1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:14,700 Joining me at the campfire today is Marianne Porter. 2 00:00:14,700 --> 00:00:20,040 Marianne is associate professor at the Florida Atlantic University where she runs the Florida 3 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:24,520 Atlantic Biomechanics Laboratory, also known as the FAB Lab. 4 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:25,680 Much better name. 5 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:29,360 There, she works on biomechanics and functional morphology. 6 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:35,120 Now, by looking at the properties of biological materials such as cartilage and bone and what 7 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:41,440 organisms use those materials for, such as for swimming or feeding, she helps us to understand 8 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:45,760 how organisms like sharks and fish work. 9 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:53,520 And she uses that information to develop new bio-inspired materials and also robot fish. 10 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:56,880 Marianne, welcome to the podcast. 11 00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:58,160 Thank you for having me. 12 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:02,320 That was probably one of the best summaries of my research that anyone's ever done. 13 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:04,760 Yay, I hit it right there. 14 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:09,800 Well, if people know your research, they're going to want me to ask this question. 15 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:12,640 So I'm sorry, we have to get it out of the way. 16 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:15,360 People will want to know this one from you. 17 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:16,960 Right? 18 00:01:16,960 --> 00:01:23,480 So how close are you to building robot sharks with friggin' laser beams on their heads? 19 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:28,400 I'm personally not very close at all. 20 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:38,320 We have been focusing a lot of our time recently more on like CT scans and actual swimming 21 00:01:38,320 --> 00:01:39,880 fish. 22 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:49,840 So the attachment of laser beams to the robot sharks is far away in my lab, but I think 23 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:52,640 there are some other labs that are actually pretty close to that. 24 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:54,480 So watch out, world. 25 00:01:54,480 --> 00:02:00,080 Well, I think there's some good Dr. Evil funding that way if you want it. 26 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:05,840 As long as I can have my cat with me to do all this research. 27 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:06,840 What is it? 28 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:07,840 Wigglesworth? 29 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:08,840 That'd be good. 30 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:09,840 Awesome. 31 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:15,080 Now, that was, of course, a silly question, but I know you make these awesome robot fish 32 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:17,600 and I really like the work you've done. 33 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:23,120 And congratulations with your new paper on how, well, cartilaginous fish, I shouldn't 34 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:26,720 call them fish, chondrichtious smell underwater. 35 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:29,600 That was a very nice one. 36 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:31,600 But you didn't start with fish. 37 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:33,340 I think you started with plants. 38 00:02:33,340 --> 00:02:37,200 So can you tell us a little bit how you got started? 39 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:38,440 Yeah. 40 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:47,080 So I actually started out my life as a biologist, as a scientist, even as a plant ecologist. 41 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:53,320 And so one of my favorite stories to tell is about how I got started as a scientist 42 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:58,380 because it remains still something that I think about every day. 43 00:02:58,380 --> 00:03:01,140 And it definitely got me started on my journey. 44 00:03:01,140 --> 00:03:07,120 So this is a story for all the young scientists out there who are just beginning their careers 45 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:11,960 and just beginning sort of their paths forward as a scientist. 46 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:18,720 And so way back, nearly 30 years ago now, I think, if I have to do that head math real 47 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:24,680 quick, I was an undergraduate student at Northern Arizona University. 48 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:28,640 So that's something everybody always asked me too is like, oh, you must have grown up 49 00:03:28,640 --> 00:03:30,620 near the ocean because you study sharks. 50 00:03:30,620 --> 00:03:33,720 I'm actually from Arizona in the United States. 51 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:40,880 I assume your podcast viewership is variable around our lovely planet. 52 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:42,760 Very few sharks there. 53 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:43,760 Exactly. 54 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:49,080 So Arizona, it's a desert and there's actually a really big pine forest in Northern Arizona. 55 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:55,520 And so I was a student at Northern Arizona University and I was majoring in zoology. 56 00:03:55,520 --> 00:04:01,360 So I was working towards my zoology degree and I had wanted to be a scientist, but I 57 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:03,400 didn't know how to do that. 58 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:07,920 I had read a lot of national geographics and watched all the nature shows and I knew I 59 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:11,800 love science and wanted to be a scientist, but I didn't know how. 60 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:16,800 How does one do that aside from picking a major or a degree in the sciences? 61 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:19,160 And so I was taking one of my classes. 62 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:23,680 It was actually my ecology class and I loved my professor. 63 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:28,480 It was Dr. Tom Widom, who was at Northern Arizona for a very long time. 64 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:31,400 He's a brilliant plant ecologist. 65 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:36,560 And I was loving my class so much that I went to talk to him in office hours, which I'd 66 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:40,440 never gone to office hours before because I didn't even know what they were. 67 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:45,360 So also for all the students watching, especially in the United States, professors have office 68 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:50,880 hours, which is a time where you can go ask them questions about their research, the class, 69 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:51,880 whatever. 70 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:56,800 It's time that professors have to give to students outside of the classroom time, FYI. 71 00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:03,920 Anyway, so I went to office hours and Dr. Widom was like, hey, you're getting an A in 72 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:10,120 my class and you seem really interested in this, would you like to do research and do 73 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:12,920 research in my lab with one of my grad students? 74 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:14,920 And I was like, that sounds amazing. 75 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:17,480 I don't know anything about what this means. 76 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:22,600 And so he was describing a project where we would be working in the Pinion Pine Forest, 77 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:26,880 where he had a whole bunch of his research for literally decades. 78 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:35,200 And we would be looking at a moth, which is a keystone species in that system. 79 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:39,960 And so this moth is really important because it is a cone boring moth. 80 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:42,400 So it eats all the cones off of pine trees. 81 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:44,960 The cones hold seeds, right? 82 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:50,360 So if you are destroying all the cones and the seeds, you are basically taking away the 83 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:52,280 pine tree's ability to reproduce. 84 00:05:52,280 --> 00:05:55,480 So these moths are like changing the whole ecosystem. 85 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:58,820 And is that a moth that belongs? 86 00:05:58,820 --> 00:06:00,820 Is that in equilibrium with those trees? 87 00:06:00,820 --> 00:06:03,600 It's been there forever or is that an introduced species? 88 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:05,600 Yeah, it's a native moth. 89 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:07,640 It just lives there. 90 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:12,440 And the system, he knows so much about it because he studied it for literal decades. 91 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:17,000 There's actually other things going on, several other insects that are really important in 92 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:18,000 that system. 93 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:19,000 But I was focused on the moths. 94 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:23,580 And what was really important for me is that gave me my very first field experience. 95 00:06:23,580 --> 00:06:28,000 So I got to learn what it was to be a field biologist and go out in the field. 96 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:33,840 So I learned about waking up early to go out in the field, even if it was snowing, even 97 00:06:33,840 --> 00:06:36,680 if it was hot. 98 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:40,560 We would go out, we would count the moths, we would measure the trees. 99 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:47,520 So I had a lot of sap in my hair and pull over my body because I had to get all up in 100 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:52,120 these pine trees to get the moths, measure the trees. 101 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:58,840 And what was really great about this experience is I learned some really overarching lessons 102 00:06:58,840 --> 00:07:03,720 in science that, again, really do stick with me today. 103 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:10,120 And so one of the things Dr. Widom always used to ask us is, well, what is the question? 104 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:13,360 What is the actual question you're trying to answer? 105 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:17,780 Which is something I have to ask myself all the time because you start going down rabbit 106 00:07:17,780 --> 00:07:18,780 holes in your data. 107 00:07:18,780 --> 00:07:19,780 Yeah. 108 00:07:19,780 --> 00:07:23,200 And you're like, oh, there's this and this and this, but it's really important to step 109 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:26,480 back and think about what am I trying to answer? 110 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:29,360 What are my data actually telling me? 111 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:33,760 And so that's a really great overarching theme that I ask myself all the time and I teach 112 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:40,160 my students and they come in and they're spinning out of control in space, as it were. 113 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:41,280 What is the question? 114 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:44,840 What are we trying to accomplish here? 115 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:50,480 And it was something that being out in the field, you really observe and have to think 116 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:52,020 about what your questions are. 117 00:07:52,020 --> 00:07:57,320 So you're really working on that very first steps of the scientific method. 118 00:07:57,320 --> 00:07:59,040 What are your observations? 119 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:02,480 And then developing those questions and hypotheses. 120 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:07,920 And so sometimes finding out that you're not asking the right question is huge. 121 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:09,040 Yeah. 122 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:13,440 Or you realize after you've done an experiment in the lab that you did an experiment that 123 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:16,640 doesn't answer your question and you realize you have to do it all again. 124 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:17,640 Right? 125 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:18,640 Oh dear. 126 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:19,640 Yeah. 127 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:23,280 You're like, oh, turns out that didn't quite work out the way I expected it to. 128 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:25,840 But that's like science and the scientific method, right? 129 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:30,520 You've got to keep moving forward and sometimes do it over. 130 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:36,480 And so the what is the question was a huge lesson I learned from this and being out and 131 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:40,720 about with the trees in the snow and the sun. 132 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:47,040 The other thing that I really learned from those experiences is if you're trying to observe 133 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:52,920 something and make those initial observations, sometimes it really helps to look at the extremes. 134 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:58,960 And so that's where going out in the snow turns out to be really important. 135 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:00,320 What does it look like in winter? 136 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:02,040 What does it look like in summer? 137 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:06,400 If you're looking at something in sort of different elevations, what happens at the 138 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:08,920 highest elevation, lowest elevation? 139 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:10,800 What happens at different points in the trees? 140 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:17,200 So really looking at extremes in your system and what you're trying to study in nature 141 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:18,640 is huge. 142 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:20,700 And you can do that anywhere, right? 143 00:09:20,700 --> 00:09:24,300 Walking around your neighborhood, you see a bird you've never seen before. 144 00:09:24,300 --> 00:09:25,300 That's like an extreme. 145 00:09:25,300 --> 00:09:26,640 That's something that's different. 146 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:28,040 Like what's going on there? 147 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:29,640 Where was that bird? 148 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:32,360 Or you can do it anywhere. 149 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:37,000 Walking around our campus, we have raccoons that are very bold and are out during the 150 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:39,480 day, which is not what raccoons usually do. 151 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:41,840 So I'm like, that's an extreme behavior. 152 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:45,240 You are very habituated to humans. 153 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:46,920 So we kind of look for that. 154 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:53,200 And it's actually turned out to be, again, another important theme and lesson that I 155 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:56,780 carried throughout my career looking at extremes. 156 00:09:56,780 --> 00:10:02,560 So a lot of my papers are on the weird sharks or the sharks doing weird things. 157 00:10:02,560 --> 00:10:05,960 You mentioned the sharks that get out of the water and walk. 158 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:06,960 So how do they do that? 159 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:08,560 What do they do? 160 00:10:08,560 --> 00:10:15,560 So that's like a pretty extreme behavior for a fish to leave the water and wander around. 161 00:10:15,560 --> 00:10:21,160 And we just had a paper come out where we were looking at how the vertebral columns, 162 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:25,620 the spines of thresher sharks are mineralized. 163 00:10:25,620 --> 00:10:31,120 Thinking about how does that sort of help us tell the story about why and how thresher 164 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:35,800 sharks use that giant tail to whip the tail over their heads. 165 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:42,320 And then I've also done a number of studies on hammerheads. 166 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:47,240 So got the hammerheads with the weird head that sticks out to the side. 167 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:54,200 Very different than basically any shark or any fish or any organism you will look at. 168 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:59,920 And so sort of looking at those extremes to kind of understand your system. 169 00:10:59,920 --> 00:11:06,600 So those are sort of my big life lessons that I have gotten from the very beginning of my 170 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:10,440 career that actually still stick out. 171 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:19,520 And I like to remember my life as a plant ecologist and also use it as an opportunity 172 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:25,240 to remind students and early career scientists that your questions and the skills you're 173 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:27,360 learning are huge. 174 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:32,800 So I often have students who want to talk to me about, well, how do I study sharks? 175 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:35,360 I'm like, well, first you have to become a scientist. 176 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:40,320 Look for opportunities that are going to help you learn how to become a scientist. 177 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:45,880 And those were all very important things I learned from the trees and the mobs in northern 178 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:46,880 Arizona. 179 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:47,880 Yeah. 180 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:51,200 You really learn to look at nature in a very different way. 181 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:55,760 So other people would just be annoyed by the raccoons during the daytime. 182 00:11:55,760 --> 00:12:00,160 You think about, oh, wait a minute, there's something going on. 183 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:01,160 Yeah. 184 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:02,160 There is something going on. 185 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:06,360 They like to steal the lunches that the students throw into the trash and leave behind. 186 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:11,640 So it makes a lot of sense to be out during the day on a college campus, on a university 187 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:12,640 campus. 188 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:15,920 There are far more snacks available. 189 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:17,480 Yeah, that makes sense. 190 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:18,480 That makes sense. 191 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:22,600 But they do walk around campus kind of like you would see cats or dogs walking around 192 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:24,600 and normally they're just like, are around. 193 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:26,800 I like raccoons, they're they're badass. 194 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:29,160 They're pretty wild. 195 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:30,680 Amazing. 196 00:12:30,680 --> 00:12:35,000 And you don't need to to drop yourself in the middle of the ocean and chase sharks to 197 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:36,000 be a scientist. 198 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:42,160 You can just look at moths or raccoons or anything in your backyard. 199 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:45,080 Anyplace you can make an observation about something weird. 200 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:47,640 Yeah, there are things to be discovered there. 201 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:48,640 Right. 202 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:49,640 Yeah. 203 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:53,600 But you did transition to to sharks at some point. 204 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:56,040 I did during my PhD. 205 00:12:56,040 --> 00:13:01,640 I had an opportunity to start working in Adam Summer's lab where he was working on biomechanics. 206 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:02,640 That's how we met. 207 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:03,640 Yes. 208 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:05,760 Way back in the day in California. 209 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:11,840 And so this gave me a real opportunity to take some of those life lessons I learned 210 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:19,800 on how to be a scientist and start working in a system and the kind of science that was 211 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:24,640 dramatically different from anything I had been trained to do as a field ecologist. 212 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:25,640 Yeah. 213 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:31,400 And biomechanics and ecology are very far apart, pretty much, especially organismal 214 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:34,160 biomechanics and plant ecology. 215 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:36,880 Yeah, real different. 216 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:42,040 But again, like I had those big questions and sort of skills as a scientist that I was 217 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:49,960 able to take advantage of as I started my academic journey as a biomechanist and shark scientist. 218 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:55,000 And that has led me to some really exciting places. 219 00:13:55,000 --> 00:14:01,720 And I wanted to share a couple of stories with you about a few of the sort of things 220 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:03,560 that had happened along the way. 221 00:14:03,560 --> 00:14:08,480 These are a little bit less academic sort of things that happened to me underwater while 222 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:09,920 scuba diving. 223 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:15,760 Again, it's those observational skills that are going to be important here. 224 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:22,680 So the first story I want to tell you about was one of my wildest scuba dives ever. 225 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:24,280 Actually, this is my next two stories. 226 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:26,680 You've scuba dived in a lot of places in the world. 227 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:27,680 I have. 228 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:33,840 I have been lucky enough to be able to go a lot of places. 229 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:37,320 Again, those observational skills are huge, right? 230 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:41,480 Being what an animal does underwater gives me a ton of ideas of things that I want to 231 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:47,120 explore, look at in my lab and helping me think about what those next questions are. 232 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:48,480 It's that observation. 233 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:49,480 What is the question? 234 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:52,280 What's happening here that I can look at? 235 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:53,880 And again, the extremes. 236 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:56,480 You're out underwater and you see this extreme thing happen. 237 00:14:56,480 --> 00:15:00,120 You're like, oh, what should I do with that? 238 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:01,320 So you need to get out there. 239 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:03,560 You need to observe your organism. 240 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:04,560 Yeah. 241 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:10,160 But I will add as sort of an accessibility thing, you don't have to be a scuba diver 242 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:13,160 to be a marine biologist or study sharks. 243 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:16,480 Most of my research does not require me to scuba dive. 244 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:17,480 It's what I do for fun. 245 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:20,680 Like I said, it's where I get my inspiration and ideas. 246 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:26,120 So it does definitely help me for my work, but is not a requirement. 247 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:31,840 The ocean is huge and it has a million different questions and organisms for people to look 248 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:33,080 at and explore. 249 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:35,360 So there's a lot of opportunities there. 250 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:42,880 But I want to tell you about one of the really interesting sort of field adventures I had 251 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:47,280 in Hawaii on the big island of Hawaii. 252 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:53,320 I was diving at a place called Huako, which is a pretty popular and well-known dive site. 253 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:55,680 Is that from a boat or from the shore? 254 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:56,680 From the shore. 255 00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:57,680 Okay. 256 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:02,520 And so you drive to this little place, you get out and the dive shop had told us, you 257 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:06,440 know, this is where a sea turtle cleaning station is. 258 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:07,440 And that's always fun. 259 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:13,120 So what a sea turtle cleaning station is, is sea turtles can swim by a particular area 260 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:16,640 and a bunch of fish come up and start cleaning the algae off of them. 261 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:21,280 So this happens in a lot of animals and the people at the dive shop had said, oh, there 262 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:23,360 was a sea turtle cleaning station there yesterday. 263 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:24,800 Like you should go out there and check it out. 264 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:27,000 So we're like, okay, cool. 265 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:28,400 And this is Hawaii. 266 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:34,640 So a lot of volcanic activity historically, currently, and as a result, there are a bunch 267 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:40,680 of places you've got these little caves, like tunnels you can swim through, arches you can 268 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:41,680 swim through. 269 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:43,380 So it's a really great coral. 270 00:16:43,380 --> 00:16:46,680 It's really great place to see a lot of structure when you scoop it up. 271 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:47,800 I imagine, yeah. 272 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:53,400 So I go out and I'm looking for the turtles and their cleaning station with my dive buddy. 273 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:57,200 And here's the reason I think this is an interesting story. 274 00:16:57,200 --> 00:16:58,560 The cleaning station was really neat. 275 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:03,360 We were able to watch the turtles and all the fish carefully picking all the algae off. 276 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:08,840 Then I heard the weirdest thing I've heard in my entire life. 277 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:12,120 This is why the story I think is interesting. 278 00:17:12,120 --> 00:17:13,120 You're underwater. 279 00:17:13,120 --> 00:17:16,040 So sound travels really far and really well. 280 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:17,040 Yeah. 281 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:19,840 If you're underwater, you can hear people rattling change. 282 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:23,840 So that's a way divers get other people's attention. 283 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:26,400 You can hear boats going by. 284 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:30,040 You can hear a lot of stuff underwater because sound is going to travel so well. 285 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:36,600 I heard this noise that was the weirdest thing I have ever heard about water and underwater. 286 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:40,400 And it was all encompassing. 287 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:41,400 And I was like... 288 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:42,400 Oh, scary. 289 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:44,360 It was scary. 290 00:17:44,360 --> 00:17:48,920 And there were big boats around. 291 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:52,600 And so I was looking at my dive buddy, I was like, what is that? 292 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:53,600 And they're like, ah. 293 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:58,800 And my dive buddy was completely unconcerned about this super weird and it lasted a couple 294 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:01,280 of seconds sound that we heard. 295 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:04,480 And he was like, I don't know, boat? 296 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:06,360 I don't think that was a boat. 297 00:18:06,360 --> 00:18:09,560 There is no way that was a boat. 298 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:13,240 And so I had lived in California for a long time. 299 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:14,240 We were in Hawaii. 300 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:18,720 These are both places where earthquakes are a common thing. 301 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:20,680 I'm thinking about what is this? 302 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:22,960 This noise was all around me. 303 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:24,080 I could feel it. 304 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:26,080 It was weird. 305 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:30,520 And so I was like, I think that there was just an earthquake. 306 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:35,320 So then my thought is, oh, that's when tsunamis happen. 307 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:37,040 We should go. 308 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:42,240 And my dive buddy looks at their air supply and they're like, no, no, we're good. 309 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:43,240 Let's keep going. 310 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:44,240 Are you okay? 311 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:45,240 I'm like, yeah, I'm okay. 312 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:46,240 But I think we should go up. 313 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:49,080 And they're like, oh no, let's go. 314 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:52,240 So then I'm like, okay, fine. 315 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:54,320 Hopefully there's no tsunami coming. 316 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:55,320 Wow. 317 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:56,320 Okay. 318 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:57,320 It's fine. 319 00:18:57,320 --> 00:18:58,320 Yeah. 320 00:18:58,320 --> 00:18:59,320 It's hard to communicate underwater, right? 321 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:00,960 I mean, you can't just say it. 322 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:02,960 And so I was looking at the time. 323 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:06,680 I'm like, okay, we've got maybe five more minutes of this dive anyway, whatever. 324 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:08,920 So we're going around. 325 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:11,520 My dive buddy is swimming under the arches. 326 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:14,960 I'm thinking if that was an earthquake, this stuff might all move. 327 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:15,960 That's a bad idea. 328 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:19,560 So I'm pulling them backwards and they're going in because they want to take a picture 329 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:21,560 and I'm pulling them out. 330 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:26,880 I'm still thinking and gesturing like we should go up. 331 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:31,000 So finally they're like, okay, let's go. 332 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:34,000 But they're pointing at their air gauge, really annoyed. 333 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:35,600 I've still got tons of air. 334 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:37,200 You've still got tons of air. 335 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:38,200 What is your deal? 336 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:39,800 And I'm like, no, no, let's go. 337 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:43,040 There's no hand gesture for earthquake, right? 338 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:50,720 It is more like you listen to me going up. 339 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:54,640 So when you start getting more dramatic with your gestures, your dive buddy is going to 340 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:55,640 listen to you. 341 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:56,640 I was like, stop it. 342 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:57,720 Let's go. 343 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:04,000 And so we get out of the water and there's no one on the beach. 344 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:05,960 There were people on the beach when we got into the water. 345 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:10,200 So it was like, yeah, I was like, well, okay. 346 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:15,360 But you know, I have not been in a tsunami, but I assume there are sirens or some sort 347 00:20:15,360 --> 00:20:16,360 of communication happening. 348 00:20:16,360 --> 00:20:18,540 It was totally silent. 349 00:20:18,540 --> 00:20:21,240 So I'm kind of like, okay. 350 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:23,840 And then we're driving back up the hill to the dive store anyway. 351 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:28,560 So we get in the car and I'm like, did you hear that? 352 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:29,560 I think it was an earthquake. 353 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:31,040 And they're like, no, it was a big boat. 354 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:33,160 I'm like, that was not a boat. 355 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:37,320 Like I said, the absolute weirdest noise I've ever heard in my entire life. 356 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:44,400 So then we were able to drive up to the dive store and they were like, oh, did you guys 357 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:45,400 feel the earthquake? 358 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:46,400 And I was like, see? 359 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:49,080 I'm like, we were underwater during the earthquake. 360 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:50,080 Wow. 361 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:53,080 That is one of the rarest experiences a person can have. 362 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:56,560 I mean, being underwater with an earthquake. 363 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:57,560 Right. 364 00:20:57,560 --> 00:20:59,600 And so it was wild. 365 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:01,600 They were like, oh no, there was an earthquake. 366 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,200 And I was like, see, I told you, we should have gotten out. 367 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:06,560 And I'm like, do we need to worry about tsunamis? 368 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:10,160 Like living in California, I'm like, but I, earthquakes happen. 369 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:15,440 It's something a little scary in the moment, but you know, it happens in most of the time. 370 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:16,960 It's like fine. 371 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:19,480 And so they're like, oh no, there's no tsunami warning warning. 372 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:20,480 You're fine. 373 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:21,480 I'm like, okay. 374 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:24,200 But then to my dive buddy, I was like, see, I told you so. 375 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:28,200 Like you've got to listen to me. 376 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:33,720 But then our next stop was to go hiking in Volcanoes National Park. 377 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:39,520 And by the volcano, they have all the earthquake activity, like in one of their visitor centers. 378 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:45,880 So we were actually able to go back and look at the seismic activity at the time of our 379 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:50,800 dive and like see the earthquake on all the instruments. 380 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:58,560 But that was, I think probably one of the wildest field adventures I ever had. 381 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:01,280 That's a super rare, weird experience. 382 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:03,520 Can you describe what it sounded like or what it felt like? 383 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:07,360 I mean, did the water also shake or did you not feel it in the water? 384 00:22:07,360 --> 00:22:11,520 I didn't feel it in the water, but it was like an all encompassing sound. 385 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:13,780 Like it felt like it was vibrating my body. 386 00:22:13,780 --> 00:22:17,520 But also like, you know, when you hear a boat go by underwater, it's got a direction. 387 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:19,920 Like there's a directionality to it. 388 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:24,360 Like if someone shakes a chain underwater as a diver to get attention of other divers, 389 00:22:24,360 --> 00:22:25,960 you can tell which direction it is. 390 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:29,760 So you know which direction to look and you can see like the person and be like, oh, okay. 391 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:31,400 You know where the boat is. 392 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:35,920 This was like literally surrounding in all directions. 393 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:39,040 And I was like, okay, like where did that come from? 394 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:41,520 And I was looking like, is there a giant boat here? 395 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:42,840 Like we're pretty close to shore. 396 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:46,320 I don't, but yeah, it was wild. 397 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:51,280 And then I was looking, I'm like the sea turtles at this cleaning station had long since gone 398 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:52,280 away. 399 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:53,280 I'm like, are the animals doing anything weird? 400 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,600 Do I need to like, yeah, they usually know, right? 401 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:58,600 They usually know what's going on. 402 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:03,400 They had already like moved on just kind of naturally, I think, but I don't know. 403 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:04,400 Yeah. 404 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:06,280 It was super weird. 405 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:08,840 Well, talk about an extreme observation. 406 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:09,840 Right. 407 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:13,800 One that I will never forget. 408 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:17,680 And like, I like to be safe in the field. 409 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,000 Like I hope that I'd never time that quite right like that again. 410 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:24,120 No, but it's an awesome experience. 411 00:23:24,120 --> 00:23:25,120 Come on. 412 00:23:25,120 --> 00:23:30,240 It would be very interesting to know if sea turtles actually move away from the shore 413 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:33,840 to avoid tsunami like, you know, damage. 414 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:34,840 Yeah. 415 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:35,840 I don't know. 416 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:43,000 We have some evidence that like in South Florida here where I live now, the sharks from the 417 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:47,520 tagging data, it seems like they move deeper into deeper water when there's a hurricane 418 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:48,520 coming. 419 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:55,680 So I'm sure other animals have their own ways of doing their thing to make sure they're 420 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:57,760 not stuck in a bad situation. 421 00:23:57,760 --> 00:23:58,760 Yeah. 422 00:23:58,760 --> 00:23:59,760 Yeah. 423 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,320 But yeah, I was looking for that turtle. 424 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:08,600 Like, is anyone else still around or is just us idiots in the water? 425 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:09,600 Only fools and horses. 426 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:10,600 Yeah. 427 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:11,600 Wow. 428 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:12,600 Exactly. 429 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:20,280 But that was, I think, one of my most memorable days kind of outside in the field. 430 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:27,400 I'm going to share my next story with you, which is actually something that is probably 431 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:32,920 something way more people have experienced, but it was an amazing opportunity for me. 432 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:33,920 Okay. 433 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:39,840 So this next story happens in the Bahamas, which is really close to where I live again 434 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:40,840 here. 435 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:42,640 Nobody's feeling sorry for you with these stories, by the way. 436 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:44,120 You understand that, right? 437 00:24:44,120 --> 00:24:45,120 I know. 438 00:24:45,120 --> 00:24:52,160 Like I said, I have been very lucky to be able to look at animals and dive a bunch of 439 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:59,400 places and I got to live and hike in Northern Arizona where we have the Grand Canyon. 440 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:03,840 So I've gotten to work in a lot of really beautiful places and take advantage of being 441 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,440 outside and making those observations. 442 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:12,280 But yeah, so this next story happens in the Bahamas and the Bahamas is a really amazing 443 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:13,280 place. 444 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:15,160 Again, it's close to where I live in South Florida. 445 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:20,280 So it's someplace that's not super difficult for me to get to. 446 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:27,080 And as a government and as a people, the Bahamas have been really proactive about conservation. 447 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:31,760 So they have a lot of policies and rules in place. 448 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:38,080 So it is an amazing place to visit and look at wildlife, especially for scuba diving. 449 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:45,680 And they have places like Tiger Beach and near Tiger Beach where there are really great, 450 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:50,480 relatively shallow reefs that you can dive on and see some of these amazing big sharks 451 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:52,080 swim through. 452 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:54,960 And so that's what happens in my next story. 453 00:25:54,960 --> 00:26:02,200 Again, I'm scuba diving and they were telling us on the boat, like, okay, you might see 454 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:03,200 some big sharks. 455 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:04,200 I'm like, cool. 456 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:05,200 That's why I'm here. 457 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:06,740 Love to see them. 458 00:26:06,740 --> 00:26:09,960 This is why the beach is called Tiger Beach. 459 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:10,960 Yeah. 460 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:16,680 It's actually pretty far out, but it's a shallow area and they call it Tiger Beach because 461 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,600 it's really sandy and there are a lot of tiger sharks there. 462 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:20,600 Wow. 463 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:21,600 Okay. 464 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:23,960 I think that's why I call it that. 465 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:25,960 Probably not because there are tigers there because there aren't any. 466 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:27,960 Yeah, it's not tigers swimming around. 467 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:28,960 They're the sharks. 468 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:32,440 Although, if there was a tiger swimming around, that'd be truly amazing. 469 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:34,440 That would be pretty cool. 470 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:35,440 Yeah. 471 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:39,360 But we were on the dive boat getting ready to go in the water. 472 00:26:39,360 --> 00:26:45,080 And they say, basically, try to descend as safely as you can so you're not just out there 473 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:49,840 floating in the water column as some of these big creatures could swim by because you want 474 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:56,280 to be a stable scuba diver near the bottom because it's pretty shallow. 475 00:26:56,280 --> 00:27:02,320 You don't want to just be floating up there looking weird and interesting to them. 476 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,680 And so I'm like, okay, we're hopping in. 477 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:09,800 We're descending as quickly as we can safely do. 478 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:15,120 So I'm being a good scuba diver and clearing my ears and descending as safely as I can. 479 00:27:15,120 --> 00:27:16,120 Sure. 480 00:27:16,120 --> 00:27:23,160 So I'm descending and in the distance, I see this very large, even in the distance, shark 481 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:24,160 swimming towards us. 482 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:28,960 And I'm like, I need to descend as fast as I can. 483 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:33,200 And so the shark is getting closer and closer and I'm descending. 484 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:37,760 And apparently, my eyes were incredibly large as the swimmer was swimming towards me and 485 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:39,760 I was going down. 486 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,880 And I'm going down. 487 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:43,880 The sharks like swimming by. 488 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:44,880 And it just like swims by. 489 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:45,880 It was totally fine. 490 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:46,880 Yeah. 491 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,320 But it was very close. 492 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:51,440 And apparently, my eyes were so big. 493 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:55,480 So the dive master always wanting to make sure everybody's okay is like, you're okay. 494 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,400 And I'm like, I'm okay. 495 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,520 You just described a nightmare for a lot of people, I think. 496 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:02,520 I'm sure. 497 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:03,520 Well, everything was fine. 498 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:04,520 It's a beautiful close encounter. 499 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:05,520 It's went by. 500 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:06,520 I kept descending. 501 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:10,640 Everything happened the way it was supposed to. 502 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:12,960 My dive buddy was like, you okay? 503 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:14,520 Do you still have air? 504 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:17,200 And I'm like, I'm so scared. 505 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:20,760 Didn't suck it all down when I was seeing the shark so close. 506 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:26,120 And then we were just kind of swimming around the reef, diving around the reef, exploring. 507 00:28:26,120 --> 00:28:33,480 But what was really incredible about this is this, I assume it was the same shark, sort 508 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,280 of hung around for much of the dive. 509 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:38,920 And so we got to see it a whole bunch of times. 510 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:45,720 And it definitely swam pretty close to us several times. 511 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,040 We got some amazing pictures of this shark. 512 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:55,960 And it was, when I say it swam by very close, it was like, I probably could have touched 513 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:59,040 it if I wanted to. 514 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,040 But keep your hands to yourselves. 515 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:04,080 The shark keeps its fins to itself. 516 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,120 We'll like, it'll swim by. 517 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:08,640 I'll watch. 518 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:14,240 And from what we know about shark behavior, these sort of things should be fine. 519 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:19,760 Just curiosity probably, or in your experience. 520 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:20,760 There's a lot of tourism. 521 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:27,360 Like, I don't know if the shark was habituated or if it was just, I happened to be on the 522 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:28,920 same reef it wanted to visit. 523 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:30,960 It could be any number of things. 524 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,680 I can attribute whatever to the shark. 525 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:38,840 But I was there to dive, so I was diving, being shark safe as I could. 526 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:45,640 But we were able to have this dive with this incredibly large tiger shark. 527 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:46,960 And what is incredibly large? 528 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,040 I mean, just to augment our imaginations here. 529 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:57,320 This thing was probably close to three or four meters. 530 00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:58,400 It was much bigger. 531 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:02,840 I am, what, 64 inches tall? 532 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:03,840 Whatever. 533 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:08,280 A meter and a half, a meter and three quarters. 534 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:09,800 It was a lot bigger. 535 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:10,800 Yeah. 536 00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:16,760 And underwater things are so fast, much faster and agile than us. 537 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:20,200 I mean, everything becomes impressive. 538 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:21,200 Right. 539 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:26,400 It was this really amazing opportunity to see it swim by. 540 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:28,960 They have beautiful coloring. 541 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:33,800 So we got to look at it up close as it went by. 542 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,200 And they are so graceful. 543 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:40,400 You see them swim and like you said, they move so fast. 544 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:44,800 They make zero effort to... 545 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:48,240 And we were scuba diving, so we had neutral buoyancy. 546 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:52,160 So we were closer to the bottom, but up in the water. 547 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:59,160 So we were pretty floaty and graceful as a human can be underwater at that point. 548 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:03,560 But yeah, so the shark was able to just swim by. 549 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:07,080 We spent our whole dive underwater. 550 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:14,280 And what was really incredible is I think that is probably 100% the largest shark I 551 00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:19,000 have ever been diving with that I saw. 552 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:25,120 I may not have seen other creatures I've been in the water with, but it was probably the 553 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:30,760 closest and the biggest shark I've ever been in the water with. 554 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:33,360 And it was just really big. 555 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:35,480 It was really graceful. 556 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:40,480 It was beautifully colored and kind of just swimming around doing its thing. 557 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:42,520 Like, this is my ocean. 558 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:43,520 Yeah. 559 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:50,640 That really must be burning your memory to have a big shark like that. 560 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:51,640 Yeah. 561 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:53,080 Who were you diving with at the time? 562 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:57,640 Was it also experienced shark people or people who might be a little bit more intimidated 563 00:31:57,640 --> 00:31:58,640 by the experience? 564 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:02,360 Well, my dive buddy was a pretty experienced diver. 565 00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:06,320 And then we had the dive master from the boat. 566 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:10,360 So the people who wrote the boat charters are always really well experienced in those 567 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:11,360 areas. 568 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:13,240 And so, I mean, that's a nice thing, right? 569 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:17,840 A lot of times when you go out and have these experiences, especially if you're diving from 570 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:21,320 a boat, you're with people who have a lot of experience in the area. 571 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:22,800 They know where the dive sites are. 572 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:31,720 They know a lot about the environment just because they spend every day, like all day 573 00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:32,720 out there. 574 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:37,800 So, if you've ever been almost anywhere in the world and you have a guide to take you 575 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:43,120 on a hike or to a site, these are people who have just such incredible knowledge of the 576 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:47,080 natural history of the areas they work in. 577 00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:49,800 They know exactly where to go and what they're doing. 578 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:56,120 So it's really nice, obviously, as a scientist to be able to work with people who have such 579 00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,880 immense natural history knowledge in general. 580 00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:05,280 But yeah, I feel like all the dive boats, they know where they're going. 581 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:06,600 They do it all the time. 582 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:10,160 So they've got a really good idea of what all the sites look like. 583 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:13,560 Well, you're no slouch either. 584 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:17,760 And it's nice to hear that somebody who has seen as many sharks as you have and sharks 585 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:24,600 and rays and all those amazing animals you work on, that seeing a shark like this can 586 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:30,680 still absolutely make your day, month, year. 587 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:32,080 It was so memorable. 588 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:38,600 But yeah, literally every time I go diving, I get excited by the smallest seahorse, the 589 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:42,080 biggest stingray, like anything. 590 00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:49,080 Like I said, the ocean is full of a million things to study and observe and just enjoy. 591 00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:53,600 And of those million things, are there things that you still want to see? 592 00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:57,080 Oh, well, so we just did this thresher shark paper. 593 00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:58,800 Yeah, I love thresher sharks. 594 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,320 They're just the most elegant looking things ever. 595 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:03,920 Yeah, I mean, they're a little goofy looking. 596 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:08,160 They've got these little bodies relative to their tail and these giant eyes sometimes. 597 00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:10,600 They're like, yeah, they are elegant. 598 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:11,600 They're graceful. 599 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:18,080 And they have that big tail whip, which is a pretty graceful movement. 600 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:20,440 But I've seen videos. 601 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:24,120 YouTube is an amazing resource for natural history. 602 00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:25,120 I know. 603 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:29,280 You get so much great information. 604 00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:31,680 I've seen thresher sharks swim. 605 00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:34,280 I've seen them whip their tails. 606 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:38,040 That's in the literature, scientific literature. 607 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:40,080 But I personally have never seen one. 608 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:49,200 So after spending some time studying their skeletons and thinking about the functional 609 00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:55,600 morphology, like how does their anatomy enable them to do any sort of activity or motion, 610 00:34:55,600 --> 00:35:00,160 I would really love to see one of those in the wild. 611 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,360 Yeah, that would be nice. 612 00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:08,760 I have a real love of the mako shark. 613 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,000 They have very pointy noses. 614 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:15,800 I've been able to dissect specimens that have washed up and stuff. 615 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,680 So they are shaped like torpedoes. 616 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:21,560 They have noses that come to a perfect point. 617 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:25,180 They're like a perfect fast swimming torpedo. 618 00:35:25,180 --> 00:35:30,940 And I would love to maybe not be in the water with one because it might be harder to watch 619 00:35:30,940 --> 00:35:33,280 it swim as it zooms past you. 620 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:37,560 But I would love to be on a boat being able to see one swim past. 621 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:44,480 Or some of these big sharks breach and some big rays, like manta rays do. 622 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:49,040 And so seeing a breaching event would be really exciting. 623 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:52,800 We have seen some smaller sharks jump out of the water. 624 00:35:52,800 --> 00:36:01,920 And at the time here in Florida, my son saw a manta ray jump out of the water. 625 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:03,720 We heard it, but he saw it. 626 00:36:03,720 --> 00:36:05,680 He was like, now that manta just jumped. 627 00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:06,680 Like, what? 628 00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:09,680 And I missed it. 629 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:13,560 Well, and these are the things you see on natural history documentaries. 630 00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:19,420 And just to show that somebody who's worked on it all her life has not seen that. 631 00:36:19,420 --> 00:36:23,120 So just the value of observations like that. 632 00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:24,120 Yeah. 633 00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:25,760 Like I said, YouTube is amazing. 634 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:29,720 Those natural history documentaries, like the photographers and videographers who get 635 00:36:29,720 --> 00:36:37,400 to go out and collect that information is just so valuable to share scientifically, 636 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:42,400 like what we know some of these animals can do, but also just to get the general public 637 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:44,560 excited and interesting. 638 00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:49,840 How does a manta ray launch its giant sloppy body out of the water like that? 639 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:54,440 That was like a pretty amazing sort of biomechanical event, right? 640 00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:56,720 Like how does that happen? 641 00:36:56,720 --> 00:37:02,960 And they seem to have so much drag, right, on their big, big flat body. 642 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:06,080 There's just sloppy too. 643 00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:10,240 And then we've got things like the mako sharks that are the fastest swimming sharks that 644 00:37:10,240 --> 00:37:11,640 we know of. 645 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:17,020 And I've been able to study them since the very beginning of my dissertation. 646 00:37:17,020 --> 00:37:23,040 And I've always wanted to be able to do something with my data where I can say, this is why 647 00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:24,840 mako sharks swim so fast. 648 00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:25,840 Yeah. 649 00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:28,440 Well, they're partially warm-blooded, right? 650 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,640 Or at least they have a warm body core. 651 00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:32,640 Yeah. 652 00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:35,040 So that helps them swim so fast. 653 00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:40,840 But in terms of their skeleton and muscle anatomy, how do you... 654 00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:47,080 Because like I've said, I've gotten to dissect some of these guys who have washed up or been 655 00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:48,800 incidental mortalities. 656 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,040 Their entire body is really stiff. 657 00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:53,560 It's not just very pointed and torpedo-like. 658 00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:55,400 It is solid and stiff. 659 00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:56,400 It doesn't bend. 660 00:37:56,400 --> 00:38:03,280 And so you think if you go to the grocery store and get a fish that you're going to 661 00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:08,120 eat for dinner, if you pick up the head, most of them, their body's going to flop over. 662 00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:11,760 Like their fish are just floppy, right? 663 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:18,320 And the same is true of most sharks, but makos are just so rigid that I am always trying 664 00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:24,320 to use my research on their vertebral columns and their materials to say, this is why they're 665 00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:26,360 so rigid and that's why they can swim so fast. 666 00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:27,360 Yeah. 667 00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:33,480 But most of the angles I've taken to show that, they've actually been less stiff or 668 00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:36,680 less impressive than the skeletons of other sharks. 669 00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:43,600 So I'm still trying to figure out what about their skeleton is the thing that makes it 670 00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:44,600 so stiff. 671 00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:49,320 It drives you nuts to have a question like that. 672 00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:51,000 I have something similar with my scorpions. 673 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:56,160 I've been at it for 15 years. 674 00:38:56,160 --> 00:39:02,120 I've got a new working hypothesis and a brand new PhD student who started this fall. 675 00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:05,120 And I told him what his first project is going to be. 676 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:10,600 And I'm like, here are some of these makos and this is what I want you to do with them. 677 00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:19,360 And so I was just telling someone that the nice thing about my research is I can be out 678 00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:24,880 in the field and using drones and videos to get videos of animals doing what they do in 679 00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:25,880 the ocean. 680 00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:26,880 We're in South Florida. 681 00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:33,780 So we're ideally located to do that with some really amazing species. 682 00:39:33,780 --> 00:39:38,560 My research also lends itself to bringing animals into the lab, not giant animals like 683 00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:44,480 a big mako or a full-sized manta ray, but smaller species into the lab to study how 684 00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:46,320 they swim. 685 00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:54,800 And then anytime I have a dead fish that someone sends me, they can say, hey, do you want the 686 00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:57,080 vertebrae from whatever that just washed up? 687 00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:00,240 I can say, yes, please send it to here's my address. 688 00:40:00,240 --> 00:40:04,480 And so I get coolers full of dead fish that nobody else wants. 689 00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:09,560 And then it's a lot of research for me. 690 00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:10,680 And it's fantastic research. 691 00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:13,320 I'm a very big fan of your lab and your work. 692 00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:14,320 Come on. 693 00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:15,320 It's awesome. 694 00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:20,480 Even if you're not putting laser beams on their heads, I love the material properties 695 00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:23,200 of the skin and the bone and the cartilage. 696 00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:29,500 Squishing and stretching stuff is so fun and informative. 697 00:40:29,500 --> 00:40:30,760 That's a good summary. 698 00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:35,080 So if people want to know more about your lab or they want to follow you online, are 699 00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:41,040 you on some social media platforms that we can announce here? 700 00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:42,400 That's a great question. 701 00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:44,160 I am on Blue Sky. 702 00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:46,120 I do not remember. 703 00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:52,560 I used to be very active on Twitter when it was Twitter. 704 00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:55,840 My use has sort of fallen off. 705 00:40:55,840 --> 00:41:01,360 You can find me on bluesky at Marianne Porter. 706 00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:05,880 And Twitter, I think is the same thing. 707 00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:07,640 I don't check that very often. 708 00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:09,480 I'll put something on the screen. 709 00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:10,480 Don't worry. 710 00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:12,440 We'll find it and I'll put it on the screen. 711 00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:19,640 I also have my lab's website, which is just meportorbiomechanics.com. 712 00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:23,480 So really pretty easy. 713 00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:28,920 I think it's pretty Googleable to find me. 714 00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:34,280 You can always find me through the university websites at Florida Atlantic University. 715 00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:40,400 But yeah, we've got a great group of students working in my lab right now. 716 00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:47,440 We just had our Thresher Shark paper come out earlier this year, which was really exciting. 717 00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:52,280 My PhD student Jamie is one of her first big dissertation chapters to get published. 718 00:41:52,280 --> 00:42:01,240 And then yeah, we've got a good group of students doing everything from sort of how fast sharks 719 00:42:01,240 --> 00:42:06,600 work, how do the skeletons of cetaceans work. 720 00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:08,240 So those are our marine mammals. 721 00:42:08,240 --> 00:42:16,800 And what is interesting about them that I really love is as humans, we always hear that 722 00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:20,520 we want to keep our skeletons strong, especially as we get older, right? 723 00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:25,680 We want to make sure you're lifting weights and doing weight bearing exercises and taking 724 00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:28,720 your calcium supplements. 725 00:42:28,720 --> 00:42:36,840 And so my question with the marine mammals is what do you do if you're a dolphin and 726 00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:40,200 you don't do weight bearing exercises? 727 00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:46,120 Then that in Florida, we have a critter called a manatee. 728 00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:52,280 A manatee, also sometimes called sea cows, they literally just like float around and 729 00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:53,280 eat seagrass. 730 00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:54,280 Yeah. 731 00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:57,180 Definitely not what anyone would consider active. 732 00:42:57,180 --> 00:42:59,520 And so how do they keep their skeletons strong? 733 00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:02,240 Because they're floating around in water all the time. 734 00:43:02,240 --> 00:43:07,240 They're not loading their skeletons under gravity like probably not lifting weights. 735 00:43:07,240 --> 00:43:10,520 I don't know for sure, but I assume not. 736 00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:12,120 They don't look like they do. 737 00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:13,120 No. 738 00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:19,200 And so we've got some questions about what does the bone anatomy look like in some of 739 00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:24,640 those organisms, especially related to their terrestrial counterparts or close relatives? 740 00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:26,640 That would be very interesting. 741 00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:27,640 Yeah. 742 00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:28,640 Do manatees get osteoporosis? 743 00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:35,000 What happens if you just float in water and that's your life? 744 00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:38,880 That's relevant also for astronauts and things like that, right? 745 00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:44,880 That is one of my big goals is I hope someday that NASA or some space agency is going to 746 00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:47,400 be like, your research is fascinating. 747 00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:49,640 Would you like to come see our space shuttles? 748 00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:53,160 So I can say yes, I would love to. 749 00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:54,160 Not from the inside. 750 00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:55,640 That might be too scary for me. 751 00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:58,540 I accidentally dive during an earthquake. 752 00:43:58,540 --> 00:44:03,400 I will dive with the tiger shark, but going into actual space might be a little bit too 753 00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:04,400 scary for me personally. 754 00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:06,720 You can just send your robots up there. 755 00:44:06,720 --> 00:44:07,720 That's fine. 756 00:44:07,720 --> 00:44:08,720 Yeah. 757 00:44:08,720 --> 00:44:11,440 I definitely look at all the cool technology they have. 758 00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:12,440 Yeah, awesome. 759 00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:15,440 Look, but not touch. 760 00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:16,440 Important. 761 00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:17,440 Exactly. 762 00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:22,120 Well, you're doing awesome stuff and I'll definitely keep following it. 763 00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:28,120 And I hope everybody who listens to this have a look at her lab because Marianne and her 764 00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:30,880 students do fantastic work, really interesting papers. 765 00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:35,920 So with that, thank you very much, Marianne, for your great stories. 766 00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:36,920 Thank you for having me. 767 00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:38,280 It was amazing to catch up with you. 768 00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:41,040 We'll have to talk more about you in the next one. 769 00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:42,400 Oh dear. 770 00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:46,920 Well, all right, we'll try that. 771 00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:47,920 Thanks a lot, Marianne. 772 00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:48,920 Bye bye. 773 00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:49,920 All right. 774 00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:50,920 Thank you. 775 00:44:50,920 --> 00:45:09,420 This has been session call 2.