1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,860
Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills

2
00:00:05,860 --> 00:00:11,260
to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.

3
00:00:11,260 --> 00:00:17,340
As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients.

4
00:00:17,340 --> 00:00:22,380
When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find

5
00:00:22,380 --> 00:00:27,780
that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research

6
00:00:27,780 --> 00:00:29,200
program.

7
00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:35,480
Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit.

8
00:00:35,480 --> 00:00:40,580
However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs.

9
00:00:40,580 --> 00:00:46,200
For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians

10
00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:51,800
the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.

11
00:00:51,800 --> 00:01:01,060
Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene.

12
00:01:01,060 --> 00:01:04,680
Welcome to today's episode of the Clinician Researcher podcast.

13
00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:06,560
Thank you for tuning in today.

14
00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:11,920
I'm your host Toyosi Onwuemene, and it is an absolute pleasure for me to be talking with

15
00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:12,920
you today.

16
00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:19,520
All right, I'm talking about why chasing research money could be hurting you.

17
00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:23,000
Why chasing research money could be hurting you.

18
00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:28,920
And before I start, I want to remind you that Academic Negotiation Academy is open to enrollment.

19
00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:34,900
I would love to be your coach to show you how to negotiate your academic career.

20
00:01:34,900 --> 00:01:41,080
If you are interested, please sign up on our website for the waiting list at clinicianresearcherpodcast.com.

21
00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:42,640
I look forward to seeing you.

22
00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:48,980
Okay, so today we're talking about why chasing research money could hurt you.

23
00:01:48,980 --> 00:01:49,980
And I hear you saying, what?

24
00:01:49,980 --> 00:01:51,360
What do you mean chasing money?

25
00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:52,540
That couldn't hurt me.

26
00:01:52,540 --> 00:01:56,320
I would be so honored to have so much money to fund my research program.

27
00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:58,760
And yes, that is correct.

28
00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:01,820
Money is what helps our research programs move forward.

29
00:02:01,820 --> 00:02:03,080
It's what helps us hire.

30
00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:05,240
It's what helps us do the work.

31
00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:10,180
But why chasing the money could hurt you is something I'm going to talk to you about today.

32
00:02:10,180 --> 00:02:16,040
So when I first started in research, especially as a faculty member, one of the conversations

33
00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:19,000
that would come up was that, well, this is not what NIH is funding right now.

34
00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:20,200
This is what NIH is funding.

35
00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:22,240
So this is what you should be doing.

36
00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:23,560
And then I would say, okay, great.

37
00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,840
So I need to go out and write a proposal that NIH will fund.

38
00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:31,960
And then keep looking at other proposals that NIH has funded and work really hard to kind

39
00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:35,800
of recreate the proposal and submit that.

40
00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:40,320
And to be honest, I didn't do very well with many of these proposals that I submitted.

41
00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:44,720
And it just was so frustrating because sometimes they would change direction.

42
00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:46,680
For example, COVID happened.

43
00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:51,600
And with COVID, all of a sudden, all the research monies were going to people doing COVID.

44
00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:56,280
And then everybody changed direction and was doing COVID research.

45
00:02:56,280 --> 00:03:01,000
And then came more money going into health disparities type work.

46
00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:03,800
And then all of a sudden, everyone was doing health disparities type work.

47
00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:08,140
At least the conversations were around, well, how do we put a health disparities focus on

48
00:03:08,140 --> 00:03:10,720
our research so we can get funded?

49
00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:16,400
And I think I realized really over time that although other people could succeed with that

50
00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:19,800
strategy, that was not going to be my strategy.

51
00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:23,920
And it really is the story for me of the tortoise and the hare.

52
00:03:23,920 --> 00:03:31,160
So the hare is fast and can pivot every few minutes and move in a different direction.

53
00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:36,640
And as the tortoise, you're just kind of slow and you're plodding along, but you're making

54
00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:37,640
progress.

55
00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:40,760
And at the end of the day, the tortoise will always win.

56
00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:44,400
I mean, in the story, clearly the tortoise is the one winning.

57
00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:48,320
You could reshape the story and stop the hare from sleeping so that the hare can win.

58
00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:53,520
But at the end of the day, if you are making slow steady progress in one direction, you

59
00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:56,840
greatly increase the chances that you're going to get there.

60
00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:02,560
And so I want to talk to you about what to consider before you start chasing money.

61
00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:04,840
At the end of the day, you're trying to fund your research program.

62
00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:06,800
And to be honest, you're not really discriminatory.

63
00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:12,160
You're like, look, whoever will give me money, I will take.

64
00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:14,160
And so you're like, let's not be naive here.

65
00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:15,760
I need money for my research program.

66
00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:19,800
So I will take the money and I will chase whatever money is available.

67
00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:22,440
But I do want to say please do what you need to do.

68
00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:23,840
I'm not here to stop you.

69
00:04:23,840 --> 00:04:27,400
Please succeed in whatever way rings true to you.

70
00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:31,160
But I do want to talk to you about what to consider before you start chasing money.

71
00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:35,480
And I have six things today that I'm asking you to consider before you start chasing money.

72
00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:40,000
And by chasing money, I mean as soon as a call for proposals comes out, you are trying

73
00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:44,800
to see how can you shape your research to fit the call for proposals because, hey, that's

74
00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:46,280
where the money is now.

75
00:04:46,280 --> 00:04:47,280
OK.

76
00:04:47,280 --> 00:04:51,760
So I want to first start by saying that you should consider that chasing research money

77
00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:54,360
is actually a strategy that can be wildly successful.

78
00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:56,880
Oh, it can be so successful.

79
00:04:56,880 --> 00:05:01,840
Because if you can make a case for why you should get this new pot of money to support

80
00:05:01,840 --> 00:05:07,280
this new research paradigm or this new direction, you're gold.

81
00:05:07,280 --> 00:05:09,640
You increase the chances that you get that pot of money.

82
00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:13,600
And many of the times when there's like this change in direction and this new infusion

83
00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:16,400
into this new research area, that's a lot of money going in.

84
00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:20,480
There was so much money for COVID at the beginning of the pandemic.

85
00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:23,760
And then when there was a focus on health disparities, so much money started pouring

86
00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:25,280
in.

87
00:05:25,280 --> 00:05:27,600
And the reality is that there's enough money in there.

88
00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:32,880
If you can kind of twist and turn and make it work, you can be wildly successful.

89
00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:40,920
And as I've talked about in a prior episode, wild success is possible without true joy.

90
00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:43,400
And wild success can be a pitfall.

91
00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:45,520
So you don't even care about COVID research.

92
00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:48,820
But all of a sudden, because there's money there, you just like repurpose everything

93
00:05:48,820 --> 00:05:52,920
you're doing, change everybody's direction, put them on this COVID project.

94
00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:58,600
And then when the money runs out for the COVID, you are still left wildly successful in your

95
00:05:58,600 --> 00:05:59,600
COVID projects.

96
00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:00,920
And then what do you do?

97
00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:02,840
COVID is not what you really wanted to do.

98
00:06:02,840 --> 00:06:04,840
But now you've succeeded in it.

99
00:06:04,840 --> 00:06:08,040
And now you actually kind of are stuck in your success.

100
00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:10,980
You're needing to continue to move these projects forward.

101
00:06:10,980 --> 00:06:14,520
And it's fine if you're saying it affects us diseases and COVID is something that you've

102
00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:17,500
been so interested in all this time.

103
00:06:17,500 --> 00:06:21,880
Not so hot if you know you couldn't really care less about COVID research, except that

104
00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:24,440
there was money there and you went for it.

105
00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:28,960
And so consider that you could become wildly successful.

106
00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:32,140
And is this the thing in which you want to become successful?

107
00:06:32,140 --> 00:06:36,200
And is this the thing in which you want to continue to propagate success?

108
00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:40,080
And so if the answer is yes, yes, yes, good for you.

109
00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:43,080
Please go chasing that pot of money.

110
00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:49,760
But if you're just pivoting, and that's not really your interest, don't do it.

111
00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:51,880
Stay true to yourself.

112
00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:54,520
But consider that if you chase money, you can win.

113
00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:55,520
You can win big.

114
00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:58,320
But is that the way in which you want to win big?

115
00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:01,680
And are you going to want to continue that path over time?

116
00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:02,680
Something to consider.

117
00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:03,680
Okay.

118
00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:12,120
Number two is that chasing money as your primary strategy leaves you at the mercy of the funders.

119
00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:15,200
And yes, funders have the money.

120
00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:20,040
And so they're very big, very powerful, very amazing and important group of people.

121
00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:22,280
The funders have the money.

122
00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:26,600
But when you start chasing research money, you are at the mercy of the funders and at

123
00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:27,760
their wimps.

124
00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:29,960
Funders kind of change their minds.

125
00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:34,160
Today this is an important priority for them and they may change direction a couple of

126
00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:37,360
years from now and say, no, this is no longer our priority.

127
00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:42,880
And then what do you do when your major funder changes priorities?

128
00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:47,280
Then you kind of have to change priorities too, because now you're like, well, I started

129
00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:50,040
this line of work because you were supporting me.

130
00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:52,480
And now you're telling me there's no more money for this?

131
00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:54,040
What am I going to do?

132
00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:57,480
And so in a way, you're at the mercy of the funders to determine what your research program

133
00:07:57,480 --> 00:07:58,480
should be.

134
00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:03,440
But ultimately, you are the one in charge of your research.

135
00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:08,560
You're the one leading your research program and nobody gets to lead your program except

136
00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:09,560
you.

137
00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:13,400
And even though the funders have the money, they're not in charge of setting the direction

138
00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:14,860
for your research program.

139
00:08:14,860 --> 00:08:16,080
You are.

140
00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:20,800
And so when you kind of chase research money and chase funders, sometimes you lose your

141
00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:24,160
way because it's like, wait, what is the essence of your program?

142
00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:26,440
What is the problem you've come to solve?

143
00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:31,120
And if every few years you make a pivot and you're shifting towards some other direction

144
00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:35,320
because maybe there's more money in it, it's like, so who's driving your research program?

145
00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:37,560
Who's the real leader here?

146
00:08:37,560 --> 00:08:43,480
And I think what it can do is take you away from your primary responsibility as the leader

147
00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:44,920
of your program.

148
00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:49,720
So chasing research money can leave you at the mercy of the funders.

149
00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:55,760
And sometimes it can call into question who's really leading your program.

150
00:08:55,760 --> 00:09:02,200
Number three is that chasing research money is a sad way to lead your research career.

151
00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:06,980
Now, if you've listened to any of my past episodes, you know that I'm always big on

152
00:09:06,980 --> 00:09:08,760
starting with why.

153
00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:10,340
Why are you doing this?

154
00:09:10,340 --> 00:09:12,840
What is the point of your research program?

155
00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:13,960
Where are you going with it?

156
00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:15,960
Who's going to benefit from it?

157
00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:20,480
When you look back on your career 40 years from now, what are you going to say about

158
00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:21,480
it?

159
00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:24,440
What will be the things that bring you joy?

160
00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:30,420
And if all you can say when you look back is that I got a boatload of money, I was very

161
00:09:30,420 --> 00:09:37,040
wildly successful, and you cannot be clear about the body of work that you succeeded

162
00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:42,360
in, or how it resonated with you, how it helped you fulfill purpose.

163
00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,720
And I think I would argue that that will be so empty.

164
00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:51,040
And so chasing research money is kind of a sad way to lead your research career because

165
00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:59,000
it means kind of money as your leader rather than it serving you in support of your purpose.

166
00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:01,440
And it's great to be resourced.

167
00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:03,200
It's great to have so much funding.

168
00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:05,200
It's so awesome.

169
00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:08,560
What primary purpose does it serve?

170
00:10:08,560 --> 00:10:14,840
And so as you are working towards resourcing your research program, make sure that you

171
00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:21,840
are actually stepping up and leading and ensuring that you really are moving forward your purpose

172
00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:26,800
in a way that you can be proud of 30, 40, 50 years from now.

173
00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:30,760
Okay, so don't chase research money.

174
00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:33,640
It's a sad way to lead your research career.

175
00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:41,180
Number four is that research money is a great servant, but it's a horrible master.

176
00:10:41,180 --> 00:10:46,760
Because the moment you make an argument for a research proposal and it's funded, you're

177
00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:49,760
kind of committed to doing the work.

178
00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:54,600
And there are many schools of thought as to whether the work was already done before you

179
00:10:54,600 --> 00:11:00,000
submitted the research proposal, but in reality, when you get funded, you're obligated to the

180
00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:02,800
work that you said you're going to do.

181
00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:06,040
And sometimes there's a school of thought that you're like, no, once you get the money,

182
00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:09,920
you can do what you want with it and you can't.

183
00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:13,360
You really are obligated to do the work.

184
00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:18,800
And yes, things change and sometimes a certain direction that you thought you would go in

185
00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:21,040
changes and you're pivoting your research.

186
00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:24,480
And as long as you're open and honest about that, it's okay.

187
00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:31,120
But it is important to recognize that the research money that you get really is to fund

188
00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,880
your program, is to help you get to a destination.

189
00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:41,000
And so allowing yourself to kind of set the direction for the research money is helpful

190
00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:43,240
rather than chasing the research money around.

191
00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:47,640
Because money is a great servant and it's not a great master.

192
00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:53,080
So it helps you serve purpose and helps you go and do amazing things and have amazing

193
00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:54,440
impact.

194
00:11:54,440 --> 00:12:01,120
But it's not a great master because what happens when we are prioritizing research money is

195
00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:06,400
that we start to go all out to make it work.

196
00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:12,600
And we sometimes start to bend the rules and start to do things that might not be ethically

197
00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:15,440
acceptable just in the service of the money.

198
00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:18,880
It's like, no, getting this money is so important.

199
00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:22,920
And then all of a sudden you start to create an environment of pressure around yourself.

200
00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:27,680
And even without speaking or without even directly communicating that to people on your

201
00:12:27,680 --> 00:12:33,840
team, when they see that you are so big on the money and they start to focus just on

202
00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:38,240
the money and then they leave their ethics behind as they're kind of trying to satisfy

203
00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:43,160
this desire that you've expressed, whether explicitly or implicitly.

204
00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:47,000
And then all of a sudden you can see a lot of pressure in your program and people start

205
00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:49,920
to kind of bend the truth to their whim.

206
00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:56,000
And that's where some kind of missteps can happen and some bad things can come out of

207
00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:57,000
that.

208
00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,000
And so it's important just to go back to the basics.

209
00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:00,400
Like, why are we here?

210
00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:02,360
Why does this money serve the program?

211
00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:04,280
We don't have to get money at all costs.

212
00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:06,720
We don't have to bend the truth to get money.

213
00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:12,520
And just making sure that you're really building a culture of integrity and building a culture

214
00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:17,320
of clarity and purpose and mission.

215
00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:18,320
You want to do that.

216
00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:23,640
And you don't want to ever create an environment in which it's like, well, just get the money

217
00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:26,660
at all costs and let's figure out the rest later.

218
00:13:26,660 --> 00:13:29,240
Because it's not going to be a culture that's sustainable.

219
00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:31,800
It's not going to be a culture that you enjoy.

220
00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:34,560
And the people around you are not going to enjoy that culture either.

221
00:13:34,560 --> 00:13:40,440
So don't let chasing money be something you do because really you start to serve the money

222
00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:45,160
itself instead of serving the purpose that gives the money work to do.

223
00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:51,680
And you create a culture that can be toxic to good work being done and can come back

224
00:13:51,680 --> 00:13:54,560
and hurt you years, years down the road.

225
00:13:54,560 --> 00:13:56,200
All right.

226
00:13:56,200 --> 00:14:00,520
Number five, instead of chasing money, start with why.

227
00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:04,400
Start with why is something that's kind of like a theme of every podcast episode.

228
00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:08,860
You know, it is important to have money to fund your research program.

229
00:14:08,860 --> 00:14:12,360
Even if you don't get funded, your research program may not continue.

230
00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:17,000
It is a reality and it's a reality that really hits home for many people.

231
00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:22,520
But it is important to recognize why do you do what you do and why is it important?

232
00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:25,280
Only remember that you're a clinician.

233
00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:28,360
You're not answering research questions just to answer research questions.

234
00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:33,320
You're asking research questions because you see a need in the patient population that

235
00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:34,320
you serve.

236
00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:36,160
You see the need.

237
00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:40,720
And your research program is a response to that need.

238
00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:42,680
And it is an important question.

239
00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:47,200
And sometimes what you're doing is just over time, you're refining your skill at making

240
00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:52,760
the need more obvious, making the need more clear to the funders around you.

241
00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:58,180
And so the basis for your research program is solid.

242
00:14:58,180 --> 00:15:01,040
Unless you're just like, you know, oh, I just started this project.

243
00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:03,120
Somebody gave it to me and here I am.

244
00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:06,400
We are ones later, unless that's you.

245
00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:10,240
And if that's you, we should talk because you don't want to get to the end of your

246
00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:15,280
career and just feel empty and just feel like, yeah, I was wildly successful, but that didn't

247
00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:16,280
really feel good.

248
00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:22,040
Or, well, I was wildly successful and now my 18 year old doesn't talk to me.

249
00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:27,960
You know, you're building a life at the same time as you're building a research program.

250
00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:31,880
And it's got to be a meaningful life and your work has got to be meaningful.

251
00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:34,400
You've got to enjoy the journey.

252
00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:36,360
Can I just say that again?

253
00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:39,360
This whole process is about enjoying the journey.

254
00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:41,360
No, it's not about prestige.

255
00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:42,520
It's not about honor.

256
00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:44,440
It's not about glory.

257
00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:47,360
It's about enjoying the journey.

258
00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:53,040
And when you do work that's consistent with your values, that's aligned with who you are,

259
00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:57,720
and every time it yields a reward, it nourishes you so deeply.

260
00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:00,020
And it's so good.

261
00:16:00,020 --> 00:16:07,760
Every time you do work and you can look back on your work and say, that is a fine contribution.

262
00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:10,120
There's no way to put monetary value on that.

263
00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:12,620
It's so good.

264
00:16:12,620 --> 00:16:14,440
And I want that for you.

265
00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:15,620
I want that for you.

266
00:16:15,620 --> 00:16:21,640
I want you, instead of just chasing the money, start with why, the why of your research program.

267
00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:27,440
And I want to argue that when the why of your research program is so good and so deep, I

268
00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:31,520
want to believe that the universe conspires to help you succeed.

269
00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:36,200
And even when the universe does not conspire to help you succeed, you conspire to help

270
00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:38,120
yourself succeed.

271
00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:41,640
Because the reason for your why is so clear to you that you're like, even if you're not

272
00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:44,560
going to pay me, this work is going to move forward.

273
00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:48,940
And somehow you start to attract people who have the same sentiment as you, and you really

274
00:16:48,940 --> 00:16:50,880
start to move the work forward.

275
00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:56,440
So I'm going to ask you to consider starting with why instead of just chasing money.

276
00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:57,440
Okay?

277
00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:03,400
And then number six is to use your why to create opportunities for money to come to

278
00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:04,400
you.

279
00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:08,600
When you're so sure, when you're so clear on why you're doing what you're doing and

280
00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:13,960
the importance of it, then you can really start to make a case that other people can

281
00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:16,240
start to see the why alongside you.

282
00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:19,360
And that kind of is the whole big thing about grantsmanship.

283
00:17:19,360 --> 00:17:23,040
You get to a place where you can actually communicate clearly what's in your head so

284
00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:26,640
that at the time the reviewer reads it where you're not there, they clearly understand

285
00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:30,400
where you're going, what you want to do, why it's significant, because you explain it to

286
00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:32,040
them so well.

287
00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:37,920
And so the reality is, if you would be so clear about why you're doing what you're doing,

288
00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:45,360
why it's so important, then you can actually start to work hard to use that why to create

289
00:17:45,360 --> 00:17:48,720
opportunities for funding to come to your program.

290
00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:53,520
And so then you're not really letting the money lead you, you're letting your program

291
00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:59,360
lead and you're using your program to create opportunities for funding.

292
00:17:59,360 --> 00:18:06,040
I remember Judah Folkman gave a talk at a meeting that I was at a couple of years ago,

293
00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:11,120
and I think Judah Folkman died a few years ago, but he talked about how when he was doing

294
00:18:11,120 --> 00:18:15,840
work on angiogenesis, nobody was doing that work.

295
00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:17,480
Nobody was funding that work.

296
00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:22,840
And over the course of time, all of a sudden, change in direction, there was so much more

297
00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:29,120
money going into that field, all of a sudden everybody came in and was doing work in angiogenesis.

298
00:18:29,120 --> 00:18:31,680
Angiogenesis is just such a big thing by itself.

299
00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:37,160
But someone was the lone voice in the wilderness saying, hey, angiogenesis is a big deal.

300
00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:40,560
And for the longest time, they were on their own doing that work.

301
00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:44,240
But over time, it really paid off.

302
00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:47,100
And his story is not the only story of that.

303
00:18:47,100 --> 00:18:51,880
It's like when you know and you believe in the truth and the value of what you're doing,

304
00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:58,920
abandoning it doesn't get you closer to realizing your dream, but continuing to stay focused

305
00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:04,920
and putting in the time and the effort, creating opportunities where opportunities don't exist,

306
00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:09,040
allow you to do the impossible.

307
00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:10,600
And I invite you to that.

308
00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:17,280
I invite you to think about why your program is so important, that even if you look around

309
00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:21,640
and there doesn't seem to be anybody funding it, think about why does it make sense to

310
00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:22,800
stay with it?

311
00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:26,800
Yes, you do want to be creative in funding the program, but you don't want to change

312
00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:30,000
direction just so that you can get funded.

313
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:35,480
You want to make sure that you stay focused and you bend opportunities to your will, not

314
00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:38,880
that you're bending to the will of opportunities.

315
00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:45,800
So I want to invite you, if you are someone who knows someone else who would benefit from

316
00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:49,680
kind of the information we've talked about and thinking about why you should lead your

317
00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:55,320
research program and not let the pursuit of money lead for you, please share this episode

318
00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:56,360
with someone else.

319
00:19:56,360 --> 00:20:01,040
Help somebody else discover it or leave us a review that somebody else can discover and

320
00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:02,600
learn so much.

321
00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:08,160
Imagine how amazing it would be if we just were very clear about the whys of our research

322
00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:15,000
program and we stuck through hard times to get to the other side of research success

323
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,080
in a place that we actually want to be successful.

324
00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:21,280
I think that would be so awesome and I invite you to that space.

325
00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:25,040
All right, I want to thank you for listening to us today.

326
00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:36,840
It has been a pleasure talking with you today and I look forward to the next time.

327
00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:42,200
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Clinician Researcher Podcast, where academic

328
00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:47,640
clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program, whether or not they

329
00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:49,000
have a mentor.

330
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:55,120
If you found the information in this episode to be helpful, don't keep it all to yourself.

331
00:20:55,120 --> 00:20:56,840
Someone else needs to hear it.

332
00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:00,900
So take a minute right now and share it.

333
00:21:00,900 --> 00:21:06,360
As you share this episode, you become part of our mission to help launch a new generation

334
00:21:06,360 --> 00:21:12,280
of clinician researchers who make transformative discoveries that change the way we do healthcare.