WEBVTT 00:00:03.019 --> 00:00:05.740 You're listening to a stage talk titled Tracing 00:00:05.740 --> 00:00:09.480 Deportation Flights with Gillian Brockell. After 00:00:09.480 --> 00:00:12.380 running a continuous blog, publishing investigations 00:00:12.380 --> 00:00:15.339 at well -known news sites and maintaining a global 00:00:15.339 --> 00:00:17.920 tracker of these types of flights, Gillian felt 00:00:17.920 --> 00:00:19.980 like the right person to walk us through how 00:00:19.980 --> 00:00:23.460 to do this kind of open source work. This stage 00:00:23.460 --> 00:00:25.879 talk is best listened to whilst you explore the 00:00:25.879 --> 00:00:28.780 tools simultaneously. Gillian broke down the 00:00:28.780 --> 00:00:31.500 basic tools of her craft and provided some insight 00:00:31.500 --> 00:00:34.719 into her own experience reporting on this escalating 00:00:34.719 --> 00:00:37.759 issue. You can find links to all the resources 00:00:37.759 --> 00:00:39.899 mentioned in the talk in the podcast description. 00:00:40.460 --> 00:00:43.079 This talk was hosted by me, Charlotte Maher on 00:00:43.079 --> 00:00:46.500 Thursday, the 14th of May, 2026 in the Bellingcat 00:00:46.500 --> 00:00:58.659 Discord server. Hello all and welcome to another 00:00:58.659 --> 00:01:01.719 stage talk. This week, we're joined by independent 00:01:01.719 --> 00:01:04.719 journalist Gillian Brockell, whose work sits 00:01:04.719 --> 00:01:06.719 at the intersection of open source intelligence, 00:01:07.180 --> 00:01:09.760 investigative journalism, aviation data and public 00:01:09.760 --> 00:01:12.879 accountability. A former flight attendant, Gillian 00:01:12.879 --> 00:01:15.620 has exposed that the US Coast Guard had done 00:01:15.620 --> 00:01:18.239 hundreds of ice flights on planes meant for search 00:01:18.239 --> 00:01:21.500 and rescue. was the first to identify the aircraft 00:01:21.500 --> 00:01:24.659 carrying seven third country nationals to South 00:01:24.659 --> 00:01:26.900 Sudan last May when it was still mid -flight. 00:01:27.480 --> 00:01:29.500 She helped to reveal the full extent of Kristi 00:01:29.500 --> 00:01:32.159 Noem's aircraft buying spree that contributed 00:01:32.159 --> 00:01:35.099 to her being removed from the DHS and uncovered 00:01:35.099 --> 00:01:37.359 ICE's secret use of commercial flights to send 00:01:37.359 --> 00:01:39.500 Liam Ramos and other captured migrant children 00:01:39.500 --> 00:01:42.120 to the Dili Detention Centre, amongst many other 00:01:42.120 --> 00:01:44.920 stories. Over the last several years, aircraft 00:01:44.920 --> 00:01:47.120 tracking has evolved from a niche hobby into 00:01:47.120 --> 00:01:49.780 a powerful reporting and research methodology, 00:01:50.359 --> 00:01:54.000 one which we've really tracked within this server. 00:01:54.680 --> 00:01:57.219 Publicly available aviation signals, registries 00:01:57.219 --> 00:02:00.060 and flight databases are now regularly used to 00:02:00.060 --> 00:02:02.870 investigate government operations, migration 00:02:02.870 --> 00:02:05.469 enforcement, military logistics, corporate activity, 00:02:05.810 --> 00:02:08.129 sanctions evasion, and crisis response. At the 00:02:08.129 --> 00:02:10.430 same time, flight tracking isn't something covered 00:02:10.430 --> 00:02:12.590 in Jensen training or familiar to the general 00:02:12.590 --> 00:02:16.150 public, so gaps in knowledge arise. Today, we're 00:02:16.150 --> 00:02:18.189 hoping to close some of those gaps. Gilliam will 00:02:18.189 --> 00:02:20.629 walk us through the fundamentals of aircraft 00:02:20.629 --> 00:02:23.129 tracking, the strengths and weaknesses of major 00:02:23.129 --> 00:02:25.889 flight tracking platforms, techniques for identifying 00:02:25.889 --> 00:02:28.449 government and ICE -associated flights, and the 00:02:28.449 --> 00:02:31.009 broader investigative toolkits surrounding aviation 00:02:31.009 --> 00:02:33.909 data. We will have time for audience questions. 00:02:34.030 --> 00:02:36.370 You can place your questions in the chat accessible 00:02:36.370 --> 00:02:38.610 on the right -hand corner of your screen. But 00:02:38.610 --> 00:02:40.889 please remember that this is being audio recorded 00:02:40.889 --> 00:02:43.210 for the podcast. So if you don't want me to mention 00:02:43.210 --> 00:02:46.210 your username, please add that as a note in your 00:02:46.210 --> 00:02:50.409 question. Okay. Gillian, let's hear more about 00:02:50.409 --> 00:02:53.550 your work. All right. Thank you so much, Charlie. 00:02:54.349 --> 00:02:56.909 Hi, everyone. I'm Gillian. I track and report 00:02:56.909 --> 00:03:00.379 on ice flights, as Charlie said. And I use a 00:03:00.379 --> 00:03:03.180 lot of flight tracking tools or some of that 00:03:03.180 --> 00:03:05.099 with you today. And I know that there are a lot 00:03:05.099 --> 00:03:07.979 of avgeeks in the Bellingcat community. So I 00:03:07.979 --> 00:03:10.180 just want to apologize in advance. I'm going 00:03:10.180 --> 00:03:14.340 to assume no aviation knowledge in my talk. And 00:03:14.340 --> 00:03:16.379 so if a lot of this is repetitive for you, I 00:03:16.379 --> 00:03:20.120 am sorry. So first I'll talk about signal types, 00:03:20.479 --> 00:03:24.740 some basic terms and aircraft identifiers. how 00:03:24.740 --> 00:03:28.479 to use ADS -B Exchange, how to identify an ICE 00:03:28.479 --> 00:03:31.740 flight, and then I'll touch on some other tools 00:03:31.740 --> 00:03:34.539 for flight tracking in general, and ICE flights 00:03:34.539 --> 00:03:38.840 in particular. So there are several types of 00:03:38.840 --> 00:03:42.819 signals on different aircraft, but by far the 00:03:42.819 --> 00:03:46.240 most common is ADS -B, which stands for Automatic 00:03:46.240 --> 00:03:48.900 Dependent Surveillance Broadcast. It's basically 00:03:48.900 --> 00:03:51.620 the replacement, a modern day replacement for 00:03:51.620 --> 00:03:56.030 radar, and it's a lot more accurate. So ADS -B 00:03:56.030 --> 00:03:59.770 sends out information about itself, its identification, 00:04:00.189 --> 00:04:03.389 aircraft type, location, altitude, and speed. 00:04:03.870 --> 00:04:06.729 And the key thing about it is that it transmits 00:04:06.729 --> 00:04:09.909 this flight info to any receiver within range, 00:04:10.150 --> 00:04:14.090 other aircraft, air traffic control, satellites, 00:04:14.349 --> 00:04:18.370 and to aviation enthusiasts or av geeks who've 00:04:18.370 --> 00:04:21.389 bought their own receivers. and set them up in 00:04:21.389 --> 00:04:24.389 their homes. And that will become very important 00:04:24.389 --> 00:04:28.189 later in the talk. So in general, civil aircraft 00:04:28.189 --> 00:04:32.250 are required to have ADS -B on any time they're 00:04:32.250 --> 00:04:34.110 operating. There are some exceptions, but I'm 00:04:34.110 --> 00:04:35.769 not going to get into that. It won't really matter 00:04:35.769 --> 00:04:40.129 here. Military aircraft. Most military aircraft 00:04:40.129 --> 00:04:44.079 are equipped with ADS -B, but they often have 00:04:44.079 --> 00:04:47.480 it set in a mode where they're taking in everyone 00:04:47.480 --> 00:04:51.160 else's ADS -B information, but they're not transmitting 00:04:51.160 --> 00:04:55.120 their own. However, they do use ADS -B sometimes, 00:04:55.120 --> 00:04:58.160 and they also use other signals, other signal 00:04:58.160 --> 00:05:01.319 types that are detectable by most aircraft most 00:05:01.319 --> 00:05:06.100 of the time. So usually military aircraft only 00:05:06.100 --> 00:05:10.490 go completely dark and untrackable. when they're 00:05:10.490 --> 00:05:13.870 in an active combat mission or if they are doing 00:05:13.870 --> 00:05:17.670 surveillance. And if you ever see a military 00:05:17.670 --> 00:05:20.410 plane on a flight tracking app and it has like 00:05:20.410 --> 00:05:23.389 a really squiggly line, that just means that 00:05:23.389 --> 00:05:26.110 it's being tracked by multilateration, which 00:05:26.110 --> 00:05:29.290 is not as accurate as ADS -B. It doesn't mean 00:05:29.290 --> 00:05:31.470 that the plane is actually squiggling around 00:05:31.470 --> 00:05:35.290 like that. Okay, so let's talk about some basic 00:05:35.290 --> 00:05:37.970 aircraft terms and identifiers. The first thing 00:05:37.970 --> 00:05:40.329 you might hear about is the registration number, 00:05:40.370 --> 00:05:43.629 which is also called a tail number or an end 00:05:43.629 --> 00:05:47.250 number. Those are all the same thing. This is 00:05:47.250 --> 00:05:50.629 basically the aircraft's license plate. It has 00:05:50.629 --> 00:05:54.470 to be visibly displayed on the back of every 00:05:54.470 --> 00:05:58.930 plane on both sides. And that's probably what 00:05:58.930 --> 00:06:01.189 you'll use. It's what I use most of the time 00:06:01.189 --> 00:06:03.870 when flight tracking. And like a license plate, 00:06:03.970 --> 00:06:08.209 the numbers can be totally random or custom. 00:06:08.430 --> 00:06:11.949 So you'll see some funny custom and numbers sometimes. 00:06:12.350 --> 00:06:15.589 And in the US, all non -military aircraft, their 00:06:15.589 --> 00:06:17.629 registration number starts with the letter N, 00:06:17.769 --> 00:06:19.910 as in Nancy. That's where N number comes from. 00:06:20.649 --> 00:06:24.410 And in the UK, it's the letter G. Every country 00:06:24.410 --> 00:06:27.470 has their own. Kenya is 5Y. I have no idea why, 00:06:27.490 --> 00:06:31.170 but it is. And then U .S. military registrations 00:06:31.170 --> 00:06:35.009 are generally numbers only, no letters. And they 00:06:35.009 --> 00:06:38.410 usually, not always, start with two digits that 00:06:38.410 --> 00:06:40.649 correspond to the year they came into service, 00:06:41.310 --> 00:06:44.449 a dash, and then four digits. So nine, eight, 00:06:44.790 --> 00:06:49.350 dash, one, two, three, four. A call sign is a 00:06:49.350 --> 00:06:52.649 unique identifier for a flight that is made up 00:06:52.649 --> 00:06:56.370 of letters and numbers. The call sign can just 00:06:56.370 --> 00:06:59.430 be the end number. A lot of private jets will 00:06:59.430 --> 00:07:02.550 just have the end number be the call sign. But 00:07:02.550 --> 00:07:05.230 in commercial air travel, the letters are generally 00:07:05.230 --> 00:07:08.670 an abbreviation of the carrier's name, and the 00:07:08.670 --> 00:07:10.470 numbers are generally the flight number that 00:07:10.470 --> 00:07:14.949 are on your ticket. So JetBlue flight 1690 from 00:07:14.949 --> 00:07:18.389 JFK to Austin is always going to have the call 00:07:18.389 --> 00:07:22.149 sign JDU 1690, regardless of the tail number 00:07:22.149 --> 00:07:25.959 on that particular day. This is also the ID that 00:07:25.959 --> 00:07:29.019 air traffic controllers use to communicate with 00:07:29.019 --> 00:07:32.060 pilots. So if you overhear ATC recordings, they'll 00:07:32.060 --> 00:07:34.060 be like, jibber, you're 1690, blah, blah, blah, 00:07:34.060 --> 00:07:38.740 blah, blah. And yeah. So then I'm just going 00:07:38.740 --> 00:07:41.939 to talk about hex and squawk numbers very briefly 00:07:41.939 --> 00:07:43.839 because I don't use them that much and they're 00:07:43.839 --> 00:07:46.699 not that useful for flight tracking. The hex 00:07:46.699 --> 00:07:51.100 code is essentially an international tail number. 00:07:51.279 --> 00:07:54.519 for all aircraft, military, and civil. It's a 00:07:54.519 --> 00:07:56.500 little more complicated than that. Doesn't matter 00:07:56.500 --> 00:07:59.699 here. It always has six characters and they'll 00:07:59.699 --> 00:08:02.079 be the letters A through F and the digits zero 00:08:02.079 --> 00:08:05.240 through nine. And it's also sometimes called 00:08:05.240 --> 00:08:09.180 an ICAO number. ICAO is like the International 00:08:09.180 --> 00:08:12.920 FAA. It's like aviation governing body. And they're 00:08:12.920 --> 00:08:14.579 the ones that give out the numbers. So that's 00:08:14.579 --> 00:08:18.490 why it's sometimes called ICAO. Squawk. All you 00:08:18.490 --> 00:08:21.430 need to know about the squawk is that squawking 00:08:21.430 --> 00:08:25.009 7700 means the airplane is experiencing an emergency. 00:08:26.410 --> 00:08:29.870 Okay, so one more term and then I swear to God 00:08:29.870 --> 00:08:33.090 we'll look at the lab now. That term is LAD, 00:08:33.090 --> 00:08:38.029 L -A -D -D. It stands for limited aircraft data 00:08:38.029 --> 00:08:42.070 displayed. In the U .S. an aircraft owner can 00:08:42.070 --> 00:08:46.299 apply to the FAA for a LAD designation. And what 00:08:46.299 --> 00:08:49.480 that will do is hide the tail number and the 00:08:49.480 --> 00:08:52.360 call sign from flight tracking apps that get 00:08:52.360 --> 00:08:56.059 their data from government -owned ADS -B receivers. 00:08:56.759 --> 00:09:01.139 So on Flight Radar 24 and FlightAware, you might 00:09:01.139 --> 00:09:05.019 see that there is a GoStream 6 flying over Austin. 00:09:05.539 --> 00:09:10.919 But you won't see that the tail number is N6Q8TS, 00:09:11.080 --> 00:09:14.720 which is one of Elon Musk's private jets. and 00:09:14.720 --> 00:09:17.120 it's generally used by rich people to hide their 00:09:17.120 --> 00:09:19.039 private jets from public view. That's the basic 00:09:19.039 --> 00:09:22.799 purpose. But this is really important for tracking 00:09:22.799 --> 00:09:27.259 ICE flights because in April of last year, the 00:09:27.259 --> 00:09:31.620 FAA gave lab designation to all ICE charter airlines. 00:09:32.379 --> 00:09:35.879 So for activists, immigration attorneys, family 00:09:35.879 --> 00:09:38.659 members of immigrants in ICE custody, or just 00:09:38.659 --> 00:09:41.620 the general public who poke around on those apps, 00:09:42.509 --> 00:09:46.509 ICE's air operation basically disappeared. And 00:09:46.509 --> 00:09:49.769 that same month is when their activities really 00:09:49.769 --> 00:09:52.289 started to boom under the Trump administration. 00:09:53.629 --> 00:09:56.470 So without further ado, let's look at the live 00:09:56.470 --> 00:09:59.570 map for ADS -B Exchange. And my share screen 00:09:59.570 --> 00:10:01.870 function is not working, so we're going to go 00:10:01.870 --> 00:10:05.549 to Charlie's screen. She unfortunately doesn't 00:10:05.549 --> 00:10:08.549 have ADS -B Exchange premium, so she's going 00:10:08.549 --> 00:10:14.149 to have pop -up ads. If you want to pan out so 00:10:14.149 --> 00:10:16.929 we can see all of North America, that would be 00:10:16.929 --> 00:10:20.549 great. And that'll just, great. Fantastic. So 00:10:20.549 --> 00:10:22.250 it'll just take a minute for all of the flight 00:10:22.250 --> 00:10:30.029 data to come in. Beautiful. So this is a map 00:10:30.029 --> 00:10:37.350 of all of the aircraft that ADS -B exchange receivers 00:10:37.350 --> 00:10:42.700 are getting right now. All right, so this is 00:10:42.700 --> 00:10:46.879 a collection of all the flight data from thousands 00:10:46.879 --> 00:10:50.519 of avgeeks all over the world who have set up 00:10:50.519 --> 00:10:53.799 their own receivers. And because they aren't 00:10:53.799 --> 00:10:56.000 getting the data from the government, the LAD 00:10:56.000 --> 00:10:59.460 designation does not matter. It means absolutely 00:10:59.460 --> 00:11:02.500 nothing. And so all of the information is collected 00:11:02.500 --> 00:11:05.399 and transmitted here. So if you're listening 00:11:05.399 --> 00:11:08.000 to this on the podcast, we are looking at a map 00:11:08.000 --> 00:11:11.889 of North America. And it is completely covered 00:11:11.889 --> 00:11:15.649 in airplane icons, mostly hot pink and purple, 00:11:16.590 --> 00:11:19.230 but other colors too. And the colors correspond 00:11:19.230 --> 00:11:23.690 to altitude. So a plane on the ground is orange. 00:11:24.009 --> 00:11:26.490 It takes off, it turns yellow. As it's climbing, 00:11:26.809 --> 00:11:29.529 it turns green, then blue. Then purple is the 00:11:29.529 --> 00:11:32.779 cruising altitude for most planes. And you can 00:11:32.779 --> 00:11:36.379 probably see that most of the hot pink icons 00:11:36.379 --> 00:11:42.919 are like smaller airplane icons. Those are private 00:11:42.919 --> 00:11:46.000 jets. Private jets tend to cruise at 45 ,000 00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:52.639 feet because it's faster up there. All right, 00:11:52.639 --> 00:11:56.139 so let's just look at some of the basic functions 00:11:56.139 --> 00:12:00.679 here. So in the upper right column, you'll see 00:12:00.679 --> 00:12:06.789 the search and then filters and columns. We're 00:12:06.789 --> 00:12:09.929 just going to look at search and filters. You 00:12:09.929 --> 00:12:13.529 can use the main search bar for most of the things 00:12:13.529 --> 00:12:19.110 you want to do on ADS -B. So let's look for Elon 00:12:19.110 --> 00:12:21.370 Musk's plane. Just in the main search bar, you 00:12:21.370 --> 00:12:29.250 can put N628TS. And we see another pop -up come 00:12:29.250 --> 00:12:33.059 up. that shows the information for that aircraft. 00:12:33.899 --> 00:12:37.240 You might need to reload to get the screen to 00:12:37.240 --> 00:12:41.539 isolate. Okay, great. So we're not seeing anything, 00:12:41.580 --> 00:12:43.559 so that means it hasn't flown in the last 24 00:12:43.559 --> 00:12:47.500 hours. But what we can do, in that column, you'll 00:12:47.500 --> 00:12:50.279 see the word history, and you'll click that plus 00:12:50.279 --> 00:12:53.720 sign, and you'll see the UTC date. The UTC is 00:12:53.720 --> 00:12:58.330 just universal time. also called Zulu time. It's 00:12:58.330 --> 00:13:01.629 the same as Greenwich Mean Time. And so where 00:13:01.629 --> 00:13:04.450 it says previous, yeah, you can click a specific 00:13:04.450 --> 00:13:06.769 day like you're already doing. Fantastic. Or 00:13:06.769 --> 00:13:08.909 you can click previous. I think it flew yesterday. 00:13:09.090 --> 00:13:12.169 And we see a flight come up. And then you'll 00:13:12.169 --> 00:13:15.230 also see there, you'll see all of the unique 00:13:15.230 --> 00:13:18.789 information for that aircraft. It's tail number. 00:13:19.929 --> 00:13:22.870 It's type. Type code just means the type of plane 00:13:22.870 --> 00:13:28.139 that it is. the call sign that it used, the last 00:13:28.139 --> 00:13:31.580 time that it flew. All right, very good. And 00:13:31.580 --> 00:13:34.159 yeah, so if you can X out of that, we'll get 00:13:34.159 --> 00:13:36.360 the full screen back. And now we'll use the main 00:13:36.360 --> 00:13:40.379 screen, the main search bar again, to search 00:13:40.379 --> 00:13:45.120 a call sign. So global X, global crossing, also 00:13:45.120 --> 00:13:49.279 called global crossing, is ICE's main charter 00:13:49.279 --> 00:13:54.519 carrier. They always use the call sign GXA. So 00:13:54.519 --> 00:13:58.440 we'll just put GXA in the main search bar. And 00:13:58.440 --> 00:14:00.360 it's going to bring up all of the planes that 00:14:00.360 --> 00:14:06.539 are in the air right now for Global X. And if 00:14:06.539 --> 00:14:11.740 you scroll over one of the planes, so we'll see 00:14:11.740 --> 00:14:17.019 GXA 6108. So one thing that we flight trackers 00:14:17.019 --> 00:14:19.840 know from having tracked a lot of Global X planes, 00:14:20.279 --> 00:14:23.860 at all of their call signs that are ICE flights. 00:14:24.440 --> 00:14:27.159 GXA then four digits and it starts at the six. 00:14:27.279 --> 00:14:30.740 So this is an ICE flight. And then if you can 00:14:30.740 --> 00:14:34.799 go to the history and we can see that all of 00:14:34.799 --> 00:14:36.559 the planes that it has brought up have been doing 00:14:36.559 --> 00:14:39.840 the last few days. And it looks like a lot of 00:14:39.840 --> 00:14:44.340 ICE flights. All ICE flights take off and return 00:14:44.340 --> 00:14:49.100 from the same city and ICE airs main hub cities. 00:14:49.680 --> 00:14:52.200 are Alexandria, Louisiana, which you have your 00:14:52.200 --> 00:14:56.340 cursor over right now, Harlingen, Texas, El Paso, 00:14:56.679 --> 00:15:00.360 and Mesa, Arizona. All right. So if you want 00:15:00.360 --> 00:15:04.220 to clear that search, I'm going to show you the 00:15:04.220 --> 00:15:08.600 more specific filters. So if you can click that 00:15:08.600 --> 00:15:12.700 filters tab. So all of this information, you 00:15:12.700 --> 00:15:16.299 can ask for it more specifically. So one of the 00:15:16.299 --> 00:15:20.690 pitfalls of the search bar I did GXA. It's going 00:15:20.690 --> 00:15:25.009 to show me anything that has GXA in any of its 00:15:25.009 --> 00:15:27.929 flight information. So it might show me a plane 00:15:27.929 --> 00:15:31.190 in Brazil. It's just a little prop plane that 00:15:31.190 --> 00:15:36.269 has GXA in its tail number. So if we do it by 00:15:36.269 --> 00:15:39.649 call sign here, we have the call sign option, 00:15:40.210 --> 00:15:43.629 GXA, then I'm just going to be getting the Global 00:15:43.629 --> 00:15:46.960 X planes. Using the main search bar is going 00:15:46.960 --> 00:15:49.679 to be mostly right most of the time. And you 00:15:49.679 --> 00:15:54.179 can see you can do it by type. So say I heard 00:15:54.179 --> 00:15:58.340 about an ICE flight that was going to Africa 00:15:58.340 --> 00:16:01.799 that was on a new carrier that they hadn't used 00:16:01.799 --> 00:16:04.580 before, and I didn't know the N number. Well, 00:16:04.580 --> 00:16:08.340 I know that most ICE flights to Africa are on 00:16:08.340 --> 00:16:12.080 Gulfstream 5s. So maybe I would put in GLF 5 00:16:12.080 --> 00:16:14.720 and search. And that's going to show me all the 00:16:14.720 --> 00:16:17.379 Gulfstream 5s in the air right now. And that 00:16:17.379 --> 00:16:20.759 might help me to figure out which plane that 00:16:20.759 --> 00:16:24.879 was. And then if you scroll down, you can see, 00:16:25.019 --> 00:16:28.620 you can look at, I only want to see planes with 00:16:28.620 --> 00:16:31.559 the LAD designation. I only want to see planes 00:16:31.559 --> 00:16:35.299 with a LAD designation. I only want to see military 00:16:35.299 --> 00:16:39.279 aircraft. I only want to see aircraft that are 00:16:39.279 --> 00:16:42.679 registered in the United States or in any country. 00:16:42.960 --> 00:16:46.980 There are specific boxes for all of those. And 00:16:46.980 --> 00:16:49.460 you can also do it by signal. As you can see, 00:16:49.519 --> 00:16:54.120 there's ADS -B signal, MLAP mode S. You probably 00:16:54.120 --> 00:16:57.360 won't use those. OK, so those are the basics. 00:16:58.899 --> 00:17:04.400 So how do you tell if an ICE flight is an ICE 00:17:04.400 --> 00:17:08.099 flight? Because remember, these charter airlines, 00:17:08.380 --> 00:17:11.200 they do also have other clients, not every Global 00:17:11.200 --> 00:17:16.759 X flight. is going to be an ICE flight. And ICE 00:17:16.759 --> 00:17:19.299 is also adding new charter partners all the time. 00:17:19.339 --> 00:17:22.440 I think they've added four of them this year. 00:17:24.039 --> 00:17:27.859 So first, all ICE trips start and end in an ICE 00:17:27.859 --> 00:17:30.059 detention hub city. Like I said, Alexandria, 00:17:30.099 --> 00:17:33.339 Louisiana is the main one, El Paso, Harlingen, 00:17:33.380 --> 00:17:36.920 Texas, Mesa, Arizona. They're all out and back 00:17:36.920 --> 00:17:40.579 patterns. You can learn a lot. about an aircraft 00:17:40.579 --> 00:17:42.940 and what it's being used for just by the patterns. 00:17:43.940 --> 00:17:46.900 And they're all going to go back the way they 00:17:46.900 --> 00:17:50.420 came. They generally only stop somewhere for 00:17:50.420 --> 00:17:55.740 about two hours. And when they have to do a fuel 00:17:55.740 --> 00:17:59.299 stop or lay over for crew rest, if they're doing 00:17:59.299 --> 00:18:03.200 like an Africa or Asia deportation, they tend 00:18:03.200 --> 00:18:07.140 to use the same cities over and over. And then, 00:18:07.160 --> 00:18:09.799 like I said, most of these airlines also have 00:18:09.799 --> 00:18:12.279 call sign conventions for their ICE flights. 00:18:12.740 --> 00:18:16.440 So Global X has GXA, four digits, and they'll 00:18:16.440 --> 00:18:21.660 start with the number six. If an ICE flight isn't 00:18:21.660 --> 00:18:24.180 meeting all of these, or if a flight isn't meeting 00:18:24.180 --> 00:18:26.460 all of these criteria, then I'm not going to 00:18:26.460 --> 00:18:31.880 say it's an ICE flight. So there could be ICE 00:18:31.880 --> 00:18:35.740 flights that aren't meeting these criteria. you 00:18:35.740 --> 00:18:37.779 know, for reporting purposes you want to, you 00:18:37.779 --> 00:18:40.619 know, are on the side of caution. There are generally 00:18:40.619 --> 00:18:43.539 about 50 ice flights a day. And then the last 00:18:43.539 --> 00:18:47.140 button I want to show you, if you see those blue 00:18:47.140 --> 00:18:51.000 icons that are by themselves next to a black 00:18:51.000 --> 00:18:54.240 info column, the bottom button that's a triangle 00:18:54.240 --> 00:18:58.200 with a circle on it, if you click on that, this 00:18:58.200 --> 00:19:00.759 is going to be how you look at a certain area 00:19:00.759 --> 00:19:06.110 over time. So if you want to zoom in on Central 00:19:06.110 --> 00:19:11.109 Louisiana. We'll get Alexandria up here. So you 00:19:11.109 --> 00:19:16.609 can see on this bottom bar that came up, we have 00:19:16.609 --> 00:19:19.430 date, and then we have UTC time, and we have 00:19:19.430 --> 00:19:23.250 speed. So say I wanted to look on a certain day, 00:19:23.329 --> 00:19:27.029 I used this button for my Coast Guard reporting 00:19:27.029 --> 00:19:30.670 because I didn't have the tail numbers. But a 00:19:30.670 --> 00:19:33.509 source that I use a lot named JJNDC, who is in 00:19:33.509 --> 00:19:37.750 the chat, He was like, I think these Coast Guard 00:19:37.750 --> 00:19:39.529 planes that are supposed to be for search and 00:19:39.529 --> 00:19:41.950 rescue are being used for ice flights. They're 00:19:41.950 --> 00:19:45.970 following ice flight patterns. Search and rescue 00:19:45.970 --> 00:19:48.390 flight patterns are very different. You know, 00:19:48.390 --> 00:19:50.069 they go out over the water, they go around in 00:19:50.069 --> 00:19:51.930 a circle and then they go back to the same city. 00:19:52.609 --> 00:19:55.049 But now they were doing ice flight patterns. 00:19:55.089 --> 00:19:56.869 So I didn't have the tail numbers for those. 00:19:56.910 --> 00:20:01.430 So the way that I got those was going down to 00:20:01.430 --> 00:20:05.140 Alexandria and looking over time. to spot the 00:20:05.140 --> 00:20:08.920 planes coming up. And you can speed it up if 00:20:08.920 --> 00:20:12.000 you want to make it a little faster. But I will 00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:16.940 say ADS -B Exchange uses a lot of memory on your 00:20:16.940 --> 00:20:21.140 computer. And the more filters you put on, the 00:20:21.140 --> 00:20:23.160 more memory it's going to use. Even if you're 00:20:23.160 --> 00:20:25.259 only looking at one plane, if you're using a 00:20:25.259 --> 00:20:28.640 lot of filters, it could make your computer crash 00:20:28.640 --> 00:20:31.059 if you don't have a lot of memory. And there 00:20:31.059 --> 00:20:33.099 are also usually pop -up ads, although there 00:20:33.099 --> 00:20:35.400 aren't right now, which is amazing. There are 00:20:35.400 --> 00:20:37.900 pop -up ads unless you have premium and they 00:20:37.900 --> 00:20:41.480 can drive you insane pretty quickly. So get premium. 00:20:42.759 --> 00:20:48.940 Okay. Yeah. So say you want to track a plane 00:20:48.940 --> 00:20:52.299 that is going into one of the areas that ADS 00:20:52.299 --> 00:20:55.819 -B coverage is not very good with. So if you 00:20:55.819 --> 00:20:59.380 want to scroll back out at all of North America, 00:20:59.640 --> 00:21:02.480 or even the whole world. We'll just wait for 00:21:02.480 --> 00:21:05.779 all the flight data to come in. All right. So 00:21:05.779 --> 00:21:11.019 you'll see there are some gaps. There's basically 00:21:11.019 --> 00:21:13.619 nothing over the Amazon. There's nothing over 00:21:13.619 --> 00:21:15.579 the Pacific. That doesn't mean that there are 00:21:15.579 --> 00:21:18.779 no planes flying there. It just means that there 00:21:18.779 --> 00:21:23.680 are no ADS -B member receivers there. There's 00:21:23.680 --> 00:21:28.059 nobody in the Amazon who's an ADS -B exchange 00:21:28.059 --> 00:21:32.410 member. So this is something that I use a lot 00:21:32.410 --> 00:21:34.589 when I'm tracking flights in Africa. As you can 00:21:34.589 --> 00:21:36.910 see, the ADS -B coverage in Africa is not very 00:21:36.910 --> 00:21:41.730 good. So this is where Flight Radar 24 actually 00:21:41.730 --> 00:21:44.670 comes in really handy. This function only works 00:21:44.670 --> 00:21:48.009 on the gold version, so you have to pay for it. 00:21:48.069 --> 00:21:52.369 But because they're using satellite, they can 00:21:52.369 --> 00:21:54.809 tell you exactly where planes are landing, but 00:21:54.809 --> 00:21:57.809 they won't give you the ID. So you just triangulate, 00:21:57.990 --> 00:22:00.450 you know, you say it's usually like off the coast 00:22:00.450 --> 00:22:02.549 of Senegal. Well, off the coast of Senegal, I 00:22:02.549 --> 00:22:08.630 can see that on ADSB exchange that N588AT, which 00:22:08.630 --> 00:22:12.589 is a plane that I track a lot, is about to land 00:22:12.589 --> 00:22:16.910 in Dakar. Okay. So now, and it's at, you know, 00:22:17.069 --> 00:22:20.809 UTC 1624. Okay, great. Now I go over to flight 00:22:20.809 --> 00:22:27.180 radar 24 and I go, ah, a Gulfstream 5. is flying 00:22:27.180 --> 00:22:31.480 in the exact same position at 1624. That's the 00:22:31.480 --> 00:22:35.400 plane. Now I can track it as it flies and makes 00:22:35.400 --> 00:22:38.579 its stop all through Africa. Okay, so now you 00:22:38.579 --> 00:22:41.299 may be wondering how do I find tail numbers for 00:22:41.299 --> 00:22:44.579 all the planes in the charter airline fleets 00:22:44.579 --> 00:22:48.279 or any other planes that you want to track. There 00:22:48.279 --> 00:22:52.039 are a couple ways. First, some of them put all 00:22:52.039 --> 00:22:54.740 of their fleet numbers on their company website. 00:22:55.440 --> 00:23:00.420 Journey Aviation does that. Next, you can try 00:23:00.420 --> 00:23:03.599 Planespotters .net. It's like a Wikipedia for 00:23:03.599 --> 00:23:06.839 airplane pictures. There are different flavors 00:23:06.839 --> 00:23:11.579 of Avgeek. Some people are flight tracking enthusiasts. 00:23:11.880 --> 00:23:15.259 Some people really like taking photos of different 00:23:15.259 --> 00:23:18.170 airplanes. Some people are like... aviation or 00:23:18.170 --> 00:23:20.849 like experiential avgeeks. So like, oh, the Embraer 00:23:20.849 --> 00:23:23.690 190 is doing its last flight in the United States. 00:23:23.690 --> 00:23:25.549 I have to be on it. You know, that's a different 00:23:25.549 --> 00:23:31.109 kind. But the Planespotters folks, they've shared 00:23:31.109 --> 00:23:34.630 all their photos here. And most of the time, 00:23:34.650 --> 00:23:40.150 they have pretty good fleet lists. So if you 00:23:40.150 --> 00:23:41.950 want to put in, in the search bar, if you want 00:23:41.950 --> 00:23:49.140 to put in N... 279GX. Say I spotted a Global 00:23:49.140 --> 00:23:53.279 X plane. That's one of them. I can search it 00:23:53.279 --> 00:23:57.819 and then you will scroll down to the bottom and 00:23:57.819 --> 00:24:00.759 where it says Global X. You can click where it 00:24:00.759 --> 00:24:03.420 says Global X and scroll down and it should give 00:24:03.420 --> 00:24:06.019 you an entire fleet list. Fleet lists, current 00:24:06.019 --> 00:24:08.059 fleet lists, historic fleet lists. And these 00:24:08.059 --> 00:24:09.880 are generally pretty accurate. You know, like 00:24:09.880 --> 00:24:11.960 Wikipedia, it's mostly right. It's not always 00:24:11.960 --> 00:24:14.500 right. It's not an official source, so I wouldn't 00:24:14.500 --> 00:24:19.099 use it as my only source for reporting. But it's 00:24:19.099 --> 00:24:22.539 mostly right. Another thing that you can do is 00:24:22.539 --> 00:24:28.279 that the FAA also publishes part 135 fleet lists, 00:24:28.299 --> 00:24:32.240 so every charter carrier and the list of all 00:24:32.240 --> 00:24:34.829 of the tail numbers in their fleets. But I will 00:24:34.829 --> 00:24:37.450 say that they're supposed to publish that once 00:24:37.450 --> 00:24:40.549 a month and they haven't been doing that in Trump 00:24:40.549 --> 00:24:45.410 too. I think the last time that they published 00:24:45.410 --> 00:24:48.109 it was in February and it wasn't very accurate. 00:24:48.670 --> 00:24:52.069 That one seems to be old. So that is not perfect 00:24:52.069 --> 00:24:58.549 either. Okay. And then another thing is the FAA 00:24:58.549 --> 00:25:03.259 registry. That's going to be... That's just a 00:25:03.259 --> 00:25:06.759 searchable website that the FAA has to get information 00:25:06.759 --> 00:25:12.079 on every tail number in civil aviation. That 00:25:12.079 --> 00:25:14.799 can be really useful. That will tell you the 00:25:14.799 --> 00:25:18.299 aircraft's owners, which often do not correspond 00:25:18.299 --> 00:25:22.920 to the charter airline that's flying them, but 00:25:22.920 --> 00:25:26.190 can be a rich source of information. So other 00:25:26.190 --> 00:25:28.470 resources you can use for flight tracking in 00:25:28.470 --> 00:25:34.250 general, LiveATC .net has air traffic control 00:25:34.250 --> 00:25:36.950 recordings. And there is an archive function, 00:25:36.950 --> 00:25:39.630 but it only goes back 24 hours. So you got to 00:25:39.630 --> 00:25:42.910 get there fast. I only use this if I suspect 00:25:42.910 --> 00:25:45.789 a flight has had some type of emergency and I'd 00:25:45.789 --> 00:25:48.750 like to try to hear more about what is going 00:25:48.750 --> 00:25:52.430 on. So last November, I got a tip that in a Velo 00:25:52.430 --> 00:25:55.759 ICE flight, had a cabin depressurization, and 00:25:55.759 --> 00:25:58.579 I was able to get the ATC recording to confirm 00:25:58.579 --> 00:26:01.559 that and to report that there were six people 00:26:01.559 --> 00:26:05.180 who were injured. And then the last thing I'll 00:26:05.180 --> 00:26:07.440 say is ACARS. I'm just going to touch on that 00:26:07.440 --> 00:26:10.680 a little bit. ACARS are like text messages that 00:26:10.680 --> 00:26:13.740 the flight deck and the ground can send to one 00:26:13.740 --> 00:26:17.400 another and come up on a little printout. There 00:26:17.400 --> 00:26:25.420 is a website. It's sbg .airframes .io, where 00:26:25.420 --> 00:26:30.839 you can search ACARS. Is it TBG or SBG? JJ, did 00:26:30.839 --> 00:26:33.680 I get that wrong? TBG works. OK, great. Thank 00:26:33.680 --> 00:26:39.880 you. bg .airframes .io. Thank you, JJ. And I'll 00:26:39.880 --> 00:26:43.500 just say that for ACARS, you have to search ACARS 00:26:43.500 --> 00:26:46.559 by hex. So you will need the hex numbers for 00:26:46.559 --> 00:26:52.269 that. I don't use ACARS much, but I did use it 00:26:52.269 --> 00:26:55.890 for a story I did for Rolling Stone last fall 00:26:55.890 --> 00:26:58.750 about a military ICE flight. The military doesn't 00:26:58.750 --> 00:27:02.150 do many flights for ICE, but they have done some. 00:27:03.490 --> 00:27:06.809 And this particular flight, they had gone completely 00:27:06.809 --> 00:27:09.710 dark. They weren't transmitting any signals at 00:27:09.710 --> 00:27:13.109 all and became undetectable, but they did send 00:27:13.109 --> 00:27:18.200 some ACARS. And the ACARS said, what cities they 00:27:18.200 --> 00:27:21.599 were landing in. So I was still able to report 00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:27.319 where that plane landed in West Africa. Okay, 00:27:27.319 --> 00:27:31.079 so some tools for learning more about ice flights. 00:27:31.920 --> 00:27:35.319 So first, there's this amazing new tool called 00:27:35.319 --> 00:27:38.400 habeas flight watch. This is the habeas flight 00:27:38.400 --> 00:27:43.099 watch dashboard. This is the work of JJ and DC 00:27:43.099 --> 00:27:46.059 and some activists in New England called Lexington 00:27:46.059 --> 00:27:48.490 Alarm. and they have really good coding skills. 00:27:50.210 --> 00:27:52.509 So JJ tracks flights every day. You'll see him 00:27:52.509 --> 00:27:56.390 posting on Blue Sky about them a lot. And he 00:27:56.390 --> 00:28:00.190 has gotten to a point where he can see their 00:28:00.190 --> 00:28:04.430 schedules and predict their movements. And he 00:28:04.430 --> 00:28:07.250 was putting this on Blue Sky, and he is also 00:28:07.250 --> 00:28:10.490 constantly getting messages from attorneys and 00:28:10.490 --> 00:28:13.150 activists and journalists saying, hey, is there 00:28:13.150 --> 00:28:14.970 going to be an ICE flight to this city today? 00:28:16.160 --> 00:28:20.059 And so they basically built this dashboard with 00:28:20.059 --> 00:28:23.279 the predicted schedule in it. So it automatically 00:28:23.279 --> 00:28:27.640 updates once the actual flight data comes up 00:28:27.640 --> 00:28:30.460 and the flight starts. And so, you know, one 00:28:30.460 --> 00:28:33.359 of the things that we've seen with combating 00:28:33.359 --> 00:28:38.259 ICE is that habeas partitions are like one of 00:28:38.259 --> 00:28:41.980 the most important tools. So when ICE captures 00:28:41.980 --> 00:28:46.099 someone, They want to fly them down to one of 00:28:46.099 --> 00:28:49.440 the detention centers in the South as fast as 00:28:49.440 --> 00:28:54.039 they can. The federal courts there are going 00:28:54.039 --> 00:28:59.119 to rule in ISIS favor much more. And most of 00:28:59.119 --> 00:29:00.599 the time the immigrants will have to get a new 00:29:00.599 --> 00:29:03.579 lawyer. Now they have to get a new lawyer while 00:29:03.579 --> 00:29:06.859 in prison in an area that they're not familiar 00:29:06.859 --> 00:29:10.160 with. And so it just becomes much more difficult 00:29:10.160 --> 00:29:13.970 to fight your case. So, you want to get a habeas 00:29:13.970 --> 00:29:18.809 petition filed before they get taken. So, I know 00:29:18.809 --> 00:29:20.849 a lot of immigration attorneys are really overwhelmed 00:29:20.849 --> 00:29:23.589 right now. So, this is a tool. So, if you live 00:29:23.589 --> 00:29:29.750 in Boston and you find out that one of your clients 00:29:29.750 --> 00:29:32.690 has been captured, you can look at the, it's 00:29:32.690 --> 00:29:36.009 going to be the hand scum one, bed, yes, sorry, 00:29:36.170 --> 00:29:40.190 Bedford. It's the BED. And you can say, okay. 00:29:40.279 --> 00:29:44.480 There are no iSlide schedule today. I can hold 00:29:44.480 --> 00:29:46.940 on a second until I have a minute until I get 00:29:46.940 --> 00:29:50.400 this petition in. And if let's say you're in 00:29:50.400 --> 00:29:52.559 Richmond and then click on the red one that says 00:29:52.559 --> 00:29:55.740 RIC. There's one coming on the way right now. 00:29:55.839 --> 00:29:58.240 And so I need to get the petition in immediately. 00:29:58.740 --> 00:30:00.680 And then if you scroll down to the bottom of 00:30:00.680 --> 00:30:03.420 this thing where it says record. So another thing 00:30:03.420 --> 00:30:05.539 that's really important is that if the plane 00:30:05.539 --> 00:30:07.960 is already in the air with your client on it, 00:30:08.119 --> 00:30:09.839 they're still in your jurisdiction until the 00:30:09.839 --> 00:30:12.700 plane lands in Alexandria or wherever they're 00:30:12.700 --> 00:30:15.640 going. This produces a flight record that you 00:30:15.640 --> 00:30:18.380 can put in the filing to say they were still 00:30:18.380 --> 00:30:20.619 in the air, they're in our jurisdiction, and 00:30:20.619 --> 00:30:24.559 then ICE has to bring them back. So, you know, 00:30:24.640 --> 00:30:27.619 it was started mostly to help immigration attorneys. 00:30:28.039 --> 00:30:30.200 I think they've been beta testing it, so they 00:30:30.200 --> 00:30:32.500 haven't been super public with it, but they are 00:30:32.500 --> 00:30:34.259 now. So share this far and wide with everyone 00:30:34.259 --> 00:30:36.980 you know. And then I know activists and journalists 00:30:36.980 --> 00:30:41.220 have been using it a lot too. So if you want 00:30:41.220 --> 00:30:44.819 to organize an ICE flight watch in your city 00:30:44.819 --> 00:30:47.799 where you are watching how many people are being 00:30:47.799 --> 00:30:51.279 taken onto the flight, that's something that 00:30:51.279 --> 00:30:56.220 you can use this tool to help with that. And 00:30:56.220 --> 00:31:01.220 then, yeah, so then also a lot of you know or 00:31:01.220 --> 00:31:06.140 know of Tom Cartwright. He is just an amazing 00:31:06.140 --> 00:31:08.819 flight tracker. He's a retired JP Morgan executive 00:31:08.819 --> 00:31:14.720 who just got really involved in advocacy for 00:31:14.720 --> 00:31:21.380 migrants. And starting in 2020, he started producing 00:31:21.380 --> 00:31:25.980 these monthly reports of every ICE flight that 00:31:25.980 --> 00:31:29.700 he had tracked that month. And ICE doesn't have 00:31:29.700 --> 00:31:32.420 any public records that they're sharing. So this 00:31:32.420 --> 00:31:36.259 is basically the only records that we have of 00:31:36.259 --> 00:31:39.619 ICE's activities, ICE's flights, going back to 00:31:39.619 --> 00:31:45.859 2020. And then last summer, he retired, retired, 00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:48.720 and handed his operation over to Human Rights 00:31:48.720 --> 00:31:52.000 First. So Human Rights First produces really 00:31:52.000 --> 00:31:55.059 great reports, monthly reports, full of information, 00:31:55.440 --> 00:31:59.099 Um, that if you're just getting started tracking 00:31:59.099 --> 00:32:01.859 ice flights, I really encourage you to like pour 00:32:01.859 --> 00:32:06.700 over those reports and you can learn a lot. And 00:32:06.700 --> 00:32:11.200 then, um, the last thing I will say is, uh, my 00:32:11.200 --> 00:32:15.339 white, my website, ilianbrotkell .com. If you 00:32:15.339 --> 00:32:19.400 scroll down a little bit and you'll see the map 00:32:19.400 --> 00:32:24.490 with the green countries. This is my. third country 00:32:24.490 --> 00:32:27.829 removal tracker. So I'm tracking every known 00:32:27.829 --> 00:32:31.569 third country removal that ISIS done. These are 00:32:31.569 --> 00:32:33.970 the, they're not really deportations, but these 00:32:33.970 --> 00:32:37.130 are when they send someone, a migrant to a country 00:32:37.130 --> 00:32:41.150 that they have no ties to. And those are happening 00:32:41.150 --> 00:32:44.490 under a lot of different circumstances. You know, 00:32:44.529 --> 00:32:47.170 the best case scenario is Costa Rica, where they're 00:32:47.170 --> 00:32:50.490 actually being offered resettlement. in Costa 00:32:50.490 --> 00:32:52.329 Rica. Most of the time that isn't happening. 00:32:52.930 --> 00:32:55.569 Most of the time, these countries are just forcing 00:32:55.569 --> 00:32:59.509 people to return back to their countries of Oregon, 00:32:59.890 --> 00:33:02.450 which is called pain refoulement. It's a human 00:33:02.450 --> 00:33:06.309 rights violation. It's against US and international 00:33:06.309 --> 00:33:09.430 law, but we are still doing a lot of them, at 00:33:09.430 --> 00:33:14.529 least 14 ,000 of them so far in Trump too. And 00:33:14.529 --> 00:33:16.609 then the sort of worst case scenario is East 00:33:16.609 --> 00:33:20.029 Rotini, formerly known as Swaziland. where they're 00:33:20.029 --> 00:33:22.950 just holding them in a maximum security prison 00:33:22.950 --> 00:33:27.829 indefinitely. And yeah, if you're an activist, 00:33:27.950 --> 00:33:30.450 a researcher, an immigration attorney, or an 00:33:30.450 --> 00:33:32.529 independent journalist, you are more than welcome 00:33:32.529 --> 00:33:35.150 to contact me at any time if you ever have any 00:33:35.150 --> 00:33:38.890 questions about a flight or if you're afraid 00:33:38.890 --> 00:33:41.029 a client is about to be deported, et cetera. 00:33:41.329 --> 00:33:44.690 I'm on Blue Sky and my signal is thebrockpale 00:33:44.690 --> 00:33:46.829 .44. And with that, I'll take your questions. 00:33:46.930 --> 00:33:50.279 I hope that was helpful. Thank you and apologies 00:33:50.279 --> 00:33:54.200 about my navigation skills as you were trying 00:33:54.200 --> 00:33:56.759 to point me towards... No, you said great. It's 00:33:56.759 --> 00:34:01.099 like real teaching. No, thank you so much for 00:34:01.099 --> 00:34:03.200 taking us through all of that. And obviously 00:34:03.200 --> 00:34:06.140 I know some people within here are familiar with 00:34:06.140 --> 00:34:08.619 some of those tools, but it's always useful to 00:34:08.619 --> 00:34:12.239 have a little refresher. Again, if you like this 00:34:12.239 --> 00:34:16.750 subject, we do have channels within here. to 00:34:16.750 --> 00:34:19.010 talk about that subject and practice the skills 00:34:19.010 --> 00:34:21.570 that have just been described. Aviation is one 00:34:21.570 --> 00:34:23.869 of them. And then we also have one that looks 00:34:23.869 --> 00:34:27.210 particularly at US immigration and customs enforcement 00:34:27.210 --> 00:34:31.659 actions named as such. Daniel Kim said, if your 00:34:31.659 --> 00:34:34.320 local area doesn't have robust monitoring activities 00:34:34.320 --> 00:34:36.980 like the folks in Minnesota, is there a way to 00:34:36.980 --> 00:34:39.519 figure out how many people were in deportation 00:34:39.519 --> 00:34:42.039 planes any given day? And if so, what would that 00:34:42.039 --> 00:34:44.940 process look like in determining an estimated 00:34:44.940 --> 00:34:47.539 number? So how do you estimate how many people 00:34:47.539 --> 00:34:49.820 are likely to be on the planes themselves? Is 00:34:49.820 --> 00:34:52.500 that possible if there isn't robust monitoring 00:34:52.500 --> 00:34:55.519 activities in that area? No, it's not possible 00:34:55.519 --> 00:34:58.980 unless there's someone actually watching it. 00:34:59.579 --> 00:35:04.940 It's not. You can estimate. So, you know, 737 00:35:04.940 --> 00:35:09.719 has about 150 and 160 seats. And on every ICE 00:35:09.719 --> 00:35:14.300 flight, there are a ton of guards. So they'll 00:35:14.300 --> 00:35:20.079 generally have anywhere between 10 and 40 contract 00:35:20.079 --> 00:35:22.719 security guards and ICE agents on each flight. 00:35:23.840 --> 00:35:27.159 So, yeah. So the max would be, you know, 110, 00:35:27.400 --> 00:35:32.480 120. on a 737, but it can, you know, I've seen 00:35:32.480 --> 00:35:37.199 eight. So it really runs the gamut. Now I will 00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:42.260 say in Seattle, Seattle is really interesting. 00:35:42.639 --> 00:35:47.340 Boeing Field, the county is King County that 00:35:47.340 --> 00:35:50.559 Seattle is in, and the Boeing Field Airport, 00:35:51.019 --> 00:35:54.400 ICE was using that for years, and the King County 00:35:54.400 --> 00:35:56.860 executive kicked him out. said, we don't want 00:35:56.860 --> 00:35:59.280 you doing this here. It was a whole court case. 00:35:59.320 --> 00:36:04.940 And then the courts ruled that you can't kick 00:36:04.940 --> 00:36:08.599 the federal government out of a public use airport. 00:36:08.639 --> 00:36:12.179 And that includes their contractors. So the King 00:36:12.179 --> 00:36:14.619 County executive said, fine, if you're going 00:36:14.619 --> 00:36:16.960 to do ice flights here, then they have to be 00:36:16.960 --> 00:36:18.960 on camera. So there's a live stream that you 00:36:18.960 --> 00:36:22.800 can watch of every single ice flight loading 00:36:22.800 --> 00:36:29.739 at Boeing Field. And it's really useful to sort 00:36:29.739 --> 00:36:33.519 of see what they're like, to see the way that 00:36:33.519 --> 00:36:36.619 everyone is shackled, to see the way that they 00:36:36.619 --> 00:36:40.699 treat people in wheelchairs. It hopefully prevents 00:36:40.699 --> 00:36:43.079 some of the worst abuses, knowing that they have 00:36:43.079 --> 00:36:46.420 a camera on them, although there are videos where 00:36:46.420 --> 00:36:50.099 you can see them abusing migrants, even in Seattle. 00:36:50.539 --> 00:36:53.119 You know, one thing that I would say is that, 00:36:53.119 --> 00:36:56.260 you know, find out who owns, who governs the 00:36:56.260 --> 00:36:58.639 airport in your city that is taking ICE flights, 00:36:58.739 --> 00:37:01.679 and then, you know, start insisting that a camera 00:37:01.679 --> 00:37:05.500 be set up. If you don't have a big network of 00:37:05.500 --> 00:37:09.900 activists who can be there, you walk them with 00:37:09.900 --> 00:37:11.860 your own eyes, or if they're in an area that 00:37:11.860 --> 00:37:15.639 isn't public, easily they are, and they will 00:37:15.639 --> 00:37:19.480 know where to walk them to. where you can walk 00:37:19.480 --> 00:37:24.460 them from a public place. But yeah, I think getting 00:37:24.460 --> 00:37:27.400 live streams, especially in blue cities and blue 00:37:27.400 --> 00:37:31.460 states, for all of these is extremely important. 00:37:32.619 --> 00:37:35.460 I love the uptick on live streams at the moment. 00:37:35.539 --> 00:37:37.760 It's really useful for a number of different 00:37:37.760 --> 00:37:40.519 investigations. Daniel actually asked to follow 00:37:40.519 --> 00:37:42.860 up on that. Is it possible to count retroactively? 00:37:43.079 --> 00:37:45.800 For example, I want to figure out how many detained 00:37:45.800 --> 00:37:48.179 people flew out of the airport. Assuming I know 00:37:48.179 --> 00:37:50.380 which airports were used starting from June the 00:37:50.380 --> 00:37:54.460 6th, 2025 to today. Have you ever had to do that 00:37:54.460 --> 00:37:56.980 retroactively? Yeah, I mean, I've done that for 00:37:56.980 --> 00:38:02.659 my own airport, DWI, Baltimore. I live nearest 00:38:02.659 --> 00:38:06.900 to that airport. I've witnessed probably five. 00:38:07.119 --> 00:38:11.059 But I went back using, I mean, it took forever, 00:38:11.079 --> 00:38:17.659 but I did go back to January 20th, 2025 and checked 00:38:17.659 --> 00:38:20.920 the tail numbers for every ICE aircraft that 00:38:20.920 --> 00:38:25.260 I'm aware of and made a spreadsheet of every 00:38:25.260 --> 00:38:32.659 single one that has landed at BWI. And so it 00:38:32.659 --> 00:38:35.860 was basically like four or five of them until 00:38:36.250 --> 00:38:39.510 Oh, last August, I would say, is when they started 00:38:39.510 --> 00:38:42.530 doing twice a week. And then there have been 00:38:42.530 --> 00:38:46.889 surges and drop -offs. Yeah, you can go back. 00:38:48.489 --> 00:38:52.469 And on Flight Radar 24 Premium, you can only 00:38:52.469 --> 00:38:56.269 go back to one year. And then ADS -B Exchange 00:38:56.269 --> 00:39:00.699 goes back to 2020. I have to say, JJ has been 00:39:00.699 --> 00:39:03.739 dropping some amazing resources in the chat. 00:39:04.000 --> 00:39:07.260 I will make sure that they are all mentioned 00:39:07.260 --> 00:39:09.159 in the description of the podcast, including 00:39:09.159 --> 00:39:12.300 that Seattle livestream that they've just now 00:39:12.300 --> 00:39:14.559 linked to. Thank you so much for that. We've 00:39:14.559 --> 00:39:19.099 been talking about the ease and the... demonstrated 00:39:19.099 --> 00:39:22.460 how a layman can use some of these tools. But 00:39:22.460 --> 00:39:26.039 how much of your research balances on your knowledge 00:39:26.039 --> 00:39:28.159 and experience as a flight attendant? Are there 00:39:28.159 --> 00:39:30.179 things from that previous job that have helped 00:39:30.179 --> 00:39:33.619 you better understand potential violations in 00:39:33.619 --> 00:39:38.119 these cases? Yeah, I mean, that's mostly got 00:39:38.119 --> 00:39:41.780 to do with the federal aviation regulations that 00:39:41.780 --> 00:39:43.980 are being violated on every single ice flight, 00:39:43.980 --> 00:39:48.530 because they're all shackled. You know, every 00:39:48.530 --> 00:39:52.130 flight attendant, your main obsession is keeping 00:39:52.130 --> 00:39:55.869 the aisle clear and your passengers unencumbered 00:39:55.869 --> 00:39:58.429 so that if they have to evacuate an emergency, 00:39:58.489 --> 00:40:03.289 they can do so within 90 seconds. So if everyone 00:40:03.289 --> 00:40:06.150 on board is shackled at the ankles, that can't 00:40:06.150 --> 00:40:10.769 happen. We know that there have been, we know 00:40:10.769 --> 00:40:14.710 of five emergency evacuations that have happened 00:40:14.710 --> 00:40:18.690 on ICE flights. between, I believe it was 2014 00:40:18.690 --> 00:40:22.150 and 2021 because of some court filings and some 00:40:22.150 --> 00:40:25.650 discovery. And we only know the evacuation times 00:40:25.650 --> 00:40:28.309 for two of those. One of those was two and a 00:40:28.309 --> 00:40:30.230 half minutes. The other was seven and a half 00:40:30.230 --> 00:40:32.510 minutes. There was also another emergency where 00:40:32.510 --> 00:40:35.150 they didn't evacuate in that accident. They absolutely 00:40:35.150 --> 00:40:38.510 should have. The cabin filled up with smoke and 00:40:38.510 --> 00:40:40.170 everyone on that plane could have been killed. 00:40:40.329 --> 00:40:44.110 It's lucky that they weren't. So yeah, I mean, 00:40:44.170 --> 00:40:46.590 the thing that really motivates me with this 00:40:46.590 --> 00:40:50.730 reporting is how angry I am as a former flight 00:40:50.730 --> 00:40:56.429 attendant that these people are not able to respond 00:40:56.429 --> 00:40:59.269 to an emergency and care for themselves. From 00:40:59.269 --> 00:41:01.809 talking to ICER flight attendants, I know that 00:41:01.809 --> 00:41:04.309 they're being told, if you have to evacuate, 00:41:04.389 --> 00:41:06.230 just save yourself and let these people die. 00:41:06.949 --> 00:41:09.389 They're not being told how to evacuate shackled 00:41:09.389 --> 00:41:13.269 people. And I know from the you know, the Avello 00:41:13.269 --> 00:41:15.789 depressurization, the six people that were injured. 00:41:15.869 --> 00:41:18.469 I don't know if those were passengers, guards, 00:41:18.630 --> 00:41:22.429 or crew members, but I do know that they were 00:41:22.429 --> 00:41:27.010 injuries to their sinuses. And if you're shackled 00:41:27.010 --> 00:41:29.690 with a waist chain, you can't reach for your 00:41:29.690 --> 00:41:33.110 oxygen masks. So, you know, these sinus injuries 00:41:33.110 --> 00:41:36.369 aren't serious, but they're very painful. And 00:41:36.369 --> 00:41:38.570 it could have, those could have been caused because 00:41:38.570 --> 00:41:42.440 they couldn't reach their oxygen masks. Yeah. 00:41:42.760 --> 00:41:47.480 So I mean, I also have just sort of a general 00:41:47.480 --> 00:41:49.659 sense of like when a crew is going to time out. 00:41:49.980 --> 00:41:54.559 And so, you know, they're going to be switching 00:41:54.559 --> 00:41:57.420 crews and going to layover cities. And, you know, 00:41:57.420 --> 00:42:00.300 I had a sense of that. And then talking to some 00:42:00.300 --> 00:42:03.539 of these ISA or flight attendants later, it's 00:42:03.539 --> 00:42:05.360 like, yeah, that is where the crew is going. 00:42:05.900 --> 00:42:08.539 I hope that answered the question. Yeah. And 00:42:08.539 --> 00:42:10.920 it's really useful to understand the patterns 00:42:10.920 --> 00:42:13.730 as well of whereabouts these fights are taking 00:42:13.730 --> 00:42:17.590 place. Just being able to kind of watch central 00:42:17.590 --> 00:42:22.130 airports and call signs, as you mentioned, is 00:42:22.130 --> 00:42:25.010 really, really useful knowledge just to have 00:42:25.010 --> 00:42:28.690 in terms of research. Have there been attempts 00:42:28.690 --> 00:42:34.789 by the government or airlines to try and obscure? 00:42:35.070 --> 00:42:38.110 some of the data that you're trying to use to 00:42:38.110 --> 00:42:40.409 track them now that they know that there's groups 00:42:40.409 --> 00:42:43.610 actively monitoring this, or is that against 00:42:43.610 --> 00:42:46.889 legal rules? Like, is there ways that they can 00:42:46.889 --> 00:42:51.889 obscure the data that you're trying to access? 00:42:52.530 --> 00:42:55.030 And how's that happened? Have you seen that go 00:42:55.030 --> 00:42:59.269 up in terms of recent development? There are 00:42:59.269 --> 00:43:05.170 ways. They're rarely used. You wouldn't want 00:43:05.170 --> 00:43:07.090 to use it a lot. You wouldn't want to use it 00:43:07.090 --> 00:43:09.969 for all ice flights just because that would risk 00:43:09.969 --> 00:43:14.590 all of aviation safety and, you know, pilots 00:43:14.590 --> 00:43:17.070 just wouldn't let that happen. I mean, I do know 00:43:17.070 --> 00:43:18.570 that, you know, there was the flight I talked 00:43:18.570 --> 00:43:23.469 about earlier. One military ice flight had its 00:43:23.469 --> 00:43:26.590 signals turned completely off. Others have changed 00:43:26.590 --> 00:43:28.769 into modes that are, you know, a little harder 00:43:28.769 --> 00:43:35.130 to track. There have been incidents that I haven't 00:43:35.130 --> 00:43:39.949 fully reported out where they're using alternative 00:43:39.949 --> 00:43:42.630 hex codes. That's only happened once that I'm 00:43:42.630 --> 00:43:44.550 aware of. And that could have been because of 00:43:44.550 --> 00:43:46.929 a malfunction just as easily as trying to obscure. 00:43:47.329 --> 00:43:49.010 And I was still able to figure out where that 00:43:49.010 --> 00:43:55.590 plane landed through other methods. And so I 00:43:55.590 --> 00:43:57.969 wouldn't say that they're doing that globally. 00:43:58.829 --> 00:44:03.480 One thing that I am very concerned about is, 00:44:03.719 --> 00:44:06.699 you know, you may have read that ICE is buying 00:44:06.699 --> 00:44:09.400 its own planes because they want to do their 00:44:09.400 --> 00:44:14.460 own removal flights instead of relying on charters. 00:44:14.920 --> 00:44:17.360 And, you know, I have the N numbers for all of 00:44:17.360 --> 00:44:20.239 those planes and in general, like government 00:44:20.239 --> 00:44:22.920 planes, you know, the FBI jet or whatever, like 00:44:22.920 --> 00:44:26.179 it's still a civil aircraft. It's not military. 00:44:26.320 --> 00:44:29.300 They're not supposed to be turning off their 00:44:29.300 --> 00:44:33.980 signals. But at the end of the day, like government 00:44:33.980 --> 00:44:37.559 can kind of do what it wants to. So I do worry 00:44:37.559 --> 00:44:40.260 that they're trying to buy these planes because 00:44:40.260 --> 00:44:44.960 they want to go dark. It hasn't happened yet, 00:44:45.559 --> 00:45:00.510 but yes, I do worry about that. No, but I would 00:45:00.510 --> 00:45:07.030 love it if they did. I do want to say one thing. 00:45:07.769 --> 00:45:09.809 Ireland, you know, people are very organized 00:45:09.809 --> 00:45:12.710 in Ireland. And, you know, there's a thing called 00:45:12.710 --> 00:45:15.190 Shannon Watch that has been tracking military 00:45:15.190 --> 00:45:19.030 aircraft that land at Shannon for years. And 00:45:19.030 --> 00:45:22.329 they're great. I mean, they're able to determine 00:45:22.329 --> 00:45:26.750 if a plane had weapons on it that are going to 00:45:26.750 --> 00:45:29.909 Israel. They have a list of all of their rendition 00:45:29.909 --> 00:45:32.250 flights during the global war on terror that 00:45:32.250 --> 00:45:36.369 refueled at Shannon. And ICE flights do occasionally 00:45:36.369 --> 00:45:38.309 attract, I think, eight of them that have landed 00:45:38.309 --> 00:45:41.449 at Shannon. And they'll be there. They'll be 00:45:41.449 --> 00:45:45.570 watching. They are trying to get their laws enforced 00:45:45.570 --> 00:45:49.469 there and get police to search the planes there 00:45:49.469 --> 00:45:53.949 and enforce human rights regulations there. It 00:45:53.949 --> 00:45:56.869 hasn't happened yet. So they call the cops every 00:45:56.869 --> 00:46:00.599 time. and ice flight lanes there. So far they 00:46:00.599 --> 00:46:02.099 haven't been successful, but they are trying. 00:46:03.639 --> 00:46:06.400 Thanks for that additional information. Yes, 00:46:06.400 --> 00:46:08.739 it's amazing to hear that there are communities 00:46:08.739 --> 00:46:11.360 out there trying to prevent this. As I was just 00:46:11.360 --> 00:46:14.440 saying, there's a couple of more resources that 00:46:14.440 --> 00:46:17.159 have been mentioned in the chat as well. Lemonador 00:46:17.159 --> 00:46:21.320 said the new app from ATC .com aka Enhanced Radar 00:46:21.320 --> 00:46:23.119 supports a degree of search that lets you find 00:46:23.119 --> 00:46:25.889 ATC broadcasts. where that call sign is mentioned 00:46:25.889 --> 00:46:29.110 across frequencies. They have much less coverage 00:46:29.110 --> 00:46:32.769 than live ADC. We talked earlier about the need 00:46:32.769 --> 00:46:37.389 for historical data. Bellingcat built Turnstone, 00:46:37.809 --> 00:46:42.230 which is an aggregator for ADS -B data for multiple 00:46:42.230 --> 00:46:45.050 aircraft over time. So you can search your flights 00:46:45.050 --> 00:46:48.010 across two areas of interest at once and across 00:46:48.010 --> 00:46:51.610 time. It's possible to interrogate the baseline 00:46:51.610 --> 00:46:53.809 level of movement and spot unusual patterns using 00:46:53.809 --> 00:46:56.849 that. So I'll make sure to drop that in the description 00:46:56.849 --> 00:46:59.670 of the podcast and in the chat in a second as 00:46:59.670 --> 00:47:04.409 well. Because there's so many people trying flight 00:47:04.409 --> 00:47:07.849 tracking for the first time, particularly with 00:47:07.849 --> 00:47:11.289 deportation flights front of mind, is there any 00:47:11.289 --> 00:47:15.289 concerns of people misunderstanding data on these 00:47:15.289 --> 00:47:18.250 sites? And have you seen any cases where that's 00:47:18.250 --> 00:47:20.849 happened where misinformation has been spread 00:47:20.849 --> 00:47:23.579 because people have misunderstood? the data that 00:47:23.579 --> 00:47:29.360 they found on these sites. Yeah, I don't know 00:47:29.360 --> 00:47:33.239 about misinformation, but a hobbyist did contact 00:47:33.239 --> 00:47:36.380 me recently saying, I think I found something. 00:47:36.559 --> 00:47:41.000 I think Delta is doing deportation flights. No, 00:47:41.000 --> 00:47:43.780 it was American. I think American is doing deportation 00:47:43.780 --> 00:47:47.280 flights. Look, they are going out of this city 00:47:47.280 --> 00:47:51.340 and they're going to this place. And one of the 00:47:51.340 --> 00:47:53.380 things that I know from just watching planes 00:47:53.380 --> 00:48:03.900 over a long time is that there's a repair facility 00:48:03.900 --> 00:48:07.880 at this city in Mexico. And so he thought that 00:48:07.880 --> 00:48:09.360 that was a deportation flight. And they're saying, 00:48:09.400 --> 00:48:11.400 no, no, no, that plane's going to get repaired. 00:48:11.719 --> 00:48:15.139 And you can tell by the call signs. They ferried 00:48:15.139 --> 00:48:18.449 there, so they were using Americans. um, ferry 00:48:18.449 --> 00:48:21.449 flight call signs. And then it was there for 00:48:21.449 --> 00:48:23.690 two weeks, which a plane wouldn't be there for 00:48:23.690 --> 00:48:25.449 two weeks. If it was a deportation, it would 00:48:25.449 --> 00:48:28.489 go right back. And so that plane was broken and 00:48:28.489 --> 00:48:32.550 was getting fixed. Um, in terms of misinformation 00:48:32.550 --> 00:48:34.389 spreading, I don't think any flight data was 00:48:34.389 --> 00:48:37.510 used for this, but there is a rumor, um, and 00:48:37.510 --> 00:48:41.289 I have this in my ICER FAQ on my website. There 00:48:41.289 --> 00:48:44.750 is a rumor that went around, especially last 00:48:44.750 --> 00:48:47.449 summer, that they're throwing people out of planes. 00:48:49.829 --> 00:48:55.969 And there's no evidence of that. And I'm not 00:48:55.969 --> 00:48:59.289 saying that's not happening because I think ICE 00:48:59.289 --> 00:49:03.900 would never do that. I think they would. But 00:49:03.900 --> 00:49:06.960 it's just not possible. So first of all, they 00:49:06.960 --> 00:49:08.760 would have to be on a military plane. Charter 00:49:08.760 --> 00:49:10.840 planes can't open their doors mid -flight. It's 00:49:10.840 --> 00:49:17.739 physically not possible. And the rumor was like, 00:49:17.739 --> 00:49:23.920 look, these five bodies washed up in Italy. And 00:49:23.920 --> 00:49:27.599 that's actually about the migrants that go from 00:49:27.599 --> 00:49:29.420 North Africa to Europe on boats, and they get 00:49:29.420 --> 00:49:32.960 killed by smugglers and thrown overboard. had 00:49:32.960 --> 00:49:37.860 nothing to do with American military or American 00:49:37.860 --> 00:49:42.179 migrants. There's no flight data at all to support 00:49:42.179 --> 00:49:46.760 that this would be happening. And so, like I 00:49:46.760 --> 00:49:49.960 said, I don't put anything past ICE, but that 00:49:49.960 --> 00:49:54.340 rumor is completely untrue. It started on TikTok 00:49:54.340 --> 00:49:57.820 also with someone who has no aviation experience 00:49:57.820 --> 00:50:02.639 at all. The best rumours start on TikTok, unfortunately. 00:50:07.059 --> 00:50:11.719 There's still quite a lot of useful things in 00:50:11.719 --> 00:50:13.639 the chat, which I'll make sure to think, including 00:50:13.639 --> 00:50:16.699 the link to your websites, which will be in the 00:50:16.699 --> 00:50:20.099 description of this podcast. Before we go, I 00:50:20.099 --> 00:50:23.380 just wanted to quickly recap in terms of identifying 00:50:24.139 --> 00:50:28.420 an ICE -associated flight or a deportation flight. 00:50:28.940 --> 00:50:31.280 What constitutes sufficient evidence for you? 00:50:31.320 --> 00:50:34.400 What are you looking for specifically in terms 00:50:34.400 --> 00:50:37.599 of key pointers for these flights? For those 00:50:37.599 --> 00:50:40.699 who want to go away after this and maybe start 00:50:40.699 --> 00:50:45.139 digging into these types of flights. The trips 00:50:45.139 --> 00:50:48.619 are all going to start and end in ICE Flight 00:50:48.619 --> 00:50:52.940 Hub City. And so that is going to be Mesa, Arizona, 00:50:53.199 --> 00:50:55.900 El Paso, Harlingen, Texas. And then the main 00:50:55.900 --> 00:50:57.920 one is Alexandria, Louisiana. I think there are 00:50:57.920 --> 00:51:02.119 a couple going out of Jacksonville now too. And 00:51:02.119 --> 00:51:05.639 yeah, so they're all going to be going in and 00:51:05.639 --> 00:51:08.880 out of a hub city. They are all going to have 00:51:08.880 --> 00:51:14.000 commonalities in the call signs. And then the 00:51:14.000 --> 00:51:16.730 flight patterns are generally out and back. And 00:51:16.730 --> 00:51:19.409 they don't have long layovers in any of the cities 00:51:19.409 --> 00:51:22.010 that they land in, generally about two hours. 00:51:24.369 --> 00:51:30.070 And then you can always check with me or with 00:51:30.070 --> 00:51:35.170 JJ or Nick Benson, who's ottergoose .net on Blue 00:51:35.170 --> 00:51:37.849 Sky, who's an amazing flight tracker out of Minnesota. 00:51:38.969 --> 00:51:43.059 And yeah. So, I mean, a good way to get started, 00:51:43.059 --> 00:51:49.420 I think, would just be to watch all of the planes 00:51:49.420 --> 00:51:53.219 that leave out of Alexandria, Louisiana in a 00:51:53.219 --> 00:51:57.619 day, you know, using the archive button on ADSB 00:51:57.619 --> 00:52:00.400 Exchange. And then when a plane takes off, just 00:52:00.400 --> 00:52:04.019 look at it. They'll go, oh, this is Eastern Airlines. 00:52:04.199 --> 00:52:07.440 Are they an ice flight provider? Yes, they are. 00:52:07.739 --> 00:52:09.579 Oh, this is Delta. This is just a Delta flight. 00:52:09.820 --> 00:52:15.079 You know, so it's Global X, Eastern Airlines, 00:52:15.480 --> 00:52:19.579 Eastern Air Express, Key Lime Air, Air Wisconsin, 00:52:20.699 --> 00:52:22.800 Bighorn Airways was doing things for a while, 00:52:22.860 --> 00:52:26.519 although I think they might've stopped, CSI Aviation, 00:52:26.760 --> 00:52:32.639 Journey Aviation, Palin Air, and sometimes the 00:52:32.639 --> 00:52:35.460 military. But the Coast Guard stopped about a 00:52:35.460 --> 00:52:41.550 month and a half ago. Super useful. And as someone's 00:52:41.550 --> 00:52:45.650 put in the chat, you can also help by building 00:52:45.650 --> 00:52:49.130 or buying an ADS -B feeder as well, and provide 00:52:49.130 --> 00:52:52.929 that flight tracking data for ADS -B Exchange 00:52:52.929 --> 00:52:57.989 and FlightAware and other platforms. As mentioned, 00:52:58.409 --> 00:53:01.250 I know a couple of people in this server have 00:53:01.250 --> 00:53:04.809 such devices. and they are super super useful 00:53:04.809 --> 00:53:08.110 for open source reporting and flight tracking 00:53:08.110 --> 00:53:11.489 so please do also consider that. Unfortunately 00:53:11.489 --> 00:53:14.150 we're at time and I don't want to be because 00:53:14.150 --> 00:53:18.630 I would love to keep discussing this topic forever. 00:53:19.230 --> 00:53:21.469 If you're like me and you want to continue the 00:53:21.469 --> 00:53:25.969 conversation you can do in hashtag aviation or 00:53:25.969 --> 00:53:31.170 in hashtag Both of those channels are appropriate 00:53:31.170 --> 00:53:35.590 for conversation on this topic. But for now, 00:53:35.909 --> 00:53:38.769 Gillian, I have to say goodbye. How can people 00:53:38.769 --> 00:53:42.170 reach out to you if they want to continue this 00:53:42.170 --> 00:53:43.969 talk? Perhaps have a question for you that's 00:53:43.969 --> 00:53:56.579 not suitable for Discord. And if you want to 00:53:56.579 --> 00:54:00.460 send me Proton, it's gibrakel at proton .me. 00:54:01.480 --> 00:54:03.420 Amazing. I'll make sure to include those in the 00:54:03.420 --> 00:54:06.000 podcast description as well. Thank you so much, 00:54:06.079 --> 00:54:08.480 everybody, for listening. Apologies about the 00:54:08.480 --> 00:54:11.760 tech issues at the beginning of the talk. And 00:54:11.760 --> 00:54:13.840 thank you for sticking by us. And in two weeks' 00:54:14.000 --> 00:54:15.599 time, we'll be back with another Stage Talk. 00:54:16.059 --> 00:54:19.880 All right. Thank you, everybody. Thank you for 00:54:19.880 --> 00:54:22.670 listening to the Stage Talk. If you'd like to 00:54:22.670 --> 00:54:25.570 catch a stage tour live where you can ask the 00:54:25.570 --> 00:54:28.329 guest questions, join the Bellingcat Discord 00:54:28.329 --> 00:54:34.989 server by visiting www .discord .gg slash Bellingcat. 00:54:35.469 --> 00:54:38.590 The music you've heard is titled Dawn by Newer 00:54:38.590 --> 00:54:41.070 Self and is courtesy of Artlist.