Welcome to episode number 26 of the Dan Time
podcast. I am your host, Dan McCardle. Thanks
for plugging some Dan Time into your morning,
your evening, your drive time, your daily run,
however you consume this show. I appreciate you,
my friend, and I don't care what they say about
you. You're all right with me. I hope you checked
out last week's episode with San Francisco based
indie pop singer songwriter, Daniela Galasso.
I love what Daniela is doing. The message that
she's putting out there with her current single,
Wait, about unconditional love and her unique
style and substance in her song catalog. If let's
say you or someone you love or like or work with
is a Taylor Swift fan, tell them about Daniela
Galasso. Also If you like the Breakfast Club
movie or the soundtrack, listen to Daniela's
cover of Don't You Forget About Me. I was really
impressed with Dani and I can't wait to see what
she's got coming out next. Remember, you can
follow Daniela at SoundsLikeDani .com and at
SoundsLikeDani on social media. What do you think
when you hear about a tribute band? Now, depending
on where you live, you may have gone out one
night to see a Nirvana tribute act, maybe Fleetwood
Mac, Van Halen, The Beatles, Bob Marley, just
naming a few. Who are some of the best ones you've
seen? Or have you ever been blown away by one
of these performers? How have you felt when you
saw a tribute band for, let's say, your all -time
favorite band? Did they stack up? Well, my favorite
band since I was 16 years old is Metallica. So
the good thing about being a fan of a long -established
chart -topping powerhouse, there's probably a
tribute band out there trying to represent them
in a live setting. However, it's not often you
find a group of musicians who actually claim
to be a note -for -note album quality version
of the band, let alone back it up night after
night, year after year. That is exactly what
the Four Horsemen are doing and have been doing
for the past 17 years. Comprised of founding
member Sean Perry on vocals and rhythm guitar,
Drew Pencook on drums, Luke Kunkel on lead guitar,
and Alec Wolf on bass, the Four Horsemen are
billed as quote, the only album quality Metallica
tribute band on the planet. My guest today is
Sean Perry. Sean answers the question, why? Why
would you choose to do this? Why go out there
and perform someone else's songs? The episode
you're about to hear was recorded Friday, January
26th, backstage at Vinyl Music Hall here in Pensacola,
Florida. I met with Sean shortly after sound
check and, you know, you never know what to expect
in these situations. This was the first time
we'd met. So he could have said, listen, I got
five minutes. I got eight minutes exactly. And
then we kind of wrap it up. Uh, or it could have
gone completely different, which it did. So Sean
said, Hey, come on, follow me. We took an, took
an elevator upstairs and sat down, shot the breeze
for a few minutes. And I realized this is just
a regular guy who has a very unique talent and
drive to do this despite all obstacles. And we'll
get to some of those in this episode. As you
start to understand. those can really multiply
the obstacles for any touring band. His back
was really giving him trouble from an unplanned
accident trying to hoist his lead guitarist,
as I understand it, a couple weeks prior. And
that was very apparent. He was in some pain.
And they were in Akron, Ohio the day before.
Here they are on the Gulf Coast of Florida. And
after they play that night, they're heading 11
or 12 hours to the colony, Texas. to play the
following night. And I'd seen their performance
two years ago at this venue, so I knew what they
promised, and I had witnessed them deliver on
that promise. And I'm thinking, in this obvious
pain, how is he about to get up on stage in a
couple hours and kick it into high gear again?
How? Sean struck me as a guy who treats the moment
with a lot of respect. He's present. If he's
talking to you for these few minutes or these
couple hours, that's what he's doing. That's
what he's doing. And he gives his full attention.
And as you're about to see, I did not anticipate
how powerful our conversation was going to be.
Sean shares a story with me about his troubled
childhood, never before shared in public. His
story is going to leave a mark on you. So I got
to give a shout here to the whole band. Drew
is just a monster behind the kit. Sean was telling
me about him before the episode, how he is meticulous
in picking out even the smallest details in these
songs. He was simply incredible on the opener
of Disposable Heroes, and you could hear the
crowd reacting to his thundering double bass.
Luke and Alec, their playing was spectacular.
Luke's solos, my gosh, but... The fun that those
guys have on stage goofing around with each other,
you could see it. They're running around swapping
mic positions. Luke just looking like he's having
the time of his life and really connecting with
the audience. It was something very special to
behold. At one point you could see a dad holding
up his young daughter so she could see the guys
during one of the songs. She must have been six,
seven, eight years old. I could tell during the
song that Sean got a big kick out of it and he
said something to the dad and the little girl
after the song. He talks about in this episode
how special it is for him to recognize the kids
who come to these shows and to take pictures
with them, take time out with them and make memories
for them. He was all about making it a fun and
special night for everyone there, which it was.
Whether you're a Metallica fan like me or you're
not really into this style of music But you want
to hear about a guy who's been all the way down
and all the way out and Climbed his way back.
You're in the right place folks from the four
horsemen the world's only album quality tribute
to Metallica it is Sean Perry time Sean thank
you so much for your time tonight to make an
appearance here You're out on the road non -stop
taking this Probably in some cases to the unsuspecting
masses. They don't often see a tribute act. It
is truly worth their salt Before I continue rambling
just thanks for being here. Thanks for appearing
on the podcast. You're welcome It's a pleasure
to talk with you guys and you know It is something
that you put a lot of labor into. It's a labor
of love. Like a lot of guys would probably tell
you that are out there on the road. I mean, we
get all walks of people that come to our shows
and a lot of people are like, why would you do
someone else's music? And I'm like, well, because
I used to be a person who would go to Metallica
tribute shows and Motley Crue shows, all these
cheaper, much, much cheaper shows that go see
a tribute. And I got... upset because the music
wasn't being played properly and it was one of
those things where I, you know, I'm a musician
myself. I put three albums out when I was in
my 20s and after that I just kind of laid back
in the scene and would just watch other bands
do their thing and I was like just not very happy
with it and I was like, you know, maybe I could
do something like this and so 2007 I started
and now when people ask me why I do it I said
because it's bigger than me. It's spreading joy.
People want Need joy in their lives and a lot
of people go to entertainment of some form or
another movies music Plays whatever, you know,
and and so That's what I feel. I am. I'm just
an entertainer that's spreading joy So I'm gonna
keep going and we're gonna keep building and
make it I mean, it's pretty big now But there's
a lot of things in the works now that this year
is gonna be a big transitional year for us So
we're pretty excited Well, I'm really excited
for you. I saw you once before in 2022 And a
few years prior, I saw a Metallica tribute band.
I won't say where and I won't mention their names,
but some of my listeners can relate to this if
you've gone to see a tribute performance for
any band. And it's just a fun night. You know,
at best it's just you had a good time. Oh, that
was fun seeing somebody do their spin on your
favorite songs. And so that's all it was. And
it was... maybe even a little underwhelming,
but I just didn't sulk on it too much. When I
saw The Four Horsemen, which I probably didn't
even say Sean Perry, the lead vocalist and guitarist
for The Four Horsemen, the only album quality
Metallica tribute, you guys blew me away. I read
about what you did, what you do before I went
to the show and I thought, okay, I'm in, I'm
in. If they're going to proclaim this, I have
to go. This is my favorite band. and you just
blew the roof off the place. And I'm just so
thrilled that you're dedicated to your craft
after all these years. And like you were saying,
and like I talk about on this podcast, whatever
you're out there doing, I think we all have a
responsibility if we can to use our talents to
help other people, to maybe be relatable to other
people, to bring joy. There are things about
heavy metal music that it doesn't click with
everybody. Some people can't get into the sound,
the volume, uh, the lyrical content in some,
in some cases, but man, it works for a lot of
us and I'm, I'm one included. It has spoken to
people and it's helped people through some very
difficult times. And for you guys to go note
for note on some of these songs, you're really
out there changing lives because you're playing
fade to black. You're playing sanitarium. Even
songs like Battery have special meanings to people
and that's got to bring you great joy. Yeah,
I mean a lot of these songs, you don't know which
song is going to relate to who how. When I was
a kid, I was a big ACDC guy. Just hard rock really
sung to me. Nazareth was another kind of Brian
Johnson style vocal before. He was even doing
it in ACDC and I was just, I couldn't believe,
you know, Hair of the Dog and Beggar's Day, Whiskey
Drinking Woman. I was like, I love that raspy,
growly voice and stuff. So when I heard ACDC,
I just, it was a magnet. You know, I had to get
the albums and all that. And then one of my friends
was walking down the street one day blasting
Sanitarium and I didn't know what it was. I was
up in my attic drawing some pictures and I ran
downstairs and I'm screaming at him because he
had a big boombox next to his ear while he's
walking in the middle of my mosque street, right?
And I'm like, dude, stop, stop, stop. He finally
stopped. I'm like, what is that? He's like, it's
in Metallica. And I'm like, I don't even know
what Metallica is, dude. But can I borrow your
cassette? Because I've got a high speed dub recorder.
And he's like, no, get your own, you know. And
he walks off and I'm like, I don't even know
the name of the song because I didn't know it
was Santerium at the time. I just heard the song
that one. And I was like. Okay, so all I know
is it's Metallica. I don't know the name of the
song. I don't know the name of the album. So
I had to go to the store and by process of elimination
buying different ones when I had enough money
to go back and get another one, you know, I found
that song and I was like, wow, this really changed
the ballgame for me. But in the meantime, I started
learning about Creeping Death and, you know,
Metal Militia off of Kill 'em All is just like
these really crazy songs. I'm like, nobody's
playing like this. This is... this is new, this
is totally groundbreaking stuff for when we were
kids. There was no internet, there weren't even
any pagers. God, I remember my mom got a freaking
microwave and it was like a thousand dollars.
So there was no way to get that music back unless
somebody had it on a tape or a record. And that's
how I started discovering things and it totally
changed my mindset. So my father was a drummer
and a singer. And he always told me, he says,
if you ever are lucky enough to get in the band
and you go out and you actually perform for people
and you expect to be paid, don't ever half -ass
it. You give it everything you've got because
they paid and those people deserve to be entertained
for their money. I don't care if it's five bucks.
So I've always kept that in me, that don't ever
let down the audience. Give it everything you've
got, like... I've played with a broken foot.
I've played when I've been kicked out of my own
house. I have played when my fiance left me the
night before. I have played with the flu. And
tonight I'll be playing with an extremely sore
back because I heard it being stupid 12 days
ago and it still hasn't healed. But you do what
you have to do because I'm not going to cancel
the show. These people have waited. They have
anticipated. They are excited. I see it on our
Facebook, Instagram, all that stuff. And they're
just like, I can't wait for you guys to come
down. I'm like, OK. Had a flat tire twice today.
Had to go to Home Depot or Lowe's and get myself
one of them little cobalt air compressors. I'm
like, we're not missing this fucking show. I
don't care. We were an hour late to get here.
And I'm like, I don't care. We're going to make
it happen. Tomorrow we got to drive. Well, tonight
we have to drive over 10 hours to get to the
colony, Texas, for tomorrow's show. And we're
going to fucking do it because people need it.
people want it they expect it and when you see
that joy out there when you see people singing
along I don't care if it's my music or if it's
someone else's if you're an entertainer and you
see that joy out there it just warms your heart
and it's like this is bigger than me I have to
do this they they need it we need it you know
it's therapy for all of us you know I came from
a very broken home very I'll just call it abusive
and um Back then, there was no social workers.
There was no number to call if you were having
problems with the beatings and all that shit.
You just dealt with it, right? And so I was a
real screwed up kid and music was my escape.
And I was very poor all the way through my 30s.
So I barely ever got to go to a show. But when
I got to go to the show, it was everything to
me. So I remember... how I felt when I got to
go to the show. And that's what I tell myself.
Those people out there might need this, and it
might be the only show they could afford this
month. You get your ass there and you give them
everything you got. That's my philosophy. Beautifully
spoken there. You talk about Pensacola, Florida.
There are people who live in this area. They
work hard every day. Some of them might be working
six days a week, so it's not quite possible to
go to Atlanta. and see Metallica, may not be
in the budget to go to New Orleans and see Metallica
as much as they'd want to, or even people like
me who I have seen Metallica play before. I don't
feel like I need to go see the band to be fulfilled
again. I've seen them a lot. And I think what
you're bringing to people, like you said, is
that anticipation, that joy, people listening
to this. It's one thing about what critics say
but go to the Facebook page for the venue in
your town that The Four Horsemen are playing
in a few weeks and just see what people are commenting
you can look at the vinyl music halls page and
so yeah, you're providing this outlet and Man
going to live Concerts, it's all about a feeling
and an emotion. So if you spent 20 to 40 Or 50
bucks, you know, you had a couple drinks or something
and you had a good time and you ate downtown
You really might go back home with the same thrill
that you had if you spent and I don't I don't
want to discourage anybody from seeing Metallica
if it's in the bank for you, but man I had such
a Such a phenomenal time two years ago seeing
the four horsemen and it's because of the dedication
to excellence as they describe on their website
that they're just not gonna sell it short. They're
not gonna let anything stop them from getting
to these gigs and whatever the day's been like.
Like you said, I can't believe the fiance situation
and you're still up there playing the songs and
to keep the guys together and to have the buy
-in from everybody in the band. It's definitely
hard when you have three, four other personalities
that you deal with. And sometimes, I mean, today
we were Testing each other's nervous, you know,
because things were going wrong and it's not
just here There's you know, we all have home
lives as well and there's things that go wrong
at home and then sometimes you can't Compartmentalize
it and it comes out on the road even you know
Today was one of them days where it's like everything
is going wrong with I got to get to this show
and then there was things going on at home with
another member and it's like alright, you know
where we got to get back to what we're supposed
to be doing here, but The dedication to it is,
like I said, you know, you've got people out
there that want to be entertained and they don't
just want and expect it, they paid for it. I
don't want people to go home disappointed and
I want to hear, you know, if I go to a Metallica
show, I've only seen Metallica in 91 when they
were on the Black Album Tour, right? Richfield
Coliseum, I think it was November 91. I was,
God, like 16 years old or something like that.
And it was incredible. I couldn't believe what
I saw. James was spittin' and drinkin' beer and
spittin' the beer out at the people and motherfuckers
and everything. And I was like, wow, these guys
are still, even at the, that album was pinnacle
for them, right? They went from selling like
500 to 750 ,000 copies to 12 million when that
album came out. It changed the game. They blew
Def Leppard off the stage, Tesla, all of the
Motley Crue, all the bands got just decimated
in their wake when the Black Album came out.
So they established themselves as like a legend
basically. It's like watching Elton John or the
Beatles or Led Zeppelin, right? They got that
status in 91 and I got to see them live in 91
and it was... piss and vinegar and I was like
if that's when I wrote my three albums I played
like that on stage just angry pissed off and
I wasn't angry at people it's just you give people
that energy of a metal show If Garth Brooks did
that, it would be like, weird. Like, what are
you doing? Brad Paisley is over here giving demon
eyes at his fans while he's singing about losing
his truck and his car and his wife and his house.
It doesn't convey well with a country or any
other field, but metal, you can do that. And
people understand and they give you those horns.
I've had crowds just flipping us off all night,
but it was a respect. You know, it was like the
F -U type of thing that metal people have. And
I thought some of these people were mad, but
then I see them clapping and whistling after
the shows. I'm like, all right, they're having
fun. This is just our metal community, a bunch
of brothers and sisters getting together and
having the camaraderie, the energy that happens
when you're at a really fun show. So that, you
know, you try to remember that stuff. Because
like I said before, I'm very poor. throughout
my 30s. I cut all my hair off and went back to
school. I put my guitar away for years because
I wanted to eat. It was that bad that I lost
my house. I lost a car. I lost a fiance at that
point. It was just a bad, bad situation. So I
just said, music is not going to work. I need
something else. So I went back to school, got
an IT degree, and blah, blah, blah. This band
approached me about they lost their singer. and
you know could I sing and play guitar and I said
well yeah I used to be in this band in Cleveland
and they said oh my god you're that's your band
I'm like yeah and like we have all your albums
like oh my god really what a small world so I
said yeah you know maybe I could do this on the
side and then it just that itch you know I seen
the people just phenomenal energy out in the
crowd I was like this is a passion Doing IT is
great. It changed my life. It taught me how to
work a business, build a business, right? Because
I actually formed my own company. And I did that
for like, oh god, a dozen years. Made a lot more
money than I do in the music industry, I can
tell you that. But the passion wasn't there.
Yeah, I'm good at fixing servers and emails and
all the crap that goes with working on a domain
system for Microsoft networks, but... There's
no passion with that. When I'm out here and we're
playing and the people are out there having fun,
I'm like, this is why I wake up in the morning.
This is what I'm supposed to do. Sometimes it's
not always about the money. People think, oh
man, you're a rock star and all this crap. And
I'm like, I'm just like anybody else, man. My
back hurts, my feet hurt. Sometimes things go
sideways in your life and you get problems, car
trouble. house trouble, women trouble, whatever,
you know? We're still human beings. You only
see one aspect. You see us on the stage. But,
you know, when you talk with somebody like this
on the sit down and you get to, you know, before
the tape is running, you get to hear a little
bit of the life and you're like, oh, yeah, he
is kind of like, like me, you know? We all are.
We all are. And I don't, I'll never be snotty.
I'll never put my nose up. I'm very friendly
at the end of the shows. We always try to shake
hands, take pictures, give hugs. I love seeing
the little kids in the audience. You know, I'll
throw a pick at them or a little verse band thing
or something and just try and make it special
for them because they're the future of music.
You know, they're the future of everything. And
I want them to remember because I went to Metallica
when I was 16. They have no idea that I even
existed. When I see kids in our audience, I make
a point to point at them, to say hello to them,
wave to them while we're playing and make them
smile. So I love that, and I don't have kids
of my own, but I thought, man, that's a cool
dad or a cool mom to bring their kid out to a
Metallica show, because I'm swearing. It's a
good time, though. Everybody understands. I've
never had a parent come up to me and say, you
need to clean up your act. I'm like, no, they
understand. They're bringing their kid to a 1980s
Metallica experience, so we have fun with it.
Yeah, and so I was listening a little bit to
the Stand up and shout podcast episode that you
appeared on and one thing you said about You
know, everyone's kind of plugged into their phones.
They're Saying hey, man, you're talking to your
friend watch this video of this band that I love
you You're gonna love this performance and you
show it to your friend or you watch something
and you're like, yeah, it looks pretty cool Let
me tell you something and you expressed it better
than I am right now when you're watching The
four horsemen a clip on YouTube. I mean that
gives you a little preview There is nothing like
coming to the venue, hopefully they're hitting
a town near you and just feeling the Marshall
stack. And those kids, when you see the look
on their face, they've never felt this power
and heard these Metallica songs that they've
been, you know, I remember being 16 and stuff
like Whiplash was only one or two years new to
me. And I was just, I mean, it was just like
changing It was just such a big deal, but when
you hear it live Yeah, that's the thing like
you you can watch any band on YouTube and it
is so one -dimensional There's no energy coming
off of that monitor or your little phone or your
tablet whatever it is and I tell people Mike
if you're sitting at your house eating some nachos
and you're getting crumbs on your shirt watching
your little phone and you're watching the next
big act on the phone you're not jumping up and
down like wow you're not clapping you're not
cheering because there's no energy sitting at
home watching your phone have life while you
have no life i love that people are getting out
to the shows again people are starting to get
off of these stupid digital enslaving machines
Come out to a real show and they're like my god
I saw you on YouTube and it's nothing like what
it's like to be in your audience and I said because
Most of those YouTube videos are cell phone.
They're one dimensional You're not getting the
full spectrum of audio for one even our own promo.
I've spent over $12 ,000 making that those there's
some professional audio video on our YouTube
page promo stuff right there's a master puppets
song the full one there's a fight fire with fire
full one and there's a couple little two -minute
promo thingies whatever they don't even convey
I mean it's nice it's kind of exciting to watch
those because there's a lot of different camera
angles and whatnot but If you're not in that
audience, you're still not getting the full monty
of what it's like to actually stand there and
feel the electricity coming through your toes
all the way out the follicles on your head. It's
electrifying to be in the audience. And I've
had so many people tell me, I saw you on YouTube,
but this is, oh my God, it's like, it doesn't
even compare. And I'm like, that's right. Remember
the feeling of being in a live setting, no matter
what band. I'm not talking like it's just my
band. It's any band. Go out. People, whoever's
listening to this now, live your life. Not on
a phone, not on a tablet, not on a PC. Get out
and really smell those flowers. Really go out
and have that bike ride or the jog or whatever.
Don't do the peloton. Go out and live your actual
life. It's so amazing to get out and see the
sun and actually feel the heat on your body rather
than watching it on a movie. You know? Anything
in life. you ever go to lunch when you're on
the road and you see like that old guy that's
he's in his 70s or 80s maybe and he's just sitting
there eating his lunch looking at the scenery
looking out the window he's not conditioned to
using cell phones he never will and i ask like
my brother and some buddies i'm like guys are
we going to be cradling these these devices when
we're like old Back next neck muscles ever right
and then the rest of your body will be falling
apart except your thumbs But but you're right,
I mean just the concert experience When you when
you go to a show and especially an intimate club
setting, this is my favorite venue The favorite
type of venue and you're just around other people
and you're you're seeing something like two guys
that are clearly Good buddies and they're looking
at each other with these huge grins on their
faces as seek and destroy like the opening chords
of seek and destroy are blasting to the speakers
or you know, you just you're Looking at the t
-shirts the way that other people are moving
around Like you said, you don't get that just
taking this on You'll never feel that at home
I don't care You could be your favorite all -time
band it could be Paul McCartney like my manager
his favorite all -time Musician is Paul McCartney
you put Paul McCartney on YouTube or you put
Paul McCartney right in front of him and watch
the different reactions It's it's very it's night
and day and it should be and that's why I tell
people get out take your kids out get them off
the Nintendo and whatever else. These stupid
games, all they're doing is wasting their time.
They could be learning something. They could
be out exploring life like when we were kids.
You know, you go out and you come back when the
streetlights came on. That's the kind of society
that we all should get back into. Enjoy your
life. Don't watch somebody else play a video
game like these YouTube gamer people. I know
young kids who actually just sit on YouTube watching
someone else play a video game. And I'm like,
that's insane. You are absolutely wasting your
life. You could be doing something with your
life. I don't care if it's learning how to build
a freaking fire in the Boy Scouts. Go do something
actually real that you're benefiting from. Oh,
but I like watching that. I'm like, yeah. You're
also working your way towards diabetes, drinking
your, you know, your cokes and your muffins and
your cakes and candies and while you watch it
every day, get out, get some exercise, you know.
Just live your life. Get out there and do what?
you know, do the things that we all should be
doing. We're human beings. We are not a wall.
We're not a chair. We shouldn't be immobile all
day on these stupid phones and whatnot. So you're
right. I don't want to be one of those guys that
goes to the grave looking down because I'm always
on my stupid little tablet or whatever, right?
So it's like, I love traveling like this. I hate
the drives. The drives can be a pain, but I love
traveling around and hearing People's stories
like some people come up to us and they want
to tell us about the first time they ever saw
Metallica or they say hey This is my eight -year
-old son. It's his first Metallica concert And
then that you got me like I'm I'm butter on a
freaking frying pan at that point So I kneel
down and I'm like dude, you know, what's your
favorite song? What's your name? Did you have
fun tonight and we get pictures with them? You
know I and a lot of times if you bring your kid
up to me and I have a beer in my hand And you
want a picture your kids holding my beer And
I want you to show that to his friends. And they're
like, one of my fun things that I do for, because
a lot of dads will bring their kids, right? I'm
like, oh, I'm gonna bring my kid, right? And
so I say, well, here, hold my beer. And we take
a picture. And I said, now, when you go home,
your mom's gonna get pissed that you're drinking
beer. And you just tell her, say, Mom, I didn't
have any beer. I only did shots. I love to have
fun with the kids, though. I love seeing the
kids. They're great. Man, you guys have been
all over all over the map here, Baltimore, Buffalo,
Illinois, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, recently
been in Cleveland, I mean just a couple nights
ago, or a couple weeks ago, New Orleans, and
here we are, Pensacola, back on the road. But
like you said, these encounters probably make
it all worth it. And I did mention at the top
of the episode, but you guys are what you call
a black and back tribute. And I love that where
you don't keep it so open -ended that you have
people saying well, why didn't you play? Now
that we're dead why why I love you know my apocalypse
you guys should definitely play that one So I
think you made the right call and it really that's
what most people probably want to hear I think
that you're getting some of those Load reload
error requests and there's some pretty good songs
a couple good cuts in those albums. Um, how is
that evolving? Are you guys? Yeah, you're right
the black and black format was something that
I coined probably in 2009 or 10 because when
the band the original lineup of people that wanted
me to do this they're long gone from now, but
I Told them I said I only like these five albums
and it's no disrespect at the time that People
have to understand like I was 16 when the black
album came out, right? And before the Black Album,
it was just thrash metal. I abandoned all hope
for radio. Like radio was blasphemy to me. I
was like, no, I know what, I like Scorpions,
I like Boston, I like Journey, all that stuff,
right? But it was like, now there's thrash metal
in my blood and I need to seek out more bands
that do this. So I was on a tear. Like you, I
have to find this. So when the Black Album came
out, It was marketed heavily as you know, this
is gonna be the pinnacle of Metallica type of
release and it was it was heavy hard rock I wanted
thrash. I still liked it because every song still
had an element of that pissiness that that grit
right it they still had We're still Metallica
type of attitude right and I was like, okay.
I I do like this album. I really do but It wasn't
until 1996 that they released Load and Lars was
out there marketing this as the heaviest album
Metallica has ever put out to date would be this
next album Load and I was hyped. I'm like, you
know what? The day that hits the shelves, I'm
in the record store and I'm getting me a CD.
because I had just gotten a five carousel disc
changer, right? And I'm like, okay, now I have
to replace all my cassettes with CDs. And so
I was like, all right, the date came. I was not
a radio listener. And people are like, well,
how did you not know? They were playing tracks
on the radio. I'm like, the radio was garbage
to me. I did not have a radio. I had a CD player.
I heard that Metallica was releasing load. I'm
like, this is my band. I'm getting this album
I grabbed the album. I popped it in and as a
21 year old still Coursing with thrash in his
veins. I was like, oh can't wait to rip the cellophane
off this and get this in my player put it in
the player and I think I don't know if it was
ain't my bitch I think was like the first song
right and I'm listening to this and I'm like
he's like ain't my bitch. Ah, and I was like
What was that? His vocals sounded almost country
twangy, right? So I'm like, okay, that may just
been an offshoot. Keep going. And I'm listening
to the song and I'm like, this format is totally
different. Is this not thrash? I thought he said
this was going to be the heaviest album to date.
So I skipped forward on the next song and then
I skipped forward on the next song and I skipped
forward on the next song and I'm like, oh my
God. This is not what I was expecting and I got,
now remember I was 21 at the time. I was pissed,
I opened the carousel, I took the CD, I whipped
it across the room. I was in my basement and
it hit a pole and it shattered. And then my birthday.
My brother brought the cassette over for my birthday
and he said, Hey, I bought you in the new Metallica.
And I said, take it with you or it'll end up
like my CD. And he said, what do you mean? I
said, have you heard it? That's not thrash. And
I was upset. Now I'm in my forties now and I
understand bands change. James has said, we're
not going to write the same damn song for 40
years. I understand that now. but you couldn't
explain that to a 21 -year -old me. I was pissed.
So I said, screw this, I'm done. So, Black and
Back became my fight song. Black and Back became
what I, like when you say you're a Metallica
fan, I'm like, oh yeah, what do you like? Like
one, Enter Sandman. Because we were like, We
like Motor Breath and you probably don't even
know what album that's on, right? You know, we
were like, you're a poser, especially if it was
chicks. So we had a Metallica fan base, kind
of like it became a snake's tongue where we had
that fork in the road, you know, and I was like,
dad, I'm thrash. And all these other guys are
posers. But you get kids from that time. Their
first song was until it sleeps and until it sleeps
Was their fight song it was holy crap This is
Metallica right and I've had so many people message
me over the last couple of years even saying
I Understand that you're black and back, but
you have to understand I'm way younger and that
Load album was the first experience I had and
so now I'm thinking I'm alienating people because
I was being selfish and I talked with our new
manager about it and he said I think you guys
need to include some things beyond black and
I've had a hard time with that but I'm coming
around to it and I said we still have a very
hardcore fan base that wants to hear Dire Z,
Damage Incorporated, Eye of the Beholder, Motor
Breath escape things trapped under ice jump in
the fire things that no other band can do and
if they tried they're not gonna do it the way
we do it right so I'm like okay I now when I
formulate my set list I know I have to put a
lot of hits in there because you're gonna get
the casual Metallica fan right you're always
gonna get that one that says well I don't know
all these deep -cut songs and I'm like well I'm
educating you tonight, but you still are gonna
get to hear some of the songs that you like But
you also are gonna go home with a new respect
of Wow, Metallica actually had stuff before load
You know, so it's it's more of like, okay I'm
teaching the newer school people to listen to
the old school stuff that we all grew up on but
I'm also allowing myself to say Load and reload.
There's there's some quality hard rock songs
It's not thrash. James didn't write it as thrash.
He knows that. We know that. And I have to learn
to accept that and just say, look, it's a good
song. If it's a good, solid Metallica song, we're
probably going to look and explore it and maybe
even surprise some people with it in 2024. So
I don't know. Hang on to your hats. Really exciting
stuff, though. I mean, I can see where the average
band. That hears about the four horsemen coming
to their town and they they love Metallica and
they're like, oh, yeah, I'd love to go I'd love
to go here fade to black and sad but true and
for whom the bell tolls it this would be a lot
of fun and they go in there and Wow, they're
hearing like you said Dyer's Eve battery Damaging
some of these get mixed around night tonight,
but you guys aren't letting up these technically
challenging songs It's not like well, we'll do
a couple of them We'll do the two or three to
appease the real old -school Metallica heads.
It's a cornucopia when it comes to Metallica.
You've got slow, awesome songs in the old stuff.
You have fast, awesome songs in the old stuff.
And you've got people of all tastes who want
to hear a variety of... those songs and you know
I don't always hit everybody's request in every
show that I can't but I do try to make sure that
it's a variety you know so if we don't do Dyer's
Eve that one night we might do damaging in replace
of that you know so I do or blackened right but
you're gonna hear a surprise or two or three
or four and even some of the songs like like
fade to black That was a big standout performance
when I saw the Four Horsemen in 2022 here at
this venue. The way that that solo was performed,
the note for note dedication, I can still just
picture your lead guitarist. His name is Luke
and yeah, I will give you guys a little insight
on Fade to Black. I mentioned when we were kids,
there was no social services and stuff like that.
Was I'm not gonna say a victim, but I was subjected
to Abuse mental and physical in a single parent
upbringing right and You get depressed and I
did I really I would Mentally take myself out
of my life and when I put that music on live
the words these songs and it's not just Metallica
it was any song that sung to me lyrically because
I'm very oriented in the words the story that
a lyricist is trying to convey right and so when
fade to black when I heard those lyrics was just
like this this is my life I unfortunately was
Suicidal and it was so bad that I was just like
I just want to end it like my mother doesn't
even care that I exist, and that hurts when you're
a little kid. So when I heard Fade to Black,
when I got the Ride to Lightning cassette, I
was big into drawing pictures when I was young.
I've never told anybody this publicly. I can't
even believe I'm going to say this now, but I
still have the drawings where I was drawing myself
being hung, shot, stabbed, and by every one of
them there's a verse of fade to black so fade
to black to me people would say the lyrics are
negative they're they're horrible they're it's
a person wants to die i'm like yeah but you gotta
understand some of us identify with that and
we pressed on despite that feeling of utter just
loneliness and emptiness and no one wants me
and why doesn't my mom love me type of stuff
and I just you know it it hurts sometimes to
talk about it, but I I Got past it. I'm still
alive. There's there's other kids with their
parents Unfortunately ended their lives So I
don't look at myself and say oh, whoa is me I'm
like no the the kids that really matter to the
ones who parents snuffed their lives out I made
it out Somehow I made it out not unscathed not
on scarred, but when I play fade to black those
lyrics It's so emotional for me because sometimes
I get flashbacks when I'm playing on stage, you
know of being a kid and I remember Keep it together.
You're here for these people. It's not about
you, but Music can pump you up music can take
you down, it can make you sad, it can make you
happy, it can make you want to fight. And that's
the emotional power of what you're getting to
experience. So when we play these songs, I don't
do this so that I get money. I do this because
Metallica, in essence, kind of saved my life,
right? And so I want to respect that music and
I want to share it with people who might be hurting.
I've counseled kids. That their parents have
come up to me when they heard my story and said
can you talk to my son? He won't talk to me and
they bring him to my show. I'm like, yeah, absolutely
You know, well you're gonna be like like only
300 miles away. Can I bring my son tomorrow?
Would you talk to him before the show? I said
I'll talk to him before or after what do you
need me to do? And I have I have counseled these
kids and just said look I'm not the answer But
I've been in your shoes and I know what it's
like to hurt and feel like nobody in the whole
world gives a shit about you. So it's about the
family and what music can provide. You can't
pick your parents. You can't pick your relatives,
right? But you can pick your music and you can
pick your fight song. You can pick the things
that are going to make you get through whatever
the hell it is that you're trying to get through
right now. And I chose music to get me through
those darkest times of my life. So I really do.
I try to relate. to the people who reach out
to me in email or in person or whatever and just
say, look, if I did it, you can do it. You can.
You really can. Music gives you something to
hold on to when you don't have that hand on your
shoulder from, say, an uncle or a coach at school
or some positive adult figure. When they're not
there, you need something to grab on to. And
as funny as it sounds, that could be a riff.
That could be James Hetfield's lyrics. It could
be the way that he's singing a song. And I remember
being 16 years old and I kind of got strength
through Hetfield and what he was expressing in
his songs. And I felt like, okay, I can, you
know, project a little bit of that in the world.
You know, I'm bigger than I think I am. I'm stronger
than I think I am not in a just purely physical
sense, but you just you kind of Heavy metal music
in general if it speaks to you It can carry you
through and give you a ray of light Yeah, I agree.
I think any music that Helps you fight any music
that picks you up Even if it's sad lyrics like
you know fade to black can be interpreted more
than this the way I just said You can interpret
that in abstract ways, right? Even James said
that. He goes, I don't want my lyrics to just
pigeonhole into one aspect. Different people
have different meanings to what he sings about.
So yeah, you're right. Whatever you can latch
onto to make you mentally stronger. It's not
about our muscles. The best muscle we have is
between our ears. So you make yourself strong
between your ears. and you can accomplish great
things and I don't care what helps you through
if it helps you through it was a good thing even
if it's a sad song if it helps you through and
you get onto the other side and you say I'm I'm
still breathing I can still do this and you get
your ass moving towards your goals because remember
the only thing that really stops us is our own
limitations of belief if you think you cannot
do something you're right if you think you can
you'll figure out a way to do it. And that's
how I live my life now, right? I had to get away
from the abuse and the negativity because the
worst thing about living in a household where
my mother didn't want us but she kept us because
the paycheck was good from the ex -husband, right?
So the worst thing is not when you get hit. The
pain of that goes away pretty quick. You know,
a day you get over it, whatever, you get swatted
or you get smacked in the head. Other things
can happen that are worse. I understand that
and believe me trust me. I don't want to go into
the personal Experience of what happened to me
in my household, but those pains are healed Physically,
it's the mental abuse that sticks with you when
your parent says I wish I had never had you You're
nothing to me. You're just a paycheck get in
your room things like that You never get away
from so you have to Build yourself up somehow
because she's not going to or or that maybe it's
maybe it's your dad doing it Maybe you don't
even live today. Maybe it's an uncle like you
say Hey, maybe the uncle doesn't want to help
you because he could give us less what you're
doing or what you're going through you can get
through it, however, you decide you're gonna
get through it and a lot of us go to music or
art or Movies, I don't know but if you can relate
to something and you can dust yourself off and
stand back up Then you can get through anything
with that and just remember that you know because
The best person though the person that will never
let you down Looks at you in the mirror in the
mirror every day that person's never gonna let
you down that guy or that gal You can always
rely on that person So if it's gonna be it's
up to me and you guys can do that, too And I
know we got way off topic of music, but music
I love it the music does this the music does
this to us you know and Metal community is one
of the best. I've been in rock shows. I've been
at country shows even, which are weird for me
because I'm not really in the country. But metal
shows, these people, the camaraderie, the manners,
the civility of people in a metal show, people
don't expect that. They think, oh, you people
are just rowdy Satan worshiping, you know, weirdos
and whatever. And I'm like, have you ever been
to a metal show? People are really cool. probably
even more polite and well spoken than some of
these rock shows that you hear about like people
have been trampled to death at a Pearl Jam show
okay I don't remember anybody being killed at
a Metallica show and they're much much bigger
so there's that right so we have a great community
the metal community I think is misrepresented
by people who don't understand us and don't want
to understand us just want to assume they think
they know who we are I agree. I go to quite a
few shows now by myself, and sometimes people
ask me, really? I mean, I don't know if I could
do that. I'm thinking, do what? I mean, it's
just speaking about the community. And this is
true. Other people go see jazz or other forms
of music by themselves and enjoy taking that
in. But the metal community is real. And when
you walk in, to a venue like this and I hope
I'm speaking to someone who's kind of on the
fence and they'd like to see the four horsemen
and they see that they're coming to their town
in a few weeks and they're thinking I don't know
I don't I don't ever really do that might feel
out of place no you won't it's uh you'll you'll
feel welcome and you'll see more people like
you than you think you will and uh and once the
music starts trust me on this one you won't regret
it Sean I have kept you way too long. I appreciate
the time you spent I can't wait to see you guys
play tonight how do you all the traveling and
you're probably Not getting the sleep all the
time that you'd like to get Do you have a diet
that you stick to do you how do y 'all keep doing
this and I think If anybody's out there wanting
to hear the answer to this The answer is passion.
It doesn't matter what you're going through.
It doesn't matter what people say is possible
for you. I'll answer the diet. We try to pack,
I try to pack, sandwiches, chicken, salads, hard
-boiled eggs. I pack a cooler. I try to make
that last as long as I can. We do go to Cracker
Barrel, like that's a religious thing for us,
right? Actually, for us, well three of us, we
all eat pretty clean when we do our breakfast.
It's a couple eggs, the sirloin steak, tomato
slices, right? That was breakfast this morning.
And when you're out in the road like this, you're
not making the money that Metallica's making,
believe me. People think, oh, you guys are making
so much, we're not making all that much money.
And there's a lot of expenses, because we're
in Pensacola tonight. I drove from Akron, Ohio
last night to get down to Birmingham, Alabama.
And my hometown is Cleveland, Ohio, but I live
in Akron about an hour south of Cleveland right
now. And yeah, so we drove like 12 hours yesterday.
Oh, yeah, do you okay? All right. Well, we were
there last night sleeping at a red roof in So
then we drove down here today and that's when
I had all the problems with my one of my tires
Kept going low. So I've got a valve stem. That's
got a tear in it, but we're gonna make it to
Texas tomorrow So anybody listening for the Texas
show tomorrow, we will be there. I don't care
come hell or high water. We will be there But
you know, yeah, we travel a lot and you just
have to have that mindset that this is what you
do you know we make enough money everybody works
on the side you know not like full -time regular
jobs but we all have had full -time regular jobs
I mean before I did this I worked in factory
I worked in recycling I was a garbage man literally
I drove tow motor I sheeted plastics in a sheeting
factory I did all kinds of stuff and then I none
of that worked out while I was writing my three
albums and then I said okay I'm gonna cut my
hair off and go back to school I got an IT degree
I started an IT company did that so I mean we're
regular people I didn't grow up like Kirk Hammett
only having a fast food job for a year and then
I went to be a rock superstar legend for the
rest of my life. We don't live that way, you
know, we're regular people that want to spread
joy. And that, I think, that passion is the thing
that drives us to drive, literally, all over
the freaking country. We want people to experience
what it was like when Metallica was young and
pissed off and broke and hungry. And they're
not, I mean, James has even said, he goes, I
don't write like that anymore because I'm not
pissed off. I'm not broke. I'm not angry anymore.
And he's a very, very wealthy individual. And
I don't begrudge him any of his successes. He's
had his ups and downs. I think he was recently
divorced, maybe a year or two ago. That's got
to be hard. It's got to be hard. Plus, you don't
know what's going to happen with that. He had
a wife and beautiful kids, and it tears at the
fabric of who you are. So he's a human being
as well, and he's had his hardships. So I don't
begrudge him for being wealthy. That's just one
thing, because millions of us latched onto his
music. And some of us, it literally saved our
lives. And it's like, how do you repay somebody?
And all I can think of is honor the music. Do
the music to the best of your ability and never
half -ass it like my dad said. Give them a show.
So we will kick your ass if you come to the show
because I think that's what you need. And I think
that's what people expect. I don't care if it's
$20. I don't care if it's $15. I don't care if
it's $50. If you come to one of our shows, you're
not going to go home disappointed. We're going
to give you everything we got. And I think every
band should do that, because without the fans,
Led Zeppelin wouldn't even be famous. Metallica
wouldn't be famous. ACDC. Name a band. I don't
care what the name of the band is, if the fans
didn't show up to see them at the local clubs,
at the regional level, at the national and international
level. They would never have the wealth or the
fame or anything that they have if it wasn't
for people like us. So that's what I always remember
is remember your roots. Don't ever get snotty.
Don't ever think you're a rock star. Just be
a person because I know what it's like to be
out in that crowd and just be blown away by a
show. And that's what I want to give people.
Well, Sean, thank you for your dedication to
your craft, for what you do with the Four Horsemen.
your performance but really man in this conversation
I had no idea we were going to cover all this
but thank you for not giving up on yourself for
not quitting considering where you came from
and what you went through and still finding something
to hold on to to fuel that drive because here
you are tonight getting ready to make memories
for A lot of people that they'll leave here tonight
driving home grinning ear to ear their necks
hurting there mine was the last show and What
a great thing you're doing out there folks go
to? www .forhorses .me is that correct is the
website if you're on Facebook for F -o -u -r
not the number four the word for four horses
dot me and If you're on Facebook, just look up
the four horsemen Metallica and you'll land on
the page, get all the updates and be sure to
comment if you're, you know, we do want you to
put the devices down from time to time. But if
you're checking out, if you had a great time
at the gig, put a comment on there. Thank you
so much, Sean, for your time tonight. And I can't
wait to see you guys on stage. Hey, if you love
that episode, tell a friend about it. I always
appreciate you downloading and subscribing to
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