Welcome to The Zoologist's Campfire, the podcast where animal professionals share their
best, funniest and most epic stories.
Gathered with me around the campfire today are Ana Luisa Santos and Michael Sanderson
of Attilus Films.
Ana and Michael are wildlife filmmakers who have travelled to over 50 countries, hiding
for days in little huts or dangling high in the trees among the monkeys.
And then they bring back incredible nature footage for us to enjoy.
So I really recommend going to their website or their YouTube channel to see some of it,
including some really cool behind the scenes stuff.
But you may have actually already seen their work, for instance on the BBC Planet Earth
series, on National Geographic or in their own productions that were aired in several
countries.
So, Ana and Michael, welcome.
Thank you.
Hello, thank you.
Well, before we get into your stories, can I just ask you how you came to be wildlife
filmmakers?
I'm sure many people think it's a dream job and they would love to know how you got there.
Well, that's a long story, but we'll keep it short.
Well, basically, we started our own company in 2013.
And so since then, we've been working at Attilus Films together as filmmakers.
So yeah, we've been producing for more than almost 10 years.
Together almost 10 years.
We have films for various channels and programs.
So yeah, it's...
So basically, I have an engineering background, Michael as well, different kinds of engineering.
And so in 2014, we decided to join forces because Michael needs help to create something
and I also was looking for something more challenging.
And so we decided to work together and since then, we have been working with several species,
several documentaries.
I can give you just a few examples.
For example, with Bart Macaques, with Spider-Man, with different kinds of birds, with...
Lumbergaiers.
Yeah, and I loved your documentary on the foxes in the Netherlands as well.
That was really cool.
Yeah.
Foxes, yeah.
Fox is always a very intriguing and very interesting character for us.
We learn a lot with them and we learn about them.
Yeah, so we're not zoologists or biologists.
Our background is engineering.
But as a filmmaker, that's also very important to have the technical background.
Background.
I imagine, yeah.
But on production, we learn from zoologists that we work with and then we connect their
knowledge, their scientific knowledge, and they're not to be shown to the public in a
way that they can understand it as well.
Yeah, and everything that we film, we do a lot of research about when we are making a
production.
And so sometimes we are lucky enough to be able to film more than what we research about.
And so it's always important for us to fact check.
And so when you see something, you say, okay, but it was that.
And we have to support other people.
That's kind of your bycatch then, and that you're not the topic animal, but then you
see something else running around and you can.
Yeah.
Yeah, sometimes we can see new projects emerge in the backgrounds.
We're focusing on that.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Cool.
Well, you've prepared a couple of stories for us today, I think.
You said the first one might be about bears, which is a topic close to my heart as well.
Yes.
Yeah.
Bears.
Where were you?
What were you doing there?
You were chasing bears for some reason.
Yeah.
So basically this story is about our nice adventure in Europe, Eastern Europe in the
summer season.
But it's important to say that we went to this location in different seasons.
So we pretty much, we knew, we kind of, we knew at how it was in the winter with a lot
of snow, with rain, and then we were there for the summer.
And so basically, so basically we went to this place a few times, but in one specific
day you receive a call.
So what that, which call it was that?
We got a phone call to say that there was something interesting had happened in the
mountains and that maybe it was interesting for us to come and have a look with our kit.
And so what happened was that there was a lightning strike that hit a herd of a flock
of sheep in the mountains.
Wow.
And so this information trickled down from the shepherd who, yeah, who said that my sheep
had been killed by lightning and it created a lot of food for some of the large carnivores
that live in the region.
And so then it was worth for us to come and have a look and see if we can film some of
them whilst they were jumping away on these carcasses that were left behind, of course,
in the middle of the mountains.
Yeah.
So in our last trips, we were really chasing these animals.
We really need to see them.
And it was difficult.
It wasn't like a place where you, you, there was fed or something like that.
There was like a hide or something that you go to.
This was in an area that had never really been filmed before.
Exactly.
And it was in the mountains.
But the thing is our source told us that for sure we will be able to see these animals
in action.
Okay.
And so, and by telephone they say, Dad, we know what it is.
Once the lightning happen, you only need to come bring your equipment.
It will be possible.
Perfect.
Or let's literally book the flight in the following hour.
And then the next morning we arrive to this place.
And so when we arrived there, we understood that we arrived at night, though, late at
night.
And so we would camp down at the bottom of the valley.
And then they said like, hey, at 6 a.m. we'll get up.
And it would take how long?
It would take, they said?
They said that it will take one hour to go to this place.
Okay.
Convenient.
One hour.
So, so, so as like, like normal filmmakers, we just thought, okay, okay, that it was more
Michael that thought let's take all the equipment.
Like everything.
And say everything is just one hour walking.
It cannot be that difficult.
Sure.
Okay.
I never, I never agreed with that that much, but sure.
Let's do it.
So basically we were in this camping and in the morning, it was a while camping.
A tent.
Yeah.
It was something very basic.
But in the morning, in sunrise, I remember that I opened the tent and I look outside
and I saw, I saw an animal that should not be there.
I thought.
And, and this animal, it was a donkey.
Not too dangerous yet.
No, no.
Standing outside the tent.
Standing outside.
And I thought, okay, that is interesting.
And, and actually I thought this is interesting.
I really love them.
So, wow.
And so I asked, so, so, but do you need, do you need him?
Yeah.
You're going to help us to carry the stuff to the, to the, where we need to go.
I thought great.
I'm going to take everything.
But the important detail is that we will, so we were trying to, the idea, the goal,
it was to film these animals.
Which animals?
The brown bears.
Yeah.
So, and so basically our guide even thought about to put, to put the wood.
So he gave a bag, he put a big bag of food.
Talk of the donkey.
So we thought this is kind of, okay, so we have, now we have a little helper.
And so this animal also going to take good and say, no way, no, we cannot, we cannot
do that.
We cannot do that.
Because if you're going to make a fire, we're going to, everything going to, going to.
You scare away predators and large carnivores with fire.
Yes.
Yeah.
So we decided maybe we're not going to have cooked food.
Yeah, maybe not.
Maybe not.
Yeah.
And so basically, so, so we just decided what we're going to take.
We decided to take less stuff.
And we asked again to the guide.
So, but where is the location?
Ah, it's just there.
It's just there.
It's just one hour.
I said, okay.
Okay.
So let's start.
Let's start.
I was thinking, wow, this is a lottery, right, because we had been blessed the year and now
we're going to see that one hour away.
Wow.
Amazing.
It's also like we would arrive in the morning still.
So maybe we could still see the bears whilst they have their morning routine, because once
it gets midday, they might be sleeping.
Exactly.
So we starting our journey.
It was maybe not even eight o'clock and great nine o'clock.
We're going to be there.
Oh, earlier.
Something like that.
And this is a great opportunity for you because you spent already several visits there going,
looking for these bears, which are extremely low density in the forest.
Very hard to see even a glimpse of them.
This would be a sure thing.
Exactly.
So we are really talking about animals, not use it to people, not use it to being fed
nothing.
It was ideal situation for us.
And so we started to walk and I saw the time passing off an hour and a half.
And now we're great.
And also now we're going to be there.
But the thing is that half an hour we're going to be there, but we were still below the trees.
So okay.
So all right.
And then one hour passed and we were always walking.
And trust me, we have the help of this Anki that indeed has a few bags, but we also had
a lot of bags.
So actually we were heavy.
Everyone was there.
It was comfortable.
And so we keep walking and walking and walking.
One hour passed, nothing.
Two hours passed, nothing.
Three hours passed and I thought, three hours?
What is going on?
And I, Michael, what is going on?
To speak with them already.
The time is passing and they kind of, they look a little bit lost like us.
Oh dear.
But we are not from there.
So sure.
And then wait a minute.
But then four hours passed and we were almost, we almost passed.
We almost passed the line tree, but we were...
Okay, we have a problem.
And then five hours passed, always walking.
We are talking about always walking.
We never stopped.
And we finally reached the top of the mountain.
Well, just under the top.
Just over.
And I remember that the guides, obviously we stopped to eat something.
No, it was funny because it was, ah, okay, we're going to sit down and have lunch.
Say lunch.
For breakfast.
And it's already...
Yeah, it's okay.
Let's have lunch.
And so we, but we were getting a little bit nervous because it was so easy.
So easy.
It's easy and nothing.
It was not like that.
Okay.
And so we started to eat.
We were eating and suddenly I looked to the side and I saw the shepherd man.
He's starting to take the bags out of the tank.
Uh oh.
Yeah.
It was short.
He needs a rest.
So nothing.
And he's starting to take the bags and I keep looking.
And then I see the animal looking away.
It was walking away from us.
And I thought, what is going on?
Oh my God.
And I was so scared.
And he said, yes, he had enough.
He had enough.
He's tired.
Okay.
So, okay.
Sure.
So but, but where is this location?
We, we, yeah, we don't know.
We are looking for it.
What?
Oh, you were not there yet.
No, we're not there yet.
And the thing is that the donkey just starting, he was going away, away, away.
He went downhill.
Downhill.
Okay.
So we asked the guides, okay, so is the donkey going to come back?
He said, no, no, he's done.
He's done for the day.
He's done.
So all the bags were like put on the floor at the top of the hill.
Oh no.
Mountain.
It was quite a hill.
And basically we were looking at each other going like, okay, so how are we going to carry
all these bags?
It's, it's imagine that a donkey full of, there's four of us and the donkey carrying
a lot of bags just dumped it and left it behind.
And fair enough, you know, we were tired as well.
So we understand how this donkey is doing.
Yeah, but he went back home.
The thing is that in a way we learned that, that if they are, if animals are tired, they
are.
And then we humans, we need to do it, but they were tired.
They reached, it was the poor animal, he reaches his point of helping us.
And so, and the problem is it was that we really didn't know if you were that far, nobody
knew.
But it was at this point that they also said to us and they turned around honest to us,
the guides and say, we don't know where it is.
We don't know.
We don't know where we're going.
We're going five hours of walking.
What we realized is they were in the wrong valley.
Yeah, probably.
So then, okay, we looked at each other and we thought, okay, how are we going to solve
this?
And then we came up with a plan.
Okay, well, we have to walk the rest on our own with all these bags that we can't carry
all at the same time.
So we had to do the system of going, taking one set of bags, like a couple of hundred
meters, put it on the floor, walking all the way back, get the rest of the bags, going
all the way again, putting it down and doing it in like little laps.
Yeah.
Oh, that's, that's, oh, it's like a lot longer.
The thing is, when the situation happened, we were in the top.
We were really in the top of the hill.
And so I really have in the memory that when I was walking with a lot of bags, just trying
to put them in the, just put them a few meters further, I looked down and I literally, I
saw that if I fall, I will die because it will be...
Wow.
We were together.
Together, they will find it, but we never know.
It was quite steep at that point.
And so, and so basically, and it was as well, obviously that they admit that the lightning
probably happened at this point that we didn't know, but it happened.
They also said that they didn't know when it happened.
So it was becoming clear that kind of, it wasn't yesterday.
No, it was never.
Maybe it was a bit longer ago, but you know, that kind of later we...
Wow.
So you jumped on the plane like the next day immediately and then...
Yeah, because we really wanted, we really needed to film that.
It was kind of important for us.
And so, and so, but the thing is that in that moment, we were kind of a little bit desperate
because, because it's obviously a kind of investment.
And so we thought, okay, maybe this, it was just a lost trip.
The thing is that, so we keep walking and finally one of the guides said, it's here.
It's here.
And we took in total from the bottom until the top nine hours.
It was around nine hours.
Nine hours.
We arrived to the spot that they thought it was the right spot.
And it was interesting though.
Actually we arrived.
So we went up this hill, the donkey left us.
We were at the crest of the hill, reversed along this dodgy path, which wasn't a path.
It was just like loose rocks, like doing like relays with our bags.
Finally we got to the location where the guide said, this is it.
Here it is.
It's on the other side.
It's opposite.
So it's not a very big valley.
It should be over there on the other side.
Okay.
That's interesting.
All right.
Let's just hide behind these bushes first, set up the camera.
And then luckily the two guides, they went back to get the rest of the bags.
Well, we had our cameras with us and we could already set up our long lens and then see what
was going on.
And almost immediately a bear appeared.
Wow.
Well, at least that.
I mean, after nine hours, were you thinking it was one?
So we were super excited because we forgot that we walked nine hours because we arrived.
And so that was very important.
And that we saw the bear, it was amazing, of course.
And luckily the guides, they could come back quite quickly with the rest of the bags.
And then we sat, we stood there kind of behind this bush filming to the other side of the
hill.
This beautiful bear jumping on a carcass.
And later we, well, actually on the screen we could see that, yeah, this definitely wasn't
two days ago.
These carcasses were already quite old.
But these bears were still coming back to this location.
So we thought this, okay, great.
We're going to set up camp.
And once the bear was gone, we went down the hill a little bit and we found a nice spot
to base ourselves.
Built our tent there and we set up not that far away from there.
We set up our little tripod to wait for the bears again.
And we actually got immediately that evening, because it was already evening.
The sun was setting.
So we got the, in the golden hours, we got some nice shots.
It was quite a distance away, but you know, it was really wild bears.
You know, it wasn't like, you know, these were not used to humans for sure.
Wow.
And so basically, and then we have our tent and our guides, they left us there.
And kind of concerned because...
I was getting night now, I imagine, right?
So yeah.
And it was getting extremely dark and we thought, okay, now we are here.
We cannot go all the way down.
No way.
But because now they know exactly this location, they could go easily down.
Yeah.
It was just in circles.
It was way up.
It was just in circles.
And so basically we indeed...
They took the batteries down because we couldn't charge the batteries up.
They took our...
Yeah, of course.
And so basically the next step, it was, okay, well now we need to sleep here, but we have
bears around us.
So is this safe?
Is this safe?
But one thing that it was important is that our food, it was protected.
So because they put the food in the plastic bag on a tree.
Yeah.
At least the food is protected.
We might...
Okay, we're going to sleep in a tent.
At least they will be food.
And I think that in this moment we just didn't get concerned and just, okay, let's just sleep.
Let's just...
Everything going to be okay, we believe.
And I fell asleep straight away.
And in the next morning when I opened the tent, literally 50 centimeters from the tent,
we found there a little present that the bear...
It was a dark present.
Massive.
Massive, actually.
It was big.
And I look at the tree, the food is there.
So actually the food is just protected.
We are safe.
And then we sleep here.
So actually they were not interested with us and that is...
It was pretty...
I think that it was pretty nice.
So during the night the bear came to your tent and did its thing in front of you.
Definitely.
Wow.
He really could stand in their toilets.
Yeah, could be.
Maybe, I don't know.
Unfortunately, we didn't have any camera pointing to our tent because the cameras were
in the other side trying to get the bears.
Camera traps.
And so we don't know exactly what happened around us.
But the thing is that sometimes you don't need to know.
No, exactly.
At least the bears were well fed.
Do you think it would have been different if they didn't have the dead sheep there?
Never know, right?
Never know.
They were definitely not hungry because they had been having a feast on that mountain for
a while now.
And so, yeah, we were probably not interested.
But interesting enough, in the feces that was left as a message, you can see still a
lot of berries.
Berries, yeah.
Okay.
Lots of frost there.
So it wasn't only carnivores.
No, definitely not.
Meals.
Yeah.
Recently.
Wow.
That's amazing.
And they're so huge when they're up close.
I mean, I've had the pleasure of working with them in the zoo.
And even from a distance as a visitor, you think, oh, they're not that big.
But then when you get close, oh my God, they are huge.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
European bears, yeah.
Fantastic.
And well, did the donkey ever come back to help you get done?
No.
Never saw a donkey again.
Never saw a donkey.
Definitely will learn a lesson.
Really, yeah.
The donkey was less patient with the guides than you are.
Oh, definitely.
Probably.
Yes.
Oh, God.
Yeah, no, it was good.
It was actually, it was a great experience to film these wild animals.
Yeah, but it just also shows how ready you have to be to jump on a plane when you hear
a rumor from a shepherd.
I mean, that's apparently the kind of thing you have to do to get these super rare special
shots that we just on a Saturday night or a Sunday night see on TV.
That takes you a long time.
Yeah.
Wow.
Yeah, that's cool.
I love that.
That's those behind the scenes stories.
That's fantastic.
And you know, bears, always good.
But that was in Europe, but you also went to, well, I said 50 countries, right?
I think you have one story from Kenya that I have not heard from you yet, I think.
No, yeah.
This is a nice story.
It's in a way different from this one, the previous story.
So basically a few years ago, we had a little project and we needed to go to Africa, to
Kenya to find these beautiful animals.
So basically the idea is that we went to, we spent a few days in the coastal area and
we wanted to go to a national park to film mainly elephants and buffalo and lions as
well and as well another species that we were lucky enough to find.
And so basically it was not the last minute planned.
Okay.
So it was more planned.
It was more planned.
So we actually, we have everything planned that we were in the coast, but we will go
a little bit deeper in the country to the national park.
And this national park was not, we were not sure.
Obviously we didn't know how long we will take to go there, but the true is that to
go there, the way to go, we took not more than three and a half hours, even probably
pretty fast.
By car.
So basically we were, we travel in this nice van that when we saw it for the first time,
we didn't believe that it was that nice or it was that much power.
And so in our guide, he was, I need to say that he was a very skilled driver.
Okay.
Yeah.
Even he definitely like to go faster.
You took this van straight from the airport, so you just, you planned your trip, you arrived
and then you...
We took the coast where our accommodation was and from there we would also spend some
time, move into the national parking land and from there.
Yeah.
And so, but the trip, it was pretty smoothly because we noticed that he liked to go in
shortcuts, that it was not always in the main road, right?
We are talking about different kind of infrastructures from Europe, right?
And we went, the most part of the time we use this nice road, but sometimes if they
were a light in a way, he thought, nah, I'm not going to wait.
And he just took the shortcut.
Yeah.
And he knew his way.
He knew his way.
He knew what to do.
Perfect.
Perfect guy.
Okay.
So we arrived to this national park.
We filmed everything that we needed to film.
We filmed elephants, we filmed lions, we filmed hyenas as well.
Yeah.
Lots of beautiful, the rose owl as well.
I mean, you say that really quickly now, but that's all amazing.
Of course.
Yeah.
No, definitely.
Definitely.
Everyone should go to Kenya.
It's a wonderful country.
Yeah.
And so for wildlife, not only as well for the human part is wonderful.
And so, and so, okay, so basically our job, it was done.
So it was time to go back.
And the idea is that once again, we will go-
This was like a few days later, right?
Yeah.
Yes.
No, it was a few days.
But the idea is that we will return early in the morning.
And we knew that we will take roughly three hours to go back.
And then during the afternoon we had another appointment.
So we should be fast.
The true is that, so we said to our guide, okay, let's go.
Well, how long are you going to-
You say, no, it will be the same.
And before lunch we're going to be there.
Okay, great.
And so, but we, we note, we along the way, we notice again that he was, he was for shortcuts.
And so, okay, he's already, he's trying, you know, you know that you need to be in our
next location fast.
So he's going as fast as he can.
The thing is that, that when we arrived to Mombasa to go to our accommodation, we needed
to cross a bridge.
But the thing is that it was a huge traffic jam to go past the bridge.
And we said, okay, this is complicated.
And so we really see with our eyes the meaning about a traffic jam in Mombasa.
It was interesting.
Everyone very upset, weeping all the time.
It was really, it was just funny.
It was, let's call it.
Sounds like chaos.
Yeah.
No, no, no, not at all.
And so, and so basically, and we asked him, but okay.
And now, and obviously he wanted to bring us to our accommodation as fast as he could.
And he thought it's starting to think in alternatives, but the time was passing obviously.
And because we thought, okay, maybe, maybe, maybe something, maybe, maybe the bridge is
going to be, going to be free very soon.
But the thing is that they started to talk with each other.
He went out and they asked what is going on.
And so what happened?
But then he would like come to like, not like a blocked road basically.
And then he would chat to someone and then you would turn around and go a different way.
Oh, yeah.
And then a little bit off road and then back onto the road.
And then there was a policeman who said, can I go through here?
He said, no, you can't go through here.
Okay, go back the other way.
So he's doing these, all these circles.
And then at one point he stopped and he said, okay, turn around to his guys.
There's a problem.
It's going to take a long time to get back to your accommodation.
He said, he said, gonna take a long time if we stay here in the traffic jam.
Yeah, anyway.
When we're going to.
So what happened?
Because something happened on the bridge.
Yeah.
On the bridge, they apparently had like a railroad.
And so what happened was the train, this is what we were told at the time, the train fell
off the bridge into the water.
Yeah.
And blocked the motorway as well.
Wow.
So he wouldn't get into the city.
And so then he turned around to us and said, look, I know another way, but it's going to
take a long time.
Or we can sit here and wait and we don't know how long it's going to take until they clear
the road, which sounded like.
Eternity.
Like it would take days basically.
Oh dear.
Yeah.
Let's go the other way.
The thing is that we are talking that way.
Let's go to the other way.
But we had, we asked him, but is he safe?
Because it doesn't matter where you are.
If we have the camera equipment, it's always risk associated.
The part from our points is always a risk.
And okay.
And he said, no, it's okay.
No problem.
Okay.
So let's go.
And so, and so the guy just, just started his journey as fast as he could.
And and, and at this time we really were in a different part of the city that we didn't
see in the park.
And so, and so now, now we thought, okay, let's, let's go.
And he was starting to drive in the dirty roads.
And there's villages.
It was kind of, we really see a different part.
And suddenly when we, when we arrived to that road that supposedly will give us access to
the other side, it was, it was as well a huge traffic jam because like everyone, it was
native there and knew the roads.
Everyone was trying to find the alternative.
Yeah.
But the thing is that for us, obviously that in that moment we are thinking, wow, what
is this because we are not from there and what is this?
This is really a lot of traffic.
And so, and, and the guy was going up the hill, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up.
And suddenly we arrived to the top of the hill.
And for our surprise, we were where, my God.
At the top of the hill, there was a massive landfill.
Oh, all right.
The middle of the road went through the middle of this landfill.
Absolutely humongous.
Yes.
And so, and yeah, and so that was the traffic jam was going through there.
Yeah.
And we were thinking, okay, this, this is interesting.
And then we got to the top and of course it was smelled so bad.
Yeah, of course.
We got rubbish everywhere.
And we, and we stopped at one point of most of the time we would stop.
But at this point at the top, we then looked outside the window and you could just see
like, because it rained a lot in the last week's month.
More than usual, you had these puddles and you could see the mosquitoes.
And we were thinking, okay, this doesn't look very safe.
No.
And the light said to us, we, we said to us, close the windows.
And we saw, okay, we need to close the windows because indeed we and everyone, everyone that
was there could be sick.
Just without, I don't know, they could, if a mosquito decides it's, it's what it is.
This is what it is.
And so, and he said to us, just close the windows.
Everything is okay.
And so, okay, but what is going on?
And so, and he said, ah, we will see it in a bit.
And so when, as soon that he was able to drive a little bit more, we understood that now
everyone else was trying to find their way out in two trucks.
One truck was literally, it was kind of toppling over.
Yeah.
The, yeah.
And so basically the ground there was very soft lane and the trucks wanted to also find
a route into the city and they were, the ground was too soft and, and, and an oncoming truck,
they had to obviously go into the rubbish and then obviously they pretty much fell over.
Fell over.
Yeah.
So it was the second one.
And so, and the, the funny is that while we are waiting in the, in this van, we also noticed
that a lot of kids were coming because of the attraction.
And so they wanted to see who is inside the van just out of curiosity.
And we thought it's going to be, this is funny because in a way we think, okay, we need also
to be as much, we are, they, they just think we are tourists.
And so we should not anyway be attracted for anyone really.
Because our idea there, it was to get out of that place, but everyone that was there
just wanted to get out of that place.
And actually all these kids revealed themselves very useful because then they were really,
everyone tried to push the cars and push, push the trucks just for us to be able.
But the thing that our driver, it was very, very skilled and it was also, he didn't have
too much patient and he just, he just thought, I don't care.
And he just, he just decided to just drive into the landfill, try to find this hardest
way and the hardest part.
Yeah.
You just, I don't know.
If you get stuck there, you are in trouble.
We were using for like going in the, in the wild, trying to look for wildlife was now
being used off-road in a, in a landfill.
But luckily it was strong enough and he just made his own road, you know, everyone else
was still waiting.
He just went around everything.
And then managed to get the, get the van through at much, much of, you know, annoyance of some
of the other people in the queue.
Yeah.
But he made his own way, didn't he?
And finally got past all of this mess, which was, it was literally a mess.
It was literally the mess.
But, and so obviously the other cars also followed him and luckily we are, we are out
of this mess.
And we understand that we were kind of impressed because, because the guy, it was, it was a
really good one.
And then he revealed to us that he was actually a politician and he actually, then he passed
into this village and he showed that that is me because he was running for the last
election, something local.
Yeah.
We didn't obviously, we didn't know that, but it was in a way nice because we were protected
because the guy was really respected and the people knew him.
Everyone said, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It was okay.
Nice.
This is cool.
And then the guy just, just took us back to our accommodation as fast as he could.
But obviously that this trip, we starting at eight, we were there just after dinner.
Okay.
It was fine.
It was long.
No, no.
We got back at 10 PM.
Yeah.
But it was after dinner.
Yeah.
After dinner.
Well, did you see the Mombasa landfill up close?
That's.
It's obviously, it's a problem everywhere, these landfills and there's no difference.
The difference is that it's in the middle of the city between people's houses and you
just drive.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Wow.
Yeah.
That's a different thing.
Yeah.
In a way, obviously it was, we had access to this reality, but in a way it was not shocking.
You know, it was like, it's what it is.
The thing is that is exactly what it is because even in Europe or anywhere, there is open
landfills that.
Sure.
It's the only way to go, you go.
You need to pass in your car and it's what it is.
Well, the driver was a hero in that one.
Yeah, definitely.
He was a cool guy, cool person.
Yeah.
We got home.
Okay.
Well, you know, I always, as a close place, I always like Morocco because, you know, working
in Portugal, you can get across quite, quite easily.
And it's an amazing country because it has, you know, snowy mountains, deserts, Mediterranean,
ocean.
It's, it's got pretty much everything, right?
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
You've been there as well, I think filming the super special Barbary Macaques.
We did.
Yes.
We made a film, a full film about Barbary Macaques back in 2014, actually, a year ago.
And we went there every season to follow them and film them and tell their life story.
So we spent a lot of time in Morocco.
We did.
They live in the Atlas Mountains, right?
In the forests there.
Yep.
And they're the only monkey that exists in North Africa.
And they used to exist in Europe as well.
Yeah.
A long time ago.
Yeah.
Actually, for this production, we, in one moment, we also found that it was found a
little bit of a jaw.
Barbary Macaques jaw as a fossil.
And they...
Neurotidam.
Neurotidam, actually.
And so actually we talk.
Oh, wow.
We talk with one of the experts about it.
What is it about 10,000 years ago that Barbary Macaques in this country?
Wow.
Well, I mean, they are in the rock of Gibraltar, I think, but for the rest, mainland Europe?
No.
Yeah.
They were here.
Yeah.
But yeah, we have amazing stories that we had in the forests of Morocco, filming these
animals.
There's one particular one that kind of stands out.
So we'd already filmed in the snowy winter.
We filmed in the spring, the new babies.
We filmed in the hot summer.
And now we were in autumn.
So we're coming to the last season to film.
And so autumn is an interesting time.
Yeah.
Let me just add that when we went there, we had a little team, but the situation, it was
up and just to us.
And it's important to say as well that we were always at our biologist, that she was
kind of guiding us through these animals, because we are talking about animals that
the Barbary Macaque, the most part of the people are not familiarized with them on the
forest, but they live in the forest and it's really their habitat and where they belong.
And so to see them there, it's priceless.
It's completely priceless.
It was a great experience to see them.
They really make sense with that beautiful cedar trees.
You can really smell the cedar trees.
You see the monkeys.
It's unbelievable.
It's real for us.
We are talking as well.
It's impressive forest.
I mean, people don't realize how humid and gorgeous the Atlas Mountains are with completely
forested huge trees and these green mountain tops and everything.
I really like it there.
That's special.
Okay.
But so, sorry, go on.
It's a wonderful place to go.
And probably now because recently with all the problems that they have there, everyone
should go and help them and it's important to go there.
It's really important.
Okay.
But move forward.
So basically we knew how nice these animals could be.
We never were close enough.
We were never close, that close to them.
We always kept our distance, quite a good distance.
Sure.
They were not aggressive.
They were not aggressive behavior.
We should never look at animals into their eyes or anything.
We should act like, yeah, it's, I don't know, in a way they knew us, but they didn't know
us from anywhere.
Do you know?
They accept us.
Yeah.
So basically keep...
No, no.
So this was in autumn.
So we'd already filmed a lot of their lives throughout the years and this was going to
be the last season that we need to discover.
But autumn is also an interesting time because it's also the mating season.
So that means the tensions are running a little bit higher amongst the bartern cacks.
And so it was interesting because we were doing some really nice stuff with like gimbals
at the time and following them.
A gimbal is like a stabilized camera platform.
We were trying to get some really nice groups moving through the forest.
And we also were recording sound.
And sound is also very important when you're making films because that's almost 50% of
the film is the sound.
And so we were walking up this hill.
It was already quite stormy, wasn't it?
It was like the thunder.
There was kind of a thunderstorm brewing.
Yeah.
We were filming there, both of us, and also sound.
And we got to this one point where we're filming kind of little squabbles going on between
the monkeys.
They were tense.
And that was good because we wanted to tell the story of their mating rituals and the
little fights that break out between the males because they want to mate with the females
and everything.
That's all part of the story that we're telling.
And then at one point, I think you had the microphone at that point.
We were in this one really beautiful forest and the microphone was quite high.
I was making sound.
And it's important to say that these animals, they really use the trees.
They were trees.
And so if they were making a sound above me, I could easily put the microphone, keeping
the distance.
Okay, keeping the distance.
And the sounds were pretty nice.
And so far, no problems at all.
No problems.
They knew that we were there, but they didn't care about us.
And we were just making the sound.
And so basically for some reason, our microphone, it was fluffy.
I was just like that.
And for some reason, one of them looked at the microphone and he thought that it was
maybe another animal.
I don't know what he thought.
Sure.
Yeah.
They look very fluffy, right?
Yeah.
And when the animal looked at the microphone, they look at us.
They suddenly turned all their face.
Well, the one looked at you, right?
They look at me and turn his face.
And literally, I don't know how suddenly we were surrounded by monkeys.
All of them turned their heads towards us.
And they just surrounded us.
And started coming closer.
Yeah.
Oh, wow.
Thinking, get them.
Get them.
And it was like, look, guys, it was almost like a, I wouldn't say a horror movie, but
it was similar that suddenly they just all turned their faces.
Oh, coming closer, making noises.
Making so, but the thing is that we are talking about, they are not that big.
No, but they're so strong.
They are.
And in this moment, they look giant.
I don't know, when we were in this situation, we were, oh my God, they were just surrounding
us.
It's like, oh, we're going to do, I just, I just said to him, don't breathe.
And so I have, I really have the feeling that I stopped my heart, just stopped them and
we didn't breathe.
We're just, I don't know, acting like rocks and slowly moving backwards.
Yeah.
And then we kind of decided, okay, we need to walk backwards out of situations.
If something, if they decided to attack us for the reason of the microphone, they will
do it, you know?
And we just thought, okay, let's just play safe.
Go slowly.
We know them.
It's okay.
We just go slowly.
Don't breathe.
Slowly, slowly.
One step at a time.
And as, and these, these mic is out of our hands.
But their surrounding is behind as well.
It was, it, we were really thinking, okay, let's see, let's see.
But we slowly, slowly, but then these, these mic is there.
They are really leaving the hierarchy.
So you have the miles and we have the ones that are not, are below.
Sure.
And so, and pretty much they followed the mile.
And so, and the mile, if you look at those, you thought, nah, they are not interesting.
And suddenly divert the attention, like a way to say, hey guys, stop, it's okay.
And they just relax.
And they just carry on their life.
You know, it's just, they just know it's interesting and they just move on and keep, keep doing
their stuff.
And we slowly.
We could leave.
Leave.
And.
Basically the big alpha male, he, for some reason he saw some, this happening from a
distance and he came running over and we thought he was obviously also going to get involved
in the, in intimidating us, but he made a U-turn at the last moment in front of us and
looked at all the other monkeys and told them like, stop, stop.
No more.
Wow.
Really?
Yeah.
Because he knew, he knew that we were not what the other monkeys were thinking we were.
Yeah.
Or he thought, okay, it's not worth the energy because these monkeys are interesting because
they, in general, their behavior, they avoid conflict.
Yeah.
Because they live in such a habitat, which has such scarcity of food, they cannot waste
energy so much.
So they have interesting behaviors where they, they even have one thing called infant buffering,
which means that they go and grab a baby, take it to another male who is alpha or is
also quite high and they play with it instead.
Yeah.
And that lowers their heart rate and they get less tense and they don't fight.
Exactly.
So it's kind of like the big male is like trying to make peace all the time.
Yeah.
But yeah, they do, they do have some conflicts, of course in mating season, but you know,
not as much as other, in the facts.
And definitely they work as a team and that it was wonderful because they were a team
they saw we were a problem.
They thought that they were a problem and they were all together to try to.
Yeah.
Whatever.
Wow.
Did that change your feeling towards them after that incident?
No, definitely I respect them even more because these animals are incredible.
Before that we were very lucky to observe them to see how they do.
And after this, after this detention moment, it's like, yeah, they have all my respect.
I really think that these monkeys are wonderful.
Yeah.
Well, I can imagine, I mean, being rescued by the, by the big male kind of.
Yeah.
Wow.
I can only imagine how scary that is to have the whole troop looking at you.
It is.
It's like a fire.
Yeah.
It's a fire.
Yeah.
And big teeth.
Big teeth.
It does, yeah.
Wow.
So we have an audio clip, which you can actually hear.
The moment that this happened, maybe we can just play it.
Yeah.
Let's play that one.
Let's have a, that's awesome.
Thanks.
So it gives you some idea.
Before we get into bad words, if you'd like to ask anything, put it in the comments.
So our next video comes outCan we actually get into bad words?
Yeah.
It's something like that, that we really can hear.
It was the rain, the thunder.
Because it was the storm, it was the monkeys fighting in the background, it was us trying
to, it was the movement because all these noises, me trying, because the microphone
at that point, I was not recording the sound, I was already trying to hide the microphone.
So it was the microphone and so I got it.
It sounds very scary.
I mean, it sounds like chaos pretty much.
Yeah.
You hear them fighting in the background?
Yeah.
Yeah, no, I can, I mean, I've never had an experience like that.
I've been surrounded by wild boar once that was also a bit scary, but monkeys are way
scarier because they're not big, but they are fast and they're strong and they can take
on a human easily, right?
Well, 20 of them easily.
Well, boars maybe, maybe it's more dangerous, no?
Well, I survived.
Yeah.
Yeah, that was also a tense moment.
Yeah.
Wow.
Yeah, I would love to see them there in the forest.
I mean, you made me a little bit more scared now, but I would still want to see them.
I know, but you'll be fine.
It's important to respect them, do not respect them, just don't put your foot in the territory
that doesn't belong to you.
But that-
Keep your distance.
And the, but that is with every, everything, respect, mainly respect the nature.
Exactly.
I agree completely.
Oh, wow.
Yeah, no, that was an amazing story.
And yeah, I can imagine that was an impactful moment also because monkeys really look at
you, right?
Like for us humans, this is a communication we can relate to really strongly.
But you should not look at them.
You don't know what kind of message you're sending them.
Unless you speak their language.
No, you should not look at them.
No, I just cross eyes, but sometimes with the humans it's the same.
Oh yeah.
If you look at human, you're going to get in trouble just out the front door.
You can't do that.
No, exactly.
Exactly.
But that's, yeah, that's what I mean.
We can understand if you're stared at, that could be an aggressive, aggressive act.
Yeah.
Awesome.
Well, and I also like very much that, you know, you had to come back there in spring
and in summer and in autumn and winter just to get those few shots that we all love so
much of those monkeys in the cedar forests, which are amazing by the way.
And that just shows how much time goes into recording that, you know, getting the monkeys
to accept you and all that.
And I think people, yeah, it's easy to forget when you watch these fantastic clips.
But you've made some nice making ofs to show how difficult it actually is to get there.
Yeah, fantastic.
Thank you so much for sharing the stories today.
The way you guys are working and flying all over the world all the time, I am sure there
will be more to come.
I hope so.
Yeah.
So one day, please let me know when you have more stories and then we can we can get together
again and hear what else adventures you you encounter on your way to getting us some fantastic
video footage.
Oh, yeah, it will be a pleasure.
It will be a pleasure to share.
Yes.
And before we go, if people want to follow you or want to know more about you, where
should they go?
Yeah.
So so we are Atlas Films.
And obviously we have the website that will point to Atlas.org.
We are as well in the Instagram, Facebook and in Israel.
You can follow our latest news on our website that we try to keep it to a plate as much
as possible.
And yeah, if you have any question or if you want to know, just send us an email or whatever.
I will put all those links with the description of the podcast for now.
Anna and Michael, thank you very much.
Thank you.
Bye bye.