Hello and welcome to this week's episode of Beauty Babble. Are you competing with retail giants? In today's episode we're talking about products whether it's in the treatment room or retail. Hi 

Suzanne, how are you? I'm doing fantastic. How are you Darine? 

I'm doing really well and as I'm always excited I'm excited for today's topic because it's huge.

It is huge like  hearing more and more professionals, I'm going to call all of these people in this industry right now dealing with skin care and having their own business and listening to the different groups that I'm involved in, like I, you know, whether it's a Facebook group for professionals and, and the training is so vast, it does vary a lot and I think people are missing the point of a professional product versus your retail drugstore, department store, like that kind of product.

When we say retailing, we're talking about, well, they're retail giants, as you said. They're, they're huge. So I want to put it in perspective of the latest numbers I have here for you. L'Oreal, we know L'Oreal. Everyone, I think, knows L'Oreal. It is across the world. They have approximately 36 very well known brands.

They have more than that, but those are their top ones. I mean, there's a whole list of them, but you can go ahead and Google that if you've got time for it. And it continued to acquire More and more beauty brands, which is really interesting. And you get into that, but right now the latest number on L'Oreal, they are sitting at a value of about 27 billion and their annual sale are at 38.

That's one company in this beauty industry, right? On the retail side of things. And just a fun fact for you, how does that compare to L'Oreal? Well L'Oreal sorry and Estee Lauder, Estee Lauder is about a third of L'Oreal, the size of it. And we, Estee Lauder is huge. So these are just two I picked on because they're, they're very well known.

They've, they've built a reputation. I'm not saying anything bad about them in any way at all. It's just, it's very different. And I know. Within this industry, how some of them have actually purchased brands from our industry. They were professional skincare lines, and now L'Oreal has offered some magnitude amount of money, and I don't blame them.

100 million for my Suzanne's beauty care.

Probably, like, let's be honest, right? I mean, there's contractual things you have to do with them. It's not that easy. They don't just hand over money to you, right? But at the same time, this is something that is their mission. This is their long term business strategy is to buy out product lines. And they have the capital, they have the money.

They have... The strategy and the money to back them. Mm-Hmm. . We all know Cerave. That's a big line that came out in 2005. It was actually a group of dermatologists out of the University of California and San Francisco developed it, and it was purchased in 2017, which is not that long ago. For $1.3 billion, like the dermatologist that need more money, I would sell it though, let's be honest.

Exactly right. So then how do these. These skincare lines that are out there right now, and you are the beauty professional in this industry, an esthetician, a facial, facial technician, whatever your diploma is, how do you compete with all of this when it's so big and they have the money to market and get the name and the branding out there to everybody, whereas usually our professional skincare lines are focused on the development of the product, the research of the product, and not so much of the marketing side of it.

So I think You know, people need to look at the differences and own it as a professional of why you chose the brand that you have in house. And hopefully you were trained. I think it's interesting because there was a few comments. I think that's why I really wanted to talk about this because honestly, it's a little frustrating when you've spent all this time and money on your education.

And then you have clients saying, well, I can, I can get this product at this place. I'm not here to say names. It's not from you because they say it does this and this. And it's like, but you have to understand most of these product lines that are out there are geared to. Everybody, because they're not being prescribed to them, whereas you as a facialist, you're basically recommending prescribing them this product line based on what you've discovered in their consultations, skin analysis, their history, their medical, everything.

You don't sign even a paper when you walk up to that. Yeah, area of the counter, right? And they say, Well, you look like you have acne. Here's an acne line for you. And to just to 

clarify on that point, because something that I've always been taught, because we recommend products based on what you see in the skin, those products.

Are higher concentration of active ingredients. They're more geared towards a specific skin type. Whereas the products in the retail store, because some places have people that can recommend, but other places you just walk up to the shelf and grab a product because it says it's going to take away your fine lines, because that's my concern.

How can you talk a little bit about that? Just clarifying, like, that's not a myth. They are higher active ingredients. 

Yeah. They're put that concentrated high quality ingredients that and the, and the reason it's being, let's put it, let's put it this way. You have your dermatologist or medical level pharmacy prescriptions, anything like that, is that the highest level recommended by a doctor?

If you are trained properly as an esthetician or facialist, facial technician, you would come next. And then the retail world of your counters and your drugstores, over the counter stuff, they come after. And the reason there's a distinguishing between them is because the person in the retail counter is not trained at your capacity.

If they made an error in their recommendation of product, it should not do any real damage to the person, to the consumer. It's generalized and it's got a safety level to it. If I can put it that way, like you said, you could walk up and you can even say to the person at the counter, I want that product.

Okay. And they have to, whether there's a person there or not, right? But if you do it, you're liable. There's a difference. You know, you can't go and sue the counter person or the product line because that was the wrong product for you. You can try. Again, do you remember how big that company was I was mentioning?

Just saying. Whereas for you, they can come sue you. That's a whole other podcast, by the way. Coming up. Insurance and stuff like that. 

Okay, I'm gonna, I have another question though. Yes. Because this got me to thinking, you just talked about CeraVe and how it got purchased. So if it was created by dermatologists, now it's purchased by L'Oreal.

Is there a difference? How, how does the product change? 

Well, eventually they're going to start changing things because they don't have, unless they're signed and they have the dermatologist still overseeing their science side of it, then potentially it's probably geared, and again in fairness across the world, it's how it's done differently.

Like, I know in France... L'Oreal is actually in like drugstores, not in a retail aspect, not as available like here in North America. And in fact I think it was one of the, the, the ladies from Bernard Cassier that was out here visiting and, and Tara was showing them around and, and she looks, she goes, well, these look so real.

The product line, because she represented them in Europe, and it was only allowed in drugstores, closed up, people couldn't just grab it. Oh. Whereas in North America, it's done differently. So, I wonder, it's such a great question, regulation wise to North America, to Europe, to Asia, to all these places, are there, could you buy that same cream here?

As you could over there. I don't know if they are identical. I don't know if they're actually made differently, but I know here we've always been taught that it's been, it's been done differently. The quality of the ingredient is, is You know, it's going to be cheaper, the ingredients that they use. They're not going to have as much of that active level ingredient.

It could be in the product line, but it's near the bottom, so there's not much of it. So you know the whole thing, even like food, if you look at the first three ingredients, that's their main ingredients, and then go to the next maybe five. That's going to be their next active ingredient. And after that, it's so low, it's not much.

Like, I had one client, and not long ago, that was coming in for our luxurious Quattro Facial, and it was all about anti aging, and really working with the skin, and trying to boost that cell renewal, and youthness to the skin, and firming the skin. There's a lot in it. Anyways, and she said, well, I love the skin care line that I have at home.

Not going to say the brand. And I said, okay, that's great. I'm, I'm glad you have something that works for you. And, but she asked me, she said, well, what would you recommend? I said, well, I would recommend it. And it was from Bernard Caffier. It was the diamond care because it was meant for exactly what she's asking.

Right, excuse me. So I could actually tell her by the ingredients of what it was targeting and why. So she goes, well, I don't know if this is doing this for me. They said it's anti aging. That's all I was told. But oh, why don't you send me a picture of it and I'll see what I can find. And they'll only show you so much of the ingredients anyways on a product line.

Right. That's it. I mean, that's their patent products. I'm not going to tell you everything in it. Anyhow, so I searched it and the top three ingredients were sunblock. And sunscreen. And then the next one, I can't remember what it's called, but it's just a binder. Like I, I don't know the names of the chemistry level of these products, but I look in Google.

Well, why is this in a product? And it says it's a binding product, but makes it all come together. So you can spread it on the face and it won't peel. That's basically it. And she was really upset because that product cost her 175, because ours was 200 and something, so, or 300, I think, 300. Anyhow, and she's like, oh my god, like, they sold me this sunscreen, I'm paying over 100 in sunscreens?

And she goes, that's false advertising. I said, no it's not. She goes, what do you mean? I said, the sun is damaging to your skin, and it does age your skin. So it's exactly doing what it says it's doing differently than the product that we have where it's going to target differently. So I just explained it.

And I think that's why you, as a facialist, people in this industry, you need to understand your products and why to use it. Know your ingredients, yeah. Know your ingredients of targeting that. And I think the big thing is knowing that high quality of product. Is essential in the product line, and then a lot of times over the counter, they're going to generalize it more so like I, you and I could walk in and buy probably something for acne skin, right?

Because even if it's all acidic and it's not going to be what a dermatologist offers, it's not going to be what our beauty profession, esthetician, facialist would offer. There'll be less than that. Yeah, that's what people have to understand. The concentration level of the product are different because it's generalized more so to everybody.

I think that, you know, that ingredient thing, so I'm not going to name names, but I was just looking at a product and looking at the top three ingredients. Actually, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 up to number 7. It's a mixture of petroleum jelly, water, glycerin, and like acetyl alcohol, which is the another. It's not an alcohol.

It's like a type of humectant. So just and it's derived from palm oil and coconut oil. Two different variations of that up until seven ingredients. And still that is just like. Filler product and you're putting petroleum jelly on your face like no. So I think knowing the ingredients is really important so that you are able to explain just like you did why 

What's the difference?

Mm hmm. And like I said, you can't sit there and say that that product line, that is no good, and it's lies. Well, I know they lie all the time. That's not it. Like I, it's true. They said it was an anti age product line because we know the sun ages, right? I like to play the devil's advocate side of it, right?

Yeah, well, they're actually, they're not lying, technically, so when we're targeting things like firming your skin, this and this and this and that, blah, blah, blah, right? These are the ingredients and why they're in there and this is what the active ingredients and if you look on the box, you can see it right there.

Yeah. The names are on there, so it's backing it. And I think, I think part of it too is the hype, like, The TikTok, TikTok, it's the biggest thing. How do you compete with what's on there when people are like, well, I can go to my favourite retail store, I'm just going to say that and I can get this product because, I mean, all these people are saying amazing things about it.

Yeah, you can. But that doesn't mean you go out and buy it. First off, you're buying it at retail, even if they gave you a little bit of a discount because you're a facialist. Why would you do that? You're competing with a company so high. Now you're sending them back to that store to buy the product.

Where's the relationship building and the trust that's going on between you and your client if you're recommending treatments, right? So, I think that's essential for, sorry, for all of us to understand that the difference is in the product. Now, I haven't found the research on this yet, but I did, I did hear from one product line that was purchased by a very large giant.

They brought it in and they started tweaking it immediately to bring the cost down. So it completely changed what they had originally started with to what it was going to. Small changes, but they were big changes. Again, because it's going to the public and it's going around the world more than right.

And, and that really hurt the person who thought it would continue naively, I guess, but they shared that information with us. And like I said, I'm not going to get into it because this is secondhand information if you wish. So I don't know what's actually true, but the person who did was purchased by a large giant of the retail world, and they did change it.

Because they are going to look at costs if they're developing, okay, originally, you were probably, you know, at the even 10 million in products you were creating and selling, right? You're dealing with a company who just bought it for 100 million. You don't think you're going to try to get the money back? 

It's based on what you said earlier,  it has to be for more general people and it can cause, you know, be reactive or cause any kind of like, they have to bring in the liability, or even if they don't have it, it's like reputational, right? So they have to bring it into a A more safe zone, I would say.

Because a couple of professional products aren't safe, but they, you know, you can, if you're not using the proper product, your skin might react to 

it. That's right. Yeah. Like you, you, someone is 16 years old and you're selling them a, an anti aging cream. Well, there could be retinol, there could be, I mean, it's too young of a thing.

Could you do something? Yes, you can, because there's very active ingredients in that, and that's the matter of fact. Even through the peel, like, you're buying glycolic. And now we're actually, I remember at a point many years ago where we were limited to what they would give us. I remember the most active I had was 15%.

And then a few years later, it went to 30%. And then they start to change the pH, allowing us more. That has to be, that has to say something about our profession that they're slowly releasing and allowing us more active and stronger ingredients, right? So I think it's important for the product knowledge side of the skin care.

The other thing is. I'm picking on skincare, but this could be anything, like, and I think many have heard me tell this story how I had a polish line, I'm just going to say a polish line, around for years and years, like it was known and still known as a great product polish, it lasted, went on well, it's just great polish.

I'm walking through Costco one day and I thought there, the person could buy three of those for the price that I was retailing it, one for, where do you think they're going to get their polish now? They're not going to get it from me. No. What did I do immediately? Start searching for a new brand and in for our profession that I knew was not retailed.

So, which is difficult because a long someone will come and buy it probably, but anyhow, my point was, I can't compete with Costco and their purchasing level, right? Like I'm buying how many for my little paw compared to Costco around North America, right? 

And your clients are gonna, they're Not going to buy it.

They can get it for cheaper from Costco. So you're yeah, you're not setting them up for the best 

either, right? Right, because now I've just lost a retail client. And it's an uproar. I mean, clients weren't happy with me. Daph wasn't happy with me. I don't know how many staff meetings I had with them and I tried to explain to them because I get it as a, as a technician, if you're using a polish, it goes on perfectly every time.

That saves you time. That's money. It makes it look good because I don't care how good your pedicure is. If you can't polish. You suck. Sorry. Your client's going to look and go, Oh my God, look what she did, even though you did amazing. So I looked and I searched and so then I had to market it a little differently is how I played with that strategy.

Anyways, in the end, it was a successful thing. But as soon as I see a brand that is out there for retail level, I'm out right away. Don't even fight for it because you're sending them somewhere else to buy it. And I had clients that, why would I buy this here? I can get Costco for this much. And now you have the online world.

Let's talk about Amazon. If you're searching for a product line, maybe you should Google where you can buy it before you go and get it. Yes. Because it's at a professional level. You can buy it from a distributor. Search around because we know of a product line had no more SPF to give their distributors to give to the Bon Salon world.

Could be allocated. Way too much on the online level, because they have to meet those expectations too. So if they've committed on the online world, they have to deliver X amount to them. And everybody in the beauty industry had no SPS from that. And it's, I'm not going to say the line. It was actually surprising when I heard, we're like, what, no way, what?

So we searched online. There it was. You can buy it online in three different online versions too. And they say, no, no, no, that's. Fell off the truck somewhere. Really? How does it fall off that much, that much that it's supplied online? It's like, I don't blame them. I mean, it's money in their pocket, I guess, but don't try to fool, but just be mindful when you're choosing lines.

You know, you just want to make sure that they're sticking with the profession because they believe in the profession, I guess. I don't know. And if it, it happens, we talked, both of, both you and I said sign me up. Oh yeah, I saw that. Absolutely, I understand that. Just go look for another one then because you're competing against huge levels and you just, how do you do that?

You just can't compete. I think that's the gist of where we're getting at is that you cannot compete. So when you have, but you do have the power to select your brands that you carry. And so when you are doing that research, then Be mindful that if it's sold online in a retail one of the retail giants online or it's sold in store at a big retail place, that is something that you need to consider if you are able.

Is it wise for you to carry this product line? Is it going to be more recognizable by your clients and you would think you could sell more? Maybe, but they might get a better price somewhere else. 

The thing is, you're not going to get it for a different price point. If you're lucky, I mean, at some of the places, as a beautician will say, you can get a membership card and you save 10%.

That's not worth it, right? And everything counts for yourself. So, you know, stick to your gun. Learn your product line. Doesn't matter if it's foot care, hair care, skincare, makeup. It doesn't matter. Just get to know your lines and understand if it's been changed and you should just jump online and check out your product that you carry and if it's there.

Yeah, and what's your next step? Like what do you do now, right? 

I think to educating your clients, right? You were talking about this, talking about why you selected that product line. What sets it apart from the products at the, on the retailers or online. Cause I always, I said, I said this for hair more because I think that's a hundred percent guaranteed maybe, but most people use shampoo.

Most people will use something on their skin, right? Like why are they not using your shampoo or your face wash or moisturizer? You know, and understanding like what is it that you need to share and explain with your client that helps them understand why you've selected that and why you're recommending it to them.

So when they do run out of whatever they're using, they're going to think twice about ordering the thing online. 

Absolutely. And again, that's that relationship and trust and why you, you need to keep educating yourself in this industry, stay on top of things, learn and grow. And understand what the differences are like a lot of the time, I mean, another one I can remember from years ago, even actually not long ago, but when it comes into mind the big with when one of the big giants was advertising in back then, magazines were hot, right?

Magazines, huge amount of money for marketing, the huge amount of pages, full ad. Oh my gosh, TV advertisements, you name it, everywhere. Okay. Their posters in their stores, over the counter and all that. That Q10 is the latest and greatest for anti aging. And the product line I had, had already been using it for six months or almost a year before that was even advertised.

And that means that they spent how many years before that researching and developing it so it could be in their brand. So they already knew about this from before. I'm not saying that the giant didn't know this, but the point is they didn't launch it. And then you look at the ingredient list and I have to show them.

Here's the difference of yours where it falls in your product level and where ours falls and the higher up the list The more of it in it. It's not that it's you can't sit there and say it's terrible products awful products There are some like that, but don't back the product just use your evidence I think is a big part of it.

I mean, you can't really do it with nail polish, for example, but you know, there's things you can do and explain and I just, and, and the one time it was nail polish that happened to me and I said, listen, I'm using a professional line and everything I do in this industry will be a professional line product.

It is no longer falling under my belief system of my business. So I will no longer purchase that. And the story, good for you, is you can get three of those now for the price that I'd be selling it. So as a consumer, you're getting it cheaper. But I cannot compete with them. And I will not compete with them.

And I just stood my ground. So, product. 

There's plenty, there's plenty of other products that you can choose from. So I don't, I don't think that it's a loss of, it's just a different, it's a change of brand. And I agree with you. I think it's always best to talk about why you chose your brand than to talk negatively about another brand, because we're not trained or educated in that other brand, but you are trained in your brand.

So talk about what you know and why you've selected it. People, I think I was thinking about this and I think. More than they love a deal, they love a personal connection. So I think that although, yes, I could get one product cheaper online, this product, well, I trust you. You've told me it's good for my skin.

I've used it. You've used it on me when I've been in your treatment room. That is more, I think in my opinion, and I love a deal that is more valuable than the deal. Then I start looking at the deal and I'm like, Ooh, it's probably a deal because not so 

good. I did have clients ask me, Oh, I use this product line.

What do you think of it and how should I use it? And I don't cut them off. I'd say, Oh, that's really, let me know. Which one do you use? Give me a week. I'm going to research it. And then next time you're in, I'll have some information for you. So then I just compared. And I said, well, you can do this because I can see price point, you're quite happy with that.

Is it a horrible line? I can't say it is. I can't say it's the best, but it's not the worst in my heart. I'm going, Oh my God, this is a terrible product. I will never say that. Oh no. I just won't. It's not fair to them because now they're, you're going to put them in a situation that they feel foolish that they bought that 

because now they're asking you.

They're not going to ever come up to you and ask you for your recommendation or what you think again, because they're embarrassed. 

Right. And I said, you know what? You can continue to use it if you'd like. Well, how should I use this? You need to contact them. Who you bought it from. They know the product line.

I know my product line and I back the line I use here and I will happily show you how to use it. For example, if they're using. They really love our scrub, my scrub, but they use this other brand. All I can tell you is this, you're going to use this exfoliation  once a week or twice, whatever your recommendation.

The rest you're going to incorporate in if you had an exfoliant. But to mix things and stuff, that's out of my hand. I can just tell you what to do here, how many times to use it. Because you still need to integrate. I have clients who love certain products and they will not change their products. You need to work with them as well.

100%, yeah. Right? So, not always is the product a horrible product per se, it's also they're so attached to it. Some of the negativity we get in our industry is, well, I love this deer, why'd they get rid of it? I'm so disappointed. Why'd they change it now again to something else? That's their job? They're always 

researching and looking for ways 

to improve it.

Better and newer, and even though I can go back years of products that I love, love, love, I've moved on because I'm going to trust the company that's... Doing the development of that product line, that it's doing something more and better for the skin. So, and that was always my approach to learning about products, but definitely work with them, not saying to cut it out completely, but you, it's not like I ran out and bought that, you know, and I would not recommend it.

And I've had, interesting enough, there's been, there was a whole thing that blew up on this group on, on Facebook. I don't comment, I just, I'm there to look and listen and learn and that's my thing. And this professional licensed facial that talked about a brand that's not professional. And ask an opinion.

How do you guys use this? And it was, it's one of those marketing you know, you, you, you make money, the more people you have under. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll call it that kind. I was like. Oh, my God. There's like 200 answers. They go, Oh, boy. This is, with the autism on here? So, it's licensed. The audacity. Well, I was like, Oh, my God.

I can't imagine what they're going to say. Now I feel all gossipy. But it was just interesting because I know one thing about the States. It's licensed. So, I don't, it doesn't go far for me to understand where this came from. And they said, Why would you go through all that education? Get licensed to purchase from that.

Yeah, not learn anything. And of course, I just want to help my clients. So I'm looking at everything possible. And then some of the, you need to go back to school and understand why. You do professional skincare over that and she was just trying to do the best for her client. So I think our minds have switched a little bit and that's what intrigued me about this is I don't think people are understanding when you go to that and you're recommending that why are you recommending it when you don't have the brand?

Right. I think, I think that's the other side of it. If you were a person that represented that brand in your business and you're selling it, I, I still wouldn't, but if you are, that's your, your choice. You get to run your business how you want and you also have a professional line. Maybe you think that'll help because professional line, everyone thinks it's expensive versus this line, but you're not understanding ingredients once again if that's the case, but if you don't even have the brand in your, in your place.

Why are you recommending them to go buy it elsewhere? And, and it just, I had nothing to say. I was just interested in all of the back and forth and, and it was really unfortunate because there were some not so nice comments. And that's the thing that happens when you're online. You've opened yourself up to a whole other world.

But anyways, I think we get the point of it all. I think you just really need to think about, well, what level of professionalism do you want? And, and we're trying so hard. I know, especially here in Canada, because we're not licensed, right? And, and, in order to practice here in Canada, you can do online courses and never touch a person and start your own business and everything.

I mean, let's go not even farther. I'm going off on a whole other tangent. If someone has the money, they can go buy a laser machine and start laser hair removal out of their home. No education in the industry. Like nothing. They just buy the machine. They'll be taught. Oh, we train, we train. That training hasn't gotten any better from back when they first offered it.

So just keep that in mind. They did, they're trying, definitely trying. But anyways, it's like, you have to look that you, we work so hard to do, you know, our, our trainings that we take the desk level and

then we have this, the, we're even competing on the levels of training, let alone the product lines. Right. 

I think, like you said, like you have to represent your profession and. Set yourself apart. Like that's how you do that, right?  And your confidence.

Exactly. Exactly. So I think that anything that you do in your business, you have to do it through the lens of your professional. You went to school for this, and this is why. Yeah. Don't undervalue yourself, your services, or your products that you're carrying because they should be an extension of the treatment that you provided for your client.

Absolutely. I like how you finished that one.

This is a big topic, right? So if anyone, like, like we always say, you know, let us know what you think, what experiences you've had. And we can always do a follow up episode if, if needed. 

Absolutely. Or you might want to join us. We'd love to have a chat first.

We usually do an interview first, but we're all, yeah, as well join us. 

Great. Well, thanks so much, Suzanne. And thanks to our listeners for joining us today. We'll see you next week.