WEBVTT 00:00:04.339 --> 00:00:07.379 You're listening to a stage talk titled Monitoring 00:00:07.379 --> 00:00:10.720 Violence in Myanmar with Bellingcat's Pooja Chaudhuri. 00:00:11.419 --> 00:00:13.980 Pooja reminded us of the complexity of reporting 00:00:13.980 --> 00:00:16.980 on a region such as Myanmar and gave advice based 00:00:16.980 --> 00:00:19.879 on her own experiences researching Rakhine states. 00:00:20.329 --> 00:00:22.730 You can find links to all the resources mentioned 00:00:22.730 --> 00:00:25.030 on the talk in the podcast description. This 00:00:25.030 --> 00:00:27.390 talk was hosted by me, Charlotte Maher, on Thursday 00:00:27.390 --> 00:00:31.050 the 28th of May, 2026, in the Bellingcat Discord 00:00:31.050 --> 00:00:48.100 server. I think we should get started. Welcome 00:00:48.100 --> 00:00:50.500 to this week's State Talk. Today we're joined 00:00:50.500 --> 00:00:53.740 by my wonderful colleague and talented researcher, 00:00:53.979 --> 00:00:57.119 Pooja Chaudhuri. Pooja specialises in human rights 00:00:57.119 --> 00:01:00.380 and conflict reporting. For the last three years, 00:01:00.399 --> 00:01:02.759 she's been monitoring developments in Myanmar 00:01:02.759 --> 00:01:06.120 via open sources, plotting evidence of the destruction 00:01:06.120 --> 00:01:08.859 of villages and reporting on airstrikes and violence. 00:01:09.340 --> 00:01:12.379 In her latest, published yesterday, she identified 00:01:12.379 --> 00:01:16.159 115 villages in Rakhine State as partially or 00:01:16.159 --> 00:01:18.719 completely destroyed since the February 2021 00:01:18.719 --> 00:01:22.140 military coup that overthrew Myanmar's democratically 00:01:22.140 --> 00:01:25.920 elected government. Today we'll hear more about 00:01:25.920 --> 00:01:28.719 that work, the tools, methods and skills involved 00:01:28.719 --> 00:01:32.099 in ongoing monitoring and why open source research 00:01:32.099 --> 00:01:34.980 can be so valuable in regions facing conflict 00:01:34.980 --> 00:01:38.400 and upheaval like Myanmar. We will have time 00:01:38.400 --> 00:01:40.840 for audience questions. You can place your questions 00:01:40.840 --> 00:01:43.400 in the chat accessible on the right -hand corner 00:01:43.400 --> 00:01:46.340 of your screen. But please remember, especially 00:01:46.340 --> 00:01:49.439 if this is your first stage talk, that this is 00:01:49.439 --> 00:01:52.060 being audio recorded for our podcast series. 00:01:52.439 --> 00:01:54.540 So if you don't want me to mention your username, 00:01:54.760 --> 00:01:57.340 please add that as a note in your question and 00:01:57.340 --> 00:02:01.340 I will absolutely avoid doing that. Okay. Pooja, 00:02:01.420 --> 00:02:04.620 tell us a little bit more about your investigation, 00:02:04.659 --> 00:02:08.280 please. Like Charlie said, I've been looking 00:02:08.280 --> 00:02:13.240 at Myanmar for a few years now. But just to clarify, 00:02:13.479 --> 00:02:16.379 it's a big country. Different regions, different 00:02:16.379 --> 00:02:22.300 states have their own issues. And I am not an 00:02:22.300 --> 00:02:26.219 expert on Myanmar in any way, but I have focused 00:02:26.219 --> 00:02:30.060 the past few months looking at Rakhine. And the 00:02:30.060 --> 00:02:32.479 issues that Rakhine faces would be different 00:02:32.479 --> 00:02:37.240 from other states in Myanmar. because the country 00:02:37.240 --> 00:02:40.280 has a lot of armed ethnic groups trying to fight 00:02:40.280 --> 00:02:45.240 the military and trying to gain control of their 00:02:45.240 --> 00:02:50.939 respective states. The focus of my story was 00:02:50.939 --> 00:02:54.479 looking at what happened in the last five years 00:02:54.479 --> 00:02:59.860 in Rakhine since the 2021 coup. And it's already 00:02:59.860 --> 00:03:03.680 reported a lot that the military does airstrikes. 00:03:03.949 --> 00:03:07.750 and tries to bomb civilian areas as well. But 00:03:07.750 --> 00:03:11.870 what I wanted to see is what happens to villages 00:03:11.870 --> 00:03:16.569 and towns once they are attacked? Is there redevelopment? 00:03:16.789 --> 00:03:19.930 If the armed groups are taking control of a certain 00:03:19.930 --> 00:03:23.430 area, what happens to that area? Are people able 00:03:23.430 --> 00:03:29.490 to return back? And also, do settlements get 00:03:29.490 --> 00:03:33.419 completely erased once they are bombed? lots 00:03:33.419 --> 00:03:36.680 of questions I had while trying to do this research. 00:03:37.139 --> 00:03:40.379 It's very difficult to find answers to most of 00:03:40.379 --> 00:03:44.879 these questions because of the tight grip of 00:03:44.879 --> 00:03:48.219 the military in Myanmar and the tight grip of 00:03:48.219 --> 00:03:53.539 the Arakanami in areas that it controls. To briefly 00:03:53.539 --> 00:03:56.900 tell everyone about what is happening in Rakhine 00:03:56.900 --> 00:04:02.740 is... So the military is fighting this ethnic 00:04:02.740 --> 00:04:05.759 armed group called the Arakan Army. Ethnic armed 00:04:05.759 --> 00:04:09.539 groups are based in different states in the whole 00:04:09.539 --> 00:04:12.560 of the country, and Arakan Army is the one that 00:04:12.560 --> 00:04:17.199 is based in Rakhine. Why I looked specifically 00:04:17.199 --> 00:04:23.240 at Rakhine is for two reasons. One is that Arakan 00:04:23.240 --> 00:04:25.600 Army has been able to take over most of the state 00:04:25.600 --> 00:04:29.449 from the military. Rakhine has 17 townships and 00:04:29.449 --> 00:04:32.790 the Arakanami right now controls 14 of those 00:04:32.790 --> 00:04:35.850 townships. So there are three which are not in 00:04:35.850 --> 00:04:40.490 control of Arakanami yet. And the armed group 00:04:40.490 --> 00:04:43.949 has vowed to take over the state by next year. 00:04:44.589 --> 00:04:46.970 Whether or not that will happen, time will tell. 00:04:47.129 --> 00:04:50.850 But a lot of the fighting currently is concentrated 00:04:50.850 --> 00:04:55.250 in the townships that the Arakanami or AA hasn't 00:04:55.250 --> 00:04:59.899 been able to take over. So because of the progress 00:04:59.899 --> 00:05:02.680 that the AA has made in Rakhine, I wanted to 00:05:02.680 --> 00:05:05.779 look at it. And the second was the civilians 00:05:05.779 --> 00:05:09.860 in Rakhine, mainly the Rohingya, face attacks 00:05:09.860 --> 00:05:12.459 from both sides. So both from the military and 00:05:12.459 --> 00:05:19.480 from the AA. And why that is, is because the 00:05:19.480 --> 00:05:23.379 military does forced recruitment of Rohingya 00:05:23.379 --> 00:05:28.569 to fight on its behalf. And what happens is that 00:05:28.569 --> 00:05:32.230 if an area is attacked by the military, along 00:05:32.230 --> 00:05:35.170 with Rohingya militia, there are retaliation 00:05:35.170 --> 00:05:38.329 attacks from the Arakanami. And then they target 00:05:38.329 --> 00:05:42.089 Rohingya villages and Rohingya towns. So the 00:05:42.089 --> 00:05:46.449 civilians face attacks from both sides. And this 00:05:46.449 --> 00:05:50.149 has also been reported since the military started 00:05:50.149 --> 00:05:53.209 losing a lot of territory to the Arakanami. they 00:05:53.209 --> 00:05:57.250 increased the force conscription of Rohingya. 00:05:57.529 --> 00:06:03.129 And in 2024, which we also reported on this attack 00:06:03.129 --> 00:06:07.209 that happened in a township called Bhutidong. 00:06:07.410 --> 00:06:11.670 And Bhutidong is one of the two townships that 00:06:11.670 --> 00:06:14.209 has the largest Rohingya population of the country. 00:06:14.949 --> 00:06:19.129 And this township was first attacked by the military 00:06:19.129 --> 00:06:23.529 and Rohingya militants and then in retaliation, 00:06:23.670 --> 00:06:25.930 the Arakanami then attack the township. And if 00:06:25.930 --> 00:06:30.350 you see satellite imagery of lots of areas of 00:06:30.350 --> 00:06:33.750 the main town, which shares the name of the township, 00:06:33.769 --> 00:06:36.870 Puthidong, and neighboring villages, you'll see 00:06:36.870 --> 00:06:41.290 that a lot of it just looks burned. So this is 00:06:41.290 --> 00:06:43.750 what I wanted to focus on. I wanted to find out 00:06:43.750 --> 00:06:48.430 how many villages have been destroyed, both by 00:06:48.430 --> 00:06:52.100 the AA and the military, although Because reporting 00:06:52.100 --> 00:06:54.720 is so difficult in Myanmar for a lot of villages, 00:06:56.040 --> 00:06:58.540 you will not be able to tell who did the attack. 00:06:59.439 --> 00:07:06.160 You can make good assumptions based on the kind 00:07:06.160 --> 00:07:08.759 of attacks, because if it's a heavily civilian 00:07:08.759 --> 00:07:11.860 area, the military is more prone to doing attacks. 00:07:12.339 --> 00:07:16.300 The military also has more air power than a Rakan 00:07:16.300 --> 00:07:20.620 army. So there can be informed assumptions about 00:07:20.620 --> 00:07:23.420 who carried on an attack, depending on when it 00:07:23.420 --> 00:07:25.399 took place and what it looks like on satellite 00:07:25.399 --> 00:07:30.100 imagery. But the story does not say for a lot 00:07:30.100 --> 00:07:32.259 of the villages who did the attacks because there 00:07:32.259 --> 00:07:37.639 is no reporting. So how I found areas that have 00:07:37.639 --> 00:07:42.199 had large scale destruction is the methodology. 00:07:42.439 --> 00:07:44.259 It took me a while to figure out the methodology 00:07:44.259 --> 00:07:47.480 because you know, due to lack of reporting, and 00:07:47.480 --> 00:07:50.120 I wasn't sure where to look at. And it's very 00:07:50.120 --> 00:07:53.740 rural, the villages are tiny, like, you know, 00:07:53.779 --> 00:07:55.720 some have like 50 homes, some have 10 homes, 00:07:55.779 --> 00:07:58.959 some have 80 homes, and they're very spread out. 00:07:59.240 --> 00:08:02.459 So it's difficult to know where you should be 00:08:02.459 --> 00:08:05.939 looking at. And there is lack of updated satellite 00:08:05.939 --> 00:08:11.920 imaging. So the sources that I refer to were, 00:08:12.579 --> 00:08:16.939 one was Accolade, which has conflict data, and 00:08:16.939 --> 00:08:20.060 it's very easy to use. I can show how I used 00:08:20.060 --> 00:08:23.500 Acklid. So you can download data from Acklid. 00:08:25.600 --> 00:08:28.720 So when you download the data, it will give you 00:08:28.720 --> 00:08:31.259 a CSV file, which would also have coordinates. 00:08:31.439 --> 00:08:34.659 It will not have coordinates of the exact point 00:08:34.659 --> 00:08:36.440 where an attack took place, but it would have 00:08:36.440 --> 00:08:38.820 coordinates of the area. So if a village was 00:08:38.820 --> 00:08:41.519 attacked, it would have coordinates of the village 00:08:41.519 --> 00:08:45.700 that was attacked. And then you can, if you have, 00:08:45.820 --> 00:08:48.460 if the tag was big enough, you know, you'll be 00:08:48.460 --> 00:08:50.279 able to see the destruction and satellite imagery. 00:08:50.360 --> 00:08:54.779 If not, then there could be video or images of 00:08:54.779 --> 00:08:56.200 that village being attacked and then you can 00:08:56.200 --> 00:09:00.399 do geolocation. So I used Ackler, I used NASA 00:09:00.399 --> 00:09:04.179 firms. If the fire is big enough, then it would 00:09:04.179 --> 00:09:07.039 show up on NASA firms and then you get an area 00:09:07.039 --> 00:09:11.240 of where, you know, fire was detected and then 00:09:11.240 --> 00:09:15.769 you can see if the destruction was also captured, 00:09:15.789 --> 00:09:17.970 if it was not enough to be captured on satellite 00:09:17.970 --> 00:09:23.470 image. The third was looking at just news reports 00:09:23.470 --> 00:09:28.049 and including on social media. There are media 00:09:28.049 --> 00:09:30.309 organizations that just operate out of Facebook 00:09:30.309 --> 00:09:34.210 and just checking what they have been reporting 00:09:34.210 --> 00:09:39.769 on. And of course, the fourth was just lurking 00:09:39.769 --> 00:09:43.429 in planet and I spent hours and hours just like 00:09:43.429 --> 00:09:47.490 looking at different townships and just like 00:09:47.490 --> 00:09:51.529 seeing which one has the most updated satellite 00:09:51.529 --> 00:09:56.110 imagery and then just being sort of like a satellite 00:09:56.110 --> 00:09:59.690 yourself and trying to see what this area looks 00:09:59.690 --> 00:10:02.309 like versus this area looks like. So that's how 00:10:02.309 --> 00:10:06.799 I got the data for the story. And what I found, 00:10:06.860 --> 00:10:09.220 I think the most interesting finding in the story 00:10:09.220 --> 00:10:13.379 was from this township called Mangdao, which 00:10:13.379 --> 00:10:18.700 is next to Butidong. And Mangdao and Butidong 00:10:18.700 --> 00:10:23.980 has the most number of Rohingya population in 00:10:23.980 --> 00:10:27.620 the country. And I saw that there were villages 00:10:27.620 --> 00:10:31.340 that I could see on planet on Mangdao. And I 00:10:31.340 --> 00:10:33.659 could not find the name of those villages, some 00:10:33.659 --> 00:10:37.899 of those villages. on the township map that the 00:10:37.899 --> 00:10:42.059 UN produces. And the UN map is based on data 00:10:42.059 --> 00:10:46.039 from the Myanmar government. So technically those 00:10:46.039 --> 00:10:48.080 maps are from, those are government maps, those 00:10:48.080 --> 00:10:51.240 are official maps. And I saw that some of these 00:10:51.240 --> 00:10:55.259 villages, while I can see that they are marked 00:10:55.259 --> 00:10:59.480 on the planet and they look destroyed, they aren't 00:10:59.480 --> 00:11:04.440 marked on the maps. So I saw that then what is 00:11:04.440 --> 00:11:07.519 happening potentially is that settlements get 00:11:07.519 --> 00:11:12.899 destroyed and then they get officially removed 00:11:12.899 --> 00:11:18.120 from sources. And I spoke to experts about what 00:11:18.120 --> 00:11:21.000 could be the reason behind removing names of 00:11:21.000 --> 00:11:24.080 villages from maps. And the experts told me it 00:11:24.080 --> 00:11:29.019 could be to just erase the identity of the local 00:11:29.019 --> 00:11:32.750 population there. There has been some reporting 00:11:32.750 --> 00:11:37.049 on this when it happened after the 2017 violence 00:11:37.049 --> 00:11:42.289 in Rakhine, the Rohingya genocide. And experts 00:11:42.289 --> 00:11:45.870 then said that it's so that people can't go back 00:11:45.870 --> 00:11:48.429 to their homes. It's not just that the village 00:11:48.429 --> 00:11:54.330 has been completely flattened, but its trace 00:11:54.330 --> 00:11:57.590 has been removed officially. So where do people 00:11:57.590 --> 00:12:02.490 go back to? So I think that was one interesting 00:12:02.490 --> 00:12:05.210 finding and there could be a bigger story there. 00:12:05.409 --> 00:12:07.730 Like I did not spend too much time on finding 00:12:07.730 --> 00:12:11.690 out all the villages that have been removed officially 00:12:11.690 --> 00:12:14.750 from maps, but I did find six or seven of them 00:12:14.750 --> 00:12:18.169 that are no longer from Wangdao that are no longer 00:12:18.169 --> 00:12:22.090 in the latest maps that was released by the UN, 00:12:22.250 --> 00:12:27.620 which is from 2024. Yeah, so that was mainly 00:12:27.620 --> 00:12:32.700 what the focus of the story was. And it also 00:12:32.700 --> 00:12:35.779 speaks about what is currently happening in the 00:12:35.779 --> 00:12:39.559 townships that are not in the control of the 00:12:39.559 --> 00:12:44.340 Arakanami. Data for one of the townships wasn't 00:12:44.340 --> 00:12:47.320 available, but the two townships for which data 00:12:47.320 --> 00:12:52.240 was available is Situwe and Chaupiu. Situwe is 00:12:52.240 --> 00:12:56.879 also the capital. And so the name of the city 00:12:56.879 --> 00:12:58.659 is Sittwe city, which is the capital and it's 00:12:58.659 --> 00:13:01.179 in the township, which is also called Sittwe. 00:13:02.100 --> 00:13:06.659 And so a lot of the fighting is now focused in 00:13:06.659 --> 00:13:10.279 Sittwe. And what we found is that surrounding 00:13:10.279 --> 00:13:12.419 the city, the villages that surround the city, 00:13:12.860 --> 00:13:16.840 they have been cleared and a lot of defense structures 00:13:16.840 --> 00:13:21.059 have been built in place of these villages. and 00:13:21.059 --> 00:13:23.299 the expert that we spoke to said that this is 00:13:23.299 --> 00:13:25.700 so that it becomes difficult for the Arakanami 00:13:25.700 --> 00:13:30.159 to advance into the city. Sittwe also holds thousands 00:13:30.159 --> 00:13:33.799 of people who have taken refuge in the city fleeing 00:13:33.799 --> 00:13:38.299 from other parts of Rakhine. So taking over Sittwe 00:13:38.299 --> 00:13:42.159 would mean whether the Arakanami is able to take 00:13:42.159 --> 00:13:44.639 over or whether the military is able to retain 00:13:44.639 --> 00:13:48.779 control. It doesn't look good for the civilian 00:13:48.779 --> 00:13:51.639 population there because whatever side wins or 00:13:51.639 --> 00:13:58.779 loses, there is going to be loss of life. And 00:13:58.779 --> 00:14:01.220 Situwe is difficult for the Arakanami to take 00:14:01.220 --> 00:14:03.960 over because it's surrounded by water on three 00:14:03.960 --> 00:14:08.580 sides and the Arakanami does not have naval capabilities. 00:14:09.179 --> 00:14:14.309 Same with Chaopiu. It's an island. it's going 00:14:14.309 --> 00:14:16.909 to be difficult and challenging for their economy 00:14:16.909 --> 00:14:19.889 to advance there because of lack of naval capabilities. 00:14:20.529 --> 00:14:23.710 These areas, experts told us, also has jamming 00:14:23.710 --> 00:14:25.870 technology. So our economy, they do have some 00:14:25.870 --> 00:14:29.389 drones, but it's possible that the military would 00:14:29.389 --> 00:14:34.049 jam them. And both Situ Wei and Chaopiao are 00:14:34.049 --> 00:14:38.250 very important because they have foreign investments, 00:14:38.309 --> 00:14:41.399 both India and China have. invested in infrastructure 00:14:41.399 --> 00:14:45.120 projects there. And if the Rakanami is able to 00:14:45.120 --> 00:14:47.120 take over both those regions, it would also give 00:14:47.120 --> 00:14:51.179 them some diplomatic advantage, you know, because 00:14:51.179 --> 00:14:53.220 then this is an arm -glue which will be able 00:14:53.220 --> 00:14:57.899 to negotiate potentially with governments of 00:14:57.899 --> 00:15:05.960 neighboring countries. So lots of important issues 00:15:05.960 --> 00:15:08.460 happening in Rakhine and we'll see what happens 00:15:08.460 --> 00:15:11.679 next year. If the EA is able to take over, it 00:15:11.679 --> 00:15:15.019 would be the first armed group that has taken 00:15:15.019 --> 00:15:18.860 over a capital. When I say it weighs the capital, 00:15:18.899 --> 00:15:20.580 it's the capital of Rakhine. It's the capital 00:15:20.580 --> 00:15:25.580 of the state of the country. Yeah, so that was 00:15:25.580 --> 00:15:29.820 mainly the research and my colleague and co -author, 00:15:30.059 --> 00:15:33.860 Miguel. made a scroll for the story just to explain 00:15:33.860 --> 00:15:36.740 what's happening and show visually how the areas 00:15:36.740 --> 00:15:44.440 look. And even if a certain area has a destruction 00:15:44.440 --> 00:15:49.440 which is large enough, we don't need high -resolution 00:15:49.440 --> 00:15:51.559 satellite image. You can still tell with mid 00:15:51.559 --> 00:15:54.019 -resolution satellite image. Google Earth, in 00:15:54.019 --> 00:15:57.480 this case, was very useful because Google Earth 00:15:57.480 --> 00:16:02.059 had a lot of imagery. The timeline was big enough. 00:16:02.220 --> 00:16:05.639 It was five years. So Google Earth also had a 00:16:05.639 --> 00:16:09.220 lot of imagery that we could rely on. And the 00:16:09.220 --> 00:16:12.440 story also includes images from Google Earth. 00:16:13.820 --> 00:16:18.460 That was quite a long brief for the story. No, 00:16:18.460 --> 00:16:21.240 I appreciate it. It's really useful to hear it 00:16:21.240 --> 00:16:23.960 from your perspective and hear the methodology 00:16:23.960 --> 00:16:26.080 as well and the obstacles that you've faced. 00:16:26.419 --> 00:16:29.580 I've put in the chats, the links that were mentioned, 00:16:29.879 --> 00:16:33.379 including the link to yesterday's article, the 00:16:33.379 --> 00:16:38.320 2024 article that was mentioned, ACLED, NASA 00:16:38.320 --> 00:16:40.740 firms, which you mentioned. And I've also put 00:16:40.740 --> 00:16:44.700 in links to spaces within this server where you 00:16:44.700 --> 00:16:46.759 can talk about some of the things mentioned, 00:16:47.220 --> 00:16:50.159 including the specific munitions and the region. 00:16:51.279 --> 00:16:53.879 So please do check out those spaces if you want 00:16:53.879 --> 00:16:56.840 to continue the conversation here. I wanted to 00:16:56.840 --> 00:16:59.950 start off the question and answer. portion of 00:16:59.950 --> 00:17:03.309 this talk. And again, please feel free to put 00:17:03.309 --> 00:17:06.630 in the chat if you have any questions for Pooja. 00:17:07.049 --> 00:17:10.069 I wanted to ask what makes reporting and verification 00:17:10.069 --> 00:17:13.769 particularly difficult in that region? You wrote 00:17:13.769 --> 00:17:16.710 in the article that evidence is often slow to 00:17:16.710 --> 00:17:23.069 emerge. How does that delay and affect verification 00:17:23.069 --> 00:17:29.740 workflows and public understanding? Yeah, so 00:17:29.740 --> 00:17:33.240 I think accountability becomes difficult because 00:17:33.240 --> 00:17:35.579 there's only so much you can do with open source 00:17:35.579 --> 00:17:38.839 reporting. The Human Rights Watch recently published, 00:17:39.000 --> 00:17:42.819 I think last week published a report on what 00:17:42.819 --> 00:17:46.059 happened in this village in Rakhine, which is 00:17:46.059 --> 00:17:48.680 in Bhutidong. I'm not going to try to pronounce 00:17:48.680 --> 00:17:51.079 the village, just the name of the village. But 00:17:51.079 --> 00:17:56.619 according to Human Rights Watch investigation, 00:17:58.140 --> 00:18:01.019 170 Rohingya men, women and children were killed 00:18:01.019 --> 00:18:05.380 by the Rakanami last year in April, May. I briefly 00:18:05.380 --> 00:18:08.319 spoke about what happened in Bhutanang in April, 00:18:08.319 --> 00:18:13.279 May last year. And this village was also part 00:18:13.279 --> 00:18:16.299 of at least 40 villages that were targeted then. 00:18:17.480 --> 00:18:20.539 And I mean, we knew what had happened. We knew 00:18:20.539 --> 00:18:24.539 that the first attack The township was first 00:18:24.539 --> 00:18:26.740 attacked by the military and Rohingya militants. 00:18:26.960 --> 00:18:29.599 And later on, in retaliation attacks, the Arabian 00:18:29.599 --> 00:18:35.240 army just burned down large parts of the township. 00:18:36.839 --> 00:18:42.599 But there was denial from the Arabian army that 00:18:42.599 --> 00:18:44.720 they did not target civilian areas. They said 00:18:44.720 --> 00:18:49.240 that they targeted military soldiers and they 00:18:49.240 --> 00:18:53.880 targeted Rohingya militants. But it took more 00:18:53.880 --> 00:18:58.000 than a year for this report to come out because 00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:01.059 people who were displaced, the Human Rights Watch 00:19:01.059 --> 00:19:05.420 spoke to them in Bangladesh when they reached 00:19:05.420 --> 00:19:09.759 the shelters. Lots of Rohingya asylum seekers 00:19:09.759 --> 00:19:13.279 are in Bangladesh. So they did ground reporting, 00:19:13.460 --> 00:19:15.420 they spoke to witnesses, and then they were able 00:19:15.420 --> 00:19:18.140 to... There's satellite imagery of the village 00:19:18.140 --> 00:19:22.589 that shows that... shows that it has been attacked. 00:19:24.730 --> 00:19:27.549 But there were no confirmed, you know, witness 00:19:27.549 --> 00:19:32.309 reports. And so it takes a lot of time for accountability, 00:19:32.470 --> 00:19:35.069 some sort of accountability to happen. And that 00:19:35.069 --> 00:19:37.130 is, like I said, so only so much you can do with 00:19:37.130 --> 00:19:43.490 open source reporting. The way a village or a 00:19:43.490 --> 00:19:46.769 town is attacked gives some ideas, idea about 00:19:46.769 --> 00:19:52.480 who is behind the attack. And there is some reporting 00:19:52.480 --> 00:19:56.680 that happens by, you know, tiny media organizations 00:19:56.680 --> 00:20:00.759 that still exist. But a lot of journalists from 00:20:00.759 --> 00:20:04.000 Myanmar are in exile and a lot of them operate 00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:08.079 from Thailand. So most journalists or a lot of 00:20:08.079 --> 00:20:10.859 journalists that are reporting on Rakhine or 00:20:10.859 --> 00:20:14.240 in Myanmar or sorry, on Myanmar, they're doing 00:20:14.240 --> 00:20:19.519 it not from the country. And so reporting just 00:20:19.519 --> 00:20:22.799 takes time. And it's not an area which is covered 00:20:22.799 --> 00:20:27.319 a lot by satellite imagery. So the reports are 00:20:27.319 --> 00:20:30.420 sort of delayed. What is happening right now, 00:20:30.519 --> 00:20:33.579 you may be able to report on it a few months 00:20:33.579 --> 00:20:36.500 from now, once the satellite images are more 00:20:36.500 --> 00:20:42.440 updated. But I think one good way to report on 00:20:42.440 --> 00:20:46.809 it is to, again, look at the overview. of what's 00:20:46.809 --> 00:20:51.390 happening by looking at data from Accolade. Like 00:20:51.390 --> 00:20:55.190 how I would research Myanmar, Accolade would 00:20:55.190 --> 00:20:58.109 do it in the same way. Like refer to news reports, 00:20:58.269 --> 00:21:00.750 refer to social media and try to collect the 00:21:00.750 --> 00:21:04.609 data and give it in a more organized way. There 00:21:04.609 --> 00:21:08.470 aren't links to the reports, but you can look 00:21:08.470 --> 00:21:11.049 them up. They have like description of what happened 00:21:11.049 --> 00:21:12.910 in a certain village. So it will give you an 00:21:12.910 --> 00:21:16.539 idea of what's happening. But yeah, it's a difficult 00:21:16.539 --> 00:21:21.519 region to report on just because it's under -reported 00:21:21.519 --> 00:21:25.400 and it's not covered as much by satellite image. 00:21:26.019 --> 00:21:31.099 But if you want to, say, report on what happened 00:21:31.099 --> 00:21:34.700 to the villages that were destroyed during the 00:21:34.700 --> 00:21:38.799 Rohingya genocide in 2017, Google Earth would 00:21:38.799 --> 00:21:41.319 be good enough for that reporting. You can go 00:21:41.319 --> 00:21:44.019 and look at imagery on Google Earth and try to 00:21:44.019 --> 00:21:46.660 see what happened to those villages. Is there 00:21:46.660 --> 00:21:53.019 redevelopment? Is there barren land? Like I said, 00:21:53.200 --> 00:21:57.559 in Situwe, the military cleared villages to build 00:21:57.559 --> 00:22:01.240 defense installations. Are there defense installations 00:22:01.240 --> 00:22:04.819 in those villages that were destroyed back in 00:22:04.819 --> 00:22:07.700 2017? What do they look like now? Are they still 00:22:07.700 --> 00:22:11.640 on maps? So lots of things that you can do, going 00:22:11.640 --> 00:22:14.380 back in time and seeing what is the condition 00:22:14.380 --> 00:22:17.000 right now. So I think one way to report on it 00:22:17.000 --> 00:22:20.339 is just it requires a bit of, I think, patience. 00:22:20.500 --> 00:22:24.119 It's because you don't have as much as you would 00:22:24.119 --> 00:22:27.039 want in terms of satellite image. But there are 00:22:27.039 --> 00:22:30.059 other avenues. And sometimes a disruption is 00:22:30.059 --> 00:22:32.960 large enough to. look at mid resolution or low 00:22:32.960 --> 00:22:35.119 resolution, which is more updated satellite image 00:22:35.119 --> 00:22:38.599 than high resolution. I guess the difficulty 00:22:38.599 --> 00:22:41.279 of reporting on this region really highlights 00:22:41.279 --> 00:22:44.500 why it's important to report on this region because 00:22:44.500 --> 00:22:49.519 there's probably less eyes and less people attempting 00:22:49.519 --> 00:22:53.119 to do it. And that doesn't mean that these areas 00:22:53.119 --> 00:22:57.730 don't deserve that kind of investigation. In 00:22:57.730 --> 00:23:00.190 regards to the data that you've been talking 00:23:00.190 --> 00:23:02.890 about, we had a question earlier about removal 00:23:02.890 --> 00:23:06.690 of data. You mentioned that one of the townships 00:23:06.690 --> 00:23:11.569 you didn't have data for, was that data removed 00:23:11.569 --> 00:23:14.049 and what kinds of evidence tend to disappear 00:23:14.049 --> 00:23:18.509 fastest from your experience? What should researchers 00:23:18.509 --> 00:23:23.170 prioritize preserving when researching Rakhine 00:23:23.170 --> 00:23:27.819 State and in other areas in Myanmar? The data 00:23:27.819 --> 00:23:31.079 for the township that was not available, it's 00:23:31.079 --> 00:23:35.019 called, the approximate pronunciation is Manong. 00:23:35.460 --> 00:23:38.079 It's a very small island and I don't think it 00:23:38.079 --> 00:23:41.880 has a lot of villages, very few. So because it's 00:23:41.880 --> 00:23:43.880 an island, it's not covered that much by satellite 00:23:43.880 --> 00:23:47.259 image. There's less reporting. It's kind of, 00:23:47.259 --> 00:23:51.309 it's sort of isolated. And because of how small 00:23:51.309 --> 00:23:53.769 it is, I think that's probably why the data is 00:23:53.769 --> 00:23:55.890 not available. When I say data not available, 00:23:55.950 --> 00:23:58.170 I mean, actually didn't have data for that township. 00:23:58.789 --> 00:24:01.190 It's possible, multiple reasons, maybe nothing 00:24:01.190 --> 00:24:02.890 actually happened there. That's why the data 00:24:02.890 --> 00:24:07.950 is not there. Or, you know, like, it's just not 00:24:07.950 --> 00:24:11.329 there because it's kind of isolated. I don't 00:24:11.329 --> 00:24:15.710 think there was any possible removal of data 00:24:15.710 --> 00:24:18.079 in that township. It's just... It's just not 00:24:18.079 --> 00:24:22.980 there. It's very small. Your second question 00:24:22.980 --> 00:24:28.099 about what should be preserved? I think one thing 00:24:28.099 --> 00:24:30.220 that I noticed when I was doing this research 00:24:30.220 --> 00:24:35.460 is I was looking at the township maps that are 00:24:35.460 --> 00:24:38.940 released by the UN and I was looking at the 2024 00:24:38.940 --> 00:24:45.920 maps. And I did want to do a comparison between 00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:50.859 how the map maps looked whenever they released 00:24:50.859 --> 00:24:53.599 the previous map. Probably, I think they released 00:24:53.599 --> 00:24:58.240 it in 2021. But I couldn't find those maps. So 00:24:58.240 --> 00:25:00.819 right now, the 2024 maps are there. It would 00:25:00.819 --> 00:25:04.579 be a good idea to archive them, save them locally, 00:25:04.819 --> 00:25:07.359 so that when the new maps are released, you can 00:25:07.359 --> 00:25:10.920 then refer to the new map and see what is the 00:25:10.920 --> 00:25:14.119 change in those two maps. And then that might 00:25:14.119 --> 00:25:19.099 be given an idea. of what has been, the villages 00:25:19.099 --> 00:25:21.980 that have been removed. And then you can see 00:25:21.980 --> 00:25:24.599 that, okay, what happened here? Why are these 00:25:24.599 --> 00:25:28.680 villages removed? And it would be a fairly simple 00:25:28.680 --> 00:25:30.539 investigation, right? Like if you have names 00:25:30.539 --> 00:25:34.000 of all the villages from 2024, and then you have 00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:35.900 names of all the villages from 2021, you can 00:25:35.900 --> 00:25:38.319 just compare and see what names do not appear. 00:25:38.460 --> 00:25:41.779 And then you can go and check what happened to 00:25:41.779 --> 00:25:44.410 those villages. So I think... That is something, 00:25:44.470 --> 00:25:47.190 there are some previous maps that are available, 00:25:47.450 --> 00:25:49.690 you know, like research gate or like some other 00:25:49.690 --> 00:25:52.049 websites like that, but it's not, you can't search 00:25:52.049 --> 00:25:56.789 them on what is the name of the website. It's 00:25:56.789 --> 00:26:02.009 called the MIMO, the Myanmar information management 00:26:02.009 --> 00:26:05.190 unit. I mean, I can send the link to you. This 00:26:05.190 --> 00:26:09.230 is where you can look at all the maps, township 00:26:09.230 --> 00:26:13.849 maps, but they don't have. it's like a PDF of 00:26:13.849 --> 00:26:20.170 a map. So you still have to like see, like open 00:26:20.170 --> 00:26:22.509 up Google Earth or something, or like plan it 00:26:22.509 --> 00:26:26.930 and try to see where you're looking at. And if 00:26:26.930 --> 00:26:29.630 you have the tech skill of converting, which 00:26:29.630 --> 00:26:34.089 Miguel did for my story, is if you can convert 00:26:34.089 --> 00:26:38.150 the PDF into some sort of GeoJSON or something, 00:26:38.170 --> 00:26:43.150 and then try to like open it up on QGIS or some 00:26:43.150 --> 00:26:48.990 other software that lets you open GeoJSON files, 00:26:49.690 --> 00:26:53.630 then you could potentially use the PDF maps to 00:26:53.630 --> 00:26:58.210 just get the coordinates. How I was doing it 00:26:58.210 --> 00:27:01.289 was very, very time consuming. I was like, okay, 00:27:01.490 --> 00:27:03.589 so the main town is here and then there is a 00:27:03.589 --> 00:27:05.690 village here. And I was like tracking where the 00:27:05.690 --> 00:27:07.910 river is flowing and then seeing, okay, it's 00:27:07.910 --> 00:27:11.630 near this... you know, this village name appears 00:27:11.630 --> 00:27:13.990 next to this river. So I was like going on Google 00:27:13.990 --> 00:27:15.829 Earth and trying to find the river. And it was 00:27:15.829 --> 00:27:18.650 very time consuming, but you could make it easier 00:27:18.650 --> 00:27:21.269 for yourself if you have some tech skills. Um, 00:27:22.190 --> 00:27:25.569 and, uh, yeah, but I guess do archive the maps 00:27:25.569 --> 00:27:28.029 and save them locally if you're interested in 00:27:28.029 --> 00:27:32.369 Myanmar. Get archiving folks. Uh, thank you for 00:27:32.369 --> 00:27:36.190 that tip. Really important to highlight. you 00:27:36.190 --> 00:27:38.910 know, where the gaps in data are and what could 00:27:38.910 --> 00:27:41.789 possibly be important that you might not think 00:27:41.789 --> 00:27:45.190 about immediately. Your piece can combine satellite 00:27:45.190 --> 00:27:48.430 imagery, firms, fire data, accurate data, social 00:27:48.430 --> 00:27:51.130 media, local reporting, as you said. How do you 00:27:51.130 --> 00:27:54.730 decide when there's enough cooperation to confidently 00:27:54.730 --> 00:27:58.930 identify a village as completely destroyed? Like, 00:27:59.130 --> 00:28:04.799 how do you make that editorial call that the 00:28:04.799 --> 00:28:07.559 villages that you're reporting on are completely 00:28:07.559 --> 00:28:10.539 wiped off the map, other than their erasure from 00:28:10.539 --> 00:28:13.599 these government maps. How do you visually tell 00:28:13.599 --> 00:28:18.000 when something is, how do you visually and confidently 00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:21.279 say that these villages have been impacted that 00:28:21.279 --> 00:28:26.400 badly? Yeah, there's no confident way to say 00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:28.559 unless something has been officially removed 00:28:28.559 --> 00:28:34.640 because that it's possible that a village was 00:28:34.640 --> 00:28:39.059 destroyed and then rebuilt later. Unless you 00:28:39.059 --> 00:28:42.380 have the latest available satellite image, you 00:28:42.380 --> 00:28:46.079 don't exactly know what happened there. For a 00:28:46.079 --> 00:28:49.920 lot of the villages, we did have latest satellite 00:28:49.920 --> 00:28:52.140 image, so we were able to tell that currently 00:28:52.140 --> 00:28:55.180 these villages are destroyed. But I think I've 00:28:55.180 --> 00:28:57.809 written in the story as well that At least in 00:28:57.809 --> 00:29:01.410 five villages, we saw that there was signs of 00:29:01.410 --> 00:29:04.369 reconstruction. It's difficult to tell whether 00:29:04.369 --> 00:29:07.690 the reconstruction was for civilian purposes 00:29:07.690 --> 00:29:10.289 or otherwise. They didn't look like defense structures. 00:29:10.329 --> 00:29:16.569 They did look like buildings. But again, it's 00:29:16.569 --> 00:29:19.609 tough. It's tough to exactly say what happened 00:29:19.609 --> 00:29:24.130 somewhere, unless you have latest satellite image. 00:29:24.250 --> 00:29:28.059 And how do you detect something? that looks destroyed. 00:29:29.420 --> 00:29:32.960 I can share my screen. Let me share my screen. 00:29:35.000 --> 00:29:37.339 While you're getting that up, perhaps also while 00:29:37.339 --> 00:29:39.259 you're sharing the screen, it would be really 00:29:39.259 --> 00:29:41.400 interesting to understand, maybe for people who 00:29:41.400 --> 00:29:47.880 aren't used to highlighting when military fortifications 00:29:47.880 --> 00:29:51.019 have appeared in Saas -Wa -Imji, what indicators 00:29:51.019 --> 00:29:53.160 in Saas -Wa -Imji tell you that a civilian settlement 00:29:53.160 --> 00:29:55.680 has become a military position as well? that 00:29:55.680 --> 00:29:57.680 might be something interesting to look at while 00:29:57.680 --> 00:29:59.259 you're, while you're sharing your screen, if 00:29:59.259 --> 00:30:01.799 that's possible. Yeah. Let me, let me talk about 00:30:01.799 --> 00:30:03.640 the military. That's a good question. Like if 00:30:03.640 --> 00:30:09.299 you Google like say trenches from trenches satellite, 00:30:09.700 --> 00:30:13.759 because Myanmar is not unique in this. A lot 00:30:13.759 --> 00:30:17.779 of areas have military installations and structures 00:30:17.779 --> 00:30:21.259 built, right? So if you just like familiarize 00:30:21.259 --> 00:30:25.140 yourself with like how military installations 00:30:25.140 --> 00:30:27.400 would look like then you when you look at a satellite 00:30:27.400 --> 00:30:29.759 image you're like okay you know that that is 00:30:29.759 --> 00:30:32.180 probably what I'm looking at like for instance 00:30:32.180 --> 00:30:36.579 like this those are like sort of like trenches 00:30:36.579 --> 00:30:39.539 and this is what it would look like on satellite 00:30:39.539 --> 00:30:47.380 image like zig zigzag lines or you know like 00:30:47.380 --> 00:30:52.519 something like this has it too like something 00:30:52.519 --> 00:30:57.119 which look has like some sort of a pattern and 00:30:57.119 --> 00:30:59.859 When you're looking at like I think all of us 00:30:59.859 --> 00:31:04.140 have looked at it looked at you know how a place 00:31:04.140 --> 00:31:08.039 looks which has like some sort of a Human settlement 00:31:08.039 --> 00:31:10.559 right there would be houses there would be buildings 00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:14.619 When that is replete by what you know odd patterns 00:31:14.619 --> 00:31:16.700 you know that something happened there were clearance 00:31:16.700 --> 00:31:18.660 operations or like something has happened there, 00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:22.640 but the easiest like way to familiarize yourself 00:31:22.640 --> 00:31:25.000 is just like Google and see how other people 00:31:25.000 --> 00:31:27.660 have reported on it. I didn't know what trenches 00:31:27.660 --> 00:31:31.460 looked like. And I wasn't sure what I was looking 00:31:31.460 --> 00:31:34.240 at. So this is what I did. And I saw that, OK, 00:31:35.019 --> 00:31:37.180 if there are structures like that, these are 00:31:37.180 --> 00:31:40.420 probably like military installations. And then 00:31:40.420 --> 00:31:42.599 you will also be able to see bunkers and things 00:31:42.599 --> 00:31:47.039 like that. So in this story, I'm just going to... 00:31:50.960 --> 00:31:57.720 So this is Sitwe. This entire region is Sitwe, 00:31:57.900 --> 00:32:00.140 the township. And this is Sitwe city, which is 00:32:00.140 --> 00:32:04.420 the capital of Rakhine. And lots of villages 00:32:04.420 --> 00:32:08.460 around the city, we saw that there were some 00:32:08.460 --> 00:32:10.920 sort of clearance operations and they were replaced 00:32:10.920 --> 00:32:16.849 by some of the villages were replaced by defense 00:32:16.849 --> 00:32:20.329 installations, like this one. This village, this 00:32:20.329 --> 00:32:24.849 is what it appeared intact in March 2024 Google 00:32:24.849 --> 00:32:29.289 Earth image. And then later on, we saw that it 00:32:29.289 --> 00:32:34.109 was destroyed. Now, another thing, when you're 00:32:34.109 --> 00:32:38.210 looking at satellite image and you can see buildings 00:32:38.210 --> 00:32:41.910 have been destroyed, you can sort of tell the 00:32:41.910 --> 00:32:45.500 method used to destroy. This does not look like 00:32:45.500 --> 00:32:49.400 some sort of aerial 500 pound bomb dropped because 00:32:49.400 --> 00:32:51.019 then the vegetation would also be destroyed. 00:32:51.180 --> 00:32:55.700 It would look more burnt. Here, you can see that 00:32:55.700 --> 00:33:00.420 specifically the structures itself were destroyed. 00:33:00.599 --> 00:33:03.640 These buildings have been destroyed. It almost 00:33:03.640 --> 00:33:07.460 looks like they were destroyed one by one. You 00:33:07.460 --> 00:33:09.980 can see that the nearby vegetation does not look 00:33:09.980 --> 00:33:13.039 impacted. So you can tell that, okay, maybe this 00:33:13.039 --> 00:33:15.460 was like targeted some sort of clearance operation. 00:33:16.480 --> 00:33:19.460 So this is from 2025 Google Earth image. And 00:33:19.460 --> 00:33:24.059 if you notice here on the side here, there is 00:33:24.059 --> 00:33:27.299 nothing right now in 2024. And when I'm scrolling 00:33:27.299 --> 00:33:31.920 to 2025, there is some sort of those exact lines 00:33:31.920 --> 00:33:34.619 have appeared. So next to the village, there 00:33:34.619 --> 00:33:38.279 has been some military installation. And this 00:33:38.279 --> 00:33:43.069 is again from Google Earth, we saw trenches and 00:33:43.069 --> 00:33:45.730 outposts being built. So something like this, 00:33:46.630 --> 00:33:50.069 if you look at satellite image, this does not 00:33:50.069 --> 00:33:54.650 look like a civilian development, development 00:33:54.650 --> 00:33:57.769 for civil populations. So anything that looks 00:33:57.769 --> 00:34:00.390 odd or stands out, looks kind of barren, where 00:34:00.390 --> 00:34:02.509 there's some structures there, that could be 00:34:02.509 --> 00:34:05.369 a hint that there has been some defense installations 00:34:05.369 --> 00:34:09.309 there. And some of this you can also tell by 00:34:09.309 --> 00:34:11.909 looking at low resolution satellite image. Again, 00:34:11.929 --> 00:34:14.789 if it's large enough. This is low resolution 00:34:14.789 --> 00:34:18.130 satellite image from planet. And you can see 00:34:18.130 --> 00:34:21.869 that this village, you can just see vegetation. 00:34:22.789 --> 00:34:25.150 If you were able to see buildings, you would 00:34:25.150 --> 00:34:27.829 see like tiny white spots or something like that. 00:34:28.809 --> 00:34:32.610 But nothing is visible in this village. So it's 00:34:32.610 --> 00:34:36.500 a hint that it's destroyed. And next to them, 00:34:36.500 --> 00:34:40.579 you can see some sort of lines built around those 00:34:40.579 --> 00:34:44.320 villages. And that is also a hint that, okay, 00:34:44.639 --> 00:34:46.800 there's some structures that has been built there. 00:34:47.539 --> 00:34:50.199 So it's possible even with low resolution satellite 00:34:50.199 --> 00:34:53.300 image to be able to tell sometimes that there 00:34:53.300 --> 00:34:58.219 has been some construction that the military 00:34:58.219 --> 00:35:01.420 has done. This is another village. And here the 00:35:01.420 --> 00:35:03.739 village is almost replaced by defense installations. 00:35:03.739 --> 00:35:08.670 You can see those zigzag lines on the side of 00:35:08.670 --> 00:35:12.369 the villages. Instead of next to the village, 00:35:12.389 --> 00:35:14.389 you can almost see that they are on top of the 00:35:14.389 --> 00:35:20.570 village. So this is low resolution image, satellite 00:35:20.570 --> 00:35:23.289 image, which compares two villages. This one, 00:35:23.329 --> 00:35:27.590 which had the zigzag lines, and this one, which 00:35:27.590 --> 00:35:30.349 does not. So you can also compare, even with 00:35:30.349 --> 00:35:34.250 low resolution image, which villages have had 00:35:34.929 --> 00:35:37.389 military development versus which hasn't had. 00:35:37.730 --> 00:35:39.889 So even if you don't have access to high resolution 00:35:39.889 --> 00:35:43.630 image, you can get some hint even with low resolution 00:35:43.630 --> 00:35:46.190 image. Like this looks really different from 00:35:46.190 --> 00:35:49.789 this village. This almost looks like barren land 00:35:49.789 --> 00:35:53.329 with some greenery in it. But this one, you can 00:35:53.329 --> 00:35:55.469 tell there are lines there. So it's possible 00:35:55.469 --> 00:35:58.730 that there has been some development there. So 00:35:58.730 --> 00:36:05.050 that is one way to detect what has happened after 00:36:05.050 --> 00:36:07.949 a clearance operation happens, after human settlements 00:36:07.949 --> 00:36:10.829 or civilian areas have been cleared or removed 00:36:10.829 --> 00:36:13.690 or destroyed. This is another village where trenches 00:36:13.690 --> 00:36:18.550 you can see are like all over the circumference 00:36:18.550 --> 00:36:23.690 of the village. Okay. Hope that was helpful. 00:36:25.489 --> 00:36:29.050 Really clear. And I just wanted to shout out 00:36:29.050 --> 00:36:32.969 Miguel again, because even as a presentation 00:36:32.969 --> 00:36:35.989 tool, that scrolly telly is super useful. And 00:36:35.989 --> 00:36:40.429 if you're listening back on the podcast, everything 00:36:40.429 --> 00:36:45.329 that Pooja just showed in this talk can be seen 00:36:45.329 --> 00:36:48.929 and scrolled through by yourself on the article 00:36:48.929 --> 00:36:52.110 that will be linked in the description. So do 00:36:52.110 --> 00:36:54.610 check out there for some of those examples of 00:36:54.610 --> 00:36:56.989 fortifications that she was just talking about. 00:36:57.420 --> 00:37:01.960 We've been very careful in the article not to 00:37:01.960 --> 00:37:07.760 attribute blame, but are there methods and open 00:37:07.760 --> 00:37:13.280 source ways of identifying which potential armed 00:37:13.280 --> 00:37:16.260 group could be responsible for some of these 00:37:16.260 --> 00:37:21.300 attacks? Obviously, in terms of, we're not suggesting 00:37:21.300 --> 00:37:26.039 you name them right now, but As there's multiple 00:37:26.039 --> 00:37:28.920 armed actors operating in the same area, how 00:37:28.920 --> 00:37:33.679 could you possibly identify who's at play in 00:37:33.679 --> 00:37:38.579 these particular regions or states? Right. So 00:37:38.579 --> 00:37:43.099 which armed group is going to be difficult? I 00:37:43.099 --> 00:37:47.960 haven't looked at the whole country. If you're 00:37:47.960 --> 00:37:54.619 looking at Myanmar, it's It's tough to report 00:37:54.619 --> 00:37:58.820 on the entire region because there are so many 00:37:58.820 --> 00:38:03.000 ethnic groups fighting the military. So I have 00:38:03.000 --> 00:38:06.960 been focused on Rakhine. I would not be able 00:38:06.960 --> 00:38:09.679 to talk about the rest of the country. If there 00:38:09.679 --> 00:38:15.659 are large patterns of villages destroyed or the 00:38:15.659 --> 00:38:18.139 military also destroys religious establishments 00:38:18.139 --> 00:38:20.860 like... There is a state called Chin State, which 00:38:20.860 --> 00:38:23.659 has a lot of churches, and the military has been 00:38:23.659 --> 00:38:27.780 destroying churches as well. So if it's a broad 00:38:27.780 --> 00:38:33.019 overview story like that, sure, there are some 00:38:33.019 --> 00:38:36.219 hints that which group might have attacked a 00:38:36.219 --> 00:38:40.260 certain area. You can check if the ethnic armed 00:38:40.260 --> 00:38:42.519 group that you're looking at, whether or not 00:38:42.519 --> 00:38:48.199 it has air power. If an area looks like it has 00:38:48.199 --> 00:38:52.119 been destroyed by a bomb or something, if you 00:38:52.119 --> 00:38:55.059 can see like a crater or something, you can tell 00:38:55.059 --> 00:38:57.519 that, okay, this armed group does not have air 00:38:57.519 --> 00:39:01.179 power, so potentially the military did this attack. 00:39:01.699 --> 00:39:06.400 So that's one way of going about it. And armed 00:39:06.400 --> 00:39:10.659 groups generally, like this is again... This 00:39:10.659 --> 00:39:13.239 is not always true. We generally don't attack 00:39:13.239 --> 00:39:17.860 civilian areas, at least in Rakhine. Their fight 00:39:17.860 --> 00:39:22.880 is with the military. So if a military outpost 00:39:22.880 --> 00:39:24.840 has been attacked, they attack police stations 00:39:24.840 --> 00:39:27.559 as well. You know that the attack was by the 00:39:27.559 --> 00:39:30.420 armed group. Now there are exceptions to this, 00:39:30.440 --> 00:39:32.860 of course, because like I said, the Rohingya 00:39:32.860 --> 00:39:36.000 population in Rakhine has been attacked both 00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:39.519 by the military and by armed groups. The type 00:39:39.519 --> 00:39:44.119 of attack is a good way to tell what has happened. 00:39:45.300 --> 00:39:48.860 You can check if a particular township currently 00:39:48.860 --> 00:39:52.440 is controlled by the military or is controlled 00:39:52.440 --> 00:39:56.159 by the armed group, then you can tell who did 00:39:56.159 --> 00:40:00.300 the attack. Because an expert also told us that 00:40:00.300 --> 00:40:03.599 the military attacks villages or towns that it 00:40:03.599 --> 00:40:09.769 has lost. leave an ungovernable region for the 00:40:09.769 --> 00:40:12.010 armed group. You know, it's sort of like you 00:40:12.010 --> 00:40:14.489 want to take this land from us, go ahead and 00:40:14.489 --> 00:40:16.329 do that. You are not going to be able to govern 00:40:16.329 --> 00:40:18.349 it because there's nothing left. It's bad enough 00:40:18.349 --> 00:40:20.889 and there is no people left. So what are you 00:40:20.889 --> 00:40:25.389 going to govern? So those are some hints into, 00:40:25.389 --> 00:40:29.710 you know, telling what happened in a region or 00:40:29.710 --> 00:40:32.809 in a specific area. But due to lack of reporting, 00:40:33.260 --> 00:40:36.599 You cannot always conclusively tell what happened, 00:40:36.719 --> 00:40:38.559 but that doesn't mean there's no reporting coming 00:40:38.559 --> 00:40:40.900 out of Myanmar. There are smaller organizations 00:40:40.900 --> 00:40:44.019 that are doing ground reporting. Witnesses, when 00:40:44.019 --> 00:40:46.760 they, you know, human rights groups, when they 00:40:46.760 --> 00:40:50.760 talk to them, you can tell what exactly happened. 00:40:51.960 --> 00:40:54.960 Large scale destruction most likely would be 00:40:54.960 --> 00:40:58.079 military of, you know, civilian areas. So those 00:40:58.079 --> 00:41:00.440 are some things that give a hint about who may 00:41:00.440 --> 00:41:04.349 have carried an attack. So it's really about 00:41:04.349 --> 00:41:08.690 scale and also weaponry used, which is really, 00:41:08.690 --> 00:41:12.329 really useful to note. I've also linked in the 00:41:12.329 --> 00:41:16.190 chat your other report from last year on this 00:41:16.190 --> 00:41:20.909 area following the earthquake ceasefire. So you 00:41:20.909 --> 00:41:24.449 can have a read of that as well. We've got about 00:41:24.449 --> 00:41:27.710 15 minutes left for questions, so please pop 00:41:27.710 --> 00:41:30.829 them in the chat if you have any. I wanted to 00:41:30.829 --> 00:41:34.159 quickly ask... Because this is a longitudinal 00:41:34.159 --> 00:41:37.300 analysis, you've done it over a five year period. 00:41:38.280 --> 00:41:42.440 Did you spot any significant patterns or perhaps 00:41:42.440 --> 00:41:49.539 escalation within the data sets? Was there more 00:41:49.539 --> 00:41:54.079 reported violence or more reported destruction 00:41:54.079 --> 00:41:57.880 over a certain year period in Rakhine State? 00:41:58.880 --> 00:42:04.400 Has it been kind of a steady process in all of 00:42:04.400 --> 00:42:10.719 these particular township? That's a good question. 00:42:11.340 --> 00:42:17.079 And there has been pattern in the violence because 00:42:17.079 --> 00:42:22.159 in late 2023 is when armed groups sort of restarted 00:42:22.159 --> 00:42:24.579 their offensive against the military. So you 00:42:24.579 --> 00:42:29.150 will see a spike. I can even share my, because 00:42:29.150 --> 00:42:30.769 I've been talking about and giving a shout out 00:42:30.769 --> 00:42:37.130 to Akhlet so much. And I think I should talk 00:42:37.130 --> 00:42:41.449 about how I used Akhlet. So there is also a chart 00:42:41.449 --> 00:42:48.349 in my story here, which shows how this is just 00:42:48.349 --> 00:42:50.909 the military's air and drone strikes in Rakhine. 00:42:52.030 --> 00:42:55.269 I've only done two years, but I looked at I think 00:42:55.269 --> 00:43:04.289 from 2022 to 2025 or maybe like April 2026. But 00:43:04.289 --> 00:43:07.170 you can see a clear pattern between 2024 and 00:43:07.170 --> 00:43:12.369 2025. So late 2023 is when the offensive by armed 00:43:12.369 --> 00:43:15.769 groups against the military increased. So when 00:43:15.769 --> 00:43:17.730 any offensive increases against the military, 00:43:17.869 --> 00:43:20.190 the military also increases their attacks. So 00:43:20.190 --> 00:43:22.309 it will do more airstrikes and drone strikes. 00:43:22.349 --> 00:43:26.289 It will target more civilian areas. One of the 00:43:26.289 --> 00:43:29.150 experts also told us that it is the way of the 00:43:29.150 --> 00:43:32.510 military to tell the local population that if 00:43:32.510 --> 00:43:35.889 you support these armed groups, you are going 00:43:35.889 --> 00:43:38.989 to get attacked. Like armed groups sometimes 00:43:38.989 --> 00:43:41.789 can take shelters, you know, villages can provide 00:43:41.789 --> 00:43:45.409 you resources and things like that. So the idea 00:43:45.409 --> 00:43:48.969 is to destroy civilian areas so that the armed 00:43:48.969 --> 00:43:51.630 groups don't get shelter, don't get resources. 00:43:51.969 --> 00:43:53.730 So that's why the military attacked civilian 00:43:53.730 --> 00:43:58.909 areas. Now, if you see in 2024, in all of these 00:43:58.909 --> 00:44:05.809 areas, compared to 2025, there were a lot more. 00:44:06.130 --> 00:44:08.829 And the attacks then fell. These are military 00:44:08.829 --> 00:44:12.590 attacks. In all of these townships in 2025, they 00:44:12.590 --> 00:44:17.079 decreased. In almost all the townships, they 00:44:17.079 --> 00:44:19.760 decrease except one, this one where it's remained 00:44:19.760 --> 00:44:23.579 the same, barring two townships, which is Chaopiu 00:44:23.579 --> 00:44:27.860 and Sittwe, where the attacks increased in 2025. 00:44:28.699 --> 00:44:31.900 Everywhere else, they decreased in 2025. Now, 00:44:31.900 --> 00:44:35.820 why that has happened is because all of these 00:44:35.820 --> 00:44:37.940 other townships were already captured by the 00:44:37.940 --> 00:44:42.610 Rakanami. 2025. So the military has now shifted 00:44:42.610 --> 00:44:46.190 its focus to Chaopu and Sitwe. So now it's mainly 00:44:46.190 --> 00:44:49.190 attacking those two regions and so many attacks 00:44:49.190 --> 00:44:52.710 in Chaopu. Again, like if you read about it, 00:44:52.750 --> 00:44:58.230 Like I said, Chaopu has a lot of infrastructural 00:44:58.230 --> 00:45:01.449 projects. China has invested heavily in Chaopu 00:45:01.449 --> 00:45:04.789 and it has an oil and gas pipeline, which provides 00:45:04.789 --> 00:45:08.030 an alternate route to China to directly transport 00:45:08.030 --> 00:45:10.789 oil from Myanmar to China through the pipeline. 00:45:11.030 --> 00:45:13.389 So it's super important for China. China has 00:45:13.389 --> 00:45:18.130 also sent some of its soldiers to protect its 00:45:18.130 --> 00:45:22.829 infrastructure there. There has been a lot of 00:45:22.829 --> 00:45:26.349 attacks in Xiaopu, just because of its strategic 00:45:26.349 --> 00:45:30.670 importance. Sittwe as well, not a heavy increase, 00:45:30.710 --> 00:45:33.289 but at least according to ACLIN data, there has 00:45:33.289 --> 00:45:38.090 been an increase because, again, it's the capital. 00:45:38.449 --> 00:45:40.710 A lot of the military is trying to protect the 00:45:40.710 --> 00:45:44.849 capital. An army would get a lot of power if 00:45:44.849 --> 00:45:50.380 it controls the state capital. Charlie, can you 00:45:50.380 --> 00:45:56.360 see this? Can you see I'm sharing? Yeah, so this 00:45:56.360 --> 00:46:00.719 is like an actually data. If you have even basic 00:46:00.719 --> 00:46:05.280 Python, it's very easy to analyze because the 00:46:05.280 --> 00:46:11.099 data is very formatted. You don't have to do 00:46:11.099 --> 00:46:15.559 a lot of cleaning with the data. Or you can also, 00:46:15.579 --> 00:46:18.599 you know. wipe code and like look at chat GPT 00:46:18.599 --> 00:46:21.380 and it might help you with the coding. And this 00:46:21.380 --> 00:46:28.260 is the complete data for all those years. I only 00:46:28.260 --> 00:46:32.559 did 2024 and 2025, but if you see from 2022 to 00:46:32.559 --> 00:46:36.239 2026, but 2026 of course is not complete data. 00:46:36.960 --> 00:46:39.860 You can see the pattern. You can see that it 00:46:39.860 --> 00:46:42.579 really increased in 2024 and then it dropped 00:46:42.579 --> 00:46:47.179 in 2025. And right now in 2026, it's not that 00:46:47.179 --> 00:46:49.239 much, because again, you only had three months 00:46:49.239 --> 00:46:52.440 of data. But even in 2026, you can then go and 00:46:52.440 --> 00:46:55.500 see where the attacks are concentrated. So I 00:46:55.500 --> 00:47:02.079 also did like, this is year -wise townships, 00:47:02.079 --> 00:47:04.659 what's happening in the townships, like how many 00:47:04.659 --> 00:47:09.960 attacks in particular townships. So data from 00:47:09.960 --> 00:47:12.559 places like Accolade can give you a good idea, 00:47:12.719 --> 00:47:14.539 even though of course new data is going to be 00:47:14.539 --> 00:47:18.210 exhaustive. It can give you a good idea about 00:47:18.210 --> 00:47:21.610 where fighting is concentrated, what areas, you 00:47:21.610 --> 00:47:24.010 know, I should be looking at. Why is there an 00:47:24.010 --> 00:47:28.909 uptick in violence in a particular year? And 00:47:28.909 --> 00:47:31.010 this is date -wise. So if you want, you can go 00:47:31.010 --> 00:47:33.289 even more granular. You can do like month -wise. 00:47:33.849 --> 00:47:36.070 Why in a certain month, the military attacked 00:47:36.070 --> 00:47:40.030 a certain region more? Was there uptick in daily 00:47:40.030 --> 00:47:43.039 attacks? You know, you can do... do a lot with 00:47:43.039 --> 00:47:47.059 it. And then you can look at, like I said, it 00:47:47.059 --> 00:47:49.079 has coordinates, it has village coordinates. 00:47:49.699 --> 00:47:52.059 So once you know that, okay, this certain village, 00:47:52.739 --> 00:47:56.019 there's reporting that it was attacked, maybe 00:47:56.019 --> 00:47:57.940 there's a lot of, maybe it was attacked, which 00:47:57.940 --> 00:47:59.860 villages were attacked multiple times, you know, 00:47:59.960 --> 00:48:03.440 through the years, maybe the same villages being 00:48:03.440 --> 00:48:06.719 attacked. So you can... then say that, okay, 00:48:06.840 --> 00:48:09.400 this village was attacked like five times since 00:48:09.400 --> 00:48:12.219 2022. So there's lots that you can do with it. 00:48:12.300 --> 00:48:17.159 And I also relied a lot on it just to get the 00:48:17.159 --> 00:48:19.539 research started because I didn't know, okay, 00:48:19.539 --> 00:48:22.619 where do I start? It's a huge region. How do 00:48:22.619 --> 00:48:25.500 I get all of these villages that have been partially 00:48:25.500 --> 00:48:30.420 or completely destroyed? So yeah, I would say 00:48:30.420 --> 00:48:33.909 for anyone trying to start, research in a new 00:48:33.909 --> 00:48:36.650 territory, I think Accolade is a good place to 00:48:36.650 --> 00:48:39.130 start because it gives you a good overview of 00:48:39.130 --> 00:48:43.409 what is happening. We've got a few questions 00:48:43.409 --> 00:48:45.949 in and we're running out of time, so I wanted 00:48:45.949 --> 00:48:47.829 to quickly go through them. You mentioned just 00:48:47.829 --> 00:48:51.070 then that China has investments in some of the 00:48:51.070 --> 00:48:54.289 townships. We had a question from Alt Grade Tab 00:48:54.289 --> 00:48:57.179 asking, Is there any way of knowing if Chinese 00:48:57.179 --> 00:49:00.079 resources have been used in these attacks? I 00:49:00.079 --> 00:49:03.920 know you haven't particularly covered the munitions 00:49:03.920 --> 00:49:07.920 found, for example, at the scenes, munition remnants 00:49:07.920 --> 00:49:09.800 found at the scene of these attacks, but is there 00:49:09.800 --> 00:49:13.900 any indication that there's foreign influence 00:49:13.900 --> 00:49:17.940 in regards to this particular conflict? Yeah, 00:49:18.340 --> 00:49:20.880 for sure. I mean, munitions is not my expertise. 00:49:22.139 --> 00:49:24.139 I personally get super overwhelmed when I'm looking 00:49:24.139 --> 00:49:25.920 at munitions. I'm like, I don't know where this 00:49:25.920 --> 00:49:29.659 came from. But other organizations like CIR, 00:49:29.900 --> 00:49:33.039 they do a really fantastic job on reporting on 00:49:33.039 --> 00:49:36.380 Myanmar. They have this initiative called Myanmar 00:49:36.380 --> 00:49:40.619 Witness, and the team reports a lot on different 00:49:40.619 --> 00:49:43.639 kinds of issues. And I think they did a report 00:49:43.639 --> 00:49:49.400 on, I think, Russian planes in Myanmar, if I'm 00:49:49.400 --> 00:49:52.760 not wrong. So you could report on that because 00:49:52.760 --> 00:49:57.900 the military has air power. How do they get fighter 00:49:57.900 --> 00:50:00.599 jets? Who's supplying them fighter jets? There 00:50:00.599 --> 00:50:04.380 are Facebook news organizations, like I said, 00:50:04.599 --> 00:50:08.360 that exist on Facebook. While you won't have 00:50:08.360 --> 00:50:11.199 visuals of the attack itself, you might have 00:50:11.199 --> 00:50:14.420 visuals of the aftermath and there would be remnants. 00:50:15.179 --> 00:50:19.880 And that could tell you where a specific munitions 00:50:19.880 --> 00:50:23.340 came from. But again, I haven't personally looked 00:50:23.340 --> 00:50:30.340 at the munitions and this specific topic, but 00:50:30.340 --> 00:50:33.019 there are other organizations that are reporting 00:50:33.019 --> 00:50:36.219 on it. And there is Chinese influence. And like 00:50:36.219 --> 00:50:40.039 I said, in Chaopu, because of the Chinese infrastructure 00:50:40.039 --> 00:50:43.159 projects there, China also sent their mercenaries 00:50:43.159 --> 00:50:48.960 there to just protect the area. Yeah, so foreign 00:50:48.960 --> 00:50:54.480 influence happens in most conflicts and in this 00:50:54.480 --> 00:50:59.860 one as well, there is some munitions and air 00:50:59.860 --> 00:51:03.780 power that the military has gotten from external 00:51:03.780 --> 00:51:10.760 parties. Thank you. If you are interested in 00:51:10.760 --> 00:51:13.420 digging into munition types and want to learn 00:51:13.420 --> 00:51:16.030 a little bit more, we actually did have a stage 00:51:16.030 --> 00:51:19.909 talk a couple of months ago now with Bellingcat 00:51:19.909 --> 00:51:22.349 researcher Trevor Ball, who was talking specifically 00:51:22.349 --> 00:51:25.170 about identifying munitions in the war with Iran, 00:51:25.949 --> 00:51:29.550 however gave really interesting and thorough 00:51:29.550 --> 00:51:33.969 talk on ways to identify different munition types 00:51:33.969 --> 00:51:37.230 and who might be using them, including a full 00:51:37.230 --> 00:51:40.150 list of resources for that kind of work. So again, 00:51:40.150 --> 00:51:45.159 we also have the space within the server. bombs, 00:51:45.380 --> 00:51:48.139 arms, drones, and other killing machines. And 00:51:48.139 --> 00:51:51.739 within there, there's loads of experts on munition 00:51:51.739 --> 00:51:55.360 types and you can learn a lot by living in that 00:51:55.360 --> 00:51:57.699 particular space. So please do check both of 00:51:57.699 --> 00:52:00.719 those resources out, both the stage talk by Trevor 00:52:00.719 --> 00:52:05.199 and also the space within the Discord. MatthewsNoise 00:52:05.199 --> 00:52:07.960 asked, there's a lot of GPS jamming in the region. 00:52:08.119 --> 00:52:11.960 Do you use flight tracking in your reporting 00:52:11.960 --> 00:52:15.190 and has the jamming affected that? Have you ever 00:52:15.190 --> 00:52:17.989 thought about using fight tracking in this particular 00:52:17.989 --> 00:52:22.130 state? So there is a lot of scope to be able 00:52:22.130 --> 00:52:25.070 to report on what kind of arms are being used 00:52:25.070 --> 00:52:27.110 in Myanmar. And it doesn't specifically have 00:52:27.110 --> 00:52:30.849 to be the arms that the military is using. You 00:52:30.849 --> 00:52:34.289 could pick a region and then see what is happening 00:52:34.289 --> 00:52:38.650 in that region and what kind of arms a specific 00:52:38.650 --> 00:52:40.949 ethnic group is using against the military. So 00:52:40.949 --> 00:52:44.500 that could also be a way to go about it. about 00:52:44.500 --> 00:52:47.380 flight tracking, no, I will not be able to speak 00:52:47.380 --> 00:52:51.619 about that because I haven't done it, no. Somebody 00:52:51.619 --> 00:52:54.960 has asked, what about funding using drug trafficking? 00:52:55.300 --> 00:52:58.920 Is there any reporting on that? I've not come 00:52:58.920 --> 00:53:00.900 across anything, but have you seen anything on 00:53:00.900 --> 00:53:07.639 that particularly in this region? Yeah, no. I've 00:53:07.639 --> 00:53:09.860 read a lot of reporting on the scam centers in 00:53:09.860 --> 00:53:13.920 Myanmar that exist in the border regions, specifically 00:53:13.920 --> 00:53:18.119 with Thailand, but no, I haven't looked at drug 00:53:18.119 --> 00:53:23.829 trafficking, unfortunately. In regards to this 00:53:23.829 --> 00:53:27.230 region, and maybe this might be our last question 00:53:27.230 --> 00:53:30.610 because of the time, but we'll see. In regards 00:53:30.610 --> 00:53:34.789 to this region, what developments in Myanmar 00:53:34.789 --> 00:53:38.610 are you watching most closely right now? Now 00:53:38.610 --> 00:53:40.730 your investigation is out, where would you have 00:53:40.730 --> 00:53:46.289 your eyes going forwards? I would still focus 00:53:46.289 --> 00:53:49.489 on Rakhine. Like I said, it's a big country. 00:53:52.539 --> 00:53:54.800 It's tough to report on the different states 00:53:54.800 --> 00:53:58.860 just because they have such different issues 00:53:58.860 --> 00:54:02.579 and things going on. Their economy is made up 00:54:02.579 --> 00:54:06.260 of majority Rakhine people. And the fight in 00:54:06.260 --> 00:54:09.760 Rakhine is unique to the geography of the state 00:54:09.760 --> 00:54:14.699 and to the politics of the state, to the diversity 00:54:14.699 --> 00:54:17.000 of the state. A different state would have different 00:54:17.000 --> 00:54:20.929 issues. So it's tough. to hop from one state 00:54:20.929 --> 00:54:23.750 to the other, because it's a very ethnically 00:54:23.750 --> 00:54:27.969 diverse country. So because I have focused on 00:54:27.969 --> 00:54:29.789 Rakhine, I think I will continue to focus on 00:54:29.789 --> 00:54:33.389 Rakhine, also because the AA has vowed to take 00:54:33.389 --> 00:54:38.329 over the state next year. It's going to be challenging, 00:54:38.389 --> 00:54:42.309 but would be interesting to look at how the fighting 00:54:42.309 --> 00:54:47.469 will progress. And if the military does any counteroffensives, 00:54:48.840 --> 00:54:52.619 The story that I did is still a very small overview 00:54:52.619 --> 00:54:55.579 of what has happened. There are thousands and 00:54:55.579 --> 00:54:57.539 thousands of villages. And while I found only 00:54:57.539 --> 00:55:01.940 115, so there is so much scope to still report 00:55:01.940 --> 00:55:05.860 on. And it's not just that the villages are bombed 00:55:05.860 --> 00:55:09.980 and destroyed, but what happens after that or 00:55:09.980 --> 00:55:13.320 what used to exist before that. And there's a 00:55:13.320 --> 00:55:17.019 lot that can be reported on. suggestions about 00:55:17.019 --> 00:55:20.139 looking at munitions or flight tracking and all 00:55:20.139 --> 00:55:26.179 of that, which I haven't looked at myself yet, 00:55:26.340 --> 00:55:29.340 but it could be something to look at as well. 00:55:30.159 --> 00:55:32.860 So yeah, my focus is still going to be Rakhine. 00:55:32.920 --> 00:55:36.000 I did get a follow -up idea from this story. 00:55:36.940 --> 00:55:41.559 It would be premature to discuss it, but yeah, 00:55:41.619 --> 00:55:44.579 definitely going to focus on Rakhine. Keeping 00:55:44.579 --> 00:55:47.739 your cards close to your chest. I appreciate 00:55:47.739 --> 00:55:54.639 that. Yeah, in terms of digging into the, also 00:55:54.639 --> 00:55:58.480 into the erasure of those villages on the maps 00:55:58.480 --> 00:56:01.980 as well is really interesting. And making sure 00:56:01.980 --> 00:56:05.079 that what you found already has been archived 00:56:05.079 --> 00:56:08.000 and saved somewhere is also incredibly important. 00:56:08.159 --> 00:56:12.320 To close, if anybody in this talk or listening 00:56:12.320 --> 00:56:16.820 back on the podcast is interested in reaching 00:56:16.820 --> 00:56:19.199 out to you, perhaps they know a little bit more 00:56:19.199 --> 00:56:23.059 about Rakhine State and want to give you some 00:56:23.059 --> 00:56:27.460 information. Perhaps they are interested in looking 00:56:27.460 --> 00:56:30.380 into the region themselves and want to learn 00:56:30.380 --> 00:56:32.500 a little bit more from you. How can people reach 00:56:32.500 --> 00:56:39.420 out and connect with you? You can DM me on Discord. 00:56:39.619 --> 00:56:42.400 You can email me. I tend to be more active on 00:56:42.400 --> 00:56:45.420 email. If you want to email me, it's puja at 00:56:45.420 --> 00:56:52.659 bellingcat .com. I would be very happy to help 00:56:52.659 --> 00:56:55.940 anyone with their research in Myanmar. While 00:56:55.940 --> 00:57:02.199 I have focused on Rakhine, the methodology can 00:57:02.199 --> 00:57:06.719 be used in other areas as well. We can chat about 00:57:06.719 --> 00:57:11.559 the different avenues there are to look at the 00:57:11.559 --> 00:57:16.920 region. Even if you don't have access to Planet 00:57:16.920 --> 00:57:20.639 or something, you can still report on Myanmar 00:57:20.639 --> 00:57:25.239 because again, it's an under covered area. So 00:57:25.239 --> 00:57:29.800 it's not like Planet has a large amount of high 00:57:29.800 --> 00:57:35.099 resolution image. You can do a lot with key satellite 00:57:35.099 --> 00:57:39.460 tools which are available for everyone. And yeah, 00:57:39.599 --> 00:57:43.760 I would be very, very happy to help anyone who 00:57:43.760 --> 00:57:47.030 wants to report on Myanmar. Thank you for that. 00:57:47.070 --> 00:57:50.570 And thank you for the talk today. As I said earlier, 00:57:50.670 --> 00:57:53.889 we do have a space in the Discord that needs 00:57:53.889 --> 00:57:56.550 a little bit of love actually. It used to be 00:57:56.550 --> 00:57:59.630 pretty popular and it hasn't been commented in 00:57:59.630 --> 00:58:02.429 for a little bit. So if anybody attending this 00:58:02.429 --> 00:58:07.769 talk wants to go into the space. Myanmar, Burma 00:58:07.769 --> 00:58:10.949 in brackets and to talk about some of the reporting 00:58:10.949 --> 00:58:14.230 just mentioned. Please do. Please jump in there 00:58:14.230 --> 00:58:17.110 and continue to populate it because we really 00:58:17.110 --> 00:58:20.900 want to keep focus on. these under -reported 00:58:20.900 --> 00:58:24.280 regions. And thank you again, Pooja, for doing 00:58:24.280 --> 00:58:27.980 this talk. We'll be back in two weeks' time with 00:58:27.980 --> 00:58:31.840 a stage talk with CNN. Keep your eyes peeled 00:58:31.840 --> 00:58:34.880 on announcements and the events tab for more 00:58:34.880 --> 00:58:37.739 information about that. But for now, thank you 00:58:37.739 --> 00:58:42.840 very much, everybody. Thanks, everyone. Thank 00:58:42.840 --> 00:58:45.699 you for listening to the stage talk. If you'd 00:58:45.699 --> 00:58:48.559 like to catch a stage tour live where you can 00:58:48.559 --> 00:58:51.219 ask the guest questions, join the Bellingcat 00:58:51.219 --> 00:58:57.619 Discord server by visiting www .discord .gg slash 00:58:57.619 --> 00:59:00.519 Bellingcat. The music you've heard is titled 00:59:00.519 --> 00:59:04.460 Dawn by Newer Self and is courtesy of Artlist.