Welcome to this week's episode of 

Beauty Babble. Today we're talking to Carla Khan, permanent makeup artist, esthetician, and business owner on her journey in the beauty business. We're focusing on permanent makeup more specifically. Hi, Carla. Thanks so much for joining us.  

Hi, excited to be here.  

We're excited to have you, Carla.

Why don't we just get started to how did you start this? How did you get into this? What made you take 

that first step? You know, it was kind of funny. So it was after I had been a stay at home mom for 12 years, and I needed to find a way to support me and my three kids.

And I actually was at my hair salon, oddly enough, and my hairdresser was like, well, if I was getting started in this kind of business, I would go and do microblading, brows.  And I was like, Oh, I had always had an interest in the beauty industry. I'd always loved makeup in high school. I was going to be a special effects makeup artist and life took a different journey and I was like, well, let me go and check out this permanent makeup business and see, see what it's all about.

So I had taken a lash program already and then I had found a place in Calgary and I was like,  I used my last dollar. It was closer to 5, 000 and I went and I took a five day course in Calgary. Wow, how did 

you decide? Like there's so much out there to choose from. How did you decide on the 

place in Calgary? 

At that time, seven years ago the company that I had found had been pretty prominent in the industry. They had a school in Vancouver and that was a little bit out of my reach. And so on my Google search, I found the same company, but in Alberta, the Alberta version. And the trainer, she was trained in Vietnam and had lots of experience.

And so I decided to give that one a try. There wasn't as much out there as there is now. 

Right, right.  And I know you've also said, you shared with me, you've taken many, many different courses. So tell us what it was like when you finished that program. Okay, what did you first learn? Did you learn it all or was there one, just microblading was the 

first original?

Yeah, it was jam packed. So, I learned absolutely everything, including microblading. Day one, we did a little bit of theory. Day two, I was already doing powder brows On people? On people. Wow. Yep. I believe we actually did microblading in the morning and powder brows in the afternoon and then the next day was eyeliner and the last day was lips. 

Okay. So now you got to share. How did you feel at the end of that kind of a program?  

You know what? The instructor that I had, she was so wonderful, and she told me how I was going to be this amazing permanent makeup artist, and I left there feeling fairly confident,  and then all of a sudden being out on my own, without having that experience standing right next to me, all of a sudden I was like, ooh.

Maybe I don't want to be going into people's skin when, you know, I've had five days of experience and I don't have somebody going, oh, just tweak your hand just this way or don't put this much pressure on. So yeah, it became very overwhelming really quickly.  Did you have ongoing 

support or  did you 

find any? 

I didn't have any support directly from that program, again, seven years ago, it's amazing how quickly technology goes, we have Zoom now, we have all of these things so back then I, I was definitely left to my own devices, and I, that's really what got me going into the aesthetics program, because I realized there was so much more for me to learn as far as Skin because they, they didn't go over that really in depth with me.

I didn't understand the depth that I was going or why I was going to that for retention, just for everything. And so going into aesthetics just felt like my next step. Cause I wanted to understand why I was doing the things I was doing.  

Hmm. So it's like putting a puzzle, that puzzle together, right?

Keep adding to that puzzle so you can. Understand at a deeper level than, than just superficial. 100%. Mm. That's 

interesting.  I mean, you're opening up people's skin. There's all kinds of factors.  

Yeah. Well, and then you have the types of skin and what conditions and the age and all that.  So did you, after your aesthetic how did you feel, like, did you, did you feel, of course, you probably felt a little more confident to understand what was going on with that imprinting the pigment into the skin. 

What was your next  Yeah, or like, did you feel that that was what you needed? Or did you, did you find anyone at that time that you could mentor with? Or, could you still talk about that, right? That having people around you as support and working with others has been crucial for you?  

Yes, I love being around other people in the industry who, like, know more than me and are so willing to share their knowledge.

Those are my people. So I did find a few friends. I, I actually went and worked at a distribution center. Right out of school. And I was really fortunate to meet some really fantastic, really educated people there, just clientele all around. And I had met people in the industry just getting into permanent makeup and we were able to bounce ideas off of each other.

I'm still in touch with them today. And and we've taken extra programs and things like that with permanent makeup in, in seven years, the techniques have changed. Tenfold, like the lips that I learned seven years ago are not the lips that I learned why I took a program over COVID. It's not the lips that I learned in 2021 and 20, you know,  2020, so. 

Yeah, so technique is, that's something else that I guess people have to be aware of getting into PMU is, it's an ongoing, well, the whole industry is, in fairness, however. Yes. The technique, and even the, the pigments have changed too, right?  Haven't they?  What have you noticed about that? What can you share about the type that are out there or what to look for maybe? 

How do you choose it?  

That's a really big question, Sudan.  

Is that another topic? 

You know, once you kind of understand the skin, the outcome that you're wanting overall results, the clientele, you know, age, race, everything, all of those factors, factors into the kind of pigments that you're going to pick. It's definitely, definitely, huh? It's not one 

brand in a sense, right? Like you, you have to, you have to know your stuff to know how to choose best. 

You really do and you need to know  color theory and, you know, the ingredients that are in the pigments you know, what I started out with  those pigments are,  I mean, I wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot pole today. Let's just say that the pigments that they're bringing out now are a lot easier to use for sure.

Like you still need to know your stuff. You still want to know your ingredients. You want to know if it's, you know, heavy with carbon or if it's an organic food, you know, all of those sort of things. You want to know those because they're all going to have a different response in the skin. And overall healing and everything.

It's going to make a huge difference. So you want to know all of that. But they've made them easier to use in the sense, a lot of them come with a little chart and it'll be like, okay, these Fitzpatrick's are going to suit these sort of pigments. And these are kind of your range. And these are, you know, this one's got a lot of yellow in it, or this one has a lot of red in it or whatever it might be, so you have a lot more help that way.

Whereas when I first started out, it was like I was having to understand modifiers and I was having to understand how many drops of that modifier I needed. And it was like, okay, if I overdid it this way, then the brows or lips or whatever, we're going to shift this shift this way. So they've made it a lot easier in that sense where you don't have necessarily a lot of them already have those modifiers 

in them. 

Interesting. Yeah, I think that's kind of the direction that whole beauty industry has taken is, it is done for us a little bit better that way, but like you, you're key on saying you still need to know what, what it is and the ingredients and why and which is 

perfect.  Because it's just like anything else in the beauty industry.

I think that there's like a lots of light lights and pizzazz and like you see all these different educators and there's Instagram and there's all of these things that we're watching and we're like, Ooh, that looks super awesome. I want to try that. And I want to try that. And it's not necessarily the best thing.

for you or your client. It's just that's the new hot thing. So you need to know whether that hot thing is appropriate or not. And we're seeing a big, a big shift now to into like organic pigments, which and I think it's because to, we're seeing a lot of people coming in needing to have corrective work done now. 

And so with all of that corrective work, we're leaning more towards the organics because they're organics come out of the skin a little like they they fade easier than a lot of the other pigments out there. 

One thing I found interesting about PMU and it's as like, because I'm not not yet to anyways  to do it, I hope to do it still in my lifetime here. 

Yeah. It actually is, people think, oh, it doesn't laugh. Like, but actually you don't, you don't want it to laugh completely because things change as we age our facial. Areas change, there's different things that happen with our hair, like for brows, for example, or the eyes, or the, you know, we call that aging slightly, and that's where you can adjust to it too, and also hair colour will change a little bit as we age as well, so at least you can modify as you say and change it, so it's not necessarily Due to error, it's more of the ease of being able to adjust as people  grow or they change their hair color for a few years, you know, so it kind of makes sense why you're able to do it.

I, I had the opportunity to take permanent makeup many, many years ago, and it was. I was like, I was not interested in that at all because they had everyone had that gray brow and it was like, it was like tattooed it wasn't even, it was like tattooed for your lifetime and then it would be graying out later, or your, your, your red liner around these lips and then I'd see someone who's a bit older and go, God, that was terrible.

So I'm happy that it's actually stayed.  Yes. A little bit than what it used to be I was not interested in it because of that. Right. So, yeah.  I can ask you.  So you're still taking courses. How now, because I mean,  our market is flooded everywhere and the access around the world is there to take many, many types of updates or programs or new training.

How do you choose? What do you, what do you look for? Cause I know you're an educator as well, but how do you choose as a person that you want to learn from somebody? What are some key things you could help? Maybe, maybe someone looking at doing this or, or they are overwhelmed and they don't know how to choose. 

And a place to get updated or new programs.  That are offers,  what would you, what would you, what would you, what do you look for, I guess, 

I should ask?  What I looked for seven years ago compared to what I look for today are totally different. Obviously if I was brand new to the industry, I had, because there's no prerequisites with permanent makeup, what I would be looking for if I was brand new, just dipping my toes in, is I would want to find somebody who's had a lot of experience that I was able to see.

And then we have the ability to see their before and after work. Like seeing the after work is huge because when things are fresh, they always look fantastic. What do they look like after? Reviews. Obviously we have the ability to see things on Google and Instagram and all of that. And people are leaving reviews.

So I'd be looking for a lot of five star reviews. How in depth is their program? Are they going into understanding needles and pigments and color theory? Like how much of their program? Is, has that in it, because a lot of the programs don't although I think people are becoming more aware now that they need that and so I'd be looking to see how many days and how much of the groundwork  is in there before I went into any sort of practical, so I think that there's a lot of programs now too that offer an online, an online portion where they can start their theory, And then they're coming in and they're doing more of the practical, whether it be on skins or on real people.

So that's what I'd be looking for brand new. What I look for now, just trying to up my services.  I kind of go off mainstream. I'm not somebody, I don't get wowed by the, you know.  Influencers? Are we allowed to call them that?  Um,  if they're trying to sell me something or sell me a lot of things, I'm kind of out.

I want to see the people that are in the industry doing the work being genuine about it. There's a few people out there that I admire huge and they've, they've made amazing businesses doing PMU and they travel the world educating but they're really humble about it.  And you can see that they really just want to educate you and make their students as great as they are.

And so that's what I look for in advanced techniques now.

Do you have any  other advice or things to consider besides the education? Maybe some common challenges that you would face. I think twice kind of thing, you know because sometimes we want to go into something having an idea of what it's, what it might be like and the realities aren't always  kind of congruent with our ideas.

So any advice like that?  

Oh, so you mean like, you know, when they, your lips are going to look like the ones on Instagram right after? Well, I 

mean,

what are some things that you wish you had known before you started?  

Yeah, you're right. You do, you look at all the pictures on Instagram, or like Suzanne mentioned, you're like, wow, those lips look amazing, I'm gonna put that, I'm gonna produce that every time, and and And so it, it is hard to kind of weed through and find exactly or, or I guess the honesty is what I'm trying to, trying to say.

So when I left and wanted to start doing it, I didn't realize how much stress How stressful it was going to be like at the end of the day I'm doing something really permanent on somebody's face So you can feel super confident your teacher can be telling you how wonderful you're doing how amazing you're going to be But when you leave that classroom and you're on your own you start self doubting yourself That was probably the biggest thing that I was doing.

I would obsess and even seven years into it I still do a treatment and I sweat while I'm doing it. I'm holding my breath half the time. I'm like, okay, no, Carla, you're doing good. Like,  breathe. That's only going to make it worse. So how stressful it is and setting people's expectations. So I think dealing with the public as well is another really hard thing.

You know, you think that they come in and you do a pre draw on an eyebrow and they're just going to be like, Oh my God. You see the Instagram videos where he's like, Oh, you've changed my life. And that's not really how it is. A lot of time they're a bit shocked or, and then it makes you doubt yourself more.

And you're just like, Oh my God. Like, and I'll sit and I'll, I'll think about it for the six weeks until I see them again. And just knowing that those, what they expect and what you see back are very different things. And you have to make sure that they know that it's like. You know, Brows are something you have to come back for.

They might not be perfect perfect after six weeks, but that's why you're coming back to see me. It's a journey. And so, yeah, I guess overall it's a journey. You need a lot of practice doing it. Don't think you're going to be perfect right out of the gate. It takes time and a lot of energy and effort and, and a passion.

I think for anything in the beauty industry to be good at it, I think you actually have to love it.  

 You mentioned that need to have a community to people to bounce ideas off of Is that something that people should, aspiring PMU artists, should consider when looking at schools?

I'm not sure if some schools do offer that continued support, or what that 

looks like? That's definitely something that people need, and  I think you need to look around for programs that offer a mentorship program. I know with any of the, any of the education that I offer, whether it be PMU or LASHES or LASHLIFTS, it can be something that people think is a really simple service, but you need to have that support and that community behind you because stuff happens.

And sometimes you need somebody to be like, it's going to be okay. Take a breath. And so with PMU, I think you're finding more and more of kind of the private studios offering more of a Mentorship program which is huge like whether you can come back to your educator If you're in a classroom with other people that you keep in contact with having that communication with people is is everything.

I'm huge on community.  Half the time I come into the work and I'm like, Oh, I'm probably bugging you guys. Like I should let you work. You know, I can just talk to people all day, whether it's industry stuff or not. Like I, I think that it's great to have those people around.

Absolutely. 

Well, that's, that's a lot of information. I hope it's enough for people to really think about one before you consider taking the program, right? What to look for where are you? Because I know a lot of people that I hear from about anything in the beauty industry, it's a lot of it's rural community as well.

And they could be the only person nearby. So reaching out, even like you said, you know, it could be on social media to direct a message to someone and say, Hey, I'll You know, I really like your work. I I'm, you know, been in it for so long or just new or whatever it may be. Do you think I could chat with you sometimes?

Or, you know, I don't have anyone nearby. Or like you said, you follow other people that are not necessarily right down the road from you. And, you know, they're your mentor to this day. And you, and you've been doing this for seven years already,  right?  

Yeah, you never stop learning in this industry ever. You never stop learning.

There's always something new. There's always something that you could be better at. I think once you think you're the best at something, you stop learning. And I think that's the worst thing you can do for yourself.  

And your clients. Yeah. And your clients.  I love that ending like that. That's good.  Before, 

before we wrap up, I wanted to see if you can share with us how our listeners can get in touch with you if they have any questions or you 

know, want to connect.

Absolutely. I am always open to that. I would love that. So my business is called Glam Group Aesthetics, but on Instagram I am gl Carla dot glam group. They can dmm me anytime. And my website is glam group yeg.ca and they can reach me there as well. My phone number and all my information is on there as well.

Fantastic. Thanks so much. I will put all of those links in the, in the show notes as well. 

Great. Well, thanks for joining us, Carla. We really appreciate your time and all of the information that you shared. And we hope our listeners will gain something from that, or if they have questions as well, reach out to us or to Carla.

We're happy to be here for 

you.  Thanks for joining.  Thanks for listening.

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