So today I have the pleasure of talking to Dr. Angelica Crottini.
She got a PhD at the University of Milan and then did a postdoc in Braunschweig and eventually
ended up here in Portugal.
You have published, I was trying to look up how many papers you've published.
I got somewhere around 200, correct?
No, no, no.
Under 150 I think.
Well, yeah, Google said 150 and other things said 200, but it's ridiculous.
Come on.
So okay, so she publishes prolifically and she does most of her work in Madagascar.
Working on frogs, but also other creatures lately.
Come on, tell us, but it's all Madagascar, always.
So what is it about Madagascar?
Why Madagascar?
Because Madagascar is a fantastic place.
So first of all, I have to say it's a fantastic place in general, but it's also true that
I've really grown up with being totally fascinated by Madagascar.
And I mean, it's really as stupid, let's say, as that.
So basically I think I was like something three or four years, three or four years.
And I have a brother which is much older than me.
And he had a book about the wildlife that was threatened.
And I was just spending my time reading this.
I think when I got one, they completely fascinated.
It was like, as I said, three, four years maybe.
But these are two pages about Madagascar.
So they totally stole my attention completely.
And I still remember, well, I still have the book consciously at home, but I was completely
fascinated.
There was a Fursifer Chameleon and the A.I.
And those for me, they were like, wow.
So if there is a place where I want to be, that's Madagascar.
And basically this is really, you know, like completely, you know, draw the direction of
my life.
I mean, we got to know each other.
We were collaborating with, yeah, with, you know, Madsens.
Yeah.
And you were already working on Madagascar things, but it went back that far.
Yeah.
That was just an ordeal as a page.
Wow.
You've got three or four years.
So I got completely, completely obsessed by Madagascar.
So I was begging my parents to take me to libraries to read about Madagascar.
They wanted pictures of animals from Madagascar.
And so it was basically like this.
So I was completely obsessed by Madagascar.
Yes.
And it makes me so how many times have you been?
More or less.
I think maybe eight or nine is not really that much.
Okay.
In terms of yes.
But I mean, it's I mean, I had the luck basically.
So the thing is this one.
I've been working for a long time.
I mean, the diversity of Madagascar is just crazy.
And so especially when we are speaking about amphibian and reptiles.
So it really took me ages to become familiar to the diversity of Madagascar that I felt
I was confident enough to be able to go in the field and do something meaningful with
that.
And yeah, so I mean, I've been my first time to Madagascar was in 2001.
And so now 22 years ago, it's quite scary to look in that way.
And so I was still a student at the university.
And again, it was I mean, they were organizing during the university like a field course.
And I still remember I saw this advertising in the theater of the university.
Again it was a first of a first.
I mean, yeah, it's a people that are now.
Panther chameleon.
Yeah.
And again, I will say, wow, so this must be something about Madagascar.
So yeah, then I enrolled in that course.
And we went to Masoala, which is an amazing place in the northeast of Madagascar.
And basically we had to be in it was quite nice because it was at the time that they
were doing this super cool project of the name was the Rado de Platt.
And so basically it was a world expedition and they were kind of putting up on the canopy
of the forest of the five amazing place of the world.
Like it was Brazil.
It was actually it was Brazil, it was called it was Madagascar, Indonesia.
And if I'm not wrong, Queensland, Australia, something like this.
And we end up by coincidence, they were working in Masoala in the period that we were there
with this field course.
So I even had the opportunity and while I was a student to really get to know what the
real scientists are doing and it was super cool and see all the things that they were
discovering.
And was it as great as you thought it would be when you got to here?
Much better, much better.
The real life is even much better because I think really until you do not get to understand,
I think is so the diversity and the unknown diversity that there is still in Madagascar
is completely mind blowing.
And I think that until you do not really work in Madagascar and are aware of these of this
gap, you are not really fully uncovering the potential of these, understanding fully the
potential of these sites.
Totally.
So I mean, I might have a bit bias, but this is also part of my...
And have you been to other journals in the world to compare?
Not really, not...
I've been in a couple of places that can be, but not really tropical areas.
Not really tropical areas.
Nothing to compare to Madagascar.
And I said I'm obsessed with Madagascar.
So for the people who have never been to Madagascar, which is most people in the world, including
me, what's it like there?
What is it like to be in Madagascar?
Well, I mean, doing field work can be quite challenging because of course, infrastructure
in Madagascar are not very well developed.
And I mean, basically there are a few roads that used to be railway, but is now basically
used mostly only for goods.
So I would say the general infrastructure is not very good.
It's also true that Madagascar is one of the poorest countries in the world.
And of course, this is what really makes it a place quite challenging, both in terms,
I would say logistically, but I think also in terms of, how can I say, like really in
terms of challenging for new people that go to Madagascar to do field work.
Because you basically face a completely different reality and can be like a bit of a shock,
I think, for several.
Because of the poverty and the different challenges that the people that you will inevitably be
working with, they are facing, you know, and to which you will be obviously have to consider
and at least think about it.
Well, I mean, they're struggling for life, so really, you know, and do not have enough
food to feed your family or do not have medicine for your sick kid and these type of things.
So it's all pressure that if you stay in a place for long enough to build some kind of
relationship, of course, they can be challenging.
I mean, of course, I mean, for someone go to Madagascar once or come back, maybe you
do not really have these these perception, right.
But but if you go repeatedly, yes.
So if you go repeatedly in a place, for example, is a shocking for me to see that, as I said,
is a 22 years of the time, the time span that I knew Madagascar that I went there the first
time.
And I mean, is a shocking to know that there are forests that I saw that are not existing
anymore.
Yeah, so it's a it's a common misconception about the dust right that it's all a big jungle
island.
But but it's not it's really not.
It's just a little eastern edge, which is green.
The rest is very dry.
Yes, it's very dry.
And a lot of it.
Let's also put it in this way.
It's also true that the part that is dry, there are several areas that still are super
interesting and that still hold some native vegetation and still hosting lots of beautiful
biodiversity.
But it's true that I mean, there is a lot of deforestation going on and so a lot of
destruction.
And all the deforestation is happening in a very small part of Madagascar, which is
green because it's a big island.
But the but the gym was quite small.
OK, so I have people.
So just to put the people who listen in in Madagascar, it's hot, I presume.
Well, it depends where you are.
But any in the time of the period where you are, the only year.
Yes.
If you are on the if you are on the Antananarivo, the capital of Madagascar, if you are there
during our boreal summer, then it's cold.
Right.
Because the capital lays on a high plateau.
And how cold are we talking here?
I would say not freezing, but it can be quite cold.
Yes.
Not freezing, but and I know that there are a few record anyway of snow every now and
then.
Wow.
So and people tell me that Madagascar smells of vanilla.
That again, it depends where you are.
So if you are up in the north of Madagascar, yes, then it will smell about a little.
If you are in the West, there's no way that there will be that you will going to see an
orchid.
Yeah, so it really depends on because that's also the thing of Madagascar is that I mean,
we think it is an island.
We might not really fully understand the extent of the dimension that is a piece of land.
So it's really it's a really big island.
So lots of also climatically is extremely heterogeneous.
So we have extreme heat in some areas and then we have a very monosonic weather in the
east and cold to most of us in the mountains.
So it's really heterogeneous.
And the Vettampona Nature Reserve.
I had the Madagascar names are just.
Vettampona Nature Reserve, what's that like?
Is that the jungle?
Yes, it is jungle.
Actually Vettampona is one of the last forest fragments of a low altitude forest in Madagascar.
It's really a really, really tiny piece of forest, completely surrounded by deforested
areas.
So it's really an island.
Vettampona is a kind of island within the island of Madagascar.
And what is amazing about Madagascar is really the diversity that it hosts.
So if you go for the lemurs, there are 12 species of lemurs.
We are speaking of an area just to give an idea, it's a five kilometer per five.
So it's a 25 square kilometer.
I mean, you can walk past it.
So these are 12 species of lemurs.
So we are speaking of the largest mammals of Madagascar, native mammals of Madagascar.
We have 82 species of amphibians, 70 species of reptiles.
And you've been there several times, right?
Back in 2013, you had a bit of a hairy romance, you were doing a reptile inventory.
I think I remember seeing the picture.
Yes, that's true.
So it was a super cool, it was an expedition that I did with quite a lot of people, colleagues
that were here in Sibiu or that they work that are still here in Sibiu.
That is the place where I'm also currently based.
So basically we mounted this expedition to go and catalog the reptile diversity of Vettampona
and we did this expedition over a period of five weeks.
Five weeks in the jungle, camping, sleeping in the jungle, eating in the jungle.
It was very funny because at the time it was, as you said, 2013.
So I had my daughter a couple of years before, so I was feeling a bit bad to live with her
for a long, long period alone with the father.
So I really wanted to try to optimize the time.
Ideally my plan was, not my plan, but the plan of the expedition was to survey each
of what we call campsite in Vettampona for at least five days, but there are seven campsites,
so it would have required us at least eight weeks, consider also the logistic to go there.
I thought it was a bit too much.
So in order to shorten it, I organized this expedition where there would have been many
more people.
And the idea was that we would have a split in two main groups and each group was leading
the surveys in three or four areas of the forest.
And of course, Vettampona is a strict natural reserve.
We can access Vettampona without, I mean, if not for research reasons, so you can't
go there as a tourist.
It's really a fantastic place.
Almost pristine, almost I'm saying because, yeah, just being so small is obvious that
there are quite a lot of, I mean, the influence of pressure from the outside.
So basically, so we spent there this time monitoring.
We organized basically these two teams and each team was there mandatory with guides.
So basically, all the survey Madagascar are managed by Madagascar National Park.
It's like the supervisor and the authority that give also permission to visit the place.
And still they are studying and mandatory you need to be there with some guides.
Also because I mean, although Vettampona is smaller, probably we would not really be able
to find that much.
But basically, so we were there with the guides, both of the organization that is managing
the reserve and also people of Madagascar National Park.
But at one point it happened that our field guide got really sick.
So basically at the time what we did was Vettampona is very hilly and we were setting pitfall
and drift fence to try to maximize our chances to also collect fosoria, reptiles, and the
but then of course, when you set these tools in the field, you need to regularly visit
these infrastructure.
Because of course, if animals, you can't leave animals for longer period in today's pits.
So basically the plan was once we were opening the pitfall, we would be visiting them at
least twice a day, the morning, early in the morning and then after dusk.
And so the point was that I was in the field with these two other colleagues and our guide
that fell really sick.
So it was a tifoid fever.
Yeah, so he was really miserable.
And well, so it was dusk.
We really had to go basically visiting our three lines of drift fence and pitfall to
see and eventually remove the animals that were there.
And although we have been of course, as I said, the place is smaller, but it's often
common in forest in very complex system to kind of lose, you know, the references, the
geographic references.
Anyway, we said, okay, what shall we do?
I mean, the guide cannot really guide us to but we said, okay, but we are in it free.
We know more or less where they are.
It's already a couple of days.
Let's do it alone.
And it was me and my other two European team members and it went miserably bad.
What happened?
You didn't find them?
We didn't find them and we got completely lost.
We did not even reach the first.
And this was after dusk, you said, right?
It was after dusk.
So we were completely lost.
And so we were there.
I mean, totally.
I mean, at the beginning we said, well, but I mean, we can't really be lost.
I mean, we walk not more than a couple of minutes or so.
We can't be far away.
Oh, yes, you can.
But then basically, we're watching with our with our flashlight and so on.
And in reality, we couldn't really recognize anything.
So at a certain point, we say, okay, so we will stop.
We found a stone.
Well, we will stop, of course, once we will have light, it will probably be very easy
to find our campsite.
But in the meantime, we can shout.
And that's what we did.
And you know, when we organize this type of expedition, we also have a cook that come
with us that is basically, you know, really taking care of the campsite and also providing
us some logistics and so on.
So we tried to shout and our super cook, Maneri, finally, I mean, she heard us.
And then and then she came to work to collect us.
But all this story took us like, I don't know, maybe 45 minutes and it was enough to be scared.
That is worse.
And embarrassing of course.
Otherwise, I wouldn't be here saying it is right.
I am totally shameless of the other thing.
What did the cook say?
It was a super it was funny.
He was laughing.
And then it was very funny that the next day he brought us to the stone where we were and
we realized it was really no more than 400 meters seriously.
Wow.
Well, otherwise he couldn't have heard you from the shouting.
Exactly.
It was so much fun.
I mean, it was scary, but at the same time, we were also feeling like, gosh, really, I
mean, we are really so bad.
We didn't walk more than two minutes.
Yeah, more.
But well, I mean, what what you have to do.
I mean, if you lose your bearing, then you're gone.
I mean, I had that once in the deserts in the US.
There were all these bushes that were three meters high.
They're all the same.
And there's just blue sky above you and there's 30 meters.
I lost it.
It was amazing.
But it's actually quite nice.
I think I mean, honestly, I think that beside everything, I mean, it was quite I think it
gave me a nice perception of of really how we are not used anymore to be in such complex
ecosystem.
So on a way, it was really a nice, you know, input that I got.
So that's why.
A bit of a weight off course.
Exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
Oh, yeah.
And that was the scariest moment.
But then you went back.
Yeah.
So you were in the Bittonpona Nature Reserve again in 2019 looking at vegetation.
So this also is super funny because, as you see, I mean, I'm really not ashamed to say
the bad story about me.
That proves my so I sometimes try to pretend that I'm an expert.
But then we don't we don't do the podcast basically.
Nobody will listen to this podcast.
Don't worry.
So now it's very funny.
It's also super funny.
So the best season to go and sample amphibian reptiles in Madagascar is October.
Because this basically corresponded to the beginning of the spring for the Australian
season.
And yeah, so I have I have to say all my expedition of Madagascar up to 2019 were done in this
period.
So my experience was entirely based on Madagascar spring.
Yeah, spring.
Yeah, completely.
But then, as you said, so this expedition was about plant.
And I mean, it's not because I decided to change the subject.
It's simply because, as I said now, so in the tampons is really one of these areas where
I have a really long time, long term commitment.
So it's an area where I keep working since more than I started the first time, the first
expedition I had there was in 2007.
So and then I visited several times.
So it's really a place where I keep going.
And we have excellent connection.
There is an NGO that is managing the service and provide a lot of logistics.
So we have a lot.
This also means that we have lots of data for the research and the Fibonacci reptiles
of the research.
And one of the things that came and that I came across is that there was a survey done
at the beginning.
It was 2009 where basically they mapped the forest coverage in a set of areas of the forest.
And basically my idea was, okay, now we have built the information about amphibian reptiles,
abundances, sorry, species richness, but also abundances because of a long term project
that we have there.
And so I thought it would have been nice to have a snapshot again, 10 years later of how
the forest and the vegetation complexity has changed and then see whether we could basically
find some hints about either amphibian reptiles, species richness, community composition and
that type of things.
So of course for that expedition, I needed to have, I mean, it was really not relevant
to have any, I mean, the idea of this expedition was really not about sampling amphibian reptiles.
It was collecting data on plants, so I worked with the people from botanist from the botanical
garden.
And basically I was there mostly to coordinate, to help basically them understand which were
really my needs in terms of what they wanted to do.
So I was a kind of, I don't know, like a field organizer type of a thing.
So I was not really there.
So the research type of things was not really.
So it also means that I could do this thing whenever, whatever period of the year.
And again, so I always try when I go to field work to also carry with me my daughter.
But of course, I mean, it's always a bit of a trade off because then she's in school,
so I don't want to keep her out of school too much.
You always buy some, yes.
Very cool that you go to Madagascar with you.
Very cool.
And so I said, well, I mean, these field work, since I'm not really targeting amphibian reptiles,
I can do it in summer, like boreal summer, that is winter.
And finally, they in Madagascar in the East Coast and well all around Madagascar, they
call their winter season session, so the dry season.
So I said, well, OK, so let's go in the dry season.
I don't really mind if there are no any, too many.
And I mean, differently from what I was doing generally, they said, well, they call it dry
season.
It would be relatively dry, probably.
You would think.
I was thinking that, but I think that basically I was miserably wrong.
So I've never had so much rain in all my life.
There were leeches dropping on us from, I mean, constantly.
It was pouring rain all the time.
Rain and leeches, yes.
And both me and my daughter, we were terribly bad equipped for water.
So for example, it was the first expedition I had, I didn't brought with me rubber boots.
Oh, it's faxness in the dry season.
Then I mean, I dig a little bit more about the name and apparently it's simply dry season
because in the west of Madagascar is not raining, but in the east doesn't really matter.
So basically my daughter, now if I tell her that we go in the dry season in Madagascar,
he tells me that I'm crazy and she will never come with me again.
Was it that bad?
It was really, I mean.
So how long were you there?
You were camping in the jungle again?
Yes, three weeks.
With the mud up to the knees.
And leeches falling.
Falling on top of us.
Wow.
Yeah, so that it has been quite fun.
And how old was your daughter at that?
So it was 2008.
Yeah, so yeah, she has something to tell to their friends.
Which eight year old has done that?
Another very funny thing about this thing is, so we also brought some type of a treat
for the fieldwork.
It's always nice to bring something back one day or maybe because you finish to sample
this there or so on, you have a small treat.
And so we decided to take, we had a tin of corn and flour and we bake corn bread in the
forest for like celebrating.
And there was even leeches falling into the dough.
So my daughter was, oh no, there is this one as well.
There is another one.
She'd probably be looking forward to that for a week.
And then leeches fall in here.
Oh.
Well.
The bread dough.
She is not going to grow up to be a squeamish woman.
She already experienced that.
But she told me, I will never go again.
Not dry season anymore for me in Madagascar.
Wow.
Oh yeah, leeches falling.
That's fun.
And then you also went to a little bit more of a dry place, which is not in the, in the
gimbal part, you know, all the way in the east of Madagascar, but a bit across the mountains
where there's in the rain shadow, the Anya Community Reserve.
ANJA.
See, I knew I would pronounce it.
This is so small.
I must be able to pronounce this correctly.
Nothing about the Gascar.
Yeah, exactly.
No, yeah, that it was really quite amazing.
So this, the first visit I had in, in ANJA Community Reserve was in 2009.
So we had this incredible, I had this incredible opportunity.
I was at the time postdoc in Brunswick University.
And basically my role was simply for two months, simply being in Madagascar, traveling and
identifying amphibian reptiles.
So it was my best field course, the best field course I could have.
Yeah.
Amazing.
It was really amazing.
And basically that was the day, I mean, it was the end of our trip.
And yeah, on the way back to, so it's not really terribly, I mean, it's really on the
main road of Madagascar is I would say around one day still travel to Tana, the capital
somewhere then we would have left.
And on the way to the south, we spotted these, these reserve, but I mean, it's really something
super, super tiny.
And then he said, well, now we don't have time, but on the way back, let's just stop
there.
And yeah, even just to know the people and see what they, yeah, what they know about
the animals, amphibian reptiles that are there.
So we just stopped for lunch and it was a super funny weekend.
I ordered my omelet of fromage.
And while they were cooking it, we went all to have a tour to these forests, but literally
it's like, yeah, you do all the tour in like half an hour.
Like nothing is nice.
Super small.
Basically is a huge, is a huge border, like a kind of dome.
And then on the hills, on the foothills, there is a patch remaining of the Cedusa forest.
And it was absolutely amazing because that has never happened to me before.
So basically in, yeah, in maybe from five to 10 minutes, I discovered three new species
of reptiles, but you know, these are type of animals that, so it's not that you need
to go back to the, to the lab, you know, to the genetic and say, ah, yeah, this is a bit
different.
So we might describe it.
So they were completely.
So in the field, I saw these animals and I say, yes, this is your species and no doubt
about it.
No microscope required.
No, nothing.
Crafting scale.
Nothing.
It was really.
Well, what was it?
So it was a Parageira Felicite.
So which was also quite nice because back then there used to be only two species of
Parageira described for Madagascar and both of them were coming from the coast.
So we thought it was a genus that.
It's a gecko.
Yes.
Sorry, sorry, sorry.
Yes, I forgot it.
Yeah, sorry.
Yeah, it's a gecko.
And we thought it was only living on the coastal area.
And instead I found it in the, yeah, basically in the total inner side of inner part of the
island.
And so already for that, I mean, with the regionalism that there is in Madagascar, I
mean, having recognized the genus, I immediately know that it was something different.
Yeah, exactly.
And then it was another gecko, a gecko of the genus Felsuma, which are very popular,
very brightly colored.
These new species that I found is not, so it's a part of a clade that is a little bit
more discreet.
It's not the bright green, but still quite a nice one.
And it has a really a very, a really a typical color pattern that I've never seen before
in old pictures and things.
Yeah.
So you knew immediately.
Yeah, exactly.
And then yeah, that was a chameleon.
Oh no, just to chop it off.
Exactly.
And so a bruchesia is a leaf litter convoy.
Yeah, brown.
Yeah.
It's not really the super tiny because among the tiny chameleon in Madagascar, there are
two, well, there are three main groups.
One, well, two are relatively larger for a small chameleon and one are extremely tiny
ones.
So it's not the part of the, it's not really the group of the tiny, tiny one is these,
yeah, small size.
No, no, no, no, we are speaking of three, four centimeters.
So I think later it's like most beef.
So that's amazing.
So after that you were...
Yeah.
I was super happy.
I was so excited.
And I said, this is the best thing that could happen to me.
It's really amazing.
During lunch.
During lunch, amazing.
And on the main street of Madagascar, for me, this is what is completely mind blowing
about the place that sometimes you really just need an eye in a place.
I mean, it's not really about accessibility or nothing.
Madagascar is still really a bit of investigation and also field investigation because yeah,
I mean, probably, although it wasn't the main route, nobody had really...
It's also so tiny that maybe, well, it was, yeah, they just didn't happen.
No, no.
But it has to be somebody like you who actually recognized the animals in order to know that
it's a new thing.
So it was really cool.
I think it's my best moment in terms of taxonomic.
Well, I mean, it's probably because we eat...
Species of reptiles.
I mean, discovering three species of flies or something is a different story, but three
species of reptiles during lunch.
Yeah.
That's nice though.
Plus, we had two more.
Oh.
Yes.
So there was also another gecko, a ground gecko, which, yeah, I mean, it looked a little
bit crazy.
And I said, well, there is an opportunity that also this one is a new thing, but I knew
it belonged to a group where a systematic revision was badly needed at the time.
And it's actually something that we managed to do just a couple of years ago.
And so in reality, the new species are five because those two geckos...
Well, what I thought it was one gecko, one ground gecko, in reality were two different
things and both of them were new again.
So you described all these species that you discovered during your little lunch egg.
And that's, mind your whatever, 150, 200 published work.
The last one is in publication now.
Okay.
Yes.
But it will be soon.
Yeah.
It's really...
Wow.
That is...
Okay.
You beat a lot of people.
I think it's going to be a long time for somebody to do that.
So are you going back to Madagascar anytime soon?
Yes, I hope so.
I still do not really know when because so unfortunately with all this COVID crack, and
some Madagascar has been closed for quite a lot of time.
So it only opened the border again in November of 2021.
And I had a lot of students basically that had to pause their work and their field work
during that.
So I'm trying basically to...
I mean, I'm trying to, how can I say, to prioritize their work, right?
Because yeah, I mean, they are obviously linked to project that need to be to finish and so
on.
I never know.
So...
That's all the responsibility you have.
You cannot carry yourself.
I mean, of course I could.
The point is that is, I mean, the old permitting issues in Madagascar is quite complex, which
is on one side is good on the other.
Because it means that they take it seriously, obviously.
So there is a lot of supervision and lots of investment in this from the side of authorities
and controls.
And so it means they in a way are aware of the very, very protective of their biodiversity,
which is great.
But then, I mean, the whole process requires quite a lot of time and investment, money
investment, time investment, logistic investment.
And for me, it's completely impossible to have like more than two weeks additional of
people, I can't understand in terms of time, and at the moment, as I said, I had three
PhD students that really had to be there for their PhD.
So I tried to plus a postdoc and they had to be the one going there first to get there.
So I help a lot in all this logistic part.
But so I don't know.
I hope if everything goes fine, I will be back in 2004, 2024.
Yeah, 2024.
Okay.
So not this year, but after that, you're definitely going back and maybe you'll be able to convince
your daughter to join you.
Actually, no, actually, she loves him.
Nobody loves Robbie Gouwstar as much as you do, Angelica.
And if people want to follow your research, where do they find your stuff?
I mean, ResearchGate is the place where I really try to put all my research out.
Yes.
And ResearchGate, and they will find everything.
I think it's nice that it's also all PDFs available.
If they're not directly able for download, then you just send me a message and I will
send them.
It's really the only place where I try to maintain.
And do you have like social media or something like that?
I have quite a bad with this.
I think so.
Thanks a lot for being on the podcast.
Thank you.
As soon as I started this, I thought you have to be on the top of the list because I knew
there were some good stories in there.
Excellent.
It was really, really a pleasure for me to have this chat with you.
And yeah, we follow the podcast as well because I'm very curious to hear all the other stories.
All right.
Thanks a lot.
Yeah.
Thank you.
concerned.