The Chemical Peel Series - Mature Skin 

[00:00:00] Suzanne: your classic glycolics are great because, smaller molecules, they penetrate faster, deeper. The stimulation of the collagen production, helps to improve elasticity and it does target the lines as well, 

[00:00:15] Darine: Welcome to Beautybabel. So we have been doing a series on chemical peels and common skin conditions. Today's our final and we're talking about mature skin. We left the best for last. Common one, but why is that? Right, yes. Well, we can just kick off by just at least first defining mature skin, right? 

[00:00:40] Darine: Like, Everybody has a different idea of what that is.  

[00:00:43] Suzanne: Right, exactly. I have 20 year olds say that they have mature skins.  

[00:00:48] Darine: Mm hmm. I have 40  

[00:00:49] Suzanne: year olds that say they don't have mature skins. Mm hmm. Hmm. That's interesting. It's not an age thing. It's right. You see in front of you, right? I think that's because we're all [00:01:00] aging. 

[00:01:01] Suzanne: The moment we're born, we age. Yeah. That whole cell renewal, you know? But yeah, I think we can, let's classify when we look at, Are things that we can look and as a guidance to help us to remember those things. What was that scale called? The Google? Google? Glo Glo Glo Glo Glo Glo Glo  

[00:01:27] Darine: Glo Glo Glo Glo Glo Glo Glo Glo Glo Glo Glo Glo Glo Glo  

[00:01:43] Suzanne: Yes, and there are, we might as well talk about them, there are four, basically on that scale, right? 

[00:01:51] Suzanne: So, the first one is mild, and typically  

[00:01:54] Darine: So the first one is type 1, and it's called no wrinkles.  

[00:01:59] Suzanne: [00:02:00] Right, typically an age, typically 28 to 35, but It can vary, right? It depends on, it's just a guide, a guideline if you wish. So they say ages, but if you're kind of wondering about more of what you, like you said, the visual side of things, you know, mild, very little in any pigmentation changes, would you say? 

[00:02:22] Darine: Yeah. So this one would be like yeah, like you said, mild pigmentation. There's no no age spots, no, no Wrinkles. No visible wrinkles when your face is not moving. This is what we would look at and not think, mature skin. Yes, exactly. This is where we all want to stay. But, we move on to the second type, would be type two. 

[00:02:48] Darine: And this one is called wrinkles in motion. This is according to this scale of classification. But I mean it doesn't matter what you name it, it's what it looks like. So for this one it's like [00:03:00] any 30s and 40s, but that's like, that's 20 years. Like, so it, it's not really about the age as much as it is about what you're seeing. 

[00:03:08] Darine: With this one you're, you're looking at changes in skin texture, like early changes in skin. Skin texture, those, like expression lines, right? Like, where you smile and you get your little wrinkles in motion. Yes. Yes,  

[00:03:22] Suzanne: when it's moving. And you probably have, you start to see, see the pigmentation, right? 

[00:03:27] Suzanne: The hyperpigmentation, some spots. So I guess you could say like, typically the smile lines, the eyes, the eyebrow kind of thing, right? Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. The third one.  

[00:03:42] Darine: And I think before we get to that one, I think this is the one where, when it comes to these types, like chemical peels and clients, this is where I've seen the most of client range, right? 

[00:03:53] Darine: This is where they're like, Oh my gosh. We need to start doing something about this. Yes. Oh, and then [00:04:00] type, type three, which would be wrinkles at rest. And this is, if we want to put an age to it, we're going 50 and over. But this is where you can see visible wrinkles without movement in the face, right? 

[00:04:14] Darine: So we're, we're beyond those expression lines.  

[00:04:17] Suzanne: And you're, you can see the obvious pigmentation. It's not like you're really looking close, like you can actually see. Those areas probably texture wise, change,  

[00:04:27] Darine: yeah. Yep, and the last one is type four, and this is, I love the name of this one, only wrinkles. 

[00:04:39] Suzanne: Only wrinkles, I know where I want to be. Maybe I wouldn't, I wouldn't tell my clients this. Oh, you're wrinkled at rescue. Oh, you're only wrinkles.  

[00:04:50] Darine: Right?  

[00:04:51] Suzanne: Wrinkles in motion. In  

[00:04:52] Darine: the 60s or 70s, I feel like, I'm looking at a picture on this website about this and I feel like [00:05:00] I know women in their 60s that this, this, they don't have these wrinkles. 

[00:05:04] Darine: So I'm going to go older. This is older, but basically this is, oh right, it depends on lifestyle, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah,  

[00:05:14] Suzanne: when you look at their like only in their 30s and they look like they're more like in their late 40s Lifestyle, what do they eat drink? Sun exposure stresses of life. Yeah, you know autoimmune Medications like you keep naming it and so this is a guideline So that you know, you have something to look at  

[00:05:38] Darine: and this one for me like is It's just also deeper wrinkles. 

[00:05:42] Darine: It's not just about like they're just more pronounced. They're a lot deeper when you get into this phase of skin aging It's like treating with a lot more caution because those wrinkles are deeper That it just it [00:06:00] creates a lot more challenge and you cannot Kind of have that consistency in how much you're actually applying on to the skin because there's that pooling and whatnot. 

[00:06:09] Darine: So definitely a pause before considering clients in this phase.  

[00:06:16] Suzanne: Very true.  

[00:06:17] Darine: Because too, like, are you able to help them reach their goals with the level, with as deep as we can go in terms of our scope of practice? Probably not.  

[00:06:27] Suzanne: Right. And the other thing too is, I don't know, I always look at it, it's not just one, one treatment is the plan. 

[00:06:33] Suzanne: Right. So much at our hands nowadays that we can incorporate and change, but we're only talking chemical peels. We'll stick to that. But I'm just saying, it's not just. Just the chemical peels. What other things can you do with it? Chemical peels. I was looking at like that, like a hard kickstart almost, right? 

[00:06:53] Suzanne: But yeah, so I mean, your, your classic glycolics are great because, you know, [00:07:00] smaller molecules, they penetrate faster, deeper. The stimulation of the collagen production, you know, helps to improve elasticity and it does target the lines as well, right? So. Overall, even tone, those types of things. I mean, I think everyone who does facials and has their base of chemical peels to go back to your, your, your knowledge and just remember, why would you choose glycolic? 

[00:07:28] Suzanne: You know, why are you going to choose a lactic, you know, so lactics are still hydrating, they're larger molecules, it'd be a slower process, like it's again the why behind what you're doing instead of just everybody's going to get, I don't know, TCA's. Everyone's going to get a glycolic from me. You know, if you're doing chemical peels, you should have a range of chemical peels. 

[00:07:52] Suzanne: Not become chemists and start blending things. But I'm just saying then you can offer one treatment could be a glycolic. And then in the [00:08:00] next one, whenever you plan that out, could be the lactic. Like, there's a variation to it. And I should say on that note, doesn't mean you have to have all of the types of peels. 

[00:08:10] Suzanne: But if you do, utilize them on the knowledge that you were taught how to use them and based on what you see in front of you of the skin, right?  

[00:08:19] Darine: I think another really important consideration for treating mature skin is not just like, Identifying their, where they are in terms of their level of mature skin, but understanding how did you get to where you are, because how do we get the skin that we do, you know, is it there's like that, you know, some damage. 

[00:08:42] Darine: That's a big skin ager. There's stresses and Skin like conditions like medical conditions that can so there's so many factors at play and all of these talk about I'm mostly going to harp on the the photo damage like this is [00:09:00] really talking about somebody's lifestyle and how they are going to care for their skin. 

[00:09:05] Darine: It could be in my 20s I was very loosey goosey with my sunscreen but now I'm very committed and that's different right so really understanding like how did we get here here in terms of like, what have you been doing? Why do you want, where do you want to go? And why, why are you like, why are we even considering this is being a big part of it? 

[00:09:27] Suzanne: Yeah. I love that. It's totally, you have to get your clients involved in this. They have to make the commitment. Just a general facial. I mean, even with facials, I still want them to commit to something, but this is definitely on another level. And I think that honest conversation with your clients, they're, they're not going to want to hear what you have to say sometimes, but I think it's essential for your rapport with your client on that professional level to be honest with them in a, in a, you know, have empathy to them too, but. 

[00:09:58] Suzanne: Being honest, like, have I [00:10:00] said no? Yeah, I have said no to people, but I don't just say no, you don't qualify, you know, it's like, okay, I want to talk to you about this, and maybe it's just timing, right? I think I've said this before. I think right now, I just really want you to consider, well, why do you want to do this? 

[00:10:17] Suzanne: What are your expectations? And what are you willing to do at home? Because this is not just about this treatment right now I'm doing with you. But that would have been in the consultation anyway, so you would have known if they're going to follow through. But, you know, I think  

[00:10:31] Darine: I actually, sorry to interrupt you. 

[00:10:34] Darine: No, go ahead. On that note, like, I think if you don't think it's a good idea as the professional, I would not do it at all. Right, like not, you know, even if you say if I like have this, like you're going to know your client a little bit, hopefully that's not their first visit. And you, we say this every episode. 

[00:10:57] Darine: You know them enough to know like [00:11:00] if you're sensing like you're not comfortable with this, I would not do it. And of course, yes. Diplomacy, don't say no, offer a different treatment, but I, I want to, like, side note, I'm going to go into an off story. I saw this on TikTok the other day, and it was like, it's kind of like Judge Judy, but it was a different judge, and one girl who got her eyebrows microbladed was suing the professional because she came in with a picture and she's like I want these eyebrows and the professional said that's not a good idea it won't it's too dark for you but she still did it because the girl insisted and insisted and now and she hated them because it didn't it didn't sued her face. 

[00:11:44] Darine: Anyways, she lost the, she lost. But the thing is she, the, the client, she, the judge was like, no, cause there was paperwork. First of all, everything was documented.[00:12:00]  

[00:12:00] Darine: Exactly. She did. I mean, she did her part, but I think I would have, I was a little critical because I'm like, I would have just not done it. Like, I don't think that you should do something that you don't. Can't stand by professionally.  

[00:12:13] Suzanne: It's hard for some people to say no though.  

[00:12:15] Darine: It is but especially in our  

[00:12:16] Suzanne: industry. 

[00:12:17] Suzanne: Yeah, I know I've had those conversations with people so you have to just tell them why.  

[00:12:24] Darine: Not right now. Maybe I do this with my kids. We'll see, but maybe find a professional way of saying we'll see. And like, Oh, we can work towards that. But right now, this is my professional opinion. But I think that comes with a risk of losing, losing that client, losing that income. 

[00:12:42] Darine: A lot of that, that might come to us as a fear, right? Like, Oh, well, if I say no, somewhere else, or they're not going to want to come back and see me. But again, like you said, explaining it. And at the end of the day, Doing what you think in your conscience is the right thing to do.  

[00:12:58] Suzanne: Yeah, and I mean, and I [00:13:00] said it like I, I know I've said this to clients when I've had to say, I'm, I'm being direct here. 

[00:13:04] Suzanne: I didn't say no, we're not doing it like that. But I said, I know you're so disappointed. I apologize. I wish I would love to do this treatment for you. Honestly, I would, but here's my concerns. Yes. And really explain to them why it's like, you know, like you said, maybe it's a timing thing. Maybe it's like, you know, like I said before, it's happened where it's like, well, I really want to do this, but you're going to go. 

[00:13:26] Suzanne: On a vacation to the sun for two weeks and you're golfing for most of it, for example, right? Like it's just the wrong time, but you know what we can do for you so you can get the glow of your skin and recommend something else. Cause in the end, the goal is what's the, what's the point anyways, that's the point of the goal. 

[00:13:48] Suzanne: Then go back to the goal of your client. And without using the word no, it's like I have a different treatment for you and it takes time to build the confidence to be able to pull [00:14:00] that out of your hat really quick. I get that, but at the same time, I think they'll appreciate it more so from you as a professional, right? 

[00:14:09] Suzanne: I agree. And there's some people, yeah, they're pushy. They're, nobody really want, like the I was really happy to hear that she lost. She did lose. Because the professional did due diligence. Paperwork, paperwork, pictures, all those things. And, and to have the audacity to turn around and sue them when you asked for that. 

[00:14:29] Suzanne: This is unfortunately our world we're in right now. So, and I think that,  

[00:14:33] Darine: that was like States based, so a little different, I don't know, like, our Canadians, it might be different, but I think in a scenario where that lady would have said no to the client, and then that client would have gone somewhere else and gotten what they want, then they would have been mad at somebody else. 

[00:14:53] Darine: But I think, you know, taking back to chemical peels, like, if you offer an alternative solution,[00:15:00]  

[00:15:01] Darine: else. Any negative like maybe it turns out for them. Maybe it doesn't, but it's It's your, it's, you have to just do what you know is right.  

[00:15:11] Suzanne: Yeah, yeah. No, it's a good point. It's a good point. Other things to consider too when you are working with mature skins is that side of post treatments and how you're going to nourish the skin. 

[00:15:22] Suzanne: All, take advantage of what you've just done. So the skin is starting to absorb those nutrients. So think of, you know, hyaluronic acids, your peptides. You know, niacinamide is gaining, you know, momentum if you wish, because it helps to also, not only does it bring circulation out of it, it also helps to improve the skin barrier too. 

[00:15:44] Suzanne: So there's a lot of things to the other ingredients that are out there of the focus. And if you explain to your clients the why behind why peptides, well, it's going to help support the elasticity of the skin and the collagen production. You know, vitamin C, it's. It's going to fight the free [00:16:00] radical damage or, you know, like use your knowledge. 

[00:16:02] Suzanne: You have like, everyone has been taught these things, but it's just so much information, but how do you spew it out to people? So you almost have a checklist even to get going by saying, Hey, mature skins, I really want to make sure we have a few of these ingredients, which your products do right now or don't have. 

[00:16:21] Suzanne: Yeah. That's a good idea. 

[00:16:27] Suzanne: The other thing too is I'm having a coughing fit here is how often are you going to do it? Right? Recovery time 

[00:16:39] Suzanne: and the long haul of this, right? Like, so you think of, you know, can you do LEDs in this treatment? Can you offer things with them? And that's almost anybody, really any kind of skin condition. But really the aftercare to you is like talk to them about those nourishing treatments. nutrients after because it's not [00:17:00] acne. 

[00:17:00] Suzanne: It's not like other things that are going on here. We're really targeting about that mature skin and slowing, slowing down the aging, trying to help them with whatever stage they're at. Chemical peels are not just the one answer. And I think that's something we got to remind ourselves of. With  

[00:17:21] Darine: aging skin too, or sorry, mature skin. 

[00:17:26] Darine: Just taking into consideration if your client has Botox or filler, That is still, that's not a no. Like, you can still do a chemical peel, but there has to be like a time in between. So, if you're doing a treatment plan, like making sure you're, informing them to plan it out so when they're getting their next Botox, it's not around the same time that they're getting their next chemical peel and so on and so forth. 

[00:17:52] Darine: Just giving them that information as well.  

[00:17:57] Suzanne: Well, yeah, and that comes with all of the [00:18:00] skins because 20 year olds are doing this.  

[00:18:02] Darine: That's true. Yeah. So I think it's a good  

[00:18:05] Suzanne: reminder. To talk to them about it. 

[00:18:11] Suzanne: Perfect. Well,  

[00:18:15] Darine: I think we covered everything. I think this is, this is the one where I think we, I've done the most in this age category, or this skin condition I should say, when it comes to chemical healing.  

[00:18:29] Suzanne: Mm hmm.  

[00:18:33] Darine: Yeah, I think we covered it all.  

[00:18:36] Suzanne: I know I know everyone's probably like, but you didn't give a direct answers. 

[00:18:40] Suzanne: And that's the whole point of this there isn't an exact answer to this. Well, yes, you can do that. But, of course, however, How to do it. How long do you leave? Which one do I pick? There isn't a direct answer. I don't feel. I think you really [00:19:00] got to look at the skin, like we've talked about this before. 

[00:19:03] Suzanne: What's in front of you? What do you see? What is their lifestyle? What are they, you know, Okay. As you said, stressors or now with so many autoimmune health conditions out there and, you know, what else is going on? Like somebody that can't have gluten has gluten, they get inflamed. Is that the trigger? 

[00:19:23] Suzanne: There's so many things that could be the cause. So you really need to do your part as a professional and dig out as much information you can out of them, but tell them why. I think that's what we miss sometimes, is just explain to them why you're asking these things. Because you want the best result for them in the end. 

[00:19:41] Suzanne: You know, this is an investment that they're doing and they're trusting you to do it. So I think you just communicate a little bit better.  

[00:19:47] Darine: I think so, and I think it always comes back to your client's skin care goals. And how do you help them reach that goal with as little, you know [00:20:00] complication and risk as possible. 

[00:20:02] Darine: That could include chemical peeling, but chemical peel seems to be is never the default answer or the first thing that you would go to. It could be part of a treatment protocol that you would lay out long term, but it's never, in my opinion, I'm going to say this, it's never the first thing you do. I'm just going to say, in my opinion, it's never the first thing that you should do because you should really get to know Your client, get, get them in for a facial and then start them on their pre peeling and then you could do a chemical, like, you know what I'm saying? 

[00:20:37] Darine: Yeah, I  

[00:20:38] Suzanne: completely understand what you're getting at. It's not the first one you're, like, when people call in and say I would like to have a chemical peel, okay, and you've never had, you've never done a treatment on this person, ever.  

[00:20:49] Darine: Yeah, that's scary that some people do that some people do that and this is like no judgment, but would I do that? 

[00:20:57] Darine: No, I wouldn't do that. And I think you just [00:21:00] have to to our listeners like what do you want to do and then Doing it with the, you know, caring for your clients and their skin and not causing them any kind of Damage, you don't want to end up on that judge show, whatever it is, not judge Judy  

[00:21:18] Suzanne: Yeah, and I think like you touched on that saying maybe you maybe that is your your your business That's what you do. 

[00:21:24] Suzanne: You're specializing chemical peels and you're confident doing it Great, but I'm sure that you're not going out and just starting off with a 30 glycolic on them, you know, like I would trust the fact that if you're at that stage of this type of a business, you would have a lot of options. This is more directed to people in this industry who, you know, Maybe they have a lot of different types of treatments that they offer. 

[00:21:50] Suzanne: Chemical peels happen to be one of the facials that they offer and they just call it advanced chemical peels. So that's kind of what we're gearing to. But if you're an establishment. And your [00:22:00] specialty is advanced peels, well then you already have your protocols in place. I'm pretty sure that you're not just randomly doing someone off the street the first time ever. 

[00:22:09] Suzanne: And just banging out, like I said, a high peel. Cause you know you gotta do the pre treatments, you gotta know the skin. The whole thing, but this is gearing to our fellow professionals out there who, you know, they do hydration facials, they do, I don't know, microneedling, they do advanced peels, they do acne facials, that's how they name their menu. 

[00:22:31] Suzanne: So this is what this is kind of gearing to, it's like you have advanced peels, and that's why you call it, it's through one treatment, advanced peels. So that's that's what we were kind of referring to so, you know, if you are an establishment and you do chemical peels That's your jam. That's your niche. 

[00:22:50] Suzanne: That's what you do. Then. I'm pretty sure you're doing it, right? You know, you know what you're doing It's just these questions that have come up in this last little while for [00:23:00] us is why we brought this series on because this is Directed to the technicians out there that are not doing regular chemical peels all the time You And kind of forgetting what to do, so that's kind of what we kind of brought this out to. 

[00:23:15] Darine: Absolutely. Yeah. And we're always open for topic ideas and suggestions, so let us know what you want to hear next.