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Welcome to the latest episode of the Dan Time

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Podcast. I am your host, Dan McCardle. Thanks

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for being here. Thanks for the buy -in. If you've

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been listening for a while, you know that sometimes

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it's Danny Time around here, sometimes Danielle,

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Daniella, Daniel, any number of the family of

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names as I call it. And then, as you saw last

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week, I took you on a detour with Sean Perry.

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No Dan story, no connection, and no real explanation

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from me there. But hey, we all need a break from

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time to time. This show is no exception. I think

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what I described a few months ago as Dan fatigue.

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It's a real thing. And I always got to be careful

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not to wear it out. OK, some great episodes over

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the past few weeks. I certainly hoped it. You've

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enjoyed them, learned something, felt something,

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felt like maybe your passions or yearnings or

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even your struggles were represented. Well, today

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the time is right. Perhaps it has taken me too

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long, but I'm presenting to you the first Dana

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on this podcast. It is such an honor to introduce

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to you a pros pro singer songwriter musician.

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and a veteran live performer who has lived and

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made music in Canada, Taiwan, the UK, and won

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over audiences and gained the respect of her

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peers. If her music is not already in your catalog,

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you're going to wish you'd been on to these songs,

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these records years ago. But it's never too late

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to catch up as I found out. Dana Wiley is my

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guest today. She's been performing over three

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decades. She sings, plays piano, guitar, multiple

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instruments, writes, records, and is a self -described

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lifelong student of musical histories and cultures.

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This from her website, Dana's crystal clear voice

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will cut straight through to your heart, and

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just to make it a fair deal, her songs will give

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you a direct route to hers. Now, I discovered

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that right away and quickly found my own favorite

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songs on her last two solo records. Dana and

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I explore her critically acclaimed 2023 solo

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record, How Much Muscle, also the back catalog,

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her travels, education, and her upcoming performances

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in the theatrical production, Leonard and Joni,

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The Untold Love Story, which is appearing in

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Edmonton, Calgary, and Saskatoon if you're in

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those areas this spring. The Earth That You're

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Made Of earned Dana a Canadian Folk Music Award

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nomination for Contemporary Singer of the Year.

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The Edmonton Journal raved about how much muscle.

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Describing it as packed with soul and musicianship,

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it was included in its Fresh Tracks, a year -end

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must -listen list of albums from Edmonton artists.

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The Journal also points out that the album was

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recorded almost entirely live off the floor.

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Dana is also a part of an Edmonton supergroup,

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Secondhand Dreamcar, which journalist and programmer

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Peter North has described as the most exciting

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act to come out of Edmonton since Katie Lang

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and the Reclines. Secondhand Dreamcar has just

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finished recording their debut LP, Answer the

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Call, which is expected for release in September.

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In addition to writing, recording, performing,

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Dana also offers standard piano, voice, and guitar

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lessons, and she's helped professional musicians

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write and learn harmony vocals prior to touring

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or recording. Lessons are offered in person in

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Edmonton or via Zoom. So wherever you are around

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the world, please reach out to Dana if you're

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an aspiring musician or vocalist at Dana at DanaWiley

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.net for more info. Please also read the testimonials

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from the students that she's taught. All right,

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how about we get to the conversation? But first,

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here's a preview of the title track from How

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Much Muscle. You can download this song, this

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album, and Dana's previous efforts wherever you

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download music. And also order the LP or CD version

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on her website at DanaWiley .net. and be sure

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to visit secondhanddreamcar .com. Folks, it is

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Dana Wiley time. First time. Edmonton, Alberta,

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Canada's very own Dana Wiley. Thank you so much,

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Dana, for being here. How are you doing today?

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I'm doing just great. I love this idea. I'm so

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happy to be here. I have so enjoyed really just

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scratching the surface on your music. Wow, the

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most recent album, which I really want to put

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front and center here, and I know there's other

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projects going on that we'll get to, but how

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much muscle released in 2023 is, folks, if you've

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never listened to Dana Wiley before, I would

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jump in at the new album, start there and work

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your way back. Probably, you know, that's what

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I did. I have so many questions about this record,

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Dana. First of all, the acclaim that it has garnered,

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I always like to mention to people that I don't

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just bring any old Dan, or in this case, any

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old Dana on the show. I really want to bring

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some key players and people that are making a

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big impact and are excellent at their craft.

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I guess my first question, Dana, this album...

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It feels like it's a long time coming. It's a

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full package, some excellent players. How proud

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of it are you now that you've got a few months

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and it's been out there? I am. I am proud of

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it. I'm still happy with it. It's always a nice

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treat when you can go back and listen to a record

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you made some time ago and it still sounds good

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to you. The songs still represent how you...

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how you feel and how you see the world and that

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this, you know, it still sounds good and it doesn't

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make you cringe horrifically. That's always a

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good sign. And this one we actually recorded

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in the summer of 2020. I had gotten a grant.

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We're lucky up here in Canada to have some public

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funding for the arts and for making recording

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projects in particular. And so we got a grant

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and then COVID hit. And so we found a way in

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the summer of 2020 to make this record. But then,

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you know, the world was all crazy and life was

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not what it usually is and so I didn't end up

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putting it out until just early last year but

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I actually made it quite some time ago it feels

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it feels like almost like a previous era of my

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life in some ways but um but I was really proud

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that and I was happy that despite the situation

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in COVID it's a long story how we were able to

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do it mostly the way we wanted to but the idea

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with it was to make it completely live off the

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floor record which is not a standard way to make

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studio albums, but we really wanted to just get

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the band in a room together and just like lay

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down these tunes, because as you mentioned, the

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players on it are all fantastic. And so we weren't,

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because of COVID -oriented situations, we weren't

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able to do it entirely live off the floor, but

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it's largely that, just with some sprinklings

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of overdubs. And I'm really glad to have been

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able to do that. And I'm proud of that aspect

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of it for sure, because that's... That's what

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I love when an album can capture the kind of

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live energy that a band has that's Those are

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my favorite recordings. So I was really happy

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to be able to do that Yeah, I think I was mentioning

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to you and I don't know if this is just a coincidence

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But there's such great playing such a variety.

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It's such a layered album in every track. I think

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The opening note on each track. It might be the

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bass guitar. It might be the saxophone It might

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be the keys. It might be the vocals. Did you

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notice that? I don't know that that was a deliberate

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choice. No, that's an interesting observation

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for you to make. That's cool. Yeah, I really

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liked it. And again, I haven't had a lot of time

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to go back to the prior albums, but I have seen

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on the other records that you take an interest

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in other people and maybe putting a message out

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there that they can grab hold of and run with

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maybe in some of their dark times. And I see

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how you continue that on this album with the

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songs Cry Out and Break, Blow, Burn, specifically

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speaking to mothers and women who just carry

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so much on their shoulders. They're often working

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moms. They're trying to keep it all together.

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I was thinking about this today. I'm a dad and

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men who are involved. Good for us, good for them.

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But you know women often get judged more If they

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don't look like they're keeping it together if

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they if they want to show up in public not dressed

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very well men can just walk around like slobs

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and still be treated respectfully in some cases

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in some places and women just it's like nobody

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like you say in the song nobody notices and break

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blow burn until she just Finally crumbles until

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she finally blows her top It gets angry and everyone's

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like, what's her problem? It's like, well, she's

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taking on a lot over here. And these kids, these,

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I mean, I've got three kids and as a dad, they

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could put you to the brink of insanity sometimes,

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but it's, your humor comes out in these songs.

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And I just like that you're, I can imagine your

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female listeners saying, thank you. Thanks for

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somebody sticking up for me here. Yeah, I have

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gotten that response to that song in particular.

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And yeah, you got it exactly. That's how I tend

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to introduce that song at shows, is to say that

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something that I noticed, particularly when I

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was pregnant with my second child and when he

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was... really young too because I have another

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you know that was something that that was really

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getting to me the fact that you know it's like

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I'm just working so hard to just barely hold

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everything together here and like that's not

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noticeable at all it's only when like I start

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dropping the balls and you know and like you

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know losing it a little bit you know it's like

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once when you just find that you're like crying

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in the grocery store at a frustration because

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like your kid won't stop having a tantrum or

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whatever you know it's like like then that's

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extremely noticeable when you're not holding

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it together you know and you are it's it's not

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really noticeable at all and you know that kind

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of became a wider metaphor in the song too that

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you know with certain other themes that i've

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explored as part of my graduate studies that

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the earth being the big metaphor for the mother

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of us all, the thing that carries us all, that

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we tend to look at the earth like it's a kind

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of a platform or a canvas on which we make things

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happen in a very masculine kind of a way, like

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this is the surface on which we build stuff.

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But to look at the earth more like something

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that is known, that it's a... Mesh work of life

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processes that we are a part of and that and

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that you know Nurtures us all and allows us to

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do our nurturing and it's alive, you know That

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kind of became a wider metaphor in the song.

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I Love a lot of the lyrics here again with cry

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out. I wrote some of these down. The stars have

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already heard your cries Even if someone's not

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paying attention to you. The stars are listening.

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That's I think that's just a really sweet message

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Holder of words, servant of peace, let yourself

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cry out, because you're justified, you are beautiful,

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you can fall apart, I don't mind. Men even, and

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I've spoken to this on a previous episode, who

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hasn't been traveling somewhere, when you're

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in your vehicle and you're the only one there,

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I can assure you a lot of men have let some tears

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fall out when no one's paying attention. And

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I feel like this song, if someone was driving

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down the road listening to cry out, they could

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just take you up on that. I hope so. I write

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all my songs to someone. I don't know. That's

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just a proclivity I have as a writer. My instinct

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is always to write to somebody. That's what makes

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me want to write when I want to say something

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to a particular person. That's what drives me.

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That song was very much written for one person,

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a friend of mine who's just an amazing, one of

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those people that does hold it all together.

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She's a registered nurse, a brilliant one, and

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has four kids, and is also a beautiful poet and

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a songwriter, and I think really prides herself

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on being able to hold difficult. things and you

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know she she's actually a palliative care nurse

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so she you know she helps people over the big

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threshold and you know she and she does it with

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so much grace and she was going through a particularly

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hard period in her life where she wasn't so able

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to hold it together she was really really struggling

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with some pretty deep things and and that really

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bothered her because she really she really saw

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herself as someone who who helps other people

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you know That's her that's her whole life. And

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so that was very much to her and to say this,

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you know, this is okay I see you going through

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this. It is okay. It's beautiful. It's part of

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your process and like, you know, you can you

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know, just wanting to give her permission to

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to have a hard time, you know, because Everybody

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does that's right with that being said this album

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I think really captures you and probably what

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you like to do in a live setting in front of

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an audience. It has a very live sound. You achieve

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that. And it sounds like the players that you

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have around you. Let me mention the names. Daniel

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Akira, Stead Nicky on drums, Keith Rempel on

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bass, Brennan Cameron on the keys. You've got

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the horn section on this album, which is... I

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think it makes some of these tracks very memorable.

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Speaking of Break, Blow, Burn, I mean, once you

00:16:07.929 --> 00:16:12.289
get that... You know, you get that in your mind.

00:16:12.669 --> 00:16:14.929
I want to keep going back to that song. It's

00:16:14.929 --> 00:16:20.230
a really good hook. Oh, cool. And so Audrey Ochoa,

00:16:20.450 --> 00:16:24.870
trombone, saxophonist Dave Babcock, Bob Tildesley

00:16:24.870 --> 00:16:28.129
on trumpet. That's right. Yeah. And then produced

00:16:28.129 --> 00:16:30.870
by Harry Gregg, who I don't want to jump too

00:16:30.870 --> 00:16:32.899
far ahead, but you do have a side... Project

00:16:32.899 --> 00:16:35.740
kind of a super group from the local area secondhand

00:16:35.740 --> 00:16:40.639
dream car where Harry plays bass Yeah, yeah,

00:16:40.639 --> 00:16:43.200
we do a lot of things But it just sounds like

00:16:43.200 --> 00:16:45.600
you're having a really good time with these players

00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:49.879
It's a real it's some tracks real bouncy feel

00:16:49.879 --> 00:16:54.480
real lively flavorful I had this word I don't

00:16:54.480 --> 00:16:56.399
even know if I was I was driving so I couldn't

00:16:56.399 --> 00:16:59.080
kind of check myself But it's just a some of

00:16:59.080 --> 00:17:04.900
these songs are really delectable It's a very

00:17:04.900 --> 00:17:10.579
rich medley of these different instruments coming

00:17:10.579 --> 00:17:13.680
together. Did you know, like going back to the

00:17:13.680 --> 00:17:16.299
previous record, The Earth That You're Made Of,

00:17:17.059 --> 00:17:18.920
did you think at that time about experimenting

00:17:18.920 --> 00:17:21.619
with the horn section or was it, how did it come

00:17:21.619 --> 00:17:25.059
together to, let's do it on this album? Earth

00:17:25.059 --> 00:17:27.609
That You're Made Of did have three piece horn

00:17:27.609 --> 00:17:30.609
section on a few songs and it was the same players

00:17:30.609 --> 00:17:32.829
it was Dave and Bob and Audrey. Dave and Bob

00:17:32.829 --> 00:17:35.710
and Audrey are like the go -to horn section.

00:17:35.910 --> 00:17:38.650
I mean, they all have reputations far beyond

00:17:38.650 --> 00:17:41.450
Edmonton. Audrey actually toured for a year with

00:17:41.450 --> 00:17:44.190
the, she did the US national tour of Hadestown

00:17:44.190 --> 00:17:46.329
for, you know, even though she also teaches at

00:17:46.329 --> 00:17:48.349
a Catholic school, you know, when she took it,

00:17:48.349 --> 00:17:50.950
she took a year off from teaching at a Catholic

00:17:50.950 --> 00:17:54.650
school to go and do the US national tour of Hadestown.

00:17:54.829 --> 00:17:57.569
Like she's, she's, you know, they all have huge

00:17:57.569 --> 00:18:00.910
reputations and are just so good. And so for

00:18:01.200 --> 00:18:03.099
I can't remember the reason that with Earth That

00:18:03.099 --> 00:18:05.660
You're Made Of, which I made in 2016, I can't

00:18:05.660 --> 00:18:08.220
remember why it seemed apt in that album to have

00:18:08.220 --> 00:18:10.000
horns on a few things. I had never done that

00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:13.000
before, but we did. And I, you know, I got enough

00:18:13.000 --> 00:18:15.519
funding to be able to do it. And so that was

00:18:15.519 --> 00:18:17.599
such a good experience. And I think when getting

00:18:17.599 --> 00:18:20.720
that band together to perform those songs from

00:18:20.720 --> 00:18:22.740
Earth That You're Made Of in a live context,

00:18:23.299 --> 00:18:25.839
that kind of became my band. It was like, well,

00:18:25.859 --> 00:18:28.450
why would you... If you can do it like this,

00:18:28.470 --> 00:18:31.230
why would you not, you know, and so so then so

00:18:31.230 --> 00:18:33.670
very much how much muscle even though, you know

00:18:33.670 --> 00:18:36.170
thematically it's it goes to a different place

00:18:36.170 --> 00:18:39.009
than Then earth that you're made of and sonically

00:18:39.009 --> 00:18:41.410
in many ways to it. It very much came out of

00:18:41.410 --> 00:18:43.890
that You know that that band was formed quite

00:18:43.890 --> 00:18:47.130
organically from what you know how things went

00:18:47.130 --> 00:18:50.509
with that that previous album and Now that feels

00:18:50.509 --> 00:18:54.529
like my band, you know Yeah, and your your vocals.

00:18:54.549 --> 00:18:56.490
I haven't even spoken about your vocals yet,

00:18:56.490 --> 00:18:58.799
but Folks, if you listen to any of these tracks,

00:18:58.940 --> 00:19:02.059
it's going to jump out at you that this is a

00:19:02.059 --> 00:19:06.019
seasoned musician. It just has a natural gift,

00:19:06.019 --> 00:19:11.019
but you do a lot with your vocal range and some

00:19:11.019 --> 00:19:13.920
songwriters with your talent may not introduce

00:19:13.920 --> 00:19:16.660
all these other players into the mix. You know,

00:19:16.660 --> 00:19:19.079
and I think it's great that your vocals are strong

00:19:19.079 --> 00:19:22.319
enough, but you still invite these other layers

00:19:22.319 --> 00:19:26.839
into the songs. Well, that's the joy of it. for

00:19:26.839 --> 00:19:31.019
me, you know, like I love being delighted by

00:19:31.019 --> 00:19:33.059
what other people bring to it, whether that's

00:19:33.059 --> 00:19:35.519
just like a little lick that just makes you go,

00:19:35.519 --> 00:19:38.339
oh, that was so tasty or whether it's like a

00:19:38.339 --> 00:19:40.339
whole, like, you know, if a band member brings

00:19:40.339 --> 00:19:42.539
a real creative contribution to a song that takes

00:19:42.539 --> 00:19:44.819
it in a direction that I couldn't have anticipated,

00:19:44.920 --> 00:19:47.220
you know, that's what it's all about. You know,

00:19:47.220 --> 00:19:48.960
when I do get other players to play in my record,

00:19:49.039 --> 00:19:52.039
it's never about, this is my vision and this

00:19:52.039 --> 00:19:53.619
is how we want the song to be and just play this

00:19:53.619 --> 00:19:57.819
part and make, you know, make my vision come

00:19:57.819 --> 00:20:03.019
alive. It's like, I want the people that I'm

00:20:03.019 --> 00:20:06.339
lucky enough to work with have so much to quote

00:20:06.339 --> 00:20:09.299
unquote say as artists and as musicians. And

00:20:09.299 --> 00:20:12.980
that's what brings me joy. And that's what makes,

00:20:13.339 --> 00:20:15.220
particularly in my last two records, that's what

00:20:15.220 --> 00:20:18.160
makes them what they are. Particularly maybe

00:20:18.160 --> 00:20:21.059
my rhythm section, Dan and Keith. There's another

00:20:21.059 --> 00:20:25.640
down You know they what they bring to the songs,

00:20:25.640 --> 00:20:29.019
you know as instrumentalists it becomes like

00:20:29.019 --> 00:20:32.680
a key part of what makes the songs What they

00:20:32.680 --> 00:20:35.279
are, you know, the creative contribution is immense

00:20:35.279 --> 00:20:38.299
I'm glad you mentioned that because I think music

00:20:38.299 --> 00:20:43.160
fans maybe have a tendency to think that if the

00:20:43.160 --> 00:20:46.759
album cover on every record says Dana Wiley that

00:20:46.759 --> 00:20:49.480
Dana is kind of the driving force and like you

00:20:49.480 --> 00:20:51.680
said she's saying okay I want you to play this

00:20:51.680 --> 00:20:54.640
this bass line I want you to play this guitar

00:20:54.640 --> 00:20:57.920
solo that I wrote and maybe people assume that

00:20:57.920 --> 00:21:02.259
and there are some high profile musicians from

00:21:02.259 --> 00:21:04.680
major bands that kind of jump off and do a solo

00:21:04.680 --> 00:21:07.579
record and I'm sure that does go on in those

00:21:07.579 --> 00:21:10.240
cases but I love what you said there that you're

00:21:10.240 --> 00:21:13.740
you're there to collaborate and everyone is welcome

00:21:13.740 --> 00:21:16.549
to bring something to the table Yeah, that's

00:21:16.549 --> 00:21:19.269
just how I like to that's what brings me joy

00:21:19.269 --> 00:21:22.289
like I said, you know Like do you ever hear a

00:21:22.289 --> 00:21:24.349
drum roll and you say hey, wait a second. That's

00:21:24.349 --> 00:21:27.589
great. Let's let's That's fantastic. I want to

00:21:27.589 --> 00:21:30.730
keep that in the song. Oh Yeah, and I mean that

00:21:30.730 --> 00:21:32.650
that's a collaborative process too That's something

00:21:32.650 --> 00:21:35.490
that I might point out or that Harry the producer

00:21:35.490 --> 00:21:39.089
might point out and or you know We might disagree

00:21:39.089 --> 00:21:41.589
and then we have some nice fun healthy arguments

00:21:41.589 --> 00:21:44.970
about which you know because every take is going

00:21:44.970 --> 00:21:46.109
to come out a little bit differently because

00:21:46.109 --> 00:21:48.430
everyone's just in the moment it's like it's

00:21:48.430 --> 00:21:50.869
always a subjective thing which one is stronger

00:21:50.869 --> 00:21:53.470
and that's that's a healthy part of the process

00:21:53.470 --> 00:21:55.730
too which is also part part of what makes it

00:21:55.730 --> 00:21:59.250
fun for me well one more track that i love on

00:21:59.250 --> 00:22:02.349
the record it's the penultimate song reconcile

00:22:02.349 --> 00:22:06.250
it just the the back half of it just rolls into

00:22:06.250 --> 00:22:09.269
something beautiful as your your vocal line is

00:22:09.269 --> 00:22:12.839
trailing off reconcile uh the horn section Gramps

00:22:12.839 --> 00:22:15.220
the relay and it's just it's wonderful folks

00:22:15.220 --> 00:22:18.000
if download the whole album But maybe jump ahead

00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:20.819
to that track and do you have a particular song

00:22:20.819 --> 00:22:22.599
on the album? And I want to get your thoughts

00:22:22.599 --> 00:22:25.019
on reconciled too, but is there one that you

00:22:25.019 --> 00:22:29.400
like the most personally? Um Yeah, that's a tricky

00:22:29.400 --> 00:22:31.759
question, but I'll say about reconciled. I actually

00:22:31.759 --> 00:22:35.019
didn't write that one My friend who I was just

00:22:35.019 --> 00:22:37.359
talking about who I wrote cry out for she wrote

00:22:37.359 --> 00:22:41.200
that song And I was really happy that she was

00:22:41.200 --> 00:22:42.779
okay with me bringing it to life for this album

00:22:42.779 --> 00:22:44.440
because she's, you know, I said like she's a

00:22:44.440 --> 00:22:47.559
nurse by trade. She hasn't done any recording

00:22:47.559 --> 00:22:49.839
at least so far. She doesn't make music professionally

00:22:49.839 --> 00:22:51.619
but I just thought that was such a beautiful

00:22:51.619 --> 00:22:55.640
and profound song that so she allowed me to just

00:22:55.640 --> 00:22:59.000
kind of take it and we took it in quite a different

00:22:59.000 --> 00:23:02.769
direction than you know her original. how she

00:23:02.769 --> 00:23:06.289
would do it and which was fun and and I believe

00:23:06.289 --> 00:23:09.609
Dave Babcock was the one who came up with the

00:23:09.609 --> 00:23:11.829
horn arrangement for that one and it's so it

00:23:11.829 --> 00:23:14.150
works so well he pointed out to me later that

00:23:14.150 --> 00:23:17.269
it's like it's like a classic like Herb Alpert

00:23:17.269 --> 00:23:19.009
kind of a horn line which you wouldn't think

00:23:19.009 --> 00:23:20.930
would be appropriate for that song and I was

00:23:20.930 --> 00:23:23.650
like that's so true and yet somehow it works

00:23:23.650 --> 00:23:25.769
and and yeah I really feel like it makes that

00:23:25.769 --> 00:23:28.710
track in so many ways it's so it's so great.

00:23:29.230 --> 00:23:32.640
And then the album closes with Just a I called

00:23:32.640 --> 00:23:35.279
it sparkling cover of the Shirelles. Will you

00:23:35.279 --> 00:23:39.099
still love me tomorrow? This is jumping outside

00:23:39.099 --> 00:23:41.799
the box a little bit Maybe is that a song that

00:23:41.799 --> 00:23:43.940
you've loved for a long time. Is that how did

00:23:43.940 --> 00:23:47.099
that? Yeah Come to be yeah It's a song that I

00:23:47.099 --> 00:23:49.119
like like if I think back to when I was a kid

00:23:49.119 --> 00:23:52.099
like my first Realizations that music was a really

00:23:52.099 --> 00:23:55.319
exciting thing for me It was hearing that song

00:23:55.319 --> 00:23:57.319
and you know, there's a kind of geeky musical

00:23:57.319 --> 00:24:00.539
reason for that that I that I can explain now.

00:24:00.740 --> 00:24:01.839
You know, at the time when I was a kid, I was

00:24:01.839 --> 00:24:03.940
just like, oh, something, there's something so

00:24:03.940 --> 00:24:07.000
exciting about how that song works. Like there's

00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:08.660
this sparkly thing that happens in it, in which

00:24:08.660 --> 00:24:11.470
I now... have the you know knowledge to describe

00:24:11.470 --> 00:24:13.910
is like it's where there's a major three chord

00:24:13.910 --> 00:24:16.309
that goes to the six minor chord which is not

00:24:16.309 --> 00:24:18.769
it's a fairly standard move but it's a great

00:24:18.769 --> 00:24:21.269
move and and it just like when i was eight years

00:24:21.269 --> 00:24:23.470
old like it really fired me up and i've always

00:24:23.470 --> 00:24:26.250
loved that song and more than 10 years ago i

00:24:26.250 --> 00:24:28.210
for whatever reason i don't remember i i came

00:24:28.210 --> 00:24:30.250
up with my own cover of it just on my you know

00:24:30.250 --> 00:24:33.230
messing around on the acoustic guitar and uh

00:24:33.230 --> 00:24:36.210
having lived with that cover for 10 years or

00:24:36.210 --> 00:24:38.750
so i just thought you know i think just just

00:24:38.750 --> 00:24:41.470
get it down on this record, you know? 10 years

00:24:41.470 --> 00:24:44.910
seems like a long time to sit with one song,

00:24:45.029 --> 00:24:46.789
and yet I've found that now that I've been doing

00:24:46.789 --> 00:24:49.349
this for long enough, it actually, you know,

00:24:49.450 --> 00:24:51.589
it's after you've been doing a song, whether

00:24:51.589 --> 00:24:54.730
it's a cover song or like I do some traditional

00:24:54.730 --> 00:24:56.349
folk songs as well, you know, a song that you

00:24:56.349 --> 00:24:59.309
didn't write, you know, to get it in you, like

00:24:59.309 --> 00:25:01.450
it's really after about 10 years that you really

00:25:01.450 --> 00:25:04.130
feel like, okay, this is really, this is really

00:25:04.130 --> 00:25:06.849
in me now, and I have interwoven with it to an

00:25:06.849 --> 00:25:09.650
extent that It's its own thing my version of

00:25:09.650 --> 00:25:11.609
it is its own thing. And and so yeah, I just

00:25:11.609 --> 00:25:14.829
wanted to Put it on the record and and thought

00:25:14.829 --> 00:25:16.569
Audrey would write a beautiful horn arrangement

00:25:16.569 --> 00:25:20.069
for that too. And she she did Well before we

00:25:20.069 --> 00:25:22.470
get too much further ahead, I probably should

00:25:22.470 --> 00:25:27.549
jump way back to When all this started when your

00:25:27.549 --> 00:25:30.650
career as a singer -songwriter began kind of

00:25:30.650 --> 00:25:34.660
in an unconventional way or maybe You wouldn't

00:25:34.660 --> 00:25:36.740
have seen it going in this direction, but a few

00:25:36.740 --> 00:25:39.799
events happened. So I guess 20 or so years ago

00:25:39.799 --> 00:25:45.079
early 2000s you were Born in Saskatchewan and

00:25:45.079 --> 00:25:47.220
then you moved to Edmonton to attend theater

00:25:47.220 --> 00:25:51.839
school at McEwen Yep, and then maybe being out

00:25:51.839 --> 00:25:54.539
with some theater friends who also performed

00:25:54.539 --> 00:25:56.579
you kind of saw some of your friends playing

00:25:56.579 --> 00:26:00.019
on stage and thought wait a second I Wanted I

00:26:00.019 --> 00:26:02.880
can do that. I want to do that and it kind of

00:26:02.880 --> 00:26:05.829
got that It scratched that itch or brought those

00:26:05.829 --> 00:26:07.670
feelings to the surface and you decided to make

00:26:07.670 --> 00:26:10.250
a play for it. Were you already maybe filling

00:26:10.250 --> 00:26:13.029
out notebooks with poetry or lyrics or things

00:26:13.029 --> 00:26:16.970
like that at that point? No, not really. It's

00:26:16.970 --> 00:26:23.049
an interesting thing. I always felt like I was

00:26:23.049 --> 00:26:25.430
a music person first before I was a theater person.

00:26:25.730 --> 00:26:28.960
When I went to study theater, it was... as a

00:26:28.960 --> 00:26:31.119
musical theater person because I always thought

00:26:31.119 --> 00:26:32.660
I was a singer first. And I didn't have a lot

00:26:32.660 --> 00:26:35.079
of opportunity as a kid to do drama because I

00:26:35.079 --> 00:26:37.259
grew up in a small town where that kind of stuff

00:26:37.259 --> 00:26:41.700
just didn't exist. So I was always a singer and

00:26:41.700 --> 00:26:44.619
I always loved like old standards and American

00:26:44.619 --> 00:26:47.940
songbook stuff. But I didn't, my experience growing

00:26:47.940 --> 00:26:51.059
up in my small town in Saskatchewan was that

00:26:51.059 --> 00:26:54.480
I didn't ever experience anyone having a band.

00:26:54.839 --> 00:26:57.319
or like playing rock music or pop music or folk

00:26:57.319 --> 00:27:00.460
music, it was, you know, I took piano lessons

00:27:00.460 --> 00:27:03.700
and all of the experiences I had of people actually

00:27:03.700 --> 00:27:05.779
making music were always in these very kind of

00:27:05.779 --> 00:27:08.420
institutionalized kinds of ways. I would, you

00:27:08.420 --> 00:27:11.440
know, I took piano and I would compete in festivals

00:27:11.440 --> 00:27:14.359
and take exams and do, you know, go through the

00:27:14.359 --> 00:27:19.099
grades in piano. And until I had moved to Edmonton,

00:27:19.339 --> 00:27:22.420
I never experienced anyone like just having a

00:27:22.420 --> 00:27:25.390
band. or even getting to go out to live shows

00:27:25.390 --> 00:27:29.049
and see bands play. So it just wasn't the idea

00:27:29.049 --> 00:27:32.650
of kind of writing songs in the kind of folk

00:27:32.650 --> 00:27:37.069
or rock realm, whatever that is. It just kind

00:27:37.069 --> 00:27:41.890
of wasn't in my world. And so it was a kind of

00:27:41.890 --> 00:27:45.230
very strange and... revelatory experience to

00:27:45.230 --> 00:27:47.410
go and like as you said you've really done some

00:27:47.410 --> 00:27:50.269
deep research here like I did I went to a cafe

00:27:50.269 --> 00:27:52.390
where two of my fellow theater students were

00:27:52.390 --> 00:27:54.230
playing because they wrote folky songs and played

00:27:54.230 --> 00:27:56.930
guitar and and I just I watched them playing

00:27:56.930 --> 00:28:00.730
their songs and I just I just thought I I know

00:28:00.730 --> 00:28:04.650
I can do that and I have to do that and I had

00:28:04.650 --> 00:28:07.309
never it had never occurred to me before like

00:28:07.309 --> 00:28:10.150
so but then it just like it wouldn't let me go

00:28:10.150 --> 00:28:12.470
and it was so hard like it was such an arduous

00:28:13.179 --> 00:28:16.259
process like first of all learning to play piano

00:28:16.259 --> 00:28:18.119
when I didn't have music in front of me because

00:28:18.119 --> 00:28:19.680
that was the only way I had learned how to do

00:28:19.680 --> 00:28:23.480
it, but then also just writing. I didn't know

00:28:23.480 --> 00:28:26.180
how to write songs and it probably took me eight

00:28:26.180 --> 00:28:30.059
or nine months to write my first song. My memory

00:28:30.059 --> 00:28:32.359
of it now is that it was so painful and like

00:28:32.750 --> 00:28:36.529
not comfortable. But it was just like, I have

00:28:36.529 --> 00:28:38.609
to do this. I got to figure this out. Because

00:28:38.609 --> 00:28:44.109
this is so important. This is who I am. It was

00:28:44.109 --> 00:28:46.650
very surprising. And it totally changed the direction

00:28:46.650 --> 00:28:50.089
of my life. Because then I was like, OK, I don't

00:28:50.089 --> 00:28:52.670
think I'm actually going to pursue a life trying

00:28:52.670 --> 00:28:55.809
to get jobs in theater. I think I want to be

00:28:55.809 --> 00:28:57.970
a musician. And then as I met more musicians

00:28:57.970 --> 00:29:01.140
too around Edmonton, you know, starting to go

00:29:01.140 --> 00:29:03.539
out and try to play open stages with my songs,

00:29:03.700 --> 00:29:06.819
then I sort of realized, too, that, oh, I think

00:29:06.819 --> 00:29:09.660
musicians, as I got to know some, it's like these

00:29:09.660 --> 00:29:12.759
are actually my people, you know, my tribe, you

00:29:12.759 --> 00:29:15.839
know, more than more than actors who are who

00:29:15.839 --> 00:29:17.480
are very different from musicians in lots of

00:29:17.480 --> 00:29:20.220
ways, you know. So within a couple of years,

00:29:20.339 --> 00:29:23.339
I'll ask you, you know, how the opportunity presented

00:29:23.339 --> 00:29:28.460
itself to. To move to Taiwan and continue this

00:29:28.460 --> 00:29:31.119
exploration. This would have been around maybe

00:29:31.119 --> 00:29:34.420
05 or so. Take me through that period of time.

00:29:35.339 --> 00:29:38.119
It's so funny because when you look back on your

00:29:38.119 --> 00:29:43.920
life from... than now looking back on like the

00:29:43.920 --> 00:29:46.559
last 20 or 25 years is it's like it always makes

00:29:46.559 --> 00:29:48.519
some kind of this is my experience anyway it

00:29:48.519 --> 00:29:50.940
like makes cohesive sense it's like oh I had

00:29:50.940 --> 00:29:53.259
to do this because because then that was what

00:29:53.259 --> 00:29:55.359
enabled this and it all kind of comes together

00:29:55.359 --> 00:29:58.160
like a story that leads up to a certain point

00:29:58.160 --> 00:30:02.200
but at the time that I moved to Taiwan that was

00:30:02.200 --> 00:30:05.079
like just the most baffling thing I could have

00:30:05.079 --> 00:30:07.720
done you know like and I didn't know why exactly

00:30:07.720 --> 00:30:10.500
and it was it was one of those things where everyone

00:30:10.500 --> 00:30:12.480
in my life was telling me that it was the worst

00:30:12.480 --> 00:30:16.880
idea ever, because I just self -produced a one

00:30:16.880 --> 00:30:19.440
-person show at Edmonton's Fringe Festival, which

00:30:19.440 --> 00:30:21.079
is actually the world's second biggest Fringe

00:30:21.079 --> 00:30:25.140
Festival. It's a big thing we have here. And

00:30:25.140 --> 00:30:28.380
so I had produced and performed this one -person

00:30:28.380 --> 00:30:31.289
show that had gone... pretty well. And it seemed

00:30:31.289 --> 00:30:33.329
like, you know, as someone in my early 20s, that

00:30:33.329 --> 00:30:36.390
I was probably planting some good seeds to have

00:30:36.390 --> 00:30:41.029
a good career in theater. And, and, and, you

00:30:41.029 --> 00:30:42.589
know, I was going around open stages and playing

00:30:42.589 --> 00:30:44.910
and, but I, but I don't know, it was just like,

00:30:45.430 --> 00:30:47.390
my boyfriend at the time had taught English in

00:30:47.390 --> 00:30:50.630
Taiwan previously, and, you know, obviously was

00:30:50.630 --> 00:30:53.930
living back in Edmonton. And I know he kind of

00:30:53.930 --> 00:30:56.410
wanted to go back, I just had this feeling like,

00:30:56.640 --> 00:30:59.559
I got to get out of here. I don't know. Like,

00:30:59.700 --> 00:31:02.359
I don't know what it was. And the prospect of

00:31:02.359 --> 00:31:05.359
going to Taiwan, that was just the possibility

00:31:05.359 --> 00:31:08.680
that was there. But I didn't have any feelings

00:31:08.680 --> 00:31:11.460
like I should go to this place. I didn't know

00:31:11.460 --> 00:31:14.099
anything about it. And, you know, I had some

00:31:14.099 --> 00:31:16.680
trepidation about it because I didn't know...

00:31:16.680 --> 00:31:17.960
First of all, I didn't know if I wanted to spend

00:31:17.960 --> 00:31:19.859
loads of time teaching English, which was what

00:31:19.859 --> 00:31:24.150
you do over there as a foreigner. But I knew

00:31:24.150 --> 00:31:26.589
I wanted to save some money, and I wanted to

00:31:26.589 --> 00:31:30.869
have time to just practice and write. But the

00:31:30.869 --> 00:31:32.910
thought of going to Asia was scary. I had never

00:31:32.910 --> 00:31:34.529
been there before. I thought, how am I going

00:31:34.529 --> 00:31:37.529
to do anything? I don't speak the language. But

00:31:37.529 --> 00:31:42.950
I don't know. It had to happen somehow. And as

00:31:42.950 --> 00:31:46.390
it turned out, that particular place, Taiwan,

00:31:46.549 --> 00:31:48.829
was just like the perfect place to be as someone

00:31:48.829 --> 00:31:51.339
who had just decided okay music is the thing

00:31:51.339 --> 00:31:53.400
I want to focus on so because I needed to play

00:31:53.400 --> 00:31:56.140
I needed to get better at at playing and and

00:31:56.140 --> 00:31:57.880
I needed to have time to write and Taiwan is

00:31:57.880 --> 00:32:00.519
a place where first of all there's a thriving

00:32:00.519 --> 00:32:04.500
expat scene of of artistic people because at

00:32:04.500 --> 00:32:06.480
least the time that I was there 20 years ago

00:32:06.480 --> 00:32:09.619
everything that you could do there as a white

00:32:09.619 --> 00:32:12.380
person, essentially, it usually in the English

00:32:12.380 --> 00:32:15.019
instructional market in some capacity, everything

00:32:15.019 --> 00:32:17.119
paid really well. And so I knew a lot of people

00:32:17.119 --> 00:32:19.880
who had been living in Taiwan for years and worked

00:32:20.250 --> 00:32:23.170
10 to 15 hours a week and made enough money to

00:32:23.170 --> 00:32:26.250
survive and therefore had lots of time to do

00:32:26.250 --> 00:32:29.650
the art they wanted to do, you know. And so filmmakers

00:32:29.650 --> 00:32:34.470
and musicians and writers and so going there

00:32:34.470 --> 00:32:36.250
it's like I right away had an opportunity to

00:32:36.250 --> 00:32:39.289
play in all kinds of bands and play all kinds

00:32:39.289 --> 00:32:41.450
of different kinds of music where like you know

00:32:41.450 --> 00:32:44.690
the bar wasn't that high and so there was room

00:32:44.690 --> 00:32:47.660
for me to just kind of not be that good, but

00:32:47.660 --> 00:32:50.259
still have an opportunity to do it. And so I

00:32:50.259 --> 00:32:52.220
was getting better, and I had time to write.

00:32:53.059 --> 00:32:55.000
And yeah, so there were just all these aspects

00:32:55.000 --> 00:32:59.000
of Taiwan as a particular place to go that made

00:32:59.000 --> 00:33:02.900
it the perfect place to be. And it just happens

00:33:02.900 --> 00:33:06.619
to be a wonderful country, too, that I still

00:33:06.619 --> 00:33:09.579
have such fondness and a real deep love and respect

00:33:09.579 --> 00:33:12.859
for. It's just a great place. And then within

00:33:12.859 --> 00:33:15.680
a couple of years, you moved to England. And

00:33:15.680 --> 00:33:19.220
that's when you form your first band, first group

00:33:19.220 --> 00:33:23.759
of musicians. And as I understand it, you just

00:33:23.759 --> 00:33:26.759
begin this almost frenetic writing, recording,

00:33:26.960 --> 00:33:29.920
touring cycle. Is it kind of a blur looking back

00:33:29.920 --> 00:33:33.079
at those years? Those first three records, which

00:33:33.079 --> 00:33:37.900
almost there is the debut, December of 06. And

00:33:37.900 --> 00:33:40.779
then the unruly ones kind of every couple years,

00:33:40.839 --> 00:33:43.609
and then something's going to happen here. Yeah,

00:33:43.609 --> 00:33:46.710
when you look back at that time period, I look

00:33:46.710 --> 00:33:51.009
back at my early to mid 20s. There's some fun,

00:33:51.109 --> 00:33:55.150
some mistakes, and it's kind of a blur. Yeah,

00:33:55.369 --> 00:34:00.710
in many ways it is a blur. And also just so formative.

00:34:01.289 --> 00:34:04.789
They don't really tell you that. Really, through

00:34:04.789 --> 00:34:08.989
your 20s, you're not really a grown. figure it

00:34:08.989 --> 00:34:11.289
out person. Yeah, you know, you're just like,

00:34:11.389 --> 00:34:13.090
as you say, you're just going around having lots

00:34:13.090 --> 00:34:15.590
of adventures and getting into scrapes and getting

00:34:15.590 --> 00:34:17.369
yourself out of them and making lots of mistakes.

00:34:18.170 --> 00:34:20.789
And it's you know, those those are, you know,

00:34:20.809 --> 00:34:23.489
I don't think of my formative years in terms

00:34:23.489 --> 00:34:27.269
of who who I feel I am now and am still becoming

00:34:27.269 --> 00:34:30.510
like, I think of that as my 20s, not my teenage

00:34:30.510 --> 00:34:33.909
years or my childhood, you know, and, and again,

00:34:34.090 --> 00:34:36.500
being in England. The reason I ended up there

00:34:36.500 --> 00:34:38.340
was because I had met an Englishman in Taiwan

00:34:38.340 --> 00:34:40.480
and we had gotten together and moved to England

00:34:40.480 --> 00:34:43.800
together. So it wasn't a place that I ever thought

00:34:43.800 --> 00:34:46.519
I would go to. But there were particularities

00:34:46.519 --> 00:34:49.960
about that place too that were key to the way

00:34:49.960 --> 00:34:53.239
in which that was a formative period for me.

00:34:54.019 --> 00:34:57.780
And yeah, with the band, yeah, we were just...

00:34:57.780 --> 00:35:01.000
I had saved up some money in Taiwan and so we

00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:04.030
were able to just focus on our music and... Neither

00:35:04.030 --> 00:35:07.670
of us had day jobs and so we just it was a real

00:35:07.670 --> 00:35:09.769
grassroots operation We were just in this was

00:35:09.769 --> 00:35:13.130
2005 as well So it was pre social media Facebook

00:35:13.130 --> 00:35:16.289
didn't exist yet MySpace was like this new thing

00:35:16.289 --> 00:35:18.309
that it was like you got to be on MySpace, but

00:35:18.309 --> 00:35:21.949
it was Still new and so we were just like looking

00:35:21.949 --> 00:35:26.179
up pubs all around the Midlands in England, which

00:35:26.179 --> 00:35:29.699
is where we lived, and just saying, hey, we have

00:35:29.699 --> 00:35:32.800
our own PA system, would you hire us on a Saturday?

00:35:33.300 --> 00:35:35.440
How much will you pay us to come and set up in

00:35:35.440 --> 00:35:39.099
the corner and play a few sets? That's how we

00:35:39.099 --> 00:35:40.840
did it. We were just on the phone all the time

00:35:40.840 --> 00:35:44.820
and driving around and playing as much as we

00:35:44.820 --> 00:35:47.719
could. And then, yeah, eventually making records.

00:35:47.920 --> 00:35:50.579
And yeah, it is kind of a blur. And it all just

00:35:50.579 --> 00:35:52.869
kind of went and went and went. Until it fell

00:35:52.869 --> 00:35:58.010
apart And then it fell apart, you know as as

00:35:58.010 --> 00:36:02.610
things do you know Yeah, you um again in that

00:36:02.610 --> 00:36:04.630
time period for a lot of people you don't know

00:36:04.630 --> 00:36:07.090
yet like you know now that you're not really

00:36:07.090 --> 00:36:09.250
well, I don't want to say you're not old enough

00:36:09.250 --> 00:36:12.269
to You think you're more experienced than you

00:36:12.269 --> 00:36:16.329
are when you're 23 or 25 or if you kind of realize

00:36:16.329 --> 00:36:21.059
that you're not you still try to Swim with the

00:36:21.059 --> 00:36:24.159
current. I don't know But wow, I mean, yeah,

00:36:24.420 --> 00:36:27.679
you created some wonderful music and the time

00:36:27.679 --> 00:36:30.679
period is is kind of crystallized I guess you'd

00:36:30.679 --> 00:36:33.159
say I mean for good or for bad I mean, I understand

00:36:33.159 --> 00:36:35.960
it wasn't all great memories at that that group

00:36:35.960 --> 00:36:38.659
of musicians and what you had going on there

00:36:38.659 --> 00:36:43.420
didn't maybe end that well, but the music remains

00:36:43.420 --> 00:36:47.219
and I am happy for that. You know, I I feel like

00:36:47.500 --> 00:36:49.480
I don't know that this is true for all artists,

00:36:49.800 --> 00:36:52.260
but those first albums that I made with the band

00:36:52.260 --> 00:36:56.780
in England, we made two of them over here, actually,

00:36:56.900 --> 00:37:03.880
but it was all that band. Musically, it's so

00:37:03.880 --> 00:37:06.119
different from what I'm doing now. It really

00:37:06.119 --> 00:37:10.219
is an archive of that's where we were at. And

00:37:10.219 --> 00:37:11.719
because those were independent records, it's

00:37:11.719 --> 00:37:14.760
like we had no one who was more professional

00:37:14.760 --> 00:37:18.360
or more like representing the industry or like

00:37:18.360 --> 00:37:20.079
labels and things like that, you know, making

00:37:20.079 --> 00:37:23.760
us sound more polished. And like, it's what we

00:37:23.760 --> 00:37:27.460
were at that time. And so that that whole back

00:37:27.460 --> 00:37:30.480
catalog, it really does exist as an archive and

00:37:30.480 --> 00:37:33.460
like, which is an interesting thing to consider.

00:37:33.460 --> 00:37:36.119
I'm so happy for that. And yet also, if I think

00:37:36.119 --> 00:37:38.260
about the fact that like, like, I don't want

00:37:38.260 --> 00:37:39.920
to listen to those records. And if I think about

00:37:39.920 --> 00:37:42.000
anybody else listening to them, it kind of makes

00:37:42.000 --> 00:37:44.460
me cringe because I'm like, oh, God, like, oh,

00:37:44.460 --> 00:37:49.110
the The musicianship is so raw. My singing voice

00:37:49.110 --> 00:37:52.409
sounds so young. The way I was writing, it just

00:37:52.409 --> 00:37:56.889
totally betrays what a young, clueless person

00:37:56.889 --> 00:38:01.170
I was. But I'm also glad for that. That's real.

00:38:01.630 --> 00:38:04.989
It's like an archive. I think one thing that

00:38:04.989 --> 00:38:07.670
remains, because I listened to a few tracks on

00:38:07.670 --> 00:38:11.130
the early records, but your humor, a lot of tongue

00:38:11.130 --> 00:38:14.369
in cheek references. It's just it's painted all

00:38:14.369 --> 00:38:17.030
over those songs and I love that you're not afraid

00:38:17.030 --> 00:38:20.730
to jump out there and just Write something sing

00:38:20.730 --> 00:38:23.670
something that another artist might say. I don't

00:38:23.670 --> 00:38:26.349
know if I want to make that statement I mean,

00:38:26.469 --> 00:38:29.150
there's well, I won't I won't bring up any of

00:38:29.150 --> 00:38:33.670
the old lyrics but You do I think I think you're

00:38:33.670 --> 00:38:36.190
endearing to your listeners people that have

00:38:36.190 --> 00:38:38.730
followed you for a long time I'm sure they do

00:38:38.730 --> 00:38:42.079
love the humor in some of the songs because it

00:38:42.079 --> 00:38:44.679
is a welcome relief. You don't you don't want

00:38:44.679 --> 00:38:47.860
to listen to. It's great if there's uplifting

00:38:47.860 --> 00:38:51.000
messages and like we were talking about at the

00:38:51.000 --> 00:38:53.460
top of the episode. But sometimes you need a

00:38:53.460 --> 00:38:56.360
little bit of a little bit of a snicker in some

00:38:56.360 --> 00:39:00.820
of these topics. Yeah, yeah, that was always

00:39:00.820 --> 00:39:03.219
strong for me back, you know, particularly back

00:39:03.219 --> 00:39:06.039
in those days. And I and I came from theater

00:39:06.039 --> 00:39:09.920
and you know, I was really immersed in in. musical

00:39:09.920 --> 00:39:12.179
theater for a good few years there and it's funny

00:39:12.179 --> 00:39:15.340
it's not my favorite stuff I don't it's totally

00:39:15.340 --> 00:39:18.920
out of my realm of experience right now but but

00:39:18.920 --> 00:39:20.659
at the time like I came out of that and so in

00:39:20.659 --> 00:39:23.199
terms of like you know approach to lyrics and

00:39:23.199 --> 00:39:25.119
approaches to song forms too like that's the

00:39:25.119 --> 00:39:28.539
world that that's was my knowledge base and and

00:39:28.539 --> 00:39:30.500
you know musical theater writing is a bit more

00:39:30.500 --> 00:39:33.579
like that it's it's more specific and it's it's

00:39:33.579 --> 00:39:35.840
the lyrics in it are are meant to kind of grab

00:39:35.840 --> 00:39:38.059
your attention you know in a way where it may

00:39:38.059 --> 00:39:40.539
be more like folk or something like that it's

00:39:40.539 --> 00:39:43.699
meant to meant to be more like generally evocative

00:39:43.699 --> 00:39:46.260
and like you know it's not necessarily a good

00:39:46.260 --> 00:39:48.260
thing to have lyrics that are really grabbing

00:39:48.260 --> 00:39:52.840
you in a in a idiosyncratic way you know but

00:39:52.840 --> 00:39:55.760
that's that's what i'd say if i was gonna you

00:39:55.760 --> 00:39:59.219
know assess myself as an artist and as a songwriter

00:39:59.480 --> 00:40:03.599
as a young person from this vantage point, I'd

00:40:03.599 --> 00:40:05.860
say that that was my strength. I think I was

00:40:05.860 --> 00:40:09.139
quite bold in that way. I was not afraid to put

00:40:09.139 --> 00:40:11.340
out songs that were kind of weird and quirky

00:40:11.340 --> 00:40:16.139
and funny in ways that the music industry, even

00:40:16.139 --> 00:40:20.139
the folk music industry, is not going to legitimize

00:40:20.139 --> 00:40:24.039
probably and didn't. There are other assessments

00:40:24.039 --> 00:40:27.659
I can make of aspects where I had a lot to learn.

00:40:28.820 --> 00:40:31.280
But I'd say that that's what I had going for

00:40:31.280 --> 00:40:33.980
me back in those days. I was, for some reason,

00:40:34.179 --> 00:40:36.659
kind of unafraid to just kind of throw stuff

00:40:36.659 --> 00:40:40.139
to the wall like that. And that was part of the

00:40:40.139 --> 00:40:41.980
environment, too, the people I had around me.

00:40:42.679 --> 00:40:45.539
And being in England was part of that, too, part

00:40:45.539 --> 00:40:49.639
of what enabled that, I think. By 2010, you're

00:40:49.639 --> 00:40:53.119
back in Edmonton. And it's kind of a period where

00:40:53.119 --> 00:40:56.239
you're thinking, what should I do now? Which

00:40:56.239 --> 00:40:59.179
way do I want to turn? What makes sense? It seems

00:40:59.179 --> 00:41:02.980
like you wanted to continue to hone your craft,

00:41:03.340 --> 00:41:05.599
but really get an understanding. You had maybe

00:41:05.599 --> 00:41:09.699
always had an interest in music theory and just

00:41:09.699 --> 00:41:13.159
going back to school for this sort of thing to

00:41:13.159 --> 00:41:16.380
continue your career. So you apply at the University

00:41:16.380 --> 00:41:19.480
of Alberta and then several years later earn

00:41:19.480 --> 00:41:23.860
your BA music honors degree. Yeah. I can imagine

00:41:23.860 --> 00:41:26.199
you continuing to write and record, but just

00:41:26.199 --> 00:41:30.309
we probably don't get The new album how much

00:41:30.309 --> 00:41:34.050
muscle in its same inception without this period

00:41:34.050 --> 00:41:38.130
of your background Yeah, how proud are you of

00:41:38.130 --> 00:41:41.329
that experience and what it's done for your career?

00:41:42.670 --> 00:41:45.449
Um Gosh, that's a sort of a hard question to

00:41:45.449 --> 00:41:48.150
answer I think going to university at that time

00:41:48.150 --> 00:41:50.349
was kind of one of those things that I can make

00:41:50.349 --> 00:41:53.130
sense of in hindsight But like truly in that

00:41:53.130 --> 00:41:56.050
moment the thing that motivated me to enroll

00:41:56.050 --> 00:42:00.949
in university was was like sheer panic and like

00:42:00.949 --> 00:42:03.929
not knowing what to do because like the thing

00:42:03.929 --> 00:42:06.869
that had become my whole world was like had had

00:42:06.869 --> 00:42:09.030
fallen apart and like looking back now like I

00:42:09.030 --> 00:42:11.789
was in a right state like I was not not in a

00:42:11.789 --> 00:42:14.809
good place you know but and for whatever reason

00:42:14.809 --> 00:42:17.969
and well for I think for a variety of reasons

00:42:17.969 --> 00:42:19.989
that I you know that I could probably try to

00:42:19.989 --> 00:42:23.590
make sense of the way I responded to that total

00:42:23.590 --> 00:42:26.599
existential crisis was to to go to university.

00:42:27.099 --> 00:42:28.699
And part of the appeal of that was just the structure.

00:42:28.820 --> 00:42:32.480
It's like, I knew I needed, I needed something

00:42:32.480 --> 00:42:34.199
that was going to tell me just where I needed

00:42:34.199 --> 00:42:36.380
to go every day and what I needed to do, you

00:42:36.380 --> 00:42:39.659
know, like that, that was that. And it was, it

00:42:39.659 --> 00:42:41.239
felt like a luxury to be there, to be doing an

00:42:41.239 --> 00:42:43.300
undergraduate degree in your early thirties is

00:42:43.300 --> 00:42:45.469
actually a beautiful thing. Like I might argue

00:42:45.469 --> 00:42:47.789
it's the best time to go. You're so grateful

00:42:47.789 --> 00:42:51.889
to be there. You're never just like, oh, is it

00:42:51.889 --> 00:42:54.349
going to be on the exam? How much do I have to

00:42:54.349 --> 00:42:57.489
bear minimum I have to learn? You're just like,

00:42:57.670 --> 00:42:59.550
wow, all I have to do is learn all day? This

00:42:59.550 --> 00:43:04.690
is, wow, how lucky am I? So it really wasn't.

00:43:04.869 --> 00:43:06.750
I mean, I guess I did at the time see it as a

00:43:06.750 --> 00:43:09.289
part of a master plan. But at the time, what

00:43:09.289 --> 00:43:11.090
I thought that master plan was that I was like,

00:43:11.170 --> 00:43:13.139
I'm going to go all the way. I'm going to. you

00:43:13.139 --> 00:43:15.159
know, even though I'm just starting my undergraduate

00:43:15.159 --> 00:43:16.320
degree, I'm going to go all the way, I'm going

00:43:16.320 --> 00:43:18.380
to get a PhD. And now I'm going to be a music

00:43:18.380 --> 00:43:22.119
academic because like, because if I can drop

00:43:22.119 --> 00:43:25.000
one f -bomb, like, because like the music industry

00:43:25.000 --> 00:43:28.599
and like, I can't hack this. So I'm going to

00:43:28.599 --> 00:43:30.900
be an academic. That's my, you know, that's the

00:43:30.900 --> 00:43:34.860
thing I'm now clinging to. But I also I loved

00:43:34.860 --> 00:43:37.739
being in school. It was such a privilege and

00:43:37.739 --> 00:43:39.639
and like a luxury in so many ways. And so, yeah,

00:43:39.639 --> 00:43:41.800
I got my undergrad degree and then went into

00:43:41.800 --> 00:43:44.460
the master's program. But really, you know, never

00:43:44.460 --> 00:43:47.320
stopped playing at that time, even made another

00:43:47.320 --> 00:43:49.780
album that you may not have even found like at

00:43:49.780 --> 00:43:51.920
that time, because it's not really out there.

00:43:51.980 --> 00:43:54.059
Or maybe you did. I don't know. You did a deep

00:43:54.059 --> 00:43:57.280
dive. But I saw that that one fell away a little

00:43:57.280 --> 00:43:59.960
bit. But it but it did get made while I was in

00:43:59.960 --> 00:44:03.280
school. But by the time I was, you know, almost

00:44:03.280 --> 00:44:05.949
all the way through my master's program, I I

00:44:05.949 --> 00:44:07.969
had realized by that point, it's like, no, I

00:44:07.969 --> 00:44:10.849
really don't want to be an academic. First of

00:44:10.849 --> 00:44:13.530
all, I had discovered that academia is at least

00:44:13.530 --> 00:44:16.110
as much a racket as the music industry is. It

00:44:16.110 --> 00:44:20.610
truly is. And after about six years of being

00:44:20.610 --> 00:44:23.650
in university and also having had one child at

00:44:23.650 --> 00:44:25.730
that point, and I didn't have the second one

00:44:25.730 --> 00:44:29.170
yet, but I was like, I got to play. I got to

00:44:29.170 --> 00:44:31.789
get back to playing. So for various reasons,

00:44:31.869 --> 00:44:33.570
I dropped out of my master's program. I'm now

00:44:33.570 --> 00:44:36.079
back in it. just finishing up the first draft

00:44:36.079 --> 00:44:38.400
of my thesis, just to get the thesis done. You

00:44:38.400 --> 00:44:41.420
know, I'm not, I don't plan to participate in

00:44:41.420 --> 00:44:44.139
academia, but I'm just, I just want to put a

00:44:44.139 --> 00:44:47.599
cap on this project. So yeah, it was like, as

00:44:47.599 --> 00:44:50.099
I look at it now, it's like, the university was

00:44:50.099 --> 00:44:52.420
like a very, very valuable and wonderful place

00:44:52.420 --> 00:44:55.440
to be at a time in my life where I just needed

00:44:55.440 --> 00:45:03.659
something to hold me. like dissolving into you

00:45:03.659 --> 00:45:06.460
know thin air because like everything was just

00:45:06.460 --> 00:45:09.679
you know life as I had envisioned it was like

00:45:09.679 --> 00:45:13.059
clearly not happening you know like I think you

00:45:13.059 --> 00:45:14.880
know everyone has these points in their life

00:45:14.880 --> 00:45:17.119
where it's just like you had a plan and you were

00:45:17.119 --> 00:45:19.260
just like throwing everything at that plan and

00:45:19.260 --> 00:45:22.500
then it just somehow it doesn't become sustainable

00:45:22.500 --> 00:45:24.719
or it doesn't pan out and it just like it makes

00:45:24.719 --> 00:45:29.500
you feel like you are gonna just like go swirly

00:45:29.500 --> 00:45:31.039
into the heart of the sun or something, you know,

00:45:31.059 --> 00:45:33.679
it just feels really big. I don't know how to,

00:45:34.059 --> 00:45:36.380
you know. Yeah. You just feel like you're, you're

00:45:36.380 --> 00:45:39.559
wandering and adrift and maybe you just, like

00:45:39.559 --> 00:45:43.199
you said, wanted to plug in some structure and

00:45:43.199 --> 00:45:45.420
say, okay, I got to fill out my days a little

00:45:45.420 --> 00:45:50.260
bit more, get them a little more organized. I

00:45:50.260 --> 00:45:52.480
need to go to bed at a certain time. Maybe that

00:45:52.480 --> 00:45:54.480
would be good for me. Maybe I need to be told

00:45:54.480 --> 00:45:57.789
that I need to be somewhere at this time. Yeah,

00:45:57.849 --> 00:46:00.010
yeah, I remember a transitional period that was

00:46:00.010 --> 00:46:02.349
kind of funny for my first semester of university

00:46:02.349 --> 00:46:05.050
I remember doing most of my homework in bars

00:46:05.050 --> 00:46:07.690
like drinking pints because like that was the

00:46:07.690 --> 00:46:09.570
environment I was used to being in and it was

00:46:09.570 --> 00:46:11.309
like it would have been too much of a culture

00:46:11.309 --> 00:46:13.969
shock To just go straight to like sitting in

00:46:13.969 --> 00:46:15.730
the library all day So I would I would go to

00:46:15.730 --> 00:46:18.190
the bar and like get a pint and like read do

00:46:18.190 --> 00:46:26.380
my reading Yeah Well by 2017 The Earth That You're

00:46:26.380 --> 00:46:29.739
Made Of record, you're finally getting some recognition.

00:46:30.380 --> 00:46:33.599
People are starting to pay attention, and this

00:46:33.599 --> 00:46:36.099
record earns you a nomination for Contemporary

00:46:36.099 --> 00:46:40.199
Singer of the Year with the Canadian Folk Music

00:46:40.199 --> 00:46:43.059
Awards. That must have been a big moment just

00:46:43.059 --> 00:46:45.300
to finally say, all right, all right, I've got

00:46:45.300 --> 00:46:48.300
this body of work here, and I'm proud of this

00:46:48.300 --> 00:46:50.820
new release, and I'm actually getting up to the

00:46:50.820 --> 00:46:53.639
top of the heap here after all these years. Yeah,

00:46:53.679 --> 00:46:55.880
I mean it did feel like that. I mean, it's it's

00:46:55.880 --> 00:46:59.900
funny things like awards like that are When you

00:46:59.900 --> 00:47:01.639
do get a nomination for an award or something

00:47:01.639 --> 00:47:04.699
like that It's it's a wonderful thing and it's

00:47:04.699 --> 00:47:06.739
you know, you you feel grateful for it and it

00:47:06.739 --> 00:47:10.440
serves a purpose but you know, it's like looking

00:47:10.440 --> 00:47:13.820
back it's like Those are never the things that

00:47:13.820 --> 00:47:17.079
are like that can make you feel like just proud

00:47:17.079 --> 00:47:19.179
of the merit of the work because there's so many

00:47:19.360 --> 00:47:21.920
factors that go into who gets nominated for awards

00:47:21.920 --> 00:47:24.719
versus who doesn't that that have to do with

00:47:24.719 --> 00:47:27.179
how you're playing the game, you know, and not

00:47:27.179 --> 00:47:29.320
necessarily the merit. But but that, you know,

00:47:29.360 --> 00:47:31.760
that was definitely part of it. There was, you

00:47:31.760 --> 00:47:34.119
know, the general kind of environment at the

00:47:34.119 --> 00:47:36.480
time and how I was feeling. That was really it

00:47:36.480 --> 00:47:38.119
was really making that record where I felt for

00:47:38.119 --> 00:47:40.900
the first time like I feel confident that I do

00:47:40.900 --> 00:47:43.780
what I do well. And, you know, when you're younger,

00:47:43.880 --> 00:47:46.179
it's like you know I dedicated my whole life

00:47:46.179 --> 00:47:47.980
through my 20s to music making and making all

00:47:47.980 --> 00:47:49.500
these records and stuff but really there was

00:47:49.500 --> 00:47:52.000
like this huge part of me the whole time just

00:47:52.000 --> 00:47:55.500
feeling like I'm a total imposter you know it's

00:47:55.500 --> 00:47:57.440
like this is a classic thing imposter syndrome

00:47:57.440 --> 00:47:59.119
and it's like I think it was when I made Earth

00:47:59.119 --> 00:48:00.780
That You're Made Of where I really felt like

00:48:00.780 --> 00:48:03.460
no I think I feel confident that I know how to

00:48:03.460 --> 00:48:07.440
do this and that I do it well and so that did

00:48:07.440 --> 00:48:09.980
feel like a turning point in that way and yeah

00:48:09.980 --> 00:48:12.949
you know getting that award nomination was was

00:48:12.949 --> 00:48:16.769
super cool like that was very cool and you know

00:48:16.769 --> 00:48:20.429
a rare thing for me dana my favorite track on

00:48:20.429 --> 00:48:22.690
the earth that you're made of is sliver of a

00:48:22.690 --> 00:48:27.309
moon oh i meant to ask on the new record i'm

00:48:27.309 --> 00:48:30.670
always curious how many of these songs survive

00:48:30.670 --> 00:48:33.190
into the next touring cycle do you perform that

00:48:33.190 --> 00:48:36.510
one much or are you do you like that song sliver

00:48:36.510 --> 00:48:42.730
of a moon yeah that sounds like No, but no that's

00:48:42.730 --> 00:48:43.730
it's interesting that you would ask that about

00:48:43.730 --> 00:48:45.690
that particular song because no I do like it

00:48:45.690 --> 00:48:48.590
very much and I almost never play it I have a

00:48:48.590 --> 00:48:52.409
few songs like that that I really that that people

00:48:52.409 --> 00:48:54.969
respond to well and on the albums and things

00:48:54.969 --> 00:48:58.730
like that, but that just don't always feel appropriate

00:48:58.730 --> 00:49:02.130
to bring out in certain concert context for whatever

00:49:02.130 --> 00:49:03.869
reason and often that's just because I'm playing

00:49:03.869 --> 00:49:06.309
in places where you know, I mean less and less

00:49:06.309 --> 00:49:08.010
over time, but like I've spent a lot of my life

00:49:08.010 --> 00:49:10.539
playing in places where you might be competing

00:49:10.539 --> 00:49:12.699
for attention with, you might be playing in a

00:49:12.699 --> 00:49:14.639
bar or something where like the hockey game's

00:49:14.639 --> 00:49:20.400
on. So when I do do that song live, I'll pull

00:49:20.400 --> 00:49:22.059
it out in a context where I'm playing at a festival

00:49:22.059 --> 00:49:24.960
or in a soft seat theater or something like that.

00:49:25.340 --> 00:49:28.559
But also it's something that that song in particular,

00:49:29.139 --> 00:49:31.699
the string quartet on that is like such a big

00:49:31.699 --> 00:49:34.280
part of what it is that it's interesting that

00:49:34.280 --> 00:49:36.659
you would have that thought because I don't play

00:49:36.659 --> 00:49:40.280
it live that much. Yeah, that song and a few

00:49:40.280 --> 00:49:43.360
others, I think you had this quality about your

00:49:43.360 --> 00:49:47.159
singing style, your delivery. It feels like it

00:49:47.159 --> 00:49:50.380
would be appropriate even decades ago. If you

00:49:50.380 --> 00:49:53.719
go way back to maybe the kind of early, mid -part

00:49:53.719 --> 00:49:57.880
of the 20th century, this is like just a throwback,

00:49:58.500 --> 00:50:01.260
very welcoming sound, I think. It's just you

00:50:01.260 --> 00:50:06.289
don't hear that delivery. that message, I mean,

00:50:06.369 --> 00:50:08.710
the sliver of a moon. I'm just imagining how

00:50:08.710 --> 00:50:11.989
the lyrics came to you if you're wandering around

00:50:11.989 --> 00:50:16.190
one night and observing the moon and that one

00:50:16.190 --> 00:50:20.349
particularly had an impact with me. Oh, thank

00:50:20.349 --> 00:50:23.150
you. It's funny, I hadn't thought about it as

00:50:23.150 --> 00:50:26.630
being kind of, you know, a throwback to the earlier

00:50:26.630 --> 00:50:29.110
mid 20th century in that way, but that, I mean,

00:50:29.289 --> 00:50:32.510
music from that time, it's very present for me

00:50:32.510 --> 00:50:35.730
and it's beloved to me. So that's interesting.

00:50:36.849 --> 00:50:40.550
Now, let's talk real quick about, man, Dana,

00:50:40.750 --> 00:50:43.949
you have a lot on your plate. And I was thinking

00:50:43.949 --> 00:50:47.449
about that today. Do you like to keep a full

00:50:47.449 --> 00:50:52.050
plate and have just have some activity in several

00:50:52.050 --> 00:50:55.809
different areas if you can? I'm kind of a cut

00:50:55.809 --> 00:51:00.829
of that cloth where I can relax. I like to relax,

00:51:00.829 --> 00:51:05.170
but not for very long. Yeah, I would say we're

00:51:05.170 --> 00:51:09.429
the same in that way. But the Leonard and Joni,

00:51:09.510 --> 00:51:12.329
the untold love story, you're actually back in

00:51:12.329 --> 00:51:15.650
the theater realm and taking this performance

00:51:15.650 --> 00:51:20.050
on the road in Alberta. I wanted to highlight

00:51:20.050 --> 00:51:22.130
that. Yeah, that wasn't something I initiated

00:51:22.130 --> 00:51:25.449
actually. There are two, the guys producing that

00:51:25.449 --> 00:51:29.369
show, one of whom wrote it, they approached me

00:51:29.369 --> 00:51:33.239
to back last spring when they were just got the

00:51:33.239 --> 00:51:34.719
idea and were wanting to write it, they wanted

00:51:34.719 --> 00:51:37.079
me to do the Joanie bit. So I talked them into

00:51:37.079 --> 00:51:40.639
hiring my band for it, which they did. And we

00:51:40.639 --> 00:51:44.019
did it at a venue here in October and now we're

00:51:44.019 --> 00:51:46.559
going on the road. So yeah, that's an interesting

00:51:46.559 --> 00:51:48.900
opportunity to, it's not exactly theater, but

00:51:48.900 --> 00:51:51.780
it's definitely storytelling. So, you know, that

00:51:51.780 --> 00:51:54.679
skill set definitely comes into play. in a really

00:51:54.679 --> 00:51:57.219
wonderful way. And, you know, I definitely had

00:51:57.219 --> 00:51:59.519
a period of my life where I was way too immersed

00:51:59.519 --> 00:52:02.260
in Joni Mitchell and had to kind of emerge from

00:52:02.260 --> 00:52:06.300
that cocoon at some point. But, you know, I know

00:52:06.300 --> 00:52:10.480
her story and I know her catalog well. And I

00:52:10.480 --> 00:52:13.440
mean, you know, Leonard Cohen is so fantastic,

00:52:13.599 --> 00:52:15.920
too. So, you know, even though I didn't initiate

00:52:15.920 --> 00:52:19.360
this project, I feel so lucky that someone is

00:52:19.360 --> 00:52:23.320
doing it and that I'm a part of it. It's brilliant.

00:52:24.280 --> 00:52:27.539
And so they Leonard Leonard Cohen and Joni Mitchell

00:52:27.539 --> 00:52:32.400
had a brief love affair in with the mid late

00:52:32.400 --> 00:52:35.920
60s With 67 it was yeah, which interestingly

00:52:35.920 --> 00:52:40.119
is before Before he really got famous. I mean,

00:52:40.119 --> 00:52:42.940
he's sort of funny It's like he kind of had the

00:52:42.940 --> 00:52:44.780
height of his fame when he was in his 80s, you

00:52:44.780 --> 00:52:48.139
know or late late 70s but but it was before either

00:52:48.139 --> 00:52:49.960
of them really got famous and before Joni had

00:52:49.960 --> 00:52:53.000
even released an album, but they they were both

00:52:53.000 --> 00:52:55.639
on the early stage of things um and I mean the

00:52:55.639 --> 00:52:59.980
story is that Judy Collins had decided to produce

00:52:59.980 --> 00:53:02.820
both of their songs for an album that she made

00:53:02.820 --> 00:53:05.340
she she put both sides now on it and she also

00:53:05.340 --> 00:53:08.420
did uh Suzanne which the Leonard Cohen song and

00:53:08.420 --> 00:53:10.440
this was around the same time period that she

00:53:10.440 --> 00:53:12.219
had been introduced to the work of these songwriters

00:53:12.219 --> 00:53:15.559
and she I guess as as a gesture of gratitude

00:53:15.559 --> 00:53:18.590
for them having you know given her these songs

00:53:18.590 --> 00:53:21.570
to that she I think had big hits with um she

00:53:21.570 --> 00:53:23.329
got she arranged for them both to be invited

00:53:23.329 --> 00:53:25.869
to perform at the Newport Folk Festival in 67

00:53:25.869 --> 00:53:28.030
even though they were both pretty unknown and

00:53:28.030 --> 00:53:30.030
that's where they met and then they they just

00:53:30.030 --> 00:53:32.510
hit it off and I think they were together for

00:53:32.510 --> 00:53:36.550
the better part of a year and and then you know

00:53:36.550 --> 00:53:39.570
life goes on and and and their lives changed

00:53:39.570 --> 00:53:42.190
quite dramatically from around that point too

00:53:42.190 --> 00:53:45.199
so yeah it's an interesting little often unknown

00:53:45.199 --> 00:53:49.099
piece of their histories. And speaking of Joni

00:53:49.099 --> 00:53:51.980
Mitchell as an influence to you, some more press,

00:53:52.019 --> 00:53:54.280
some more acclaim coming your way from Penguin

00:53:54.280 --> 00:53:58.420
Eggs magazine once called Dana Wiley, the you're

00:53:58.420 --> 00:54:00.800
the only artist that they are comfortable comparing

00:54:00.800 --> 00:54:03.519
favorably to Joni Mitchell in the scope of her

00:54:03.519 --> 00:54:08.539
talent ever. So that's some high praise. That

00:54:08.539 --> 00:54:10.639
was a that was the thrilling one for me to read.

00:54:12.380 --> 00:54:15.460
I can see, you know, I mean, it's you know, Joni

00:54:15.460 --> 00:54:17.639
Mitchell's acclaim as an artist is pretty universal.

00:54:17.679 --> 00:54:20.000
So it's generally speaking, it's high praise.

00:54:20.179 --> 00:54:23.699
But, you know, for me personally, to having I

00:54:23.699 --> 00:54:25.619
feel like I have a complicated relationship with

00:54:25.619 --> 00:54:30.679
her music, but but a deep one. So so yeah, that's

00:54:30.679 --> 00:54:33.219
one of the most thrilling things I've ever anyone's

00:54:33.219 --> 00:54:36.219
ever said to me or written about me for sure.

00:54:37.940 --> 00:54:40.559
And then also the I haven't heard any of these

00:54:40.559 --> 00:54:44.269
songs. But I'd love to the release date is September

00:54:44.269 --> 00:54:46.829
of this year and we mentioned I think at the

00:54:46.829 --> 00:54:51.590
top of the episode secondhand dream car the Edmonton

00:54:51.590 --> 00:54:54.750
area supergroup You've been doing a residency

00:54:54.750 --> 00:54:59.489
at a local club there and that the album answer

00:54:59.489 --> 00:55:03.849
the call is planned for later this year Seems

00:55:03.849 --> 00:55:05.550
like you're having a lot of fun with this and

00:55:05.550 --> 00:55:07.449
what's the response when you guys were out there?

00:55:07.769 --> 00:55:10.800
I'm sure people that are part of the scene all

00:55:10.800 --> 00:55:13.079
kind of get together then naturally you just

00:55:13.079 --> 00:55:15.239
well hey what if we did this what if you want

00:55:15.239 --> 00:55:17.300
to come up and jam or do you want to I guess

00:55:17.300 --> 00:55:18.980
it just comes together if you've been around

00:55:18.980 --> 00:55:21.840
a while and you make friends do you have a lot

00:55:21.840 --> 00:55:24.360
of fun just getting up there and playing with

00:55:24.360 --> 00:55:28.400
people that you've known for a while yeah it's

00:55:28.400 --> 00:55:31.829
it's fantastic it's very special I mean, you

00:55:31.829 --> 00:55:34.570
mentioned earlier that this was a side project,

00:55:34.590 --> 00:55:37.289
but I almost feel now like my thing has become

00:55:37.289 --> 00:55:40.130
a side project and I'm pretty focused on Second

00:55:40.130 --> 00:55:43.809
Hand Dream Car right now because it is one of

00:55:43.809 --> 00:55:45.889
those things that just sort of came from being

00:55:45.889 --> 00:55:49.010
around. Three of us in the band actually were

00:55:49.010 --> 00:55:51.989
just asked to come together to form a house band

00:55:51.989 --> 00:55:54.510
for something called a Pro Jam, which was happening

00:55:54.510 --> 00:55:58.150
at a different venue actually, which was a kind

00:55:58.150 --> 00:56:00.480
of meant to be a thing where like kind of like

00:56:00.480 --> 00:56:03.019
a jam a jam night but for professional musicians

00:56:03.019 --> 00:56:04.380
and they wanted to have a house band that played

00:56:04.380 --> 00:56:07.530
at the beginning of the night and so I was asked

00:56:07.530 --> 00:56:09.369
to be the keyboard player and singer in that

00:56:09.369 --> 00:56:12.849
band, and my good friend Harry, who also has

00:56:12.849 --> 00:56:14.989
produced my last three records, he was asked

00:56:14.989 --> 00:56:17.130
to be the bass player, so obviously we had history.

00:56:17.849 --> 00:56:19.650
And the person actually putting that band together

00:56:19.650 --> 00:56:21.929
is the drummer Jamie Cooper, who I had never

00:56:21.929 --> 00:56:24.150
played with before, although we knew each other

00:56:24.150 --> 00:56:27.070
socially. And we had another guitar player playing

00:56:27.070 --> 00:56:30.489
with us named Enoch, who has his own project,

00:56:30.530 --> 00:56:32.690
so he hasn't ended up in this band. But yeah,

00:56:32.750 --> 00:56:35.550
we started playing together. Once a week learning

00:56:35.550 --> 00:56:39.170
a few cover tunes to do this gig basically and

00:56:39.170 --> 00:56:41.630
and after about six months of that We were just

00:56:41.630 --> 00:56:44.889
really starting to feel like wow. We really we're

00:56:44.889 --> 00:56:46.809
vibing pretty nice together you know this is

00:56:46.809 --> 00:56:49.250
starting to feel like it like it's something

00:56:49.250 --> 00:56:52.110
and and you know two years on from that we are

00:56:52.110 --> 00:56:53.869
very much a band we brought some other people

00:56:53.869 --> 00:56:57.429
into it and and yeah we we've recorded an album

00:56:57.429 --> 00:56:59.570
and we're playing every week to have a residency

00:56:59.570 --> 00:57:02.030
as a as a new band and play every week is just

00:57:02.030 --> 00:57:05.389
the most valuable thing and um it's very exciting

00:57:05.389 --> 00:57:08.789
um it's it's different it's kind of like soul

00:57:08.789 --> 00:57:13.690
soul roots blues rock music, you know, it's,

00:57:13.909 --> 00:57:16.389
it's quite different from, from what I do, but

00:57:16.389 --> 00:57:18.590
it's like music that's so close to my heart.

00:57:18.789 --> 00:57:21.650
And yeah, when, when a band comes together where

00:57:21.650 --> 00:57:25.349
it's really, really just working in, it's so

00:57:25.349 --> 00:57:27.150
clearly that like greater than the sum of its

00:57:27.150 --> 00:57:30.170
parts kind of a thing. It's like, that's a special

00:57:30.170 --> 00:57:34.130
thing to be nurtured and, and to just be grateful

00:57:34.130 --> 00:57:37.150
for, you know? Well, I can't wait to hear the

00:57:37.150 --> 00:57:40.389
music and I'm excited without even having heard

00:57:40.389 --> 00:57:43.500
it that you're shifting your focus in this direction.

00:57:44.239 --> 00:57:46.579
Because if I feel like I've heard the best of

00:57:46.579 --> 00:57:50.119
Dana Wiley on how much muscle I can't wait for

00:57:50.119 --> 00:57:57.659
what's coming next. And I wish I wish I was a

00:57:57.659 --> 00:58:00.579
little bit closer to the area. But, you know,

00:58:00.719 --> 00:58:03.460
never say never. I like to travel. So hopefully

00:58:03.460 --> 00:58:07.539
one day, speaking of Edmonton, for some people,

00:58:07.719 --> 00:58:10.300
my listeners who have never visited that area,

00:58:11.860 --> 00:58:15.880
How vibrant is the local music scene? The art

00:58:15.880 --> 00:58:18.719
scene and if they just want to go take it take

00:58:18.719 --> 00:58:22.380
a trip there That's a great question Edmonton

00:58:22.380 --> 00:58:26.300
has a really particular and rich cultural history

00:58:26.300 --> 00:58:28.860
I'd say that you know the music scene right now

00:58:28.860 --> 00:58:32.699
I'd like there to be more going on and with us

00:58:32.699 --> 00:58:35.659
starting up this residency playing every week

00:58:35.659 --> 00:58:38.139
we like we have a strong intention to we want

00:58:38.139 --> 00:58:40.630
to move the whole scene in the direction of where

00:58:40.630 --> 00:58:43.130
Edmonton can be the kind of town where any night

00:58:43.130 --> 00:58:45.989
of the week, if you want to go hear great music,

00:58:46.090 --> 00:58:48.650
like you can do that somewhere. You know, you

00:58:48.650 --> 00:58:50.829
can go hear a great band because we have so much.

00:58:51.150 --> 00:58:54.190
There's so many great local musicians and that

00:58:54.190 --> 00:58:56.150
we're trying to kind of push the culture in that

00:58:56.150 --> 00:59:00.210
direction because we really did once have that.

00:59:01.289 --> 00:59:04.150
And thanks to I don't know, whatever the cultural

00:59:04.150 --> 00:59:07.110
environment was in the through the 60s and 70s,

00:59:07.110 --> 00:59:10.869
it allowed for So I mean, the Edmonton Fringe

00:59:10.869 --> 00:59:12.889
Festival, which is a theater festival, was founded

00:59:12.889 --> 00:59:15.269
in 1980, which is the same year as the Folk Festival

00:59:15.269 --> 00:59:17.869
here. And this was all started by, you know,

00:59:18.110 --> 00:59:21.530
grassroots. These were totally grassroots operations.

00:59:22.190 --> 00:59:24.449
And, you know, Edmonton has always had that.

00:59:24.769 --> 00:59:26.650
And I felt that when I moved here in the late

00:59:26.650 --> 00:59:30.630
90s, nearly 20 years on from these things, you

00:59:30.630 --> 00:59:32.869
know, this part of the of the cultural legacy,

00:59:33.090 --> 00:59:35.190
I felt that like I felt it immediately when I

00:59:35.190 --> 00:59:36.909
moved here. I was like, this is a place where

00:59:36.909 --> 00:59:40.699
people just make stuff. they don't wait for you

00:59:40.699 --> 00:59:44.420
know someone in Toronto to like notice them and

00:59:44.420 --> 00:59:47.039
give them a pile of money like or or whatever

00:59:47.039 --> 00:59:49.840
it is people just make stuff you know and and

00:59:49.840 --> 00:59:51.099
they find a way to make it work whether they

00:59:51.099 --> 00:59:53.440
have money or not and and that's why I fell in

00:59:53.440 --> 00:59:55.500
love with the city and that's that's why having

00:59:55.500 --> 00:59:57.340
left the country for several years when I came

00:59:57.340 --> 01:00:00.000
back it was like there was no question for me

01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:02.260
where I would move back to when I came back to

01:00:02.260 --> 01:00:06.400
Canada um because that is so that's what I feel

01:00:06.400 --> 01:00:10.039
is special about Edmonton. And it has to do with

01:00:10.039 --> 01:00:13.800
all kinds of economic factors, like where Edmonton

01:00:13.800 --> 01:00:18.320
has fit in the larger economy of Alberta and

01:00:18.320 --> 01:00:22.119
Canada, that it's never been quite as moneyed

01:00:22.119 --> 01:00:25.539
as Calgary, because here in Alberta, it's oil

01:00:25.539 --> 01:00:28.579
and gas country. And all the oil companies, they

01:00:28.579 --> 01:00:31.039
have their offices in Calgary. And Edmonton has

01:00:31.039 --> 01:00:34.380
traditionally been a bit more blue collar. But

01:00:34.380 --> 01:00:36.800
it's the capital city, so we have the provincial

01:00:36.800 --> 01:00:40.679
legislature here. So this matrix of all kinds

01:00:40.679 --> 01:00:45.559
of factors that have meant that what has grown

01:00:45.559 --> 01:00:47.840
through the latter part of the 20th century and

01:00:47.840 --> 01:00:51.679
into this one is like a real grassroots cultural

01:00:51.679 --> 01:00:56.239
scene, which is in theater and music and other

01:00:56.239 --> 01:00:59.900
artistic pursuits as well. And so our thing with

01:00:59.900 --> 01:01:02.960
our band is that is that we feel like for various

01:01:02.960 --> 01:01:05.820
reasons that that's been lost a little bit. Like,

01:01:05.920 --> 01:01:08.340
you know, the Fringe Festival now is still it's

01:01:08.340 --> 01:01:10.360
still a wonderful thing, but it's huge now. And

01:01:10.360 --> 01:01:12.500
it's you know, it's it's a lot more corporate

01:01:12.500 --> 01:01:14.639
than it used to be. And, you know, like everything

01:01:14.639 --> 01:01:16.519
moves in that, you know, the Edmonton Folk Festival

01:01:16.519 --> 01:01:19.679
now is also huge. You know, like they sell twenty

01:01:19.679 --> 01:01:22.440
five thousand tickets and they they hire two

01:01:22.440 --> 01:01:24.599
local acts every year. They hire dozens and dozens

01:01:24.599 --> 01:01:28.010
of acts, the vast majority of which. are not

01:01:28.010 --> 01:01:30.889
from Edmonton you know so it's like the bigger

01:01:30.889 --> 01:01:35.269
it gets yeah yeah exactly you know that's that's

01:01:35.269 --> 01:01:38.650
how things go I guess but we we really feel like

01:01:38.650 --> 01:01:41.010
and I've always felt very strongly like Edmonton

01:01:41.010 --> 01:01:43.070
has this and I can appreciate that as someone

01:01:43.070 --> 01:01:46.710
who who moved here at some point who didn't you

01:01:46.710 --> 01:01:48.789
know grow up here and take it for granted it's

01:01:48.789 --> 01:01:50.570
like it really blew my mind when I first moved

01:01:50.570 --> 01:01:53.650
here at the age of 17 particularly in contrast

01:01:53.650 --> 01:01:56.869
to where I was from, you know, a small prairie

01:01:56.869 --> 01:02:00.070
town that just didn't have, you know, everything

01:02:00.070 --> 01:02:03.489
kind of revolved around, you know, hockey, really,

01:02:03.530 --> 01:02:06.929
you know. So with our with our band, like we

01:02:06.929 --> 01:02:10.090
hope to be a part of of moving our scene in the

01:02:10.090 --> 01:02:12.210
direction of I think back in the direction of

01:02:12.210 --> 01:02:14.070
what it always has been like back to its heart

01:02:14.070 --> 01:02:17.929
as a really vibrant grassroots, you know, and

01:02:17.929 --> 01:02:20.849
proud to be what it is, you know. I was reading

01:02:20.849 --> 01:02:24.369
about the Ravenwood Festival. I guess you played

01:02:24.369 --> 01:02:27.570
that last year. Yes. Oh, no, I played a few years

01:02:27.570 --> 01:02:30.090
ago. I think it was 2018, but I, they have a

01:02:30.090 --> 01:02:33.070
music club and they're doing a whole and I did

01:02:33.070 --> 01:02:36.630
that just last week. But I love this, um, uh,

01:02:36.630 --> 01:02:39.409
this quote that you said about live music, live

01:02:39.409 --> 01:02:42.090
settings for where music lives. It's so important,

01:02:42.309 --> 01:02:45.289
not only to the local music community, but to

01:02:45.289 --> 01:02:48.409
the community in general. I love how you say

01:02:48.409 --> 01:02:51.460
that because a vibrant music community. just

01:02:51.460 --> 01:02:55.980
kind of spills out into the rest of the community.

01:02:58.539 --> 01:03:02.340
Music includes people. It welcomes people. You

01:03:02.340 --> 01:03:05.059
can usually show up to a music venue wearing

01:03:05.059 --> 01:03:07.380
what you want to wear, being who you want to

01:03:07.380 --> 01:03:10.420
be. You can come with a pack of people. You can

01:03:10.420 --> 01:03:14.760
walk in by yourself. Music is welcoming. So I

01:03:14.760 --> 01:03:17.960
just love how you say that. Yeah, that's so true.

01:03:17.960 --> 01:03:21.320
That's well said. And wow, we could keep going

01:03:21.320 --> 01:03:24.420
and going. We'll probably have to cut it a little

01:03:24.420 --> 01:03:28.039
bit short, but I also want to speak to the Duets

01:03:28.039 --> 01:03:30.380
album that you've got scheduled with Sammy Volkov.

01:03:31.099 --> 01:03:34.199
I have no idea what that's about. I mean, other

01:03:34.199 --> 01:03:36.900
than... That's just another thing, you know.

01:03:36.920 --> 01:03:40.860
You've got a lot of things on your plate. But

01:03:40.860 --> 01:03:43.280
I want to put that out there. Everybody listening,

01:03:43.539 --> 01:03:47.119
also check out Makings of a Voice. Yeah, kind

01:03:47.119 --> 01:03:52.019
of a theater storytelling piece that I have done

01:03:52.019 --> 01:03:56.940
a few times over the last well since 2021 I guess

01:03:56.940 --> 01:04:00.639
I wrote I wrote it through through 2019 2020

01:04:00.639 --> 01:04:04.119
and then in 2021 I Performed it and then I did

01:04:04.119 --> 01:04:05.880
it at our fringe festival actually just this

01:04:05.880 --> 01:04:09.079
past summer and you know how that how and why

01:04:09.079 --> 01:04:13.139
I decided I wanted to write what it is is it's

01:04:13.139 --> 01:04:15.519
a storytelling piece that's extremely personal

01:04:15.519 --> 01:04:18.380
and autobiographical and interweaves my songs

01:04:18.380 --> 01:04:22.960
with the storytelling. So it's not exactly a

01:04:22.960 --> 01:04:25.179
play but it's not a concert and I don't know

01:04:25.179 --> 01:04:28.800
quite what it is but and I couldn't tell you

01:04:28.800 --> 01:04:31.840
now why I felt at some point a few years ago

01:04:31.840 --> 01:04:33.800
like this was a thing I really needed to do but

01:04:33.800 --> 01:04:37.179
I did and so I don't know when I'll when I'll

01:04:37.179 --> 01:04:41.289
perform it again but But you know it addresses

01:04:41.289 --> 01:04:43.809
all kinds of things about being an artist and

01:04:43.809 --> 01:04:46.389
being a mother and you know cut the complications

01:04:46.389 --> 01:04:51.030
of maternal lineages and things like that Now

01:04:51.030 --> 01:04:53.130
that you mentioned motherhood, I forgot to really

01:04:53.130 --> 01:04:56.710
dedicate Time to this topic. We'll try to do

01:04:56.710 --> 01:05:00.889
it real quickly. How has being a mother as a

01:05:00.889 --> 01:05:04.809
creative person You know young kids they can

01:05:04.969 --> 01:05:07.409
They can kind of get it in the way, or kind of

01:05:07.409 --> 01:05:10.670
disrupt just everyday tasks around the house

01:05:10.670 --> 01:05:12.730
that can drive you nuts. But when you've got

01:05:12.730 --> 01:05:14.510
an idea and you want to be working on something,

01:05:14.869 --> 01:05:18.389
but... Well, I also have a two -year -old, so

01:05:18.389 --> 01:05:21.489
I need to shelve this for a while. Do you go

01:05:21.489 --> 01:05:24.429
through stuff like that? I mean, we love our

01:05:24.429 --> 01:05:26.329
children. I'm not trying to paint a different

01:05:26.329 --> 01:05:30.849
picture, but how has motherhood and your craft

01:05:30.849 --> 01:05:34.199
blended? Do they coexist? Do you include the

01:05:34.199 --> 01:05:39.280
kids? Yeah, I think they really do coexist. And

01:05:39.280 --> 01:05:42.000
I mean, I prefer them to. It's not nice when

01:05:42.000 --> 01:05:45.619
life starts to feel super compartmentalized,

01:05:45.820 --> 01:05:47.780
although it does inevitably. There is a real

01:05:47.780 --> 01:05:51.219
contrast between, for example, last night was

01:05:51.219 --> 01:05:52.840
the night I do the residency with Secondhand

01:05:52.840 --> 01:05:56.079
Dream Car. So I was out at a blues bar playing

01:05:56.079 --> 01:05:59.539
from 8 to midnight. And then I get home late,

01:05:59.539 --> 01:06:03.110
and I get to bed late. And, you know, then I

01:06:03.110 --> 01:06:04.650
got to get up in the morning and it's this whole

01:06:04.650 --> 01:06:07.969
daytime. It's like, in some ways, the contrasts

01:06:07.969 --> 01:06:14.070
are very real. But they weave together and, you

01:06:14.070 --> 01:06:17.090
know, my kids will, you know, I teach music lessons

01:06:17.090 --> 01:06:19.190
in my house, too. That's part of how I make my

01:06:19.190 --> 01:06:22.510
living. And, you know, sometimes my son is playing

01:06:22.510 --> 01:06:24.389
in the living room while I'm teaching a piano

01:06:24.389 --> 01:06:27.489
lesson because that's how it has to be. And sometimes

01:06:27.489 --> 01:06:29.610
my kids come to gigs with me. And I went back

01:06:29.610 --> 01:06:33.030
to England last summer for about two weeks um

01:06:33.030 --> 01:06:34.889
to do some shows with my old bandmates and my

01:06:34.889 --> 01:06:37.610
10 year old came with me and that was her first

01:06:37.610 --> 01:06:41.429
big trip away from Canada and and it was you

01:06:41.429 --> 01:06:43.050
know it was all kinds of things it was it was

01:06:43.050 --> 01:06:45.309
challenging to to bring her and it was all so

01:06:45.309 --> 01:06:47.690
fantastic and in the end like for her to have

01:06:47.690 --> 01:06:49.750
had that experience felt afterwards like the

01:06:49.750 --> 01:06:53.369
main reason to have done it you know so for me

01:06:53.369 --> 01:06:57.489
it's like integration is is always what what

01:06:57.489 --> 01:06:59.449
you want, you know, you want life to just feel

01:06:59.449 --> 01:07:01.769
like it's one thing, you know, and it's funny

01:07:01.769 --> 01:07:04.130
because, you know, yeah, inevitably having kids

01:07:04.130 --> 01:07:08.309
makes it really hard to be a creative person

01:07:08.309 --> 01:07:11.670
and a musician in particular. Like, I think it

01:07:11.670 --> 01:07:13.590
is true, you know, I don't have stats to back

01:07:13.590 --> 01:07:15.230
this up, but I think it is true that the vast

01:07:15.230 --> 01:07:19.010
majority of women making music full time and

01:07:19.010 --> 01:07:21.530
participating in the industry don't have kids.

01:07:21.750 --> 01:07:25.769
I think that it's certainly my observation. because

01:07:25.769 --> 01:07:29.489
it's not easy. What music as an industry asks

01:07:29.489 --> 01:07:32.590
of you is kind of total, you know? But on the

01:07:32.590 --> 01:07:35.150
other hand, it's like I can't conceive of being

01:07:35.150 --> 01:07:37.570
able to, you know, be creative and do all this

01:07:37.570 --> 01:07:40.829
stuff with that. Like having kids was just so

01:07:40.829 --> 01:07:43.110
essentially grounding for me in a way that I

01:07:43.110 --> 01:07:45.849
don't even want to think about the person I would

01:07:45.849 --> 01:07:48.809
be right now if I didn't have kids, you know?

01:07:48.889 --> 01:07:51.889
It's like, I mean, you know this because you

01:07:51.889 --> 01:07:56.420
have kids. It's so grounding. It's at some basic

01:07:56.420 --> 01:07:59.000
level you have to function like a grown -up and

01:07:59.000 --> 01:08:01.760
when you have kids like even if it's just in

01:08:01.760 --> 01:08:06.679
a real basic level Yeah, you have to make concessions

01:08:06.679 --> 01:08:11.119
and But I think you you have a unique opportunity

01:08:11.119 --> 01:08:17.880
as as do any musicians artists performers You've

01:08:17.880 --> 01:08:20.159
got children children are naturally they want

01:08:20.159 --> 01:08:24.880
to look up to their parents You know kids still

01:08:25.020 --> 01:08:28.279
Unfortunately who have fathers who just disappear

01:08:28.279 --> 01:08:31.000
and never send them a birthday card or just you

01:08:31.000 --> 01:08:34.520
know They just go away kids still long for that

01:08:34.520 --> 01:08:37.520
parent. You know, they could be just the worst

01:08:37.520 --> 01:08:40.640
at that job at being a parent whether it's something

01:08:40.640 --> 01:08:44.020
that bad or you're just on your phone all day

01:08:44.020 --> 01:08:45.800
and not playing with your kid, you know, your

01:08:45.800 --> 01:08:48.979
kid still idolizes you and I try to check into

01:08:48.979 --> 01:08:52.939
this myself that Many many years from now when

01:08:52.939 --> 01:08:55.739
when we're gone just like we do with our parents,

01:08:56.739 --> 01:08:59.619
we're going to tell stories. Our kids will be

01:08:59.619 --> 01:09:02.260
in their 30s and their 40s and their 50s, and

01:09:02.260 --> 01:09:04.680
they'll be talking about, oh yeah, this was how

01:09:04.680 --> 01:09:07.939
my mom was. This is how my dad was. And you're

01:09:07.939 --> 01:09:10.300
kind of getting a chance to craft that story

01:09:10.300 --> 01:09:15.100
now. So I think some parents don't check into

01:09:15.100 --> 01:09:17.720
that as often as maybe they could. I don't want

01:09:17.720 --> 01:09:21.680
to preach to anybody. But yeah, they look up

01:09:21.680 --> 01:09:25.569
to you, whatever you do. uh whether you're an

01:09:25.569 --> 01:09:30.949
electrician or a musician or a lawyer they they

01:09:30.949 --> 01:09:32.949
look up to you and they will they will talk about

01:09:32.949 --> 01:09:36.810
you when you're long and gone i mean when you're

01:09:36.810 --> 01:09:41.789
uh long gone that's so true and i i always feel

01:09:41.789 --> 01:09:46.010
like there's a balance to be struck i mean i

01:09:46.010 --> 01:09:49.810
i guess all parents and maybe mothers in particular

01:09:49.810 --> 01:09:53.069
must feel like this but i certainly feel like

01:09:53.020 --> 01:09:59.239
so much of who I am as a person I don't think

01:09:59.239 --> 01:10:02.579
of as being very mom -like in a way. And in many

01:10:02.579 --> 01:10:04.840
ways, this is something that I address in my

01:10:04.840 --> 01:10:07.739
show, Makings of a Voice, that I was raised by

01:10:07.739 --> 01:10:09.819
a mom who in many ways was not very mom -like.

01:10:11.359 --> 01:10:15.079
It's one of the lines that people remember from

01:10:15.079 --> 01:10:17.859
my show, which is a thing I actually said to

01:10:17.859 --> 01:10:20.020
someone in real life one day. This was before

01:10:20.020 --> 01:10:21.880
I had kids and I was actually in Taiwan and I

01:10:21.880 --> 01:10:24.550
was at a bar. I was talking to this guy and I

01:10:24.550 --> 01:10:26.350
don't know how the topic came up but he asked

01:10:26.350 --> 01:10:28.789
me if I thought I would have kids one day and

01:10:28.789 --> 01:10:30.630
like the thing that just came out of my mouth

01:10:30.630 --> 01:10:32.909
without even thinking was no I don't think so

01:10:32.909 --> 01:10:34.909
because like I was raised by a long line of women

01:10:34.909 --> 01:10:37.329
who shouldn't had kids in the first place like

01:10:37.329 --> 01:10:41.270
you know like like that my mom and my grandma

01:10:41.270 --> 01:10:44.890
my my baba on my mom's side in so many ways like

01:10:44.890 --> 01:10:48.250
these are these are women who like like in so

01:10:48.250 --> 01:10:50.050
many ways, like weren't that well suited to being

01:10:50.050 --> 01:10:51.829
a mother. And like, I feel that about myself

01:10:51.829 --> 01:10:55.069
too. Like my life, you know, and what my kids

01:10:55.069 --> 01:10:57.229
see me do, the shape of my life, the kind of

01:10:57.229 --> 01:11:00.229
the lack of routine and regularity in it. I mean,

01:11:00.289 --> 01:11:03.630
you know, kids, kids really do need routine and

01:11:03.630 --> 01:11:05.289
rhythm. And it's like, my life does not have

01:11:05.289 --> 01:11:07.550
that. And like, there are all these ways that,

01:11:07.750 --> 01:11:11.649
that I feel like, oh, this is not, you know.

01:11:12.380 --> 01:11:16.439
this is not normal and like maybe it's not ideal,

01:11:16.640 --> 01:11:19.319
but then I also think, but you know, it's like,

01:11:20.119 --> 01:11:23.720
I also like me, you know, living my life in a

01:11:23.720 --> 01:11:26.560
way that's increasingly authentic to me and to

01:11:26.560 --> 01:11:31.300
them. And, you know, just like following, you

01:11:31.300 --> 01:11:33.420
know, whatever that is that we follow in our

01:11:33.420 --> 01:11:34.939
lives, learning the lessons we need to learn.

01:11:35.100 --> 01:11:38.279
It's like that my kids are part of that and they're,

01:11:38.500 --> 01:11:41.659
you know, and as you say, they're observing me.

01:11:41.880 --> 01:11:46.439
me do that and you know like there there's no

01:11:46.439 --> 01:11:48.380
scenario where I could where it would be the

01:11:48.380 --> 01:11:50.220
right choice for me to decide you know a good

01:11:50.220 --> 01:11:52.899
mom is like this and is around and doesn't work

01:11:52.899 --> 01:11:55.739
and doesn't go out and play gigs until two in

01:11:55.739 --> 01:11:57.520
the morning you know and and so I'm gonna do

01:11:57.520 --> 01:11:59.680
this it's like that wouldn't make me a better

01:11:59.680 --> 01:12:03.399
mother because the it's like the kind of classic

01:12:03.399 --> 01:12:06.760
maternal self -sacrifice it's inevitable but

01:12:06.760 --> 01:12:10.100
if you carry it too far it's I think it would

01:12:10.100 --> 01:12:13.750
be detriment, you know? Sure, I like what you

01:12:13.750 --> 01:12:18.890
said about just authenticity. Parents often don't

01:12:18.890 --> 01:12:21.090
have a lot of control over our schedules of what

01:12:21.090 --> 01:12:24.949
we're called on and different things pulling

01:12:24.949 --> 01:12:27.550
us in different directions. There's times where

01:12:27.550 --> 01:12:31.029
I'm taking my baby daughter to her caregiver

01:12:31.029 --> 01:12:34.069
in the morning and I'm walking from the car down

01:12:34.069 --> 01:12:38.850
the sidewalk to that front door. And I'm realizing,

01:12:39.050 --> 01:12:41.250
wow, this is about the only time that I'm going

01:12:41.250 --> 01:12:44.210
to get to hold her until the end of the day.

01:12:44.270 --> 01:12:45.949
But then when we all come home, it's going to

01:12:45.949 --> 01:12:50.569
be the boys and my baby girl, Vivian. I'm not

01:12:50.569 --> 01:12:52.529
going to get to just hold her exclusively. So

01:12:52.529 --> 01:12:56.949
this is like just a fleeting moment. And that

01:12:56.949 --> 01:12:59.409
dawns on me. But I just think, well, just trying

01:12:59.409 --> 01:13:06.309
to make the most of this time be authentic. Yeah,

01:13:06.309 --> 01:13:08.970
and yeah for me. It's like just trying to be

01:13:08.970 --> 01:13:11.409
present You know because you're not always there

01:13:11.409 --> 01:13:13.489
as you say, but it's like that's the thing I

01:13:13.489 --> 01:13:16.090
feel I have to keep working to get better at

01:13:16.090 --> 01:13:18.149
Well, well, I feel like we could explore this

01:13:18.149 --> 01:13:23.130
topic. Yeah another episode I always mention

01:13:23.130 --> 01:13:27.449
a second episode so this time next year or whenever

01:13:27.449 --> 01:13:30.949
I would love to Reconnect with you and talk about

01:13:30.949 --> 01:13:33.890
your current projects. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I would

01:13:33.890 --> 01:13:36.119
I would love to do that That would be so great.

01:13:36.539 --> 01:13:39.640
This has been fantastic. I usually try to pepper

01:13:39.640 --> 01:13:41.779
in a little lightning round of stuff of just

01:13:41.779 --> 01:13:44.720
some silly questions. Maybe one or two if you've

01:13:44.720 --> 01:13:48.680
got interest in something like that. Sure. How

01:13:48.680 --> 01:13:52.739
do you are you a breakfast person? I am a huge

01:13:52.739 --> 01:13:56.279
breakfast person where it's like feed me everything

01:13:56.279 --> 01:13:58.560
that I could possibly eat and I don't have time

01:13:58.560 --> 01:14:01.539
to do all that. But if I did, I would do the

01:14:01.539 --> 01:14:05.449
pancakes, the bacon, the eggs. The everything

01:14:05.449 --> 01:14:07.270
probably not every day. It's not very healthy.

01:14:07.270 --> 01:14:09.529
But are you the type of person when you wake

01:14:09.529 --> 01:14:12.810
up? Did you you want to you want to eat a big

01:14:12.810 --> 01:14:15.130
breakfast or you okay with just some coffee and

01:14:15.130 --> 01:14:19.430
let's get this thing going Well here I yeah,

01:14:19.430 --> 01:14:23.090
I love a big breakfast, but I want it about three

01:14:23.090 --> 01:14:27.029
hours after I get up I want to like I want to

01:14:27.029 --> 01:14:29.649
get up because I'm like I'm a nighttime person

01:14:29.649 --> 01:14:32.560
really naturally so like I want to get up in

01:14:32.560 --> 01:14:34.380
the morning and just have coffee and ideally

01:14:34.380 --> 01:14:37.439
sit around like and not I have I really struggle

01:14:37.439 --> 01:14:39.180
with the whole like, you know, the whole get

01:14:39.180 --> 01:14:40.840
up in the morning and like got to get the kids

01:14:40.840 --> 01:14:42.899
lunch ready and like make a million things happen

01:14:42.899 --> 01:14:44.859
right away. It's like that's that's hard for

01:14:44.859 --> 01:14:47.819
me. I ideally I would just like get up and like

01:14:47.819 --> 01:14:50.359
sit around with a cup of coffee for a while.

01:14:50.539 --> 01:14:52.119
And then like, yeah, once I've been up for a

01:14:52.119 --> 01:14:54.300
couple hours, then yeah, yeah, bacon and eggs

01:14:54.300 --> 01:15:00.180
and the whole bit. Yeah, I love love that. When

01:15:00.180 --> 01:15:02.600
you don't have a gig and you're and you don't

01:15:02.600 --> 01:15:05.640
have to be anywhere do anything What are you

01:15:05.640 --> 01:15:07.699
most inclined to do and there's no wrong answer?

01:15:07.819 --> 01:15:10.460
Do you like to watch a documentary? Do you like

01:15:10.460 --> 01:15:12.939
to are there series that you like to watch or

01:15:12.939 --> 01:15:16.479
movies or do you? Want to just open a book or

01:15:16.479 --> 01:15:20.140
do you ever just want to? sometimes I I'll look

01:15:20.140 --> 01:15:24.399
at park benches at times and I'll think wow,

01:15:24.420 --> 01:15:27.119
it's been a long time since I've just seen somebody

01:15:27.119 --> 01:15:32.189
or or been there myself sitting, just sitting

01:15:32.189 --> 01:15:36.109
and looking at my surroundings and not looking

01:15:36.109 --> 01:15:38.090
at my phone, not being occupied with anything

01:15:38.090 --> 01:15:42.569
else, just sitting. That's a bizarre twist on

01:15:42.569 --> 01:15:47.630
that question, but what do you like to do? Gosh,

01:15:47.750 --> 01:15:50.670
I don't watch things that often. Mostly I find

01:15:50.670 --> 01:15:54.149
that I don't have time. Maybe the downtime you're

01:15:54.149 --> 01:15:57.170
talking about just doesn't happen that often.

01:15:58.990 --> 01:16:03.430
I do, I mean, I do like to read too, but probably

01:16:03.430 --> 01:16:05.729
don't do it as much as I would like to because

01:16:05.729 --> 01:16:09.770
I feel my plate, like, as you say, I've filled

01:16:09.770 --> 01:16:13.569
up my plate quite a lot. So there's just like,

01:16:13.670 --> 01:16:15.789
usually if I, if I reach the end of a task and

01:16:15.789 --> 01:16:17.869
it's like close to the end of the day, it's,

01:16:18.010 --> 01:16:20.149
it's probably not good. How often, even if it's

01:16:20.149 --> 01:16:23.409
like 11 or 1130 at night, I'll, you know, in

01:16:23.409 --> 01:16:25.149
that window between that time and going to bed,

01:16:25.170 --> 01:16:28.130
I'll find some other little thing to get done,

01:16:28.250 --> 01:16:30.949
you know, like, so that's hard. But I really

01:16:30.949 --> 01:16:34.369
like going for walks. And I kind of I've gotten

01:16:34.369 --> 01:16:37.369
better at identifying more often moments where

01:16:37.369 --> 01:16:40.130
it's like, okay, like, I need to go, as you say,

01:16:40.170 --> 01:16:43.689
like, just not, not tackle anything, not take

01:16:43.689 --> 01:16:47.770
in any information, and just go be out and like,

01:16:47.880 --> 01:16:50.399
look at stuff and you know we have a pretty extensive

01:16:50.399 --> 01:16:53.300
river valley here in Edmonton with a lot of green

01:16:53.300 --> 01:16:56.079
space and it's quite forested and so to go be

01:16:56.079 --> 01:16:58.300
able to walk in the valley and just it smells

01:16:58.300 --> 01:17:00.840
different than the rest of the city and that

01:17:00.840 --> 01:17:03.060
for me is really valuable because for me like

01:17:03.060 --> 01:17:05.119
watching documentaries or reading books it's

01:17:05.119 --> 01:17:08.319
like it's just how I work like that's not even

01:17:08.319 --> 01:17:10.939
really downtime for me because I'm because I

01:17:10.939 --> 01:17:14.380
engage intensively with those things you know

01:17:14.380 --> 01:17:18.020
like you said uh wherever you live There's something

01:17:18.020 --> 01:17:21.640
outdoors that you can go explore even for 30

01:17:21.640 --> 01:17:25.739
minutes and That sensory engagement when you

01:17:25.739 --> 01:17:29.899
just go for a walk It's more than just oh, it's

01:17:29.899 --> 01:17:32.500
a sunny day. It's just you start noticing things

01:17:32.500 --> 01:17:34.560
you start smelling things that you're not expecting

01:17:34.560 --> 01:17:38.279
and Yeah, it gets you outside of yourself. I

01:17:38.279 --> 01:17:41.119
think that's a big part of it and a big benefit

01:17:41.119 --> 01:17:45.180
to it I I've just thoroughly enjoyed this conversation

01:17:45.180 --> 01:17:49.119
with you I hope you have as well I definitely

01:17:49.119 --> 01:17:51.619
have so much. Yeah, thank you and thanks for

01:17:51.619 --> 01:17:54.119
participating in the show. This is uh, the dan

01:17:54.119 --> 01:17:57.220
time podcast folks, but I probably don't say

01:17:57.220 --> 01:18:00.500
it enough it may appear That something like this

01:18:00.500 --> 01:18:04.359
is is about me and if it's not it's it's just

01:18:04.359 --> 01:18:08.460
a quirky way for me to present people who are

01:18:08.460 --> 01:18:13.770
Named dan or pretty close to it Why? I'm still

01:18:13.770 --> 01:18:15.489
trying to answer that question, but hey, look

01:18:15.489 --> 01:18:19.130
what we've created here. It's fun. I'm really

01:18:19.130 --> 01:18:21.329
trying to encourage people, like I said at the

01:18:21.329 --> 01:18:24.829
very beginning, to get outside your bubble, but

01:18:24.829 --> 01:18:28.229
also demonstrating through what I'm doing here

01:18:28.229 --> 01:18:31.369
that you can find a common thread with other

01:18:31.369 --> 01:18:34.789
people, and it might just be the letters in your

01:18:34.789 --> 01:18:38.829
name. But thanks for being here, Dana, and I

01:18:38.829 --> 01:18:42.069
wish you all the success here in the new year.

01:18:43.079 --> 01:18:47.020
with your projects going on. Real quick, I'll

01:18:47.020 --> 01:18:50.340
mention it in the show notes, but DanaWiley .net

01:18:50.340 --> 01:18:55.159
is the website, D -A -N -A -W -Y -L -I -E .net.

01:18:56.239 --> 01:18:59.300
Any other plugs that you'd like to put in for

01:18:59.300 --> 01:19:05.619
people? Well, my band has a website too, secondhanddreamcar

01:19:05.619 --> 01:19:09.479
.com, so I guess people can check that out too.

01:19:10.199 --> 01:19:13.640
Okay, and so just... I sometimes pump out all

01:19:13.640 --> 01:19:15.680
the other social channels, but really if you

01:19:15.680 --> 01:19:18.899
go to these websites You'll get to the other

01:19:18.899 --> 01:19:21.140
places that you want to go and you can find out

01:19:21.140 --> 01:19:25.100
the performance schedule on either end Okay.

01:19:25.319 --> 01:19:29.140
Well Thank you so much Dana and we'll reconnect

01:19:29.140 --> 01:19:33.920
Hopefully later this year remember folks if you're

01:19:33.920 --> 01:19:36.140
going through something right now, which which

01:19:36.140 --> 01:19:41.939
everybody is You've got people who Who are rooting

01:19:41.939 --> 01:19:44.699
for you to succeed to get through it to let it

01:19:44.699 --> 01:19:47.579
all out and they don't even know you and it's

01:19:47.579 --> 01:19:52.520
people like Dana Wiley so make sure you download

01:19:52.520 --> 01:19:55.960
or you can purchase an LP version of Her latest

01:19:55.960 --> 01:19:59.039
solo record how much muscle I cannot emphasize

01:19:59.039 --> 01:20:03.100
enough. Please Take a shot on this album and

01:20:03.100 --> 01:20:06.539
be on the lookout for new music from secondhand

01:20:06.539 --> 01:20:09.699
dream car you guys have a great rest of the week

01:20:09.699 --> 01:20:12.720
and We'll see you next Sunday on the Dan Time

01:20:12.720 --> 01:20:16.119
Podcast. Thanks so much, Dana. Oh, that was so

01:20:16.119 --> 01:20:16.800
much fun.