Hey there, I'm Tals Lotnitsky from Ignite IT Consulting.
You know me from the Braving Business podcast, but when I'm not behind the mic, I'm helping
tech startups and established companies ignite their full potential.
I also help entrepreneurs and businesses in distress reset for success.
With over three decades of entrepreneurial success, I bring hands-on experience to drive
growth, navigate turnarounds, raise capital, and lead to innovation.
Whether it's executive coaching or strategic transformation, I'm here to turn your business
challenges into success stories.
Visit igniteitconsulting.com and let's spark that change together.
That's igniteitconsulting.com.
Your journey to business brilliance starts now.
One last quick thing.
If you enjoyed this episode, please stay on after the show to learn more about the Braving
Business podcast and other great episodes for you to discover.
And now let's get the show started.
Well hello there.
Hello there, Mr. Orange.
Why are you so orange today?
Because I'm trying to be.
Not your face, just your shirt.
Your hat's got a little orange.
You've got the orange and the logo.
I'm trying, I'm trying to be on brand, man.
That's all.
I'm just represent.
Okay.
So I meant to ask you, how was Vegas?
We, you know, PJ and I just, Adam's our guest today.
We'll talk about it, talk to him and about him in a second.
But PJ was just a host at a, as on behalf of the Braving Business podcast at a major
event in Vegas.
It was, it was.
Millions of viewers, thousands of guests.
It was very cool.
It was very, very cool.
I don't think I'm a star.
So that unfortunately didn't happen, but it was very cool.
Got to meet a bunch of new entrepreneurs, people that have some very interesting and
very cool inventions and whatnot.
And I got to judge some people to find out if they can get to the final stage to present
as they did in front of Damon John from Shark Tank and a bunch of other celebrity people.
And it was, it was, it was really kind of fun.
I passed out a bunch of hats.
People had a bunch of swag.
It was good.
Nice.
It was hot.
You know, it's more exciting than my weekend.
I went to, I went to a two year olds and an eight year old, nine year old actually.
So my, my daughter, my granddaughters turned nine and two this weekend and my daughter
threw a party, daughter and her husband threw a party.
And so that was my weekend.
It was a hell of a lot less exciting than yours.
How about you, Adam?
How's your weekend?
Anything exciting?
My weekend was awesome.
Did a fundraiser golf voting on Saturday with friends I haven't seen for over about 20 years.
And yesterday we had parents and in-laws over for dinner.
So nice and low key, but good.
Over 20 years.
How were you at six years old when you made these friends or something?
Nice, nice try.
Well, yeah, they were, they were seniors when I was freshmen.
So the 20 year number I'm actually pretty close on.
Wow.
Yeah.
Well, PJ, let's, I'm sorry.
I didn't mean to go ahead.
No, I was just going to say it's, it's every time I see you, it's hard to imagine you with
grandkids, especially a nine year old.
And, and even though it might not have been as exciting as Vegas can be, I'm sure for
those little girls, they had the best time of their life.
Cause you were there.
So, well, I mainly cause my, you know, they're a grand, my ex wife was there and she's the
best grandmother in the world and she bought much cooler gifts than I did.
But Hey, that's okay.
There's always next year, buddy.
There is indeed.
So let's, let's, let's, let's Adam, right?
Yeah.
All right.
Well, our guest today folks is Adam Kroner, an award winning entrepreneur and army veteran.
Thank you for your service, sir, and co-founder of Carbless, the fastest growing privately
owned low carb beverage company in the U S so I'm taking it's not beer.
Adam launched SN food and beverage LLC in 2018, along with his wife, Amanda, naming
the company in honor of a very close friend who tragically passed away in an accident
under his leadership.
Carbless has sold millions of cases in 11 States and online worldwide.
Earlier this year, Carbless was awarded the number one fastest growing company by ink
regionals Midwest.
Adam's journey has been marked by a perseverance, overcoming numerous challenges to scale Carbless
from a small family owned business to a rapidly growing national brand.
His story will sound familiar to anyone who listens to this podcast and frankly to anyone
who's ever attempted to build something substantial.
It required having a vision, overcoming initial skepticism and market resistance, but also
refusing to quit.
Excuse me, I'm going to get this out of here one of these times.
Beyond that business, Adam is committed to balancing family life and staying true to
his values.
And as I mentioned, Adam is a veteran of the U S army who is a staunch advocate for veterans
and troubled youth, dedicating himself to bridging gaps and creating new opportunities
for those in need.
Adam's passions extend beyond his business success.
He told us in pre interview that his goal was to show others that resilience, service
and the ability to create opportunities from setbacks are the keys to lasting growth in
business and in life.
Adam, thank you so much for joining us on the braving business podcast.
Thanks for having me guys.
Appreciate it.
It's good to have you here, Adam.
And you know, actually a quick question, because actually I'm noticing we had two names for
your wife and I'm sure maybe she has both names, but is it Amanda or is it Kaylee?
Because I had both.
Oh, Amanda is my wife and Kaylee is my oldest daughter.
Got it.
All right.
Well, that makes a lot more sense.
I think, I think in my notes, I had that mixed up.
I just want to make sure that PJ didn't, didn't share with your wife.
They had a second wife by different name other than the one that she recognized herself by
that would have made this a much more interesting episode of the braving business podcast than
any we've ever had.
But I'm glad to hear that is the case.
Adam, thanks for, thanks for joining us.
You had a really interesting journey.
A lot of the guests we have on likewise have interesting journeys, but yours started very,
very differently.
You were, you were a dad, very, very young.
You were a soldier.
Uh, and that was long before you started this business, which you've been running just for
about six years, six, seven years.
So relatively young business.
Tell us about your early day.
What kind of a person were you and you know, what shifted for you to change the trajectory
of your life?
Oh, that's a lot of things.
Um, early days, like as a kid, um, I would, I would say I was the person I intentionally
outcast myself because I didn't want to be like everybody else.
Um, always had kind of entrepreneurial desires, but, um, I, I saw people close to me get made
fun of.
So as I grew older, I started making fun of the people who made fun of everybody else.
Um, realized that wasn't great either.
But um, I mean, I think that the few things that kind of changed me was having my daughter.
Um, so in April of my junior year, I decided to go split up, uh, which means I, I did training
my junior year to go into the army and then came back, did senior year and then senior
year had my daughter.
Uh, I was, uh, went to finish my training after senior year.
And then about 10 months after that was, uh, sent to Iraq for a year.
Um, and so I was, for lack of better words, a complete piece of shit, uh, prior to the
age of 17, uh, got into a lot of things that probably should have ended my life prematurely.
Um, and I mean, the, the catalyst of having the kid and then, you know, being sent overseas
at 19 years old and having to figure yourself out real quick, uh, those two compounding
things changed my trajectory, uh, quite a bit.
And I would say then further refined by focusing on leadership and, and self development.
Um, I kind of viewed leadership as yelling at first and then moved into, uh, I read the
book, how to win friends and influence people and found out that yelling gets me a win for
about, uh, 20 minutes and, and, you know, really learning leadership can get you a win
for 20 years.
Very cool.
It's interesting.
You learned that at that age, cause I, uh, you know, I also learned that it took me a
very long time to get to a place where I realized that true leadership was not about being the
loudest and the most aggressive, but about the most inspiring, uh, and the most accessible.
And that's, uh, that's some, that's a lesson that a lot of entrepreneurs never learned.
So I hope that people who listen to this podcast, particularly people that have listened to
it over and over again, uh, are absorbing that lesson, um, because it is perhaps what
there is a hand, there are a handful of lessons that are consistently, uh, coming out of most
of our episodes.
And I think that's one of them, uh, leading from your best self as opposed to leading
from your jerk self is a, is a, is a darn good way to be more successful in business
and in life.
So thanks for calling it out thoroughly in the episode.
I appreciate that.
Oh, that's awesome.
So, um, so let me ask you a question then.
So you started Carbless with your wife, Amanda, what was the, the initial spark that made
you believe that you could come on top in such a competitive market?
I would say the weird thing is, um, I always tell people that in order to do this, it obviously
takes a little bit of ego and arrogance, uh, to think that you can even compete.
Um, but coming out on top really wasn't the beginning.
It's always been, I'm a firm believer that, uh, you know, if, if, if I told you to eat
an elephant, uh, you wouldn't try to put that thing down in a gulp, you'd figure out how
to eat it bite by bite.
And so it really started as like, we should put this in a can.
And then, so how do we do that?
Well, we need a big formula and we need a plan.
And then once it's on the shelf, let's try to get more skews on the shelf.
Let's try to get in more stores.
Let's try to increase velocity.
So the, I would say the cool part is how quickly we've come out on top against, you know, people
that have been business a hundred, 150 years.
Um, but it was obviously the belief had to be there, but it was more about really just
getting a product that we thought deserved to be in the market for the consumer.
That was, that's, that's what it started as.
Yeah, and it's, and I'd love to know how you fit an elephant in a can.
That's amazing.
Um, but let's talk about, I mean, I want to jump on what you just said, because I know
that, you know, part of what made Carbless successful is that it was informed by your
own lifestyle and you had a sense that there was a gap there in the marketplace that you
knew resonated with you and you believe it resonated with other people.
So I have a two-part question.
First, how important is it?
Do you think for entrepreneurs to solve problems that resonate personally for them that it's
not just a business opportunity, but hopefully a passion.
And second, how did you identify this market gap?
Um, let me answer those in reverse, please.
So how, how did we identify it?
So we were doing keto, low carb, low sugar.
I was drinking vodka, water, lemon, lime, super boring.
Seltzer's came out in 2018, tried them and then thought they were horrible, but tried
them because they were low carb, low sugar.
In summary, I didn't like them because I thought there were a ton of carbonation, not much
flavor, but based on the can, I thought they'd be very flavorful.
So I started making a vodka lemonade that had no carbs and sugar.
And when we look at why did we really find a gap is I thought it was just me.
Then everybody loved it.
I bought $500 worth of low carb, low sugar stuff and found out that they all tasted the
same ton of carbonation, really no flavor.
And they're super popular.
So when I started asking people, are you, why are you drinking them?
And the answer they would give me is it's low carb, it's low sugar, slow calorie.
Imagine being a chef and being told that's why somebody's eating your food.
Like you'd be pissed.
And so I would follow up with like, do you like the taste?
And now this is at the boom of the shelters and everyone was like, nah, it's okay.
So they were only drinking it because of the nutrition panel.
Now imagine I could give you a vodka lemonade or a vodka cranberry that has that nutrition
panel and the flavor of a vodka cranberry.
And people were like, yeah, I would much rather drink that.
So the gap was really thinking we were just fitting something that we liked.
And then I guess validating by about 300 questions, I didn't go to business school.
I know for a fact that asking 300 people and not sampling them is a horrible go to market
strategy, but that's what happened.
As far as do they need to resonate personally?
I absolutely think so because to this day, I still spend probably 50% of my time going
into the market and selling to bars and restaurants and introducing it to consumers.
And that passion bleeds through the entire team because I'm just a firm believer that
like I've probably heard a thousand times, oh my God, this is what I thought they should
have been, the seltzers, right?
And to continue to get such positive feedback like compounds on what I'm doing.
So I think that passion helps ring through when somebody is solving either their problem
or maybe something that's sentimental enough for them that it was a family member or whatever,
depending on the market.
Yeah.
And Tal and I have been lucky enough to talk to a bunch of very innovative market movers
in their industries.
And I think that aligning personal beliefs with, you mentioned that you got to have a
little bit of ego.
I think it's a little bit of just really being confident in what you're bringing to the market.
And it sounds like you've done your research, you've gone out and you've taken a look at
what's out there in the market and how your flavor profile competes against others.
But really at the base of it, what we hear a lot of are people who just sit there and
see an opportunity and they're like, yeah, I can do that better or I could do that.
And I think that's a great mentality to have when launching a product because you already
have that instilled confidence to step forward.
And obviously it's worked out well for you.
And let me piggyback on that because I think PJ, you're teasing out something really, really
valuable and I really appreciate, Adam, that you're not, it's very clear how authentic
you are because you're not talking about, oh, our market research was second to none.
We statistically, you are talking in a very candid way about the fact that you talked
to 300 people in a non-scientific survey and you got the best information you could and
then you believed in something and you acted on it.
And I think a lot of people that listen to this podcast are going to be, if they're starting
a business or they're thinking about starting a business, they're also going to need to
lean into gut and whatever available market research they can do.
I encourage people to do some market research, try to come out of your own immediate circle
of friends and family because they might tell you what they think you want to hear.
But you don't have to have scientific market research to establish a good sense of whether
what you're talking about has a chance.
And I think, sure, if you can afford to go out there and I've had businesses where I
was fortunate enough to raise some capital and we did market research and spent tens
of thousands of dollars, it didn't guarantee us success, by the way.
In fact, the business where I spent the most amount of money on market research was one
of the few businesses I've run that failed.
So it's really interesting to me that you share that and I think it's super helpful
that you did, so thanks.
It's a fine line, isn't it, Tom?
And Adam, I guess both of you can answer this, but it's kind of a fine line because you want
to be prepared as much as you can for what you're about to launch, but then there's also
analysis paralysis.
And you can look at spreadsheets and market data all the week long, but it's not going
to get you any kind of product in your customer's hand.
So it is a fine line and I think it's great that entrepreneurs are willing to cross it.
Yeah, I think an interesting piece that I think about often is data is only as good
as the questions that are being asked, which is true of anything.
And so when you think about market, if you were to say, Adam, I'd love to have Carbless
as it is, but I want it to be organic.
I want it to be made with unicorn tears and I want it to be fully sustainable and every
drop nothing touched the rainforest, you get where I'm going, right?
And so I'm sure if you read the data, it would tell you that the consumer wants that by far
and wide.
They would love that.
And then the next step is, well, right now you get a four pack for 10.99, but if we did
all those things, the four pack would be 49.99.
And really correlating what does the consumer think they want versus what are they willing
to pay for?
And that correlation is a very, very hard cross section.
I think when you're starting a business, because you think you have a lot of those things figured
out, but truth is only once it's on the shelf and does a turn.
And that's a pretty hard thing to bet on.
So you had mentioned that there's an importance to staying true to your values, which I think
both Tal and I agree with wholeheartedly.
And people talk a lot about their values, but they don't always live them, unfortunately.
Can you talk about how you've been able to maintain your integrity and purpose, especially
as this little baby dream of yours has continued to scale and grow?
Yeah.
So I think part of that goes back to many, many years ago when I was working at the cheese
factory and started getting promoted.
I wanted to get promoted because I'd make more money.
And I hit a breaking point where I left where I was at and I came back a year later and
they created a job for me.
And it was in a continuous improvement role.
And I immediately got to see how my work got to positively impact a bunch of people.
And then I went into a leadership role within that plant and I got to see like, now as I
get escalated throughout the business, I get to impact more people positively as long as
I'm doing good work.
And that shift, even before I had my own business, went away from money.
And so now from, I would say, the core of the business, obviously the financials have
to be there otherwise, if the business goes under, none of it matters.
But we're always leading from a place of how do we be a great supplier?
How do we be a great employer?
How do I make somebody feel emotional about their employment, which happens often and
we're super thankful for?
How do I make my distributors more money?
How do I make my retailers more money?
Because at the end of the day, that's why business exists.
If I can do that and be a good human and be part of the community, I'm a firm believer
it's selfish because that makes my business grow, but I'm a firm believer it makes it
really, really hard to take us down.
Yeah.
And it resonates with me and I think it was a great follow up question, PJ, in light of
where Adam had just taken us, which is that oftentimes when you come into the marketplace,
especially if you do some market research, you may find, as Adam said, the consumer is
looking for completely unrealistic things and it's very hard as an entrepreneur to
maybe tell the marketplace that you're asking for why, I'm going to give you maybe why light
or some version of why that is frankly achievable and affordable.
And it could feel like maybe you're not holding true to your values, but the key really is
to make sure that you understand what your real values are or what are your core values.
So Adam, I don't know where you stand on environmentalism and it's fine if that's a major passion of
yours.
If it isn't, that's also okay.
But bottom line is you have certain passions, right?
There are certain things that animate you more than others.
I feel like I've heard some of what they are, but if you could put words to that, what would
be the top two or three values that really animate you both as an entrepreneur and as
a human being?
I think they're all pretty much the same, to be honest.
I've learned over years that for a long, long time, I thought money was the thing I wanted.
And I definitely associate with all these things that talk about it's not money, it's
freedom.
I wake up every day and I fucking love my life.
I think there's a lot of people who say that who don't actually believe it, who they're
trying to get there.
And I would say ultimately from passion, integrity, values, my goal is to be able to create that
for anybody else.
And when you look at one of the things I've learned for myself is the people that I help,
I used to help everybody to the detriment of myself.
And so now I've had to put some precursors in of helping people who have at least the
ability to start making immediate change.
And it's all built on the fact that I just from the core of me love my life.
And I don't believe as many people that would say that outwardly actually do.
And from a mindset, personal growth, financial growth, whatever, I'm here to help them get
there.
I can't even put words to what it means to me.
So let me ask you, first of all, congratulations, that's amazing.
And I agree with you that most people probably live their lives and have moments that they
love, but they don't necessarily love their lives or love what they do for a living.
So I think it's a great, it's a beautiful thing.
And one of the reasons I think entrepreneurialism is so important, it creates such opportunity
because it gives you the opportunity to do and live the things you care to live and experience
things that perhaps aren't available to people who are working nine to fives and working
for other people.
So do you think, share what feels appropriate, but what is it about your life that you love
so much?
I mean, and what perhaps what lessons are there do you think for audience something that they
could take?
Not just the fact that do something you love.
I think people hear that sometimes you're not in a position necessarily act on that.
What else?
What is it?
What is it that makes your life a life that you love living?
I will back up and say that a lot of it's been mindset training on my personal part.
And so that the mindset training was probably the catalyst and now I get to build.
I do want to go back and you had mentioned, you know, sometimes you don't have the ability
to cause you're working for other people.
I had a conversation with my dad many years ago that made me realize that not everybody
wants to be an entrepreneur and everybody wants to be the supervisor.
And so part of that, with that being my goal is I'm, I have to accept the fact that I love
the entrepreneur, the freedom, but I need to have people working for me.
And that is, you know, that's an employee.
So how do I integrate that freedom and happiness for my team to try to help get the mindset
there?
And it sounds really shitty, but if you've ever worked in corporate, you'll know exactly
what I'm saying.
Part of the way that we instill that is we, we do that by treating people like adults.
And that sounds so damn trivial, but give you an example.
You've had three, you have three weeks of vacation.
It's November and you need two days off because either a you're going bonkers, your kid's
sick.
I really don't care how many days you already took off.
If you're getting your stuff done, you need a day off.
You take it because that's, that's treating another person like a decent human being and
not saying no, because some spreadsheet says you've already had enough.
I might've derailed on that question a little bit, sir.
No, I think that's, that's an, that's an amazing, I actually think a lot of what I'm hearing,
you know, from you and I'll PJs it's PJs questions.
I'm going to defer in a second, but, but, you know, I love that you touch on self-awareness.
I think that that's, that's something I talk about often on this podcast.
I think what separates me at this point in my life from me 20 years ago is not my level
of success.
It's my level of self-awareness.
And I think that that's a great, great thing for you.
And you're still a man in your thirties for you to have reached that level this early.
That's uncommon.
He looks like a man in his twenties.
What I wanted to say though is, is that I call myself that all the time.
One of the things that I think is, is really interesting is, you know, tell you, you really
did in both of you obviously touched on self-awareness, but I think the, the word that Adam used that
really got me was the mindset, right?
Like how do you, if you wouldn't mind, I would love to dig a little bit into that about how
you trained yourself.
I know you have a military background, which I'm sure has attenuated that a little bit,
but how, how does, how does an entrepreneur get the right mindset to tackle the things
that you know are coming?
You don't know what they are, but you know, things are coming.
How did, how did you do it and what would you advise for others?
Oh, this is actually one of my favorite exercises to do with people.
I won't do the exercise to you, but I learned this in 2017 and this exercise, as soon as
I started incorporating it into everything just catapulted.
So my, we shared earlier, my business was named after a friend of mine that passed.
Part of that is I always had these ideas, his death in 2016 really like, can you, you
know, take your own medicine type thing, Adam?
But it all boils down to this.
There was an exercise done with Dale Carnegie that was the first principle is don't criticize,
condemn or complain and set another way to understand.
So rather than chastising a business, a person for what they're doing, be generally genuinely
curious as to why are they doing that?
Right.
And it comes from a completely different place when you have a conversation with employee,
whatever.
So the premise was we did this exercise where write down three things you want to complain
about.
And the three things I did was this first exercise was Wisconsin weather because it
sucks in the winter.
I mean, you're from Chicago PJ, you get it.
And then there's, I had a car that had a supercharger that was under warranty.
So I didn't get to drive my car.
That was one of the things I complained about.
And I think the third one was my, my now wife and I put in an offer on a house and it, we
didn't get it.
So then the next part of that exercise is first you stand up and you say to everybody
what your three things you want to complain about.
Then you sit down, then you write down at the bottom and it really doesn't matter.
And then we all stand up and I'd say to you, you know, the weather in Wisconsin sucks and
it really doesn't matter.
And so after that, everybody sits down and the guy says, you know, how many of you had
things that matter?
And you got about probably 70% of the people raise their hands.
I didn't, like I said, whether supercharger or whatever, but you know, we had people that
my grandma's about to die.
We put my dog down yesterday.
That matters.
Right.
And so when you start to frame now, my buddy passed away.
If that was on my list that I wanted to complain about that matters.
Right.
That's, that's a big deal.
It doesn't matter who you are.
The reframing of the next piece is what has helped me tremendously.
There are only two things you can ever do.
And if you can truly mentally put it in these two buckets, you will win.
Number one, physically change the situation.
What if I said, ah, my job really sucks.
Well, get a new fucking job.
Right.
And I'll walk you through a really fun one that we did because I think it it'll hit home
for a lot of people.
Now I'll use my friend passing away.
He died.
I am not God.
I'm not a doctor.
I can't bring him back to life.
Right.
So option one is clearly off the table.
The other option, change your perception towards the situation.
So do I want to go down the path of victim mentality and oh my God, he's dead because
he wanted to ride a motorcycle with Adam and he died on a motorcycle.
He wasn't wearing a helmet.
And you know, I tried telling him to wear a helmet and go down this guilt path.
Where does that lead me in a pretty crappy spot?
Instead he's gone.
I can't change that.
Why don't I just focus on how awesome of a fucking human being he was?
Excuse my French.
We probably should have.
I have a sailor mouth.
Let's focus on that.
Let's focus on when he walked into a room, how he lit people up, how did he positively
impact my life?
Why is my life better?
How do I take those things and focus on how to make other people's lives better?
Part of the reason his name, we used his initials to name the business was it's on the back
of every can.
So whether anybody knows the story, I'm like mentally and emotionally spreading, call it
his love, his joy throughout the nation by each individual person who picks it up.
That means nothing to most people, but it's a way that I can positively look at his life.
I'm going to go back now and talk about the thing I think most people fail to do.
This is how succinct and easy it is.
We're doing a training for third shifters and my stepdad at the time was a third shift
supervisor.
So I always like to say he was the queen of complaining that he didn't get any sleep because
their shift was 10 p.m. to 6 a.m.
So in his group, 90% of people, one of the problems they had was sleep.
So I'm the director over the area and I'm way in the back of the room and I'm going
through this with every single shift and this is the last shift and the guy goes, okay,
who had something that matters?
90% of these people raise their hand.
One person goes, yep, I work third shift.
I don't get enough sleep.
Everybody now chimes in, right?
We've got the echo chamber.
We probably didn't think we wanted.
And so the guy running it goes, huh, why don't you get a different job?
And then somebody chimes in and they go, well, or no, first it started with, now I messed
it up, but he goes, why don't you go to a different shift?
And it was, well, I can't go to first shift because there's a really long waiting list
and I don't want to go to second shift because then I would never see my family.
And so he's like, oh, so sleep doesn't really matter.
Your family matters, right?
And so let's take that a step further.
So if you can't go to second shift, you don't want to go to second shift.
You can't go to first shift.
Why don't you just get a different job, right?
And then everybody starts chiming in.
Well, I wouldn't make enough money because this place pays really well.
So now what I hear you telling me is you wanted to complain about working third shift and
not getting sleep.
You're in control of where you work.
You're in control of the shifts in one third of it.
So what I hear you telling me is sleep really doesn't matter.
Your family matters and your pay matters.
And that little exercise with that group because working in a manufacturing environment of
a thousand people, and mind you, everybody's staring at me going, oh my God, how is he
going to reply?
And I'm like, answer them.
If you're going to sit here and gripe about not sleeping, you have options.
And it really helped diminish every complaint I had when you start walking through what
am I not doing about it that I could be.
Man, that was a bit of a master class.
I want to thank you for it.
And I want to share a little something that hangs over my desk.
And I don't know how well you guys will be able to see it.
It says noteworthy CEOs are calm, resilient, inspiring, persistent, logical, agile, and
passionate.
But the reality is those are just letters to remind me of something.
They don't actually mean anything.
What they stand for is N is for nagging, which these are the things winners avoid.
Winners don't nag, winners don't criticize, winners don't argue, winners don't complain,
winners don't seek reassurance, winners don't interrogate, winners don't talk about problems
too much, winners avoid long explanations, winner don't apologize too much, and winners
don't promise things that they cannot guarantee.
And underneath it, it says instead of complaining, learn to say what I do like.
Instead of talking about problems, change how I respond and treat the situation.
Have a plan for the things I fear.
Don't ask for things.
Act and inspire.
And what I just heard you say is a version of that.
And ultimately, I learned this the hard way because I, like most people, didn't really
realize how much complaining we do.
And the impact it has on our environment.
Now that could be true in your relationship.
So if you come home from work and you're talking about your asshole boss or this person who
did that or the person that cut you off, it's exhausting.
All you're going to do is exhaust people by complaining.
My rule of complaining is pretty straightforward.
If you're going to complain about something, you have two options.
Do something about it or explain why it doesn't matter.
And it sounds an awful lot like what you just said, Adam.
And I think that's a great words to live by.
So it's amazing how often in this podcast I run into people who are so aware of how
to be.
And I don't think it's a coincidence that Adam is successful hearing you speak.
Their success is a product of preparation and mindset and successful people, preparation,
mindset.
And then there's one more thing which we're going to talk about next, which is starting
a business, launching it, becoming successful is not a straight shot to success.
There are often moments of struggle and failure.
And I'd love for you to talk about that.
What were some really big obstacles you encountered in the early days of your business?
Was there a moment where you thought, shit, this might not work?
And how do you talk yourself through that?
Yeah, I'm just making notes.
Yeah, that's fine.
Adams, by the way, just for those of you that are not watching on YouTube, what I'm noticing
Adam do, which is a very, very good idea in general, when you're talking to people, particularly
important business calls, this isn't one of them, but Adam's doing it, which is very respectful.
He writes down our questions.
He wants to make sure that he addresses our questions.
And that's a really, really good habit.
For those of you listening, we're starting businesses or early in your careers.
It's a fabulous idea to make sure that you remember what's being asked of you.
Well, also, he might be writing down things that he wants to talk about.
So just keeping organized like that is...
I was actually noticing that I wanted to say something about it too, is that it is, again,
a masterclass in how you can help yourself be present in times when your presence is
needed.
So you're in this conversation, you are dropping knowledge bombs like not many people have
on this show.
And I think that it's just an example of how you are going about it and how other people
can be prepared.
So kudos to you, sir.
So please, I'm sorry, go ahead and answer Tom's question.
Yeah, well, thank you for the kind words.
And it is most definitely a reminder.
Part of it helps me also frame it up and start thinking through when I write it.
So struggles, the whole you got to spend money to make money didn't really hit home until
I started this business.
Had a failed business in 2014.
But this was unlike any other because I did an ROI of how much do I need to sell to make
my money back.
But then you need to put in a PO and you need to dump more money in and it can be a scary
cycle that gets out of control.
So the two struggles were literally that, well, in the first year, we got hit in the
head about three times.
So I was in the manufacturing world.
I assumed everybody operated at the level that we did.
I worked for a billion plus company and then a little smaller one.
But our first manufacturer, after about three months of being on the shelf, 75% of our product
was leaking.
I don't remember the number of leaking, but we had to pay back 75% of our revenue.
So if you can take a guess at 18% to 20% gross margin right out of the gate and then paying
back 75% of my revenue, holy crap, are we upside down?
And it was because everything was leaking.
That guy to this day still says it was the liquid in our can.
We've made almost 100 million of them since and no more problems.
So I think we know where the problem lied there.
Went to another manufacturer in Idaho.
Didn't make any sense.
We were making about $10 gross profit at the time.
It actually took me $10 to get it back to Wisconsin.
So as soon as it got here, I was losing money.
And so we put our PO in in March of 2020, really fun year for everybody.
And then that gets made.
And then it was 30 days is what they said we had for lead time.
So towards the end of May, I put in a PO to be made at the end of June.
So we'd have it for July.
Well, they had bought a machine from China.
There was a $10 gasket when you switch from standard can to sleek can that had broken
in their last change over.
That $10 gasket took them four months to get.
So we had zero revenue for this money bleeding machine from basically July until October.
And then we were going to launch a cranberry in May.
We switched all the marketing to be a Thanksgiving focused, launched our cranberry in November.
And at the same time, I did all the design.
So I designed the case upside down, which was more just a visual foo pa.
But I mean, in the first year, we went from paying back 75% of our revenue, again, any
bit of financial sense.
And you'll know that that's a recipe for disaster.
Then no revenue for four months after that.
Well, a few months later.
And then we got an angel investor about four months later.
And that man, similar to my notes earlier about integrity and stuff, but I hope to be
who that man was for us for as many people in the future, because he's just been amazing
human being that helped us scale our business.
And up until then, I worked full time just to fund the losses of the business outside
of what we put in.
That was really the catalyst to get the company moving.
We launched on store shelves in 2019.
I didn't quit my job until May of 2021.
We started hiring that same day.
And we've been on a trajectory ever since, because I've been able to focus on it.
So in those moments of struggle, and it sounds like it wasn't a minute, it was there was
some significant amount of time.
How close were you to giving up?
I mean, was quitting a consideration?
Thank you wrote that down, didn't answer the question.
The interesting piece is the hardest part was mentally was right before we launched.
There's something called a statement of composition to get approved.
And the guy who was helping us said it would take one month and it took like five months.
And I was starting to go, you know, the signs of the world are saying, Adam, don't don't
do this.
Don't do this.
But I would say between my wife and I, who I have a great deal of trust and would have
this conversation, neither of us, it was it honestly never crossed our mind, which I think
sounds very strange, but it's always been what's the methodical biting the elephant
one piece at a time?
What's the methodical next step to get through this?
It quitting the label thing was the biggest mental challenge and some of the financial
ones with, you know, leakers and stuff.
But I mean, there never been a moment of saying we're going to quit as soon as we said we're
going to put this in a can.
It's just been growing and expanding on that ever since.
That's awesome.
I mean, there really isn't because I think a lot of people would have a little moment
of pause, right?
To be like, holy crap, are we doing the right thing?
Are we crazy or whatnot?
But kudos to you and Amanda, because a lot of people, especially when there's two people
who are side by side in it, you know, as as awesome as that is from a partnership standpoint
to build something together, it also allows two different opinions to come in.
And if one of the opinions is like, we got to cut bait, like this is just this is not
working.
Obviously, that can that can be the demise of a business.
You guys stuck together through it.
And you know, kudos to both of you for that.
That's amazing.
One of the one of the questions makes me think of PJ makes me think of the polite.
So we recently we had we had an episode with with, you know, some some remarkable people,
the successful television couple beyond beyond some of some of the some of the most successful
television of the last night.
I apologize.
I don't remember the name of their show.
I've thought my head I should.
But they also spoke about, you know, how they helped each other through through through
moments of challenge, their perspective personalities really helped them.
Persevere and likewise, they didn't really think about quitting.
And that's and I don't find that you said that might sound strange.
It actually doesn't.
It sounds to me very consistent with what we hear over and over again from guests on
the show, which is that quitting is not an option.
It doesn't mean you don't pivot.
You don't change.
You don't adjust.
You don't learn.
That's the very opposite.
Actually, successful people are constantly evaluating, constantly rethinking, constantly
strategizing, but they don't quit.
That's really it.
And generally speaking, everybody has the same experience.
Those who don't succeed don't succeed because they quit.
I mean, that's that's that's been my experience.
And I think that that's a lot of what I'm hearing from you here.
Let's you know, let's you know, we've talked about resilience and I, you know, I think
that that's that's important.
But you know, another component of entrepreneurship that gets attention and appropriately so is
the long hours and the sacrifices you get to work with your wife.
So maybe that's that gives you the opportunity to, you know, blend business and pleasure
a little bit.
But talk to me about prioritizing time between growing your business, maintaining your health.
You seem like you're a fit guy, nurturing your personal life.
What is how are you finding balance there?
Well, start off with just want to kind of frame a few things.
First off, I'm not a fit guy.
That's why I don't do the big horizontal body picture.
We just do the shoulders up.
Very nice shoulders then that's the only thing I like about fitness is fitness, carbless
in my mouth.
You know what I'm saying?
So as far as working with my wife, so she actually is a CFO for a local car dealership.
She is my co-founder strategically.
She's part of the conversation.
We keep her in the loop.
She does the things that she really loves, which is event planning for our team, you
know, Christmas party, stuff like that.
So part of what's helped is I have this level balance, but she's not in the business because
she's asked.
She's able to ask me.
I'm just a firm believer in really those.
I'll call them.
I think a lot of people think of them as dumb questions, but they always like spur your
thought in a different way or they throw you off enough to make you think differently.
And that's generally the conversation we're having because she's not involved every day.
I will say that from an hour's perspective, she has accepted as a significant other that
I do not turn off.
My kids have slightly accepted that I do not turn off.
So I know there's these whole things about work-life balance.
If you have a brain like me, that's impossible.
So it is work-life integration.
How do I integrate my life to work with my business?
My kids know what carbless point of sale looks like.
I'll call it out as soon as they see it in a store.
My kids know how to merchandise a store shelf.
I should say the seven-year-old and three-year-old not so much.
Next week, I'm taking a friend of mine and his family to earn two weeks to a Brewer game
where his kid is going to throw out the first pitch because I could really care less about
that.
But it's something that I was offered.
My dad was able to ride in an Indy car, something that was offered to me.
I couldn't make it, so I was able to get him to do it as a double up.
So I really just focus on all the opportunities that I end up getting by proxy of the brand.
How do I do that to help everybody else enjoy the hell out of their life?
That is awesome.
Tell, I think you wanted to mention that the Polites were on the show 50 50 Flip, which
is on Hulu and A&E.
Hulu and A&E, one of the top shows on television.
They're an amazing couple.
Oh my God, they're so nice.
They're so nice.
So speaking of nice couples, I also am lucky enough to work with my rock star wife.
How did you and Amanda meet and what is it like for you to be building a business?
I know she gets to do the event planning and whatnot, but how is that building a business
with your life partner?
So how we met in 2014, if you remember earlier, I told you I left the cheese factory for a
short period of time.
She hired me to be a outside sales energy consultant.
She was a VP for a small company in my tiny hometown.
So I always like to say since we got married, she's hired me twice.
So that's how we met.
We were actually both married when I started working there and it like the relationship
started probably three years later.
So as far as working with her, I think it is some of the things were afforded, allowed.
I can't put parts to it, man.
We get to do just things that are incredible.
I had a vision of my dream life 10, 15 years ago and this is better than I envisioned it.
There are no words for that.
Not said, it's a Mike drop moment.
That's awesome.
Yeah.
And I know PJ you're in the same place.
PJ's wife is incredible and also a hugely successful novelist.
And I know that he shares the same views about his relationship.
Oh yeah.
I'm just riding her coattails.
She's badass.
So Adam, I'm going to finish.
I, you know, we, PJ kind of took the, the light question on, on how you guys met.
And I want to finish maybe with a question that's about the future.
Where do you see Carbless?
You know, what, what, what do you, what do you envision?
Obviously your, your passion for your business is resonates, right?
If you, you know, I don't know if you have a vision board or how you think forward and
how much of it is, we'll get there versus you have a plan, but five years from now,
where is this business?
So something we didn't talk about too much, but there's, you know, scan data.
And so there is a brand that, you know, for you, Tal and PJ, depending where you're at
in Chicago is probably the biggest brand.
They are the biggest brand nationally for a vodka canned item.
And we like to say they're the biggest brand where Carbless does not sell.
And that's statistically and data accurate.
So we're the top selling in Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, North Dakota, South Dakota, any place
that we're fully distributed.
And so over the next five years, as we're compounding and that company is owned by three
billionaires and you know, kudos to them.
They built an amazing brand.
We didn't have the financial power to compete against them.
And as we continue to compound and have a grow a profitable business, we're getting
closer and closer.
Over the next five years, it's not being, you know, just a piecemeal number one RTD
becomes number one RTD in the nation.
And the best selling spirit in the nation is Tito's.
We're beating them in Minnesota.
We're super close to beating them in Wisconsin.
I think we're beating them in Iowa in sales.
And so the coolest part about this guys is when we talked about getting it on the shelf,
we're beating brands that have been around for, I mean, Tito's been about 25, 30 years.
This other RTD is maybe seven or eight, but we're beating brands in dollars.
Jack Daniels, Jim Beam, they've been around 100, 150 years.
And that I think is, you know, when you really put all of it together to be beating brands
like that in dollars, a bottle costs, you know, 35, they got to buy four packs for us
to beat that in dollars.
That's just incredible.
And so I think it's scaling it to that point of being the number one, but also we have
had nobody quit our business ever.
We've had to let a few people go because they weren't fit.
But if we wanted to keep them on, nobody's quit.
And if we can continue to scale at that pace and have people stay energized, engaged at
Carbless and love what they do, that I think we've done the brand justice and done it the
right way.
Our guest today is Adam Kroner, he's the co-founder of Carbless.
And you can probably tell why they've done as well as they have.
They just voted earlier this year the number one fastest growing company by Inc's regional
Midwest.
I know a thing or two about the alcohol industry.
I'm obviously originally from it.
And I congratulate you on what you've done so far.
And I have no doubt that five years from now, you're going to achieve whatever it is you've
set your mind and heart to.
So Adam, thank you so much for spending time with us today.
We really appreciate it.
Continue success to you and your family and keep braving business.
Thanks for having me.
And that's a wrap, folks.
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