1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,860 Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills 2 00:00:05,860 --> 00:00:11,260 to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor. 3 00:00:11,260 --> 00:00:17,340 As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients. 4 00:00:17,340 --> 00:00:22,380 When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find 5 00:00:22,380 --> 00:00:27,780 that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research 6 00:00:27,780 --> 00:00:29,180 program. 7 00:00:29,180 --> 00:00:35,480 Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit. 8 00:00:35,480 --> 00:00:40,580 However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs. 9 00:00:40,580 --> 00:00:46,200 For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians 10 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:51,800 the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor. 11 00:00:51,800 --> 00:01:00,060 Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene. 12 00:01:00,060 --> 00:01:01,060 Hello everybody. 13 00:01:01,060 --> 00:01:03,860 Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast. 14 00:01:03,860 --> 00:01:05,620 I'm your host Toyosi Onwuemene. 15 00:01:05,620 --> 00:01:10,860 I am excited to be talking with you today, and especially because I have an awesome, 16 00:01:10,860 --> 00:01:12,660 awesome guest today. 17 00:01:12,660 --> 00:01:16,060 It's Lisa Baumann Krautsiger, and she's going to tell you in a few minutes how to really 18 00:01:16,060 --> 00:01:19,260 say her name, but it's a pleasure to have you here on the show, Lisa. 19 00:01:19,260 --> 00:01:23,500 Thank you for being here, and I want to invite you, please, to introduce yourself to our 20 00:01:23,500 --> 00:01:24,500 audience. 21 00:01:24,500 --> 00:01:27,100 Thank you so much for having me. 22 00:01:27,100 --> 00:01:29,940 So yes, my name is Lisa Baumann Krautsiger. 23 00:01:29,940 --> 00:01:36,820 I kept Baumann for a reason, but since Krautsiger is horribly hard to pronounce. 24 00:01:36,820 --> 00:01:42,140 I'm a clinician investigator at Bursby Blood Research Institute and the Medical College 25 00:01:42,140 --> 00:01:44,380 of Wisconsin in Milwaukee. 26 00:01:44,380 --> 00:01:51,700 My clinical work involves benign hematology or classical hematology, and my research is 27 00:01:51,700 --> 00:01:52,700 in thrombosis. 28 00:01:52,700 --> 00:01:57,700 Thank you, Lisa. 29 00:01:57,700 --> 00:02:01,740 You talked about being a clinician investigator or clinical investigator, and I think there's 30 00:02:01,740 --> 00:02:04,860 so many terms that we can use to describe it. 31 00:02:04,860 --> 00:02:09,260 I think sometimes there's a sense of we're clinical scientists, we're clinician scientists, 32 00:02:09,260 --> 00:02:10,420 clinician researchers. 33 00:02:10,420 --> 00:02:14,540 Is there a specific name you kind of identify with the most? 34 00:02:14,540 --> 00:02:17,060 Yeah, I don't know. 35 00:02:17,060 --> 00:02:23,540 I try not to get too tripped up with the terminology, to be honest. 36 00:02:23,540 --> 00:02:31,980 Probably within the structure that I work in, investigator is the term, and that what 37 00:02:31,980 --> 00:02:38,460 goes through both basic scientists and translational scientists and clinician scientists. 38 00:02:38,460 --> 00:02:46,100 I do probably prefer the term clinician investigator because it then speaks to both what I study 39 00:02:46,100 --> 00:02:52,180 as well as then puts me in the same sort of structure that other areas of research are 40 00:02:52,180 --> 00:02:54,180 within our institute. 41 00:02:54,180 --> 00:02:55,980 Sure, sure. 42 00:02:55,980 --> 00:02:57,660 Thank you for clarifying that. 43 00:02:57,660 --> 00:03:02,980 Now, let me ask you about the defining moment, if there was one, or maybe the series of defining 44 00:03:02,980 --> 00:03:06,980 moments at which you felt like, yeah, you know what, I'm not just a clinician. 45 00:03:06,980 --> 00:03:08,700 I'm a clinician investigator. 46 00:03:08,700 --> 00:03:16,420 Yeah, I thought this question was really interesting because I actually came to medicine in the 47 00:03:16,420 --> 00:03:17,780 opposite direction. 48 00:03:17,780 --> 00:03:25,820 So I always through high school and into college knew I was going to be doing biology and doing 49 00:03:25,820 --> 00:03:27,820 research. 50 00:03:27,820 --> 00:03:33,740 And probably my defining moment was when I was doing an internship and half of my time 51 00:03:33,740 --> 00:03:42,500 I spent it in the lab doing laboratory investigation and half of my time then I was able to shadow 52 00:03:42,500 --> 00:03:44,820 a clinician. 53 00:03:44,820 --> 00:03:54,700 And it was a very gut response to the days that I got to go in and see patients and really 54 00:03:54,700 --> 00:03:58,780 showed me that I wanted to be a clinician as well. 55 00:03:58,780 --> 00:04:03,660 And so I probably always knew I was going to be doing research and added the clinical 56 00:04:03,660 --> 00:04:04,940 piece to it. 57 00:04:04,940 --> 00:04:12,660 Throughout my career, I've gone back and forth between doing laboratory based investigations 58 00:04:12,660 --> 00:04:15,980 and doing clinical investigations. 59 00:04:15,980 --> 00:04:22,660 And I think that's helpful for me to then understand both realms in order to bridge 60 00:04:22,660 --> 00:04:25,260 that gap a little bit better. 61 00:04:25,260 --> 00:04:30,620 When I'm seeing a patient, it's helpful for me to be able to say, well, we don't have 62 00:04:30,620 --> 00:04:36,420 the answer to that question, but we are looking into it in this way or that way. 63 00:04:36,420 --> 00:04:38,380 Or say, you know what, that's a great question. 64 00:04:38,380 --> 00:04:42,940 I'm going to add that to my list of things we don't know and things we probably need 65 00:04:42,940 --> 00:04:44,820 to look into. 66 00:04:44,820 --> 00:04:49,300 And then on the opposite side, when I'm doing and looking at either looking at grants or 67 00:04:49,300 --> 00:04:55,700 thinking about projects, I need to really focus that in on what's important to the patient 68 00:04:55,700 --> 00:05:00,900 in front of me, because there are so many things that you could do and really trying 69 00:05:00,900 --> 00:05:06,180 to anchor the research projects and the time spent on things that are really going to help 70 00:05:06,180 --> 00:05:07,180 patients. 71 00:05:07,180 --> 00:05:09,820 So it kind of goes both ways for me. 72 00:05:09,820 --> 00:05:11,180 Sure, sure. 73 00:05:11,180 --> 00:05:14,700 And that's really unique, at least I think from my perspective, Lisa. 74 00:05:14,700 --> 00:05:18,900 I think many, many people come in from the perspective of I've been doing patient care 75 00:05:18,900 --> 00:05:21,740 for so long and now I want to do research. 76 00:05:21,740 --> 00:05:26,380 And that can be hard because they haven't actually even ever done anything in research 77 00:05:26,380 --> 00:05:27,380 at all. 78 00:05:27,380 --> 00:05:31,220 And so, but for you, it sounds like you've kind of grown both perspectives at the same 79 00:05:31,220 --> 00:05:32,220 time. 80 00:05:32,220 --> 00:05:33,220 Yeah, absolutely. 81 00:05:33,220 --> 00:05:40,140 And I'm wondering how has that been an advantage for you? 82 00:05:40,140 --> 00:05:50,220 Yeah, I think the biggest thing is trying to, as I mentioned, bridge that gap because 83 00:05:50,220 --> 00:05:57,860 there aren't a lot of people that understand both laboratory-based investigations and clinically 84 00:05:57,860 --> 00:05:59,060 based investigations. 85 00:05:59,060 --> 00:06:06,460 So able to look at, for example, studies that are looking at biomarkers in clinical diseases. 86 00:06:06,460 --> 00:06:11,460 Well, most of the time that those are laboratory-based investigations and trying to understand the 87 00:06:11,460 --> 00:06:15,620 techniques and the pluses and minuses of it. 88 00:06:15,620 --> 00:06:21,180 And from the opposite way, so we have multiple investigators that are studying different 89 00:06:21,180 --> 00:06:28,380 pieces of their either structure, their protein of choice, or whatever else from a laboratory 90 00:06:28,380 --> 00:06:34,060 perspective and trying to give them and see where we might be able to translate that and 91 00:06:34,060 --> 00:06:40,860 trying to set up the laboratory-based investigations to answer the ways that we can potentially 92 00:06:40,860 --> 00:06:43,660 translate that to human and patient care. 93 00:06:43,660 --> 00:06:48,580 So I think that is a distinct advantage. 94 00:06:48,580 --> 00:06:54,300 It leads to a lot of difficulty in trying to understand or pick what am I going to go 95 00:06:54,300 --> 00:07:00,940 see when at an annual meeting or what am I going to do in terms of where my focus is 96 00:07:00,940 --> 00:07:06,340 going to be for, what journals do I read? 97 00:07:06,340 --> 00:07:07,980 What should I review? 98 00:07:07,980 --> 00:07:10,000 What projects am I going to be involved in? 99 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:14,740 When you're kind of straddling both, it can be a little challenging from that perspective. 100 00:07:14,740 --> 00:07:22,980 So what I hear is that your work is translational and you're also in a sense an interpreter. 101 00:07:22,980 --> 00:07:27,840 So you're translating between the clinicians and the lab investigators to a great extent 102 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:33,060 as well, just even in terms of interpreting what studies need to be done, not just even 103 00:07:33,060 --> 00:07:37,460 in terms of what the studies are that you're doing, but in even communicating, I think, 104 00:07:37,460 --> 00:07:38,460 between groups. 105 00:07:38,460 --> 00:07:40,180 Is that fair to say? 106 00:07:40,180 --> 00:07:43,860 Yeah, actually, that's a great way to think about it. 107 00:07:43,860 --> 00:07:49,140 I think about it also in terms of translating things to our patients. 108 00:07:49,140 --> 00:07:57,460 So we do that as a clinician every day, translating classical hematology to other areas of medicine. 109 00:07:57,460 --> 00:08:02,380 So I think maybe that's just a way for me to frame who I am. 110 00:08:02,380 --> 00:08:04,380 I'm a translator of knowledge. 111 00:08:04,380 --> 00:08:06,500 I love it. 112 00:08:06,500 --> 00:08:07,500 I love it. 113 00:08:07,500 --> 00:08:12,220 Well, Thomas, what has been the biggest challenge for you in this journey? 114 00:08:12,220 --> 00:08:17,860 Yeah, I think there have been several. 115 00:08:17,860 --> 00:08:25,860 I think one of the big things is when I started my research career, I was focusing on device-related 116 00:08:25,860 --> 00:08:26,860 thrombosis. 117 00:08:26,860 --> 00:08:32,500 And that was really in mostly mechanical circulatory support. 118 00:08:32,500 --> 00:08:36,540 And my first grant was in that as a pilot study. 119 00:08:36,540 --> 00:08:43,860 And very shortly after I received that pilot study, my surgeons lacked. 120 00:08:43,860 --> 00:08:51,500 Therefore, the entire mechanical circulatory support program fell apart. 121 00:08:51,500 --> 00:08:59,300 And so the big lesson for me with that is that it's very difficult to study as well 122 00:08:59,300 --> 00:09:07,860 as to put your career in others' hands. 123 00:09:07,860 --> 00:09:14,900 I was able to make some continued progress with that group by reaching out to other surgeons 124 00:09:14,900 --> 00:09:15,900 and other programs. 125 00:09:15,900 --> 00:09:19,580 And it is an area that I'm still very interested in. 126 00:09:19,580 --> 00:09:23,700 But it definitely is a major challenge when you don't... 127 00:09:23,700 --> 00:09:26,020 The patients aren't primarily yours. 128 00:09:26,020 --> 00:09:31,780 And I think we have that in classical hematology in many aspects, especially in thrombosis. 129 00:09:31,780 --> 00:09:40,420 So any of our work in cancer-associated thrombosis, our oncologists, their primary patients are 130 00:09:40,420 --> 00:09:41,500 theirs. 131 00:09:41,500 --> 00:09:49,820 So in a lot of ways, it's ensured that I had honed my skills in collaboration. 132 00:09:49,820 --> 00:09:56,580 But it does make things definitely challenging when you don't own...the patients aren't 133 00:09:56,580 --> 00:09:57,940 primarily yours. 134 00:09:57,940 --> 00:10:01,500 So, Rand, thank you for sharing that perspective. 135 00:10:01,500 --> 00:10:06,420 And I feel like I heard two things that really, really stood out to me. 136 00:10:06,420 --> 00:10:11,820 One is just how strong you've become through that process of forming multiple, not just 137 00:10:11,820 --> 00:10:16,260 one or two, but it sounds like multiple collaborations to move your work forward. 138 00:10:16,260 --> 00:10:19,580 In a sense, I look at it as like you're diversifying your portfolio. 139 00:10:19,580 --> 00:10:22,780 It's like, well, if one thing fails, other things move forward. 140 00:10:22,780 --> 00:10:27,100 But the other piece that really, I think, resonated with me is that putting your career 141 00:10:27,100 --> 00:10:31,740 or putting your research in one person's hands or in one group's hands. 142 00:10:31,740 --> 00:10:37,260 And I just wonder, other than the collaborations, how else have you done that? 143 00:10:37,260 --> 00:10:40,900 What would you recommend to someone else who is in a similar situation? 144 00:10:40,900 --> 00:10:43,820 But maybe their surgeons haven't left and they're feeling happy that things are going 145 00:10:43,820 --> 00:10:44,820 well. 146 00:10:44,820 --> 00:10:45,820 Yeah. 147 00:10:45,820 --> 00:10:48,100 I mean, there's a fine balance here. 148 00:10:48,100 --> 00:10:55,100 I definitely agree that you need to diversify your portfolio in terms of projects that are 149 00:10:55,100 --> 00:11:02,580 going on or other areas, because not every, I promise you, only a very few limited amounts, 150 00:11:02,580 --> 00:11:05,540 a number of your grants are going to be funded. 151 00:11:05,540 --> 00:11:07,540 That's just the reality. 152 00:11:07,540 --> 00:11:12,100 And you don't know what's going to necessarily stick. 153 00:11:12,100 --> 00:11:16,940 So or what's, you know, what hurdles you're going to have in one project versus another. 154 00:11:16,940 --> 00:11:23,940 And so definitely having potentially a couple of different areas that you are working through 155 00:11:23,940 --> 00:11:28,340 and having projects at different stages also helps a lot. 156 00:11:28,340 --> 00:11:31,620 And that's obviously hard when you're at the beginning part of your career, when everything 157 00:11:31,620 --> 00:11:32,620 is just beginning. 158 00:11:32,620 --> 00:11:37,740 But hopefully, you know, potentially through a mentor, you could come into a project that's 159 00:11:37,740 --> 00:11:38,820 already ongoing. 160 00:11:38,820 --> 00:11:46,220 So you can, again, try to not only diversify in topics, but diversify in stages of where 161 00:11:46,220 --> 00:11:48,580 a project is. 162 00:11:48,580 --> 00:11:56,260 And the other thing is to probably have more than one mentor or more than one sort of group 163 00:11:56,260 --> 00:11:57,260 that you're working on. 164 00:11:57,260 --> 00:12:02,900 You know, there's definitely people change institutions, as I had mentioned, happened 165 00:12:02,900 --> 00:12:07,740 to me, but also mentors leave and other clinical collaborators leave. 166 00:12:07,740 --> 00:12:13,060 And I think it's been important to that that doesn't completely derail everything that 167 00:12:13,060 --> 00:12:16,380 you are currently working on. 168 00:12:16,380 --> 00:12:20,500 The other thing I wanted to mention in terms of collaboration is at the same time that 169 00:12:20,500 --> 00:12:28,340 that happened to me with my mechanical circulatory support research plundering, for lack of a 170 00:12:28,340 --> 00:12:29,900 better way to say it. 171 00:12:29,900 --> 00:12:35,500 The other thing that happened right at that time was the opportunity to form the clinical 172 00:12:35,500 --> 00:12:38,920 research network that I run now called Venus. 173 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:45,780 So that was back in 2016, and it was a bit serendipity, which a lot of times plays into 174 00:12:45,780 --> 00:12:54,060 good things that the Canadian group was VT researchers, Alcan Vector, they had received 175 00:12:54,060 --> 00:12:57,980 grant funding to actually form an international network. 176 00:12:57,980 --> 00:13:05,220 And as a piece of that, they were looking for US based researchers to really formalize 177 00:13:05,220 --> 00:13:06,920 a US network. 178 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:14,580 And so that really was a great opportunity and has really led a vast majority of my research 179 00:13:14,580 --> 00:13:16,500 since that time. 180 00:13:16,500 --> 00:13:23,020 And so the other kind of thing message to send is that, you know, when one area, the 181 00:13:23,020 --> 00:13:27,540 other benefit of diversifying is one area is not going well, sometimes other things 182 00:13:27,540 --> 00:13:30,540 come along. 183 00:13:30,540 --> 00:13:36,060 And you have to be open to that as well, because you don't necessarily know where each of the 184 00:13:36,060 --> 00:13:38,980 things are going to lead. 185 00:13:38,980 --> 00:13:41,300 That's really, really, really well said, Lisa. 186 00:13:41,300 --> 00:13:42,700 Thank you for sharing that. 187 00:13:42,700 --> 00:13:45,620 What I see is someone who's leading their career. 188 00:13:45,620 --> 00:13:49,980 It's like, yes, other things may not be working in this area, but because I'm leading, I'm 189 00:13:49,980 --> 00:13:52,620 going to move to this area that's working well. 190 00:13:52,620 --> 00:13:57,940 And I think that even as a young person starting in the field, you are leading in terms of 191 00:13:57,940 --> 00:14:00,540 you're the one saying, okay, I'm going to work with this mentor, I'm going to try to 192 00:14:00,540 --> 00:14:02,220 work with this group. 193 00:14:02,220 --> 00:14:07,020 And in a sense, as you're leading yourself, then you put yourself in great positions to 194 00:14:07,020 --> 00:14:09,060 be ready for opportunity when it comes. 195 00:14:09,060 --> 00:14:11,340 And so you speak of being lucky. 196 00:14:11,340 --> 00:14:14,880 And I think of you as someone who kind of just had done a lot of the right things and 197 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:19,860 was in the right place to recognize an opportunity when it came, and you were ready to run with 198 00:14:19,860 --> 00:14:20,860 it as well. 199 00:14:20,860 --> 00:14:21,860 Yeah, that's absolutely true. 200 00:14:21,860 --> 00:14:28,860 I mean, you have to put yourself out there, but you have to also be willing to do it and 201 00:14:28,860 --> 00:14:29,860 put the hard work in. 202 00:14:29,860 --> 00:14:37,060 Like, you know, when we started, when we started the Venus organization, no one was, it wasn't 203 00:14:37,060 --> 00:14:40,540 being covered by anything in my, in my career. 204 00:14:40,540 --> 00:14:44,340 I didn't get a point, whatever FTE to run Venus. 205 00:14:44,340 --> 00:14:47,820 It was, it was my own volunteer time and it was a lot of work. 206 00:14:47,820 --> 00:14:53,500 And we then got a lot of fantastic help from a lot of other organizations that really helped 207 00:14:53,500 --> 00:14:56,820 us get the, get the group off the ground. 208 00:14:56,820 --> 00:14:59,700 And so it is both, right? 209 00:14:59,700 --> 00:15:04,380 It's having the confidence and being willing, willing to put yourself out there, taking 210 00:15:04,380 --> 00:15:09,700 the opportunities when they do come and then putting in the hard work and, and making sure 211 00:15:09,700 --> 00:15:14,700 that it is something that you are proud to be a part of. 212 00:15:14,700 --> 00:15:18,780 Lisa, you've spoken of hard work. 213 00:15:18,780 --> 00:15:21,940 You spoken of collaborators leaving, things not working. 214 00:15:21,940 --> 00:15:25,380 This is a hard journey you're describing. 215 00:15:25,380 --> 00:15:28,820 And I'm wondering what's kept you in the game. 216 00:15:28,820 --> 00:15:36,580 I think part of it is just again, the desire to always know more. 217 00:15:36,580 --> 00:15:47,620 I think it's the trying to take care of our patients better and really answer the questions 218 00:15:47,620 --> 00:15:52,260 that they, and we have, but we don't know yet. 219 00:15:52,260 --> 00:15:57,260 And so I think that is the biggest thing that, that drives me. 220 00:15:57,260 --> 00:16:05,060 I mean, I see how much we've been able to improve patient care, even in, in my career. 221 00:16:05,060 --> 00:16:11,180 And I'm hopeful and want to be involved in the next steps of all of that. 222 00:16:11,180 --> 00:16:16,900 Because in the end, that's where, you know, as a, as a doctor, my, my role is to make 223 00:16:16,900 --> 00:16:18,780 patients better. 224 00:16:18,780 --> 00:16:26,380 And by doing research, I see that as ability to forward their care as well. 225 00:16:26,380 --> 00:16:28,220 That's really, that's really amazing. 226 00:16:28,220 --> 00:16:31,740 What I hear in that is someone who's not satisfied with the status quo. 227 00:16:31,740 --> 00:16:36,580 Yes, we're taking great care of patients, great care of patients, but how can we do 228 00:16:36,580 --> 00:16:37,700 that better? 229 00:16:37,700 --> 00:16:43,460 And seeing research as an opportunity to actually improve the care of patients currently, and 230 00:16:43,460 --> 00:16:48,260 in fact, being rewarded by you seeing some of the research you're doing come to be able 231 00:16:48,260 --> 00:16:52,140 to be used clinically to help patients get, be better. 232 00:16:52,140 --> 00:16:53,140 Absolutely. 233 00:16:53,140 --> 00:16:56,780 That's the, that's the coolest thing to be able to do. 234 00:16:56,780 --> 00:16:58,580 That is very cool. 235 00:16:58,580 --> 00:16:59,580 That is very cool. 236 00:16:59,580 --> 00:17:03,940 And I'm so appreciative of you coming and sharing all this insight with us. 237 00:17:03,940 --> 00:17:07,460 And we're kind of rounding up and getting to the end of the show. 238 00:17:07,460 --> 00:17:12,460 I wanted to ask you if you had one word or one piece of advice that you wanted to share 239 00:17:12,460 --> 00:17:16,760 with a young person who's just getting started and wondering, okay, maybe I should just focus 240 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:20,900 on clinical care to the best of my knowledge, even though they really want to do research. 241 00:17:20,900 --> 00:17:22,500 What would you share with them? 242 00:17:22,500 --> 00:17:26,540 What advice would you give them? 243 00:17:26,540 --> 00:17:29,660 I would suggest to stick with it. 244 00:17:29,660 --> 00:17:39,620 I think that it does seem daunting when you first start, and hopefully people are better 245 00:17:39,620 --> 00:17:46,080 at sharing the ups and downs, especially people who have been successful in their careers, 246 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:54,580 but just know that it is definitely worth it and being able to then take what you're 247 00:17:54,580 --> 00:18:01,980 learning and translate that into patient care is incredibly rewarding. 248 00:18:01,980 --> 00:18:03,620 So stick with it. 249 00:18:03,620 --> 00:18:10,540 You don't, even if you don't make a research, you're 80% of what you do every day. 250 00:18:10,540 --> 00:18:11,800 That's okay. 251 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:18,180 Even if you only make it a quarter of what you do or half of what you do, and then you 252 00:18:18,180 --> 00:18:23,780 get to decide whether that's enrolling people in clinical trials, whether that's designing 253 00:18:23,780 --> 00:18:28,100 trials, whether that's doing retrospective reviews. 254 00:18:28,100 --> 00:18:33,020 I think there's, and that's what we've really tried to do with the Venus Network is we have 255 00:18:33,020 --> 00:18:38,060 people who are involved at all of those stages. 256 00:18:38,060 --> 00:18:40,060 We have people who are leading the projects. 257 00:18:40,060 --> 00:18:45,380 We have people who participate in the projects, which is absolutely essential. 258 00:18:45,380 --> 00:18:50,300 So you don't have to have a master's in clinical research in order to participate in clinical 259 00:18:50,300 --> 00:18:51,300 research. 260 00:18:51,300 --> 00:18:56,020 If you want to design the trials, go get your master's in clinical research because it definitely 261 00:18:56,020 --> 00:19:02,900 will help you in not only face validity of being able to design them, but also the underlying 262 00:19:02,900 --> 00:19:05,640 knowledge of how to do it. 263 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:12,060 So there are lots of ways that you can participate in research and you can then make that as 264 00:19:12,060 --> 00:19:16,620 large or as small of a part of your career. 265 00:19:16,620 --> 00:19:20,060 That's super awesome. 266 00:19:20,060 --> 00:19:21,060 Thank you, Lisa. 267 00:19:21,060 --> 00:19:23,180 I hear you saying the sky's the limit. 268 00:19:23,180 --> 00:19:24,180 What do you really want to do? 269 00:19:24,180 --> 00:19:28,500 And that's what you should go for because it does give you the most satisfying, fulfilling 270 00:19:28,500 --> 00:19:32,300 career to be doing things that are meaningful to you. 271 00:19:32,300 --> 00:19:36,580 And there are many opportunities to participate in research in different ways and with different 272 00:19:36,580 --> 00:19:37,580 people. 273 00:19:37,580 --> 00:19:41,620 And yeah, that's definitely something that if you are listening today, you should pay 274 00:19:41,620 --> 00:19:43,180 attention to. 275 00:19:43,180 --> 00:19:44,260 Don't think you can't do it. 276 00:19:44,260 --> 00:19:45,500 Don't give up before you start. 277 00:19:45,500 --> 00:19:46,500 You've done many hard things. 278 00:19:46,500 --> 00:19:50,380 You've come through medical school, come through residency, maybe going through fellowship 279 00:19:50,380 --> 00:19:52,700 or have finished fellowship, but you've done a lot of hard things. 280 00:19:52,700 --> 00:19:57,300 So hard things are not easy to do, but you've been doing them. 281 00:19:57,300 --> 00:20:02,340 And so even though it can be hard to succeed in research, you can, and it's definitely 282 00:20:02,340 --> 00:20:07,660 worth sticking with it because it's very fulfilling and very rewarding as Lisa has shared with 283 00:20:07,660 --> 00:20:08,660 us today. 284 00:20:08,660 --> 00:20:12,260 Lisa, I just want to say thank you for being with us here on the show today, for sharing 285 00:20:12,260 --> 00:20:16,340 your insights and just for being an all around inspiration. 286 00:20:16,340 --> 00:20:17,340 Thank you for being here. 287 00:20:17,340 --> 00:20:18,340 Oh, thank you for those kind words. 288 00:20:18,340 --> 00:20:19,340 And thank you so much for having me. 289 00:20:19,340 --> 00:20:20,340 It's great to see you. 290 00:20:20,340 --> 00:20:21,340 You're welcome. 291 00:20:21,340 --> 00:20:22,340 Thank you. 292 00:20:22,340 --> 00:20:23,340 Okay, everyone. 293 00:20:23,340 --> 00:20:24,340 So you've heard Lisa. 294 00:20:24,340 --> 00:20:29,780 Keep going, keep working at it. 295 00:20:29,780 --> 00:20:34,780 And if you need a piece of encouragement, if you need just, just to keep being encouraged 296 00:20:34,780 --> 00:20:39,780 along the journey, which can be hard, definitely reach out to us, sign up for our weekly newsletter, 297 00:20:39,780 --> 00:20:41,940 docsleaveresearch.com. 298 00:20:41,940 --> 00:20:45,380 And we'll be happy to just keep you engaged and keep you thinking about different ways 299 00:20:45,380 --> 00:20:47,300 to succeed in research. 300 00:20:47,300 --> 00:20:48,300 All right. 301 00:20:48,300 --> 00:20:49,980 This is the end of today's show. 302 00:20:49,980 --> 00:20:53,660 It's been a pleasure hanging out with you and I look forward to seeing you again next 303 00:20:53,660 --> 00:20:54,660 time. 304 00:20:54,660 --> 00:20:55,660 Take care. 305 00:20:55,660 --> 00:21:05,660 Thanks for listening to this episode of the Clinician Researcher Podcast, where academic 306 00:21:05,660 --> 00:21:10,940 clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program, whether or not they 307 00:21:10,940 --> 00:21:12,420 have a mentor. 308 00:21:12,420 --> 00:21:18,540 If you found the information in this episode to be helpful, don't keep it all to yourself. 309 00:21:18,540 --> 00:21:20,260 Someone else needs to hear it. 310 00:21:20,260 --> 00:21:24,320 So take a minute right now and share it. 311 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:29,780 As you share this episode, you become part of our mission to help launch a new generation 312 00:21:29,780 --> 00:21:50,940 of clinician researchers make transformative discoveries that change the way we do healthcare.