Okay, thanks for listening to the latest episode
here of the Dan Time podcast, where as you know,
we take a tour across the Daniverse. And as I
was just telling tonight's guest, I have a real
appreciation for independent artists. And they've
really made this show what it is. And I drive
around I listen to all the music that I've promoted
on this show and this is no different This is
episode number 100. So I really wanted to queue
up a really hot artist somebody that is Doing
things differently kind of has maybe you could
say a chip on the shoulder and as he's talked
about resilience and this is just a really positive
guest with some Just a fantastic record here
for a debut And I want to say this from the start
the music on this album that we'll be talking
about this conversation These songs feel like
at least to me that you've known you've known
them in your head for many many years or maybe
From another lifetime. They have that quality
to them. But without further ado, I'd like to
welcome from the greater Philadelphia area and
more specifically West Grove Mr. Dan Orlando
Dan, how are you doing today? I'm doing excellent
Dan. It's great to be with you. Congratulations
on episode 100 Thank you. I was starting to say
I I never thought I'd get here but honestly,
that's That would be a lie because I always thought
I'd be here I didn't know how but I was never
gonna hit stop once I hit play and I feel like
you kind of had this a similar mindset Absolutely.
Absolutely, you know I remember a very specific
memory that you just triggered from college.
We had Wynton Marsalis come to give a clinic.
And he said, you know, as you all continue to
embark on this journey as artists, just remember
that you will struggle. Struggle is inevitable.
Struggle is the force that yields diamonds or
stones. And you should all be prepared to struggle
in every facet of this journey, not just the
cliche financially, but emotionally, psychologically,
spiritually, physically, logistically, in so
many different ways, the struggle is truly the
biggest gift of an artistic journey. And if you
look at anyone who you may epitomize in the space
of being an artist, I'm sure, I'm sure that there
is a struggle that feeds their journey. motivates
them to continue to push forward and express
themselves and that most of those artists and
I would put myself in this category too it's
not necessarily like they feel that they have
a choice it's almost like this life chose them
and it calls to them and it almost becomes a
vocation where you really do yourself and those
around you a disservice if you don't chase it
down to the ends of the earth and do whatever
is necessary to keep yourself in the mix and
keep creating regardless of what goes wrong and
what adversity happens. And I think that message
early on in my life really helped me prepare
for what was to come, which was a lot of that.
But at least it wasn't surprising. I had heard
from one of the greatest performers and artists
of his generation ever. that struggle was inevitable.
You will struggle. Not you might. Not there's
a chance you might. You're going to. You're heading
headfirst into a storm. So be prepared. Great
stuff, Dan. And so true. The older you get, folks,
that's going to become very apparent to you.
And it's how you handle it. You can hang around
those folks who always say, oh, I'm always a
day late, dollar short. And you'd probably agree
with this advice. Stay away. Some of these might
be family members, but as you can get get away
from those people who do not pivot around the
obstacles They just kind of wallow in it. But
sure Dan you had a really good I kind of want
to quote or paraphrase a YouTube reel when you're
talking about the heritage trail and the concept
for the record and You said it was a really difficult
time in my life. I was Fighting for my professional
and creative freedom You were having people all
around you telling you that you'd never be free
to put out your own music because of this deal
they went sour when you're in your 20s and And
you said, you know, I'm sure a lot of indie artists
can relate to this that's when you got to actually
push more you kind of step on the gas and I'd
just love to hear you speak to that a little
bit because I read that and I almost got goosebumps
Because I thought yes, it's just what that's
one of those moments where you're like he gets
it and And this stuff happens to everybody. It's
how you respond of course so absolutely, I feel
that this project is a statement of redemption
and the reason I say that is because It's an
amalgamation of things that I had written at
the time with a collaborator out of Brooklyn
named Kelsey Pierce who I wrote the lead single
music in my head with combined with songs that
had been sitting dormant and in a very a very
in -between kind of place where they didn't really
have a path to release because of a bad record
deal so and not just a bad record deal but also
an unserious partner I guess the main takeaway
is it's not the deal that you sign it's the person
you sign it with It's the people in the environment
that you you choose to partner with You know,
I looked at this deal and on paper. It was a
pretty good deal especially as independent artist
it it set myself up to Kind of make a splash,
you know through the back door Because it financed
a lot of what independent artists are looking
to finance from the beginning which is marketing
They had a lot of built -in infrastructure and
talent that was able to be there and helped me
develop in a low -pressure environment And between
that and also putting a band together and exploring
my artistic self, I got what I needed to get
out of it from an experiential standpoint. But
from a career progress standpoint, I really stalled
because it was kind of an all in one situation
where I didn't have any one particular person
advocating for me. And by the time I found that
person, it had already become apparent that the
partnership had really soured and I just saw
no path, no serious path forward, which ended
up having me spend the next three and a half
to four years in the litigation process and trying
to extricate and fight for the previous partner
to recognize the contractual obligations that
they had broken and so on and so forth. So artistically,
what I was deriving from all of that was I had
finally come to a place where I had earned that
freedom, you know, or as much freedom and distance
from that situation as I could hope to achieve,
I had earned that, you know, with the help of
people like my manager at the time and my family,
of course, and then everyone else that stuck
with me and helped me to rally and form new relationships,
particularly in the greater New York area, which
we'll touch on a little bit. But I guess what
I want to speak to that is you don't really know
how valuable your independence, your creative
freedom, your ability to maneuver without interference
is until it's gone. So, you know, every deal
and situation is different. I can't just create
a blanket solution or an anecdote for any one
particular person to follow because you have
to follow your heart. And, you know, at the time
I wanted to do that deal and I wanted to take
a chance. I wanted to take a risk and it did
lead me to a beautiful place in my life. So,
you know, life also happens for you, not necessarily
to you. However, I had felt really burdened by
the struggle for a long time. So I wanted this
album to, number one, have a path to release
and not tie it up in any other particular arrangement.
So that was from a technical standpoint. And
from an artistic, spiritual standpoint, I really
just wanted to channel How it felt to be free
again. I wanted a piano pop record that Derived
on some of my older school influences, but also
felt like it was made in the year that it was
me Yeah, which and that's really important and
you know, so partnering with Ben Jackson and
Steve Cook in Nashville for this endeavor Was
really clutch. They did a wonderful job and they
really they brought out a lot of different layers
in my artistry that that I don't have access
to, you know, as far as like producing or, you
know, just creating all of that because, you
know, being the artist and the co -writer, that's
enough of a challenge in and of itself. But I
think Ben in particular as the lead producer,
but also as a drummer, you hear a lot of the
really deft and intricate blending of drum machine
versus real drums with, you know, great parts.
Everything is very supportive and feeds into
the emotion of the song. So I feel like we achieved
that. And now that that record has had an opportunity
to be out there and matriculate and help me build
an audience, it's so freeing. It's so freeing
to live in a world where, at least in my own
universe, there's something that's out there
that people can access that I can represent on
a nightly basis on stage. start doing band showcases,
start directing people towards that. And now,
Dan, to be honest with you, my philosophy is
I want to build an audience on the strength of
my releases and my shows. I want to create a
level of momentum for my artistry. And I think
in this environment, it's almost better to go
slow. and build the kind of momentum that opens
up opportunities that you can't necessarily foresee
now, but they may present themselves rather than
just saying, well, I need to gun for a licensing
deal with one of the big three majors or I got
to get a publishing deal so I can funnel this.
Yeah, all of that's fine. You know, that could
present itself, but not in a vacuum and certainly
not at the expense of creating and writing and
kind of doing a self -audit of what's working
and what's not. And also not being afraid to
be in a room where people challenge you. People
tell you, you know, this song may need another
section. This vocal, I'm not really feeling this
emotionally. Collaborating. If you feel like
you've had a great song, but it's kind of sitting
at the 40, 50 yard line, see if you can partner
up with somebody and, you know, they can help
you find the rest of that voice and the rest
of that story that you might have been missing.
I love what you said right there, the collaboration
part, because I feel like there's definitely
some independent artists who, they're very proud
of their work, but it just, you can, when you
listen to some songs, not, it's not always a
dead giveaway, but sometimes you can hear parts
and you're thinking, okay, there was, I don't
think there was another set of eyes on this.
I don't think, or another set of ears on this.
It's not bad, but it's not great. And I love
what you said there about having that collaborative
spirit. Well, think about it from a statistical
standpoint, right? every one person has a finite
but very valuable set of experiences and perspective
and a different network of people and memories
and The way in which they think about things
and the way in which they create and the way
in which they manifest the message that they
want to express so Just by partnering with somebody
else you give your art access To a whole different
spectrum of perspective and all of those strengths
and weaknesses combined No, no, I'm saying you
can leave this in the actual episode But I'm
I'm like double parts by a meter and I've had
three people come like are you leaving are you
leaving? You know, the are you leaving crowd?
Like yeah, no, I'm not leaving like I'm taking
a call Oh and for my listeners Dan has been gracious
enough he's got a show to perform tonight at
the slow hand in Westchester PA and Cannot tell
you how much I appreciate you jumping through
some hoops here to Because I respect the love
and appreciation that you're bringing for it's
our name Dan which I don't know if this is historically
accurate But it's what I've heard at least the
biblical interpretation of Daniel is God is my
judge That's which is a poetic way of saying
I don't really care what anybody else thinks
about So just by virtual listening named Dan,
we automatically get to give a finger to the
rest of the world and we didn't even realize
it. Our parents blessed us with an eternal spiritual
compass. Yes. Yeah, Dan, going back to what I
said at the top of the episode, these songs,
they feel or they sound complete. They sound
finished. They sound like they belong in 2023,
2024, even 2025. but they also and I know that
uh before we get too deep in the episode you
actually perform with a trio from the classic
Billy Joel era those early records turnstiles
the stranger 52nd street um I don't know if you're
currently doing that but absolutely people might
be able to hear some of the influence but Dan
Orlando is not a carbon copy of Billy Joel but
I love Dan like I said these songs they just
sound appropriate for the now and you're going
bold with kind of uh positioning the piano vocalist
at the forefront again to me it feels like it's
it's been missing it's not like nobody does it
anymore but the way you do it I just I'm all
over this record Dan I'm not just saying that
because we're fellow dance but thank you yeah
well I I I do feel like there is a closed highway
that if someone can access it there is an appetite
for another piano man and I've always I've always
chased that ambition and I haven't been shy about
it. I think I'm the next piano man and the reason
I say that is because Billy Joel is an artist
and somebody that I'll be chasing for the rest
of my life, but in the process of doing that
Haven't always focused too much like the carrot
the stick kind of deal and I tell musicians this
all the time like Just by virtue of loving that
music and that artist There's going to be enough
of an influence on you that it's really important
to diversify your skill sets in your ears as
Often as possible so that you can bring a different
evolved next generation type of flavor To what
you're doing in that space. So of course Billy
Joel's gonna influence my piano playing to the
extent that I'm doing pop constructs, but it
doesn't mean that along the way I didn't discover
great bands like Keane or Coldplay or Jamiroquai
or Rufus Wainwright or John Legend, especially,
you know, the first couple of albums. The list
goes on. Regina Spector, I think, is somebody
who really creatively deploys the piano in a
way that you haven't really heard before. Ben
Folds. So there's there's been a lot of artists
that have done it their own way however with
the immense like as much amount of respect as
possible to everyone I just mentioned it's the
hardest it's the hardest nut to crack in this
industry is the singer -songwriter at the very
very top and so you know for Billy Joel to have
done that as often as he did it a lot of it involved
taking risks A lot of it involved partnering
with great producers like Phil Ramone. So where
I can borrow from the playbook, I do. And I'm
not shy about it. And you just mentioned playing
with his original band. So I'm going to try to
keep this the condensed version. But when I was
living in the Hudson Valley, New York, my manager
at the time, we had set up a showcase in the
fall of 2016 in the city to spite my label. because
we had just entered our like dispute era if you
will and so we did it even though they warned
us like don't do it and then they didn't really
say or what but I was like well we already planned
the showcase so you know we're going off with
it and she was able to hire Richie Kanata who
is the great saxophone player from all those
early Billy Joel records He's the soloist from
New York State of Mind, scenes from an Italian
restaurant, it's still rock and roll to me, only
the good dayong, big shot, moving out. All those
horns that you hear that laid the groundwork
for the Billy Joel sound that we know today,
that's Richie Cannata. So he led a horn section
on this showcase and we immediately clicked.
And he then looked after me as a mentor, somebody
that called me on a regular basis because in
his words, you know, we need young people that
are really playing music and leading bands and
trying to do this the right way. And he never
like lost touch with me. A couple years later,
he and I were both at Bernie Williams' birthday
party. Bernie's a former New York Yankee, great,
and now a very impressive guitar player. I've
had the fortune of being his music director and
band member for also like the last six years.
So he was a mutual friend. It was all kind of
connected in the same scene, right? And That
night at Bernie's birthday party, he set up a
jam session where Richie and I got to play together
for a couple of hours. And that's when he said,
you know, I want to invite you to audition for
my band. Our lead singer's starting to branch
out, do his own thing so the spot may be open.
And I auditioned. And at the time, you know,
between the record dispute, my living situation
was very odd. I was all over the place. I had
a lot of baggage that was not easy to circumvent.
And Richie did it anyway, and he fought for me
to have this gig. And so now I've been their
lead singer for the past five and a half years.
The trio for your audience is Richie Cannata,
Liberty DeVito, who was Billy Joel's drummer
from the beginning all the way up to the River
of Dreams record, and Russell Javers, who did
about a 10 -year stint with him on the road and
on all the records as well playing guitar. And
so the cosmic sort of strange part of all of
this is that rather than The goal being I got
to be on a stage with Billy Joel or you know
opening like Because I was trying to fight my
way out of a deal and these guys were sort of
fighting for people to recognize Their reputation
and what they meant to the Billy Joel sound It's
not really an aggressive fight, but it's like
you mentioned a chip on their shoulder They have
one too, and we brought that out of each other.
You know I'm angling to be the next channel man,
and these guys backed him up and made the sound
what it is, along with Phil Ramone. That's the
Billy Joel sound that took him to a completely
different stratosphere and thus that band. And
so to sit in with those guys and feel that sensation
and play that book and see what it does to people,
I think was sort of the last dragon that I needed
to slay so that when you and I have a conversation
like this and I tell you I'm going to be the
next piano man, I can back it up. Oh my gosh.
I'm just like ready to jump out of my chair right
now Dan. I love this stuff People might hear
that as bravado. I'm okay with that if you think
about the the moniker Because there's only one
that the piano man Billy Joel if you take piano
out of that It's the man and I think people maybe
in this day and age are just afraid to say I
want to be the guy I want to be the man. I want
to go out there and crush it and everything I'm
hearing from you is just losing that ambition.
But Dan, I wanted to, oh gosh, I forgot to mention,
if you talk to Richie, and I don't know if he
probably remembers this guy, but I had Dan King
from Gloucester, Massachusetts. He collaborated
with David Brown that was on maybe one record
there with that trio. He was on Glass Houses
through Stormfront. Yes, he's on a number of
things. And we just lost David Brown a little
while ago. But that's really neat. I will mention
Dan King to Richie the next time we chat. Probably
the next day or two. We talk a lot. But I wanted
to also focus on these songs a little bit and
the ones that really stood out to me. Joshua
Baca, if I'm pronouncing that right. I listened
to that episode or watched some of that episode
on the Resilient Insights podcast where you talked
about Out of the Blue being a real standout for
you. I was telling you the other day when we
were emailing about need to hear you say it,
I think that's still my favorite. Great overriding
theme on this album, Dan, is it's kind of a narrative,
maybe tapping into the past, coming back to the
present, getting people to remember those memories,
the second song, First Love, or First Loves.
I like some of the audience engagement, percussion
and clapping and... Especially with first loves.
I wrote in my notes here. It gets you on your
feet immediately Great flow to this album. I
like in Present day. I like an LP versus a string
of singles for two years before we get the album
patched together I know that's kind of how things
are. It's just little snack -sized bites for
for the masses Not against that the same way.
I'm the same way Dan I think a body of work is
really important and I really appreciate the
kind words And I know, yes, you mentioned Need
You Here You Say. It was one that you really
liked and favored. And so that would be an example
of a song that I wrote while I was in Florida
under the pretenses of that deal that didn't
really go south. But again, there were a lot
of things that went right. They just never really
made it to market. My collaborator on that is
Jason Pennock. He's a great writer. He was mostly
an LA guy. And then he and I linked up in Florida,
in St. Pete. So we wrote a number of songs that
are gonna come out Over the next couple of cycles
or so and I tend to partner and gravitate with
great lyricists But I usually end up bringing
the core message First and then a lyricist kind
of helps me figure it out in a way where the
prose is As strong as the melody and arrangement
that I'm bringing to the table. I think a lot
of times at least in my experience anyway There's
so much training and time that you have to put
into getting your instrument ready. And I'm a
chord guy. That's really what I love about writing
the most. I love finding chords and melodies
and harmonic rhythm that speaks to people. I
love kind of studying and utilizing performances
and settings of the movement of chords and whether
they're minor or major, when they happen upon
next to each other and the different vibes that
that creates without the words really being prominent
yet. So like an example I would use is like a
need to hear you say it. I think the harmonic
rhythm is pretty slow upfront because you know
I wanted to kind of lay the groundwork and tell
the story and so that's when the lyricist comes
in with a lot of different details and you know
we work them out together and then the harmonic
rhythm progresses the chords happen faster as
the chorus starts to pick up on a lot of tension
and the bridge comes through so in that particular
one I'm proud of the fact that everything kind
of works together you know one the the chords
and the rhythms and and the drum machines and
and the eventual breadth of the track give way
to the release of a lot of tension where I'm
really just trying to tell somebody that I have
feelings for them and that I would love to hear
them say it too. That we had been through enough
together and we had really been vulnerable enough
with each other that it was almost like, well,
what are you waiting for? But everybody comes
to that stage in a relationship where you're
either going to take the next step or you're
going to step down. It doesn't always necessarily
mean a ring or marriage or a house or a kid or
anything like that. It's just that crossing into
that serious plane. And so you look back on that
song and that memory and that time in my life,
it's fascinating. And also, like I told you,
it just it feels good that it's out and we can
talk about it. We can share it. That was one
in particular that had really no pathway to market.
it was a struggle so you know that that one I
look favorably on too only because I go wow you
know it really made it first love same thing
same collaborator on both of those songs Dan
I love uh also and need to hear you say it the
drums there's I think there's a a kick drum that
starts to appear but not in the very beginning
and it's about a minute and a half before uh
the full drums come into play and I'm a sucker
for that kind of stuff right Right. Yeah, that
was Ben's call. He did a great job with what
he calls scene changes. So he's very particular
about keeping the listener engaged and knowing
that the song needs to grow and experience, like
he said, scene changes and different movements
and layers of listening so that you can continue
to pique the interest while also not taking away
from the emotional connectivity, which he really
preached was the most important part of getting
this record done, which was tapping into the
emotional center and figuring out, you know,
what it took to help people connect with the
song. And, you know, in his mind, and I agree
and share this philosophy as well, that's priorities
one through 10, and then 11 through 100 or everything
from like, who likes the first mix? To you know,
what order does the album go in? But the first
ten priorities are the emotional connection to
the song and the performance of the song First
loves I had a comment there. I like this or no,
I'm sorry. Tell me what you're thinking I wrote
my notes here is real real playful. That's the
word I wrote down and I love Tell me where your
mind goes. Oh That technique if you call it that
it's probably a better way to say it Uh -huh,
but this record. Yeah, I was I drive around and
listen to music that's mostly how I do and it's
usually when we're driving or maybe people are
going for a run it's when your mind opens up
and Some of this stuff is for the here and now
and some of it for me I'm a little bit older
it takes me back to those relationships that
were stuck between love and lust And I'm like,
oh, yeah, I remember that one You don't want
to go back there, but it's it's you do get to
a point in life where it's It's fun to reflect
back Absolutely, and it's important especially
for artists And right before the the next to
last song is just you and piano Why do I run
is that one of the Florida songs or is that a
past couple years? I? appreciate the question
that that's more the past couple years and The
inspiration for it Was I was kind of going for
a blend of Bob Dylan and Gabe Dixon who's another
great? Artist that I don't think people talk
about enough wonderful piano player and vocalist
really just sizzles on record and on stage he's
phenomenal and so he I think has really come
up with a lot of ways to Travis pick on a piano,
you know where like you would hear a guitarist
oscillate amongst the strings and create a wall
of sound uh -huh Gabe Dixon in my mind really
He came up with a lot of really neat ways to
do that on our instrument. And so that was the
musical template and the groundwork I was going
for. But that was one I wrote by myself and I
just kind of treated it like a journal entry
or, you know, maybe if you were like sitting
with a therapist and trying to figure out why
so many well -meaning situations in my life had
just completely fallen apart, you know, where
they built on a house of cards. Did I not see
around corners that I should have seen? And I
was having a conversation with my mother and
she's a real yogi, loves to meditate, loves to
reflect in a beautiful way. And she mentioned
something about pattern interrupting. When you
get to a point in your life where you can take
a couple of steps back and do a 360 view and
go, what is it that I keep doing that limits
the life that I want to live. You know, what
is it that maybe I keep perpetuating? And I guess
from my standpoint, I don't know how fair I was
being, but I just allowed myself to have a moment
of like, well, then why do I run? You know, where
there are situations where I could have fought
harder or wrangled things differently. But then,
you know, Dan, that's not life either. So, you
know, you only know what you know at the time.
You don't have the benefit of hindsight. You
can't... go through a wormhole and be 36 when
you're 26 or 26 when you're 16. You just have
to grow up and take all of this as it comes.
And so that song is really just an open kind
of window into my sadness, but also my relief
and the peace that I'm trying to make with how
my life has transpired in ways that which could
have been different. or ways in which did I,
should I have stayed in thought or should I have
fled. And at least with that song, you know,
I make a piece with it. So that's also, it was
a very deliberate choice for it to be solo and
for Ben to kind of surround it with some different
textures. And then lyrically, I just wanted the
audience and my fans to understand what my takeaways
were and be with me in a moment that was sorrowful,
but also reflect and Maybe from this moment on,
I'm not going to run anymore. I'm going to fight
for the life that I want. I'm going to advocate
for the life that I want and whatever, whoever
is in my way, I'm going to either work through
them or around them. And whoever is by my side,
I'm taking them with me. Terrific stuff, Dan.
I love every bit of that. Wanted to throw this
out here to Joshua Baca said it best on his podcast.
People asking him, who is this Dan Orlando guy?
Why is his album so good? I mean, I was just
stunned with how great it is and it's not globally
just smashing Through the boundaries or whatever,
but it's Just put you in a good place Wow, well,
I know we're running short on time, but a couple
other quotes I wrote down here from you. I would
be useless doing anything else. I Love that one
I'm so glad you're not doing anything else and
always thinking about music. I think you've also
described yourself as, hey, look, the music,
I can't get away from it. I'm always thinking
about melodies and hooks and try as I might,
this is me, so. Always, yes. Music was an easier
mode of expression for me as a child than it
was to speak. So, and I didn't discover I had
perfect pitch until about like I was 10 or 11,
but I started memorizing keys of songs and then
correlating them to keys on the piano and keys
as a whole. And then, you know, fast forward,
sometimes I can't shut up. I'm quiet at first,
but then you get me going. It's, you know, someone
has to walk out with the cane or the wrap it
up box from Chappelle show, you know. And, um,
well, at dance time, you can always get going
on here. Exactly exactly right exactly right,
but no it's it's been a pleasure to revisit some
of these memories to talk about this album with
you and Again, you know congratulations on your
hundredth episode And I'm really honored that
I was the guest to mark this milestone. I do
have to run so that I can go get paid Yes But
really Dan, thank you for having me on and you're
thoughtful and considerate questions and the
time that you spent with the project It really
shows and I hope we can talk again soon Absolutely,
Dan. Well everybody anything I didn't mention
bio wise you'll see it in the show notes go to
Dan Orlando jr. Dot com Dan if they want to follow
you on social media Yes at Dan Orlando jr. On
social media. That's me. Okay, and if you're
in the greater Philadelphia area this summer
this fall Go check him out. You can see that
his performance schedule on the website and before
we leave Dan Congratulations, I did see You've
got a baby girl coming in September Thank you
so much. Yes, we sure do my wife and I are thrilled
and Mom and baby are healthy and on the path.
So that's all we want I pray every day for that
and thank you for your well wishes in that regard
I appreciate it wonderful stuff Great talking
to you today. Let's reconnect in the future when
you have some more material or something else
to promote. I'd love to have you back on. I would
love that, Dan. Thank you so much. All right.
Well, that's it for episode number 100 of the
Dan Time podcast, Dan Orlando. Check him out.
The album is called Heritage Trail and you can
find it wherever you discover new music.