Welcome to this week's episode of Beauty Babble. Today we're talking about LED light therapy, how it works, and what are the contraindications. Hi Suzanne. Hi Darine. How's it going? It's good. This is another hot topic. I know I wear an LED light mask at home when I remember. I know it's trying to get that fit into your life. It sounds terrible, but it's really everything when you look at all the things you want to do in a day and... How do you, how do you do this at home as well as, you know, as a professional in the treatment room too, right? So, yeah, it's a, it's a interesting world because there's all those handheld tools and online and people are buying for home care. And so yeah, we had some people asking questions about it the difference in the devices. And we thought this would be a. A great topic. So people asked about it. And thank you for bringing in those questions, everybody, because that's what we're here for, to try to bring light into this. Haha. So why don't you kick us off by maybe just defining it first, like, what is LED light therapy? Yeah, so LED is light emitting diode, it means. So it's a, it's a Technology that's been around if I'm not mistaken, since the 90s, maybe even longer, but it was really NASA that actually developed this through one was injuries to astronauts in space and how to help while they were there working on things, but also it was how they actually took life growing like plants into space. And they, that's how they discovered at a cellular level what it was doing and how it was creating cells and, and making things grow. So then they took it into People, what about injuries and things like that at a cellular level? So that's kind of the history of that. But I mean, you can easily find that on the internet if you're looking for more details on this, but that is basically it. And then gosh, when it hit the beauty industry. It's been many, many years ago yeah, it's, I can't even think back when it started to get into the hands, into our hands, if you wish and it's improved greatly since then, because of course they're always studying and learning, so it's the depth of the, the light, so each color represents something different. Which we can get into, but really it's about the depth and which one are you treating at what depth of the skin. And that's why there's acne treatment, there's the aging, there's wound healing, there's, there's a few different factors of that., that sounds all great, and I'm going to be a skeptic because Sometimes when people don't feel it, you don't really like, it's like, really, is it doing anything? So is that something I, I know you have kind of a thing prepared for us. So I just kind of want to make sure that we really talk about how it like, is it, does it really work? Well, and that's the thing is that I'm not the one that created this. It's like asking if an ingredient really helps you with something. It's the same process. When you have scientists that are developing and working on this, we have to trust their research and their development on this. And that's why I say, if you, if you don't know if it works or not, you've got to read the studies on it and see. But yeah, it, it does work. I mean, even in medical Outlets, they're doing it as well. Like doctors are actually bringing this into their practices of the medical spa industry, if you wish, on that level. Now, what the difference is at home, so just like products, if you think skincare, if someone can go online and buy something online of a, of a product, a skincare, we'll use that as an example, that's meant that probably everyone can use it. I mean, I'm going very lightly on that because I mean, I know people who are ordering like chemical peels online and it's just random and it's like, what are the ingredients? What's in it? And they say, I'm not sure. It's like, why are you using that podcast episode? Yeah, that's another episode. But usually, there's something out there that's genuinely for everyone, so they're not going to make, they're going to make sure it's safe for everyone. I guess that's what I should be saying. So if you went in and ordered online the handheld light therapies, you're going to notice the light will be a little bit different. They'll be a little bit wider. They might not penetrate as deep. But the one thing about LEDs is you want them close together. So you get the optimum instead of them really spread out. They're still going to do something for the skin for sure, but not at the depth of what, what we would get at the professional equipment and even at a medical level, what they have as well. So it's like lasers, right? It's the same kind of concept. Like what you know, who, who's it going to be in the hands of. What professional is going to have it. So if you're doing it at home, it's like that's great. I, I still encourage it because it's something that they're doing at home. It helps with the treatments you're providing in house for them as well. And it depends what they're, they're looking at. So it, the thing is too, is that with the red light Therapy side of it. They say it's about 21 days now. I haven't researched this if it's changed So the last thing I knew from years ago was that 21 days It takes for that first light to start kicking in at a cellular level So i'm not sure if that has been updated at all, but that'd be something to look into too Just want to be honest with that one That's, I remember, I, I remember hearing the 21 days, that's what I was taught too. Mm hmm, mm hmm, but like I said, it was one thing I didn't actually research, and to see if they've changed anything in that development, I can imagine that that's probably, how would that change if it's the same process of it? It's not like they can change the diode of that light. Right, going into the skin, but yeah, I mean, it does everything from they even say that it's helping stimulate we're balding or repeating hairline because the follicle actually, it's not a dead follicle. If it's a dead follicle, there's no hair, there's no bulb, it won't grow back, but they're actually saying it will actually help stimulate the bulb again. So when you see that online and people come on, like, is that really going to work? Well, you can't bring back bald. A baldness back with hair, but if you start losing where you notice the hairs are coming through and then they fall out and they can't stay, it might help at a fair level to strengthen that bulb. So, keep that in mind, it's not going to fix balding, because then I think everybody wouldn't be bald, right? I thought about the opposite of like people who've had laser hair removal and if they're using, like I don't want the hair to come back, but that doesn't apply, right? If the, if the bulb of the hair is gone and dead, yes. Yeah, no, and that's a great question because I've had people ask that, you know, especially with electrolytes that they're, and then you start bringing these things that stimulate the way it would stimulate what, but now knowing that it's like, yeah, you have to start looking at what's going on with the phase. And if they do have some sort of hormone issue and hair issue, then yeah, it, it, what's it going to do that I don't know. And they've never really talked about, they only talked about really what I found out there is the balding side of things, but I am curious about the face as well, as you say, especially if there's a hormone imbalance. So it's, it's hard to say on that one. That'd be one to be watching for. The other thing they actually said, because it helps with the motor skills at a, at a muscular level, I guess you could say the neurological side of things. Patients with Parkinson's, and you'll see this around the world. I think Australia might have been the first one to do it. Actually, I have a head cap just for the head to help. Was that area and their studies have been going on for many years. I think the first time I saw that, gosh, I'm not sure if it was like 10 years ago. I'm really bad with time. I was sharing that with you earlier. Like where's the time going? Maybe it's longer, maybe it's shorter. I don't, I don't really know, but it's been a long time. But I remember seeing it. Yeah, time frame, right? The other thing is a lot of, a lot of us in this industry are now using this in conjunction or a combination with our facials and peels and laser treatments and microdermabrasion because the red. Light is actually healing as well and brings inflammation down that brings redness down. So it's really great to add on to your treatment. Now, when I say add on, I don't mean upsell your client. Like I really think if you have it, make a one treatment that offers it all and explain what they're getting in the treatment, because you can go in just for L. E. D. Therapy, which costs you so much to do. Everyone's different with their pricing out there, but definitely something to say. Plus we do this. Plus I do this. Plus I do this all in this one treatment. I think that's a bigger bang for your client. thEn saying add on, you know, the, the the, would you like to supersize it? I'll just say that isn't really working with consumers and hasn't for a very long time. So try not to upsell within your service. If you want to be unique, I do recommend make it the treatment and tell them everything that they have in it. And I think it just goes farther. Now the last minute things happen. Absolutely. You know, I know some places that are still using this model to be mindful of that one little off topic on that, but we'll get back to this LEDs with acne to some degree, it depends on how, how far it is, how far gone it is. If the doctor involved psoriasis is another one that they say not, not fully inflamed, be mindful of how far, it's like rosacea, it helps those with rosacea. If they're fully inflamed and there's any the oozing or the pustules happening, be mindful, it could be the contraindication. It might need to bring it down then, do that after, so it helps lower the redness and inflammation of rosacea and with psoriasis. Sun damage is that anti aging side of things and wound healing which I mentioned before and then the wrinkle side when we talk about anti aging or the pro aging, if you can't anti age anything, we're all there, we're all going to be aging, is it flowing it down, but again, not that that cellular level of how deep it's going in where it's going to stimulate the fibroblasts in the south, which hopefully we know this, that it's That's the collagen elastin of the skin. That's the main whole idea of the density of the dermis and bringing that plumpness to the skin naturally and the denseness of the skin, so it keeps the firmness and then being plump if you wish that that the collagen and elastin hydration and everything. So yeah, that's some of the things one. One thing I did find that laboratory studies have shown that skin. Exposed to LED light therapy technology, skin cells regenerate on an average of 150 to 200% faster. Ooh, wound size decrease up to 36%. I'm gonna talk about the wound side of things. LED produced improvement of greater than 40% at the musculoskeletal training injuries in the Navy SEAL team. And decreased wound healing time with the crew members aboard of USA US Naval. Submarine. So they're using these things at another level and I can try to find the links to these as well So that we can share that if you if you want to find it But i'm sure if you just even googled that you would find that research in there as well And with all these different you know, like wound healing acne Sun damage there's different colors of light that would target the different needs. Can you let what are the different colors? So well, there's, there's a few combination colors, but your main colors are your blue, yellow, and red. When you see the green, that's color, color therapy, right? Think of it that way, it's combining. But basically, your infrared goes the deepest uh, and then, which goes right down into the lower part of the dermis. into the hypodermis or the subcutaneous, but then the red light is actually going into the dermis level through the poplar epidermis right through. And then you have an amber which goes fill into the dermis of a mid level kind of thing. Your green will go in there as well. Your blue is actually hitting Epidermal level and just a bit lower. So what the colors do and even purple, but it's not called purple. What am I? I can't think of that name that they use. Magenta? Maybe magenta, yeah. Yeah, violet. Violet, thank you. But typically the main lights that we would use in this industry, and you'll see that they'll do combinations, either they, either they are programmed already for you, that's the beauty of technology, they put, you know, your blue and yellow together already, or they put your blue and red together, or it's a combination inside, or whatever you're using, and the blue and the red go on the same time. So there's different ways, but blue light is basically for your acne. It affects the, the, the upper layer of the skin mainly, but it does hit through the dermis. It destroys the acne bacteria the P. bacterium, which is the propionibacterium. And that's what's really the big one that causes the, the acne when it's bacterial. So not a couple of pimples, I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about full blown acne and a combination of acne, again with the light, will ease the inflammation and the redness, so that's where the red light comes in. So, combining this into your treatment is great, but you should be doing extractions, right, it's going to help the healing process, it's going to bring down that inflammation and bring down the redness, which can be just put on while the mask is on. Right. So there's a lot of ways you can quickly implement these things to really do so much more for your client's treatment. The red light is very common. It's probably the most used, I think in general, unless you are specializing in acne. treatments than a course that's different, but in general, your, your facial, your different things like that, then red light is the one that I mentioned before that stimulates the fibroblasts, the collagen elastin, which as we age, that's what's diminishing. That's what's slowing, slowing down for us. And that's why the red light therapy works really well. And then wound healing is interesting because I actually used it after my surgery the deer. And I did. You know, it was interesting, because I don't know if it did or not, but I thought, well, it's not going to hurt anything. So I wanted to see if it would help heal a little quicker. And it did, and there's people that actually have a cut that they do. I had one lady that talked about how she had her, the mask on, and then she just brought her hand up by it. She had a cut or a burn or something. I can't remember what it was. It was still healing. So she kept putting it there and it went even faster, the healing. So it's interesting how it does speed up, but it does help with the swelling and bruising. So if you have an injury you know, I gave it to my son. I have a hand, hand held one and said, use it. Cause it was his meniscus on his knee that he didn't quite tear up. And it's very, very close to at the time playing soccer. So, He started using that every day and his physio was like, okay, you're healing really nicely. He didn't tell him what he was doing. He just, yeah, this is going great. So is it, isn't it? I kind of go with the science side of things, right? So, and like I said, infrared is the one that goes the deepest, deepest level. Actually, speaking of that, I got to tell you one story. Cause we were talking about it at home and And my husband he grew up in Portugal, I mean soccer, Europe, right? Most of the world. Anyways, he remembers them using infrared for therapy treatments on injuries back then when he was a teen. And I'm not going to tell you how old we are, but it is a long time ago. I and I mean, in fairness, athletes, I mean, they're usually exposed differently than we are. Right, I mean, you look at the hockey player, professional, the Olympians, the soccer world, the, like, they, they're exposed to everything at their hands that they need, right, including surgeons, and, because they need to get fixed up quickly, right, because their whole world depends on it, like, that's their, their, their career or their medal, because the, you know, there's a time frame, or the, you know, the NFL, the. The big game, like, I, you know, there's so many things to it that I found really interesting. I was blown away. I didn't know that one. It just, you know, yeah, I forgot about that. Yeah, I remember them doing that. They had to go for therapy because they heard from someone. What? Oh, so cool. If you're a professional, like to just try it, you know, because then you can have that first hand experience, like everything. Then your clients, if they're skeptic or they're You know, doubtful of what, of the service or if it's effective, then you can also give them a first hand story. Not just the studies and the history and the science, but a first hand story always works really well. Yeah. I think a big thing that people need to understand, too, that it is FDA approved, which here in Canada, I'll just make specific in the U. S., or even Europe, for that matter. I mean, the standards are so high that it's, I mean, when they say it's okay, then you know it's okay. And the big thing, too, is it's not invasive. Right? It's not abrasive, invasive, it's easy to use, it's 100 percent natural in a sense, right? The side effects aren't there, but there are, you know, some contraindications that you need to be aware of, but I think I covered all the light therapies, but some other things that people can think about is sun damage, meaning the hyperpigmentation side of things. Not a sunburn, right? If it's a mild burn that's healing, like, you know, you've touched yourself on the, your pan, your oven, those typical things then it can help with those minor scrapes, minor burns, that type of thing to help heal, but when there's any postural level of things, you'll allow the skin to heal before you do anything with it, because it's, you know, you could create infections and stuff, you've got to be mindful. The other one was actually scars. So superficial scarring so moms that are having kids, it's like, I tell them, start using that right after you have your baby, because it's a new scar, it's a fresh new one, it's not 30 years ago. Sometimes in combination of a few other treatments that are out there to help with scarring at a deeper level, this will also help stimulate if you keep stimulating the fibroblasts of the cell. And that's the whole point. We know that collagen helps with healing. So, yeah, it's, it's a fun thing to add on, and I think, I don't know if I do treatments without it almost anymore, like even some people that after a waxing, you know, if they're facial waxing, bikini waxing, they need something just to soothe, because they're very sensitive people, then this could be something to add to it, right? Or, or they have it at home, like, Handheld tools. You can buy yourself as a professional and sell them to your clients. I mean, if you don't do that, they're just going to go online and do it. So there's that side of things and then you can then help them with it. I don't give much for advice if it hasn't been purchased through me. Or where I am, right? Because I don't know their device, or their product, or their, it's, I, I go about that in the same manner. Right? If they purchase a product somewhere, it's like, wow, in fairness, I can look at ingredients, but I mean, you should talk to the person you bought it from. Right? That's the best way, best practice. buT if you think you can find something similar online, I mean, granted, yeah, they're going to do their research, and I'm, I think it's great. I, I encourage them to do it because it's challenging us as professionals to stay on top of this industry because of that side of things too. So that's just one of the things that are out there. So many handheld tools, right? So you said that a couple of ways to use it in a facial, either creating, like, making it part of your facial treatment or package after waxing. Yep. So if somebody does waxing, but they're not, So if someone is trained as a facial, facialist, or full esthetician, is that still possible for them to use the light? Yeah, they can, yeah, for sure. I mean, you just want to understand, keep the manufacturer guidelines with you at all times. Ask, before you go purchase the machine, hopefully you can speak to someone, and it's not just an online thing, or if it is, it's an email that you're actually speaking with someone. Ask them, tell me everything I need to know about this LED. system, product, equipment, whatever it is that you're buying, what are the contraindications? What are your recommendations? Because each manufacturer is going to have their recommendations. And that's the one hard thing when you're ordering online with some of the sites. It's like, there's nothing on there. There's hardly any information given. So be mindful of that. But really. When you look at contraindications of things I have a list of them, which that's the other side that people are not understanding in this industry that, like you said, they could use it after wax. Oh, that's great. So they go out and just order one and use it, but you're not doing your due diligence to learn and understand manufacture guidelines. thE contraindications, how to use it, recommendations, right? It's important in anything you buy in this industry to have that as a professional. And yes, you can add it, but do yourself a favor. And the other one, which we've talked about in a past episode, I believe is insurance. Before you go and purchase anything as an add on or a service, talk to your insurance agent and make sure, or your broker, that can you, will you cover me if I do this? Because someone bought microneedling and used a device that's not FDA approved, and the insurance says nope, can't do it, and they spent thousands of dollars on this. Yeah, you can't return it. So it became a personal item. That's an expensive personal item. That is expensive, right? So it's not just because it's available to you. My friends does not mean you should go out and buy it I think it's always good to check with like your local supplier like distribute distributors They've been trained, they have more information, even if you don't, and this is going to sound terrible, but even if you don't end up buying that particular one, like you talk to somebody and get information, maybe it's not the right fit, but at least you've gotten the information that you need. That's what, I mean, that's, I know we do that, we share it all the time at Beauty Cult that, you know, we tell them about things, we tell them, yes, you know, this one is 4, 000 because it does this, whereas this is 100. Because of this. And then, you know, a lot of times people think they need to go out and buy that 4, 000 or 5, 000 piece of equipment, and it's like, but you're, you know, you're starting up, you, you're, you're yourself by yourself, maybe you don't have the finances to it, so how about you start leading up to the best of the equipment? Nothing's wrong with the smaller ones, it's a bit less strength wise, I guess you could say, or working, because like I said, especially with LEDs, it's based on the light but each one's different and hopefully, as you said, that's why they speak to someone before you're buying and that can be your distributor, your go to place. If you are searching online randomly and you don't know that company, then speak to someone about it. And that's what I'm referring to by that, right? Yeah. Okay, so as you're talking, I did a little search just because I'm always about the, how much is this going to cost me? Yeah. And just from, like, a few minute Google search, the prices... are ranging from like 85 to 4, 000. So there is a massive range. So you saying like, start, start at a level that is affordable to you, get in the door and then explore ways if you want to just. Keep investing, there's things about this to, for example, a handheld, the handheld, the downfall of a handheld, you physically have to be there as the aesthetician, facialist, waxing technician, whatever it is you do, and you have to be there to do it. Where some of those, you can just It's fixed, you put it on the area and you leave, you shouldn't leave your client alone, but if you're by yourself, you could be cleaning up next to them while it's going on, you can be preparing for your next client, like you're not hands on, but that's going to cost you. Also, the light itself is a little bit different, and they are improving the way the lights are set up and that which that's something we can maybe get into a little deeper, but that's a whole other. Entity. This is just more about the service level of things. But but yeah, so that's the downfall. And it's like even one, you know, like there's some that you can buy handheld and switch out the tops too with each color. So, and you sit there with it, it can, and, and actually if they put cellophane thread wrap around it to protect your, your things each and every time. So it keeps it clean. Yeah. And then whereas the ones that are over top of the person, they're set. But the downfall of that is it is definitely set, so it's not like you could push that down to the bikini line if they're set, whereas the handhelds come really convenient for that, right? But and also how far away from the face is it? Because some of them I've seen, I've looked at go, gosh, like you've got a good half foot when we know it needs to be close to the skin. Very, very close. So I'm, I always wonder about that, but that's when it comes to the strength of the lights and it's designed that way. Right. So do you have like, is it every machine would give you the ideal distance from the skin? Cause I was just Googling that too. And it was say, like what I saw was something like anywhere between six to 18 inches from the skin. But is that. It depends on the industry standard that depends on the light itself, like, yeah, we have one because we know the lights are not as close together, but it still gives enough. It actually has like a rubber plastic kind of covered, but on the face and then the light actually goes on. You probably feel them. You can wrap it around your head. It's really pliable and we put that on on their skin and it's almost like directly to the skin. So I have that one at home. Yeah, I know. I have a handheld one and that one too. But yeah, the handheld's nice because like, you know, like I said with the injury it was used on the knee. Stuff like that, right? So, but the big thing too is to understand there's contraindications with this and the biggest thing, so you had mentioned if you're not like a facialist with the studies of the skin and things like that, at that level, the biggest thing I always say then if you're not 100 percent sure, ask them to see their doctor. Next time you see your doctor, here's the note. This is what it's called. Because there's things like you know, suspicious lesions and malignant tumors like. There's a side of it that yes, it helps with some form of skin cancers, but we're not doctors here. So you need to make sure you're talking to a doctor, if you Google and you search all this, you're going to see all this stuff. Oh, I can help you with your skin cancer. No, you're not a doctor. You're not an oncologist, right? So, things like that, I just, I find that we, we, we're taking on a little too much just by thinking Google is the answer. We still need to understand there's a medical level to this too, right? If you're sensitive to light. You know, like for me walking outside and it's a sunny day, or even a snowy day, and it's glaring, anything like that in my eyes, like, I can't take it that to wear sunglasses with sensitivity to light. Epilepsy. Now I've heard, yes you can, no you can't. You know who's going to tell you? The doctor. Right. Mostly I've heard no. I had one that said yes, but I mean, there's hundreds of types of epilepsy. So is it the type of epilepsy? I'm not sure. Photosensitizing drugs. So think of your tetracycline, like the acne, right? Any kind of a bacterial antibiotic kind of thing. Lithium. Lithium. I mean, now with you know, that's a mood stabilizing medication. So think of mental illness. Things like that. And a lot of people aren't going to talk about those things, right? So you want to make sure that you're understanding what they're taking before using. I know people that just, oh, I put on all, all my clients, like, Do you have that on the form? You know, like they've, they've given you all the information. And melatonin, actually, that was an interesting one I found because it's used for insomnia or helping with sleep. But it's also being used for depression. As well, yeah, and chronic pain, even in some ways of dementia, but I mean, I'm pretty sure someone with dementia wouldn't be coming in to feed, but you never know. Anyway, so it's really understanding that's where your forms come into play. And this is why you need to have it on hand. And when you, you can't just say, oh, it's so good for your collagen production. There's more to this. So, it's really understanding that side. If you have a client who is susceptible to migraine brought on by light, you know, some people with the light actually does it. We'll keep that in mind. You don't know. You could induce a migraine headache with your client. Big ones nowadays is your fillers and Botox suggested to wait five days. I guess at that cellular level, I'm not sure what it's going to do, but After? Five days after you get any of those treatments? After a filler, yeah, and Botox, any cosmetic fillers. Mm hmm. And then history of skin cancer. So if they've had a history of skin cancer, you're probably best not to be doing this. And then there's also some thyroid conditions as well. Again, the doctor's your best course of action to get a note. Staple the note to their form. Is what I do anytime I have a doctor referral on that and the other one I saw was le, I'm sorry, SLE, which is actually sympathetic systemic, sorry, lupus urithmosis it's an autoimmune disease and now with all the different types of autoimmune. That's why I brought that one up. Like, can you do it? And if you're not sure, this is where your friend Google may be able to help you quickly. To at least say yes, go to your doctor. When I hear someone's got an autoimmune, I'll look it up, and if it's not something like Crohn's, I don't know, how do I say it, right? Like something where I look at that and go, Oh, well, I don't know what that is. So I think you should go see your doctor and let's make sure because it's important, right? And then pregnancy, you know, or severe illnesses of any kind, like I really think we're forgetting about the doctor's side of things in this industry. I know people who are just making decisions on their own. It's like, well, what's wrong with it? Everyone has, I mean, they can buy it online. Yeah, but if they choose to do it, that's on them. Basically, yeah. If we add this to a treatment, it's on us. Yeah. There's a difference, right? You know, I remember one time having a contraindication with a client. I don't remember what it was I was doing on her. I just, it came to me just now, but I remember having this discussion. And she said, what if I write on the form that I waive all of this, but I wasn't doing anything too crazy. I don't know, I think it might have been microdermabrasion or, I can't remember, it's too long ago. But I do remember having someone challenge the form side of it, right? And I said, you know what, for me, as your esthetician, I'm going to ask you to go see your doctor. And I just can't, I can't do it. I won't risk you. And I think that's the big thing. Even though, and sometimes they don't get it, people are doing stuff nowadays that they know they shouldn't be doing. They still do it, and they know that their doctors said don't. It's, it can cause this or this, or, or, or maybe make your epilepsy worse, or, you know, there's so many things to this. You're jeopardizing the baby, like, you're, you're playing with fire, and I think as consumers, we're doing a little more than that, but also as a professional, as well, that's something else that we, we need to look for. So, be really diligent on the forms. Like with Google, a lot of like, I know every time I go to my doctor, if I, my daughter had a neck pain the one day and I, so I took her and she's just like, this is why it's not meningitis. She's like, cause you Googled it, right? I'm like, yes. And so, you know, somebody could Google it and be like, Oh, no, no, it's I'm fine because I found it. But that can't be trusted either. So it's always to just stick to your guns. And they know doctor not Google an actual doctor. Yeah, like I've used it where it's like, someone's got a medication, right? It's like I was doing electrolysis and, and wanted to know what it was for how it worked, or it's medicine and Yeah. Prescription, I'm doing chemical peels, like, I want to know what it is, so I know it's for me, because I'm going to learn more about it this way. Right? But it's just, because then I can automatically tell if you came in, oh, you're taking this medication. Well, you need to be aware of this, so you're going to need to have a doctor's note. And this is why you do consultations. Before your treatment, right? Instead of coming in, booking an hour, hour and a half, and think, oh, I can't do it. Now you've lost an hour and a half. You know, we do a preliminary, what we call a preliminary consultation. Just a quick one. Anything we should be aware of, health wise, that type of thing. We will be going through it in person when you arrive. We just don't want you to show up and then find out. You know, we can't, especially with waxing, right? They're on acne medication. It thins the skin. So we can't wax you. So you come in, leg wax, brazilian, whatever it may be, you book the time. Now, what are you going to do? You can't fill it at that time. Unless you can convince them to do a different service, potentially. But again, Is that doable, right? So I always do that preliminary kind of chat over the phone, general questions to feel out, is there something going on? Cause that's the worst part of it. That's how I operated. My business was like, I wasn't going to have someone walk in and, and I couldn't do the service for them because now I'm out, I've wasted my time, wasted their time. They're not happy. They thought they were coming in for service. They're not happy. They can say, Oh yeah. Yes. I didn't think of that, but still. You know, it's just something that I think we could do a better job of out there. And I get it, like I had a conversation, a full on conversation with someone just the other day about this, that well, how come they're not teaching us this? I said, okay, fair, I get it, but there's so much that we have to look at ourselves. Like you know, like you're, you're province or your state, what are their health guidelines? Like, how are you supposed to clean your LEDs? Like, you need to have a way to do this. Know that you're, you're being following the guidelines for personal services, right? Health and, it's not health and safety, it's just actual health, health inspection side of things, right? And You know, that's, that's your job is to know that you're following the guidelines. It's your job to get insurance. It's your job to find out all the legal ref you know, things that could go wrong or how do you protect yourself as well. Licensing, I mean, all that stuff. So, even as simple as these little LED's, pardon me. It's, it's no different than any kind of thing that you're purchasing. You should be looking any kind of devices you're looking at. Are you covered? Right? Oh, right. Yeah, yeah. So, are we going to get out there and get our lights? I wish I had them on during this whole podcast. I kind of wanted to run and get mine. Exactly. And I think it's, you know, it's so readily available that that's why we kind of wanted to do this episode, because it's, it's out there, it's very popular. And if you aren't providing it in your service. Maybe there's a way that it can fit for you and for your treatments that you provide. But it's also good to just be aware of it, too. Because your clients might come up to you and ask you a question. Exactly. And then you can have a little bit of awareness of what's happening. I mean, with that, with it, it's like, it's interesting, because in my head just now I went, like, when you think of all the breakdowns of our industry, where could you use this? I mean, you do nails on a client. You know one of the areas that age quickly? The hands. So what if you did? Offered them that after their treatment, right? So on another table, I mean, there's so many things you can do with it. It's just, you know, and look, but that's where my brain works. Like, what more can I do for my client? What can I give them more of, right? I'm going to put it in my pricing. Of course, but how do you make it unique and different about yourself, right? And I think, and it's genuine, like it comes from a genuine place. Every time I'm trying to think, what else can I do for that? And that's the thing, it sets you apart, right? Because there is a lot of competition, so it can create a bit of, like, distinction for the services that you provide. I was thinking when you said nails, I'm like, Oh yeah, while you're sitting there, you can be LED in your face. They could do that too. I have, you know what, but then it comes down to this because like, okay, I even, even not that long ago with someone I was working on and they, and not older, but you know, middle age, I'll, I'll just say, and I had the light on and like, okay, I really want to do your decollete though, and your neck, but your back of the hands would be great. But then that's taking away from decollete. Okay. Okay. Which one matters to you, Mo? That's the client, right? So, you know, it's kind of fun to do, but you know, there's different things that people don't realize that they're doing, like you could be doing a pedicure, offering it on their face during a pedicure. I mean, there's the, there's my head again going somewhere else, leg waxing. Would you like LED on your face while I do your leg waxing? That's a great idea. Yeah, there's lots of ways to implement this and I think you can always set yourself apart again. But not necessarily, like you said, it was a great question. Some people are only doing lashes, right? Well, it could be part of the service. Now, if you only have one room, one bed, that's different, that's harder to do. I understand that. You know, you got, you have to, you have to work with what you have as well. You know, it's like, and that's why too, like when people come in, especially in person when they come visit us at the store and I always ask, well, tell me about your business. It's not about your business. I don't want to know your ins and outs of your business. Tell me what you do, what do you serve or some things, because then my head goes into that. Oh, have you thought of this for your clients? Have you thought of this? What about doing this? And they looked at what? I never knew that. I was like, yeah. You know, and the big thing is, it's so tough because financially, what can you afford to do, especially on your own, right? Trying to get it in, you know, humble, be humble. It's okay to say, okay, this year, all I can afford to do are the handheld. It's going to take me an extra 15 minutes in my treatment. I'm going to add that 15 minute cost into my treatment. And, but what I'm going to do with that extra cost that I'm charging those clients, I'm going to set it aside. And by the end of the year, I'll buy the unit I want. So there's ways to think about what you're doing in this industry. If you've got your business cap out on, how do you do this? How do you start? You can't just be for the fun of it. Oh, I got a couple extra hundred bucks. Make a goal. It sets your brain a little differently when you start approaching it differently. Yeah. So much fun. I love that. I think that's a really good topic for another podcast too. Cause I know for myself, I'm not like business mind oriented. So I wrote it down. We're going to do that. I know. I don't stop. Is there anything else that you, we want to add for, I think so. I think we kind of got everything kind of covered with that. I think a big thing is, is. When you've educated yourself um, then you can come out confidently, like I remember doing this on a client who had rosacea, and when I explained to her, okay, we know what rosacea is at a vascular level, your cupros are expanding, it's more, and then of course a little more than that, because it goes at a, at a skin level where it can get inflamed, infected, that type of thing and then there's like little fissures that get involved into the skin where the bacteria gets in, so it's a whole microbiome I am in balance in the skin, so you need to redo that. It's wound healing. The red light therapy is wound healing. So if you do this at home, every day, I challenge you for one month, do it at home for 10 minutes. So I'm going to ask, it should be 15, 20, but if they're doing it every day, then you know they're probably going to do it a few times a week. It's my theory. It's like when the dentist or the hygienist has flossed your teeth every day. They're kind of hoping you do it every once in a while, at least, but they really hope you're doing it every day. It's the same process, same idea, right? So then, see how it's doing by the end. Of that month. And that client bought one, a face one for home. That's awesome. Right? So it's because she saw the difference because she's like, yeah, I'm not, I'm not having to use my medication. I'm not, it's not getting inflamed and breaking out and it's still there, but it's not getting worse again. It's like, how can that be? And it's like, it's not magic. It's science. I love that. Not magic. It's science. That's great. Well, that's a great way to. Wrap up our episode? Yeah! You're leaving the science. Yes, that's right. And like I said, if you guys, the listeners, have any questions or you hear information about it and you're not sure, you know, reach out to us. I mean, this is we're all here to learn together. And I think it's amazing. I've learned a lot from other people bringing things up. And, and that's what? What is that? You should see me and Tara sometimes at the office, like what did, did you just hear what they said on the computer right away, searching it up and what's that? That's so cool, that's so interesting, or I didn't know this, because it's always changing and that's I think what we need to understand, you can't be fixed and stagnant in this industry, you've got to be. Open to learning, open, not saying you have to change, like you mentioned it before, you don't have to bring LEDs into your service, but you need to understand it so that your clients know as well that you know about it at least, right? I think that's a huge, huge part. Okay, it's, it's science, it's not magic. I love it. All right. Well, thank you very much for listening to this week's episode.