Darine: [00:00:00] Welcome to this week's episode of Beauty Babble. Today we're talking about a powerhouse ingredient that I'm sure everyone knows well, vitamin C. Suzanne and I are joined by Tera, the founder of Beauty Cult Canada, to chat a little bit more about this amazing ingredient. Hi Suzanne. Hi Tera. Hi.
Tera: So vitamin C, topic of the day. 
Suzanne: Yes, I mean it's everywhere. And everything everyone's I've got my vitamin C. I got my vitamin C, but we thought we should dive into something a little more detailed to what type of vitamin C or the derivative of vitamin C is used in skincare. And Tera is here because she does amazing research and she dives into deep, deep, deep.
So we wanted her to talk about it today. 
Tera: Well, in skincare, you keep finding all these differences in products and everyone's like, well, which one works better? Which one works better? I think all the research that the formulators put in [00:01:00] to, to get the formulations just right, to make their product work good for what they want it to work for.
Is a good indication, but that's what sends me down the rabbit hole. It's like, why is that in there? Why is that? Why does it turn out this much? 
Darine: So why don't you kick us off by like telling us what are the different types? Because if our listeners don't know, there are different types of vitamin C and not all are, you know, equally as efficient.
So maybe if you can tell us the different types and then go into each one. 
Tera: Yeah, well, most have L ascorbic acid in it, and partly is because it's naturally found in our skin, it's naturally occurring in our skin, so that one has a good affinity. Although when they're manufacturing it, it tends to be unstable, so in some, it says that it could oxidize before you even get it to your skin.
In the transport of [00:02:00] it from the package to your, to your face. It might not have any use. So that's part of the formulation is trying to make it stable. So it isn't oxidizing on the surface of the skin before it has some benefits and then different carriers. And of course, pH, which most manufacturers are a little bit secret about the, the pH of the product.
So that's part of what goes into it when they're researching and some of the ingredients. So with some products, I always wonder like, Oh, why, why isn't it just straight up? Like, why isn't it just a hundred percent of one thing? Well, that's. Part of it, like they say with all ascorbic acid that you wanna have maybe a percent higher than 8%, but no more than 20%.
But that being said, we have a product that has more than 20% in it. And that's the, the oxidative issue or whatever. So it. They must [00:03:00] have made it so that with 25%, it's still, it's still stable enough not to oxidize before you get it to your face or lots of times when they're that high of a percent, they're in a dark bottle and you have to not shake it up.
It has to be, it's good if you keep it at a certain temperature. Glass bottle, yeah. And the 
Darine: color of it is, is different too, right? 
Tera: Yeah, so, we've had people say, Oh, I just love it, it gives my face really nice glow. And they're putting it on too thick than what can actually penetrate. And then, yes, it is oxidizing on the surface of the skin, so they're actually wasting their product.
And just this morning, I thought, oh, I'll just review a few things. And it's actually recommended that you apply your vitamin C every 8 hours. That because it's anti free radical, and so if you keep applying it. It's going to help ward off like environmental stresses and pollution, or [00:04:00] use smoke, or have bad habits, or whatever.
It's going to help aid. I always tell people that it's going to strengthen your defense barrier, is kind of how I see it, but I read Today that it's, it's like an armor. So similar to what I would say, but yeah, it's like an armor for your skin. And, and I think that at any age that's the one thing that people could be using because it is strengthening your defense system that you don't just wait to use that product once you're got more mature skin or for mature clients.
Although that's when, you know, they need it maybe more than young people, but but yeah, at any age You think, like, when you're going through hormonal changes in your teens or early 20s or even later in life menopause or whatever, and you could have post acneic superficial discoloration or, or, like, just that you know, when your, when your skin's healing, that vitamin C is going to help.
Speed up that [00:05:00] action and even the skin tone quicker for any kind of, I mean, if you've got a nick or a cut or whatever, little vitamin C on there is gonna The whole process, like I said, it's strengthening your defense system and making everything stronger. I, if you only put it on one time a day, I usually say in the morning because it helps reduce solar damage too.
So having it on during the day and under your sunscreen, I think if you just did it one time a day, that would be the best time. Although at night is when you're. barrier kind of shuts down so lots of things penetrate better. So at night is a good time too. Like I said, they recommend every eight hours.
So it's just at night when you're having mature skin, sometimes you're using other things like vitamin A or Yeah, other things that make everything. Yeah, everything at night that you're going [00:06:00] on. Yeah. 
Darine: I think the other day when we chatted about this briefly, you talked about percentage and that having a higher percentage isn't necessarily better.
And maybe you were getting to that, but I was getting a little excited. So can you talk a little bit about Yeah, so like I 
Tera: said, they, usually they recommend not having more than 20%, but we have a product that does have 25 percent in it. And again, it would be in the manufacturing and the formulations, but other brands don't say what the percentage is, but they have other ingredients in there too that will help drive that vitamin C into the skin at a different rate.
In a different way than and I remember years ago, I went into a place and they said, It's the highest concentration of vitamin C that you can get on the market. Like, you need this product. It's only, I think it was like 300 and, [00:07:00] and She just raved on and on and I'm, I was thinking it's, is it even gonna work as well as another product because it's so concentrated and there's only so much that your skin can do with it.
Like I said, it could oxidize on the surface. So how it was formulated, I didn't know, but it was very expensive. She obviously hadn't researched vitamin C as much as I had. And I was like, Oh, that's. Probably not a selling feature, to be saying 
Suzanne: that. How it's marketed, right? That's a big thing that they do out there.
That's what they teach them about the product. They're only going to give them a little bit of it. Information until you get someone like, you know, someone in the beauty industry that has a passion to dive in deeper and go down that rabbit hole, as you said. 
Tera: Mm 
Suzanne: hmm. Right? And then, 
Tera: Years ago, we were neighboured up beside a, A company that said, oh, they had the [00:08:00] best vitamin C because it was in an oil carrier and that helped stabilize it.
And then we have a product that's a night concentrate and it's in an oil. And I'm like, huh, maybe there is something to that. Having your vitamin C in an oil base for nighttime and a water base for daytime. So there's lots, lots of options on the market. 
Darine: And I think that's, you know, not to toot our own horn, but that's kind of why we talk about ingredients because there is a lot of marketing out there.
So I think as the esthetician using the product, take it upon yourself to really understand the ingredients and kind of peel back that those marketing terms, because your brand could have a really amazing form of vitamin C, they might not be marketing it in that specific way. So kind of taking the initiative a little bit.
Tera: And I did, like when we first got into the industry, I was kind of hung up on percentages. Everyone kept saying, well, how much [00:09:00] retinol is in there? How much, what's the percentages? What's the percentages? And when, when companies wouldn't say what the pH and the percentages and stuff, I realized that most estheticians People in the industry aren't chemists, like they, the combination of products together is what's going to make them more effective, it's not based on what the percentages are.
And I remember asking at the lab in France and saying, well, You know, this ingredient is lower on the list than I would like to see it on the ingredient list because that's what's going to tell you about concentration and they said, there's only so much that your skin can absorb and this is what that where we source the raw ingredients from this is the recommended dosage that will most benefit your skin.
Huh. I had never thought about that before. And that [00:10:00] old 
Suzanne: thing of more is not better. 
Tera: It's not better. Yeah. Like you even think like everyone's supposed to drink water, drink water, drink water. And if you're dehydrated and you're drinking straight up water, you can disrupt your electrolytes. Like, again, more isn't better.
There's, there is a 
Suzanne: balance. 
Tera: Yeah, a method to the madness and every, every aspect, 
Darine: unless we're talking about money, maybe more is better than 
Tera: throwing that out there. And then you can buy more vitamin C products.
But yeah, and then the other thing too, is why at a young age, start using it. It protects your collagen. And it will actually help boost or increase your collagen production too. So, you're going to protect it when you're young and you're going to boost it when you get older. And then, again, like wound healing and environmental stresses.
We're always saying our environment is getting more and more polluted. All the things, we're not [00:11:00] all living in nature. Most of us are in urban centers. So 
Suzanne: And we're almost, I think majority are on a device or, or near a device. So you've got the light, 
Tera: the blue light, the blue light. Yeah. So, yeah, it's 
Darine: I think you, you also said something.
I was trying to find it because you talked about. One of the Bernard Cassier products that has the vitamin C, but also with white tea, is it? And then when I was doing like research on, like on the side for this, I, that was one of the things I had seen about vitamin C being better absorbed when it's combined with white tea, and I'm like, Oh, but I can't find the website right now.
But I was like, that's when I told him, okay, maybe Tera should just come talk about this because I, there's so many nuanced little things. 
Tera: Yeah. And then there's other, sometimes they put other acids like malic acid or ferulic acid or other things that will help [00:12:00] in a combination of them, like white tea or whatever.
That's why I said the formulations are so important that You don't get hung up on the percentages or the pHs or whatever because they've done the research to make them the most effective that they can be competitive on the market. And when you're using a professional product and when it's been recommended, it's by a professional, it's not It's like, not just the, the customer needs to have faith that that product's going to do what they say it do, but the, the esthetician's livelihood is based on that if you recommend that to somebody, it's going to work for them.
And then the other thing too is the, that there's no reactions to it because that's another thing when you go over 20%, the chance of irritating the skin. There's higher chance of it. It's more [00:13:00] acidic. We don't know. Not everyone says what the pH is. And when you're sell, you know, when your livelihood is based on it, you don't want to have 10 percent of your customers having a bad reaction to the product.
So. There's always that that's taken into consideration too. And then and then so being effective and then having good results without having, without, without having those irritations or allergic reactions, most products are thoroughly tested and then two, three years process to get them to make sure that they're regulated properly for being sold on the market.
And then. Usually they have them sitting somewhere in the sun and somewhere in the heat and the cold to see that they're going to be stable the whole time that they're on the shelf because products that are sold need to have a two to three year shelf [00:14:00] life without anything, you know, being, like, even for bacteria or whatever in them, they need to be stable that they're not going to all of a sudden rot while they're sitting in there.
Bathroom counter, whatever. 
Darine: Or in your back treatment room. Yeah. Speaking of like, retailing to clients, I'm thinking of, you know, I always put myself in those shoes, and I'm like, okay, well, I want to use some, we did an episode on Niacinamide, I'm like, I want to use that, now I want to use vitamin C. So there's a, There's a limit to how much you can use, but there's so many great ingredients.
But when I hear you talk Although 
Tera: you looked at my cabinet. Yeah, I was going to say, I'm trying to do everything. 
Darine: No, I hear you. But I think like for estheticians, if you think about like maybe seasonally changing the recommendations, like maybe now is a really good time to get somebody on vitamin C to get that like boost in their skin.
Yeah, exactly. Finding ways to 
Tera: We're going to be in the sun more, now the weather's changing. [00:15:00] People are going to be outside more, and this is helping with, you know, your, your skin. 
Suzanne: Your armor, 
Tera: yeah, your armor to protect you from the sun so that your skin can deal with it. 
Suzanne: I know there's lots of things on like, I mean between the three of us if we put our, if we put our cabinets together Oh good Lord I can imagine what we have.
But and we get that we understand that so how do you even. Determine where do you begin with clients, right? I think it, you first got to go back to the goal of your client. What's the optimum goal for your client and then decide from there. And that's one of the things I always did was a seasonal change for them.
Your body, it's like having, you know, chicken and broccoli and potatoes every day of your life now, cause it's good for you. Your body's going to get used to it. It's not going to get the nutrients that it receives from other vegetables or other protein sources. That, and the skin is the same way, right?
So you want to be almost changing it up. I wouldn't say all the time, but I think seasonally is a great It's a great way to look at [00:16:00] it or every three months and then it does take work on your part as a professional to help guide your client into this. And if you, I don't know, I always found it fun creating these like programs, I guess you could say it's a program regime for their skin.
Because yeah, you just said it, there's so many things like, what do you even do? And there's times I'm sitting there going, God, what do I need to do now? Like, so then I'm like, okay, wait, just when I'm halfway through a jar. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I change it. So that's my kind of way of thinking like a retail size halfway through.
Maybe that's the time to change it or add something or, you know, that type of idea. So I know it can be overwhelming in this day and age. Cause I mean, you look at social media and the trends that are out there and coming and going, and how do you help your clients out, but I think if you sit down, think about the goal of your client and discuss it with your client.
And have a program set up for the year. This is what I think you should do. You know, you're 30 years old. [00:17:00] This is what you need. Your environment, your whatever. You're 40 years old. This is what you need. Your environment, your hormones, whatever it may be, right? And just keep going every decade idea I think is maybe a way to break it down.
If it makes it easier. 
Darine: Yeah, that makes sense. Cause really, although, like I want all the ingredients all the time. Yeah. 
Suzanne: I know people say, Oh, just put, you know, use your red light therapy every day. Yeah. Yeah, I know that's great, but it doesn't, it doesn't 
Tera: make 
Suzanne: your serum, your vitamin C serum, 
Tera: like it works 150 times better, 
Suzanne: but it's, you know, to do everything all the time.
So understand that if you sit down and maybe that's a, maybe that's another discussion we could do is how to, how do you even goal plan? your clients into a regime, right? 
Darine: I think, you know what, I think when you bring up red light, I think from now on we need to record the podcast while we're all wearing our red light masks, because I always have a great idea until we talk about it.
I'm like thinking I [00:18:00] can see it sitting by my bed. I'm like, dang it. It's called habit stacking. So you got to do things on top of each other. 
Suzanne: Yeah. 
Tera: Right. Completely. Because yeah, my whole goal to set my alarm 20 minutes early and turn my mask on. 
Suzanne: How's that going? 
Tera: Yeah, it's not. Yeah. 
Suzanne: Exactly. 
Darine: I know you literally I have it right by my 
Suzanne: bed, so I'm all ready.
The intentions are Well, mine's 
Darine: by my bed too, because I have that idea too. But I know you you guys sometimes walk around the office with your red light mask on. 
Tera: Well, I've got these new style in and they're a little bit smaller and easier to walk around in. So we'll have to give it a shot. Yeah, I had it 
Suzanne: because I had a treatment done and I was like lit up red.
I was like, Ooh boy. And I had to jump online to teach. So I was like, maybe I can calm this down again. It wasn't long enough, but later that evening, I, after dinner, I put it on and I did the full 20 minutes. And even my husband's like, wow, that's like [00:19:00] gone. How does that work? And I said, it, I'm telling you, it's amazing.
It's 
Tera: amazing that it can work 
Suzanne: anyway. See, it drives in your ingredients. That's the other side, 
Darine: like the vitamin C. We do have an episode on red light therapy. Listeners can go back and I can't remember which. Yes, that's right. 
Suzanne: I think you talked about that one too, Tera. 
Darine: Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. Is there anything else that we need to add about vitamin C?
I don't know. Other than use it? 
Tera: Yeah, it prevents scurvy, you know, just in case.
Suzanne: I think out there, if you're listening to this, that maybe if you don't know where to start, ask your product line, the educator there or your distributor and, and dive in deep because they should have those answers for you. And help you determine, you know, what is it actually in your hands already?
Probably. 
Tera: Yeah. I think 
Suzanne: that's another part that people don't realize. 
Tera: What you have already that maybe vitamin C might be the thing that helps make what you have already work better. To get the results. Or [00:20:00] you, 
Suzanne: what do you add with that product line that you're currently carrying? Is there one that Would be an affinity to that product line.
You can't just go and buy one, like you really do need to know your ingredients. Because it's usually 
Tera: a serum, so you're putting it underneath your moisturizer, your sunscreen, or whatever. 
Suzanne: Or at night, maybe on its own, could be okay for you, 
Tera: right? The oil. 
Suzanne: Yes, you could do that one at night, even with a different product line, just don't mix them.
Yeah.
Awesome. 
Darine: Well, I think this was very helpful and informative. I'm going to run and put some vitamin C on. Thanks so much everyone for listening and we'll be back next week.