1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,860 Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills 2 00:00:05,860 --> 00:00:11,260 to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor. 3 00:00:11,260 --> 00:00:17,340 As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients. 4 00:00:17,340 --> 00:00:22,380 When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find 5 00:00:22,380 --> 00:00:27,780 that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research 6 00:00:27,780 --> 00:00:29,200 program. 7 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:35,480 Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit. 8 00:00:35,480 --> 00:00:40,580 However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs. 9 00:00:40,580 --> 00:00:46,200 For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians 10 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:51,800 the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor. 11 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:59,400 Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene. 12 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:04,060 Hey everyone, welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast. 13 00:01:04,060 --> 00:01:08,720 I'm your host Toyosi Onwuemene, and it is such a pleasure to be talking with you today. 14 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:15,600 Today I am extraordinarily happy to introduce our guest on the show, and it is Dr. Gabby 15 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:16,720 Hobbs. 16 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:21,360 She is an amazing, amazing clinician, researcher, scientist. 17 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:25,280 She's done so many things, and I won't do it justice if I try to introduce her. 18 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:27,400 So I'm actually going to ask Dr. Hobbs. 19 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:29,280 Gabby, welcome to the show. 20 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:31,280 Please introduce yourself to our audience. 21 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:36,240 Hey Teyasi, thank you so, so much for that very kind introduction. 22 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:37,440 So my name is Gabby Hobbs. 23 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:43,000 I am the clinical director of the Leukemia Service at Mass General Hospital in Boston, 24 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:47,920 and I am a clinical investigator, and I specialize in the care and research of patients with 25 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:48,920 maloperulative neoplasms. 26 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:51,640 I'm so excited to be here with you. 27 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:52,640 Thanks for joining us. 28 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:55,760 So Dr. Hobbs, you're not a PhD. 29 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:56,760 Nope. 30 00:01:56,760 --> 00:02:00,360 You did MD training, like I did. 31 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:04,880 And one of the things that I think definitely was hard for me is coming through all this 32 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:09,000 clinical training and then turning out on the other side as a clinician scientist or 33 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:12,800 clinician researcher, physician scientist, however you want to address yourself. 34 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:18,240 But I wonder, what was the turning point for you at which you were like, yeah, I'm a physician 35 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:19,240 scientist. 36 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:20,240 I'm doing this. 37 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:21,240 I'm a researcher. 38 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:22,240 What was that turning point for you? 39 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:27,040 It's funny that you ask it that way because when you say it, I'm like, oh, is that really 40 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:28,040 what I am? 41 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:31,200 So I don't know that there's ever a point where you're like, oh yeah, this is what I 42 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:32,200 am. 43 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:40,240 But in all seriousness, I think as I went through fellowship, all of the training was 44 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:45,920 geared at making me or making my co-fellows, both clinicians and investigators. 45 00:02:45,920 --> 00:02:51,320 And so I kind of left fellowship feeling like that was my reality and that's what I was, 46 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:52,320 that's who I was. 47 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:58,080 But really you realize once you become faculty that actually becoming that person takes many 48 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:00,440 years, many, many years in the making. 49 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:06,320 And so I think little by little that reality dawns on you when you first start and it takes 50 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:09,520 a few years to actually believe that that's what you are. 51 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:13,960 And I think that's part of why when you asked me, you know, when did that dawn on you? 52 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:17,000 I don't always believe it still. 53 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:19,120 You know, it's an interesting thing you share. 54 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:23,560 It's like you talk about this gradual process of becoming, right? 55 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:26,720 You went through fellowship where that was the goal of the fellowship. 56 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:30,440 But in the process, you didn't end the fellowship as a researcher. 57 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:32,760 You've kind of been growing into the role. 58 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:38,300 Now I want you to talk about the aspects of your fellowship that contributed to you kind 59 00:03:38,300 --> 00:03:43,440 of becoming at least a little bit more of the investigator that you were before entering 60 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:44,440 into fellowship. 61 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:47,040 Because I don't think everybody has that experience in fellowship. 62 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:48,800 Yeah, sure. 63 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:53,040 So I think a lot of it depends really on where you get your training. 64 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:59,560 And for me, it felt like my fellowship program only had one viable endpoint. 65 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:03,200 I mean, and then that's, you know, I'm sort of simplifying a little bit because of course 66 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:06,000 not all my co-fellows ended up doing this. 67 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:11,040 But the question really was at the beginning of fellowship, not are you going to do research, 68 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:15,100 but are you going to be a lab investigator or are you going to be a clinical investigator? 69 00:04:15,100 --> 00:04:21,160 And so it always felt like that was the purpose of fellowship to learn how to become some 70 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:24,340 form of an investigator. 71 00:04:24,340 --> 00:04:29,580 So throughout my whole fellowship training, all of everything that I did in my second 72 00:04:29,580 --> 00:04:34,660 and third year in particular was geared at learning how to write clinical trials, identifying 73 00:04:34,660 --> 00:04:38,720 a mentor that I could write a clinical trial with, thinking about projects that I could 74 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:43,840 accomplish during fellowship, but it was all very contained. 75 00:04:43,840 --> 00:04:50,520 And it was rare that I had full autonomy or ownership over the direction of where the 76 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:52,460 research was going. 77 00:04:52,460 --> 00:04:59,880 So it felt like a very safe way to be a researcher under the wings of somebody that was already 78 00:04:59,880 --> 00:05:00,880 fully established. 79 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:04,880 And so then that's why I think when you're a fellow, it's easier to believe that you're 80 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:10,160 that investigator because you already participate in research that was established by somebody 81 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:12,600 before you. 82 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:14,640 So then tell me about the transition. 83 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:19,120 So now transitioning into your own independent faculty career, how did you keep that fire 84 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:22,520 going with regards to being an investigator? 85 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:24,360 Yeah, no doubt. 86 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:30,200 I think the most challenging transition, and I heard this when I was a fellow, and I really 87 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:36,200 do believe that the most challenging transition in medicine is, or at least for me was, when 88 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:40,360 I finished fellowship and then I started from scratch in a new location as an attending 89 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:45,000 physician and all of a sudden my colleagues around me expected me to be the person that 90 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:50,000 I told them I was going to be when I interviewed in fellowship. 91 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:59,760 And that transition is really difficult, especially I think if you go to a new institution where 92 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:04,520 you're not known by your colleagues there as the fellow that did X, but all of a sudden 93 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:08,960 you are this attending and by definition you brought in this expertise. 94 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:14,040 And so there for a few years I really felt like I have to fake it until I make it. 95 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:19,960 And it felt very uncomfortable initially because I was expected to be an expert in an area 96 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:23,440 where I personally didn't feel like I had enough expertise because I had just been a 97 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:24,440 fellow yesterday. 98 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:27,720 And so that initial transition was difficult. 99 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:34,000 What kept my fire going and what has really been very, very, very helpful for me from 100 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:41,680 the beginning to where I am now is having a very clear direction and having a very well 101 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:44,360 defined niche. 102 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:50,260 And I can't emphasize that enough and I talk to my trainees about that all the time. 103 00:06:50,260 --> 00:06:57,680 When you start in a new place, when you transition, having a clear goal and whether that is a 104 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:04,520 niche in a specific area of oncology or a specific type of research, I find that that 105 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:06,080 really helped to direct me. 106 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:13,320 So when I felt like I wasn't necessarily making progress or I didn't exactly know what the 107 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:19,800 immediate next step was to accomplish a task, I at least knew where I was going overall. 108 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:25,120 So even if I was hitting some dead ends, because man, you hit a lot of dead ends at the beginning, 109 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:30,920 at least having a clear sense of, well, these doors may not be opening the way that I want 110 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:36,680 them to or this project may not be working, but my overall goal is to get to here. 111 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:45,360 And so when I started as faculty, to put it in perspective, I was hired to be the myeloproliferative 112 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:47,400 neoplasm person. 113 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:52,600 So I was going to be the expert in MPNs and I was going to start a research program for 114 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:54,080 MPN patients. 115 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:58,800 And so I was very fortunate that I was able to do that. 116 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:00,520 That's what I wanted to do. 117 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:05,920 And I had a lot of room to do what I wanted to do, but also that room is overwhelming. 118 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:09,440 And so sometimes it's kind of difficult to actually get started. 119 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:12,480 And so knowing that I had a clear mission really, really helped. 120 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:15,600 So I think that's very helpful for Neutronies. 121 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:16,600 I love it. 122 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:20,120 Gabby, there are a couple of things you said that I really do want to highlight for our 123 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:21,120 listeners. 124 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:24,520 You talked about how you were faking it until you made it. 125 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:28,400 And one of the things that I think is so important is just the mindset shift. 126 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:32,200 It's like everybody was looking at you as the expert, no matter what they thought about 127 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:35,540 the fact that you had just come from fellowship, you were the expert. 128 00:08:35,540 --> 00:08:40,080 And somehow you were just filling in until you believed that you were the expert. 129 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:44,280 And so what you were doing at the beginning didn't necessarily change until you finally 130 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:46,200 figured out that, hey, I am the expert. 131 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:49,000 But it was really your mind was changing. 132 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:52,840 One day you had been the fellow and the next day you were the attending. 133 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:53,840 And that shift was just so big. 134 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:56,120 I mean, it was so big for me too. 135 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:59,240 It was like, you know, they seem to be buying this thing. 136 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:00,240 Okay. 137 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:04,240 But it's so important. 138 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:08,840 And the biggest, I think the person we most have to convince is ourselves, right? 139 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:10,880 It's not really other people. 140 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:13,520 And maybe there's some other people who will never be convinced, whatever. 141 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:17,800 But really the biggest convincing we need to do is for ourselves. 142 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:22,720 And so a lot of the work really is mindset work is changing our minds about how we see 143 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:27,060 ourselves so that if we're fortunate, we start to see ourselves as other people see us. 144 00:09:27,060 --> 00:09:30,480 But sometimes we're not fortunate and we have to see ourselves the way we see ourselves, 145 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:32,680 whether other people see us that way or not. 146 00:09:32,680 --> 00:09:36,920 So definitely I love the way you highlighted the mindset work that really needs to happen 147 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:38,920 to make that transition. 148 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:42,360 And then the second thing you said that was so awesome, I just want to just drill down 149 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:47,720 on it is just you talked about how you had a clear sense of where you were going. 150 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:51,520 And I have to say, Gabby, everybody doesn't have that clear sense, but you did. 151 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:56,000 And that was like your guiding compass so that even when you're lost, like the GPS, 152 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:59,560 you put in the directions, you're going to get there or you have no GPS. 153 00:09:59,560 --> 00:10:01,840 You go ask me, you're like, I'm on my way here. 154 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:03,240 How do I get there? 155 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:07,560 And so I feel like it's so important just to help people recognize that you just got 156 00:10:07,560 --> 00:10:08,800 to own your space. 157 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:12,720 You've got to own where you are and just determine that that's where I'm going. 158 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:14,360 And it's not clear, it's kind of fuzzy. 159 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:18,560 And sometimes you hit dead ends, like you said, but we've really got to take ownership 160 00:10:18,560 --> 00:10:19,560 of it. 161 00:10:19,560 --> 00:10:22,600 Anyway, so I wanted to just highlight those two things and then ask if there was anything 162 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:24,160 else you wanted to add to that. 163 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:29,360 Yeah, I love that you summarize the second part of owning your space. 164 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:35,880 I think one of the things that probably makes the transition from trainee to faculty is 165 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:44,080 learning that your space is yours to be owned and truly taking that very, very, very seriously. 166 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:50,680 We're so used to in our training being told when we have to be on call, when we have to 167 00:10:50,680 --> 00:10:55,080 have elective time or given projects, everything is like more packaged. 168 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:57,680 And then all of a sudden you become faculty. 169 00:10:57,680 --> 00:11:02,760 And whether or not you're fortunate to have one very clear direction or you start out 170 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:07,320 trying to figure out what that direction is, making sure that you realize that you are 171 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:13,720 no longer a trainee and you can create space around you to grow is just so important. 172 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:18,640 And I've seen this time and again with a lot of junior faculty where they continue to ask 173 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:22,720 for permission about a lot of different things, whether that be something as small as can 174 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:26,240 I end my clinic a little bit earlier today because I have to go do whatever. 175 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:28,440 And it's like, yes, it's your clinic. 176 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:29,600 You can do that. 177 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:35,640 Or that is something as simple as saying, I can't do that review or I can't participate 178 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:41,840 in that project because those things won't fill the needs that I need to fulfill in order 179 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:47,160 to create and develop my space and my niche and all those things. 180 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:52,440 So realizing that that space is yours to create is also a very important part of that. 181 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:58,460 You were talking about, Do you see the mindset of making that space your own and being successful 182 00:11:58,460 --> 00:11:59,460 in that initial growth. 183 00:11:59,460 --> 00:12:00,460 And it's not that straightforward. 184 00:12:00,460 --> 00:12:05,040 I think sometimes it takes a few years to figure out how to really carve that out. 185 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:06,040 Yeah. 186 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:08,160 Gabby, it's such a great point. 187 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:11,400 It is so hard because we've been trainees for so long. 188 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:15,840 I with med school and residency and fellowship, for me, it was 10 years. 189 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:17,920 For some people, it's a little bit longer than that. 190 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:23,320 But you are for 10 years or more, you've been in that mindset of like, well, this is what 191 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:24,380 I've been asked to do. 192 00:12:24,380 --> 00:12:25,840 This is where I'm supposed to go. 193 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:28,280 This is what the end result is supposed to look like. 194 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:32,480 And then there's such a transition to faculty where it's like you're on your own. 195 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:37,040 How do people accelerate that transition where they stop thinking like a trainee, acting 196 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:41,600 like a trainee and really owning them their roles as a faculty member? 197 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:43,800 Well, that is a hard question. 198 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:52,960 I think there's this mixture of being humble and being able to ask all the people around 199 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:57,000 you for as much advice as you can. 200 00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:05,760 Whereas on the other hand of that, also being able to develop boundaries that keep you sane 201 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:09,440 and keep your career moving in the direction that you wanted to go. 202 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:14,800 So both learning how to ask for help while also setting up some space. 203 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:18,120 And I think that that takes a little bit of time. 204 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:19,720 And I think we don't talk about it enough. 205 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:25,000 I've seen it a lot with like I was saying before with younger faculty where they show 206 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:30,640 up and they're still in that trainee mentality where they're looking around and saying, all 207 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:34,400 right, well, who's going to give me a project? 208 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:40,560 And a lot of becoming a successful attending with whatever research you're going to do 209 00:13:40,560 --> 00:13:47,640 to fill the research career that you want has to be self-driven. 210 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:54,960 And so learning how to both ask for it and create on your own I think is sometimes probably 211 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:58,560 part of what makes that transition so difficult. 212 00:13:58,560 --> 00:14:04,760 And I think just if I could at least tell it to your audience and just in general to 213 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:15,000 the people that I mentor is learning how to create their own project or make their own 214 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:16,000 space. 215 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:18,440 I don't want people to wait for things to be given to them. 216 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:22,560 I love what you said though about asking for help because what you're not asking is who 217 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:23,880 should I become? 218 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:24,880 Who should I be? 219 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:27,000 You're saying this is what I want to become. 220 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:29,640 This is the help I need to get there and that's so important. 221 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:33,960 I feel like we put people in a tough situation where we're saying, who should I be? 222 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:35,400 How should I live in this world? 223 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:37,000 And it's like, they can't tell you. 224 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:40,960 And sometimes people are earnest and they're really just trying to help you, but they're 225 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:45,600 not helping you because they can't tell you who you are, who you need to be, but they 226 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:49,360 can give you help to get there if you've decided who that person needs to be. 227 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:53,640 And so I think some of the work you're talking about, like in a sense is unspoken is that 228 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:57,120 you got to figure out who you want to be, how you want to show up in this world. 229 00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:59,200 And nobody's going to help you do that. 230 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:01,760 You kind of have to decide on your own. 231 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:04,480 And for me, working with a coach helped me figure that out. 232 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:08,160 It took me a long time, but some people kind of know from the beginning. 233 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:12,080 So when you're going to ask for help, you're not saying, well, should I be a myeloma person? 234 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:14,840 I know I'm kind of the MDS person, but should I be the myeloma person? 235 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:18,400 And maybe they think it's yes, but now you're kind of off track. 236 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:23,520 But if you're like, I'm the MDS person, this is what I came to do or I'm the MPN person. 237 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:27,240 Then they can be like, well, this is what the MPN person should be doing, or this is 238 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:28,920 what you should be applying for. 239 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:30,640 These are the resources available to you. 240 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:34,880 So they can help you if you give them something to help you with. 241 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:35,880 What a great point. 242 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:41,840 And I think learning how to ask for that help is not something that everybody knows how 243 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:44,440 to do immediately out of fellowship. 244 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:50,740 Because I think that what more people are asking is either to be given something that's 245 00:15:50,740 --> 00:15:54,680 already created or asking for an identity. 246 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:59,760 And no mentor is going to either give you your identity or shape that research career 247 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:00,760 for you. 248 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:04,200 I think one of the beauties and also one of the things that's so overwhelming about academics 249 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:08,080 is that you do have the flexibility to craft your career to a way that makes sense for 250 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:09,080 you. 251 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:12,280 And nobody's going to care about that as much as you are going to care about that. 252 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:19,480 And so learning how to look around you and saying, listen, this person may not be in 253 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:25,040 my exact same space, but the type of research that they do in this area appeals to me. 254 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:27,400 So I'm going to ask them specifically for that. 255 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:32,840 And so taking the most of your environment in order to craft that career for yourself 256 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:36,160 until you yourself figure out exactly what you want them to look for is so important. 257 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,920 But not going and asking, please shape this career for me. 258 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:45,920 I think I want to be around here is pretty difficult, I think, at the beginning. 259 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:47,240 I love what you said. 260 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:52,440 And it really reminds me of how we can help our mentors succeed in mentoring us when we're 261 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:54,920 clear on how they come to help us. 262 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:59,280 And sometimes it helps us to see that we actually have more access to mentors than we thought. 263 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:03,040 So many of us were thinking about the one big mentor who's going to shape my identity 264 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:06,040 and give me everything I need and feed me and clothe me. 265 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:10,880 And yeah, I mean, it's so much that we have to learn as clinicians who never did research, 266 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:11,880 right? 267 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:15,460 We need to learn how to write and submit manuscripts, take them all the way through revisions. 268 00:17:15,460 --> 00:17:18,780 We need to learn how to write and submit grants, take them through revisions. 269 00:17:18,780 --> 00:17:20,360 We need to learn to create writing structures. 270 00:17:20,360 --> 00:17:22,200 There's so much we need. 271 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:26,560 And one person is really not going to be able to give us all of it. 272 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:31,240 And if we ask them to, we're so needy, so desperate, we end up chasing off a lot of 273 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:33,560 people who could be helpful to us. 274 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:37,320 But when we kind of think, okay, well, I need help in grant writing, there's a grant writing 275 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:39,360 program at my institution, I'm going to go do that. 276 00:17:39,360 --> 00:17:43,400 And then I'm going to ask my mentor, okay, I've written this first draft of this piece 277 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:45,960 of the grant, can you help me take it further? 278 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:48,480 It's giving them very tangible things that they can help you do. 279 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:49,480 They can help you win. 280 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:52,120 But when you're like, tell me, tell me how to get there. 281 00:17:52,120 --> 00:17:53,840 Tell me who I am. 282 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:54,960 It's hard to help you win. 283 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:57,160 And to be honest, I think a lot of people bulk at that. 284 00:17:57,160 --> 00:17:58,680 And they're like, I can't be your mentor. 285 00:17:58,680 --> 00:17:59,680 This is too much for me. 286 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:02,080 I love that you said that. 287 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:09,920 And I remember, sorry, when I was in fellowship, literally from day one, it was ingrained in 288 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:16,760 my mind that I needed to find, and I always say it this way, this like unicorn of a mentor, 289 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:20,200 this person that was going to do all of these things for me. 290 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:22,560 And I never found that person. 291 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:24,300 So then I thought there was something wrong with me. 292 00:18:24,300 --> 00:18:26,960 And I was like, never going to be successful in research. 293 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:32,160 And exactly like you said, I think learning how to find mentorship from the people that 294 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:38,160 are around you in a way that's tangible, that doesn't, that's not like you said, you know, 295 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:41,760 please help me with everything in the world and like help shape my career is so important 296 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:44,640 because I think one of the things that you don't realize when you're a trainee, and it's 297 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:53,120 kind of like being a child and then a parent is really, I mean, mentors are busy, you know, 298 00:18:53,120 --> 00:18:59,680 and they're generally not mentoring one person only, and they usually have lots of responsibilities. 299 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:04,480 And so the mentee interactions that I've had that have been the most successful and 300 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:09,680 mentor interactions have been most successful are when there are clear agenda, there are 301 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:15,920 recurring meetings that mentee is able to like take charge of that relationship and 302 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:19,420 say, would it be okay if we meet with this frequency? 303 00:19:19,420 --> 00:19:23,800 Would it be okay if I send you this manuscript so you can help me with this section where 304 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:24,800 I'm struggling? 305 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:29,880 And so I think that that skill is one that I think should be more emphasized in fellowship 306 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:33,800 and in like early transition, as opposed to like what I was saying before about finding 307 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:39,160 that magical type of mentor that, you know, some people really do have and that's wonderful, 308 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:40,160 but a lot of people don't. 309 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:44,560 And a lot of people, even if they have that great one mentor, they still would benefit 310 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:48,680 from asking for advice from other people that have maybe different perspectives. 311 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:51,460 Absolutely, absolutely. 312 00:19:51,460 --> 00:19:54,880 And I thank you for just shedding light on that because it's so important. 313 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:59,720 You know, honestly, I have a lot of failed mentoring relationships, not because the mentors 314 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:03,840 failed me, but because I just didn't know what I wanted, but somehow it was there. 315 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:07,000 I had a sense of it, even though it wasn't clearly defined. 316 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,920 And instead of defining it for myself, I was asking other people to define it for me. 317 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:13,680 And so when they took on that challenge to help me define it, then I got upset because 318 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:15,500 I was like, that's not what I want. 319 00:20:15,500 --> 00:20:19,440 And so clarifying for ourselves what we want helps us to make the most out of our mentors. 320 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:22,200 And I love what you said about making the most of people around you. 321 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:24,880 The reality is everything you need is already around you. 322 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:28,840 And to be honest, we live in a world now where it doesn't even matter where the mentor is. 323 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:29,840 You get the most out of them. 324 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:31,320 I mean, we meet virtually now. 325 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:33,440 I mean, we've always met virtually. 326 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:37,720 It's become more of a thing now, but just whoever it is across the country who has something 327 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:41,640 you can benefit from, you can usually find a way to connect to them. 328 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:46,260 And if you make your ask very, very specific, you're really able to do that. 329 00:20:46,260 --> 00:20:50,560 And so I wonder if you want to speak more to that as people who may be thinking, I don't 330 00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:52,980 have any mentors, there's no one here. 331 00:20:52,980 --> 00:20:58,400 How can they get the most out of the people around them or thinking even across the country? 332 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:04,400 That is a great question and a really important skill to have. 333 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:09,820 And again, something that is not spoken about enough and so I'm glad you brought it up. 334 00:21:09,820 --> 00:21:13,100 In the era of virtual everything, it's like you said, it's perfect. 335 00:21:13,100 --> 00:21:17,320 And I would say, don't be afraid to network. 336 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:22,000 Don't be afraid to cold call or send an email to somebody that you don't know and say, hey, 337 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:26,680 I read your whatever I saw you in this presentation, et cetera. 338 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:31,920 Would it be okay if we set up a quick call to talk? 339 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:35,160 And it's an art, truly. 340 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:39,340 I think that in our training, we don't learn that much about how to network. 341 00:21:39,340 --> 00:21:43,960 Perhaps some of us have good mentors that introduced us to different people at national 342 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:45,400 meetings or things like that. 343 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:52,560 But I really, I didn't appreciate the importance of networking and building those connections 344 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:58,240 in terms of finding mentorships but also finding people to collaborate with. 345 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:00,640 And it really can be so, so, so incredibly helpful. 346 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:04,240 I remember my father would always talk to me about this when I was a medical student. 347 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:05,240 He was like, you have to go network. 348 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:06,240 You have to talk to people. 349 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:07,240 Maybe you should ask this person. 350 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:08,240 I was like, what are you talking about? 351 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:09,960 I don't want to do that. 352 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:13,400 But once you become an attending, especially if you're working in a field where there's 353 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:19,840 rare diseases or in general, many different careers benefit from collaborations, making 354 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:24,160 those connections is so important and getting your name out there is so important and building 355 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:27,040 I think the concepts of building social capital is so important. 356 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:28,960 So people are like, hey, you know what? 357 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:30,640 That person called me up one time. 358 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,680 She sounded really motivated and had these great questions, whatever. 359 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:36,120 Maybe we should include her in this next project. 360 00:22:36,120 --> 00:22:40,240 Those little things that you don't think they're going to be a big thing in the future really 361 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:41,240 can make a huge, huge difference. 362 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:42,320 And I'll tell you one story. 363 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:47,340 When I was starting out, because I was the only person in my institution that was focusing 364 00:22:47,340 --> 00:22:53,160 on the area of leukemia that I focused on, I reached out to somebody in the field that 365 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:54,160 was very well known. 366 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:59,560 And it was really like a cold email where I was like, I respected you, Don. 367 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:04,280 Do you mind if we have a call and we talk about several how you guys started? 368 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:08,440 He was also Latino in the field of malproliferative neoplasms. 369 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:11,640 There aren't that many, so you probably wouldn't know who it is. 370 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:13,200 And to this day, he'll still remember. 371 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:17,480 And he was like, I was just so impressed by the fact that you just called me and we talked. 372 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:21,400 And our relationship has been a relationship now of almost a decade. 373 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:23,640 And so little things can go a long way. 374 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:28,480 And so reaching out to people that you're interested in and connecting with is a great 375 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:29,480 idea. 376 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:33,000 And sometimes you just have to swallow your ego and your pride and say, I'm just going 377 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,400 to do this even though it makes me feel a little bit uncomfortable. 378 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:37,400 I love it. 379 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:38,400 And thank you for sharing that. 380 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:43,680 Everybody is excited when someone emails them and says, I love your work or I'm following 381 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:46,160 your work or your work is inspiration, something. 382 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:48,280 I mean, it's just like, oh, thank you. 383 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:50,120 You're not sending me an email to complain about something. 384 00:23:50,120 --> 00:23:51,120 This is so awesome. 385 00:23:51,120 --> 00:23:56,020 And then if you're a young person in the field and you think that you can learn something 386 00:23:56,020 --> 00:24:01,720 from them, what an honor it is to actually say, yes, I'll talk to you. 387 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:06,760 And to be honest, I think a lot of people don't get enough of that kind of people reaching 388 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:07,760 out to them. 389 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:13,000 So I think I want with you to encourage listeners and say, hey, if you want something and it's 390 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:17,400 not at your home institution and there is someone who exists in this world, definitely 391 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:25,960 in this country who has it, just be bold and reach out and be nice, be kind, flatter them. 392 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:27,440 Not in a bad way, but just- 393 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:29,040 It goes a long way. 394 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:34,360 Share with them what aspects of them are helpful to you or impressive to you because you notice 395 00:24:34,360 --> 00:24:37,400 them because they're doing work that is meaningful to you. 396 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:39,560 So definitely, definitely reach out. 397 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:43,600 I appreciate you that sharing how to network because everyone's always saying network, 398 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:47,080 but it's like, but how do you do it? 399 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:51,880 I don't know if you want to speak to more networking tips for our listeners. 400 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:52,880 Yeah. 401 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:56,160 I mean, networking is very, very important. 402 00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:59,840 Like you said, not something that we get enough training on. 403 00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:03,840 And it's really not something that I had appreciated. 404 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:13,960 And I would say take every opportunity that you can to practice networking skills. 405 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:20,840 When you're at Ash, for example, if there is an event that you feel could be potentially 406 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:27,720 interesting to you, there's like the women in medicine events on Saturday nights or there's 407 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:33,800 different types of events throughout the conference, definitely go and step outside of your comfort 408 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:34,800 zone. 409 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:38,520 Even if it may not be exactly what you want to do, stand in front of your poster, talk 410 00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:43,400 to people, follow up with things, get people's contact information. 411 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:48,600 All of those, all of those are easy, easy ways to start networking. 412 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:53,160 And then definitely, you know, some, some networking stuff has been lost a little bit 413 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:57,960 with a lot of the virtual meetings because it's much harder to network with a chat on 414 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:02,840 zoom than it is to network with a coffee break in the middle of a meeting. 415 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:06,760 Take those opportunities to meet people in person when you can. 416 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:13,160 Like I said, national meetings are usually a very good place for that. 417 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,200 And yeah, don't, don't be afraid to seek those opportunities out in person is obviously better. 418 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:20,360 But if you can't do it in person, then like we were saying before, reach out. 419 00:26:20,360 --> 00:26:24,080 And if you don't have that person's information or you really don't feel like you could reach 420 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:29,160 out to that person directly, I'm sure there's somebody else that you can ask, Hey, do you 421 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:32,040 mind introducing me to this other person? 422 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,400 And so building those connections, I just can't, I know we sort of said it a little 423 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:40,880 bit already, but building those connections, especially early in your career, but really 424 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,640 throughout your career is just so important. 425 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:48,000 Remember, once you become faculty, once you are trying to be, make a name for yourself 426 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:53,960 as a researcher, it's not about grades and where you're going to match and those kinds 427 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:54,960 of things. 428 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,360 It really is about who you know and who knows you. 429 00:26:57,360 --> 00:27:00,100 And a lot of it is, you know, if they like you. 430 00:27:00,100 --> 00:27:04,840 And so if they've had good interactions with you, you've been kind to them like you were 431 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:11,120 saying to me before, people are eager in academics to collaborate with people that are nice. 432 00:27:11,120 --> 00:27:12,760 And so that's just so important. 433 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:18,820 You don't realize like how those little gestures can actually really go a long way. 434 00:27:18,820 --> 00:27:23,400 So I really would think about that very, be very purposeful about that. 435 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:24,700 Thank you for sharing that Gabby. 436 00:27:24,700 --> 00:27:28,400 You know, as you're talking, I'm reminded that, you know, being a faculty member is 437 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:30,560 like a choose your own adventure type of book. 438 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:37,040 I don't know if you remember those where you're like, you get to decide which way do you go. 439 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:40,520 And yeah, you may end up in a place where you didn't want to, but you get to walk back 440 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:42,160 and choose a different adventure, right? 441 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,360 I mean, it's just at the end of the day, the book is still there. 442 00:27:44,360 --> 00:27:46,240 You can choose a different adventure. 443 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:50,360 And so the key is that you kind of are the one leading your own program. 444 00:27:50,360 --> 00:27:52,240 You're leading your own career. 445 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:53,240 And yes, it's so awesome. 446 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,840 We have great mentors who can help guide you, but everyone doesn't have that. 447 00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,920 And if you don't have that immediately before you, it doesn't mean you can't have a great 448 00:27:59,920 --> 00:28:00,920 career. 449 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:06,080 And so don't write yourself out of a career as a physician scientist or as a clinician 450 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,800 researcher because you don't have resources right around you. 451 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:10,800 So thank you. 452 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:13,480 Thank you for sharing those tips about how to network well. 453 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:17,240 So I want to ask, you know, I feel like we've had a great conversation. 454 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:19,440 We've touched on a lot of things. 455 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:21,020 What would you say is left on set? 456 00:28:21,020 --> 00:28:24,640 So there's someone who's listening and they're like, I just don't know if I can do this. 457 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:29,000 I didn't have the same kind of great fellowship training the Dr. Hobbs had. 458 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,200 And I don't know if I can make it. 459 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:36,520 What would you say to them, Gabby, about making this, taking the step to kind of becoming 460 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,080 a physician scientist? 461 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:44,600 You know, one of the things that I think about a lot as I see people around me transition 462 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:51,920 in different careers or perhaps leave academia is that the beauty, the beauty in academia 463 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:58,160 is that like you were saying before, it is choose your own adventure, but that is also 464 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:01,520 part of what sometimes makes it overwhelming. 465 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:05,680 So don't be, don't think that you have to do it. 466 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:07,360 Do it if you want to do it. 467 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:11,340 And if you don't enjoy it, definitely don't do it. 468 00:29:11,340 --> 00:29:14,680 But if you think that it's something that you're interested in, if it's something that 469 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:20,240 you want to give it a try, remember that you are going to get out of it what you put into 470 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:21,800 it. 471 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:26,040 And I think one of the things that's so special about this type of career is exactly like 472 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:31,360 you were saying before, you see that you may walk down one path and find that you are somewhere 473 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:32,760 where you didn't intend to go. 474 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:34,400 And that can go two ways. 475 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:38,400 Either you backtrack and you start over, or you realize that actually that place that 476 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,080 you didn't intend to be in, actually not that bad. 477 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:42,980 And then it takes you down another road. 478 00:29:42,980 --> 00:29:47,080 I think one of the things that's beautiful about a scientific career that way is that 479 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:49,320 usually one question leads to many other questions. 480 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:55,080 So it can open the doors for things that you didn't necessarily expect. 481 00:29:55,080 --> 00:30:02,320 But take ownership, don't be afraid to ask, and focus on something that you're interested 482 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,760 in because otherwise it's just not worth it. 483 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:09,560 So make it worth it for yourself. 484 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:10,560 I love it. 485 00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:11,560 Gabby, thank you. 486 00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:13,200 What a beautiful note to end on. 487 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:16,160 I just want to share with our listeners, you heard Dr. Hobbs. 488 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:21,640 I mean, this is your own journey and you're not stuck and you can make a new thing out 489 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,160 of it if you get to a place you don't want to be. 490 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:28,240 But definitely decide that you want to be here and then move forward with it or decide 491 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:31,160 that you don't and then move forward with whatever you choose. 492 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:32,720 But you're not stuck. 493 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:34,040 You have agency. 494 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:37,360 You can make a career for yourself that allows you to thrive. 495 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:41,940 And I think Gabby's just mentioned so many things that would be helpful to so many people. 496 00:30:41,940 --> 00:30:46,500 So I want to invite you, if you have heard something that resonated with you and you're 497 00:30:46,500 --> 00:30:49,880 like, somebody else needs to hear this, share this episode with them. 498 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:53,920 If you're a mentor and you're like, my mentees need to hear this, please forward it on. 499 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:58,640 I think more people need to hear that this is doable, that even though it's hard and 500 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,560 even though it's challenging, there are many ways to make it work. 501 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,720 And so please share this episode as best as you can. 502 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,400 Gabby, thank you so much for being with us today. 503 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,000 It's been such a pleasure to have you. 504 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,360 Thank you for sharing gold with our audience. 505 00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:14,360 Thank you so much for having me, Taysa. 506 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:15,360 All right, everyone. 507 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:24,000 Until next time, take care. 508 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:29,360 Thanks for listening to this episode of the Clinician Researcher Podcast, where academic 509 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:34,760 clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program, whether or not they 510 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:36,160 have a mentor. 511 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:42,260 If you found the information in this episode to be helpful, don't keep it all to yourself. 512 00:31:42,260 --> 00:31:44,000 Someone else needs to hear it. 513 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:48,040 So take a minute right now and share it. 514 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:53,520 As you share this episode, you become part of our mission to help launch a new generation 515 00:31:53,520 --> 00:32:07,040 of clinician researchers who make transformative discoveries that change the way we do health 516 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:08,040 care.