Well, welcome to the latest episode here of the
day and time podcast if you like discovering
new music and you like baseball like I do Hopefully
you found a show that it feels like it's tailor
-made just for you With that being said today's
guest. This is really exciting episode number
101 and I'm pleased to welcome Who I consider
in my research the authority on Montreal Expos
baseball If there is a peer in this realm, I'd
like to know that person's name. And I'm sure
Danny would be interested to know who that person
is as well, because this is probably the most
thorough research you're going to find. I would
argue on most major league baseball teams past
or present. Danny Gallagher, my guest today,
has published 11 books on the Expos. The latest
and I'm pleased to have a copy with me here if
you can see it This is called explosion Genesis
to relocation 1994 saga contraction revelations
about the dying days Moise or Moises Lenny Schneids
and the Expos this is the latest in a long series
about the Expos and No surprise May 2026 or early
spring. We'll call it another book on the Expos
Willie Davis the tragedy of Willie Davis and
more exposed stories, but and Danny has published
hundreds hundreds of articles on the team and
I want to come out and say Because some of you
may be hearing. Okay. Well, that's a lot of that's
some good material on the Expos fans of baseball
and I would I would even say fans of sports You're
going to love these books. There are stories
just in the 2024 book explosion on Terry Francona,
on Moises Salou, Jean Mock. There is material
in here that you have never heard before on any
outlet. And it's a fascinating read and it's
a great book as I believe some of the other ones
are in the catalog where you can, you can sit
down, flip it open, get to a random chapter and
start reading and enjoying it. But Danny, I'm
really rambling here. I'm great at doing that.
Welcome to the show. Thanks for making time to
be on Dan Time. Yeah, Dan, thank you so much
for having me. It's a pleasure. Always nice to
talk about the Expos and baseball in general.
It's been a passion of mine since 1988 as far
as publishing. you know, books, because that's
the year I joined the staff of the Montreal Daily
News covering the Expos. So ever since then,
I've been, as you say, I've been writing hundreds
of articles about the Expos and coming out with
my 11th book in 2026 with special emphasis on
Willie Davis. There's a real fascination about
the Montreal Expos. If you look around, And people
are familiar with teams that have been relocated
over the years. Markets that have lost teams.
You've got, of course, the Brooklyn Dodgers.
Brooklyn Dodgers, New York Giants, those franchises
move west at the end of the 50s. But as we know,
New York gains the Mets. Milwaukee loses the
Braves to Atlanta. As we know, Milwaukee gains
the Brewers later on. Baltimore loses the Orioles
to Washington, but then they get the Orioles
back Seattle the doomed pilot season, but give
it a few years. They've got the Mariners Washington
loses the Senators gets the Senators back or
the Nationals by way of Montreal Kansas City
the athletics moved to Oakland Kansas City, of
course has the Royals now You really have to
go and and we all know what's happened with with
Oakland and this limbo period in Sacramento for
the A's. But you really have to go back to, in
some cases, the 19th century. Indianapolis, Buffalo,
Louisville. Danny, is there another municipality
in modern history that has lost a franchise and
we just don't know if we're ever gonna have another?
Major League Ball Club in that city again? Well,
it's possible, you know, all this time, 21 years
at the Expo Dress for Washington. You know, from
2004 to 2012, there really was no talk about
anybody interested in promoting a new team in
Montreal. And then in 2012, Juan Comadi, the
former Expo, started beating the drums. And he
was meeting with some Major League Baseball officials,
but really didn't have any money. One comedian
had no money then, and he had no money now. But
he, for many years, he was, you know, a silent
drummer, beat drummer, running the Expos back.
And then a few years ago, Stephen Brantman, the
son of the former Expos owner, Charles Brantman,
showed a lot of interest in getting the team
back in Montreal, but he was especially interested
in the split season sister city concept with
Tampa Bay, which really didn't work out because
he, Stephen LaVapen, did not have a lot of money
compared to his father. So he just said that
he did not have the financial resources to...
have what you call a full -time team, meaning
162 games. But he was interested in the Tampa
concept, where 41 games would be played in Montreal.
And Tampa Bay, supposedly, would pay a lot of
the expenses. And Bronfman's group would get
some of the money for the Tampa Bay home games
played in Montreal. Then, of course, as you know,
that was turned down by Major League Baseball
in January of 2020. to 2022. So since then, it's
been, it cannot be leaked and nobody has really
showed any interest. When I heard about that
concept, I thought that there's just call it
some psychological problems with that. If you
live in Montreal, you live in Tampa Bay, and
it's like, okay, half this team is mine. Half
of it belongs to this other city. It's psychologically,
I just don't feel like it works for the fan.
You don't feel like you're the same. It's your
same ball club as a Texas Rangers fan or Pittsburgh
Pirates fan. They don't have to share it with
anybody. But that was my thought. My first reaction
to that. For sure. I don't know what the fan
reaction would have been. Let's say that was
pulled off. How the Montreal fans would react
to it to a team that was not called the Montreal
Expos called Trappabay. X -rays or whatever you
want to call them and but it was. Stephen Brompton's
idea of getting baseball at least back into Montreal
in some form or concept and that later on possibly
a full -time team would come. But that was ideal
for him because he just didn't have the money
for a team play at 162 games. And you know the
Players Association didn't like that idea of
the of the race playing games in Montreal. The
Tampa Bay players would have had to get accommodation
in Montreal while they already have an apartment
or a house in Tampa Bay. Sure. I do want to say,
Danny, with these publications coming out, I
think yearly for, you know, up until 2024, I
think you've released five books or a book every
year for at least five or six years. this in
tandem with the interest in the Montreal Expos
memorabilia the jerseys the t -shirts the hats
people are still buying these items and everybody
loves nostalgia and you never know what the next
generation you know what what they're driven
by but I I Feel like you probably agree. We're
kind of sitting back in this lull period. We
don't really see any action on the horizon, but
It hasn't I don't feel like that will ever completely
vanish this interest in the Montreal Expos in
their path certainly in their past but kind of
the what if Can't we make this work again? What's
it gonna take? Do we need to? Does this the city
need to finance a new baseball stadium and just
say we'll build a stadium Has it ever been discussed
or do you think there's any? conversations being
had about really rolling the dice there and trying
to finance a stadium and then seeing how the
league will respond. Yeah, you know what? The
estimate of getting an expansion franchise is
about 2 .3 billion US or 3 billion Canadian,
which is pretty high. And then to get a new stadium
downtown Montreal would be, let's say, another
billion Canadian. And as you know, Dan, the city
of Montreal and the province of Quebec spent
close to a billion dollars recently, and I guess
they're still renovating the roof and the perimeter
of the roof at Olympic Stadium in East End. So
that was kind of like a signal saying that, okay,
we're fixing up Olympic Stadium, but not for
baseball. When what they did was they... We did
the configuration of the Olympic Stadium field,
but not for baseball. They made it more for football
and soccer. But they told me that let's say baseball,
let's say the Blue Jays came back and they want
to play another exhibition during one year, that
they could change the field into baseball again.
But it would require somebody with deep pockets
then to get a... another franchise. Rob Manfred,
the commissioner, said that he would like to
expand in the final year of his year as a commissioner
in 2029. So you're talking another four years.
You never know if somebody might come out of
that blue and try to get something going. Warren
Cormarty told me recently and he told a a talk
show host in Montreal recently, but he's trying
to get Japanese investors in Japan where he lives
about six months of the year as a broadcaster.
But nobody has come forth in the two and a half
years since the cap of a situation was turned
down. Danny, I want to take you back to that
year, 1988, when you became the beat reporter
for the Montreal Expos. While working with the
Montreal Daily News That's right and coincidentally
at my age that was around the time that I started
watching baseball in earnest Started collecting
baseball cards in 88 by 89 I was watching most
games on TV that I could watch after school when
I could watch them I was a big fan 1988 1989
I'll start with that now you told a story on
the Good seat still available podcast episode
and at the end of this episode I do want to kind
of rattle off some appearances that you've made
and I'll list them in the show notes, but she
told a great story about one of your favorite
expo players Rusty stop when he comes back to
Montreal Around the time that I was born late
July of 79 and you described this this setting
that Don't recall seeing in 1989 1990 91 on TV.
You recall you described something like 50 ,000
Exposed fans Cheering as loud as they can. He's
coming up too bad as a pinch hitter in the second
game of a doubleheader And I just I'm curious
if you can describe for our listeners who like
me, you know, we're not 25 but we're 45 and we
just don't remember just a rocking crowd at Olympic
Stadium. What was it like back then? Oh, it was
it was electric. You see, he had been with Detroit
and several other teams after he left the Expos
in 1971 and went to commit. He had three years
with the Expos, 69, 70, 71. And so he was like
an early franchise hero. People loved him. When
they brought him back in that trade with Detroit
in July of 1979, they had played several games
on the road, and then they finally came back
to Montreal for his first game back in Montreal.
So at that time, I was working for the Ottawa
Journal newspaper, but not as a... I did not
go to the game as a reporter. I went with my
girlfriend because I'd grown up... in the Ottawa
area and went to a number of expose games as
a fan before I became a beat writer in 88. So
that game, it was electrifying. So he comes up
with a pinch hitter and he can't get into the
batter's box because the fan noise is so much.
He had to step out several times. It was electric.
It wasn't so much the bat itself. It was the
moment in which he tried to get into the box
and the fan applause was so deafening that he
had to step out several times. It was just an
applause of a hero coming back to Montreal. Maybe,
I don't know whether you call him the prodigal
son, but it's a real, it was quite a tremendous
gathering. You know, he went out, he popped up
to the outfield, but the moment of him being
in the Scottish box which were electrified. Wow.
And coming back to 1988, this must be an exciting
year for you. Otis Nixon signs with the Expos,
granted free agency by the Indians, I believe.
He comes over. Randy Johnson, the big unit, a
late September call up. Do you have any special
memories in 88? Maybe like when you Did you see
Randy Johnson in spring training? Did you do
you remember seeing him around the clubhouse
there at the very end of the season? All right,
I was Covering for the Montreal daily news when
he made his first appearance for the Expos in
Montreal And so, you know, you're watching the
clubhouse you six foot ten So you said yeah,
he said I'm looking forward to this And he won,
from what I remember, he won his first game and
then he was kind of up and down to Indianapolis
for 88 and 89. And then, Dan, as you know, he
got traded to Seattle for, along with Brian Holman
and Gene Harris for Michael Engston. And they
had, they wanted to go for it. they wanted an
experienced pitcher like Mark Langston and at
the time they were leading the National League
East by a fair number of games and Langston they
wanted somebody else to come in and continue
the push for winning the National League East
and you know Langston was reasonably good and
then but the the bats fell apart in August and
September and they're just a real Fiasco, they
finish up at 81 and 81. And, you know, it was
a case of the Expos felt that Randy Johnson maybe
wasn't quite ready to come in and be a pitcher
on a full -time basis, because at the time of
the trade, he was in the minor leagues. But it's
like pushing the cart before the horse, could
you have waited until and you got better, but
that particular year, it was getting close to
a championship, NL championship, and the owner,
Charles Balfon, gave Dave Gumbosky the manager
to go ahead and make this trade. But then, you
know, everybody today is criticizing that trade,
but there's also some people who like to trade
because the expo was pushed to get a better picture
into the rotation. Danny, there's just so much
to cover here. A lot of things on my mind. I
want to talk about and then talk about some things
in the book You may have mentioned this or certainly
written about it in some prior books but wow
if Montreal if Major League Baseball had had
Just one wild card to certainly three wild cards
like we have now in the early 80s in the mid
80s Maybe you know at the end of the 70s It is
preposterous 1981 I'm sorry 1987 Expose 20 games
over 500 91 and 71 they finished third in the
division Do not reach the playoffs Of course,
everybody knows about the 94 team the 93 team
94 and 68. That's good for second place miss
the playoffs There's another year here. I think
there are 30 games over 500 1979 95 and 65 and
in 79 that's good enough for second place. A
lot of young baseball fans are maybe hearing
that thinking how are you are you just knocking
them dead and finishing with a few games shy
of 100 wins and you're not playing in October.
It's really crazy as you say 79 and 80 and 82
they had a good team and then they kind of failed.
But 79, 80, 1993, 1987, you know, it was just
some great, great baseball. It should have been
really unfortunate that they didn't get into
the playoffs. Now, the Expos had a mini dynasty
from 79 to 82. They finally get in the playoffs
in 81, but they probably had even better teams
in 79, 80. And some people said the team in 82
would... really really good too but uh and even
83 and 83 they fitted too but I agree with you
if they had the wild card it would have been
so much better the popularity of baseball in
those years in Montreal in general and baseball
because in Montreal is a unique city in the sense
that there's always events and festivals and
things to do with your money and places to take
the kids and Places to go on a date besides going
to a baseball game. It's not totally unlike a
lot of other cities But do you think Montreal
always struggled with that where if they just
had had one? one playoff birth via a wild card
or if they had you know, 1981 goes differently
and They reach the postseason. They win the pennant
it's like they needed one postseason run to Compete
with all the other events in town and just going
into the next year the next year Being a strong
draw all the time Exactly You know 93 that team
is almost good. He said 94 93 You know, they
changed a few people for 94, but that was a tremendous
team if they had been able to Keep a lot of those
players with a maybe a bigger budget then They
maybe could have maybe even 92 and Felipe took
over it would they turned out to be putting the
team at the end and then you know 94 as you know,
you know with the strike they Were able to complete
that year and that time would have been a wild
card year Let's say even if they had not won
first place. They probably would have made the
playoffs as a wild card and Then you know with
with playoff money, let's say 79 80 87, 93, and
94, you're able to build up a revenue chest of
money to keep players to stay around for a few
years. But what happened with the 94 team, when
that strike carried into the next year and then
it was finally settled, the Expo's ownership
wanted to trade. Ken Hill, Marquis Grissom, and
John Reckland, and they didn't want to offer
a contract to wire Walker. So that was kind of
like the beginning of the end of the expo, but
they, you know, they stayed around for 10 more
years. Yeah, and those are fan favorites. Those
are kids going to these ball games. They, you
know, they love Larry Walker. They love Marquis
Grissom, and that had, especially when the Marlins,
you know, in 1997, they won the World Series,
and all those players are gone the next year.
Danny, there's a, and folks again, this book
explosion, which I've been just having a blast
reading, but without giving too much away, you've
got a chapter in here where Claude DeLorme, the
executive vice president of business affairs,
not somebody's name that people may be familiar
with in the media or the reports of the end of
the expos, but this is literally the guy that
turned off the lights for the last time in the
offices at Olympic Stadium by himself. The way
that you wrote in that chapter Danny gave me
goosebumps. It's very almost a visceral feeling
because he's kind of spending more time in Florida
at that at that time kind of getting into the
spring of 05 but he's flying back up to Montreal
to tie up some loose ends and then of course
there's a final day where you're not coming back
to that ballpark and a very lonely, very melancholy
description of how it all ended. I just can't,
and he spent 20 years with the ball club. I think
you wrote in that chapter that he would have
stayed forever. Very sad. Yeah, that what you're
telling me is just sending shivers up my spine
right now, Dan. Just thinking of Dan Claude Delon
because he was an unsung hero. who maybe most
people didn't know about, but he worked his buns
off to keep it alive as the vice president of
business operations, the stadium operations.
And at the end, on September 28th, which is the
night of the 28th after the game, all of a sudden
there was the rumor that the team is finally
moving to Washington. There had been no signal
all through the 2004 season that the team was
going to be moved. There was a schedule made
up for the 2005 season with Montreal in it. So
Claude DeLong was the guy. It wasn't the president
of the team or the general manager who kind of
was winding up the operations and doing interviews
with the media. Tony Tavares and the president
and Omar Manaya. You know, they had something
to do with the end of it, too. But Klob became
the spokesperson explaining to the media what's
going on. And they had somebody from Major League
Baseball who came to Montreal in secret conditions
to speak to the players. He was not introduced
to the crowd, but the crowd would have really
booed him. I'm not trying to remember that guy's
name, but... But in your stories, there's really
a lot of intrigue about closed alarm coming a
couple of times to Olympic Stadium for a few
months after they left for Washington and conducting
league matters, winding up the expose operations.
And then I think April, I like the way you put
it, April 30th of 2005, and he turns out the
lights for the last time. That's really... But
really, I've got shivers right now. And then,
you know, other other nameless people in the
organization, secretaries, just various office
personnel that had perhaps been with the Expos
for seven years or 10 or 12 or how there had
to have been people like that. That all of a
sudden, like you said, the end came at the end
of the season. It wasn't like they knew in July,
hey, this is going to be a wrap in a few months.
Those people weren't going to Washington. They
live and work in Montreal. They work for the
Expos. How many people do you think from the
front office were just on edge of which direction
this was going to take and then they got to go
find work somewhere else? Yeah, the rumors. and
the scuttlebutt had been going on for two or
three years ever since Major League Baseball
took over the Expos by buying the team from Jeffrey
Lawyer who bought the Florida Marlins and John
Henry came in and bought the Red Sox. So I suppose
it was not a total surprise that the yet the
Expos were moving to Washington, but it was still
a shock. On the day of the 29th, the final home
game, a lot of the players who I talked to in
that book and other books, they weren't in street
clothes. They may have been in their uniforms
too, but they walked into the Expos office to
say goodbye to the Expos employees. It was very
tearful for some of those players and the employees.
It was really heartbreaking. And, you know, after
the final game, Brad Wilkerson broke down in
tears because he was thinking of those employees
who were no longer going to have a job. So he
had to be held up and composed by Claude Raymond,
the former expo who was doing some speeches.
And he had to hold his arm around Brad Wilkerson
and tell him, you know, hang in there. But Brad
Wilkerson, he was the... epitome of the grief
and depression that took place on the final game
in September 29, 2004. Somebody had to be the
guy to carry it all on his shoulders. Yeah. I
talked to a few of those. In this book, I made
an attempt. This is my big, big attempt, although
I tried in other books, but this was a big attempt
to explore how that came about, that the team
was leaving on the 29th and that there had been
a relocation committee set up earlier in 2004
as to where they might send the exposure. It
could have been Portland, Oregon or Charlotte,
North Carolina or Nashville or So I talked to
some of those people who were on the relocation
committee and I wrote a letter to Buxillic at
his house address to see if he might talk to
me again. I'd talked to him before and he was
kind enough to talk to me, but this time he didn't
want to talk. Maybe he just didn't want to, he
talked enough about this topic. Anyway, there
is several chapters in there, Dan, about the
You know the relocation of the team so I kind
of explored that topic in a big way in this book
Another thing I wrote down here and I think this
is something you said on a podcast episode That
I really appreciate Danny because I like to have
guests on my show that sometimes it's a singer
-songwriter Just trying to get their music out
there and they're not a household name But man,
they've got some great songs or I've had some
ballplayers. I've had Major League Baseball players
former players but you said that you do a lot
of stories on players who are not stars these
are the utility men the pinch hitters the platoon
players trying to give some recognition on what
they encountered I always had a fascination with
those guys that maybe a big personality not a
big bat you know but you love seeing them seeing
them on TV when their number was called in the
ninth inning you're just thinking okay let's
one swing of the bat let's get let's get some
a couple runs in here and you really do a great
job of romanticizing those players in this book
explosion and i'm sure in some past books as
well and one that i particularly enjoyed was
being dan time was the dan norman chapter uh
dan norman who i i learned reading his story
and he's the current manager for The Chatham
Kent barnstormers, which I had a guest on the
show, Dan Cabelka, who founded or brought challenger
baseball to Chatham over 30 years ago. Challenger
baseball being a program for children and adults
with special needs. But I love the story about
Dan Norman wanted to be a stunt man, wanted to
get involved in movies and kind of reading about
his career. It sounded like everywhere he was,
whether it's Cincinnati or the Mets. He's involved
in the the Seaver trade the Reardon trade everywhere.
He goes. It's a stacked outfield. Where's he
gonna fit in? And it reminded me there's so many
players and I'm glad that you wrote that you
highlight these guys that superstars sometimes
become superstars because they Well, a lot of
them had the natural ability, but a lot of them
also got regular playing time so if you're with
an organization and You're not playing every
day at the Major League level Your narrative
maybe maybe goes a different way, but love that
stuff Danny and What are some some thoughts there
on on Dan Norman? Oh well, so see I've done some
a fair number of work in the Movie business as
an actor and sort of a part -time actor since
1995 So I found it intriguing when he started
talking that he worked in several movies and
he wanted to be a stuntman but he was, his football
team was picked to go and be part of some movie.
I forget, I don't have the book in front of me,
but so I don't think, he never did get to be,
learn to be a stuntman, but because he had some
other things he had to do and then he became
a minor league player and he played a little
bit. you know with the Expos and Mets and uh
you know he didn't as you say when he got to
the Expos the Expos were stacked and he told
me I'm not going to get much playing time here
you know you got Andre Dawson and Tim Reigns
and Warren Cromartie in the outfield where exactly
so and then he got himself a niche of coaching
baseball for many many years And that's what
he's been doing. And so Chatham Kent of the Ontario's
County Baseball League in Canada picked him to
be the manager last year in the first season
and he's back again this year. But he's like
a non -son here. You know, he never played much
in the majors. I like to humanize these part
-time players. I like to romanticize these players
because people don't necessarily hear about them
much or maybe they don't want the baseball card
or autograph because they're just part -time
players. But I think they're a really important
part of the team because without them, it wouldn't,
it gives the team credibility to have these part
-time players. You know, one of my favorite players,
I'll do a quick, in the book is Rick DeHart from
Topeka, Kansas, who found out about an exposed
training camp in Florida. So he took a Greyhound
bus from Kansas to Florida, and he ended up getting
a contract out of the camp and got enough service
time in the major leagues to get a pension plan.
So that's an example of a guy I love to talk
about. Yeah, well I was gonna ask him who is
maybe your all -time favorite utility player
I Would think that oldest Nixon and you mentioned
him at the start when he came in in 88 He had
had some drug problems with the Atlanta bird.
No now the India I forget who it was but the
expo's have had a history of reclamation projects
somebody who was in the drugs or alcohol or hearing
impediment in case of Curtis Pride, but Aldous
had some drug problems. Dennis Martinez had drug
problems. He was more of a drinking problem.
Dennis didn't have a drug problem, but they decided
to bring up Aldous Nixon from the miners a couple
of months into the 88 season and he was just
gangbusters for the Expos. on the base pass and
he was good until swing training in 1991 when
he was traded to Atlanta. So they had him for
three years and he was shocked when he was traded.
It was on April's day, April 1st and when he
came out of the meeting he said, I thought it
was an April Fool's Day joke. So and I was told
that he cried his eyes out when he was traded
to Atlanta because he loved Montreal so much.
And he was traded to give Monkeys Grissom more
playing time, because Grissom was coming into
the forefront as a pretty good player, so they
wanted to give Grissom more playing time in the
infield. But no, Older's always been great to
talk to over the years, and he always remembers
me. I've got a copy of his book from many years
ago, Keeping It Real. Yes, the same year they
brought up Rex Sutler, who was failing in the
Yankees organization. So the two of them brought
up some speed that year and put the team first.
Okay. That's it for part one of my conversation
with Danny Gallagher. Be sure to subscribe to
the Dan Time podcast on any platform. So you
catch part two as soon as it's released. And
head over to YouTube and follow me at DanTimePod.
You can watch the entire conversation, the video
episode on YouTube now. You can follow DanTime
at DanTimePod on Instagram, Facebook and X. Have
a great week.