
00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:30,040
But is this really what I want to do?

382
00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:32,000
And how can I make it work?

383
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:36,720
When we are very clear about where we want to go and what's important to us, and there's

384
00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:39,400
really no mountain high enough, we're going to get there.

385
00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:40,400
We're going to climb it.

386
00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:41,580
We're going to get to the top of it.

387
00:19:41,580 --> 00:19:45,080
We're good at doing that for the things we don't even like.

388
00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:50,600
And so if we've been able over the course of our careers to service dreams that are

389
00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:55,400
not ours, then what about our own dreams that we really have?

390
00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:59,080
And that's why it's important to work with a coach.

391
00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:01,840
And maybe it's not a formal coach.

392
00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:07,320
Maybe it's a friend who really gets you and has a lot of hours to spend investing and

393
00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:11,600
helping you get to the place where you are very clear about what you want to do, how

394
00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:16,060
you want to contribute, how in 20, 40 years from now you're going to look back on your

395
00:20:16,060 --> 00:20:21,080
career and say, that was well worth the investment.

396
00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:25,280
You want to make sure that at the end of your career, you can really be like, that was good.

397
00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:27,800
I made a good investment.

398
00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:31,000
And to be honest, on the flip side of that is people who are like, oh, I wasted so much

399
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:32,000
time.

400
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:33,440
I can't believe I wasted all that time.

401
00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:36,400
You don't want to be that person.

402
00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:41,360
And so part of pivoting, a part of really moving in the area in the direction you want

403
00:20:41,360 --> 00:20:48,760
to and maybe even starting there is really being very clear about who you are, what you

404
00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:52,200
want to do, how you want to contribute.

405
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:57,280
And so you want to have a heart to heart with yourself and really pull out what are the

406
00:20:57,280 --> 00:20:58,280
things you enjoy?

407
00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:01,320
What are the things that matter to you?

408
00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:04,640
And honestly, that does change from season to season.

409
00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:08,880
Have a heart to heart with yourself and recognize that as the seasons of your life change, the

410
00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:10,680
things you want change.

411
00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:15,880
And so it changes the course of how you lead your research career.

412
00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:16,880
And it's okay.

413
00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:20,520
And that's why negotiation is an important skill.

414
00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:25,800
And that's why we teach negotiation skills to clinicians in our academic negotiation

415
00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:31,800
academy because as life changes, you got to change with it.

416
00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:36,580
And yes, the job you negotiated seven years ago was an awesome job for the person that

417
00:21:36,580 --> 00:21:38,080
you were seven years ago.

418
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:42,480
But what does that job need to look like today?

419
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:47,960
And those are ongoing micro negotiations that do need to happen so that you continue to

420
00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:52,240
align your career with your life, not the other way around.

421
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:56,120
So have a heart to heart with yourself, figure out exactly what you want.

422
00:21:56,120 --> 00:22:00,960
And if you can't do it on your own, work with someone who can help you do that.

423
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:02,680
Step number four is to commit to your dreams.

424
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:04,680
Hey, what do you want to do?

425
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:10,160
20, 40, 30, 50 years from now, how do you want to be remembered?

426
00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:14,840
How do you want to have felt like you contributed?

427
00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:20,700
If you imagine your obituary, maybe even write it, what will people have said about the involvement

428
00:22:20,700 --> 00:22:21,800
you had in research?

429
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:23,840
What came out of that?

430
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:25,160
And then commit to your dreams.

431
00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:26,600
It's like, this is what I want to do.

432
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:27,600
I'm committing.

433
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:31,560
And it's so awesome to be able to commit to your dreams because you've committed so many

434
00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:34,760
times to other people's dreams and you've committed to other things that people have

435
00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:35,760
had for you.

436
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:39,880
But what a great opportunity to commit to your own dreams to say, well, this is the

437
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:42,200
dream I have for myself in research.

438
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:47,000
I want to lead a research program that doesn't just answer important problems, but that becomes

439
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:49,520
a stepping stone for other people's careers.

440
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:53,800
I want to lead a research program that helps other clinicians to make that transition from

441
00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:55,960
clinician to clinician researcher.

442
00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:59,360
I want to lead a research program that changes the way we do patient care.

443
00:22:59,360 --> 00:23:04,400
I want to lead a research program that just changes paradigms and shifts the way things

444
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:05,400
are.

445
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,760
That is my dream.

446
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:10,240
And I'm committed to it.

447
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:15,660
And part of being a clinician researcher is the fulfillment of that dream.

448
00:23:15,660 --> 00:23:18,200
Not here to play.

449
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:20,840
Not here to do somebody else's dream.

450
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:24,720
But it's hard work.

451
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:30,520
And it takes commitment to make that hard work happen.

452
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:32,680
Because some days you're not going to want to go to work.

453
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,680
And some days you're going to not accept that rejection.

454
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:40,320
And some days you're going to be shocked that anybody would reject this amazing manuscript

455
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,920
that you spent half of your life writing.

456
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:45,200
But you commit to your dreams.

457
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,240
And because you know, because you're clear about what your dreams are as a clinician

458
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,120
researcher, then you pursue it.

459
00:23:51,120 --> 00:23:52,760
You don't take no for an answer.

460
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:54,400
You never take no for an answer.

461
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:55,400
They reject the grant.

462
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:59,960
You say, OK, how do I come back with a grant that's changed and transformed so it can be

463
00:23:59,960 --> 00:24:00,960
accepted?

464
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:02,240
Or who do I find?

465
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:05,400
Who's going to fund this work?

466
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:09,640
Committing to your dream allows you to keep moving forward in the face of rejection, in

467
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:14,140
the face of people saying this is a silly project, to asking how?

468
00:24:14,140 --> 00:24:18,380
How do I make my dream happen?

469
00:24:18,380 --> 00:24:20,380
Commit to your dreams.

470
00:24:20,380 --> 00:24:24,000
And yes, I am talking about your clinician researcher career.

471
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:28,400
You have dreams for what you want to come out of that.

472
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:32,240
Have the dreams, own the dreams, and then commit to the dream.

473
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:36,480
And sometimes it will be hard, but your commitment will get you through.

474
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:39,600
OK, number five.

475
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:42,400
Take baby steps in the direction you want to go.

476
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:47,280
So you know what, in medicine and medical training, we do things big.

477
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:48,820
You were going to med school.

478
00:24:48,820 --> 00:24:51,520
You went all in to pull off this med school thing.

479
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:58,720
You in residency went all in to take the call, to do the overnight shifts.

480
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:00,880
You go all in.

481
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:05,120
So sometimes when it comes to clinician researcher transition, the transition from clinician

482
00:25:05,120 --> 00:25:08,440
to researcher, we want to go all in too, and we should.

483
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:10,440
But sometimes we can't.

484
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,360
Sometimes all we can do is take baby steps.

485
00:25:13,360 --> 00:25:20,400
And it is important to take those baby steps, because baby steps, they, over time, come

486
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:25,440
together to make a lot of steps in the direction you want to go.

487
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,760
And so if you're pivoting, it's like, well, I've been doing this thing for a long, long,

488
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:33,120
long time, and now I'm changing direction.

489
00:25:33,120 --> 00:25:34,120
You want to go all in.

490
00:25:34,120 --> 00:25:37,600
You want to quit all together.

491
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:39,400
Sometimes you just start with one baby step.

492
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:41,400
It's like, that's the direction I want to go in.

493
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:42,440
You start.

494
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:47,560
And over time, those baby steps start to compound into huge steps because you've been taking

495
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:50,100
baby steps all along.

496
00:25:50,100 --> 00:25:51,880
So it isn't easy to pivot.

497
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:54,320
It isn't easy to go in the direction you want to go.

498
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:58,920
It's not easy to say to the mentor you've had for the last seven years, hey, this is

499
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,080
not really the project I want to do.

500
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,320
Here's how I want to take it and shape it.

501
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:07,080
The key is to keep moving in the direction.

502
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:08,680
So maybe you can't take baby steps.

503
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:10,080
Now you just roll.

504
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:12,840
You roll in the direction you want to go.

505
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:17,600
But the important thing is to start and to start going in the direction you actually

506
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:18,600
want to go in.

507
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:23,040
And yes, it'll be challenging, but it'll be the direction you want to go in.

508
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:28,560
You'll bring a different energy to your work than you've had before.

509
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:32,560
And I encourage you to come into this space.

510
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:37,280
And so to recap, number one, recognize the pitfalls of success.

511
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,680
Choose only to be successful in the thing you actually want to do.

512
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:42,760
Recognize the pitfalls of success.

513
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:46,360
Number two, decide to do hard things only if they're worth it.

514
00:26:46,360 --> 00:26:47,360
This is a hard journey.

515
00:26:47,360 --> 00:26:49,240
You're going to be doing a lot of hard things.

516
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,560
Make sure you're only doing hard things if they are worth it.

517
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:56,040
Number three, have a heart to heart with yourself.

518
00:26:56,040 --> 00:27:00,800
Make sure that you are clear about the direction you want to go.

519
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:02,240
Clarify your dreams.

520
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,720
Clarify how you get there.

521
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:06,840
And number four, commit to those dreams.

522
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:07,840
Commit.

523
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:09,280
You're going to have to make a commitment.

524
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:11,360
This is hard work.

525
00:27:11,360 --> 00:27:13,320
And number five, take baby steps.

526
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,200
Take baby steps in the direction you want to go.

527
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,280
Make sure it's the direction you want to go.

528
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:21,760
And then take baby steps in that direction.

529
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:22,760
All right.

530
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:24,040
It has been a pleasure talking with you today.

531
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:27,440
If this episode has been helpful to you, if you know someone who's making a pivot and

532
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:29,720
needs to hear this, please share.

533
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:33,880
If you're a mentor and you're like, my mentee needs to hear this, please share.

534
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:38,240
And if you're like, I want to learn to negotiate my academic career, you should join us in

535
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:40,200
our upcoming class.

536
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:44,240
Negotiate your first, next, or current academic job.

537
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:46,680
That's happening on August 21st.

538
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:48,160
So definitely please join us.

539
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:49,160
All right.

540
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:51,840
It's been a pleasure talking with you today.

541
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:56,080
Go forth and prosper, thou clinician researcher.

542
00:27:56,080 --> 00:28:05,400
Take care.

543
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:10,760
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Clinician Researcher Podcast, where academic

544
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:16,480
clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program, whether or not they

545
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:17,560
have a mentor.

546
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:23,640
If you found the information in this episode to be helpful, don't keep it all to yourself.

547
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:25,400
Someone else needs to hear it.

548
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:29,440
So take a minute right now and share it.

549
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:34,920
As you share this episode, you become part of our mission to help launch a new generation

550
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:40,880
of clinician researchers who make transformative discoveries that change the way we do healthcare.