Chemical Peels for Darker Skin Tones

[00:00:00] Darine: ​Not everybody peels when they get a chemical peel.  You don't always want to peel, but what is the goal? setting the expectation for this is your skin tone and these are the limitations because of the possible complications  

[00:00:18] Darine: Welcome to this week's episode of Beauty Babble. Today we're talking about chemical peels. More specifically, we are exploring if chemical peels are safe for clients with darker skin tones. We, we did some pre chatting, we're both very passionate about this, I would say. How are you doing today, Suzanne? 

[00:00:40] Suzanne: I'm doing well. Well, you know what I think, too, is that we've been in this for a long time, so it's changed over the years. And we have to understand what the updates and what's been happening. It's just staying on top of things. So I'm glad that we had a chance to kind of pre chat a little more about it. 

[00:00:56] Suzanne: It has been something people have asked questions [00:01:00] about. Because everybody feels like they qualify for appeal. And from today's world, it's like age 10 to and up like it's just everybody it's in, you know, with all of the types of trainings out there, I think we're just trying to bring on some, you know, information so that you can think about what you're doing when you are planning your treatments in the treatment room. 

[00:01:22] Darine: I think accurate and then your clients are going to come to you with questions because they're watching social media and they're watching people doing peels on themselves and peeling, and it really, you know, on social media I've seen people with All the Fitzpatrick's doing chemical peels. And so it gives me pause to think like, somebody's going to watch it and think, Oh, I can go ahead and do it. 

[00:01:47] Darine: But they're like a Fitzpatrick six or five. And that would always be you know, Let's, let's stop first. So, so when we, when we are talking about our darker skin [00:02:00] tones we're referencing like the higher Fitzpatrick. I think you even said maybe fours five, sixes. Sometimes some of those cautions will go into the Fitzpatrick one as well, right? 

[00:02:12] Darine: So you just have to be aware of the skin that you're working with.  

[00:02:17] Suzanne: And on that note, what do we always start with? The consultation with people. You know, I, I, I think too, sometimes what happens is we're so comfortable with it and we just carry on through it. And I think we need to just pause as we know, not always do we have all the information from our clients, even if they fill out the forms ahead of time, you've had a chat with them, maybe via phone or text or messaging, but in a consultation, we start talking to that potential client. 

[00:02:50] Suzanne: I think you find a lot more when you start having conversations because then you can add on that Well, tell me more about that or all these things like I still remember a time [00:03:00] this one client We thought we had everything covered she comes in and I just happen to say Oh, you know, what are your plans coming up through the winter? 

[00:03:08] Suzanne: Because at Edmonton, Alberta, you know, October, usually people are planning their Christmas break. And I did know this client somewhat of her background. She was a teacher, so I knew her time off would be Christmas break with the kiddos, right? And she said, oh, we're going to Hawaii for two weeks. And I was like, red flag, red flag. 

[00:03:27] Darine: Yes.  

[00:03:27] Suzanne: Never did she mention it. And it's something like, even though I said, do you have any vacation plans in the near future? To her, that wasn't the near future. That's a good point. Yeah. Right. So future define that. Right. And I think that's why, you know, we have these devil's advocate, I guess is what we really are on this podcast. 

[00:03:46] Suzanne: Hey, .  

[00:03:49] Darine: But I think just  

[00:03:50] Suzanne: asking them,  

[00:03:51] Darine: and that is, goes hand in hand with like, I would ask them about their daily routine. Like, what, how, what, what do you do for your skin on a daily [00:04:00] basis? I wouldn't prompt like, you know. Mm-Hmm. . I wanna know are they cleansing, are they moisturizing? Most importantly. Are you using sunscreen? 

[00:04:08] Darine: Do you stay out of the sun? I'm not going to prompt. I want to just see where they come up with when they talk about their daily routine. And I think you can also tell, like, clients who, if you, if you do other body treatments on them or waxing, you can tell if they're a little darker in the face. You know, when you're doing, you know, Brazilian wax on them or whatever, you know what I'm saying? 

[00:04:30] Darine: So just really knowing, like, what is your daily routine? Because somebody who doesn't incorporate sunscreen into their daily routine might not be the best candidate for appeal, regardless of your Fitzpatrick, but especially a darker Fitzpatrick.  

[00:04:46] Suzanne: Definitely, yes. The other thing, too, is the medical history. 

[00:04:50] Suzanne: We need to keep in mind to, you know, Even if you know your client, you should be asking these, even in a general conversation, especially if you do know them, anything [00:05:00] else, I know this is a new treatment, so I'm going to go through this one more time with you, even though you've had waxing and facials or whatever it else may be, what else is there that we aren't thinking about, like, you know, so you're doing a I don't know, manicures or nails on this client and they decide on a pedic appeal treatment with you, you know, do they keloid, do they, like there's other things to think about you know, any kind of sun damage that they've noticed sometimes. 

[00:05:27] Suzanne: off season, you don't see their pigmentation until they go into the sun. That could be hypo or hyperpigmentation, right? So those are things that people just remember. I would just say, throw caution to the wind and redo that form, even verbally with them. You don't have to hand it to them, but go through your medical process of just touching base with them again. 

[00:05:48] Suzanne: And, and have they been on medication at all? Like you just don't know, even with antibiotics. Photosensitive ones, right? That's going to affect have a, have a, you know, what's the word? [00:06:00] Potential risk with it. You know, doing those types of Yeah. I like the way you worded that. Sorry. Yeah. The other thing is too, is like, what's your goal and expectations? 

[00:06:10] Suzanne: Do you know, I've had people say, well, Suzanne, I had a peel done and I didn't peel. It's like, well, what do you mean you didn't peel? Well, I didn't peel like a snake. I didn't see the skin come off. So it didn't work. Okay. You use a regular sun sorry, a skincare routine. You're exfoliating once to two, three times a week. 

[00:06:29] Suzanne: You get facials every two months or you're doing things already. What did you want to come off your face? This, this dead skin is only going to be there if it's there. You can't create dead skin on its own, right, without, like, you know what I'm trying to say.  

[00:06:44] Darine: Yeah. And I think the name is deceiving though, too, because chemical peel, you know, that doesn't mean you're going to peel. 

[00:06:50] Darine: Not everybody peels when they get a chemical peel. And it really depends on the intensity of the peel that you're doing. You don't always want to peel, [00:07:00] you know what I'm saying, but what is the goal? And I think that's. That's a really good place to start because if, is your client like, is this person booking with you to come in for a chemical peel out of nowhere? 

[00:07:14] Darine: Cause it happens like people, you know, they've see it's an available treatment, somebody will book for it. Like this becomes a consultation appointment before we even book the peel because it's You have to prepare, you have to prepare your skin to get a peel and you can't just like come off the street, come see your esthetician and go walk right in and get a chemical peel. 

[00:07:39] Darine: Maybe some places do that, but you should not do that. You really need to like, it's a long term relationship with your client. And  

[00:07:50] Suzanne: we are talking about the aesthetic side of things, what the medical world does that's different, that's not in our scope of practice, so we're keeping it to our, our level of training. 

[00:07:59] Suzanne: [00:08:00] And so really what you're saying is like, okay, consultation, you, you want to know skin assessment medical history, what are their goals and expectations, are they realistic? And in that, I think it's fair to say you should be choosing your own. And telling them what's the right peel you recommend to them. 

[00:08:18] Suzanne: And then talk to them about the pre treatment peels before you even start. So when they finish that consultation and they're going through, they're going home with their pre treatment peel kits.  

[00:08:29] Darine: And, and a plan, like when I used to do clients full time and do peels, nobody came for one peel, it was a treatment series where we would walk, go through the next few months, how we would space them out, what you're going to do in between each, and that's where it becomes really important to talk about that future. 

[00:08:51] Darine: Whereas like, I'm like, we're doing this in January, we're doing this in February, like you need to be. Sun avoidant in all of these times. Maybe [00:09:00] that doesn't work for the client. So let's reanalyze our plan It is it becomes a bigger plan because they feel when we talk about peels, we're referencing the goal Why are you doing this? 

[00:09:11] Darine: And how do you achieve your goal? It's not going to be one peel.  

[00:09:17] Suzanne: Yeah. And like, you do have people who ask, like you, you, you touched on that social media side that people are seeing this and professionals are seeing it and they want in on the trend. Just question yourself. First off, we always say this, check your products of what you have already. 

[00:09:35] Suzanne: Do you really need to go and buy another product? Is there something that you could have in your back bar already in your professional skincare? And if you don't ask, ask your educator provider, what do you have that's similar to this? How can I customize this? Because you can't keep up with the trend. 

[00:09:53] Suzanne: That's like saying, you're going to go buy the new iPhone every time it's out, right? Like, you know, You know, like there's always some pluses and minuses to it, [00:10:00] but sometimes, you know, people are like having a hard time surviving financially in this world. And sometimes because we're also not, you know, owning up to the fact that we're jumping on social media, like our potential clients or clients, and you're jumping in like them too. 

[00:10:14] Suzanne: And you just, Oh, what's that? What's this? And you're just chasing that. You're not becoming a specialist. You know, that you're not really refining your, your skills that you have already. And I think that's educating your client to what you do, then they won't be looking at those things. And if they do, more than likely, they're going to ask you, Hey, Doreen, I saw this on social media. 

[00:10:35] Suzanne: Do you have this? What is this? Be the reference. Yes. Be your, and if that's what your clients are doing, that's where you want to be. Because they're trusting your opinion, so good for you, if that's what's been going on. Maybe not everyone does it, you can't train everyone, but if a lot of your clients are doing that, that's, you know, kudos to you, you're doing a great job. 

[00:10:56] Darine: But, and, and talking about like, when the, when you're [00:11:00] choosing the right peel, I think it depends on what are you able to do within your scope of practice, because it depends on how you were trained, right? Like, yes. Were chemical peels included in your aesthetics training, or was that something that you had to get on top of it? 

[00:11:19] Darine: And did you have to do just one or two? Like, you know, there's different levels of training that comes with doing the peels. And with each level, I think that it's different intensities and depth of peel that you can do. Again, within limitations of aesthetics. We're not going to do like the medical.  

[00:11:38] Suzanne: Yeah, I know. 

[00:11:39] Suzanne: There's some people who have have asked, you know, they're saying, okay, I've, I, we did do this in school. And this will, how many treatments did you do? Oh, we just saw a demonstration. So you never did one on anybody? No. So how do you feel about that? I feel terrible. I can't, I can't do it. I don't feel confident enough. 

[00:11:55] Suzanne: Yes. So when you're out there searching for the programs, [00:12:00] Find out what it is, how, how do you get your hands on side of things so that you feel more confident because you should be scared of peels, . I think it's healthy to be, you know, not scared, but you know what I'm saying. You're a  

[00:12:13] Darine: healthy awareness to it. 

[00:12:15] Darine: Cautious, right? Respect. Yeah. Mm-Hmm. . I think that's really good and I think. You saying that about specializing, like, this is an area that you are really interested in, then you need to go take more courses, go become a specialist, and know everything there is to know about peels. You can take advanced courses and get really focused on this area. 

[00:12:37] Darine: But, yeah, I, I would be hesitant, like, you don't want to, because it can go wrong, I, I think we're going to talk about, you know, the possible complications as they come up, but, you know, in, in, before we get there, we can just, choosing the right peel depends on your training, and it depends on your client's goals, right? 

[00:12:58] Darine: So that's how Can you make,  

[00:12:59] Suzanne: can you do a [00:13:00] treatment plan for them, and tell them, this is what we're going to do, this week, next week, so on, at home, like you need to give them a plan. Sure. Absolutely. It's like a personal trainer in, in Peels, right? Like, and I think we have to own it to that level and, and if you're not confident about it, if the product line offers a training, then get it from them. 

[00:13:22] Suzanne: And  

[00:13:25] Darine: the first step is. You know in your plan is your pre peel so before you even get a treatment your client needs to go home with products and they need to prep their skin to with exfoliation and Whatever the I mean, I think it depends on the line We go  

[00:13:44] Suzanne: on the line in the goal to write a little bit. 

[00:13:47] Suzanne: Yeah, and it's conditioning the skin so you don't get that post treatment Inflammatory reactions, your reactions. Yeah, that's the whole point of just going slowly like think about you never worked [00:14:00] out and you know You're gonna go out you're gonna do a 5k run like how you're gonna feel the next week right terrible Your reaction is gonna be awful. 

[00:14:09] Suzanne: Your inflammatory system is gonna be off the charts. Well, your skin is the same thing Our whole body works in that The other thing is the Sun like you said, I think it's a big one be confident to say no to your clients Or postpone, say no for now. Listen, when you come back in January, whatever that date is, let's look at that because you're not travelling again till when. 

[00:14:30] Suzanne: So, no, I won't be travelling from there. Oh, I'm actually going to be golfing. Okay, golfing season in your area starts when? So, you're looking at the window of peel season for your client. We have a peel season, but not always does it work that way, right? It could be, you know, What climate it could be your area at the time of the season, but it also could be your client themselves Yeah, what about the lifestyle right? 

[00:14:53] Suzanne: I think you have to remember all those things and if you explain to your client why They're going to [00:15:00] respect you to give them, you know, all the information they need so they can make the right decisions. It's not just, no, I'm not doing it. Give them the walk behind it, right?  

[00:15:08] Darine: And alternative, like you said, you can postpone it or you can find an alternative treatment. 

[00:15:13] Darine: Maybe regular facials or I don't know, something That will just in the meantime till they can help them prep their skin for for that treatment  

[00:15:25] Suzanne: with you. What Fitzpatrick would you say you are during? Where do you fall? Do you think? I believe a four a four. Have you had any reactions? to peels your skin always handled them pretty good, right? 

[00:15:38] Suzanne: Yes. Yeah, yes. Okay. I mean, I'm lighter than you so that's why I wanted to ask and you're a four, so that's good.  

[00:15:45] Darine: And I do think you're right, like it, I darken very easily but I also like do not have I don't have reactive skin at all, and I was cautious, and I was cautious when I did my peels, [00:16:00] right? I pre peeled, I stayed out of the sun, I didn't want to cause any damage, but it really depends, and I think patch testing is a good idea to do to see how your client is going to react to a peel. 

[00:16:15] Darine: If you don't know their skin, or they, they're unsure about it, maybe they've done peels before, and they, you know, they haven't had any issues.  

[00:16:23] Suzanne: You know, you could do it even in the consultation, could you not? And then, you know, even beforehand, how things are going, why wait for that first treatment? Yeah. 

[00:16:31] Suzanne: Why not see where they're at and how they react? And if you keep it as a protocol and standard, you're not picking apart any certain Fitzpatrick. It's just protocol. We do it to everybody. I think it's a really great practice to do for that first time person, right? Or maybe it's a new peel. You're trying something different. 

[00:16:49] Suzanne: You've come across something new you were trained on. So anytime like that would be a patch test.  

[00:16:55] Darine: Yeah.  

[00:16:55] Suzanne: Right?  

[00:16:56] Darine: Yeah. It's a good idea. It also allows your client to, you [00:17:00] know, get a little sampling of what it could feel like. I mean, different parts of the face will react differently. I think it just depends. 

[00:17:08] Darine: Right. But it's just a good way to, to, you know, to ensure that you're on the right path with what you've chosen for your client.  

[00:17:16] Suzanne: Okay, what about during treatment? Let's talk about the treatment itself. What are some key things that we can help our listeners with when we're thinking about? It is the time of the treatment. 

[00:17:29] Suzanne: Okay.  

[00:17:29] Darine: Well, I think when it comes to the treatment itself, it depends on, you know, the kind of peel that you're, you're working with. My biggest thing is like, and you do, I would do this during the consultation, but just really making your client aware of what to expect during the treatment what it's going to feel like. 

[00:17:51] Darine: And They're usually you ask for a rating like if I'm one to five and five being really terrible How like really explaining like what that [00:18:00] feels I had a different type of treatment a massage treatment And she was asking me to rate it, but she didn't really explain like the limit of ten I'm like, oh twelve and she's like, well, that's hospital. 

[00:18:12] Darine: I'm like, oh no, then I'm being dramatic. It's not that you know, so Really explaining what does 5 feel like, what does 10 feel like, just so that you're getting an accurate read on your client's reaction, because sometimes, A, you're watching, like you read the peel, like you have to watch and see what's happening with the skin, but you also need to ask your client to tell you what it's feeling like for them. 

[00:18:35] Suzanne: Yeah, so like things like, of course you would think, especially if it's a stronger peel, or deeper, I should say it's a deeper peel, excessive redness. The term frosting comes up. What is that exactly so people understand? Irritation is another, we know that's a big you know, flag, but frosting can happen during peels, the deeper peels, the advanced  

[00:18:57] Darine: peels. 

[00:18:57] Darine: Frost can happen, but if [00:19:00] we're talking about a higher Fitzpatrick, Your first peel on them should not be any peel that would result in frosting to begin with and not one that I would even want to attempt on somebody with a higher Fitzpatrick. So I think when we're talking about choosing the right peel, because in this episode we're really focusing on our darker Fitzpatrick, you're looking at the percentage of your peel and you're looking at the pH. 

[00:19:26] Darine: So that will determine how deep it goes into the skin and the type of peel it is, right? Like, is it glycolic? Is it lactic? Because those different molecules penetrate differently into the skin, right? Right. And some of them  

[00:19:41] Suzanne: have a  

[00:19:41] Darine: combination, right? And some of them are combinations. So just really understanding how, what am I doing and how does it penetrate. 

[00:19:48] Darine: With our darker Fitzpatrick and me being like super cautious, I would literally pick the lightest peel I had for the first treatment. Because the, the saying, I think this comes [00:20:00] from somebody else, not me, but slow and steady wins the, the post peel race. Because really the, the goal of the treatment is to get to the goal of the client. 

[00:20:09] Darine: And that is to make sure you don't have any post peeling complications. You want healthy skin and no reactions after their peel.  

[00:20:19] Suzanne: Right. And I think, you know, touching on that is just understanding, you know, the guidelines of the peel. That you're using. And like you said, that, that step by step building on the peel, not in, in the treatment, but as each treatment goes on, whether it's one week apart, two or three, right? 

[00:20:37] Darine: Well, within each treatment too, like you can intensify your peel Depending on layer, some peels are layers, some peels are time peels, so with each one you would then determine, because sometimes if the first treatment is your lightest peel, like maybe you do the lightest peel and you only do One round, whether it's one layer or one timed [00:21:00] round. 

[00:21:01] Darine: And then the second treatment, you stay with the same level of peel, but you just increase the time or you increase the layer. Depending on the type of peel, you can increase it that way. So we don't have to increase the intensity of the peel that we're doing, but we can increase our timing and our layers, right, and that will also help you advance in your peel from treatment to treatment without pushing it too far. 

[00:21:25] Darine: And causing any complications for your clients.  

[00:21:28] Suzanne: Right,  

[00:21:29] Darine: right.  

[00:21:30] Suzanne: Nice point. I like that.  

[00:21:32] Darine: This is making me want to go get a peel. I know.  

[00:21:35] Suzanne: And it's almost time. Yeah. Okay. And now, I think we've touched pretty good on the treatments itself. Again, if you've got questions, we really do encourage you to send them in. 

[00:21:45] Suzanne: If you can't speak to your educator of the product line that you're using, they should be able to help you and discuss and just even like sometimes people haven't done appeal in Right. That's fair. So now, okay, it's coming. It's [00:22:00] our peel season. I know we, we say that a lot in our industry. But if that's the case and it is your peel season time, then okay, go back into your notebook or online, your PDFs, whatever you've got and start re visiting that and relearning and make sure you got all your, you know, T's crossed and your eyes dotted as they say. 

[00:22:20] Suzanne: So now post treatment. So post treatment is always fun because people forget about post treatment sometimes. Our clients like to forget sometimes. I'm done, so off  

[00:22:28] Darine: I go. And this, this is actually, we talked about this in our insurance episode. We talked about, we talk about this all the time. Take some pictures, people. 

[00:22:37] Darine: Take pictures of your client before, take pictures of your clients after, to document the redness or the rea if there's reaction on the skin, right? And then I would always Print out the instructions, if you have like a digital process, print them out anyways, and send them digitally, and [00:23:00] remind them repeatedly, because it is crazy how little people read and then In the moment of after you're peeling you panic. 

[00:23:09] Darine: And you're like, well, what was I supposed to do again? And if they have a place that they can reference for that the more, the more places that they can go to really get that answer before they decide to do something is the better.  

[00:23:23] Suzanne: You know now with and you'll be so proud of me on this one, with technology you can even have your stuff set up as, Automations that go out after your treatment. 

[00:23:33] Suzanne: So if it's a, if it's a booking, maybe your system does automation so that, that post pedal care reminder goes, it gets sent out to them. Or maybe it's part of your protocol that, okay, write it down. Like, did I send out, you know, a note, an email, a text, a DM, whatever you've got to do. I'm all about time, so I'd rather have mine set up. 

[00:23:52] Suzanne: But if you're a person that's got to go in there and manually do it, then you got to have the time to do that. Make sure that you cover that. So, you know, Post [00:24:00] treatment care, like I'm talking, they're done all of their sessions, right? But there's also post post treatment care during the treatment process of however. 

[00:24:10] Suzanne: After each peel. After each peel, right? So  

[00:24:13] Darine: again. Product. You gotta send them home with product. You cannot send them home to do, to use their own product. I would include it in the pricing of the peel. It's included, it is mandatory that you take this. And then this is what you use because that also helps your client not get confused over is this, should I be using this? 

[00:24:36] Darine: You can number it, you can label it, whatever, but just having like use this, this and this. Usually like, you know, the first three days it would be different. And then, so just really having a clear instruction list for how to use the products for the first, you know, few days after the peel and till, because if they're doing a series, right, like you're going to post peel [00:25:00] and then you're going to go back into your pre peel treatment protocol. 

[00:25:03] Darine: So you'll always be in In the cycle of your, your peeling, right?  

[00:25:10] Suzanne: And it sounds like sales. So I'm going to, I'm going to touch on that. You're not selling them the product, you're selling them a treatment and it has a protocol and it's a protocol. So if your clients love their products at home, ask them, can you stop using it just for this time? 

[00:25:24] Suzanne: And when we're finished, I'll help you get back into your old product. But for the safety of this, I don't know your products that you're using. I know what will work here. And it's just part of it. You have to say with confidence, because clients, if you're not confident, well, I don't know, like, I don't really recommend it. 

[00:25:42] Suzanne: It's like, are you sounding confident? No,  

[00:25:45] Darine: no, it's  

[00:25:46] Suzanne: That's part of your verbiage. You're going to have to be confident and explain to them why you're not selling them. You're giving them a treatment and you're setting them up for their goals to be successful. And if you don't bring that all together, [00:26:00] you know that I think that it comes with time and I get that. 

[00:26:03] Suzanne: But if you've been at this for a while, you have to have that level of confidence to tell your clients the truth of all of it. Absolutely. And this  

[00:26:14] Darine: is in the consultation, like in consultation with your treatment plan. These are the products that are included in this treatment. These are the only products you can use for as long as, because, and you explain why, right? 

[00:26:27] Darine: This, we're reaching a goal. They're made  

[00:26:30] Suzanne: together. There, there's a purpose behind it all. You know, I'm not, honestly not trying to sell you a product. I'm here to sell you. And I think clients are okay with that though. It's how you direct it and say it, right? Yeah. And I think a big thing too is You know, make sure the clients understand that they're following your protocol, so no outside exfoliations. 

[00:26:46] Suzanne: Don't get other treatments done. Do you promise not to do dermaplaning? Do you promise? Because they're jumping all over ship, all over the place, getting treatments done. Yeah. You know, so I think just help them understand of what to avoid [00:27:00] during these next few weeks, months, however long your treatment plan, that consultation give them the whole thing. 

[00:27:06] Suzanne: I've spent an hour in a consultation with clients and, and, and I didn't even, I can't consider it even to be super advanced peels that we did. You know, 30 percent glycolic, some salicylic, but still, I mean, there's other things there. What else? Oh, follow up is a big one, right?  

[00:27:24] Darine: One, yeah, one more thing about the post treatment. 

[00:27:26] Darine: I would also just explain what to expect because I think on like day seven, your skin is going to look horrible. You are going to hate it. It's going to be like, It just like it's gonna be gray. It's gonna it's just not you're gonna want to feel like you need to exfoliate your skin or something. So I think just having that potential patient like just saying, Okay, and for the first three days, it might be read and might be itchy, whatever. 

[00:27:54] Darine: But after that, then it's going to by day seven. And this depends on the peel, right? You need to know the product [00:28:00] that you're working with. But by this day, it's going to look very dull. It's going to look really drab. Don't do like, then just keep going by day 10 or whatever it is. It's going to look a lot better. 

[00:28:12] Darine: So just really setting those expectations  

[00:28:14] Suzanne (2): and just  

[00:28:15] Darine: laying it all out because. I know, even though I knew it, when I would do it on myself, I hated my skin at that point, and I really wanted to do something. Like, I'm just like, I can't. But then if I waited and I was patient, it paid off. But it really is something that you need to like, be very clear about. 

[00:28:35] Darine: Especially when you're working towards a goal. You don't want to look worse, but you're gonna.  

[00:28:39] Suzanne: Yes, that's good. That's a good point. It can definitely can happen. That's for sure.  

[00:28:44] Darine: All right, so complications.  

[00:28:46] Suzanne: Yes, let's talk about managing complications. Tell us  

[00:28:49] Darine: what kind of complications can arise.  

[00:28:54] Suzanne: Well, in the darker Fitzpatrick, I can imagine, like you said, you touched on the colouring of the [00:29:00] skin. 

[00:29:00] Suzanne: Hopefully it's not going to be too much of texture, but there would be some of that. But letting your clients know what is okay, what they might think is the complications part of the effects. So what don't we want to happen to the skin? So that, you know, pigmentation changes. That's an issue. That's that post inflammatory response of the skin with all Fitzpatrick's can happen, but definitely with the darker Fitzpatrick's, right? 

[00:29:27] Darine: Yeah, and I think if you're doing peel peels where your client is peeling or anything like that, not to pick at them because picking can cause more of that hyperpigmentation or changes in pigmentation.  

[00:29:40] Suzanne: The skin is peeling. Don't pull it. Make sure they understand that. Allow it just to slough off on its own. 

[00:29:47] Suzanne: Which sucks.  

[00:29:48] Darine: It's, it's  

[00:29:49] Suzanne: part of the thing  

[00:29:49] Darine: that really sucks. Like, I've had conversations with people, like, their skin hanging off their face because they're peeling and you're just like, I know that you're not supposed, I want to reach over and [00:30:00] pull it for them, but You cannot pull the skin.  

[00:30:03] Suzanne: But it almost sounds like it's a permanent makeup thing. 

[00:30:05] Suzanne: The same thing with that, right? It goes to the ugly stage before it looks nicer.  

[00:30:08] Darine: It really does. And like with, with permanent makeup where you've got your scabbing, you're not supposed to pick on. Like, this is just part of like, you have to let the skin heal itself. Yes,  

[00:30:20] Suzanne: I love that point. Let it heal itself. 

[00:30:22] Suzanne: Yeah. And then of course, you know, the post peel kits for them. And then after treatment. If they're finished their sessions, what can they, what can they expect, I guess you could say, after it's all done. What are your thoughts on that, Cherine?  

[00:30:36] Darine: Well, and I think that is a conversation that you have along the way, right? 

[00:30:40] Darine: Like, as you're going through your treatment protocol, are you where you thought you would be with your client? Are you running into any kind of, blocks in in progress with their skin. Maybe there's something they're not telling you. So I think where you are at the end of your series depends really on how it went all [00:31:00] along. 

[00:31:01] Darine: Never make I never make promises of like, Oh, we're gonna do a series of six and you're just gonna get to your goals. We're gonna do to help you work towards your goal, but never I never make promises because it just depends everybody's skin has a mind of its own. It reacts differently. Right. So I think it's just getting to the end and then doing would you do like a post consultation like go through how are you feeling about where you are. 

[00:31:28] Darine: I think that would be What are your, what remains as your goal, and then how do we address that moving forward?  

[00:31:36] Suzanne: That could be another session without the treatment. It's part of it, just like you did your consultation, right? Yeah, like I  

[00:31:43] Darine: think at the end, like your last treatment, they come back in two weeks, and you have your wrap up, right? 

[00:31:48] Darine: Then you sit down, you're like, hey, how are we feeling? What are you, what are you still working towards? What worked for you? What didn't?  

[00:31:58] Suzanne: So really all [00:32:00] overall, when we're working with darker complexions is you know, careful selection of products, what you're going to use, you know, that meticulous application, like the plan behind it, right? 

[00:32:12] Suzanne: What's the goals of the client? How are we going to do this? A range of treatments through a certain timeframe of weeks or months type of idea and educating your client. As much as you possibly can, give them all that they need, right? So that they can make those right choices when they're not with you. 

[00:32:31] Suzanne: As well. And I  

[00:32:32] Darine: think, absolutely, and I think like the darker Fitzpatrick's, you have to just let them know that it's not, an intense peel. Like, I always keep it very light. I go light peel and we work slowly towards your goal because causing any complications or damage to the skin is really working against the goal that your client came in to see you. 

[00:32:56] Darine: And setting the expectation for this is your skin [00:33:00] tone and these are the limitations because of the possible complications. And I think I, I think a lot of people do know that, but I know I've seen a lot of different social media folks, different Fitzpatrick's peeling the bejesus out of their skin. 

[00:33:15] Darine: And I'm just like, Oh, that's scary.  

[00:33:18] Suzanne: You know, and on another note, just to mention we'll speak of, well, I mean, in the States is the same thing. Every state's going to have their guidelines and their restrictions in Canada as well, so that, you know, it is your due diligence to know what you're allowed to use. 

[00:33:34] Suzanne: in the scope of practice of your certification. Just because you can get your hands on it, people, like Amazon, these websites, doesn't mean you should be using it on your clients. So please make sure that you don't get in trouble with your government. Regulator. I don't know how to explain that, but I think people know what I'm talking about. 

[00:33:58] Suzanne: I know people have said, well, [00:34:00] I can get my hands on, I won't say the name. And I say, okay, but that's, that's banned in Canada. In our scope of practice, we're not to be using that. Yeah, but I can get it. So it doesn't mean, because you can get it, that you should be using it. You can't use it. And I think we need to remind ourselves. 

[00:34:16] Suzanne: First off, why are you thinking you're better and beyond what they're regulating? There must be a reason behind it, you know, and you can't compare yourself to a doctor level training to compare to, even if you've taken advanced training, if you are a medical practitioner and that's again, the nurses, the doctors, that level, they are able to take higher level courses in our scope of practice. 

[00:34:43] Suzanne: They can call it advanced, you know, chemical peel course, but it's not medical level. So just keep that in mind. Like, it's good to understand all the peels and it's really good to know what's out there, what are the medical places using. So you have a [00:35:00] good understanding to why they're doing what they're doing. 

[00:35:03] Suzanne: But if you explain to your clients, well, in my scope of practice, this is what I'm going to do for you. This is my training based on the products that I carry and why I choose to do it this way as well. And I think it's important just to explain that as well. Don't try to compete with the doctors. For the medical practitioners, you know, and I think that's a big part and if you don't know Ask your insurance company Oh yeah, that's a good one. 

[00:35:28] Suzanne: Right, if you're not sure, because it's, you know, you can Google, like we did, it's like, is it or isn't it banned? Where do we find this? So we went right to the Canada hot list, right? And that's where we discovered some of them too, that people are still trying to, they call in, hey, do you carry this? It's like, no, and nor should anyone else in our area practice. 

[00:35:51] Suzanne: Yeah, I  

[00:35:51] Darine: think another important point, and that's a thing that I always. 

[00:35:59] Darine: [00:36:00] I think that in order to really help your clients understand a certain experience, yes, it's going to be different depending on different skin tones and different how your skin reacts, you need to you need to experience it for yourself, giving chemical peels and not having received one. It just, it's It would be odd. 

[00:36:20] Darine: I think, do it on your own. I think that's totally  

[00:36:23] Suzanne: fair. I've, I've, you know, some people have told me when they have taken courses of all levels, you know, they, Waxing, they're waxing people and they've never had waxing done. It's like and in your course They didn't you didn't get waxing done. My god. I remember when I first started. 

[00:36:39] Suzanne: Okay, first day of class was let your hair grow Mm hmm, because we're gonna be waxing soon You know It's just part of you have to experience to understand it and I think that's a really fair point And if you don't qualify for the peel that you're using, well, what do you qualify for? Based on your skin type and what can you do or what area could you try it on that's safe?[00:37:00]  

[00:37:00] Suzanne: You know, it doesn't always just have to be on the face either, right? So yeah, this is you can do it So hopefully this has helped you know performing chemical peels and keeping it safe with our darker skin tones  

[00:37:11] Darine: Exactly. Just go slow And as always if anyone has any comments or questions, just let us know