Darine: [00:00:00] Welcome to Beauty Babble. We're doing another ingredient episode today. More specifically, we're talking about urea. And we're joined by Tara MacIver, founder of Beauty Cult Canada. Hi, Suzanne. Hi, Tara. 
Tera: Hi. 
Darine: Thanks for joining us today, Tera. Suzanne, tell us how we got into talking about this ingredient in specific to kick 
Suzanne: us off.
Well, as a daily thing that happens around beauty cult is Tara and I get into these discussions all the time. And. Just out of that discussion, she brought this up, how it came across. And I'll let Tara dive into more of the details of it, but I said, you know, I think these are things that we should be telling people more about because unfortunately we can just go online and buy products and not realize.
It could be detrimental to our clients because it's actually not available in Canada. We'll speak for Canada and even some parts of around the world too, right? So it's knowing [00:01:00] the differences in your ingredients and we, you know, I keep, you know, talking about know your ingredients, know your brand, who, what they represent is a huge part of it.
And I think that's what came down to Tara and I, and I said to Tara, like you should come on and talk to us. And then I told Doreen and I, and Doreen said, yes, great idea. 
Darine: And this is our second episode where we're talking about ingredients and I think we're going to be making this a regular feature.
We'll talk about an ingredient, so if any of our listeners have an ingredient that they've come across or one that they're curious about let us know and we can include that in our ingredient episodes. 
Suzanne: Yes, I think that's a great idea. So Tara and I were chatting one day and. Tara does a lot of research.
So when you hear a word Tara, it usually takes you into this, a depth of learning. A spiral of opening this and learning this and that. And I mean, thank God you do it because as [00:02:00] you know, you do import and bring in products into Canada and you have to also be due diligent in your part as a business owner that it's legal in Canada or when it becomes illegal.
in Canada. There's both sides to that, right? So yeah, start us off with this amazing 
Tera: ingredient. Well, I'm always curious with some ingredients that are in skincare, Health Canada will restrict how much is used in a product. So then that triggers down where you fall down the rabbit hole of starting to research and then I always like to look at things from like how a chemist would see it as well as an esthetician or a dermatologist or a doctor or whatever from all the different angles to see.
Why there might be the controversy, controversy with something and so then when you do that when you start to see like how a chemist looks at it in, in the formulation, and [00:03:00] when we first got into the skincare I would always try to relate lots of ingredients are food related where you can like vitamin C or different super fruits or something that's in food but this is one of those ones that's not.
And so the initial thing is what people think of when they hear ARIA is Back when the war was on and soldiers were hiking through trenches and their feet were getting fungus or, I don't know, like foot rot or whatever it was, and they were told to pee on their feet to try to help cure it. And so when people hear urea, they think pee.
But it actually is not Yeah, made from urine it is usually a synthetic ingredient. And from a chemist perspective, there is a few different forms of it and two of them being stabilizers or preservatives and one of them being more for the humectant [00:04:00] properties of it. And so as soon as I started reading that, that there was more than one form of it and why it was restricted.
The preservative form is more of an exfoliant and so it's restricted because how, how much you're going to exfoliate, it would be like a chemical peel almost, whereas the humectant part of it is probably more expensive as an ingredient. And that's usually the part, the part of. The ingredient that we would want in certain products, so is to be able to help the skin hold the moisture, hold moisture, which is all these star ingredients hyaluronic acid or sodium hyaluronate, all these ingredients to help our skin hold moisture is, And this is usually the part that we're looking for and the part that's probably more expensive in an ingredient.
So when, as soon as this came up, I started scanning all of our products to [00:05:00] see which form of the urea was in them. And luckily for us, the ingredients that, the products that we had that had it was the humectant form, not just the stabilizing form. 
Darine: I have a question for you. How do you know what the difference between the two forms when you're looking at your ingredients?
Tera: So when you're looking at your ingredient list, first of all, you're going to look to see how high up on the ingredient list. That's going to help give you, like, if it's got more, if it's the next ingredient right after water, chances are it's, there's a lot of it in there, and if it's lower on, on the ingredient list, then probably it's meeting it's job and it's not going to be overly exfoliating or usually there's other ingredients in there that the humectant part of the urea is driving into the skin.
So they kind of [00:06:00] work together, so it's, that's where the chemists come in, that's where the formulations are, are worked, but and then I'm not going to read all the names out, because I will butcher them, but 
Darine: I can help you out. Is it the, the one, the hydroxyethylurea, that's the one that's the humectant, right?
Tera: Yes. Yes. So right there is a good indication because hydro is at the beginning of it to try to remember that that's the one that's going to help with water. And then the other forms are going to be more antimicrobial. So those are going to help stabilize. Those are more of a preservative form of it. And with that, they help.
Yes, they're good at preventing bacteria and mold and yeast or whatever from forming in the product, but they can also, in too high of a, of a content in the product, can be overly exfoliating. So somebody who's already has skin [00:07:00] sensitivities, it might be too much for them. For them. Also, which is why Health Canada limits the amount that's allowed in product.
Suzanne: Yeah. And because it's more of a stabilizing preservative, then it's that, that other side that people should look at. It's a preservative, which isn't a good one to be using for us as humans, because our skin, as we know, absorbs everything. So, you know, it's toxic, even if it's a small amount. 
Tera: So, so that's even like, so thinking of that as a preservative and then other preservatives are parabens.
And if you listen to a chemist's version of having a paraben in a product, which now because of trends and consumer, consumer watchdogs, I guess, because it's consumers who are buying things that started not wanting parabens in their products, so chemists started to take them out. But in small amounts they, they [00:08:00] weren't.
like disruptors. The molecules in a more actually too big to be absorbed in ways that people thought they were. And they kind of dissipate on the surface of the skin, but protect the product. So there's different ways of looking at it. But so Urea is in too high of a quantity, the stabilizers defeat the purpose of what they're in the product for.
And I think you also 
Suzanne: hit it on the, the head that it'll come to cost. And a lot of, a lot of clients, if they can, I mean, we see it in many industries, we'll say, where they are changing the ingredients, they're changing it in many ways to cut back the costs. And I think that's why it's so crucial that we're trying to stay on top of this and keep learning.
And, and well, that's why we're doing this podcast is to try to share this information. So as you mentioned before, 
Tera: right. Yeah. And then having cause Suzanne and I recently visited France and having [00:09:00] a lab there with specialists where you can kind of ask them, you know, why is there only this much of this product?
Like it's so low on the ingredient list. And when the response is, you know, there's only so much the skin can absorb and that is the, that is the advice of, of the biochemists and the chemists in order for the best penetration into the skin. Like the rest would be overkill. So it's not, it's not going to do anything.
There's only so much that can be beneficial or penetrate. 
Suzanne: And that's when they, when you look at ingredients and they say, Oh, this is really great because it has so much of this. But in the end, they know the chemists know, as you said, the researchers, and if they've done their job, they know only a certain percentage is going to get absorbed by the skin too.
So that could be a good thing or a bad thing, right? Like how we look at ingredients. I mean, we can start targeting a lot more ingredients on that [00:10:00] topic of. When you see them advertising their products to be at a certain percentage. Like be the most 
Tera: potent. Yeah. Or the most. It's not going to do. 
Suzanne: Well, SPF is one.
Not to, I'm not talking down to SPFs at all. They're amazing. But what's the difference between the 50 and 60 and the 75? Like, you know, I think that's a good one. Yeah, it's just, it's a few minutes more. So I think that's a good way for people to understand the importance of ingredients and how it can affect overall.
So more is not always better. It's just, it could be a negative thing, or it could be, it's not making a big difference. And they're going to charge you a lot more for it because 
Tera: It sounds like a high concentration, so it's more expensive to make, but it's, it could be a waste. Yeah, 
Suzanne: exactly. Yeah. 
Darine: With urea, is that in all kinds of products or is it just specifically like more in skincare?
Or is there something like, I think we were talking about like some products in foot care. So it can be [00:11:00] across the board, really? So estheticians can just check any product line they have to look at their 
Tera: ingredients? So that's the thing. If there's no ingredients on your packaging, you should not be putting it on your skin.
With all the brands that we use, there's There's a trust in the manufacturer for guaranteeing that what they're putting on the packaging is what's actually in there. And they have a longevity in the industry to be trustworthy, I guess. And I know access to online shopping, if you're not seeing what's in there, You shouldn't be buying it.
Well, lots of companies will just say the three star ingredients. Yeah. Actually I was approached by a, you know, those little kiosks in a high traffic area, such as a mall or whatever. [00:12:00] And they were telling, trying to sell, sell me or give me a sample of something that had diamonds. Diamonds was the main thing that they were saying was in and how beneficial it was.
The number one ingredient was mineral oil. That is a petroleum byproduct. Cheapest, cheapest ingredient to put in a product. So it doesn't matter how much diamond it's, that product's going to clog your pores. It's not going to benefit you. In fact, it could be carcinogenic. Who knows where they got their raw ingredients from?
And will 
Suzanne: it even absorb if they have mineral oil with all the other ingredients? 
Tera: So it doesn't matter what they say is in it. It's not, it's not going to benefit you very much. So that, that's the thing. And so I kindly handed them back the sample and said, no, this isn't for me. [00:13:00] 
Darine: Yeah, that's a good reminder though, too, as professional aestheticians when they're talking to their clients, because their clients have access to all the products online as well.
They're going to be walking through the mall, encountering the kiosks of products as well, and we've talked about this before. Our job as part of doing your treatment is to also educate on why we're choosing the products we're choosing and if you don't want to, you know, if your client doesn't want to use what you have, like, I would usually just, okay, well, look for this or, you know, just to kind of make them more aware of actually checking ingredients as well.
Tera: Yeah, cause that's, that's one thing we get calls all the time, you know, do we carry this brand? Could we bring this brand in? And, yeah, and I'll say, well, you know, I'll look and see, you know, if, if it's something good that you should be using on the skin and. Probably 50 percent of the time. It's [00:14:00] not that great.
For them, there's alternatives that would be better. And one of my, you know, going back to, you know, educating your client, one of my best scenarios that I, I don't know where I got it from, but I think especially for young people, if you went to buy a cell phone, and, The salesperson said, this is how you turn the phone on.
Here's the button. This is how you turn it on. And they couldn't tell you anything else about the phone.
Would you want to buy that phone? Like if they, you know. If that's their job and they can't tell you what options does the phone have, what, you know, that's the same with an esthetician. If you're just going to tell them, Oh yeah, you just put this on morning and night and you can't give them any other information.
You're, it's, you're going to have a hard time. 
Darine: Yeah, you're not doing a good job really. 
Suzanne: Well in this day and age, like you need to [00:15:00] step it up because your clients are way more knowledgeable. Not saying they weren't before, it's just, I don't think it was out there for them to find it as easily, and now people are very curious, and they want to learn more, and they care about their health, and 
Tera: what are they putting on their skin.
We have access to everything, and with that, access to everything, and what you thought at one time, before they started selling the brand online, could have been one thing, and then when they start producing for mass market, it becomes something completely different, so you should compare. When you were buying it from an individual, that ingredient list, compared to when it's starting to be sold on a mass scale, does the ingredient list still look the same?
Are those ingredients still in the same order on that list? Because when you're producing for global market and a generalized population where it's not going to disrupt in the same way that a [00:16:00] professional product would, That mass production is more generalized, so it's more not to upset the skin one way or another.
And what you 
Suzanne: mean by mass production is that it's available all over the place. Not that a company is, is global, but it's how it's being distributed. And where's 
Tera: the control of it, right? Right, because when you walk into a place and you're not buying from somebody who has experience in the industry that's helping you, making recommendations for you, most of the products aren't good.
So I'm, I have dry skin. Most of the products that I could buy over the counter aren't gonna disrupt that too much. If I'm buying something for oily skin from a professional and I have dry skin, it's going to, within a week, I'm going to be feeling it. Exactly. Yeah, we're going to have that dry skin, kind of like after the chemical peel I had a week ago.[00:17:00] 
Like, finally have got rid of that dryness. Yeah, but that was on purpose. I think that we, 
Darine: we did an episode about this too, where we talked a little bit more about it. And it was, you know, we called it retail giants because when the product goes into retail stores, that's when it, it's no longer just professional.
So for any of our listeners, they can go back. It's in season one, episode 13, where we really dive a little deeper into, you know, professional product versus retail. Giants and the products you can purchase there. 
Suzanne: We'll have those notes of the names below, right? Terrine, you'll have those in there. And then this way people can look for it and know what to look for.
And if you have questions, reach out to your brand. They should be able to give you this information as well. And, or if you have the manual of your brand, you can easily look through all the ingredients cause it should be in your [00:18:00] hands as well. So there's the other thing. If they're not giving you all the details, that should be your first flag.
But if they're giving you everything and that's why it's trademarked and why it's protected and, and how you handle it and what you do with it and that's the brands will do is that's one of the big reasons why they want to protect 
Tera: it too. Going back to your area. Just a couple things that are pretty amazing about that ingredient when you're using the right part of it is it is supposed to help with your barrier function.
So it is. Usually for skin that could be compromised or, you know, irritated or like your feet, rough heels or whatever that it is, it does have the potential to help the barrier. And like I said, if they're using the right part, the humectant is going to help the hydrolytic barrier to hold moisture in a different way.
And,, If you're using the part that's the [00:19:00] exfoliating part, it could work almost like an acid, like salicylic or lactic, which is why Health Canada limits I think it's up to 10 percent in a product. And then it is, there was another thing about amino acids. Where is it? It was really interesting.
Suzanne: Like with urea or on its own because that's another ingredient we're going to know 
Tera: it works like sorry, they found a correlation between water content and amino acids. So, basically, the more dehydrated and dry the skin, the lower its share of dissolved amino acids. So, this is helping to strengthen that so that you're able to hold the moisture better.
Suzanne: Right. 
Tera: Cool. 
Suzanne: Well, that was interesting. Thanks, Tara, for joining us on this one. It's always helpful [00:20:00] and how much you dive into it. I know you're a wealth of knowledge that you, you do stand by your brands when you're bringing them in. And I think it's 
Tera: funny what you find, find interesting, I guess, and what you can do to try to help people.
I know doctors sometimes will prescribe ingredients with urea in it. And for eczema. patients. Some of them it is, doesn't work like it is supposed to work because it can be over exfoliating. So I do know that one of our business associates was hospitalized as a teen from a prescription of, of urea because it was too overly exfoliating for her skin.
So I can see how that rough patchy skin that you get when you have eczema, how, how A doctor would try to give you something to help take that off, but if it continues to exfoliate, it's going to be too much for the skin. And then and also not just for eczema [00:21:00] patients, but patients with autoimmune disorders, diabetic heart conditions.
So if you're not sure, should probably avoid it. Use something as an alternative. And that's for the exfoliant 
Darine: one, not the humectant. That's 
Tera: right. But I think You can see where, you know, for pedicures, like helping remove that dead skin, and even with an eczema patient, because sometimes, It's, it's a overactive flora on the surface of the skin and so you can think that maybe that exfoliation almost like like, like it would work like a lactic acid or something that it would help get rid of that rough skin, but if it continues to exfoliate if it's, if it's doesn't stop and hold the moisture.
If there's too much of that stabilizing, exfoliating portion of the [00:22:00] urea in it, it's gonna cause trauma to the skin. It's not gonna do what you think that it would do. And when you say 
Darine: continues to exfoliate, is that because you're continuing to apply the product or as it's on your skin? 
Tera: Well, I think some skin could, could handle it and some couldn't.
So and yeah, usually like in that type of setting, she was given a prescription and she was told how often during the day to put it on. And so the constant reapplication, and she was a teenager at the time. So it got to the point where it was almost like burns, I guess, on the skin because it just kept overly exfoliating.
I don't know if it would do it, I don't think it would do it one, like one time, like if you did it in a treatment. But I think that's why Health Canada steps in and, you know, reduces the chances of this happening, especially in our [00:23:00] industry. Sometimes you think, well, oh, that's not, you know, they only allow to 2 percent of this or 10 percent of that.
And if I just go down, you know, cross the border, buy it from online, I can get it. But in most situations, you'd be okay with it. But just takes that one, one skin that it's not okay with it. And you'd hate for you to be the reason that they ended up having to seek medical attention. Yeah. 
Suzanne: Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.
The rules 
Darine: are there for a reason. 
Tera: Yeah, sometimes it's frustrating because you think, Oh, I could get this done so much faster if I could, you know, have it in 30 percent or 40 percent in the product. But. Safety. Safety. Yeah. Especially when you're passing on your information onto somebody else. Those safety standards are good.[00:24:00] 
guard, I guess, for counterindications, bad things happening. When you're, when you're a professional, when, and it's not, you're not just using it on yourself. It's one thing to buy things and just use them on yourself when you're not sure about them, but it's another thing to tell somebody else to do it.
Absolutely. 
Darine: Well, I think this has been a very enlightening chat and we'll be back with more episodes on different types of ingredients. But thank you so much for joining us today.
Tara, we know you're busy. And we look forward to having you again on the show.