I'm very excited I took a look at everything
and I think I think it's a fascinating idea there's
so many there's so many Dan's and Daniel's and
Danielle's and Danny's and oh man we need to
we need to limit the name or or you know retire
it or you know pause it let it have a cool down
something But you got a brilliant idea, so, hey.
Oh, well, thanks, Dan. Yeah, it was, you know,
like you said, you start realizing, well, there's,
you know, Danny for short, D -A -N -I, and then,
of course, guys named Danny with the Y. I thought,
well, shoot, let's just explore the whole Daniverse.
Hey, and that's brilliant. There's so, so many.
So, yeah, I think you finally, you did it. of
one time it's been it's been several years ago
but i'm still friends with a few of these people
on social media but i want to say maybe right
before covid i got added to a massive group chat
on facebook that was nothing except other people's
names dan williams which is a little bit more
specific than what you've got going here but
i'm just assuming there's got to be all these
other group chats out there you know it's like
all right Trust me. It has crossed my mind and
I've done some some light research on other Dan
McArdles in the world, which there are a few
so I have Scratched the surface. I've seen a
few out there and I thought well, let's not just
What when I stick to? Creative types, you know,
you get people that are maybe a little animated.
They have a story to tell maybe something to
promote so not Every Dan is a perfect candidate
I turn to the world where all Dan's have a pursuit
that they are just enamored with and fueled by.
I would love it. But to your point, yeah, they,
it's not everybody out here in the grind because
the grind sucks. So I already had this moment.
Well, Dan, it's great to officially welcome you
to the Dan Time Podcast. Thank you so much for
carving out some time in your busy schedule.
I appreciate it. Thank you so much for having
me. I found your Facebook page, which led me
to Lindy Urban and which led me to Ghost River
Revival. And I didn't know until just a little
while ago that you're also an English instructor.
Is that correct? That is, yeah. That's where
I actually met our mutual acquaintance. Well,
you know, going to college to become one, but
yeah. I teach at a small community college in
northwest Alabama. I'm very fortunate. I love
it and obviously I love music as well. We like
to joke that there's much easier ways to go broke,
so you have to love it. Yeah, it's good times
all around. Well, for Ace, maybe it was a year.
It was my second grade year and a little bit
into the following summer, I lived in Florence,
Alabama. So not too, too far from Muscle Shoals.
Oh, no, no, no. That is, man, the Quad Cities
are one city that just, they've not made peace
with it yet. Muscle Shoals, Ciscumbia, Florence,
and Sheffield like to pretend they're four different
towns. But if you, if you look at the population
of those four towns, you got one, one decent
sized metro area. They just need to go ahead
and unite and call it a day. Although, with you
being in Florence, across the river, and you
know, folks around here do not love to cross
that river for some reason. Yeah, I remember
that we, you know, I knew Sheffield was there.
I don't think we went over to Sheffield very
often. Does everybody kind of hang out in their
little pocket areas? Really, yeah. It's a weird
little town. The whole thing is kind of strange.
So, you know, there's Muscle Shoals, which, with
you having lived in Florence, be really familiar
with the area, but for anybody listening that's
not, the city, you know, it's a little famous.
You know, it's had a rich history for recordings
that have been made there. And that being said,
it's a big selling point. Over the past few years,
we've still had people like Steven Tyler coming
in. We've had a number of celebrities that still
come to the Shoals and Report. But one of the
primary reasons for that is that it's a small
town and there's not a whole terrible lot to
do there. Muscle Shoals, it's only 100 years
old. We recently celebrated the centennial of
town. So it doesn't even have a downtown area,
right? A lot of towns that formed after automobiles
started to become at least more common or really
any kind of transportation started to become
more common. A lot of those towns don't have
downtown centers because there was not that pressure
to have this one central spot. So Muscle Shoals
is strange. And then like you're saying Sheffield,
You know, it does have a small downtown, but
there's not really a whole lot going on there
a lot of times. The same thing with Tuscambia.
So yeah, it takes all three of them combined
to make really one functional area. It's really
strange. Dan, I think people, of course, if you
listen to rock and roll and you like classic
rock, Wherever you live around the country, around
the world, maybe people are familiar with that
line. Muscle Shoals has got the Swampers. Oh,
absolutely. Sweet home Alabama. Oh yeah, man.
And part of the reason for that line is that
Skinner famously recorded quite a bit in Muscle
Shoals, especially towards the beginning of their
career. Their album, and somebody would probably
need to fact check me on this, but I do a bit
of work for the local music museum, so that's
more of a passion thing. But I tend to know a
little bit about the stuff. Skinnerd, their album,
Skinnerd's First and Last, that was released
after the plane crash, it largely was going to
be their first major release. However, for reasons
I'm actually not sure of at this moment. It ended
up, those tapes ended up getting shelved, but
posthumously that record was released and it
was because, yeah, Skinnerd had recorded an entire
album of material in Muscle Shoals and at once,
yeah, it's out there now as Skinnerd's first
and last. So yeah, it's just this little corner
of the world. It's really, really rich in musical
history. So much, you know, Aretha Franklin recorded
here, Great Sid, Etta James. Of course, the sound
song Wild Horses was written there. To be such
a small area and that's such a small population,
it's really kind of astounding how much has come
from the area over the years. And like you said,
some of those big name artists, Steven Tyler,
Mick Jagger, Aretha Franklin, probably When they're
in the heat or the peak of their careers, it's
nice to just get out of that limelight the the
crowds and the adulation and you can't walk into
a convenience store or grocery store just to
go to a small town and not have so many distractions
and That was you know from what people have said
over the years from what I've been told over
the years because you know a lot of the swampers
they I was very lucky and you know, mostly about
the time I started working in music in the area,
mostly they were still alive and I was very fortunate
to get to talk and work and learn from, you know,
many of them. And that was the thing that they
very often did come back to was that one of the
things that really made the area special was,
yeah, these massive artists that were were nationally
and internationally famous, they could come here
and they could work. Like you said, they could
bob down at the corner store and not get hassled.
They could go out and eat and there's a good
chance nobody would even recognize them, things
like that. All that to come together and say
it's strange that the area has had such a rich
musical history, whenever you consider that it's
a tiny town. Off the top of my head. I want to
say there might be It might be 80 or 90 thousand
people in the metro area for that city. It's
not large by any means but yeah, it's fantastic
Especially if you you know like to work in music
Well, I want to call out some acclaim or whatever
you would how you would describe it here Grant
Walden a the producer engineer in produced the
latest singles from Ghost River Revival, Medicine
Woman, and Secrets. Dan, he said about you that
Dan Williams is one of the best bassists in the
biz. He's basically a unicorn, which to me, that's
one of the best compliments you could get. Well,
Grant is very kind. He's one of my favorite people.
We've actually, he and I have known each other
since we were in middle school and it's... you
know, neither of us are natively from the Shoals
area. We're actually from, you know, about 40
miles out of the area, extraordinarily rural
area, the town we came from, you know, not even
incorporated, that sort of thing. So it was really
strange that we both ended up in music and both
ended up in Muscle Shoals. So I've had a long
time to know and love for him, and he is a very
kind person with that compliment. I will that
that that Well, Dan, I'm really impressed with
the the music. I mean, two singles with two different
songwriters released in with about a week of
each other. March 28th, the latest single from
Lindy Urban, April Rain released and then about
a week prior, Medicine Woman from Ghost River
Revival. I got to say, Dan, I love both of these
songs, but man when April rain kicks in and if
you appreciate music and you especially like
the rhythm section I was driving around I thought
okay it is it is time for the bottom end here
we go it's just a I love your bass sound on April
rain and how you just you guys just kind of sit
in that groove and I think there's a in that
song where you know maybe another songwriter
might be Three and a half minutes 345. Let's
wrap this thing up It sounds like the song is
kind of drawing to a close and then wait a second
We're gonna ride this out a little longer that
I love that Dan It was a joy. It was a joy to
work on that Wendy is phenomenally talented.
She's and so she's only 17 It's absurd that she's
talented as she is especially at that age And,
you know, one of the other reasons that that
session was a joy, the people involved in working
on that, you know, we use a couple of different
drummers, but both of them were extremely accomplished
people. You know, they both worked at several
studios in the area throughout the years. One
of the key players, one of the guys that they're
playing piano, the man by the name of Mark Normar,
who, if you listen to country music, Any time,
you know, between the late 80s and the mid 2000s,
you heard some of his songs. He had multiple
number one hits that he wrote. So he's fantastically
talented. The other guy, the guy that was on
organ is a fellow by the name of Spooner Oldham,
who is in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. So,
you know, I'll be honest with you, I was terrified
for most of those sessions, even though I played
with you know these people before uh and i've
recorded with these people before but it's always
you can only um you can only walk into a studio
and and be ready to get to work and have you
know a couple of the the older guys in there
talking about how they worked with i think the
last time i walked in into a moment like that
spooner was talking about a party he had gone
to at Liberace's house way back in the day. And
then, you know, there was another event we were
going to do this dinner and he unfortunately
was unable to do that because he's been playing
with Neil Young for years and years and years
and years. And he got the phone call to come
up and play some shows with him. So I'm sorry,
I got to go on a plane and go do this. I was
thinking, yeah, nobody here pulls rank on that
guy. It's easy to sound. It's easy to be in the
groove and to sound good whenever you're fortunate
enough to be playing with people like that, people
that are working at that caliber. But I appreciate
the compliments. I was very thrilled with how
that turned out. Oh, it just gels beautifully.
Lindy's vocals she goes low, but she seems to
finish high some of these outros on her Those
three singles April rain darkness follows and
ain't bound now. I think she usually has kind
of a high outro, but she has a surprise She said
that she's 17. She's got a very seasoned voice
and style. It seems like she's been doing this
for a while You would think so but It's one of
those situations. She has been playing music
since she was 12, but she's only started performing
in the past year and a half or so. She's really,
really just getting started. I don't use the
term lightly, but I think prodigy might be applicable
here because it's amazing watching her learn
and grow because there's things that I've seen.
more seasoned players take some time to learn
how to do. I've witnessed her watch one of these
guys do it once or twice and then just go do
it. It's just like something in her head. It's
like, oh yeah, obviously this is exactly how
you do this thing that has taken some people
years to master. She just learns so quickly.
It's fantastic. Truly think she's got a wonderful
wonderful career in front of her. I When I was
listening to darkness follows released at the
end of February It's a pretty heavy song too.
And it reminded me that I had I Had a letter.
It was like several pages long from a long time
ago, maybe 15 or 20 years ago that I wrote to
a You know a former love interest and and I never
mailed it I never hand delivered it. I kept it
and I, and it's in my storage unit, but she's
laying it all out there. And this is so relatable.
Kind of sounds like, Hey, listen, you still have
a place in my heart. I'm still there for you.
I just, it kind of sounds like a, some negative
energy that she's just chosen. I can't be around
this. I wanted more, but, um, it's not, this
is not helping me to be with you. So I just love
the song I love her courage in the her songwriting
here Well, you know, I think she'd be very thrilled
to hear that I'm pretty sure it's negative energy.
It might have been exactly some of the phrase
she used When she was talking to me about about
how the song was was written and being developed
and coming along and You know telling me the
story behind it. I think yeah, I think she'd
be thrilled to hear that you find it to be so
relatable. That's not always the case you know
sometimes you you create something and you put
it out in the world and whatever whatever people
take and do but that's you know that's how they
understand it that's how they they understand
the art and there's certainly nothing wrong with
that it it's nice to make something that that
a person finds meaningful uh no matter exactly
how they interpret it but I saw the stories she's
told me and what she's said, it feels like you
honed right into the heart of it. I'll pass it
along. I think she'll be thrilled to hear that.
It is a very relatable song, which, you know,
it's tragic in itself that it's so relatable
to so many people, but it absolutely is. And
that song surprised all of us as well, because,
you know, I know you've interviewed a lot of
people that work in music. you never know what
to expect when a song releases or anything like
that. Especially if this is a small project,
you know, she's young and we're, you know, some
of us that have been around a little bit longer
trying to help her out in a number of ways, but
even then you can't, unless you're one of the
major players, you can't really control how something
like this is going to go. And that song released
and a couple of mornings later, I got this real
excited text message from her. It was a screenshot
of a playlist that had been added to on Spotify
and I thought, yeah right, there's no way. But
I went and I looked and yeah, the official account
of Joe Bonham Awesome had added that song to
one of his playlists that's publicly facing on
his Spotify page. And I've been feeling pretty
good about that for about a month now, I'm not
gonna lie. But yeah, there's no predicting what's
gonna happen. All you can do is do your best
to make something that people will enjoy and
hope that people find it and resonate. I'm thrilled
to hear that you're enjoying the music. That's
the highest compliment that you can pay anybody,
I think, that the creative is that, hey, I found
this thing and I really appreciate it. Yes, and
I do like on occasion You know, it doesn't have
to be every song, but I like when a song like
this, it doesn't clock in and clock out at, you
know, three minutes and 12 seconds. This one
goes on. You can let it kind of wash over you.
You just kind of get lost in the song. And I
wanted to ask, when she comes into the studio,
have you guys already seen the lyrics and you're
maybe guiding her and saying, well, why don't
we try this? And you come up with a certain sequence
or a rhythm section. How does it go with a song
like this? Do you give her some recommendations,
or does she say, this is what I would like for
it to sound like? It's a little a column A, a
little a column B. So what happens like this,
and it's a little bit of a different situation,
because after the first EDO session, I've been
playing with Lindy a bit more. We musically,
we clicked pretty well. For all the jokes about
bass players, it's hard to find a bass player
that is, I don't want to say reliable, that's
not the right word, but it's hard to find one
that grooves the way you want them to. So I've
been very fortunate that I've picked up that
opportunity from that. But the way a recording
session like that often works is the songwriter,
in this case, Lindy, will have... made a recording
of the song on, very often on her phone. I think
hers was on her phone. So, you know, we cut five
songs that weekend and she had recorded those
five and she sent those files to one of the guys
on the session, Mark, and he wrote out a chart.
He uses a file that's called the National Number
System and if you took any music in high school
at all then it probably looks real familiar to
you because it's really based around scale degrees
but it's a way to to communicate how a song is
constructed and the chord movements and things
like that without necessarily having people that
know how to read music because you know a lot
of pop musicians don't don't read so yeah what'll
happen is somebody will Very often it's, here's
the song, it's been recorded, send the work tape
to somebody in the session. They'll make charts
for everybody. And, you know, what we did is
we just, we went in the studio, we listened to
those demo tapes a couple of times, made notes,
asked questions. I'll think to about 10 minutes.
And then you just go out on the floor and you
do it. You know, one of those songs, I think
it might have been April Rain. I want to say
that took us about two and a half hours to get
a take we were happy with. But the flip side
to that is that the first song that it released,
Ain't Bound Now, I think we had a keep or take
of that within 30 minutes. And yeah, it's just
you learn to read chart and you kind of have
an idea if you've been doing this long enough,
you have an idea of what your instrument's role
in a song is. And yeah, you you ask the artist
what they want, and sometimes they have real
specific requests. There was a bass run in one
of these songs, and we recorded these back in
August, so my memory's a little foggy at this
point. There was one of those songs where Lindy
did have a specific request, but the rest of
the time it was we do a thing, hey, do you like
this, yes or no, and if it's no we go back to
the trial and board and if it's yes we keep it
and yeah that's it's a little bit different everywhere
you know um there's some much busier music towns
where it's you go in and you know if if it's
taking you more than 30 minutes to cut a song
uh you may not be getting paid um but it's for
the most part no it's it's just you hear the
song that the artist sends the demo they send
and you listen and you cut it but it is very
different from a situation like well with like
the other act you mentioned Ghost River Revival
that is a band that is pretty well rehearsed
and it's a collaborative effort as opposed to
you know one or two people that are creating
the things and then everybody's showing up at
the studio to learn it you know there and do
it. That man had an opportunity a couple of weeks
ago to go to a studio up in Nashville that their
thing is recording to analog tape. The studio
is called Welcome to 79, and they do things there
like how the industry, how recording worked in
the late 70s, early 80s, things like that, before
things started to become digital, which means
that there's really no take backs, right? Punch
-ins are much more rare. You know, if you make
a mistake, you got to really sit there and think,
okay, how significant was this mistake? Is it
enough to make the whole band come in here and
do this again? But the reason I bring that up
is that process I just talked about with Wendy
is very different because Ghost River, we went
in and a song that I wouldn't necessarily say
it's complicated, but it's got a lot of moving
pieces. We got to keep her take for it the second
time. The first time we ran it, said we like
it, we probably got a better one in us, ran it
again and said, okay, that's it, we'll go do
some overdubs later, but that's the track. So
yeah, it depends on, are we talking about a situation
where the artist is hiring musicians or are we
talking about a situation where it's a total
band unit? Again, Ghost River's made up of a
lot of people that are studio musicians in the
area. So it's, I don't want to say unfair to
say, yeah, that the second attempt was successful
and that that's actually pretty common. We did
another song that weekend that was complicated
and we called it on the third try. it's just
the difference between having people that are
seasoned and rehearsed together and then having
people that are coming in to hear a song for
maybe the first or second time and creating their
part on the spot based off charts and then recording
that together. Naturally, that second one is
probably going to take a little bit longer because
you're coming up with everything there on the
spot. one not being better or worse. They're
just different ways of doing things. And Dan,
some of these other musicians that you work with
or that appear on Lindy's songs like Tanisha
Hodge, Banking Vocals, Michael Dillon, Drums,
are some of these players, people that you've
worked with on other projects that you've known
for a long time? It's funny, the two people that
you mentioned, it was the first time I had ever
worked with either one of them. But they're old
pros, man, and I don't mean older than their
age. I mean, they've been doing it for a long
time. And, you know, actually watching both of
them work was, I felt like I learned a lot from
the two of them because they just, you know,
they came in and they just did what they were
supposed to do and nailed it, you know, right
off the bat, right out of the gate on the first
shot. It was simultaneously humbling and empowering.
you know, just to see, it's nice to see people
that are really good at what they do, doing their
thing. You know, there's something, yeah, there's
just something wonderful about being, whatever
somebody's good at, watching them get up there
and do it, and I don't know, that feels like
it, it feeds me.