1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:12,000 Hello everybody! 2 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:19,400 Joining me by the campfire today is a wildlife photographer and a newly minted PhD. 3 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:28,440 Dr. Javier Lobon Rovira has finished his PhD in November and already has a lot of publications 4 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:38,040 on the evolution, systematics and conservation of lizards, mostly lizards, in Africa and in Madagascar. 5 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:45,640 But on top of being a very active scientist and active in several conservation projects, 6 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:50,800 he's also an outstanding wildlife and conservation photographer, 7 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:57,640 with his stunning photographs appearing in many magazines, including several issues of National Geographic. 8 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:00,440 Javier, welcome to the podcast. 9 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:03,240 Hi, thank you very much. 10 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:07,840 Hey, before we start, congratulations on your PhD of course, very new. 11 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:09,440 Thank you very much. 12 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:13,440 It's on Southern African geckos. 13 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:14,640 Yeah. 14 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:22,440 So why Southern African geckos? What's so special about them? What brought you to them? 15 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:25,840 Well, geckos in general, they're amazing. 16 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:33,640 It's probably one of the most diverse group of lizards all around the world. 17 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:43,840 And the colonization of Africa or the radiation of geckos in Africa, it's just amazing with huge amounts of morphs, 18 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:51,040 left strategies and different sort of things that makes this group amazing. 19 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:56,240 And also in Southern Africa, there is still a huge gap in the knowledge of this group. 20 00:01:56,240 --> 00:02:02,040 So why not work with them definitely? 21 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:04,440 Right. Yeah, no, I've seen them in South Africa. 22 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:10,840 The Pachyractylus and all those little ground geckos, they're really quite nice. 23 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:15,440 So your stories for today, are they from Southern Africa as well? 24 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:18,440 Or where are you taking us first? 25 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:24,840 Yeah, I can take you to Angola, what is where I developed my main fieldwork. 26 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:31,240 And I have some funny stories around there. 27 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:35,440 So you were in Angola for your PhD doing fieldwork? 28 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:38,440 Yeah, I've been there like six, seven times. 29 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:39,440 Oh, okay. 30 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:48,040 Yeah. So I spent most of my time in the last five years in Angola. 31 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:51,440 And what were you doing there on this particular occasion? 32 00:02:51,440 --> 00:03:00,040 Well, I was in the coastal region that for me is the most amazing area in Angola. 33 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:07,040 The good thing in Angola is like you can go from the rainforest in the north to the Namib desert in the south. 34 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:14,640 And geckos, the Afromonte, Savannah and all the biomes, mainly all the biomes that you can find in Africa, 35 00:03:14,640 --> 00:03:20,240 you can find all together in one country, that for me is one of the most amazing things here from Angola. 36 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:21,640 Oh, wow, I didn't know that. 37 00:03:21,640 --> 00:03:23,440 Yeah, Angola is amazing. 38 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:28,440 And at the same time is one of the most unexplored countries in Africa. 39 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:34,640 So everything together makes the perfect combination to do fieldwork. 40 00:03:34,640 --> 00:03:42,640 And yeah, and in this particular occasion, I was in the coastal region that for me is the most amazing part of Angola. 41 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:46,640 The coastal region is mainly arid. 42 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:47,640 Yeah. 43 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:50,640 That goes from coastal Savannah to desert. 44 00:03:50,640 --> 00:04:04,640 And we were working in a place that now is one of our camps based or the meeting point in all our expeditions. 45 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:11,640 We always finish in that place to sleep for a day or two days to rest a little bit. 46 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:14,640 That is in the Bengala province. 47 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:20,640 And we were there at night and joined to find some geckos. 48 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:24,640 So we, this was the first time that we arrived to that place. 49 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:26,640 We arrived at night. 50 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:29,640 And that's quite close to the coast or a little bit more inland? 51 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:32,640 Yeah, it's quite close to the coast. 52 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:37,640 And so there it's a little bit Savannah, like so some patches of grass, mostly sand. 53 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:38,640 Yeah. 54 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:39,640 Yeah. 55 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:44,640 It's more arid than Savannah, a little bit more. 56 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:50,640 You have a little bit of this land tree that is called Senegalian. 57 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:54,640 There is like a thorn bush more or less. 58 00:04:54,640 --> 00:05:01,640 And it's a place where we found for the first time a genus that we described two years ago. 59 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:08,640 And then mixed to Angola, that is Bawarius, a super beautiful gecko that was disappeared for hundreds of years. 60 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:11,640 And we already discovered the species in that particular place. 61 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:12,640 Wow. 62 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:13,640 Yeah. 63 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:15,640 And that was the first time you went there. 64 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:16,640 Yeah. 65 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:17,640 Yeah. 66 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:22,640 Well, they found the gecko before I was there and we went there and we found plenty of them. 67 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:23,640 So. 68 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:24,640 Oh, wow. 69 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:27,640 So it had been lost for a hundred years. 70 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:28,640 Yeah. 71 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:29,640 Yeah. 72 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:30,640 130 years. 73 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:36,640 And the species was included within the athrogecko genus. 74 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:50,640 And when we made the genetics, something super cool that we found is that the genus is a species not related with the Afrogecko and no any other mainland Africa geckos. 75 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:54,640 And it's related with Madagascar species. 76 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:56,640 So it's, yeah. 77 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:58,640 That makes no sense. 78 00:05:58,640 --> 00:05:59,640 Wow. 79 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:00,640 Definitely. 80 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:01,640 Super freaking cool animal. 81 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:02,640 And yeah. 82 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:09,640 Yeah. So not just lost for 130 years, but also completely different thing in Africa. 83 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:10,640 Yeah. 84 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:11,640 Yeah. 85 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:18,640 So, I mean, not, I think not everybody who listens may understand how a gecko can be lost for 130 years. 86 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:23,640 So, so the point is the, the guys put describe the species. 87 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:38,640 They fall well, they supposedly found the species with only two individuals that was described in America by a researcher from America and never found the gecko again. 88 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:39,640 Okay. 89 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:41,640 For a long time. 90 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:47,640 It is true that in Angola, after the colonial era, it came to civil war. 91 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:49,640 Nobody goes there until 2002. 92 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:50,640 Yeah. 93 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:59,640 And field work, seriously field work start mostly around the 2010 something like this. 94 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:03,640 So the species was completely disappeared for a long time. 95 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:17,640 And when we found them, what we discovered is like this small gecko lives inside the branches that the termites holds that they make inside the branches and they were living inside there. 96 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:19,640 Oh, right. 97 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:26,640 So what, what our hypothesis is like the guy school phones the geckos for first time. 98 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:27,640 Yeah. 99 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:34,640 They were just chopping trees to make a fire and and the gecko show up. 100 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:35,640 Wow. 101 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:36,640 Yeah. 102 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:45,640 And after that, nobody was doing that presumably and then if you don't, so you don't, if you don't break the bushes, you don't find the geckos essentially. 103 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:56,640 Well, we found it in a different way, but but yeah, and and and the interesting thing of this part is like now we're funding the species everywhere in the Costa region everywhere. 104 00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:03,640 And right now I could say that is one of the most abundant species in Angola. 105 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:07,640 So yeah, it's it's it's yeah, it's no sense at all. 106 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:11,640 So you just needed to know where to look for them essentially. 107 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:12,640 Yeah, definitely. 108 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:19,640 Yeah. And well, if you have some experience looking for geckos and and and so on, you probably will find them easily. 109 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:28,640 But if you are not focused in finding geckos and in the particular place, it could be lost for another 100 years. 110 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:37,640 And did you realize it at the time where you're there and you're just walking around seeing a gecko and then like realizing that this one has been lost for a long time? 111 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:38,640 Yeah. 112 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:49,640 And so when my colleague because this was a phone by a first time by Petro Vespinto and there is another colleague from Angola and Portugal. 113 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:57,640 And when they found it at right at the moment, they say, OK, I think this is the gecko that was lost for a very, very long time. 114 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:03,640 And then when we explore more in detail, definitely it was the gecko and. 115 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:06,640 Yeah, it's super, super cool. 116 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:10,640 It must have been very excited for you as a PhD student at the time. 117 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:12,640 Oh, yeah. 118 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:20,640 Oh, yeah, because I have two main focus or two main back at the species. 119 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:32,640 Oh, when I started working on that was first the colicanos and the xanandemic species from Angola with a feather tail gecko that is just beautiful. 120 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:41,640 And the other one is this species and now I have seen them plenty and then several times and we discovered a new species of colicanos as well. 121 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:43,640 So yeah, yeah. 122 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:48,640 And these two findings are part of my PhD. 123 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:50,640 So yeah, super happy. 124 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:53,640 Yeah, no, I remember the feather tail gecko paper. 125 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:56,640 Yeah, yeah, beautiful animals. 126 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:58,640 Yeah, and your photos of them. 127 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:00,640 Yeah, yeah, did you see the photos of those animals? 128 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:02,640 They're beautiful. 129 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:04,640 Fantastic. 130 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:06,640 Yeah, I should show them on the video. 131 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:08,640 Yeah, I'll show them on the video. 132 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:12,640 Yeah, so if you're listening to this, you want to see them, check out the YouTube video. 133 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:14,640 Yeah, definitely. 134 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:26,640 So but the funny story in that place is that when we arrived there the first time looking for beckos, we found like a small mountain of granitic boulders. 135 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:42,640 So we thought, okay, this is a place, a part of the road so we can hide the car there, sleep there and look for geckos in the small mountain because most of them they like to be climbing in the rocks and so on. 136 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:46,640 And we were climbing at night the first day. 137 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:58,640 And I was in the left side, my colleague was in the right side and when I start to climb up, I look with my torch pointing up to the top of the small mountain. 138 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:10,640 And I see two huge eyes looking at me from the top and a completely shape of a big cat. 139 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:12,640 It was a big cat. 140 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:20,640 And I called my colleague and I started to yell at him like, Pedro, here's something, come here. 141 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:24,640 And I want to start climbing up because indeed I want to see what it was. 142 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:32,640 And when he started to climb, he called me like Javier, climb down, climb down, did I observe there? 143 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:42,640 And when I arrived to the bottom, he told me, man, I just found a leopard cage in the small mountain. 144 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:46,640 Not just any big cat, but a leopard. 145 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:48,640 It was a leopard. 146 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:54,640 And from now on, we call that place the leopard cage. 147 00:11:54,640 --> 00:12:04,640 And the day after in the morning, so we went to sleep and the day after in the morning, we climbed up again the mountain to see what is going on. 148 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:16,640 And we found again this cave with two dead corp porcupines and a skull of a huge leopard dead there. 149 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:24,640 And a lot of bones of different antelopes and other old things. 150 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:30,640 I cannot guarantee that the animal that I saw in the top of the mountain was a leopard. 151 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:36,640 Maybe it was a cataclysm or something, but still I was frightened at the night like, oh my goodness, first time. 152 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:38,640 Oh no, but it's very likely. 153 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:42,640 So after you saw the eyes, what happened then? 154 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:44,640 Did you just say turn around and go back to the tent? 155 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:56,640 No, no, when I saw the eyes, I want to climb up because I was seeing something like, but I want to see what it was because I thought, okay, maybe this is a cataclysm or a skull or something like this. 156 00:12:56,640 --> 00:13:04,640 So I want to see that animal, you know, because you never think that something that can kill you in three seconds is going to be in the top of your head. 157 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:12,640 And I just only realized that it could be a leopard when he told me like, I just see a leopard cave like, oh my goodness. 158 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:16,640 Oh, wow. 159 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:22,640 Yeah, but yeah, it was beautiful, beautiful experience that I remember every day. 160 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:24,640 Yeah, I can imagine. 161 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:28,640 Yeah, so funny. 162 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:32,640 So did you go back there again ever or was that the only time you went to the leopard cave? 163 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:40,640 Yeah, every time that we go to the coastal region, so in Angola you have to drive all the way from Luanda. 164 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:51,640 If you want to go, for example, to Iona Nacional Park, there's an amnesty in the southwest corner of Angola and all this region you have to go through the coast. 165 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:57,640 And this is like the place that we go to sleep every now and then. 166 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:01,640 It's our stop. 167 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:04,640 Still at the leopard cave and just in the tent, I imagine. 168 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:08,640 Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's nearly everything is in a tent in Angola. 169 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:13,640 But we never seen nothing big around again. 170 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:16,640 Okay, so it's the one show. 171 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:19,640 Wow, that must be frightening. 172 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:21,640 It was frightening at the moment. 173 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:26,640 Now I remember like a funny story, but at the moment was like, oh my goodness. 174 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:28,640 Yeah, no, it's not nothing. 175 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:33,640 I remember just in Morocco walking around at night and then you're looking at small stuff, right? 176 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:34,640 You're looking for geckos. 177 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:42,640 I was looking for scorpions and you look up and there's these big green eyes staring at you and you feel pretty alone in the dark there, right? 178 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:43,640 Definitely. 179 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:48,640 Well, the first thing that I did was call my friend like, come here, come here. 180 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:51,640 I'm going to climb up, but come here with me. 181 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:53,640 Yeah. 182 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:59,640 But yeah, but you know, in Africa, these things could happen all the time. 183 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:04,640 Like if you have big, big carnivores and big predators, then there are rounds. 184 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:13,640 You just have to be careful, be being conscious and and be aware that everything could happen and and be alert. 185 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:15,640 And that's it. 186 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:16,640 Wow. 187 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:18,640 Yeah, that's very cool. 188 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:21,640 Yeah, big cats are nice. 189 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:28,640 And did you see the other the other cats like catacombs more often or I have never seen a catacombs in my life. 190 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:30,640 Never ever. 191 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:34,640 And I have seen a several only once. 192 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:36,640 Oh, well, yeah. 193 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:44,640 And I've been looking for in the Sahara in Morocco and all these areas for for the Sahara cats, the Feliz Margarita. 194 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:46,640 And likely the cute ones. 195 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:48,640 I have never seen them. 196 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:51,640 For me, they are the most beautiful cats in the planet. 197 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:54,640 Yeah, with the rounded face and the stocky. 198 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:59,640 And living in the red desert, yeah, just unique animal. 199 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:02,640 Hard to find, I imagine. 200 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:03,640 Yeah. 201 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:09,640 And I see lions, the Leo Pats and cheetahs in other parts of Africa, but no, no in Angola. 202 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:12,640 In Angola, everything is it's mostly gone. 203 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:13,640 Okay. 204 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:14,640 Yeah. 205 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:16,640 Is that because of the Civil War? 206 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:17,640 Yeah, they kill everything. 207 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:19,640 They kill absolutely everything. 208 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:25,640 They almost extinct the giant sable that is the symbol of the country. 209 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:28,640 So yeah, they kill absolutely everything. 210 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:32,640 But now it's recovering slowly. 211 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:34,640 But yeah, let's see. 212 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:35,640 Yeah. 213 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:38,640 So you're also working on the conservation of the giant sable. 214 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:40,640 At least you're involved in that project, right? 215 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:41,640 Yeah. 216 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:47,640 Well, Pedro, that is my colleague from Angola that I do all the field work with him. 217 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:51,640 I'm the leader of the conservation plan of the giant sable. 218 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:54,640 So I try to help them when I can. 219 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:59,640 Mainly taking photos or helping out going there to the fields. 220 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:01,640 Yeah, your photos are amazing, man. 221 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:09,640 They're really, I don't know, impactful because of the lighting and the kind of lenses you're using. 222 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:11,640 It's really striking. 223 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:13,640 I like that in your top 10 on your website. 224 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:17,640 And I will I will link to the website with this podcast. 225 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,640 But in your top 10, you have a scorpion there as well. 226 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:21,640 Oh, yeah. 227 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:29,640 Yeah, I think in the top 10, that one is a Buddhist of sepitanus or Ibericus. 228 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:31,640 I took the photo in Madrid. 229 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:33,640 So next to my house. 230 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:37,640 Oh, and that's you don't have to go that far. 231 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:38,640 Yeah. 232 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:45,640 That's something that people always tell me like, oh, the police in National Geographic because you go then and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 233 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:52,640 But the 90% of my photos, police in National Geographic are from Spain or Portugal. 234 00:17:52,640 --> 00:18:03,640 So you sometimes just need to keep pushing, pushing and look the the light and look the the frame that you want to to get. 235 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:11,640 And and and and of course, being lucky because there's 200 million photographers doing incredible work. 236 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:15,640 And sometimes you just need to be the right police at the right moment. 237 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:20,640 So does that help for you to be a biologist and a photographer at the same time? 238 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:27,640 Or is that are these completely different and incompatible incompatible activities in the field? 239 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:28,640 No, no, no. 240 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:46,640 Well, for me, what allows me to take more photos and more photos is be biologists and go to the fields frequently and and collaborate with different colleagues working in the multi on mythology and different fields. 241 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:57,640 So I can I can find different places or cool animals or targets or or or and right important stories that you want to tell. 242 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:06,640 And because they are working in that and and I can help them to documents their work or whatever. 243 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:18,640 So so I think if you are not a biologist and you want to do nature photography, you need to be close to a biologist working with your study group. 244 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:21,640 That's the experience that I have. 245 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:30,640 Yeah, so it's really just not your own field work, but the fact that you know other biologists that who can give you access or tips or whatever. 246 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:34,640 Yeah, a different point of view that you will never find it by the wrong probably. 247 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:36,640 Yeah. 248 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:39,640 Well, your your gecko example is a good one. 249 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:43,640 If you don't know where to find that one, you're not going to find it apparently for 130 years. 250 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:45,640 Yes. 251 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:47,640 Definitely. 252 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:49,640 Awesome. 253 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:54,640 So yeah, what what else adventures did you? 254 00:19:54,640 --> 00:20:00,640 Yeah, I have another story and the Costa Bride in Angola as well. 255 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:10,640 And I because you've been to lots of places you've been to Madagascar all over South Africa, Southern Africa, but Angola is the place where things happen then. 256 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:15,640 Yeah, I think it's because I spent more time there. 257 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:27,640 And I spent a lot of time in the field that allows these things to happen. 258 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:29,640 Yeah. 259 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:33,640 I remember one that it was in the in the, it was in Bengal as well. 260 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:37,640 We were looking for dwarf vipers. 261 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:42,640 And that they're very common in the South, in the deep South. 262 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:52,640 But as much north that you move the population decrease significantly. 263 00:20:52,640 --> 00:21:00,640 And we were like in the northern distribution area of the species. 264 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:09,640 And we were like for three hours to the village in gravel plains with a lot of small rocks and the hand under the rocks. 265 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:15,640 And we were looking for for this animal for a long time. 266 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:19,640 So we were looking at night or during the day? How does that work during the day? 267 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,640 Like flipping rocks flipping rocks flipping rocks. 268 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:30,640 And I was with with again with Pedro and his son looking for for for the vipers. 269 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:32,640 We were like for three hours looking for them. 270 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:35,640 Nothing, nothing, nothing at all. 271 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:41,640 And suddenly I saw Cordillo's autos that is a small lizard with a blue tail. 272 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:42,640 Beautiful. 273 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:43,640 Nice. 274 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:45,640 Extremely fast. 275 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:52,640 So we I start to chase the animal and I called Pedro and his son like he came here. 276 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:55,640 There is a cool lizard here. Let's see if we can catch it. 277 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:59,640 And we were moving around once and again. 278 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:03,640 And and at the end the animal went under a rock. 279 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:05,640 And we were okay. 280 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:11,640 Pedro, you flip the rock and me and Alfonso we catch the animal fast. 281 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:14,640 And then we were all prepared. 282 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:17,640 Pedro was about to flip the rock. 283 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:18,640 He flipped the rock. 284 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:28,640 And when we were going to put it in the hands, the the small lizard, the color of the little soft hide under a dwarf vipers. 285 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:37,640 But I saw the animal, but Pedro also he didn't see the vipers and he put the two hands on the top of the vipers. 286 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:38,640 Like boom. 287 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:43,640 And he wrapped the vipers and we start to yell him like so fun. 288 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:44,640 Like no, no, no, no. 289 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:45,640 And he just threw it. 290 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:49,640 And he was lucky like hell. 291 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:51,640 Like oh my goodness. 292 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:55,640 And he was and he was about 11 years. 293 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,640 So it was also still quite small. 294 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:00,640 So the venom would have been even worse. 295 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:01,640 Oh my goodness. 296 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:02,640 Yeah. 297 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:04,640 So we're like whoa. 298 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:09,640 But he grabbed the viper with the hands like whoa. 299 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:17,640 And he was lucky that because that that's a that dwarf viper is the biggest of Alice. 300 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:18,640 They just to bite twice. 301 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:22,640 So and they bite fast and twice like. 302 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:28,640 And I don't know how maybe the viper was not even realized what is going on. 303 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:30,640 Like just turned the rocket up right. 304 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:31,640 Yeah. 305 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:32,640 Yeah. 306 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:36,640 But he was really lucky to get smelt by it and by the. 307 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:43,640 It's a bad idea to start grabbing at something you haven't seen yet. 308 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:47,640 Yeah, definitely, definitely, definitely. 309 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:49,640 That was hilarious. 310 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:50,640 Like oh my goodness. 311 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:51,640 Yeah. 312 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:57,640 Lucky kid because I imagine you were quite far from a hospital or anything like that. 313 00:23:57,640 --> 00:23:58,640 Oh yeah. 314 00:23:58,640 --> 00:23:59,640 Oh yeah. 315 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:00,640 Yeah. 316 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:04,640 And we were in the ones there were no chances to go to the hospital where we were we were 317 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:10,640 in the middle of nowhere about five or six hours from the closest hospital. 318 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:11,640 Okay. 319 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,640 But that one was that would have been bad. 320 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:15,640 Yeah. 321 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:16,640 Definitely. 322 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:18,640 And yeah. 323 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:26,640 But the one in a goal I was like was a thing like that's a story to tell like oh my goodness. 324 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:27,640 Yeah. 325 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:28,640 Yeah. 326 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:32,640 That would have ended quite badly but you got both the lizard and the snake or. 327 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:33,640 We wrote balls. 328 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:34,640 Yeah. 329 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:35,640 Definitely. 330 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:37,640 So it ended. 331 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:39,640 We realized that it was a viper. 332 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:41,640 We just take the gloves and the tongs. 333 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:46,640 We take the viper first and then the Lisa then we take some photos on these samples and release 334 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:48,640 them. 335 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,640 I wasn't important sample. 336 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:53,640 I imagine the northern part of the range. 337 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:54,640 Yeah. 338 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:55,640 It was an important sample. 339 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:56,640 Definitely. 340 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:57,640 Yeah. 341 00:24:57,640 --> 00:24:58,640 Definitely. 342 00:24:58,640 --> 00:24:59,640 Yeah. 343 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:00,640 Yeah. 344 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:01,640 Yeah. 345 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:02,640 I always watch where you put your fingers on. 346 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:03,640 Oh yeah. 347 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:04,640 No. 348 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:05,640 No no no. 349 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,640 It's sometimes it's like you are focusing something and you don't realize what you have around. 350 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:09,640 But yeah. 351 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:13,640 Well I have I have other stories as well. 352 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:19,640 I mean in Morocco or something like flipping rocks and suddenly a cobra saw me now or something 353 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:21,640 like this like a cobra. 354 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:22,640 Yeah. 355 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:23,640 Oh yeah. 356 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:24,640 Wow. 357 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:25,640 Yeah. 358 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:26,640 Yeah. 359 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:27,640 Flipping rocks. 360 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:28,640 Yeah. 361 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:29,640 The things come out. 362 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:30,640 Definitely. 363 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:31,640 Definitely. 364 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:32,640 Definitely. 365 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:33,640 They're not happy about it usually. 366 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:34,640 Oh no. 367 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:35,640 No at all. 368 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:36,640 Yeah. 369 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:37,640 Oh wow. 370 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:38,640 That's a bit. 371 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:39,640 Yeah. 372 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:45,640 I mean sure when you flip rocks and there's something really striking there like you know 373 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:51,640 that you're on red sand and there's like a black beetle or something that gets your attention 374 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:55,640 not the sand colored huge scorpion that's sitting next to it. 375 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:56,640 Definitely. 376 00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:04,640 Oh but talking about the scorpions I remember once that I in a game it was raining like 377 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:13,140 crazy and we found a peluchius that is a pons turtle at the rugby crossing the road at night 378 00:26:13,140 --> 00:26:15,640 raining like crazy and we stopped the car. 379 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:22,140 I take the the turtle out of the road I put it on the car and suddenly when I flip the 380 00:26:22,140 --> 00:26:25,640 the turtle it was an scorpion underneath. 381 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:26,640 Oh. 382 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:27,640 Like taking a ride. 383 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:28,640 Really. 384 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:29,640 And we were cleaning the house. 385 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:30,640 Cleaning to the belly. 386 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:31,640 Yeah. 387 00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:32,640 And it was a parabutus. 388 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:34,640 Oh. 389 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:35,640 And oh dangerous. 390 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:36,640 That's a dangerous scorpion. 391 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:37,640 Yeah. 392 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:38,640 Yeah. 393 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:44,640 And we were like looking at the at the doctor like with the hands and and it was like like 394 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:46,640 taking the ride. 395 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:48,640 Super happy. 396 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:52,240 That's straight because normally parabutuses don't cling to the underside of rocks. 397 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:55,640 They usually more or more digging and. 398 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:56,640 Yeah. 399 00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:57,640 Must have been the rain. 400 00:26:57,640 --> 00:26:58,640 We must have the. 401 00:26:58,640 --> 00:26:59,640 Yeah. 402 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:00,640 It was raining like crazy. 403 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:01,640 Yeah. 404 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:10,640 But we must have the photo somewhere about the that's a combination between two species. 405 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:12,640 How did the scorpion cross the road. 406 00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:13,640 Oh yes. 407 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:14,640 On a turtle. 408 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:15,640 Yeah. 409 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:16,640 Yeah. 410 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:17,640 Awesome. 411 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:18,640 Yeah. 412 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:19,640 Yeah. 413 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:20,640 It was fun. 414 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:21,640 Cool. 415 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,640 And are you going back to Angola anytime soon. 416 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:26,640 I don't know yet. 417 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:34,640 I would like to go maybe next year I'm going to Namibian Angola if I'm lucky. 418 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:35,640 But yeah. 419 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:39,640 Let's see what what things brings next year. 420 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:40,640 Yeah. 421 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:46,640 But yeah I still have projects in Angola to need to be done. 422 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:47,640 So. 423 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:53,640 So will it be geckos or other things geckos and frogs mainly. 424 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:54,640 Nice. 425 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:55,640 Yeah. 426 00:27:55,640 --> 00:28:00,640 So we start working in we start working in Cabinda. 427 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:08,640 There is an Angolan enclave within the two congos the democratic republic of Congo and 428 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:09,640 Congo-Basabu. 429 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:10,640 Oh really. 430 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:11,640 Yeah. 431 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,640 In the in the rainforest is north of Congo river. 432 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:25,480 And we are going there for first time like doing biodiversity studies after the the 433 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:27,440 war mainly. 434 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,520 And it's still a little bit complicated. 435 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:37,480 But now is where we are mostly focused to do the next work and and so on. 436 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:38,480 But yeah. 437 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:43,480 There is there is some challenges still in that area. 438 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:44,480 Yeah. 439 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,760 But it's probably unexplored because of that. 440 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:53,360 So you might find another very rare gecko or new species like you've done so many times 441 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:54,360 before. 442 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:55,360 Yeah. 443 00:28:55,360 --> 00:29:01,440 And I expect to find it is something that I always say when I'm going to the fields 444 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:06,000 is and people tell me you're not afraid of this or this animal. 445 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:15,560 And in places like this they think that finding me the most is to find another person. 446 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:17,360 Because you you never know. 447 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:20,760 They have like a small war. 448 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:27,880 They're like not a civil war was like a armed conflict. 449 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:34,040 And so the last thing that you want to find in the middle of the forest at night is probably 450 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:35,540 another person. 451 00:29:35,540 --> 00:29:36,540 Yeah. 452 00:29:36,540 --> 00:29:38,400 I have that experience. 453 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:39,400 Yeah. 454 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:40,400 Yeah. 455 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:41,400 Yeah. 456 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:42,400 Yeah. 457 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,680 It's showing up with Kalashnikov when you're just there with your flashlights. 458 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:46,680 Yeah. 459 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:47,680 Yeah. 460 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:48,680 Please go. 461 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:49,680 Yeah. 462 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:53,280 They can be they can be serious. 463 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:54,280 Yeah. 464 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:56,000 Well, take care man. 465 00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:01,320 Be careful out there and take some nice pictures for the rest of us. 466 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,400 I will try. 467 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:07,960 So if people want to see some of your pictures and want to know more about the projects you're 468 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,000 doing where can they go? 469 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,960 Well they can go to my website definitely. 470 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:18,920 And I try to post on there most of my work. 471 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:22,880 It is true that the photographic work is not the most updated. 472 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:27,680 Maybe the most updated go to Instagram or something like this. 473 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:28,680 Right. 474 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:30,320 What's your Instagram handle? 475 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:34,120 Do you know by heart by any chance? 476 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:35,120 The name. 477 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:36,120 Do you mean? 478 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:37,120 Yeah. 479 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:38,120 Yeah. 480 00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:39,120 It's the same as my name is Javier. 481 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:40,120 Okay. 482 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:41,120 And underscore Logan Robira. 483 00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:42,120 So. 484 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:43,120 Okay. 485 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:44,120 Perfect. 486 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:45,120 They can find it. 487 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:46,120 Go find it. 488 00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:48,760 And the scientific work I try to publish everything on my website but they can find it as well in 489 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,080 the presser gate or whatever they look for. 490 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:55,320 My name they can find everything that I'm doing. 491 00:30:55,320 --> 00:31:01,280 And if they have any questions I'm always happy to reply the emails or whatever if they 492 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:04,760 want to reach me out or whatever. 493 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:05,760 Yeah. 494 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:06,760 Awesome. 495 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:09,760 Javier, thank you very much. 496 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:11,200 Thanks to you for inviting me. 497 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,320 It was wonderful. 498 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:17,640 Well, your stories are amazing and I hope you come back with more. 499 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:22,520 Yeah, I can tell you some more stories from Costa Rica and other places where I developed 500 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:23,520 some work. 501 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:27,160 I have some funny stories in Costa Rica as well that I can tell you. 502 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:29,160 Well, well, don't stop now. 503 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:33,440 Well, I can tell you one if you want. 504 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:38,240 I remember because I was the one in Costa Rica working with seed orbitals. 505 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:39,240 Seed orbitals. 506 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:43,000 Yeah, with leather bags mainly. 507 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:48,280 This was back in 2016 I guess. 508 00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:57,400 And we used to patrol at night to see if the females are coming out to nest and lay the 509 00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:06,240 eggs and take some measurements and if some nest need to be relocated or so on. 510 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:10,560 But we used to go in pairs. 511 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:15,080 So two persons go together because something will happen. 512 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:16,240 So that's at night, right? 513 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,640 You're walking on the beach at night in the dark. 514 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,320 In the tropical nights in Costa Rica. 515 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:23,320 Sweet. 516 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:24,320 Yes. 517 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:25,320 Yeah. 518 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:31,440 And there were some stories before I started working there because Costa Rica is beautiful 519 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:39,080 for many things but in the Caribbean it's like a highway, demanding highway for drives 520 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:42,120 from South of America to the north. 521 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:50,320 And many times the dealers go in the coast and they see lights in the beach. 522 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:54,680 They think there are police or something and they start to shoot without asking. 523 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:55,680 Right. 524 00:32:55,680 --> 00:33:00,920 So yeah, so that never happened to me but there is a story that they were telling in 525 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:02,680 their reserve where I was working. 526 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:11,120 But I remember one night that I was patrolling alone because one of the colleagues was sick 527 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:12,120 or something happened. 528 00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:14,800 I don't remember what. 529 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:19,240 And it was raining like so bad. 530 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:20,240 So bad. 531 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:21,480 Raining a lot. 532 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:22,480 Okay. 533 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:27,800 And I was working at the beach and something started to light. 534 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,360 I didn't know what it was. 535 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:39,400 And in one second a sun hit the beach like 300 meters or even less. 536 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:40,800 No, 300 meters. 537 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:43,720 30 meters away from me. 538 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:45,480 I get blind. 539 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,400 The sun was like crazy. 540 00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:53,160 Like right next to me like oh my goodness. 541 00:33:53,160 --> 00:34:04,520 I get blind, get served and I run into the rainforest because there is the line of forest 542 00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:06,600 goes next to the beach. 543 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:08,920 So I was working in the beach. 544 00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:12,800 So I had a little bit there. 545 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:18,280 It was Friday and like this is if I move here the next one is going to be in my head. 546 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:25,400 And suddenly two leather bikes came out from the water. 547 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:29,120 So I thought okay I have to measure these animals. 548 00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:32,760 They cannot escape and maybe something happened. 549 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:45,160 So I went to measure the animal, take all the values and all the information that we 550 00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:46,520 just record. 551 00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:52,680 When I was with the second one, the second fan, again next to me. 552 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:54,240 So lightning hitting the beach. 553 00:34:54,240 --> 00:34:58,240 I think so bad, like so bad, like next to me. 554 00:34:58,240 --> 00:35:04,800 And then I'd like say okay I go home and I start running the beach. 555 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,880 I don't want to be here anymore. 556 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:09,880 That was Friday night. 557 00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:10,880 Wow. 558 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,080 So twice close to you. 559 00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:14,080 Yeah. 560 00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:17,640 But really that never happened to me ever. 561 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:19,240 Like really next to me. 562 00:35:19,240 --> 00:35:26,200 You get blind in one second and the sounds like extremely are like you are breaking 563 00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:29,560 it into like and I was like oh my goodness. 564 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:34,760 And I thought okay the storm is passing so I'm going to measure the animals and again. 565 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,680 Oh my god. 566 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:38,680 Friday night. 567 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:41,160 It was Friday night. 568 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,320 This is one of the worst experiences that I have in my life, like really frightening. 569 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:45,320 Really? 570 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:46,320 Like oh my gosh. 571 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:47,800 I'm going to die here. 572 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,800 This wasn't bad. 573 00:35:50,800 --> 00:36:00,000 Like really bad because when the light hits the ground, everything trumbles like so bad. 574 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,960 Like earthquake or something like that. 575 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:03,960 And you get blind. 576 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:08,000 Everything happening in less than a second. 577 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:09,000 Yeah. 578 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:10,000 Yeah. 579 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:11,320 That must be so loud. 580 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:14,480 And so were you able to see where the lightning hit? 581 00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:15,480 No. 582 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:16,480 Was there like any trace? 583 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:17,480 No. 584 00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:21,480 I'm not even sure if it hits the beach or maybe it was a little bit in the water. 585 00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:22,480 Sorry. 586 00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:24,560 I have no idea. 587 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,960 But really like next to me. 588 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:32,480 You always think that you know lightning goes for trees or something but it was not all. 589 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:34,480 And it was coming from the water for sure. 590 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:40,280 Because the storm was coming from the Caribbean ocean and going inland. 591 00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:41,280 Yeah. 592 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:42,280 Yeah. 593 00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,280 That is pretty frightening. 594 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:47,040 No, definitely. 595 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:48,960 There was a experience in my life. 596 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:54,400 And then when I was patrolling there, you find always things like you are patrolling in that 597 00:36:54,400 --> 00:37:00,040 way and when you go back, you see how our brains in the beach, these sort of things. 598 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:03,320 That happens frequently. 599 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:06,320 But you were much more frightened by the lightning than by the jaguars. 600 00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:07,320 Oh yes. 601 00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:08,320 Yes. 602 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:09,320 Yes. 603 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:10,320 Definitely. 604 00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:11,320 Definitely. 605 00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:12,320 I don't know. 606 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:13,320 The lightning was super scary. 607 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:14,320 Yeah. 608 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:15,320 Crazy. 609 00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:16,320 Yeah. 610 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,320 I can just imagine how loud that would must be so close as frightening. 611 00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:20,320 Yeah. 612 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:21,320 Yeah. 613 00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:23,960 And after that, did you continue with the measuring? 614 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:24,960 No. 615 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:25,960 No. 616 00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:32,800 I run away and I hide in the small houses that would have it in the reserve and that 617 00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:34,280 day was enough for me. 618 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:35,280 Okay. 619 00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:42,320 I'm really here for conservation but I still put my life in the moorish at least tonight. 620 00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:43,800 Maybe tomorrow we will see. 621 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:45,200 No, not tonight. 622 00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:46,200 Yeah. 623 00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:49,280 Those two data points will have to come some other time. 624 00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:50,280 Oh yeah. 625 00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:51,280 Oh yeah. 626 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:52,280 Definitely. 627 00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:53,280 Definitely. 628 00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:57,280 It sounds very cool though measuring leatherback turtles there. 629 00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:58,280 Oh yeah. 630 00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:01,440 This is beautiful experience again. 631 00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:08,080 I've been lacking because I have collaborated some really beautiful projects and this one 632 00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:15,680 was the one that takes me for first time to Costa Rica and there is a place that I love 633 00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:17,080 and the leatherbacks. 634 00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:23,280 You don't realize how big they are and if you have one between your arms. 635 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:32,400 I think that year we measure and female that it was about 1 meter, 90 something centimeters 636 00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:33,760 of carapace, only carapace. 637 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:34,760 Yeah. 638 00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:35,760 Huge animal. 639 00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:36,760 Yeah. 640 00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:37,760 Huge animal. 641 00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,400 It's taller than I am just a shell. 642 00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:41,400 Yeah. 643 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:42,400 Yeah. 644 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:43,400 And how they move in the beach. 645 00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:50,520 Like how it's possible that these animals could take this life and it's really scary 646 00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:58,040 because the beaches in the Caribbean, ocean of Costa Rica, they are disappearing because 647 00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:04,800 the, for example, what happens in the beach that we were that is, I think is the third 648 00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:08,840 more important nesting population in the world. 649 00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:15,240 I think the first is Gabon, then French Guayama and then this one in Costa Rica. 650 00:39:15,240 --> 00:39:24,280 And what it's happened is that they built a huge port in the city of Limón, south of 651 00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:25,280 the Caribbean ocean. 652 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:26,280 Yeah. 653 00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:31,720 And it seems like they changed a little bit the currents of the sea because of the coastal 654 00:39:31,720 --> 00:39:32,720 line. 655 00:39:32,720 --> 00:39:33,720 Yeah. 656 00:39:33,720 --> 00:39:39,960 And the beach was in Huatroces going to the forest. 657 00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:46,640 So if they lose all the sand needed to nest, the population can disappear. 658 00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:47,640 Oh, wow. 659 00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:52,200 Anything they can do about it? 660 00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:53,840 I'm not sure. 661 00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:58,120 I think there is not too much to be done. 662 00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:04,960 But this, together with the global warming, because I don't know if you know, but the 663 00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:10,880 sex of the sea turtles depends on the temperature of the incubation. 664 00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:13,800 And with the global warming, what we have is more males. 665 00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:21,480 So we have the sea is full of sea of males sea turtles. 666 00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:22,880 And we are losing all the females. 667 00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:26,520 And if we lose the females, we lose the species, definitely. 668 00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:27,520 Yeah. 669 00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:28,520 Yeah. 670 00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:32,880 Sexual temperature dependent sex determination in reptiles is a problem with climate change. 671 00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:35,240 So with your geckos, I imagine. 672 00:40:35,240 --> 00:40:36,240 Yeah. 673 00:40:36,240 --> 00:40:37,240 Yeah. 674 00:40:37,240 --> 00:40:42,240 But it is true that geckos, they used to lie the eggs on the rocks or in the cracks. 675 00:40:42,240 --> 00:40:47,840 So the temperature is more, well, it's used to stay cooler. 676 00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:48,840 Oh, yeah. 677 00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:51,440 It depends on the species, of course. 678 00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:58,920 But it's not as dramatic as it could be with sea turtles because they lie the eggs in the 679 00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:04,920 sand of the beach that is exposed to the, to the, to the, like, the external temperature, 680 00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:05,920 like, right? 681 00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:11,200 100 percent and the heat of the sun every day and so on. 682 00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:12,200 So yeah. 683 00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:18,280 If they need to start laying their eggs a little bit deeper. 684 00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:23,440 Maybe that is the solution or they start to learn how to get into the forest and dial 685 00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:26,280 in the eggs into the forest. 686 00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:27,280 And yeah, yeah. 687 00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:28,280 I don't know. 688 00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:29,280 Yeah. 689 00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:30,280 They never know. 690 00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:33,760 Maybe the combination of things will, will solve it a little bit. 691 00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:34,760 We'll have to see. 692 00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:35,760 Yeah. 693 00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:39,400 Well, as species just what happens to everything, but some others disappear. 694 00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:40,400 So let's see. 695 00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:41,400 Yeah. 696 00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:42,400 Now, they're amazing. 697 00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:46,840 We both, we work in Portugal or we worked in Portugal. 698 00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:47,840 Yeah. 699 00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:52,280 And actually on the beach there, I once had a leatherback washing up a dead one, but 700 00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:54,640 it shows you how far they get. 701 00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:55,640 Yeah. 702 00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:57,280 Well, they are, they are everywhere. 703 00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:58,280 Absolutely everywhere. 704 00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:01,280 Occasionally, even in the North Sea here. 705 00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:02,280 Yeah. 706 00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:03,280 Yeah. 707 00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:04,280 Yeah. 708 00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:05,280 Yeah. 709 00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:06,280 No, definitely. 710 00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:10,240 These animals and, and well, this is fascinating because when they were, they stay in the deep 711 00:42:10,240 --> 00:42:20,280 sea for over, I think it's around 30 years to get maturity and, and we reproduce at this. 712 00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:24,280 So yeah, this is amazing animals. 713 00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:25,280 Yeah. 714 00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:26,280 Definitely. 715 00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:28,520 It's time to grow if you just eat jellyfish, right? 716 00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:29,520 Yeah. 717 00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:30,520 Definitely. 718 00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:31,520 Definitely. 719 00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:32,520 Not good, not good food. 720 00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:33,520 Yeah. 721 00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:34,520 All right. 722 00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:35,520 That was amazing. 723 00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:36,520 Yeah. 724 00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:38,960 I just see lightning that, that close twice in a row. 725 00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:39,960 Yeah. 726 00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:40,960 Yeah. 727 00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:41,960 Have you running back? 728 00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:42,960 Definitely. 729 00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:43,960 Yeah. 730 00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:44,960 No, this year. 731 00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:45,960 So be careful out there. 732 00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:48,640 Thanks again for being on. 733 00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:54,200 And Javier, yeah, people should go and look at your photos because they are gorgeous and 734 00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:57,200 they really show the animals in such an amazing light. 735 00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:02,640 It's, it's really worthwhile finding Javier's website and going to have a look at it. 736 00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:03,640 Thanks. 737 00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:04,640 Thank you very much, Arie. 738 00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:05,640 Thank you. 739 00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:06,640 Bye-bye. 740 00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:30,120 Bye.