Welcome to the latest episode of the Dan Time
Podcast. I am your host, Dan McCardle. Thanks
for being here. Thanks for the buy -in. If you've
been listening for a while, you know that sometimes
it's Danny Time around here, sometimes Danielle,
Daniella, Daniel, any number of the family of
names as I call it. And then, as you saw last
week, I took you on a detour with Sean Perry.
No Dan story, no connection, and no real explanation
from me there. But hey, we all need a break from
time to time. This show is no exception. I think
what I described a few months ago as Dan fatigue.
It's a real thing. And I always got to be careful
not to wear it out. OK, some great episodes over
the past few weeks. I certainly hoped it. You've
enjoyed them, learned something, felt something,
felt like maybe your passions or yearnings or
even your struggles were represented. Well, today
the time is right. Perhaps it has taken me too
long, but I'm presenting to you the first Dana
on this podcast. It is such an honor to introduce
to you a pros pro singer songwriter musician.
and a veteran live performer who has lived and
made music in Canada, Taiwan, the UK, and won
over audiences and gained the respect of her
peers. If her music is not already in your catalog,
you're going to wish you'd been on to these songs,
these records years ago. But it's never too late
to catch up as I found out. Dana Wiley is my
guest today. She's been performing over three
decades. She sings, plays piano, guitar, multiple
instruments, writes, records, and is a self -described
lifelong student of musical histories and cultures.
This from her website, Dana's crystal clear voice
will cut straight through to your heart, and
just to make it a fair deal, her songs will give
you a direct route to hers. Now, I discovered
that right away and quickly found my own favorite
songs on her last two solo records. Dana and
I explore her critically acclaimed 2023 solo
record, How Much Muscle, also the back catalog,
her travels, education, and her upcoming performances
in the theatrical production, Leonard and Joni,
The Untold Love Story, which is appearing in
Edmonton, Calgary, and Saskatoon if you're in
those areas this spring. The Earth That You're
Made Of earned Dana a Canadian Folk Music Award
nomination for Contemporary Singer of the Year.
The Edmonton Journal raved about how much muscle.
Describing it as packed with soul and musicianship,
it was included in its Fresh Tracks, a year -end
must -listen list of albums from Edmonton artists.
The Journal also points out that the album was
recorded almost entirely live off the floor.
Dana is also a part of an Edmonton supergroup,
Secondhand Dreamcar, which journalist and programmer
Peter North has described as the most exciting
act to come out of Edmonton since Katie Lang
and the Reclines. Secondhand Dreamcar has just
finished recording their debut LP, Answer the
Call, which is expected for release in September.
In addition to writing, recording, performing,
Dana also offers standard piano, voice, and guitar
lessons, and she's helped professional musicians
write and learn harmony vocals prior to touring
or recording. Lessons are offered in person in
Edmonton or via Zoom. So wherever you are around
the world, please reach out to Dana if you're
an aspiring musician or vocalist at Dana at DanaWiley
.net for more info. Please also read the testimonials
from the students that she's taught. All right,
how about we get to the conversation? But first,
here's a preview of the title track from How
Much Muscle. You can download this song, this
album, and Dana's previous efforts wherever you
download music. And also order the LP or CD version
on her website at DanaWiley .net. and be sure
to visit secondhanddreamcar .com. Folks, it is
Dana Wiley time. First time. Edmonton, Alberta,
Canada's very own Dana Wiley. Thank you so much,
Dana, for being here. How are you doing today?
I'm doing just great. I love this idea. I'm so
happy to be here. I have so enjoyed really just
scratching the surface on your music. Wow, the
most recent album, which I really want to put
front and center here, and I know there's other
projects going on that we'll get to, but how
much muscle released in 2023 is, folks, if you've
never listened to Dana Wiley before, I would
jump in at the new album, start there and work
your way back. Probably, you know, that's what
I did. I have so many questions about this record,
Dana. First of all, the acclaim that it has garnered,
I always like to mention to people that I don't
just bring any old Dan, or in this case, any
old Dana on the show. I really want to bring
some key players and people that are making a
big impact and are excellent at their craft.
I guess my first question, Dana, this album...
It feels like it's a long time coming. It's a
full package, some excellent players. How proud
of it are you now that you've got a few months
and it's been out there? I am. I am proud of
it. I'm still happy with it. It's always a nice
treat when you can go back and listen to a record
you made some time ago and it still sounds good
to you. The songs still represent how you...
how you feel and how you see the world and that
this, you know, it still sounds good and it doesn't
make you cringe horrifically. That's always a
good sign. And this one we actually recorded
in the summer of 2020. I had gotten a grant.
We're lucky up here in Canada to have some public
funding for the arts and for making recording
projects in particular. And so we got a grant
and then COVID hit. And so we found a way in
the summer of 2020 to make this record. But then,
you know, the world was all crazy and life was
not what it usually is and so I didn't end up
putting it out until just early last year but
I actually made it quite some time ago it feels
it feels like almost like a previous era of my
life in some ways but um but I was really proud
that and I was happy that despite the situation
in COVID it's a long story how we were able to
do it mostly the way we wanted to but the idea
with it was to make it completely live off the
floor record which is not a standard way to make
studio albums, but we really wanted to just get
the band in a room together and just like lay
down these tunes, because as you mentioned, the
players on it are all fantastic. And so we weren't,
because of COVID -oriented situations, we weren't
able to do it entirely live off the floor, but
it's largely that, just with some sprinklings
of overdubs. And I'm really glad to have been
able to do that. And I'm proud of that aspect
of it for sure, because that's... That's what
I love when an album can capture the kind of
live energy that a band has that's Those are
my favorite recordings. So I was really happy
to be able to do that Yeah, I think I was mentioning
to you and I don't know if this is just a coincidence
But there's such great playing such a variety.
It's such a layered album in every track. I think
The opening note on each track. It might be the
bass guitar. It might be the saxophone It might
be the keys. It might be the vocals. Did you
notice that? I don't know that that was a deliberate
choice. No, that's an interesting observation
for you to make. That's cool. Yeah, I really
liked it. And again, I haven't had a lot of time
to go back to the prior albums, but I have seen
on the other records that you take an interest
in other people and maybe putting a message out
there that they can grab hold of and run with
maybe in some of their dark times. And I see
how you continue that on this album with the
songs Cry Out and Break, Blow, Burn, specifically
speaking to mothers and women who just carry
so much on their shoulders. They're often working
moms. They're trying to keep it all together.
I was thinking about this today. I'm a dad and
men who are involved. Good for us, good for them.
But you know women often get judged more If they
don't look like they're keeping it together if
they if they want to show up in public not dressed
very well men can just walk around like slobs
and still be treated respectfully in some cases
in some places and women just it's like nobody
like you say in the song nobody notices and break
blow burn until she just Finally crumbles until
she finally blows her top It gets angry and everyone's
like, what's her problem? It's like, well, she's
taking on a lot over here. And these kids, these,
I mean, I've got three kids and as a dad, they
could put you to the brink of insanity sometimes,
but it's, your humor comes out in these songs.
And I just like that you're, I can imagine your
female listeners saying, thank you. Thanks for
somebody sticking up for me here. Yeah, I have
gotten that response to that song in particular.
And yeah, you got it exactly. That's how I tend
to introduce that song at shows, is to say that
something that I noticed, particularly when I
was pregnant with my second child and when he
was... really young too because I have another
you know that was something that that was really
getting to me the fact that you know it's like
I'm just working so hard to just barely hold
everything together here and like that's not
noticeable at all it's only when like I start
dropping the balls and you know and like you
know losing it a little bit you know it's like
once when you just find that you're like crying
in the grocery store at a frustration because
like your kid won't stop having a tantrum or
whatever you know it's like like then that's
extremely noticeable when you're not holding
it together you know and you are it's it's not
really noticeable at all and you know that kind
of became a wider metaphor in the song too that
you know with certain other themes that i've
explored as part of my graduate studies that
the earth being the big metaphor for the mother
of us all, the thing that carries us all, that
we tend to look at the earth like it's a kind
of a platform or a canvas on which we make things
happen in a very masculine kind of a way, like
this is the surface on which we build stuff.
But to look at the earth more like something
that is known, that it's a... Mesh work of life
processes that we are a part of and that and
that you know Nurtures us all and allows us to
do our nurturing and it's alive, you know That
kind of became a wider metaphor in the song.
I Love a lot of the lyrics here again with cry
out. I wrote some of these down. The stars have
already heard your cries Even if someone's not
paying attention to you. The stars are listening.
That's I think that's just a really sweet message
Holder of words, servant of peace, let yourself
cry out, because you're justified, you are beautiful,
you can fall apart, I don't mind. Men even, and
I've spoken to this on a previous episode, who
hasn't been traveling somewhere, when you're
in your vehicle and you're the only one there,
I can assure you a lot of men have let some tears
fall out when no one's paying attention. And
I feel like this song, if someone was driving
down the road listening to cry out, they could
just take you up on that. I hope so. I write
all my songs to someone. I don't know. That's
just a proclivity I have as a writer. My instinct
is always to write to somebody. That's what makes
me want to write when I want to say something
to a particular person. That's what drives me.
That song was very much written for one person,
a friend of mine who's just an amazing, one of
those people that does hold it all together.
She's a registered nurse, a brilliant one, and
has four kids, and is also a beautiful poet and
a songwriter, and I think really prides herself
on being able to hold difficult. things and you
know she she's actually a palliative care nurse
so she you know she helps people over the big
threshold and you know she and she does it with
so much grace and she was going through a particularly
hard period in her life where she wasn't so able
to hold it together she was really really struggling
with some pretty deep things and and that really
bothered her because she really she really saw
herself as someone who who helps other people
you know That's her that's her whole life. And
so that was very much to her and to say this,
you know, this is okay I see you going through
this. It is okay. It's beautiful. It's part of
your process and like, you know, you can you
know, just wanting to give her permission to
to have a hard time, you know, because Everybody
does that's right with that being said this album
I think really captures you and probably what
you like to do in a live setting in front of
an audience. It has a very live sound. You achieve
that. And it sounds like the players that you
have around you. Let me mention the names. Daniel
Akira, Stead Nicky on drums, Keith Rempel on
bass, Brennan Cameron on the keys. You've got
the horn section on this album, which is... I
think it makes some of these tracks very memorable.
Speaking of Break, Blow, Burn, I mean, once you
get that... You know, you get that in your mind.
I want to keep going back to that song. It's
a really good hook. Oh, cool. And so Audrey Ochoa,
trombone, saxophonist Dave Babcock, Bob Tildesley
on trumpet. That's right. Yeah. And then produced
by Harry Gregg, who I don't want to jump too
far ahead, but you do have a side... Project
kind of a super group from the local area secondhand
dream car where Harry plays bass Yeah, yeah,
we do a lot of things But it just sounds like
you're having a really good time with these players
It's a real it's some tracks real bouncy feel
real lively flavorful I had this word I don't
even know if I was I was driving so I couldn't
kind of check myself But it's just a some of
these songs are really delectable It's a very
rich medley of these different instruments coming
together. Did you know, like going back to the
previous record, The Earth That You're Made Of,
did you think at that time about experimenting
with the horn section or was it, how did it come
together to, let's do it on this album? Earth
That You're Made Of did have three piece horn
section on a few songs and it was the same players
it was Dave and Bob and Audrey. Dave and Bob
and Audrey are like the go -to horn section.
I mean, they all have reputations far beyond
Edmonton. Audrey actually toured for a year with
the, she did the US national tour of Hadestown
for, you know, even though she also teaches at
a Catholic school, you know, when she took it,
she took a year off from teaching at a Catholic
school to go and do the US national tour of Hadestown.
Like she's, she's, you know, they all have huge
reputations and are just so good. And so for
I can't remember the reason that with Earth That
You're Made Of, which I made in 2016, I can't
remember why it seemed apt in that album to have
horns on a few things. I had never done that
before, but we did. And I, you know, I got enough
funding to be able to do it. And so that was
such a good experience. And I think when getting
that band together to perform those songs from
Earth That You're Made Of in a live context,
that kind of became my band. It was like, well,
why would you... If you can do it like this,
why would you not, you know, and so so then so
very much how much muscle even though, you know
thematically it's it goes to a different place
than Then earth that you're made of and sonically
in many ways to it. It very much came out of
that You know that that band was formed quite
organically from what you know how things went
with that that previous album and Now that feels
like my band, you know Yeah, and your your vocals.
I haven't even spoken about your vocals yet,
but Folks, if you listen to any of these tracks,
it's going to jump out at you that this is a
seasoned musician. It just has a natural gift,
but you do a lot with your vocal range and some
songwriters with your talent may not introduce
all these other players into the mix. You know,
and I think it's great that your vocals are strong
enough, but you still invite these other layers
into the songs. Well, that's the joy of it. for
me, you know, like I love being delighted by
what other people bring to it, whether that's
just like a little lick that just makes you go,
oh, that was so tasty or whether it's like a
whole, like, you know, if a band member brings
a real creative contribution to a song that takes
it in a direction that I couldn't have anticipated,
you know, that's what it's all about. You know,
when I do get other players to play in my record,
it's never about, this is my vision and this
is how we want the song to be and just play this
part and make, you know, make my vision come
alive. It's like, I want the people that I'm
lucky enough to work with have so much to quote
unquote say as artists and as musicians. And
that's what brings me joy. And that's what makes,
particularly in my last two records, that's what
makes them what they are. Particularly maybe
my rhythm section, Dan and Keith. There's another
down You know they what they bring to the songs,
you know as instrumentalists it becomes like
a key part of what makes the songs What they
are, you know, the creative contribution is immense
I'm glad you mentioned that because I think music
fans maybe have a tendency to think that if the
album cover on every record says Dana Wiley that
Dana is kind of the driving force and like you
said she's saying okay I want you to play this
this bass line I want you to play this guitar
solo that I wrote and maybe people assume that
and there are some high profile musicians from
major bands that kind of jump off and do a solo
record and I'm sure that does go on in those
cases but I love what you said there that you're
you're there to collaborate and everyone is welcome
to bring something to the table Yeah, that's
just how I like to that's what brings me joy
like I said, you know Like do you ever hear a
drum roll and you say hey, wait a second. That's
great. Let's let's That's fantastic. I want to
keep that in the song. Oh Yeah, and I mean that
that's a collaborative process too That's something
that I might point out or that Harry the producer
might point out and or you know We might disagree
and then we have some nice fun healthy arguments
about which you know because every take is going
to come out a little bit differently because
everyone's just in the moment it's like it's
always a subjective thing which one is stronger
and that's that's a healthy part of the process
too which is also part part of what makes it
fun for me well one more track that i love on
the record it's the penultimate song reconcile
it just the the back half of it just rolls into
something beautiful as your your vocal line is
trailing off reconcile uh the horn section Gramps
the relay and it's just it's wonderful folks
if download the whole album But maybe jump ahead
to that track and do you have a particular song
on the album? And I want to get your thoughts
on reconciled too, but is there one that you
like the most personally? Um Yeah, that's a tricky
question, but I'll say about reconciled. I actually
didn't write that one My friend who I was just
talking about who I wrote cry out for she wrote
that song And I was really happy that she was
okay with me bringing it to life for this album
because she's, you know, I said like she's a
nurse by trade. She hasn't done any recording
at least so far. She doesn't make music professionally
but I just thought that was such a beautiful
and profound song that so she allowed me to just
kind of take it and we took it in quite a different
direction than you know her original. how she
would do it and which was fun and and I believe
Dave Babcock was the one who came up with the
horn arrangement for that one and it's so it
works so well he pointed out to me later that
it's like it's like a classic like Herb Alpert
kind of a horn line which you wouldn't think
would be appropriate for that song and I was
like that's so true and yet somehow it works
and and yeah I really feel like it makes that
track in so many ways it's so it's so great.
And then the album closes with Just a I called
it sparkling cover of the Shirelles. Will you
still love me tomorrow? This is jumping outside
the box a little bit Maybe is that a song that
you've loved for a long time. Is that how did
that? Yeah Come to be yeah It's a song that I
like like if I think back to when I was a kid
like my first Realizations that music was a really
exciting thing for me It was hearing that song
and you know, there's a kind of geeky musical
reason for that that I that I can explain now.
You know, at the time when I was a kid, I was
just like, oh, something, there's something so
exciting about how that song works. Like there's
this sparkly thing that happens in it, in which
I now... have the you know knowledge to describe
is like it's where there's a major three chord
that goes to the six minor chord which is not
it's a fairly standard move but it's a great
move and and it just like when i was eight years
old like it really fired me up and i've always
loved that song and more than 10 years ago i
for whatever reason i don't remember i i came
up with my own cover of it just on my you know
messing around on the acoustic guitar and uh
having lived with that cover for 10 years or
so i just thought you know i think just just
get it down on this record, you know? 10 years
seems like a long time to sit with one song,
and yet I've found that now that I've been doing
this for long enough, it actually, you know,
it's after you've been doing a song, whether
it's a cover song or like I do some traditional
folk songs as well, you know, a song that you
didn't write, you know, to get it in you, like
it's really after about 10 years that you really
feel like, okay, this is really, this is really
in me now, and I have interwoven with it to an
extent that It's its own thing my version of
it is its own thing. And and so yeah, I just
wanted to Put it on the record and and thought
Audrey would write a beautiful horn arrangement
for that too. And she she did Well before we
get too much further ahead, I probably should
jump way back to When all this started when your
career as a singer -songwriter began kind of
in an unconventional way or maybe You wouldn't
have seen it going in this direction, but a few
events happened. So I guess 20 or so years ago
early 2000s you were Born in Saskatchewan and
then you moved to Edmonton to attend theater
school at McEwen Yep, and then maybe being out
with some theater friends who also performed
you kind of saw some of your friends playing
on stage and thought wait a second I Wanted I
can do that. I want to do that and it kind of
got that It scratched that itch or brought those
feelings to the surface and you decided to make
a play for it. Were you already maybe filling
out notebooks with poetry or lyrics or things
like that at that point? No, not really. It's
an interesting thing. I always felt like I was
a music person first before I was a theater person.
When I went to study theater, it was... as a
musical theater person because I always thought
I was a singer first. And I didn't have a lot
of opportunity as a kid to do drama because I
grew up in a small town where that kind of stuff
just didn't exist. So I was always a singer and
I always loved like old standards and American
songbook stuff. But I didn't, my experience growing
up in my small town in Saskatchewan was that
I didn't ever experience anyone having a band.
or like playing rock music or pop music or folk
music, it was, you know, I took piano lessons
and all of the experiences I had of people actually
making music were always in these very kind of
institutionalized kinds of ways. I would, you
know, I took piano and I would compete in festivals
and take exams and do, you know, go through the
grades in piano. And until I had moved to Edmonton,
I never experienced anyone like just having a
band. or even getting to go out to live shows
and see bands play. So it just wasn't the idea
of kind of writing songs in the kind of folk
or rock realm, whatever that is. It just kind
of wasn't in my world. And so it was a kind of
very strange and... revelatory experience to
go and like as you said you've really done some
deep research here like I did I went to a cafe
where two of my fellow theater students were
playing because they wrote folky songs and played
guitar and and I just I watched them playing
their songs and I just I just thought I I know
I can do that and I have to do that and I had
never it had never occurred to me before like
so but then it just like it wouldn't let me go
and it was so hard like it was such an arduous
process like first of all learning to play piano
when I didn't have music in front of me because
that was the only way I had learned how to do
it, but then also just writing. I didn't know
how to write songs and it probably took me eight
or nine months to write my first song. My memory
of it now is that it was so painful and like
not comfortable. But it was just like, I have
to do this. I got to figure this out. Because
this is so important. This is who I am. It was
very surprising. And it totally changed the direction
of my life. Because then I was like, OK, I don't
think I'm actually going to pursue a life trying
to get jobs in theater. I think I want to be
a musician. And then as I met more musicians
too around Edmonton, you know, starting to go
out and try to play open stages with my songs,
then I sort of realized, too, that, oh, I think
musicians, as I got to know some, it's like these
are actually my people, you know, my tribe, you
know, more than more than actors who are who
are very different from musicians in lots of
ways, you know. So within a couple of years,
I'll ask you, you know, how the opportunity presented
itself to. To move to Taiwan and continue this
exploration. This would have been around maybe
05 or so. Take me through that period of time.
It's so funny because when you look back on your
life from... than now looking back on like the
last 20 or 25 years is it's like it always makes
some kind of this is my experience anyway it
like makes cohesive sense it's like oh I had
to do this because because then that was what
enabled this and it all kind of comes together
like a story that leads up to a certain point
but at the time that I moved to Taiwan that was
like just the most baffling thing I could have
done you know like and I didn't know why exactly
and it was it was one of those things where everyone
in my life was telling me that it was the worst
idea ever, because I just self -produced a one
-person show at Edmonton's Fringe Festival, which
is actually the world's second biggest Fringe
Festival. It's a big thing we have here. And
so I had produced and performed this one -person
show that had gone... pretty well. And it seemed
like, you know, as someone in my early 20s, that
I was probably planting some good seeds to have
a good career in theater. And, and, and, you
know, I was going around open stages and playing
and, but I, but I don't know, it was just like,
my boyfriend at the time had taught English in
Taiwan previously, and, you know, obviously was
living back in Edmonton. And I know he kind of
wanted to go back, I just had this feeling like,
I got to get out of here. I don't know. Like,
I don't know what it was. And the prospect of
going to Taiwan, that was just the possibility
that was there. But I didn't have any feelings
like I should go to this place. I didn't know
anything about it. And, you know, I had some
trepidation about it because I didn't know...
First of all, I didn't know if I wanted to spend
loads of time teaching English, which was what
you do over there as a foreigner. But I knew
I wanted to save some money, and I wanted to
have time to just practice and write. But the
thought of going to Asia was scary. I had never
been there before. I thought, how am I going
to do anything? I don't speak the language. But
I don't know. It had to happen somehow. And as
it turned out, that particular place, Taiwan,
was just like the perfect place to be as someone
who had just decided okay music is the thing
I want to focus on so because I needed to play
I needed to get better at at playing and and
I needed to have time to write and Taiwan is
a place where first of all there's a thriving
expat scene of of artistic people because at
least the time that I was there 20 years ago
everything that you could do there as a white
person, essentially, it usually in the English
instructional market in some capacity, everything
paid really well. And so I knew a lot of people
who had been living in Taiwan for years and worked
10 to 15 hours a week and made enough money to
survive and therefore had lots of time to do
the art they wanted to do, you know. And so filmmakers
and musicians and writers and so going there
it's like I right away had an opportunity to
play in all kinds of bands and play all kinds
of different kinds of music where like you know
the bar wasn't that high and so there was room
for me to just kind of not be that good, but
still have an opportunity to do it. And so I
was getting better, and I had time to write.
And yeah, so there were just all these aspects
of Taiwan as a particular place to go that made
it the perfect place to be. And it just happens
to be a wonderful country, too, that I still
have such fondness and a real deep love and respect
for. It's just a great place. And then within
a couple of years, you moved to England. And
that's when you form your first band, first group
of musicians. And as I understand it, you just
begin this almost frenetic writing, recording,
touring cycle. Is it kind of a blur looking back
at those years? Those first three records, which
almost there is the debut, December of 06. And
then the unruly ones kind of every couple years,
and then something's going to happen here. Yeah,
when you look back at that time period, I look
back at my early to mid 20s. There's some fun,
some mistakes, and it's kind of a blur. Yeah,
in many ways it is a blur. And also just so formative.
They don't really tell you that. Really, through
your 20s, you're not really a grown. figure it
out person. Yeah, you know, you're just like,
as you say, you're just going around having lots
of adventures and getting into scrapes and getting
yourself out of them and making lots of mistakes.
And it's you know, those those are, you know,
I don't think of my formative years in terms
of who who I feel I am now and am still becoming
like, I think of that as my 20s, not my teenage
years or my childhood, you know, and, and again,
being in England. The reason I ended up there
was because I had met an Englishman in Taiwan
and we had gotten together and moved to England
together. So it wasn't a place that I ever thought
I would go to. But there were particularities
about that place too that were key to the way
in which that was a formative period for me.
And yeah, with the band, yeah, we were just...
I had saved up some money in Taiwan and so we
were able to just focus on our music and... Neither
of us had day jobs and so we just it was a real
grassroots operation We were just in this was
2005 as well So it was pre social media Facebook
didn't exist yet MySpace was like this new thing
that it was like you got to be on MySpace, but
it was Still new and so we were just like looking
up pubs all around the Midlands in England, which
is where we lived, and just saying, hey, we have
our own PA system, would you hire us on a Saturday?
How much will you pay us to come and set up in
the corner and play a few sets? That's how we
did it. We were just on the phone all the time
and driving around and playing as much as we
could. And then, yeah, eventually making records.
And yeah, it is kind of a blur. And it all just
kind of went and went and went. Until it fell
apart And then it fell apart, you know as as
things do you know Yeah, you um again in that
time period for a lot of people you don't know
yet like you know now that you're not really
well, I don't want to say you're not old enough
to You think you're more experienced than you
are when you're 23 or 25 or if you kind of realize
that you're not you still try to Swim with the
current. I don't know But wow, I mean, yeah,
you created some wonderful music and the time
period is is kind of crystallized I guess you'd
say I mean for good or for bad I mean, I understand
it wasn't all great memories at that that group
of musicians and what you had going on there
didn't maybe end that well, but the music remains
and I am happy for that. You know, I I feel like
I don't know that this is true for all artists,
but those first albums that I made with the band
in England, we made two of them over here, actually,
but it was all that band. Musically, it's so
different from what I'm doing now. It really
is an archive of that's where we were at. And
because those were independent records, it's
like we had no one who was more professional
or more like representing the industry or like
labels and things like that, you know, making
us sound more polished. And like, it's what we
were at that time. And so that that whole back
catalog, it really does exist as an archive and
like, which is an interesting thing to consider.
I'm so happy for that. And yet also, if I think
about the fact that like, like, I don't want
to listen to those records. And if I think about
anybody else listening to them, it kind of makes
me cringe because I'm like, oh, God, like, oh,
the The musicianship is so raw. My singing voice
sounds so young. The way I was writing, it just
totally betrays what a young, clueless person
I was. But I'm also glad for that. That's real.
It's like an archive. I think one thing that
remains, because I listened to a few tracks on
the early records, but your humor, a lot of tongue
in cheek references. It's just it's painted all
over those songs and I love that you're not afraid
to jump out there and just Write something sing
something that another artist might say. I don't
know if I want to make that statement I mean,
there's well, I won't I won't bring up any of
the old lyrics but You do I think I think you're
endearing to your listeners people that have
followed you for a long time I'm sure they do
love the humor in some of the songs because it
is a welcome relief. You don't you don't want
to listen to. It's great if there's uplifting
messages and like we were talking about at the
top of the episode. But sometimes you need a
little bit of a little bit of a snicker in some
of these topics. Yeah, yeah, that was always
strong for me back, you know, particularly back
in those days. And I and I came from theater
and you know, I was really immersed in in. musical
theater for a good few years there and it's funny
it's not my favorite stuff I don't it's totally
out of my realm of experience right now but but
at the time like I came out of that and so in
terms of like you know approach to lyrics and
approaches to song forms too like that's the
world that that's was my knowledge base and and
you know musical theater writing is a bit more
like that it's it's more specific and it's it's
the lyrics in it are are meant to kind of grab
your attention you know in a way where it may
be more like folk or something like that it's
meant to meant to be more like generally evocative
and like you know it's not necessarily a good
thing to have lyrics that are really grabbing
you in a in a idiosyncratic way you know but
that's that's what i'd say if i was gonna you
know assess myself as an artist and as a songwriter
as a young person from this vantage point, I'd
say that that was my strength. I think I was
quite bold in that way. I was not afraid to put
out songs that were kind of weird and quirky
and funny in ways that the music industry, even
the folk music industry, is not going to legitimize
probably and didn't. There are other assessments
I can make of aspects where I had a lot to learn.
But I'd say that that's what I had going for
me back in those days. I was, for some reason,
kind of unafraid to just kind of throw stuff
to the wall like that. And that was part of the
environment, too, the people I had around me.
And being in England was part of that, too, part
of what enabled that, I think. By 2010, you're
back in Edmonton. And it's kind of a period where
you're thinking, what should I do now? Which
way do I want to turn? What makes sense? It seems
like you wanted to continue to hone your craft,
but really get an understanding. You had maybe
always had an interest in music theory and just
going back to school for this sort of thing to
continue your career. So you apply at the University
of Alberta and then several years later earn
your BA music honors degree. Yeah. I can imagine
you continuing to write and record, but just
we probably don't get The new album how much
muscle in its same inception without this period
of your background Yeah, how proud are you of
that experience and what it's done for your career?
Um Gosh, that's a sort of a hard question to
answer I think going to university at that time
was kind of one of those things that I can make
sense of in hindsight But like truly in that
moment the thing that motivated me to enroll
in university was was like sheer panic and like
not knowing what to do because like the thing
that had become my whole world was like had had
fallen apart and like looking back now like I
was in a right state like I was not not in a
good place you know but and for whatever reason
and well for I think for a variety of reasons
that I you know that I could probably try to
make sense of the way I responded to that total
existential crisis was to to go to university.
And part of the appeal of that was just the structure.
It's like, I knew I needed, I needed something
that was going to tell me just where I needed
to go every day and what I needed to do, you
know, like that, that was that. And it was, it
felt like a luxury to be there, to be doing an
undergraduate degree in your early thirties is
actually a beautiful thing. Like I might argue
it's the best time to go. You're so grateful
to be there. You're never just like, oh, is it
going to be on the exam? How much do I have to
bear minimum I have to learn? You're just like,
wow, all I have to do is learn all day? This
is, wow, how lucky am I? So it really wasn't.
I mean, I guess I did at the time see it as a
part of a master plan. But at the time, what
I thought that master plan was that I was like,
I'm going to go all the way. I'm going to. you
know, even though I'm just starting my undergraduate
degree, I'm going to go all the way, I'm going
to get a PhD. And now I'm going to be a music
academic because like, because if I can drop
one f -bomb, like, because like the music industry
and like, I can't hack this. So I'm going to
be an academic. That's my, you know, that's the
thing I'm now clinging to. But I also I loved
being in school. It was such a privilege and
and like a luxury in so many ways. And so, yeah,
I got my undergrad degree and then went into
the master's program. But really, you know, never
stopped playing at that time, even made another
album that you may not have even found like at
that time, because it's not really out there.
Or maybe you did. I don't know. You did a deep
dive. But I saw that that one fell away a little
bit. But it but it did get made while I was in
school. But by the time I was, you know, almost
all the way through my master's program, I I
had realized by that point, it's like, no, I
really don't want to be an academic. First of
all, I had discovered that academia is at least
as much a racket as the music industry is. It
truly is. And after about six years of being
in university and also having had one child at
that point, and I didn't have the second one
yet, but I was like, I got to play. I got to
get back to playing. So for various reasons,
I dropped out of my master's program. I'm now
back in it. just finishing up the first draft
of my thesis, just to get the thesis done. You
know, I'm not, I don't plan to participate in
academia, but I'm just, I just want to put a
cap on this project. So yeah, it was like, as
I look at it now, it's like, the university was
like a very, very valuable and wonderful place
to be at a time in my life where I just needed
something to hold me. like dissolving into you
know thin air because like everything was just
you know life as I had envisioned it was like
clearly not happening you know like I think you
know everyone has these points in their life
where it's just like you had a plan and you were
just like throwing everything at that plan and
then it just somehow it doesn't become sustainable
or it doesn't pan out and it just like it makes
you feel like you are gonna just like go swirly
into the heart of the sun or something, you know,
it just feels really big. I don't know how to,
you know. Yeah. You just feel like you're, you're
wandering and adrift and maybe you just, like
you said, wanted to plug in some structure and
say, okay, I got to fill out my days a little
bit more, get them a little more organized. I
need to go to bed at a certain time. Maybe that
would be good for me. Maybe I need to be told
that I need to be somewhere at this time. Yeah,
yeah, I remember a transitional period that was
kind of funny for my first semester of university
I remember doing most of my homework in bars
like drinking pints because like that was the
environment I was used to being in and it was
like it would have been too much of a culture
shock To just go straight to like sitting in
the library all day So I would I would go to
the bar and like get a pint and like read do
my reading Yeah Well by 2017 The Earth That You're
Made Of record, you're finally getting some recognition.
People are starting to pay attention, and this
record earns you a nomination for Contemporary
Singer of the Year with the Canadian Folk Music
Awards. That must have been a big moment just
to finally say, all right, all right, I've got
this body of work here, and I'm proud of this
new release, and I'm actually getting up to the
top of the heap here after all these years. Yeah,
I mean it did feel like that. I mean, it's it's
funny things like awards like that are When you
do get a nomination for an award or something
like that It's it's a wonderful thing and it's
you know, you you feel grateful for it and it
serves a purpose but you know, it's like looking
back it's like Those are never the things that
are like that can make you feel like just proud
of the merit of the work because there's so many
factors that go into who gets nominated for awards
versus who doesn't that that have to do with
how you're playing the game, you know, and not
necessarily the merit. But but that, you know,
that was definitely part of it. There was, you
know, the general kind of environment at the
time and how I was feeling. That was really it
was really making that record where I felt for
the first time like I feel confident that I do
what I do well. And, you know, when you're younger,
it's like you know I dedicated my whole life
through my 20s to music making and making all
these records and stuff but really there was
like this huge part of me the whole time just
feeling like I'm a total imposter you know it's
like this is a classic thing imposter syndrome
and it's like I think it was when I made Earth
That You're Made Of where I really felt like
no I think I feel confident that I know how to
do this and that I do it well and so that did
feel like a turning point in that way and yeah
you know getting that award nomination was was
super cool like that was very cool and you know
a rare thing for me dana my favorite track on
the earth that you're made of is sliver of a
moon oh i meant to ask on the new record i'm
always curious how many of these songs survive
into the next touring cycle do you perform that
one much or are you do you like that song sliver
of a moon yeah that sounds like No, but no that's
it's interesting that you would ask that about
that particular song because no I do like it
very much and I almost never play it I have a
few songs like that that I really that that people
respond to well and on the albums and things
like that, but that just don't always feel appropriate
to bring out in certain concert context for whatever
reason and often that's just because I'm playing
in places where you know, I mean less and less
over time, but like I've spent a lot of my life
playing in places where you might be competing
for attention with, you might be playing in a
bar or something where like the hockey game's
on. So when I do do that song live, I'll pull
it out in a context where I'm playing at a festival
or in a soft seat theater or something like that.
But also it's something that that song in particular,
the string quartet on that is like such a big
part of what it is that it's interesting that
you would have that thought because I don't play
it live that much. Yeah, that song and a few
others, I think you had this quality about your
singing style, your delivery. It feels like it
would be appropriate even decades ago. If you
go way back to maybe the kind of early, mid -part
of the 20th century, this is like just a throwback,
very welcoming sound, I think. It's just you
don't hear that delivery. that message, I mean,
the sliver of a moon. I'm just imagining how
the lyrics came to you if you're wandering around
one night and observing the moon and that one
particularly had an impact with me. Oh, thank
you. It's funny, I hadn't thought about it as
being kind of, you know, a throwback to the earlier
mid 20th century in that way, but that, I mean,
music from that time, it's very present for me
and it's beloved to me. So that's interesting.
Now, let's talk real quick about, man, Dana,
you have a lot on your plate. And I was thinking
about that today. Do you like to keep a full
plate and have just have some activity in several
different areas if you can? I'm kind of a cut
of that cloth where I can relax. I like to relax,
but not for very long. Yeah, I would say we're
the same in that way. But the Leonard and Joni,
the untold love story, you're actually back in
the theater realm and taking this performance
on the road in Alberta. I wanted to highlight
that. Yeah, that wasn't something I initiated
actually. There are two, the guys producing that
show, one of whom wrote it, they approached me
to back last spring when they were just got the
idea and were wanting to write it, they wanted
me to do the Joanie bit. So I talked them into
hiring my band for it, which they did. And we
did it at a venue here in October and now we're
going on the road. So yeah, that's an interesting
opportunity to, it's not exactly theater, but
it's definitely storytelling. So, you know, that
skill set definitely comes into play. in a really
wonderful way. And, you know, I definitely had
a period of my life where I was way too immersed
in Joni Mitchell and had to kind of emerge from
that cocoon at some point. But, you know, I know
her story and I know her catalog well. And I
mean, you know, Leonard Cohen is so fantastic,
too. So, you know, even though I didn't initiate
this project, I feel so lucky that someone is
doing it and that I'm a part of it. It's brilliant.
And so they Leonard Leonard Cohen and Joni Mitchell
had a brief love affair in with the mid late
60s With 67 it was yeah, which interestingly
is before Before he really got famous. I mean,
he's sort of funny It's like he kind of had the
height of his fame when he was in his 80s, you
know or late late 70s but but it was before either
of them really got famous and before Joni had
even released an album, but they they were both
on the early stage of things um and I mean the
story is that Judy Collins had decided to produce
both of their songs for an album that she made
she she put both sides now on it and she also
did uh Suzanne which the Leonard Cohen song and
this was around the same time period that she
had been introduced to the work of these songwriters
and she I guess as as a gesture of gratitude
for them having you know given her these songs
to that she I think had big hits with um she
got she arranged for them both to be invited
to perform at the Newport Folk Festival in 67
even though they were both pretty unknown and
that's where they met and then they they just
hit it off and I think they were together for
the better part of a year and and then you know
life goes on and and and their lives changed
quite dramatically from around that point too
so yeah it's an interesting little often unknown
piece of their histories. And speaking of Joni
Mitchell as an influence to you, some more press,
some more acclaim coming your way from Penguin
Eggs magazine once called Dana Wiley, the you're
the only artist that they are comfortable comparing
favorably to Joni Mitchell in the scope of her
talent ever. So that's some high praise. That
was a that was the thrilling one for me to read.
I can see, you know, I mean, it's you know, Joni
Mitchell's acclaim as an artist is pretty universal.
So it's generally speaking, it's high praise.
But, you know, for me personally, to having I
feel like I have a complicated relationship with
her music, but but a deep one. So so yeah, that's
one of the most thrilling things I've ever anyone's
ever said to me or written about me for sure.
And then also the I haven't heard any of these
songs. But I'd love to the release date is September
of this year and we mentioned I think at the
top of the episode secondhand dream car the Edmonton
area supergroup You've been doing a residency
at a local club there and that the album answer
the call is planned for later this year Seems
like you're having a lot of fun with this and
what's the response when you guys were out there?
I'm sure people that are part of the scene all
kind of get together then naturally you just
well hey what if we did this what if you want
to come up and jam or do you want to I guess
it just comes together if you've been around
a while and you make friends do you have a lot
of fun just getting up there and playing with
people that you've known for a while yeah it's
it's fantastic it's very special I mean, you
mentioned earlier that this was a side project,
but I almost feel now like my thing has become
a side project and I'm pretty focused on Second
Hand Dream Car right now because it is one of
those things that just sort of came from being
around. Three of us in the band actually were
just asked to come together to form a house band
for something called a Pro Jam, which was happening
at a different venue actually, which was a kind
of meant to be a thing where like kind of like
a jam a jam night but for professional musicians
and they wanted to have a house band that played
at the beginning of the night and so I was asked
to be the keyboard player and singer in that
band, and my good friend Harry, who also has
produced my last three records, he was asked
to be the bass player, so obviously we had history.
And the person actually putting that band together
is the drummer Jamie Cooper, who I had never
played with before, although we knew each other
socially. And we had another guitar player playing
with us named Enoch, who has his own project,
so he hasn't ended up in this band. But yeah,
we started playing together. Once a week learning
a few cover tunes to do this gig basically and
and after about six months of that We were just
really starting to feel like wow. We really we're
vibing pretty nice together you know this is
starting to feel like it like it's something
and and you know two years on from that we are
very much a band we brought some other people
into it and and yeah we we've recorded an album
and we're playing every week to have a residency
as a as a new band and play every week is just
the most valuable thing and um it's very exciting
um it's it's different it's kind of like soul
soul roots blues rock music, you know, it's,
it's quite different from, from what I do, but
it's like music that's so close to my heart.
And yeah, when, when a band comes together where
it's really, really just working in, it's so
clearly that like greater than the sum of its
parts kind of a thing. It's like, that's a special
thing to be nurtured and, and to just be grateful
for, you know? Well, I can't wait to hear the
music and I'm excited without even having heard
it that you're shifting your focus in this direction.
Because if I feel like I've heard the best of
Dana Wiley on how much muscle I can't wait for
what's coming next. And I wish I wish I was a
little bit closer to the area. But, you know,
never say never. I like to travel. So hopefully
one day, speaking of Edmonton, for some people,
my listeners who have never visited that area,
How vibrant is the local music scene? The art
scene and if they just want to go take it take
a trip there That's a great question Edmonton
has a really particular and rich cultural history
I'd say that you know the music scene right now
I'd like there to be more going on and with us
starting up this residency playing every week
we like we have a strong intention to we want
to move the whole scene in the direction of where
Edmonton can be the kind of town where any night
of the week, if you want to go hear great music,
like you can do that somewhere. You know, you
can go hear a great band because we have so much.
There's so many great local musicians and that
we're trying to kind of push the culture in that
direction because we really did once have that.
And thanks to I don't know, whatever the cultural
environment was in the through the 60s and 70s,
it allowed for So I mean, the Edmonton Fringe
Festival, which is a theater festival, was founded
in 1980, which is the same year as the Folk Festival
here. And this was all started by, you know,
grassroots. These were totally grassroots operations.
And, you know, Edmonton has always had that.
And I felt that when I moved here in the late
90s, nearly 20 years on from these things, you
know, this part of the of the cultural legacy,
I felt that like I felt it immediately when I
moved here. I was like, this is a place where
people just make stuff. they don't wait for you
know someone in Toronto to like notice them and
give them a pile of money like or or whatever
it is people just make stuff you know and and
they find a way to make it work whether they
have money or not and and that's why I fell in
love with the city and that's that's why having
left the country for several years when I came
back it was like there was no question for me
where I would move back to when I came back to
Canada um because that is so that's what I feel
is special about Edmonton. And it has to do with
all kinds of economic factors, like where Edmonton
has fit in the larger economy of Alberta and
Canada, that it's never been quite as moneyed
as Calgary, because here in Alberta, it's oil
and gas country. And all the oil companies, they
have their offices in Calgary. And Edmonton has
traditionally been a bit more blue collar. But
it's the capital city, so we have the provincial
legislature here. So this matrix of all kinds
of factors that have meant that what has grown
through the latter part of the 20th century and
into this one is like a real grassroots cultural
scene, which is in theater and music and other
artistic pursuits as well. And so our thing with
our band is that is that we feel like for various
reasons that that's been lost a little bit. Like,
you know, the Fringe Festival now is still it's
still a wonderful thing, but it's huge now. And
it's you know, it's it's a lot more corporate
than it used to be. And, you know, like everything
moves in that, you know, the Edmonton Folk Festival
now is also huge. You know, like they sell twenty
five thousand tickets and they they hire two
local acts every year. They hire dozens and dozens
of acts, the vast majority of which. are not
from Edmonton you know so it's like the bigger
it gets yeah yeah exactly you know that's that's
how things go I guess but we we really feel like
and I've always felt very strongly like Edmonton
has this and I can appreciate that as someone
who who moved here at some point who didn't you
know grow up here and take it for granted it's
like it really blew my mind when I first moved
here at the age of 17 particularly in contrast
to where I was from, you know, a small prairie
town that just didn't have, you know, everything
kind of revolved around, you know, hockey, really,
you know. So with our with our band, like we
hope to be a part of of moving our scene in the
direction of I think back in the direction of
what it always has been like back to its heart
as a really vibrant grassroots, you know, and
proud to be what it is, you know. I was reading
about the Ravenwood Festival. I guess you played
that last year. Yes. Oh, no, I played a few years
ago. I think it was 2018, but I, they have a
music club and they're doing a whole and I did
that just last week. But I love this, um, uh,
this quote that you said about live music, live
settings for where music lives. It's so important,
not only to the local music community, but to
the community in general. I love how you say
that because a vibrant music community. just
kind of spills out into the rest of the community.
Music includes people. It welcomes people. You
can usually show up to a music venue wearing
what you want to wear, being who you want to
be. You can come with a pack of people. You can
walk in by yourself. Music is welcoming. So I
just love how you say that. Yeah, that's so true.
That's well said. And wow, we could keep going
and going. We'll probably have to cut it a little
bit short, but I also want to speak to the Duets
album that you've got scheduled with Sammy Volkov.
I have no idea what that's about. I mean, other
than... That's just another thing, you know.
You've got a lot of things on your plate. But
I want to put that out there. Everybody listening,
also check out Makings of a Voice. Yeah, kind
of a theater storytelling piece that I have done
a few times over the last well since 2021 I guess
I wrote I wrote it through through 2019 2020
and then in 2021 I Performed it and then I did
it at our fringe festival actually just this
past summer and you know how that how and why
I decided I wanted to write what it is is it's
a storytelling piece that's extremely personal
and autobiographical and interweaves my songs
with the storytelling. So it's not exactly a
play but it's not a concert and I don't know
quite what it is but and I couldn't tell you
now why I felt at some point a few years ago
like this was a thing I really needed to do but
I did and so I don't know when I'll when I'll
perform it again but But you know it addresses
all kinds of things about being an artist and
being a mother and you know cut the complications
of maternal lineages and things like that Now
that you mentioned motherhood, I forgot to really
dedicate Time to this topic. We'll try to do
it real quickly. How has being a mother as a
creative person You know young kids they can
They can kind of get it in the way, or kind of
disrupt just everyday tasks around the house
that can drive you nuts. But when you've got
an idea and you want to be working on something,
but... Well, I also have a two -year -old, so
I need to shelve this for a while. Do you go
through stuff like that? I mean, we love our
children. I'm not trying to paint a different
picture, but how has motherhood and your craft
blended? Do they coexist? Do you include the
kids? Yeah, I think they really do coexist. And
I mean, I prefer them to. It's not nice when
life starts to feel super compartmentalized,
although it does inevitably. There is a real
contrast between, for example, last night was
the night I do the residency with Secondhand
Dream Car. So I was out at a blues bar playing
from 8 to midnight. And then I get home late,
and I get to bed late. And, you know, then I
got to get up in the morning and it's this whole
daytime. It's like, in some ways, the contrasts
are very real. But they weave together and, you
know, my kids will, you know, I teach music lessons
in my house, too. That's part of how I make my
living. And, you know, sometimes my son is playing
in the living room while I'm teaching a piano
lesson because that's how it has to be. And sometimes
my kids come to gigs with me. And I went back
to England last summer for about two weeks um
to do some shows with my old bandmates and my
10 year old came with me and that was her first
big trip away from Canada and and it was you
know it was all kinds of things it was it was
challenging to to bring her and it was all so
fantastic and in the end like for her to have
had that experience felt afterwards like the
main reason to have done it you know so for me
it's like integration is is always what what
you want, you know, you want life to just feel
like it's one thing, you know, and it's funny
because, you know, yeah, inevitably having kids
makes it really hard to be a creative person
and a musician in particular. Like, I think it
is true, you know, I don't have stats to back
this up, but I think it is true that the vast
majority of women making music full time and
participating in the industry don't have kids.
I think that it's certainly my observation. because
it's not easy. What music as an industry asks
of you is kind of total, you know? But on the
other hand, it's like I can't conceive of being
able to, you know, be creative and do all this
stuff with that. Like having kids was just so
essentially grounding for me in a way that I
don't even want to think about the person I would
be right now if I didn't have kids, you know?
It's like, I mean, you know this because you
have kids. It's so grounding. It's at some basic
level you have to function like a grown -up and
when you have kids like even if it's just in
a real basic level Yeah, you have to make concessions
and But I think you you have a unique opportunity
as as do any musicians artists performers You've
got children children are naturally they want
to look up to their parents You know kids still
Unfortunately who have fathers who just disappear
and never send them a birthday card or just you
know They just go away kids still long for that
parent. You know, they could be just the worst
at that job at being a parent whether it's something
that bad or you're just on your phone all day
and not playing with your kid, you know, your
kid still idolizes you and I try to check into
this myself that Many many years from now when
when we're gone just like we do with our parents,
we're going to tell stories. Our kids will be
in their 30s and their 40s and their 50s, and
they'll be talking about, oh yeah, this was how
my mom was. This is how my dad was. And you're
kind of getting a chance to craft that story
now. So I think some parents don't check into
that as often as maybe they could. I don't want
to preach to anybody. But yeah, they look up
to you, whatever you do. uh whether you're an
electrician or a musician or a lawyer they they
look up to you and they will they will talk about
you when you're long and gone i mean when you're
uh long gone that's so true and i i always feel
like there's a balance to be struck i mean i
i guess all parents and maybe mothers in particular
must feel like this but i certainly feel like
so much of who I am as a person I don't think
of as being very mom -like in a way. And in many
ways, this is something that I address in my
show, Makings of a Voice, that I was raised by
a mom who in many ways was not very mom -like.
It's one of the lines that people remember from
my show, which is a thing I actually said to
someone in real life one day. This was before
I had kids and I was actually in Taiwan and I
was at a bar. I was talking to this guy and I
don't know how the topic came up but he asked
me if I thought I would have kids one day and
like the thing that just came out of my mouth
without even thinking was no I don't think so
because like I was raised by a long line of women
who shouldn't had kids in the first place like
you know like like that my mom and my grandma
my my baba on my mom's side in so many ways like
these are these are women who like like in so
many ways, like weren't that well suited to being
a mother. And like, I feel that about myself
too. Like my life, you know, and what my kids
see me do, the shape of my life, the kind of
the lack of routine and regularity in it. I mean,
you know, kids, kids really do need routine and
rhythm. And it's like, my life does not have
that. And like, there are all these ways that,
that I feel like, oh, this is not, you know.
this is not normal and like maybe it's not ideal,
but then I also think, but you know, it's like,
I also like me, you know, living my life in a
way that's increasingly authentic to me and to
them. And, you know, just like following, you
know, whatever that is that we follow in our
lives, learning the lessons we need to learn.
It's like that my kids are part of that and they're,
you know, and as you say, they're observing me.
me do that and you know like there there's no
scenario where I could where it would be the
right choice for me to decide you know a good
mom is like this and is around and doesn't work
and doesn't go out and play gigs until two in
the morning you know and and so I'm gonna do
this it's like that wouldn't make me a better
mother because the it's like the kind of classic
maternal self -sacrifice it's inevitable but
if you carry it too far it's I think it would
be detriment, you know? Sure, I like what you
said about just authenticity. Parents often don't
have a lot of control over our schedules of what
we're called on and different things pulling
us in different directions. There's times where
I'm taking my baby daughter to her caregiver
in the morning and I'm walking from the car down
the sidewalk to that front door. And I'm realizing,
wow, this is about the only time that I'm going
to get to hold her until the end of the day.
But then when we all come home, it's going to
be the boys and my baby girl, Vivian. I'm not
going to get to just hold her exclusively. So
this is like just a fleeting moment. And that
dawns on me. But I just think, well, just trying
to make the most of this time be authentic. Yeah,
and yeah for me. It's like just trying to be
present You know because you're not always there
as you say, but it's like that's the thing I
feel I have to keep working to get better at
Well, well, I feel like we could explore this
topic. Yeah another episode I always mention
a second episode so this time next year or whenever
I would love to Reconnect with you and talk about
your current projects. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I would
I would love to do that That would be so great.
This has been fantastic. I usually try to pepper
in a little lightning round of stuff of just
some silly questions. Maybe one or two if you've
got interest in something like that. Sure. How
do you are you a breakfast person? I am a huge
breakfast person where it's like feed me everything
that I could possibly eat and I don't have time
to do all that. But if I did, I would do the
pancakes, the bacon, the eggs. The everything
probably not every day. It's not very healthy.
But are you the type of person when you wake
up? Did you you want to you want to eat a big
breakfast or you okay with just some coffee and
let's get this thing going Well here I yeah,
I love a big breakfast, but I want it about three
hours after I get up I want to like I want to
get up because I'm like I'm a nighttime person
really naturally so like I want to get up in
the morning and just have coffee and ideally
sit around like and not I have I really struggle
with the whole like, you know, the whole get
up in the morning and like got to get the kids
lunch ready and like make a million things happen
right away. It's like that's that's hard for
me. I ideally I would just like get up and like
sit around with a cup of coffee for a while.
And then like, yeah, once I've been up for a
couple hours, then yeah, yeah, bacon and eggs
and the whole bit. Yeah, I love love that. When
you don't have a gig and you're and you don't
have to be anywhere do anything What are you
most inclined to do and there's no wrong answer?
Do you like to watch a documentary? Do you like
to are there series that you like to watch or
movies or do you? Want to just open a book or
do you ever just want to? sometimes I I'll look
at park benches at times and I'll think wow,
it's been a long time since I've just seen somebody
or or been there myself sitting, just sitting
and looking at my surroundings and not looking
at my phone, not being occupied with anything
else, just sitting. That's a bizarre twist on
that question, but what do you like to do? Gosh,
I don't watch things that often. Mostly I find
that I don't have time. Maybe the downtime you're
talking about just doesn't happen that often.
I do, I mean, I do like to read too, but probably
don't do it as much as I would like to because
I feel my plate, like, as you say, I've filled
up my plate quite a lot. So there's just like,
usually if I, if I reach the end of a task and
it's like close to the end of the day, it's,
it's probably not good. How often, even if it's
like 11 or 1130 at night, I'll, you know, in
that window between that time and going to bed,
I'll find some other little thing to get done,
you know, like, so that's hard. But I really
like going for walks. And I kind of I've gotten
better at identifying more often moments where
it's like, okay, like, I need to go, as you say,
like, just not, not tackle anything, not take
in any information, and just go be out and like,
look at stuff and you know we have a pretty extensive
river valley here in Edmonton with a lot of green
space and it's quite forested and so to go be
able to walk in the valley and just it smells
different than the rest of the city and that
for me is really valuable because for me like
watching documentaries or reading books it's
like it's just how I work like that's not even
really downtime for me because I'm because I
engage intensively with those things you know
like you said uh wherever you live There's something
outdoors that you can go explore even for 30
minutes and That sensory engagement when you
just go for a walk It's more than just oh, it's
a sunny day. It's just you start noticing things
you start smelling things that you're not expecting
and Yeah, it gets you outside of yourself. I
think that's a big part of it and a big benefit
to it I I've just thoroughly enjoyed this conversation
with you I hope you have as well I definitely
have so much. Yeah, thank you and thanks for
participating in the show. This is uh, the dan
time podcast folks, but I probably don't say
it enough it may appear That something like this
is is about me and if it's not it's it's just
a quirky way for me to present people who are
Named dan or pretty close to it Why? I'm still
trying to answer that question, but hey, look
what we've created here. It's fun. I'm really
trying to encourage people, like I said at the
very beginning, to get outside your bubble, but
also demonstrating through what I'm doing here
that you can find a common thread with other
people, and it might just be the letters in your
name. But thanks for being here, Dana, and I
wish you all the success here in the new year.
with your projects going on. Real quick, I'll
mention it in the show notes, but DanaWiley .net
is the website, D -A -N -A -W -Y -L -I -E .net.
Any other plugs that you'd like to put in for
people? Well, my band has a website too, secondhanddreamcar
.com, so I guess people can check that out too.
Okay, and so just... I sometimes pump out all
the other social channels, but really if you
go to these websites You'll get to the other
places that you want to go and you can find out
the performance schedule on either end Okay.
Well Thank you so much Dana and we'll reconnect
Hopefully later this year remember folks if you're
going through something right now, which which
everybody is You've got people who Who are rooting
for you to succeed to get through it to let it
all out and they don't even know you and it's
people like Dana Wiley so make sure you download
or you can purchase an LP version of Her latest
solo record how much muscle I cannot emphasize
enough. Please Take a shot on this album and
be on the lookout for new music from secondhand
dream car you guys have a great rest of the week
and We'll see you next Sunday on the Dan Time
Podcast. Thanks so much, Dana. Oh, that was so
much fun.