Welcome to this week's episode of Beauty Babble. Today, we're reviewing our recent visit to the Bota Bota Spa in Montreal. We're joined by my colleague and friend, Soni Dasmapatra. Soni is a passionate consultant, educator, and arts practitioner who uses yoga and somatics as pathways of self discovery, healing, and artistic creation.

And she's also a destination spa enthusiast. Welcome to the show, Soni. Thank you so much for joining us.  

Thanks so much for having me on the show. I'm excited to be here. 

 Just to kind of give a little bit of a background, you and I were in Montreal recently for work and you came up with the idea of going to the Bota Bota Spa and You have lots of good ideas but this has got to be your best. 

And you and I both went and we did different treatments and I thought it would be interesting to give a little bit of a review of our experience and what you liked and what you didn't. And I think during our our visit there I found out how many other destination spas you'd been to and so I think we're in for a very interesting and enlightening conversation. 

Oh my goodness, yes, I love the spa. I can't complain. I actually, my parents are from India, and I was born and raised in Canada. So a lot of like traditions that are sort of Ayurvedic based or based on how do we maintain holistic health come from, What we would say western spa traditions, but they're more based in holistic health, right?

So this is why I think that going to the spa is such a good thing for your health. And European nations, Asian nations, they south American, they all have different treatments that actually speak about longevity. If you go to the spa, 'cause of the way your lymphatic system gets drained, the way your blood circulation flows, the way your skin maintains elasticity, like these are all practices that you can incorporate. 

As part of a spa sort of space that can help you with health and wellness and sort of like long life, right? So yeah, so Bote Bota, oh my god, what can I say? So first of all, I love Montreal because it's beautiful, like old Montreal especially. So Bote Bota is a spa that's on a boat.  in Old Montreal Harbour and it's breathtaking because it's removed.

And I know during when you and I gone there, it was freezing cause it was winter. So we were like super cold, but when we walked in, it was so warm and inviting, right? Like the reception area, like was so interesting cause it was like the, the, it was in a boat format. So it was like, we were entering the boat actually.

You had to walk on the pier and walk up and And even it was just interesting the way it was set up and then we had to go downstairs to the dressing room to sort of like get our robes, our fluffy white amazing robes. Amazing. That's right. So I really felt like that welcoming ambience was amazing.

Because you walk in, it's not stressful, it's very chill.  Even though there were so many people there, you felt relaxed, right?  And then when we went down, there was no rush. We took our time. So I felt really nice about that. And it was really fascinating the way they had different areas in the boat. So there was a meditation area where it was overlooking the,  the river.

And they were like, these little, like, chairs. Like, these swinging chairs. And there was a room in French with a board. Like, you could hear the meditation from the sky. Right? And it was a circular space. And then of course there was a circuit. Because like I said, a lot of different cultures believe that if you go through a water circuit, your body will actually rejuvenate.

You know, so there's, there's a sauna, there's a hot tub, and there was a cold pool. And the hot tub during, oh my god, you and I were there, it was amazing because it was nighttime. The hot tub we were in overlooked old Montreal.  It was beautiful. Wow. How beautiful that was, right? So it wasn't just about the treatment, but it was also about the location and about what we were experiencing about that city.

My treatment was amazing. So I actually got a facial and a wrap, a body wrap.  And you know, it was like, we were, we were all waiting together in the, in the room, the waiting room. And it was very packed. The people were waiting at a certain time. And then all of a sudden the room was empty, because it, because in to their  respective quarters.

So that was interesting, too, because then it was quiet before I went in. But even though, 

even though it was packed, though, like you said, it was, there was an, an the air of calm and quiet. So there was people around, but everybody was, you know, very in the zone. Because I think they did a really good job of creating that  as soon as you walked in, I felt like I was in a different space.

It was from the moment you walk in the door and you're just kind of like transported to this whole, it's its own little world, basically. 

Yeah, that's so true. It's its own little world.  I, that's the thing, so each compartment we went to was a whole different experience. Yeah.  Like, it wasn't the same, and  there were four floors actually as well, which is fascinating because on the boat,  like to go to four different floors and to have four different experiences was really cool too.

Yeah, and I, I was so, I was, I didn't know what to expect because I've had body treatments before in South America and India.  Also in Banff, so, so I didn't know what, what, what the Montreal experience, oh and Toronto, so I wouldn't know what the Montreal experience would have been. I was deeming to be the same. 

But my, my esthetician was adorable. She was so nice, and she was like English or French, because obviously we were talking in English.  And she was really sweet, and she just wanted to make me feel comfortable, right? So from the beginning that I stepped in, like, it was all about my experience. Like, are you comfortable?

Is this warm enough? Is this, do you need this? And she very clearly explained what would happen in the treatment  because I was going to get a facial, I was going to get a dry brush, and I was going to get a wrap, right? And and the dry brushing was to prepare my body at the exfoliation to be able to put the wrap on for the hydration because it was a body mask. 

There was a shower in the room as well because after the exfoliation I have to take a shower. So she explained everything, which is really nice. And, she was like, oh, here's a g string or you can just choose to go naked whatever you're comfortable with So I was like, I'll just go naked because really I don't care So there was like this heated table with saran wrap on it because that was what's gonna be wrapped And then there was a little bit of  towels.

So yeah, so I just laid down and she came in because she had luck and then she came in and then she was like, well, are you comfortable? Yes. And then she started dry brushing and it was amazing because all the dead skin that I accumulated in Alberta because we're so dry.  

I 

totally came off and she's like, Oh, you're skin's so dry.

I'm like, I'm from Alberta. She's like, Oh, 

right. So it was funny. Yeah. And then, you know, what was really beautiful too was like, she kept on checking. Are you okay? Everything good. And then then we moved to the front part of the body and then she said, Do you want a breast massage? I'm like, yes, because I think that's like a really good way to like, release all the tension in my pecs and get that lymphatic flowing.

Oh my god, it was amazing, right? So after that, took a shower, then she put the mask on and then she rubbed me.  And now I understand why newborns love to be rubbed.  Cause you know when you're in the womb, you're all squishy, right? And then you come out, it's shocking, so you still want to be squishy. But the way that she wrapped me I was like, oh my god, this is so wonderful because you just transported to a different level of like inner well being, right?

Like, I don't, I can't even explain it. You have to experience it. And then while I was wrapped, she did a facial and it was so nice because she had this little  tool and she was doing acupressure points in my face too. So it was really beautiful. It was really nice. And  yeah, so overall, I can't, I don't even know how to explain it.

I just feel like I was well taken care of  constantly checking in to see if I was okay, like just that kind of service. anD then even the treatment itself was life changing. Like, I felt so much better after. And I posted a picture of me in my family WhatsApp group. Because I was just, oh, here, look, I'm in Montreal, I'm St.

Catharines. And then my cousin's like, Oh my God, you look so good. What did you do? I'm like, I went to the spa. 

So 

for her to recognize that I was like looking so awesome, maybe because I was in Montreal too. But I think the spa made a difference,  right? How was your treatment, Doreen? I know we had two different things, 

right? Yeah, I, so I did a massage. We both did the water circuit. I did a massage. And I had, for the first time, I never had a massage by like a male massage therapist.

So at first I was a little like, I was okay with it because they asked repeatedly over the phone, are you, do you, do you care what the gender of your massage therapist is? I said, I don't care. I just want a massage. I didn't care what it was. But that aside, I think I can. Same thing, like I was constantly being checked in with I found that the massage techniques that he used was just, it was so, I don't think I've ever had a massage where every single knot in my back was.

taken care of. Like, it was the best massage I've ever had. So, I think that to say life changing, totally agree. And it was, it was like a whole experience from the moment you put the robe on, it was, you were just in that, in the zone. And the room, I, what I loved the most, after I finished my massage, I got up and there was a little window.

It's like the little rooms on a ship. So, I was looking out the window. It was really, it was really 

cool. 

Well, it sounds amazing. I mean, and I think from what I'm hearing is,  you know, from your phone conversation,  right, of booking.  And then once you walked in,  it sounds like they did. I mean, it's always well thought out.

We know that side of it. It's part of their.  It's part of the whole experience. As you said, it wasn't just the service itself. It was  everything you guys detailed. I think every step you took  in, around, and then your service and when you were done, which I think that's one thing that you know, destination spas are uniquely they're unique in general, but they're, they definitely know  every aspect of that, what you experienced.

That's their goal  of whatever that is that they're trying to do, right? And.  You know, I, I mean, who is going to be opening Destination Spa these days? It's not, how old is Boda Boda? Has it been around for a long time?  Do we know? It's been a long time. Let me check. 

I think it's been, I know it's been around since like I first started with Beauty Cult and  they used to carry Bernard Cassier 

like years ago.

Yeah. So, I mean, they have a lot of experience. Behind them, which is amazing that they made it through, you know, the whole closures and all that. And now we're in a, in a different kind of place. I think too, that more and more people want to come into this industry and start in this industry with a passion.

Maybe that they have for. Lashes or, you know, waxing or facial or whatever it may be like you, you know, we had a chat beforehand like culturally is another aspect of that you want to bring your culture to this, which is sometimes not something we know about like. Unless you're very  aware of the different cultures and their regimes of what they do in this industry.

And the why behind it is so important. And I think we forget that. So I mean, I know for us locally in Edmonton here, there's quite a few. Well, there's a handful for sure of places. I haven't experienced myself, but I know, so you have mentioned, you know, a few places, but I think too, we have to look at like when we're, when we're bringing this and that's what brought the discussion up is how, how can you as an, you know, person, a service provider in this industry, a lot of it is just, you know, maybe you're a permanent makeup artist or a lash tech or, you know, waxing.

Only what are some things you think that person could do to bring this and are they missing something by not offering this?  And I feel they are, but everyone has their own ideas of how they want to run things. But the holistic side of wellness has grown so much and they're predicting it in the next two years to just be overtake.

I mean, even the medical spas are trying to work that way into the holistic side. And if people would just look at. Go search a few places and you'll see there's something in there that they're offering because they know that's a big part of it. As well, so I don't know there as an experience going into this, if you, what could you  maybe guide or give advice to, or suggest because you're a client, but you also have that holistic side to you.

What do 

you think you could 

suggest maybe for, you know, the person running their one room out of a hair salon.  What could they do in their place or their home like they have one room out of their home. One service type that a multi service offering, like there's our. This industry has changed a lot in the last few years for those, that type of way.

So not too many destination spas anymore getting built. They're usually been around for a long time.  

Yeah, that's a really good point. And actually, you know you've raised a really good point about sort of women's entrepreneurship and how do we understand  a situation and the beauty, like, sort of cult, the beauty cult, as a way to build capacity, build independence.

have an income. So for example, like I said, like you said, culturally. So because my parents are from India, I can remember very early, my mom took me waxing in Indian women's basements or sugaring or threading.  I never shaved because if you shave your hair goes back thicker, you get ingrowns, but we're always taught that if you wax or thread, it's different.

It's gentler on your skin, right? So, so the thing is that even in that context, too, like,  if you think about it, you go to this  Indie woman's house, and everybody calls them auntie, right?  Because that's cultural. They'll give you tea, even if they don't, like, that's just a cultural thing, right? So they make chai for you, you sit there, you drink your chai, and then there are other women who start gossiping in the room because this is part of that cultural piece, right?

And you feel like a million bucks, right? Like, because you're clean after, right? Like, you feel clean. I did at least. So I think that that's one thing that is interesting to also understand as part of Maybe coming to Canada, maybe having a different degree or career, not getting Canadian experience or accepted into the career that you want.

Then you have to pivot fast because you have to think about what you can do. And I think that because we have such a toolbox of beauty regimes in our culture, right? Like, like in India, hair spas are a huge thing because, you know, now hair oiling is so popular, right? When I was younger. It was so horrible, because if anybody oiled my hair, I would face so much discrimination at school, right?

Oh my god, this thing. Oh my god, what's in your hair? Oh my god, your hair is attacking me, right? So, and these things are very traditional in our culture to maintain, like, scalp health. Like, I don't know if you know, but shampoo actually is from India. And the British brought it, the Europeans brought it across the world, right?

So the traditional shampoo is actually called Chumpy.  And that's why it's jumpy shampoo, right? Like, it's aggressive. So there's this whole regime where you actually massage your scalp in all the different Ayurvedic and yoga points that, like, sort of generate hair growth, right? There are also a lot of yoga poses that you do to bring buds to your follicles so your hair growth will be, like, really healthy, right?

And there's a certain way to take care of your hair that makes it, like, Strong, like have good nutrients, and I don't know this, but one of the biggest exporters of hair is India, because one of the sacred ceremonies in the context of Hinduism is when you go to the temple, you offer your hair as an offering.

So the temples take all of that virgin hair that nothing's been done to, and translate it into extensions that go globally, right? So, so these are the things, too, that we need to understand about entrepreneurship and how markets run and how people are making money in different ways around holistic health and around, like, traditions that are grounded in like, thousand year old practices, right?

So I think that, that, that's the thing. Like, I definitely feel like when I go somewhere, even if it's to somebody's house, Which I've done sometimes, too. Like, just that welcoming aspect, right? Like, even if it's like, even if it's like in the basement or something, there's something welcoming because of the way the person greets you.

The way the person asks how you're doing. The way the person offers you something. Would you like something to drink? Like I just feel like that hospitality, it's a welcoming, right? I also go see this amazing Chilean woman, who's Canadian. But she's a nurse. And she actually does like all these like she also has beauty, like a beauty piece in her house as well.

But she does facials, and she does like microdermabrasion, and she does peels. But because she's a nurse, she knows, right? Oh my god, when I go see her, it's amazing, because I'm not in the salon, and it's not like clinical, per se. She makes this really beautiful ambiance, she has all this beautiful music playing, it's so healing.

And then, like she'll like do the whole treatment, but then while I'm resting with the mask in my face, she's like giving me a hand treatment, or she's giving me a massage in my collarbone to relax my shoulders, right? So it's not just the facial, but it's also like, Like how do we keep the facial going beyond right and and her her setup is so nice Like it's just in your house and you just walk in she puts her dogs away and it's really quiet I mean it's just playing and you can chat.

You don't have to chat  She wraps you up as well. So you're nice and warm. So just making sure and she'll ask you are you warm? Are you cold? Do you need something? So I think those are the things to look how do you regulate the body temperature because when you're working With your body in different ways different things happen for different people.

So how do you create a sense of?  Comfort and safety as well when you're a statistician offering resources, right? And that's how you will build your clientele because they will be like, oh my god, that was such a great treatment I want to come back.  It's so 

funny you say that because it's so true You I think you hit on a lot of points there Tony with the fact that the treatment was the treatment But it was everything around it  that made it the experience that they don't forget, that you don't forget, because you, I can see it when you're, I hear you when you're speaking of this, that it 

just, it sounds 

like, like, I want to go there because I want to experience what you experienced.

Because, you know, I mean, yes, you want a treatment, you want your skin to look, you know, you know, healthy, glowing, younger, maybe possibly wrinkle free would be a bonus, but everything else around it, because if people  understand a bit more, when you have that relaxation brought into your services of any kind, it does affect the neurological system, it does bring down the calmness, which affects the hormones and that's a whole other Conversation, I think, but  that's the side that why people speak the way they do is because they hit those points  that made you talk about everything again, the moment you walked in that door, it started the moment you walked in.

And I think that's the part that we need to in this industry is to remember that part, like, so many people are struggling trying to build their clientele. And they're focused on the service, the technical side, I think, too much, which is important because that's the whole thing, but now how do you bring this together and still honor yourself like you still need to honor yourself.

I'm not going to turn around and claim that I'm going to do, you know, the Indian traditions that you've been through because I have an experience and I don't know it, and it sounds like a big journey to go and undertake. Right, but it sounds very amazing. So why not travel the world. And find people in the different cultures that are offering these things. 

And then you can bring in the little things respectfully, right? And understand what, what's behind it all, maybe, would be beneficial too. But, yeah, that's interesting that you say, like, the nurse, okay, that sounds medical to me, but not once did you discuss that 

medical, technical side of things, right? And I 

think that's  a part of it, of everyone's journey.

And it's like a business industry, so. It's a tough time. There's only, we're saturated with many, many people around, you know, North America in general, doing this because they, it's lovely. I mean, who doesn't want to do the services and, and offer these things and have that flexibility and that, but. Yeah, I think there's a few, quite a few things we touched on today that hopefully will help  those listening in to,  you know,  how do I say it, what makes you unique  in your place, not just your service, it's, it's all of it, you know.

I think that, 

oh, sorry.  Go ahead. 

I was gonna say, I think like the, the thing I heard was like experience, but it doesn't have to be fancy. The thing you talked about, I, you didn't mention like what it looked like. It was all about how it made you feel. And I think if you just think as the esthetician and service provider, how do I want to make people feel when they come into my room, because yes, you want to give the good service.

Let's put that aside. So we were doing that. How else do you want to make people feel? Cause the service is not the thing they're going to remember. What they're going to remember is how you made them feel. And. building your practice and your experience around that. Because we all have that different idea, and that's where you bring in your personality, 

right? 

And also, like, I think the other thing too is that, you know, we're so diverse in Edmonton. Like, there's so many different communities here, so many different ways of being and knowing. And  I'm going to come back to the nurse. Which is not a clinical piece, because the reason I also go to her is because she understands different skin types, right?

Like, I am darker skinned, so my melanin production is differently. I bruise differently. I have different ways of adapting products. I have different understanding of the way that I can absorb things or not. And she understands that, because she's also A, a different ethnicity, like she's South American origin, she's Chilean, right?

So she understands the spectrum of colorism, like in terms of women's skin types that she has to deal with. And so she caters that to this  sort of facial slash rejuvenating skin style, right? And I don't know many people that understand that nuance, right? Like, Because, you know, people who are of European descent, people who are of Middle Eastern descent, or South Asian descent, or South American, we all have different skin types and reactions to products.

And it's important for people to understand that, because damage can be had. So, so I've been to places, mainstream places, where my skin has been damaged, right? Like I, because I bruise easily, or I have different melanin needs. And I will never go back because they have not catered something to me. So I think that when you're talking with a niche,  it's also recognizing like, who is your client  and what are their specific needs, right?

So a lot of South Asians in Edmonton, people from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Afghanistan, will go to actually like spas that are catered for South Asian women. Cause like I said, we have a history of different treatments that are unique to our culture. Basic Ayurveda, which is the sister science of yoga, that's over a thousand year old, right?

So things like face yoga, but we use face yoga to keep our Our  faces lifted. We don't have like this 

The secret's out. We know now.  I know now. We don't 

have to do, like we don't have to do, like, actually lifting. Like, you know, I, like, I mean, we do, of course, some people do. But, but there's also this knowledge that you can do this, right?

And even using natural products that are in your kitchen pantry, right? Like right now the medical community and the wellness community. Oh my god, turmeric. It's like anti inflammatory Hello, this has been our lives forever because it's what we know and now you've taken it, but what's the origin? Are you talking about turmeric and what the origin is?

And even just like herbs like natural herbs, you know like I think there's been a resurgence of looking at herbs for some hormonal health sometimes right like So, for example, in India, in Himalayan tradition, in Ayurveda, Shatavari is a woman's herb that's really good to give support throughout your life, right?

So, actually, if you go to that store that's on Optimum Health, That's on 109th. There's this really beautiful tea called Woman's Elixir that's really lovely and it has Chicago in it, right? So, so that's the thing. So I think that when we talk about creating an experience or a spa space, like just understanding who your client is.

Understand.  Maybe they have something that they would like. So why not ask them, right? There's no harm in asking, right? And then, and then that's also how you build a relationship with your client. So they come back  to you. Because if you don't take that time to build that relationship, it's just one time you see them and then they're gone.

Right? So I think that that also is a very important aspect of building your business.  I love 

that you,  you touched on a few key notes there that so I love educating in this industry and  They're taught the Fitzpatrick scale, if they're doing facial, absolutely, but I don't think they're, they're missing the key points behind that as someone offering a facial 

service, 

you should be able under that education, hopefully it was a good education, that anybody coming on to your table, your bed, no matter what the services, you should be able to understand what to do, like the three of us all are different here right now.

And we should be able to do a facial on. All three of us.  And people are missing that point because there's the courses, some of the courses are so fast that they miss the key elements behind it all, like you said. Understanding Fitzpatrick scale, which is the melanin skin type, and how, how to do what to the skin,  is so essential, and especially when  the online world of being able to just order something, a new machine, and thinking you know how to use it, because it's too general on their training.

They don't actually, I'd like to know how many actually teach to the Fitzpatrick  scale with their machines, with their product line, with their peel, all of it, and it's not taught like that, very rarely taught that way, you 

know? Yeah, and I think beyond teaching is the, when you're, you're taught it and then you get the practicum part, if you're bringing in your own clients,  You're not bringing in a range of people of different Fitzpatrick, right?

So I think that that should be a requirement. You should have worked on every different skin type and skin 

color.  

So that you get that comfort because there are people who are just not comfortable working on people with darker skin because they're, they've never, they haven't, they know it in theory, but they haven't experienced it. 

And that's fair. You don't have to. Treat every Fitzpatrick, but if you're an open concept, like you went to a place from what I heard that was taking everybody and everyone,  but yet they damaged and you're never going back  and, and, and that's unfortunate that it happened, but it's more of that going on because people are not understanding us as technicians are not understanding because I have the ability to go online and order a machine because I can, because there's no regulations. 

Very little regulation. Some, some provinces have regulations like Winnipeg and Saskatchewan do. However, not when it comes to equipment.  It's anyone  can order anything, including product. They're ordering peels online.  And what's the key ingredient? How does it work? And I go, I'm not sure. It's just, I thought on TikTok, I thought it looked amazing.

So I'm doing it on my clients. And that just scares the living bajeejies out of me. I just, Oh my God, you've missed this. So I can totally understand what happened to you. Unfortunately, there's more and more of that happening and not understanding that behind like you said during this really to hone in if, if I, I would suggest in this day and age, if you're looking to expand your knowledge and you didn't receive it in school because you didn't have the clientele.

That's fair. It happens. Yeah, you're not getting the people in. You can only work on the current students you're with your colleague.  Well, reach out.  Do some free services, if you're trying to expand it, or something that you can bring in the different cultures, the different  Patrick scale, so that you're more comfortable being able to do the services that you do.

And that's even waxing.  Like if they're waxing Fitzpatrick's going to matter,  right? It's, it's amazing. I, I, I'm glad you, I'm sorry you went through it, but I'm really glad you brought that up because  more and more people are, like I said, just  not doing their homework diligently before jumping on TikTok. 

So what's up right 

now going on, you know? Yeah, no, and I think that's such an important thing, like we were talking about a little bit before when we got together about trends. And what, had you said something about the noise?  Oh yeah, 

if you are following the trends, then you're getting lost in the noise, where it's, because we were talking about setting an experience and setting yourself apart, even if it's not what is trending on social media, or what everybody else is doing, that's okay. 

Yeah, and you know, I think this is the thing, like every culture, every civilization, loves beauty, loves, and men and women equally, but I don't think if gender specific, right? So, this is the thing, this is always going to be in existence, right? And there's a lot of abundance around how we can work with different people to maximize their holistic health, their wellness, their beauty. 

How they want to be in the world based on what they can afford and that accessibility, right? So, I think that  Instead of having a scarcity mindset and going on the trend and being misinformed and causing harm, because that can happen if you follow TikTok or things that you don't understand fully,  it's better to take some time and actually  be self reflective in your own well being.

Like, what is the regime that you follow that you feel really connected to? Because you've practiced it yourself. So now that you had to execute that for yourself, maybe this is what you offer your clients as part of that relation, as part of that welcoming, as part of being building a space of like healing, right?

Like, because I think expectations too are healers. Like I get my nails done  at a shop by by here. And mostly they're all like they're Vietnamese owners and they're so sweet. Every time I come with my daughter,  And we have these great conversations. So for me, it's therapeutic too, cause it's like having a therapist while paying not as much as a therapist, right?

Like, cause I have a relationship with them. Right. So, so to me too, it's not like I'm just sitting there getting my nails done, like in a vacuum. Sometimes I want some quiet and that's fine, but sometimes I'm also speaking. Right. And, and I think like, it's important because. Your esthetician is somebody that will understand your body differently than you even understand yourself. 

So, if you, if you want a good service and a good rapport, it's good to stay consistent, I think, sometimes. And there's lots of people who want it, but they don't know where to find it. Because sometimes they're not treated well, sometimes they experience harm in the treatment. Like I said, I put the breathing for myself.

Or sometimes they just have bad customer service. Like, even destination spas, like the whole spa experience, if you have a horrible exhibition that's treating you, forget it, you're never going to go back to that destination, right? Luckily, I've been everywhere and I've had really good experiences. So I can't complain, even if we don't speak the same language, right?

Like, there's just something about the way that people want to be treated that that person understands.  And maybe it's taught as part of hospitality, or maybe it's just a natural tendency. We don't know that. But there's ways to cultivate this in your practice, in your business, in your entrepreneurship. 

I love 

that, that part, you can cultivate. You know, another, if people look at this and they maybe don't know how to  Tone in on this to understand what you're talking about is, I mean, culturally, where I, I come from European. Background.  When you come into my home, I'm a host to you.  I'm going to cater to you.

I'm going to be kind to you. Most of the time, do you think but right. It's like, it's a welcoming  experience.  When I had my spa, part of my interviews was  that I asked them, how did you, how do you host a party at your home? Walk me through, I've just walked to your door and they look and they're like, oh, and then others like they nailed it.

They understood. So I said, so this is what we do here. We host our clients that comes through this door. First time, 15 year people, everyone deserves that same consistency.  In this spa,  and I think if we can try to resonate the importance of maybe you've never experienced that yourself, maybe you don't know what it's like to experience being a host about, I mean, look at restaurants, they have a hostess,  and they're supposed to be welcoming and make sure you're seated.

Is the table good for you? They tell you what to expect next. It's service industry. That's what this is all about. Right? And like you said, I think that's a big part of it.  I mean, yes, the service and the technical and the whole thing is definitely essential, like you said, if you could have an amazing welcoming and during and after, but if the treatment went not well,  it is all of it, encompasses all of it,  truly does. 

No, you go now. That's what  Juna said, it's about the whole experience, right?  And it's about how, like, there's this great book Priya Parker, The Art of Gathering. So if anybody wants to read that, it actually talks about, she has such a beautiful way of describing, for particular, if you want to party, if you want to host a workshop, if you want to host something, like, what do you, why are you doing it, like, what is the intention behind it, and how do you set it up? 

For different spaces and places, there's different contexts and different reasons and different ways.  So I just wanted to share that because I think doing it's all about experience. It's important, right?  

Yeah. And actually that falls into what I was going to say, because  that doesn't cost you anything  to add a little bit of like that hospitality, that welcoming the checking in.

These are small things you can do that are not going to cost you. And if you're looking at growing your client base, marketing yourself, we've talked a lot about, you know, how do you market yourself on social media? How do you,  how about just market yourself? Or you're not marketing yourself, but when you're creating that experience, it's marketing you for you, if that makes sense, and that client will then talk about their positive experience, and you create a different kind of spreading the word about your service, and you've paid nothing, and you've, you've just kind of set, and like the, the whole ambiance and the bar of what you provide.

So I think if you're looking to build your clients, that's a really great way to do it, and it doesn't cost you.  

I love that.  That's a great, we should just sum this right up.  

Yeah. And I think it's about creating an organizational culture  that is going to, like Doreen said, adhere to that, right? Because when you're creating a business, when you're an entrepreneur, when you're in the service industry, it's all about your organization and how your brand is.

So, Doreen said, if your brand is like that, then  It's gold, right? I think.  Absolutely. I 

think that you set yourself apart. And  It's standing.  I have my whole thing is like if you're just relying on social media to spread the word about your business,  it's not going to give you the results that you want, because there's so much noise.

I call it noise. There's so much noise out there. And we're often forgetting that to to market our business or to increase our client base, we have to focus on the clients that we have. And they will help us if we give them the best treatment, the best experience, they will help us market our business. 

Like listening to you two, I need to go to Montreal, but really, I'm going to make sure there's time for this voda voda place.  Right? You can hear it already. It's like, oh, that's interesting. I have to try 

that. And even in Edmonton, there's so many lovely spaces, right? There's Kayakama, which is on 34th, it's a South Asian based spa.

It's beautiful. They have a lot of different treatments. There's you had mentioned the one in White Ave, the Hamam.  I forgot the name.  Healing Waters. Healing Waters is where I've been there. Yeah,  there's so many different places to just explore. Even, you know, one of the things that just happened for me, which I didn't go to, unfortunately, was, you know, a lot of people were talking about Korean skincare, Korean wellness, Korean sort of beauty, in that context of, like, using a lot of Korean products.

Cause they're really beautiful and they're well created and they're very natural.  So when I had gone to LA this past year I was part of a retreat for arts community. And one of my colleagues from North Carolina was like, Oh my God, I went to the Korean spa in LA. You guys should go. Right. So that's the thing.

Like, I think that they're just researching like what is in the city that you're in. And if you're interested in trying something new, just, you know,  if you don't know, maybe phoning in and seeing how you feel with that person, and then maybe going and seeing what the experience is. Because you can't always know what you're getting yourself into, that's another thing, right?

Like, if you can complete it in one place and you can do that, that's great. But if you're trying something new, maybe you can take the chance. Like, I always feel like, for myself, I I've always, when I've gone to a destination spa in Asia or in South America, Africa, Europe, whatever, I always take that chance, because it's something exciting,  so I encourage that sense of adventure. 

I love that, yes. Go and try it,  and open minded.  And just embrace and pay attention to how you feel, how they make you feel and learn the benefit behind what they're doing and why they're doing, like you said, education, it's huge. This industry doesn't stop to learn. And I think if you look, like you said, around the world, North America is very unique in itself, but we have so much culture diversity here that it brings everything around the world.

Like you said, it's everyone's going for their hair, their body. If it's skin and hair, they're taking care of it, right? Of some sort of capacity of collagen.  Basically, skin, hair, and nails, right? And then, internally,  it's very important, too.  I think, 

too, you mentioned something, and maybe to wrap it up, you don't have to go anywhere.

Go to different spas in your city and see what's out there because a lot of times when we are service providers, we forget to go get services ourselves, right? We get into that exchange, I used to exchange services or, but it's, it's a big thing to treat yourself and to go get a service. But if you're running your own business, it's a business investment to know what is out there. 

Treat yourself.  

I love that. That's a great way to end this. Thank you, Sone. It was so lovely having you on today and taking the time to share your experience beyond the Boda is, is what that conversation turned into. And we kind of knew when Doreen shared me with me and it's like, yes, I think this is a great way to see someone from, you're not a beauty, your beauty, what did you say at the start? Enthusiast. 

Yeah, but I also do offer Ayurveda classes. 

Yeah, sorry, in North America we think beauty is only, sorry to say that, but you know where I'm 

with this.  Ayurveda classes for holistic beauty, right? Yeah, exactly, 

which is really interesting. That could be a different topic one day.

We need to have you come back, I believe.  

That would be lovely. Thank you 

for having me. Thank you so much.

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