Trans Client upset 
 [00:00:00] Darine: Welcome to this week's episode of Beauty Babble. Today we're talking about an article I came across. Trans woman upset esthetician who only waxes female clients refuse to give her a service. So we're going to go into a little bit more about it. How are you doing today, Suzanne? 
 [00:00:16] Suzanne: I'm doing good. This one's a, a doozer. 
 [00:00:20] Suzanne: If anyone even understands those words. I know, the title's a little confusing, so I'll tell you a little bit about what the, what the article was, and then we can talk about it, because I found it really interesting. So, this aesthetician had a client book for a Brazilian wax. When the client came in, the aesthetician realized after, almost beginning the service realized her client had male anatomy and at that point the esthetician told the client that she could not continue the service. 
 [00:00:54] Darine: She said that she couldn't continue the service because she wasn't trained to do Brazilian [00:01:00] waxing on male anatomy, then she also went on to talk about how it's also personal because she, her husband, her and her husband have an agreement about how she's not to do services on anyone with male anatomy. 
 [00:01:15] Darine: And so this client was upset that, about the whole situation. And so I thought we could talk about it a little bit. I went, I went on Reddit. Of course, I got really into it, so I went on Reddit to see what, what other people were saying about this. And there was a lot of chat about the different ways that this esthetician could have handled the situation a little better, right? 
 [00:01:44] Darine: Because I think you and I both in agreement, like you, you can say no to a service, but I think it's the way in which you handle the the situation that makes the difference. 
 [00:01:56] Suzanne: Yes, of course. I'm always saying, keep your [00:02:00] personal stuff out of your services. It's And this is a prime example. Had she kept to the fact that she was not trained, I mean, even we try to be very specific when we're doing trainings ourselves, that we are doing female anatomy Brazilian waxing. 
 [00:02:18] Suzanne: We are doing male anatomy Brazilian waxing. It's, of course, it's different parts. Of course you need training on it. I mean, it's no, I don't blame her saying, no, I'm not trained in this. Had she left it at that? And then offered something. I mean, there's a lot of other things that can be done as we, as we know, like the person when they booked didn't know this. 
 [00:02:40] Suzanne: So what are some other strategies that you doing so that your clients or potential clients are booking in for the first time? And I mean, that's, that's the whole thing is, you know, sometimes people are doing, they're starting out their business and they're only doing messaging. Through Instagram direct messaging through Facebook, [00:03:00] whatever it may be text, but there's nothing showing those that information and I think that's what's lacking is that crucial part, even though I tell people and I advise them and say, listen, you need to. 
 [00:03:14] Suzanne: You know, make sure you have this information. Where can they read that they do, that you do this or even contraindications and how to prepare for your waxing and, or facials or whatever it may be. It's no different in this one. And yeah, it's too bad that she went through that because it's a tough situation. , 
 [00:03:32] Darine: I would have explained that I'm not trained. 
 [00:03:35] Darine: There's different levels of training that are involved because it's different ways of holding the skin. Like there's so much more to it. And then maybe offering a a different type, like if, did you want just like a bikini wax, I could do that. Or how about I refer you to somebody, like some way to continue the customer service in the, like, I think all the [00:04:00] points about. 
 [00:04:00] Darine: The marketing and stuff about it is valid, but even in the room from what she could control at the time. I think she did 
 [00:04:07] Suzanne: offer to say like, I can try to find someone for you. But I think that the whole part is she brought the personal in and that was done. Because it's a very sensitive topic today, which I can understand and appreciate. 
 [00:04:20] Suzanne: But have it in your pocket already. You know, have, have these things ready to go so you're like, Oh, you know, my fault for not having that explanation up for you. And I truly apologize. You have to say sorry. You do have information to your client or your potential client. And I think. Even though I'm sure she's you know, very pleasant and was being as kind as she could be, but she pretty much shut that door hard when she brought the personal side in, I feel. 
 [00:04:48] Suzanne: I 
 [00:04:49] Darine: think she made it personal for the client too, right? Like then the client took a personal offense to it in a way. Of course it would 
 [00:04:56] Suzanne: be, 
 [00:04:56] Darine: because she put her belief into it. Totally. [00:05:00] And I don't know, like, I know it's hard. It got messy, right? That's where I think, like, you just never bring personal anything into, into your work. 
 [00:05:09] Darine: You're either trained to do a service or you're not trained to do a service. And that should be your key. And I think there's a definite good learning for, for this institution, but I think that's why we wanted to talk about it, because I think this is an opportunity to, for everybody to go back and look at how they are sharing the information. 
 [00:05:26] Darine: So. I, in preparation for our chat, I did a Google search for Brazilian waxing in my city, in Edmonton, and I just went through the top ten search results that came, nothing that was sponsored, it was just like all organic, and of the top ten, only two differentiated or specified it. one way or another. 
 [00:05:50] Darine: The one place said male or female Brazilian, but the other place, which I really liked, actually referred to people [00:06:00] with female anatomy or people with male anatomy. So it talked, it was very, I think the, just the changing that wording makes it more open and more inclusive. And it's very clear on what you are offering and whoever is looking is able to then know that they are going to be, they're going to be received just as they are, right? 
 [00:06:23] Darine: So I think that is, but eight out of the 10 had no, just had Brazilian waxing, no clear 
 [00:06:31] Suzanne: message 
 [00:06:32] Darine: differentiation between different body anatomy types. So I think that that is a lesson to everybody to be very clear in your messaging. I don't think there's anything wrong with saying that you're, you know, just offering female anatomy Brazilian. 
 [00:06:50] Darine: That's what I do. And that's all I've ever done. I've seen demos of male anatomy Brazilian. And I know that. I would need more training [00:07:00] because it is so different in the way that you position and hold the skin and everything. So it's so valid to be able to say one or the other. If you're not trained, I wouldn't want anybody waxing me if they're not trained. 
 [00:07:13] Darine: So I think that's a good thing. 
 [00:07:15] Suzanne: I think people, you know, you're going to have your personal, not you, Doreen, just in general, people are going to have their personal thoughts and opinion of it, and you have to understand what's the difference in the clear messaging, female, male, Brazilian. Well, they identify as female or they identify as male, but the anatomy is not. 
 [00:07:33] Suzanne: And I think that's where it needs to go is really differentiate that side of it has nothing to do with how you identify. It has everything to do with what parts are we working with. 
 [00:07:43] Darine: Yeah. That's why I love that. Like male anatomy, female anatomy, super, super clear on what you are offering and to who. 
 [00:07:52] Suzanne: So I've done a few, interesting enough, a few courses lately on Brazilian waxing and most of them are only doing female [00:08:00] anatomy. 
 [00:08:00] Suzanne: And I brought this up. I said, so how will you identify this so that this doesn't, you know, happen? And they looked at me like profound, like, what do you mean? And I said, well, in this day and age, you need to be very clear. Take care. But they have male parts are going to know that no, because that's not how they identify. 
 [00:08:17] Suzanne: And this is not and then you know sometimes personal opinions get into I said it's nothing personal. Doctors are not going to look at them as whether they're male or female they're going to look at their anatomy. It's the same process that we need to switch our train of thought. On that side, keep the personalness out of this. 
 [00:08:33] Suzanne: If you're in the service industry or you don't want to be dealing with this, let's just say, then make it clear of what you're, what you're wanting to do. Right. And, and that's fair. You can refuse service. You have to be very careful on what you're saying and how you say it. And in all the years I was doing, very rare did I refuse to do a service. 
 [00:08:57] Suzanne: It was rare. It was, you know, and it never became [00:09:00] that they knew I was refusing the service. It was an educational process of it. And sometimes it was like I took the ownership saying I needed to be clear. You know, it's like but these weren't about this, this was, had nothing to do, this was other situations of, you know, a nail tech, it's like, why didn't know I was getting a new nail tech, I said, well, a junior nail tech, and maybe I should have done a better description of what a junior nail tech meant, which I thought I did, but I still had to apologize because this person didn't understand, for whatever reason, but we know why everybody, they don't read, but when you can refer back to something, your website, your page, your document, you send them, whatever it may be, screenshot it and send it via text if that's how you're doing it, but something in writing so they can read it and understand. 
 [00:09:48] Suzanne: I get 
 [00:09:49] Darine: that people don't read, but I think that's even why more, especially with this, that you need to be super, super specific. So I think that with this specific, with the one account I [00:10:00] found I won't name any names, but with the one that I found, it was the name of the service, Full Brazilian person with male anatomy. 
 [00:10:08] Darine: So you couldn't miss it. It's in the name of the service. So I think that being very clear and knowing where you're putting it on the page or whatever it has to be like right there You can if you're even if you're like if you're doing online booking, because a lot of places have online booking, they would need it while they're booking it online, like it's in the title of the service, you're not putting it somewhere as an option or burying it anywhere. 
 [00:10:35] Darine: Right. So I think going back and looking at your services is a really good. And looking at it with different eyes, not your own eyes. Different lenses, 
 [00:10:43] Suzanne: right? 
 [00:10:43] Darine: Yeah. 
 [00:10:44] Suzanne: Step back and take a look and how are you, how is your menu showing people what you do? Yeah. Ask somebody else to look at your service menu for you. 
 [00:10:52] Suzanne: Yeah, exactly. You know, there's a lot of people who have mentors or they, you know, are good friends or, you [00:11:00] know, within the industry of other people, it could even be that you're doing waxing, but someone's, I don't know, a PMU artist, and that's your good friend in the industry. That's okay. Get someone else's eyes on this. 
 [00:11:09] Suzanne: That can help you because this is preventable, right? This is definitely preventable. And sometimes, unfortunately, you know, someone might take it to a different degree and that that's just our customer service world, right? In all aspects, you know, we're, we're not targeting any, any, anybody in specific. 
 [00:11:27] Suzanne: It's just in general. How, how can you be more clear with your menu and what you, what you do and what you offer? Like for another one, I I've said to some people, they're starting on their own, they're living on their own and they're working out of their home, right. In a room. And I said, so you work alone. 
 [00:11:43] Suzanne: Have you considered how to keep yourself safe? What do you mean? You're working alone. You're bringing strangers into your home alone and they go, Oh, I never thought about that. It's just the same process. Like, what are some things you've got to think about? Right. That's a whole other topic. [00:12:00] 
 [00:12:00] Darine: Yeah. That's a, that's, yeah. 
 [00:12:01] Darine: I'm like, that's a really good topic, but that's 
 [00:12:03] Suzanne: kind of, it's all the same. There's so many things to consider that people are just looking at Instagram, TikTok, say, I want to do that for a living. And they're not thinking there's so much about this industry that this is a prime example. You're not realizing. 
 [00:12:18] Suzanne: Okay. Yeah. 
 [00:12:19] Darine: Yeah, this would be unfortunate for both. Being kind of in like, I don't know, people are on Reddit like joining a aesthetics subgroup or just keeping in the know of knowing what are some things that people are encountering. Because a lot of times you might not encounter it yourself, so therefore you wouldn't think about it. 
 [00:12:39] Darine: But that doesn't mean it wouldn't happen to you at some point. So just keeping your, whatever the saying is, like your finger on the pulse of what's going on, just knowing what are the issues, what are other people experiencing, their concerns, and how can you mitigate that in, in your approach. I recently had booked a [00:13:00] manicure, pedicure, and I reached out to the nail tech. 
 [00:13:05] Darine: She doesn't have any other form of booking than either DMing on Instagram or text messaging. So I DMed her. I'm like, oh, I need a manicure, pedicure, and it's for the week of whatever. And then so she replied, oh, is it, do you want gel polish? Like a clarifying, you know, clarifying message. So I wonder if like when it's talking about if this was a Brazilian service that I was booking, maybe you have a pre written out set of questions that you have ready to ask. Sure. Yeah, I could do it. Is it male or female anatomy? Is it, you know, like lay them out so you don't have to think of them on the spot every time. And it's just like a, you can even use saved responses or whatever in Instagram, but having it in your notes on your phone, thinking of ways that you can answer and then thinking of like, a prepackaged message. 
 [00:13:56] Darine: If you don't offer a service, how can you say it in [00:14:00] the best, most professional way, and respectful of the other person, and then maybe you already know somebody, and then you have that agreement with the person. Instead of saying, I can refer you to somebody, just say, you know what, I went back to that article, and I also think the way she said the referral, you're right, because she did refer them, but she referred them to somebody who does what does that say? 
 [00:14:22] Suzanne: Oh, yes, I know, I think I read that too. 
 [00:14:25] Darine: Let me do, oh yeah I think she, I just wanna get the wording right 'cause I think the way she referred the client was also a little bit like, huh. Oh, she said I offer to help her find a professional who specializing in waxing for trans clients, but she was understandably upset. I just think like I, the. You are self identifying her, you're identifying her for herself. 
 [00:14:49] Darine: I would just have offered to refer to somebody who does waxing for male anatomy. Like then it's not you, like it's not an identity you've pushed on a person, right? So I think it's [00:15:00] very important the way that you word your your everything. The way that you're saying, and because it could be well intentioned, but, I'm sure it 
 [00:15:09] Suzanne: was for sure, but 
 [00:15:11] Darine: of course, but you also have to understand that person has probably experienced a lot of discrimination and hate and attack. 
 [00:15:20] Darine: So maybe they are just coming from a more defensive space. And it's going to trigger, 
 [00:15:25] Suzanne: right? 
 [00:15:26] Darine: Of course, right? Yeah. Yeah. So having pre pre packaged messaging that you've had time to think about helps you so you don't have to think on the spot. 
 [00:15:34] Suzanne: You know I referred to someone I said do you know Google, do you have a gmail account, why don't you just do forms, and then you can just send a link and it's pre done for you. 
 [00:15:42] Suzanne: And then you have it clear how you want to write it out. Or yes, you can screenshot your message or whatever your notes that you have. But if you don't want to sit on your phone and write it all out, like maybe you have Google forms and you have a few of them. And one is for Brazilian waxing. And in there, you can have the two questions too. 
 [00:15:59] Suzanne: Is this a [00:16:00] female anatomy, Brazilian waxing? Is this a male anatomy, Brazilian waxing? Unfortunately, people go by names as well. You can't go by names. Yeah. Well, I remember like growing up, it's like Dana is Dana male or female anatomy, I'll say. Right. I don't know. But right. So you don't know who the person is. 
 [00:16:21] Suzanne: And in this day and age, you can't go by someone's name either. And think you're automatically assuming like, you know what it stands for assume, right? Have you guys ever written that out? Write it out. Write it out right now if you don't know what it is. And then put a little slash after the S's and then one after the U and see what it says. 
 [00:16:42] Darine: Have you ever had a good dream? Oh, I know it. I say it all the time. Yeah. I wonder if there's something on the intake form that can be, I just thought of that. Like, is there something on your intake form? Cause this person, did they have an intake form? That's what I'm thinking about intake forms. I've never seen one that had [00:17:00] where you identify whether you have male or female anatomy. 
 [00:17:03] Darine: So I think that maybe that's something to consider, but I mean, that's not important if you're doing a facial on somebody. So I think that's, and 
 [00:17:10] Suzanne: that's 
 [00:17:10] Darine: why 
 [00:17:11] Suzanne: I was saying the form should identify the, the contraindications. I like the whole thing, not just. One question, male or female? No, you present it professionally, like it's an intake form. 
 [00:17:24] Suzanne: Yeah. Then you have time to review it. Because it's no different than someone coming in and saying, well, I didn't know that. So you want to prevent, oh, well, I've been on Accutane. I didn't know I couldn't come in. Now you've wasted your time and their time, which is terrible. Right. So you it's, it's a no win for nobody that way. 
 [00:17:41] Suzanne: So I think if they, if you add it to your intake form would be really important. And if you're not doing intake form, it's really simple to do just Google. 
 [00:17:50] Darine: Yeah. AI it. Totally. 
 [00:17:53] Suzanne: Right. 
 [00:17:53] Darine: Yeah. We can't have an episode where I don't talk about. 
 [00:17:57] Suzanne: I'm wondering if there's anyone else out there that. [00:18:00] would like to share their experiences. 
 [00:18:01] Suzanne: I wonder if we shouldn't have like a, an episode live and, and talk to people and see if we can discuss some ideas to help others through this, because it can be really uncomfortable and they don't know how to deal with it. And we understand that completely. So if you're interested in that, let us know, we'd be more than happy to set that up and just do like a little live session and. 
 [00:18:24] Suzanne: And come with your questions and we can happily discuss and hopefully help through the situation. So, 
 [00:18:30] Darine: yeah. Absolutely. That's awesome. Well, this was the short and sweet episode. I think we will be back. I know we will be back next week with another episode. Thanks so much for listening.