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Gather around everyone because warming his hands at the zoologist campfire with us today

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is my fellow arachnologist Rodrigo Willemart. Rodrigo got his PhD at the University of Sao

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Paulo and he is now a professor there. In between he has worked in several countries,

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Argentina, France, Wales and several places in the USA. Back at the University of Sao

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Paulo he now runs the LESCA, the Laboratory of Sensory Ecology and Behavior of Arachnids.

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There he and his team of students study arachnids including spiders, camel spiders, whip spiders

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and his favorites opiliones or harvestmen. And in this research Rodrigo tries to find

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out how arachnids use their senses and other parts of their bodies to defend themselves,

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to catch prey, to find food and find partners. And you may think that that means traveling

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to many exotic places and lying on your belly on the ground to see what those critters are

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up to. Well, let's find out. Rodrigo, welcome to the podcast.

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Thank you very much. Thanks for having me, Ari. Yeah. Pleasure to be here. It's overdue.

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I know you have some good stories there. Is it true? Are opiliones your favorite arachnids?

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Yeah, yeah, they probably are. I've been working also with scorpions a lot today, but opiliones

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are still probably my favorite ones. Yeah. Yeah. So that's what people usually call daddy

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long legs or harvestmen. Yeah. Those little balls with those long legs that you see walking

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around. They are amazing. They're like aliens. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Well, scorpions are my

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favorite. Sorry about that. Yeah, I know that. Well, actually our work with scorpions is

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more trying to kill them. So it's for controlling dangerous scorpions. So you probably won't

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be happy to hear that. But yeah, that's what my research is about one of the lines.

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I've read those papers of yours trying to kill scorpions in Sao Paulo. I mean, that's

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a scorpion that is a big nuisance there, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I still, I'm very

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much looking forward to going into the field with you one day. But for now, I'll have to

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settle for your stories. Okay. So what do you have for us today? I guess you'll be chasing

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spiders. Yes. So yeah, I'm going to be telling three stories and two on days in arachnids,

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days in harvestmen. But maybe I'll begin with one that happened in the US after an arachnology

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Congress. So we went to this Congress, the two places in Colorado, the US. And then after

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the meeting, me and two students of mine, Gabrielle and Avatar, Guillermi, we went to

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Yellowstone because we wanted to see bear the wild, not in a zoo. So we spent eight days

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there in Yellowstone trying to see a bear. That's a beautiful place, right? I mean, what

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time of year were you there? I don't remember, but probably the beginning of, yeah, probably

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around March and February, I believe. Early spring. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, I don't

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know. I don't have it because I don't know. I have to check that. Okay. But it wasn't

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winter so it can't be March and February. So maybe by July. Oh, okay. It's usually

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in the beginning of the year or by the middle of the year. So I'll guess in July then. So

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nice weather anyway. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nice weather, beautiful park. And you know, it's

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really, really, really an amazing place to be there. So we spent the seven first days

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seeing all kinds of animals, bison and antelopes and wolves, coyotes, but not the bears. So

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by the seventh day we decided we would go up on top of this hill so we could get almost

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a 30, 360 degrees view. And we heard there was a bear around a few days. So we were there

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and then we saw a bunch of cars pulling over down there. So cars pulling over means there's

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an animal there. Something interesting. Yeah, because that's why cars pulled over. So then

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we rushed running. We started running going down the hill. Then we took our camera out

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with this nice zoom and we looked at the camera and sure enough there was a bear lying down

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the road. So we kept running, running, running, running, because it was really a high, high

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hill. So we ran, ran, ran, ran, tripped over a couple of times. And then we were by the

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middle of the hill and then we noticed that the cars started going away. Okay. Then we

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were, who am I? So then the bear left. Because otherwise they would- Maybe. Yeah. So we said,

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okay, so then let's keep going down. And then when we are by around maybe a hundred meters

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away from the road, we stopped and then we climbed, we climbed on this falling tree trunk.

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The three of us were there looking for the bear, looking for the bear. And then Gabrielle

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tells me, Rodrigo, the bear is right there. And then we look, the bear was right there.

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I think maybe 16 meters away from us. But it's kind of a scary situation because there

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was, at this point, there was nobody there. There were the three of us, no cars, no shelters,

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not anything. We were walking there. So it's so really scary situation that I hadn't felt

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before yet in my life. And then you saw this bear, then the bear is wandering around and

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then the bear stared at us. And when it did this, oh my God. So then at this time, so

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I had this bear spray. So I had the bear spray in one hand. I have all of that I have in

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Gideon because I have my cell phone recording. The problem is that I was really scary. So

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I was really trembling. So my hand was like this. So the image is not really the best

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image. And then I had the bear spray like this and recording everything. And then Gabrielle,

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he took his pocket knife, one of the Swiss army knives, this big to protect itself against

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the bear. And there he was with his knife and me with the bear spray. And then the bear,

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he looked at us for maybe 10 seconds and then just kept walking. He didn't really care about

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us. But it was this amazing sensation of kind of a mixture of fear and pleasure at the same

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time. And for this seconds of interactions, I can certainly say it was the strongest thing

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that I ever felt in my life, this mixture of fear and pleasure. And my legs were really

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shaking and trembling. And then when the bear left, he just ran away and went up the hill.

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And then the other two Gabrielle and Gideon asked us the same time, are your legs trembling

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also? And I said, yes, they are. So the three of us, we were like, oh my god, we're so scared.

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Anyway, the bear left.

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Oh, but that's, I mean, it's such a different thing behind bars or in the field with you

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and you have nowhere to hide. That's such a different situation.

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I think that's the scariest thing that when you know there's nobody there, there's you

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and the bear. And by the way, it was the brown bear, not the black bear. The brown bear is

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the scarier. Yeah, it's a lot bigger. Yeah. Anyway, what about you?

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You're at the mercy of the bear essentially, right?

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Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, my best friend, but you know, I was so scared that I don't even

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know if I would be able to use it.

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Yeah, maybe it just pisses him off. Yeah.

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Oh, awesome. Yeah. No, it's finding a big mammal like that, that you have no control

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over in the field. That's next. Yeah. But it was, as I said, really amazing sensation.

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It's chilling. Really good.

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It is funny that even the most experienced biologists still say that, like, that's the,

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it's so primal, I guess.

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Yeah. Actually, I never saw a jaguar, for example. I've been walking in rainforest for

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more than 20 years. I've seen pop range several times on jaguars. Yeah. In Brazil. But never

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the actual one. Yeah, in Brazil. Yeah. In the rainforest where I worked. The times when

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I saw a jaguar was as a tourist. Then this was easy because you get on a boat, you go

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to Antanau, it's a savanna area in Brazil. There are tours where people go there to see

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jaguars. And then it's a nice, a different situation, but it's full of people on the

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boats. And then I've seen 11 different individuals of jaguars in a day in a house. Oh, wow. And

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I have pictures and videos, all of them, they're there. Because it's not the same because I

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mean, it's full of five, six boats with 10 people on each boat. So it's not the same

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experience. As seeing a bear. No, you're relatively safe. At least you probably feel safe. But

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I mean, doing field work in Brazil, I mean, I don't have that much experience, obviously,

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but I've been in Colombia and we were on our hands and knees. Like I just said in the introduction

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that that's what you do a lot as an aeronologist picking between the leaves and we're looking

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for these tiny arachnids at night in the jungle. And you think, well, you know, anything could

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sneak up on you essentially. Yeah, that is true. The thing is to me, I really don't,

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don't bother too much about jaguars because if you do, then you just don't do the field

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work. I mean, you know, they're there. I'm sure that probably most probably oftentimes

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jaguars were around and they were maybe watching me, but they're scared because of the headlamps,

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you know, and you move, you know, weird way. And so in Pantanal in this southern area,

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and I was talking about that, it's different because there the jaguars are used to humans.

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And that's actually a problem because if you have a look at papers, you're going to see

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that jaguar attacks on human beings. They're really, there's no record on Mata Atlantis,

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this rainforest we have in South Brazil. I found one or two reports in Amazonian forest,

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but then really, really rare, but then in Pantanal it does happen. Okay. So you should

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Google it, you'll find the jaguar attack, Pantanal you will find where there are half

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killed people. But there is because people get too close to them and they're just, they're

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not afraid of people anymore. Okay. So you find yourself, for example, you should Google

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on the road. There was one case I remember it was a fisherman that left his child on

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a tent in a tent while he was fishing, the jaguar got in the tent and killed the poor

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kid. I mean, these are still rare, but it did happen in Pantanal where jaguars just

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got used to people. But you're not worried when you're in the field looking for your

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arachnids that something like that will happen? No, no, because I know that the area where

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I work in this rainforest are areas where jaguars are known to just flee. They're not

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used to us. They don't see us. I'm not worried about jaguars, life you would. If I was to

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work at Pantanal where there are jaguar attacks, then of course, probably I wouldn't even do

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shoot over there. But in the rainforest where I'm used to working, it's fine. I don't really

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care about it. I care more about snakes than about jaguars. And you go a lot to the rainforest

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in Brazil, right, with your students and- Yes, yes, yes, very often. All our fieldwork,

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except for now that I'm also being collected scorpions, then we go to cemeteries where

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scorpions are easier to find. Cemeteries? Oh, yeah, yeah. They're like quiet places.

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Quiet places and full of roaches. Oh, yeah, because there are roaches there, so the scorpions

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are all there. So it's very common here in Brazil that where there are scorpions invading

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houses, commonly there are cemeteries close to these houses and that's where the scorpions

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come from. Yeah, because they're all over the place, the cemetery, because they eat

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the roaches, their shelter, there's everything they need there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And as

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I said, they like quiet places that haven't been disturbed too much. Yeah, sure. But after

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from that, yeah, the rainforest is where I'm used to going and then I have lots of experiences

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also we can maybe bring us to the next. Yes, yes, yes, please. This was in a rainforest,

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this big area in the south of the state of São Paulo. It's an area that it includes

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tree parks, Carves Botelho, Petar and Intervales. The three of them combined make an area of

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more than 100,000 hectares. So it's a pretty big area, full of jaguars by the way, there

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are more than 30 jaguars that are known there. And so I used to go there to collect my cute

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harvest land, the Opelionids. Yes. So I was in my master thesis by that time and we needed

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50 animals for an experiment we wanted to do. So I calculated that 50 animals maybe the

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entire night, one night would do. So I went to the studio with this friend of mine, a

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girl friend of mine that also worked in the lab. Then we went there with the goal of gathering,

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of collecting 50 animals. So there we are, we set up our tent and then went for collecting

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you know, this amazing rainforest environment, you know, crickets singing and totally dark.

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The only light we could see was the light of our headlamps, this humid environment,

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so really amazing environment. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you're being there. And then, so

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we needed this 50 animals, cool. And then while I was finishing setting up the tent,

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some harvest land of the species I needed were climbing the tent. Oh, perfect. Yeah,

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so then I collected one, then I collected another one, then that happened. Then I put

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one, all climbing the tent. I was like, what's going on? Yeah. And then I started walking,

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moving away from the tent and more harvest land were coming. Oh, it's an invasion. Perfect.

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Then we collected and by, I don't know, maybe in half an hour, we had 50 animals. That is

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really hard to do. Yeah. And I was planning an entire night to get 50 animals. And I was

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like, there's something going on there. So we kept walking away from the tent and there

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was this avalanche of ants, army ants, coming towards the tent. Oh my God, I had never seen

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that. I mean, I had seen army ants before, you know, forming lines, like sometimes large

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lines like this and millions of ants. This time, I swear, it was more than five meters

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wide. And I don't know how many meters long, but millions of ants. Wow. Ants maybe like

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this, army ants, coming towards us. And then of course, all the animals were just waiting,

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moving away from there. And it was coming towards our tent, by the way. Oh yeah, not

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so good. Oh my God. Yeah. Oh my God. It was so amazing. I had never seen it. And then

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we actually saw harvest man being overwhelmed by ants and all the chemical defense, you

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know, that papers talk about. Yes, just shouldn't care about. You were proud of harvest man

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being destroyed by dozens of ants. Okay. But I thought, well, let's see if insect repellent

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might repel them since they are insects. So I remember I grabbed my insect repellent,

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the spray one, then I removed the spray part and I just dropped a line of repellent around

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my tent to see if they would avoid it. Of course. Yeah. You want to do the experiment

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right away. Of course. It's an insect repellent after all. They didn't care. They just walked

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on the repellent as if there wasn't anything there. They just kept walking, kept walking.

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It was, I haven't seen this Indiana Jones and the Crystal School movie where there are

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these army ants that kill people. Kind of like that, but except that there were not

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that big of a force, they moved their non-existing gigantic ants. And of course they don't move

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as fast. I mean, there's still ants. So you just step back and you're safe. It's not like

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the movie where they kill the person, they kill the person, but it's still very, very

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scary. So then, well, we had to move the tent, of course. So then we moved the tent, we crossed

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a stream that was there, set up the tent, some other place. Yeah. And that was that.

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So then we had our 50 ants, but then within half an hour. Perfect. Yeah. So the end of

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the story is that we didn't really have much to do the rest of the night because now we

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had the entire night free. There was me and this good friend of mine. So what do we do

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now? What do we do now? We were by ourselves in the jungle in a tent. So we ended up dating

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for three years after that night. So the ants gave me a girlfriend after that.

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Say no more. Yes. That's the end of the story. Yeah. Well, thank you, army ants. Thanks to

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our army ants. Yeah. Fantastic. It must be great to see a real army moving on the war

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path like that. They eat everything, right? I mean, they don't eat it. And people like

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in Indiana Jones, but I think babies have been killed that have been left behind in

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houses. At least for the African army ants when they come by. Wow. Yeah. That's surprising.

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I mean, if you can escape from them, I mean, if I laid down there and just stayed there,

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I don't know if I would absolutely fight. They will take you apart, I think. Yeah. I

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mean, there are so many. There are so many. Yeah. It's really amazing to see. It was a

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bit scary. Wow. Yeah, no, but it's a fantastic experience and easy to catch. So if you would

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know there was one moving in the neighborhood, you could go there and collect lots and lots

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of critters, I guess. Yeah. I think I've seen army ants before, but always kind of a line,

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sometimes larger, but never as many. As I said, these were pretty big ones. I've seen

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also army ants of smaller species that are really just smaller. These ones are, army

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ants, I think it's a family or family of ants. I don't remember, but there are several species

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that do that. And this one, they were pretty big. Wow. Awesome experience. Yeah. That's

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what you get when you spend a lot of time in the jungle. You get to see all these rare

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occurrences as well. Yeah. And it's not only about the, let's say the biotic environment,

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but also about the adiabatic environment, like the next story about that. So it's actually

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not as minimal, but it happens. Okay. So let's give an introduction. So I used to do this

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field work where we worked on a cave. In a cave, we would collect the data from a cave

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harvester, but to get there, it was a long three hours walk to get to the cave. More

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of course, three hours to get back, in addition to probably half an hour driving. In this

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park, the same area, and I was talking about before, in the park called Intervales. So

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there were five of us. There was me, an ex-girlfriend, by the way, this girl that I was talking about

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that became my girlfriend. By now she was ex, yes? She was still my girlfriend by that

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time. Oh, right, right, right. She's now an ex, but she was still, yeah, we were still

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dating by that time. And there were the two of us, her sister, her boyfriend, and the

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guide. So the guide called Faustine, we talked a lot about it. So five people. So then to

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get to the cave, we would cross several streams, shallow streams, two hours, then we would

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work on a cave the entire day. What we have to realize that when we're in this cave, you

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don't really know what's going on outside because sometimes it's as you were in a mall

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because you don't know if it's sunny, if it's rainy, you don't know what's going on outside.

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And then when we left the cave at maybe five, six PM, maybe it was raining a lot. Then we

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made our walk back to the car. And then after maybe two hours and something, 12 and a half,

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when we're about to cross the last river, last stream actually, well, the stream wasn't

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the stream anymore. The water level was really higher, muddy water, very strong current,

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dangerous troughs. Okay, so then we had to cross it because it was probably around maybe

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10 meters wide if you had to cross. That is a big stream.

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Yeah. 10 meters more or less. And this river would flow into a larger one about 50, 100

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meters ahead from where we were. It would flow into a larger one, which of course deeper

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and even stronger current, so dangerous area to be. And we had to cross it because our

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car was now maybe 15 minutes away from that river. And then Faustino, the guy, was really

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strong built, heavyweight person, he's really strong. He took his machete, not an axe, a

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machete. So machete in Portuguese for those Brazilians that are watching is a facão. It's

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not really an axe. And he knocked down a tree with a machete. He knocked down this big tree

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somehow. I would never do that, but he was. And then he knocked down the tree. This big

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tree, because this tree just crossed all the river, meaning that the tree was less here

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than the width of the river. Then he knocked down the tree. Okay. So now the idea was to

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hold the tree, the tree trunk, and walk sideways with our foot on the sheet of water and trust

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the river. That was the idea. Smart. Yeah. Hold like this and then just cross like this.

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Yeah. Here we go to the other side. Then Ricardo, the boyfriend, my girlfriend's sister, he

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was the first one. So he went on. And so Ricardo, you're going to understand this guy is this

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very calm, quiet, low profile person, very shy. And then he entered there and then not

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even halfway through the river, he said something. Yeah. And I was like, what? Ricardo said that

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again. He's, what? Can't hear you. Yeah. Said louder. And then he was saying help. Oh. But

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in his way, you know, there inside, help, help. Yes. He said, yes, help. Like fucking

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jumping into the water. Like, go faster. Yeah. He jumped into the water, on the tree trunk,

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whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. And so what happened is he lose grip of his feet so that his feet

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were not on the ground anymore. His legs were just like this. Oh yeah. And he was holding

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himself just by the arms on the tree trunk. So if in this situation, if he let go of the

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arms, he fled because I mean, as I told you, the Falling River is a big one. Even bigger.

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So he was pretty much almost getting killed. And what had been is, you know, he's so calm,

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and so calm. And so then, so we got to him, we entangled our arms, we had him between

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us. Yeah. Like with heavy steps so that he could entangle his legs with our legs and

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put his feet back on the floor. And there he was now with his feet back on the floor

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where the three of us holding each other together. Then we got back to where we came from safe.

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We got him out of the water. Then the three of us were safe. But by that time, I mean,

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the guy almost died. The two girls, they were going mad. So and we were all hungry also.

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And you know, her girl, it plays a big role in our humor, right? So it was by now it was

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maybe seven o'clock p.m. We hadn't had dinner yet. So then Faustina and I, we talked about

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and we said, well, maybe why don't we try and cross the river, the two of us, since

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we managed to do the first time when he got Ricardo out of the water. And then we get

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the car. We go to the restaurant. We get food for everybody. Cross the river back. We get

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a rope or something there. And we get a meal for everybody. And then we think what we do.

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Who knows? Maybe the river will just shower. Yeah. I don't know. By the time it wasn't

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raining anymore. OK. Yeah. So this was better. So then we did this. We crossed the river.

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We got the car. We went to the restaurant. We got food for everybody. Faustina got this

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gigantic rope, big, big, long rope. We went back to the car. We crossed the river. And

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then there we were. We were having this meal. Everybody was slightly taller. But it helps.

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Yeah. I was having an amazing time, by the way. Faustina and I were like, we were feeling

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adventurous, you know. Yeah. It's just so wild. We are helping and we are crossing the

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river. And we were like, wow, this is so fun. So much fun. So then OK. So then now everybody

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is fed. We're OK. And then so the idea for Faustina had is OK. So here we go. There's

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a tree trunk here. I'm going to tie the rope on top of the tree trunk, parallel to the

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tree trunk, also crossing the river on trees this side and this side so that we can walk

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sideways on the tree trunk holding in the rope so that our food won't be in the water.

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And we just walk and we get the other side. A real bridge. Yeah, man. Like a bridge. Exactly.

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But then Faustina, he built somehow with the same rope that he used to cross the river

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parallel to the tree trunk. He made what's called a harness. OK. So a harness for Brazilians

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that are listening to is what we call a cadeirinha. You know, that people, it's a gear with buckles

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and straps that you tie, you wear around your waist and your thighs. And people use it for

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mountaineering, for climbing. So he built one of these with the same rope. I don't know

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how he did this. He did a bunch of knots and loops and whatever. I don't know why he did

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this. So that when we were crossing the river, we were wearing this harness. Fantastic. Yeah,

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fantastic. So if we slip and fell, then we wouldn't die. He's a real pro. Yeah, he's

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a real pro. This guy is a mink. Yeah. Sure enough, then we cross the river this way safely.

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I don't have a picture of this exact moment. I do have a picture. I can try and find this,

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but I have a picture when Ricardo was saying in hell, I have a picture of that moment because

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I didn't hear that. No, no, no. I didn't know what he was saying. And I have a picture of

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the exact moment when he was saying hell, especially when I realized he was saying hell,

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I just dropped the camera. But I don't have a picture of us crossing because then, you

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know, everybody was really stressed and they didn't allow me. Yeah, I can imagine. When

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I was trying to get a picture, they were like, I don't have a picture. Anyway, so we were

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saying... You can joke with people. I just want the last picture of you, you know.

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And it's funny, so I'll stand there and this guy, whenever I go there, whenever everybody that knows

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me go there, the park, he always tells the story. This has been more than 20 years ago. And every

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time, every time he tells the story, he's such a nice guy. And then except when he tells the story,

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the water level was probably slightly higher than our knees, I would say. Somewhere between the knees

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and the waist. But because of the water and the courage, it's so strong. If it goes fast enough,

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that's gonna sweep you away. Yeah, totally. I mean, but when you say, okay, the water level is

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slightly above their knees, it doesn't seem so scary. But with water current, it is

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really dangerous. So when Faustino tells the story, he said, remember, the water was above our knees.

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The water gets higher after 20 years, I guess. There we go. It's just like the bear story I told

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you. If you ask Gabrielle how close was the bear, he's gonna say 10 meters away. That's a lie.

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It feels close because there's nowhere to hide. I mean, yeah. That is true. It's just close.

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Anyway, so everybody was alive after that. Oh, good. And well fed, too.

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It's so amazing that you went to a restaurant to get food first. I mean, that's

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very, that's for me, it's the funniest part of the story, actually.

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Well, you are, but when I'm hungry, I agree to be fed. I mean, I can't think, I can't do anything

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if I'm hungry. Well, I'm glad you feel the same because sometimes you're in the field with these

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people who don't need food and they're the most annoying people in the world. Yeah, I got it. I

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don't know. You have an amazing food experience too, so I don't know if for you it's the same.

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You also have to eat all the time and be fed. Yeah, I get quirky without it.

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Definitely. That was the thing. Everybody was getting cranked. All the five of us because we

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were all hungry basically. Totally cold in the rain. Also, yeah, everything is worse when you're

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hungry. So getting the meal was the priority there. Can I just ask, what were you looking for in the

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cave? So we were doing, so this was the project of this girl, Marie-Claire. We published a couple

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of papers together. She's called Keline. People can find that on Google. So she was doing,

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what was it again? She was asking if different, so there are two morphs of males, the larger ones

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and the smaller ones. So the alpha ones and the beta ones and the females. And she was trying

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to understand if the area they use is different since the larger ones are supposedly territorial.

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They defend territory from other males, so they should have a larger area. Then the smaller one,

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there are sneakers and just sneaking in the territory of the larger one. She was looking

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at that among other things. She was also measuring all the animals, the morphological differences

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between the large males and the small males to see if it corresponds to the non-bimodal distribution

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or not. Or if just a range of different males that is not really a bimodal distribution. I mean,

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she was doing all kinds of stuff with the... So that was already a day with a lot of complex

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measurements and observations in the cave then. Yeah, we would spend the entire day there. So

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the... Yeah, it was really... We were usually really tired after this entire day of work because

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we woke up very early, maybe five o'clock to be in, to walk three hours and work the entire day,

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and then walk two hours back to the... So yeah, it was... We all were tired after each day of work.

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And as you said, it's raining, so you start getting a bit cold when you stop walking.

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So by the end of the day, you're tired, you're sleepy, you're hungry, you're dirty. So the

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discussion when we used to go to this field was always when we were about to get in the car,

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what would you prefer right now if you had to pick one? Meal, shower, or sleep?

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And then we had the discussion, what would be better if you could pick only one? Because...

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Anyway. Speaking of picking, if you could pick only one, what animal would you still like to see in

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the wild? You went out of your way to see a bear, so I'm just curious to see if there's anything else.

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Well, I can think of many. One that I would love to see that I've never seen, and I don't think I

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will see, is a snake called Lacuzis. It's a big viper. We call it Surucucu in Brazil. And the thing

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about this viper is that it can reach up to four meters long. Bushmaster, I think, in English.

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Bushmaster? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I would love to see one of these because I've seen

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vipers, several ones, botrops. I would say often, but I've seen many. In 20 years, I've seen many of

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these. Several times we walked on top of it because we didn't see it. It did happen a couple of times.

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When they are hiding behind tree trunks, falling tree trunks, they're just like this.

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And you come from here, you walk, you walk, and then you see the snake is just there.

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Okay. Wow. So I have had several encounters with vipers. I've seen a lot of them.

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I've had several encounters with vipers, but always these botrops ones. There are amazing snakes,

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but there's smaller ones. And these Lacuzis, I have only one friend that has seen one in the

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field because they're also not easy to see, not even in the south of Brazil. In the Amazon,

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apparently, not the Amazon. Anyway, some other areas in Brazil, they're easier to see, but where

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I work, you can't. Big snakes, especially big vipers are usually very low density, right?

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And they're well camouflaged. So even if there is one nearby. I think the first episode of the

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podcast, Ignacio finds a Lacuzis. He tells a story about that. So maybe you want to listen to that.

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I'm going to watch this for sure. Yeah. Another Brazil, but yeah.

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Okay. What do you do? Which animals? Oh God.

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Don't ask me. It will change every time you ask me, I think.

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No, I like caves, especially I like seeing the, the emblem pigeons, the whip spiders in the caves.

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I can go a hundred times and be amazed a hundred times. It's a wonderful thing to do.

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And this was something in, you know, so in Sao Paulo, we have a species of Ambatreja,

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you know, genus Carinus. It's a very small one. But then, so I was just seeing this animal.

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I actually have a study on this species. But when I went to the Amazon forest,

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there, not only there, but also more to the northeast of Brazil, but in the Amazon forest,

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I've seen just gigantic ones, you know, giant, and the pigeons and there's so huge area. It's

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because they're there standing on tree trunks and you see spiders here in the south of Brazil.

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Yeah. But then instead of spiders, they're

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at the pigeons and then get there. Yeah.

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Over the place. Lots of them.

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Lots of them. It's amazing. I mean, the first time I've seen it, I'm like, oh my God.

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Oh my God. So cool. So cool.

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It's nice to see those animals in the wild. I mean, I've studied them in the lab,

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but to see them in the wild, you understand them much better.

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Yeah. And you said,

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no, all of them are amazing. It's hard to pick one or two that.

365
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Yeah. They're just so good.

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Of course. Of course.

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Bushmaster is on the list then.

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Yeah. Okay. If you want to know more about your research or want to follow you on social media,

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where do we go? Okay. So probably my website

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called Lisca. So it's in Portuguese. The name is in Portuguese, but it's the sensory college

371
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and behavior of arthropods. Yes.

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I actually have been working only on arachnids. I've been thinking about changing this name for

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laboratory of arachnids instead of arthropods. But anyway, it's still officially it's arthropods.

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Then you can find it on my website. What we do, our main research lines, papers, collaborators,

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it's all there. Okay. I will make a link with this podcast

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to your website. And with that.

377
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:46,320
Thanks very much. Thank you very much for your stories, Rodrigo.

378
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:50,000
I am, yeah, we definitely need to go into the field together someday

379
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:52,000
and find some more arachnids.

380
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:57,040
All right. Thank you very much for having me. It was a pleasure, pleasure and an honor to be here

381
00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:03,600
talking with this big shot professor, Ari. Thank you very much for having me, Ari. Yeah.

382
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:05,600
All right. Thank you, Rodrigo.

383
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:19,680
Thank you. Bye bye.