WEBVTT 00:00:05.140 --> 00:00:08.560 You're listening to a stage talk titled Navigating 00:00:08.560 --> 00:00:11.820 Chinese Platforms for Research. This week, we 00:00:11.820 --> 00:00:15.220 were joined by researcher Qiu Yang. Qiu is an 00:00:15.220 --> 00:00:18.059 expert in Chinese audience research and came 00:00:18.059 --> 00:00:20.500 in to provide us with an overview of the most 00:00:20.500 --> 00:00:24.199 popular Chinese social media platforms. Her investigative 00:00:24.199 --> 00:00:27.320 tips and tricks were focused on accessing the 00:00:27.320 --> 00:00:30.260 platforms from foreign devices. and she mentioned 00:00:30.260 --> 00:00:33.420 some useful resources for analyzing country -wide 00:00:33.420 --> 00:00:36.359 and diaspora -wide trends. You can find links 00:00:36.359 --> 00:00:38.700 to all of the resources mentioned in the talk 00:00:38.700 --> 00:00:41.560 in the podcast description. This talk was hosted 00:00:41.560 --> 00:00:44.619 by me, Charlotte Marr, on Thursday the 30th of 00:00:44.619 --> 00:00:48.219 April, 2026, in the BellyCat Discord server. 00:00:55.679 --> 00:00:59.119 Welcome all to our Stage Talk series. Thanks 00:00:59.119 --> 00:01:02.359 for joining us today, especially if it's sunny 00:01:02.359 --> 00:01:04.540 where you are. I hope you're enjoying the sunshine 00:01:04.540 --> 00:01:09.239 when and where you can. Chinese social media 00:01:09.239 --> 00:01:12.239 is one of the world's most dynamic digital ecosystems. 00:01:12.579 --> 00:01:14.799 But for researchers and journalists working from 00:01:14.799 --> 00:01:17.760 outside China, it can be difficult to access, 00:01:17.819 --> 00:01:21.340 navigate and interpret in some cases. In this 00:01:21.340 --> 00:01:24.260 stage talk, we're joined by Qu Yang, an analyst 00:01:24.260 --> 00:01:26.620 and researcher with experience studying Chinese 00:01:26.620 --> 00:01:30.180 and Iranian media environments. Qu contributes 00:01:30.180 --> 00:01:33.379 to the China Media Project, and recently wrote 00:01:33.379 --> 00:01:36.519 a guide on researching on the app Xiaozhuangshu, 00:01:36.620 --> 00:01:39.939 red note, for Bellingcat. Today, together, we'll 00:01:39.939 --> 00:01:42.299 explore how these platforms work in practice, 00:01:42.420 --> 00:01:44.459 what makes them distinct, and how to approach 00:01:44.459 --> 00:01:47.530 them effectively from a foreign device. Whether 00:01:47.530 --> 00:01:49.629 you're tracking stories, analyzing trends or 00:01:49.629 --> 00:01:51.489 just trying to get a clearer view into these 00:01:51.489 --> 00:01:54.790 spaces, this session will offer practical insights 00:01:54.790 --> 00:01:57.730 and grounded advice. Before we start, a short 00:01:57.730 --> 00:01:59.930 reminder that you can place your questions in 00:01:59.930 --> 00:02:01.969 the chat accessible on the right hand corner 00:02:01.969 --> 00:02:04.269 of your screen. But please remember that this 00:02:04.269 --> 00:02:07.569 is being audio recorded for the podcast. So if 00:02:07.569 --> 00:02:10.169 you don't want me to mention your username for 00:02:10.169 --> 00:02:13.210 security reasons or whatever, please add that 00:02:13.210 --> 00:02:16.750 as a note in your question. Okay, Chu, I'll cross 00:02:16.750 --> 00:02:21.710 over to you and I will mute my mic. Hi. Hi, everyone. 00:02:22.169 --> 00:02:26.650 I'm going to share my screen first. Hi, everyone. 00:02:26.830 --> 00:02:29.770 I'm glad to be here and to have the chance to 00:02:29.770 --> 00:02:32.990 connect with the Valentine community. My name 00:02:32.990 --> 00:02:35.930 is Chu Yang. I'm a journalist and media researcher 00:02:35.930 --> 00:02:39.789 focusing on China's digital spaces and information 00:02:39.789 --> 00:02:42.689 ecosystem. I write for the China Media Project 00:02:42.689 --> 00:02:46.449 and I recently published a guide on Balinkite 00:02:46.449 --> 00:02:49.629 about using xiao hong shu, also known as Red 00:02:49.629 --> 00:02:53.810 Note or Little Red Book for open source investigation. 00:02:54.509 --> 00:02:57.430 Today, I want to talk about something quite practical, 00:02:57.810 --> 00:02:59.689 how you can actually use Chinese social media 00:02:59.689 --> 00:03:02.770 as a journalist or researcher even if you don't 00:03:02.770 --> 00:03:05.530 have a Chinese phone number, don't read Chinese 00:03:05.530 --> 00:03:08.729 and have never opened any of these apps before. 00:03:09.020 --> 00:03:16.039 So I will cover the three things, how to get 00:03:16.039 --> 00:03:19.139 the access, why this platform is worth your time, 00:03:19.340 --> 00:03:23.680 and which tools and resources to use. So the 00:03:23.680 --> 00:03:26.300 first one, let's start with the most basic question. 00:03:26.460 --> 00:03:29.680 What can you actually do without a Chinese phone 00:03:29.680 --> 00:03:32.400 number? It's actually more than you might think. 00:03:32.740 --> 00:03:35.199 First, you don't even need an account. Weibo, 00:03:35.199 --> 00:03:38.060 you can actually see trendy topics without any 00:03:38.060 --> 00:03:42.159 account. The hot search list, meaning like trendy 00:03:42.159 --> 00:03:47.879 topics, is publicly accessible. Douyin and xiaohongshu 00:03:47.879 --> 00:03:52.340 are more limited. You can scroll through whatever 00:03:52.340 --> 00:03:55.680 the algorithm serves you. By the moment you want 00:03:55.680 --> 00:03:58.639 to search, open a specific post, or read the 00:03:58.639 --> 00:04:03.539 comments, you will need to register. But you 00:04:03.539 --> 00:04:07.240 can register with the overseas number. All these 00:04:07.240 --> 00:04:10.819 three platform accepts international phone numbers, 00:04:11.319 --> 00:04:14.460 and unlike Chinese users who are subject to real 00:04:14.460 --> 00:04:17.699 -name registration requirements, international 00:04:17.699 --> 00:04:20.720 users aren't, so the setup process is actually 00:04:20.720 --> 00:04:23.980 quite relaxed. You can use your regular phone 00:04:23.980 --> 00:04:27.420 number, or if you prefer to keep the things separate, 00:04:28.459 --> 00:04:33.939 a cheap prepaid SIM card that can receive a verification 00:04:33.939 --> 00:04:37.740 code works just fine, but Here I want to flag 00:04:37.740 --> 00:04:41.560 something important, especially for xiaohongshu. 00:04:41.920 --> 00:04:45.060 When you register with an overseas number, the 00:04:45.060 --> 00:04:48.819 platform automatically tags you as an international 00:04:48.819 --> 00:04:53.079 user. And that changed everything about what 00:04:53.079 --> 00:04:56.500 you see. The algorithm will start pushing you 00:04:56.500 --> 00:05:00.959 English language content, posts from expat influencers 00:05:00.959 --> 00:05:03.920 or content created for international audiences, 00:05:04.100 --> 00:05:07.959 which Sounds convenient, but for investigation 00:05:07.959 --> 00:05:11.500 purpose, it's actually quite a problem. Because 00:05:11.500 --> 00:05:15.360 what you are seeing is no longer what the Chinese 00:05:15.360 --> 00:05:19.459 users see. So my first practical tip, if you 00:05:19.459 --> 00:05:22.259 are using Xiaohongshu for research, disabled 00:05:22.259 --> 00:05:26.259 automatic translation. Let the app show you content 00:05:26.259 --> 00:05:31.540 as it natively appears. It will help you distinguish 00:05:31.540 --> 00:05:34.620 between posts made for domestic audiences. and 00:05:34.620 --> 00:05:37.879 posts made for people like you. And more broadly, 00:05:38.160 --> 00:05:41.180 be aware that your feed is being shaped constantly. 00:05:42.060 --> 00:05:45.120 Every search you do, every post you do on, every 00:05:45.120 --> 00:05:48.439 account you follow, all of all of that trains 00:05:48.439 --> 00:05:51.899 your algorithm. Your location also plays a role. 00:05:52.019 --> 00:05:54.939 The xiaohongshu you see after a week of use will 00:05:54.939 --> 00:05:57.540 be quite different from the one a user in Shanghai 00:05:57.540 --> 00:06:01.019 sees. That's not a reason not to use it, but 00:06:01.019 --> 00:06:03.620 it's something to keep in mind when you are accessing 00:06:04.620 --> 00:06:09.660 how representative your sample is. So this is 00:06:09.660 --> 00:06:15.000 the basic access issues. The next question is 00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:19.879 like, why do you need to use Chinese social media? 00:06:21.399 --> 00:06:27.800 So I would like to frame it around three directions. 00:06:28.089 --> 00:06:31.829 Direction 1 is searching for topics and resources. 00:06:32.470 --> 00:06:36.089 Chinese social media are quite simply enormous. 00:06:36.769 --> 00:06:40.230 Xiaohongshu alone has around 300 million monthly 00:06:40.230 --> 00:06:44.810 active users and processes over 600 million searches 00:06:44.810 --> 00:06:48.610 a day. Weibo has been the de facto public square 00:06:48.610 --> 00:06:51.509 for Chinese internet users for over a decade. 00:06:52.069 --> 00:06:54.949 For journalists, that means there is a huge amount 00:06:55.240 --> 00:06:58.639 of primary source material, eyewitness accounts, 00:06:59.360 --> 00:07:03.819 personal testimonials, grassroots reactions to 00:07:03.819 --> 00:07:08.139 events that simply don't service in English language 00:07:08.139 --> 00:07:11.540 media. I will give you an example from my guide. 00:07:12.759 --> 00:07:17.339 When the 2025 Miss Finland was accused of making 00:07:17.339 --> 00:07:22.689 anti -Asian gestures, A search for 芬蘭小姐, Mr. 00:07:22.829 --> 00:07:26.569 Land, combined with 投訴, which means complaint, 00:07:27.029 --> 00:07:31.350 on 小紅書, revealed an entire ecosystem of collective 00:07:31.350 --> 00:07:35.470 action. Users were sharing complaint templates, 00:07:35.769 --> 00:07:38.350 posting different pathways for filing reports, 00:07:38.889 --> 00:07:42.689 documenting outcomes. That's not something you'll 00:07:42.689 --> 00:07:46.439 find in your Reuter wild story, but It's exactly 00:07:46.439 --> 00:07:49.379 the kind of grassroots coordination that's valuable 00:07:49.379 --> 00:07:52.759 to report on. And with the Chinese diaspora now 00:07:52.759 --> 00:07:55.860 spread across the world, there are millions of 00:07:55.860 --> 00:07:58.899 Chinese nationals living outside of China. Social 00:07:58.899 --> 00:08:02.240 media activity by the diaspora community can 00:08:02.240 --> 00:08:06.259 turn into global stories. Xiaohongshu in particular 00:08:06.259 --> 00:08:10.139 has become a kind of lifestyle and community 00:08:10.139 --> 00:08:13.279 hub for young Chinese living abroad, which makes 00:08:13.279 --> 00:08:17.000 it especially useful for stories involving that 00:08:17.000 --> 00:08:23.220 demographic. And on direct two is understanding 00:08:23.220 --> 00:08:27.139 real public opinion and nuance. This is where 00:08:27.139 --> 00:08:29.800 it gets really interesting and this is actually 00:08:29.800 --> 00:08:33.320 something that happened last week. So it's very 00:08:33.320 --> 00:08:42.200 timely. On Tuesday, China's Ministry of State 00:08:42.200 --> 00:08:45.620 Security published a post to its Chinese account, 00:08:46.019 --> 00:08:50.279 claiming that hostile foreign forces are funding 00:08:50.279 --> 00:08:54.379 lying flat influencers to systematically brainwash 00:08:54.379 --> 00:08:59.230 Chinese youth. Lying flat, Tangping, in Chinese, 00:08:59.470 --> 00:09:03.289 is a cultural phenomenon where young people opt 00:09:03.289 --> 00:09:06.549 out of the relentless pressure to work harder 00:09:06.549 --> 00:09:10.330 and more compete for status. It's essentially 00:09:10.330 --> 00:09:15.429 China's version of quiet quitting, but more philosophically 00:09:15.429 --> 00:09:18.710 deliberate. The state's security is announcing 00:09:18.710 --> 00:09:24.419 that this isn't an organic social response. It's 00:09:24.419 --> 00:09:28.080 more like a foreign plot. Now, if you only read 00:09:28.080 --> 00:09:32.019 the official statement, you get one picture. 00:09:32.440 --> 00:09:35.179 But if you go to Xiaohongshu and search Tangping 00:09:35.179 --> 00:09:38.480 right now, you get something completely different. 00:09:39.139 --> 00:09:43.740 The comments section are full of mockery. I pulled 00:09:43.740 --> 00:09:47.059 a few quotes at random from the comment section 00:09:47.059 --> 00:09:50.659 on a Xiaohongshu post by a state media account 00:09:50.659 --> 00:09:54.960 sharing the video. So not sure if you can read 00:09:54.960 --> 00:09:59.419 it, but it says, one user from Beijing wrote, 00:09:59.919 --> 00:10:02.559 no need to incite us. We chose this ourselves. 00:10:03.480 --> 00:10:06.740 And another one from Jiangsu said, where do we 00:10:06.740 --> 00:10:08.559 collect the foreign money? Let's go together. 00:10:09.120 --> 00:10:12.139 And then there are... is my personal favorite, 00:10:12.299 --> 00:10:17.399 a user who wrote completely deadpan. I'm 38 years 00:10:17.399 --> 00:10:19.899 old and I want to answer to the nation's call. 00:10:20.000 --> 00:10:23.019 I'm planning to join the tobacco company, the 00:10:23.019 --> 00:10:26.899 power company, patrol China, listing every state 00:10:26.899 --> 00:10:31.539 -owned, essentially unattainable employer he 00:10:31.539 --> 00:10:35.480 can think of. And the reason why he wrote 38 00:10:35.480 --> 00:10:40.870 is It's a phenomenon in China that now, like 00:10:40.870 --> 00:10:43.509 after you are 35, basically it's really hard 00:10:43.509 --> 00:10:47.809 to find a job. So he would kind of like put, 00:10:47.809 --> 00:10:54.110 have order warning or like the art target. That 00:10:54.110 --> 00:10:56.669 comment is doing a lot of work in not so rejecting 00:10:56.669 --> 00:10:59.830 the official framing. It's pointing directly 00:10:59.830 --> 00:11:04.129 at the structure inequality that drives line 00:11:04.129 --> 00:11:10.279 flight. in the first place. The irony is that 00:11:10.279 --> 00:11:13.259 that exists precisely because the competition 00:11:13.259 --> 00:11:16.879 for the state sex drop is so brutal and so unfair 00:11:16.879 --> 00:11:21.379 that many young people have simply just given 00:11:21.379 --> 00:11:25.159 up trying. This gap between the official narrative 00:11:25.159 --> 00:11:27.919 and what people are actually seeing is itself 00:11:27.919 --> 00:11:31.379 a story and you can only find it if you are looking 00:11:31.379 --> 00:11:35.279 at the platforms. And the third direction I want 00:11:35.279 --> 00:11:38.000 to point out is studying Chinese social media 00:11:38.000 --> 00:11:43.080 as a subject. It's slightly different. Instead 00:11:43.080 --> 00:11:46.340 of using these platforms as a resource for other 00:11:46.340 --> 00:11:49.960 stories, you are studying the platforms themselves 00:11:49.960 --> 00:11:54.720 from a media or technology perspective. How does 00:11:54.720 --> 00:11:57.929 censorship work? what gets deleted and when. 00:11:58.330 --> 00:12:01.889 How do viral information ecosystems function 00:12:01.889 --> 00:12:05.110 under authoritarian control? This is a longer 00:12:05.110 --> 00:12:09.429 term, more systematic work. But it's some of 00:12:09.429 --> 00:12:13.490 the most important jumbling being done on China 00:12:13.490 --> 00:12:18.529 right now. I will put you to some resources for 00:12:18.529 --> 00:12:21.909 this. So let me give you some practical tools 00:12:21.909 --> 00:12:26.559 organized in three levels. The level one is the 00:12:26.559 --> 00:12:30.279 platform specific tracking. For Weibo, the simply 00:12:30.279 --> 00:12:35.059 entry point is the hot search list, weibo .com 00:12:35.059 --> 00:12:39.080 slash hot. It's a real time ranking. of trendy 00:12:39.080 --> 00:12:42.360 topics updated constantly. Even without reading 00:12:42.360 --> 00:12:44.879 Chinese, you can track what topics are moving 00:12:44.879 --> 00:12:48.320 and use translation tool to understand them. 00:12:48.940 --> 00:12:53.120 For xiaohongshu, the built -in search is more 00:12:53.120 --> 00:12:59.330 powerful than it looks. A few things worth you 00:12:59.330 --> 00:13:03.610 can already check most of how it works from the 00:13:03.610 --> 00:13:09.350 guides Charlie just shared. A few things worth 00:13:09.350 --> 00:13:13.120 knowing is like you can combine keywords to narrow 00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:18.139 results. Instead of just searching a topic, combine 00:13:18.139 --> 00:13:21.019 it with a verb or action, like I mentioned with 00:13:21.019 --> 00:13:24.480 miss Finland and complaint. And you can also 00:13:24.480 --> 00:13:27.039 filter by different kinds of content types. So 00:13:27.039 --> 00:13:31.700 I won't get it too much into the building search. 00:13:32.750 --> 00:13:37.809 I think I have put most of this content inside 00:13:37.809 --> 00:13:41.789 the note. For tracking content trends across 00:13:41.789 --> 00:13:45.809 platforms, which articles are going viral on 00:13:45.809 --> 00:13:48.870 WeChat, which posts on Xiaohongshu I get in traction. 00:13:50.730 --> 00:13:54.330 New rank, which I also mentioned in the guide, 00:13:54.730 --> 00:13:58.379 is useful analytics. tool. It's not just for 00:13:58.379 --> 00:14:04.080 Xiaohu Shu, it covers all platforms. So it tracks 00:14:04.080 --> 00:14:09.139 content heat, account ranks, and article virality 00:14:09.139 --> 00:14:14.580 peaks. It's in Chinese but navigable with a translation 00:14:14.580 --> 00:14:20.340 layer. And the tier two is understanding Chinese 00:14:20.340 --> 00:14:23.379 digital culture. For anyone who doesn't read 00:14:23.379 --> 00:14:25.379 Chinese and wants to follow what's happening 00:14:25.379 --> 00:14:29.440 on Chinese platforms, my strongest recommendation 00:14:29.440 --> 00:14:37.700 is What's on Weibo. The site has recently rebranded 00:14:37.700 --> 00:14:41.240 to cover a broad scope under the name Eye on 00:14:41.240 --> 00:14:45.220 Digital China, which reflects the reality that 00:14:45.220 --> 00:14:48.840 the Chinese internet has expanded well beyond 00:14:48.840 --> 00:14:55.250 Weibo. It published English language explainers 00:14:55.250 --> 00:14:59.029 on viral moments, trendy topics, and platform 00:14:59.029 --> 00:15:03.470 developments, updated very regularly. It's genuinely 00:15:03.470 --> 00:15:06.450 one of the best entry points into Chinese digital 00:15:06.450 --> 00:15:10.990 culture for non -Chinese readers. And the level 00:15:10.990 --> 00:15:15.580 3... in censorship and platform mechanism. For 00:15:15.580 --> 00:15:21.659 more systematic long -term research, China Digital 00:15:21.659 --> 00:15:28.179 Times does two important things. It tracks significant 00:15:29.490 --> 00:15:34.029 Internet events and viral incidents. And it also 00:15:34.029 --> 00:15:37.710 archives censored content from Chinese platforms. 00:15:38.549 --> 00:15:42.970 It also reports on Chinese censorship. So if 00:15:42.970 --> 00:15:46.429 a post gets deleted, there is a reasonable chance 00:15:46.429 --> 00:15:50.769 CDT has a record of it. And for academic level 00:15:50.769 --> 00:15:54.129 research into censorship, censorship mechanism, 00:15:54.529 --> 00:15:57.889 specifically, citizen lab at the University of 00:15:57.769 --> 00:16:03.529 Toronto has done extensive rigorous work on how 00:16:03.529 --> 00:16:06.870 Chinese platforms censor content, what a keyword 00:16:06.870 --> 00:16:10.230 list looks like, and how the system adapts over 00:16:10.230 --> 00:16:17.649 time. Their reports are publicly available. So 00:16:17.649 --> 00:16:21.789 to sum up, Chinese social media is accessible. 00:16:22.269 --> 00:16:26.110 probably more accessible than most people assume. 00:16:26.570 --> 00:16:28.549 You don't need a Chinese phone number to browse 00:16:28.549 --> 00:16:31.950 and you don't need to read Chinese to get a start. 00:16:32.470 --> 00:16:36.509 But the real value isn't just the access, it's 00:16:36.509 --> 00:16:40.070 the ability to see what visual narratives are 00:16:40.070 --> 00:16:44.009 up against. The irony, the mockery, the quiet 00:16:44.009 --> 00:16:47.889 resistance, the structured critique hidden inside 00:16:47.889 --> 00:16:52.320 a joke about applying to Patrol China. So that's 00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:55.360 where the story is and these platforms are where 00:16:55.360 --> 00:17:00.539 you'll find it. My guide on Xiaohongshu is on 00:17:00.539 --> 00:17:04.559 the Bellingcat website. So you can just check 00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:09.740 it out and I'm happy to answer questions now. 00:17:11.700 --> 00:17:14.079 Thank you so much too. Thank you for going through 00:17:14.079 --> 00:17:19.500 those really systematic tips and also for spotlighting 00:17:19.500 --> 00:17:22.299 why. Oh, I didn't even realize I didn't turn 00:17:22.299 --> 00:17:26.519 on my video. No worries. I was just saying, it 00:17:26.519 --> 00:17:29.599 was great to also hear why this research is important 00:17:29.599 --> 00:17:33.880 and how it impacts not only knowledge of what's 00:17:33.880 --> 00:17:36.160 going on within the country, but also with the 00:17:36.460 --> 00:17:40.180 Diaspora as well, as you mentioned. Please do 00:17:40.180 --> 00:17:43.400 take a moment to read Chu's guide. As I said, 00:17:43.400 --> 00:17:47.160 it's in the chat and it's a fantastic run -through 00:17:47.160 --> 00:17:51.460 of how to dive into that particular platform. 00:17:52.019 --> 00:17:54.559 I wanted to ask Chu to kick the questions off. 00:17:55.160 --> 00:17:58.599 How do Chinese platforms in general differ in 00:17:58.599 --> 00:18:03.849 terms of content visibility and moderation? compared 00:18:03.849 --> 00:18:07.470 to platforms that maybe have a more global view. 00:18:07.890 --> 00:18:10.910 Is moderation a little bit stronger on Chinese 00:18:10.910 --> 00:18:14.730 apps or is it a little bit freer? Can you talk 00:18:14.730 --> 00:18:17.150 through a little bit what the moderation controls 00:18:17.150 --> 00:18:20.450 are like on those platforms? I think it depends. 00:18:21.369 --> 00:18:26.049 So for the Chinese social media platforms, how 00:18:26.049 --> 00:18:30.390 can I put this way? So for the platforms, If 00:18:30.390 --> 00:18:34.670 they are a huge platform, so when people, when 00:18:34.670 --> 00:18:37.369 they are doing like a sensor content, that means 00:18:37.369 --> 00:18:40.589 like they will affect the user experience. So 00:18:40.589 --> 00:18:45.430 this is a, so they operate in two layers. First 00:18:45.430 --> 00:18:48.410 layers is actually, they operate like a normal 00:18:48.410 --> 00:18:52.470 business or like a company, like any big platform, 00:18:53.029 --> 00:18:57.240 like any big... any global platform. So they 00:18:57.240 --> 00:19:00.539 have to care about the user experience or like 00:19:00.539 --> 00:19:05.559 not censor too much. And this is the one thing. 00:19:05.740 --> 00:19:11.220 But on the other hand, they also have to align 00:19:11.220 --> 00:19:15.319 with the state censorship, like all the rules 00:19:15.319 --> 00:19:18.079 or regulations. That means like they have to 00:19:18.079 --> 00:19:22.579 find a balance between like there are the absolute 00:19:23.049 --> 00:19:27.950 red line that you can't cross. I think you can 00:19:27.950 --> 00:19:34.250 find all these red lines from any research on 00:19:34.250 --> 00:19:38.410 Chinese censorship. What are the absolute taboos 00:19:38.410 --> 00:19:41.589 that you are not allowed to discuss on social 00:19:41.589 --> 00:19:47.950 media? Beyond this red line, there you can actually 00:19:47.950 --> 00:19:52.539 have sort of autonomy to decide how you are going 00:19:52.539 --> 00:19:58.240 to do your moderation. That means if you're a 00:19:58.240 --> 00:20:03.559 big platform, you will have more leverage to 00:20:03.559 --> 00:20:08.720 kind of negotiate with the state or to not regulate 00:20:08.720 --> 00:20:15.440 too much so that you won't push your users away. 00:20:20.490 --> 00:20:24.670 Was the moderation in Chinese social media different 00:20:24.670 --> 00:20:30.329 from their global platform? I think that's one 00:20:30.329 --> 00:20:36.049 big difference is that how relaxed your regulation 00:20:36.049 --> 00:20:40.990 or moderation is depends on the size of your 00:20:40.990 --> 00:20:43.890 platform. So it can actually become your leverage. 00:20:48.160 --> 00:20:51.299 And I'm not talking about a sock puppet account 00:20:51.299 --> 00:20:54.539 here where you probably wouldn't engage too much. 00:20:54.660 --> 00:20:59.160 But if, for example, you wanted to get your story 00:20:59.160 --> 00:21:02.380 out to Chinese audiences and you decided to publish 00:21:02.380 --> 00:21:05.380 on a Chinese platform, how would you know if 00:21:05.380 --> 00:21:08.619 your account is being restricted or shadow limited? 00:21:09.900 --> 00:21:15.240 Are there signs? And how do you maintain a normal 00:21:15.240 --> 00:21:20.329 looking account from outside China? Okay, so 00:21:20.329 --> 00:21:28.430 it depends. The platform that does the shadow 00:21:28.430 --> 00:21:35.390 ban, the most sneaky is Xiaohongshu. And they 00:21:35.390 --> 00:21:39.089 will shadow ban a lot of content for political 00:21:39.089 --> 00:21:44.009 content, or you simply can't publish any political 00:21:44.009 --> 00:21:48.690 content. without any permit or like state authorized 00:21:48.690 --> 00:21:52.690 permit. So they are really strict on political 00:21:52.690 --> 00:21:57.130 content. And you will know if you can see like 00:21:57.130 --> 00:22:01.750 the traffic. You can kind of sense based on the 00:22:01.750 --> 00:22:05.210 interaction or the traffic that shows on your 00:22:05.210 --> 00:22:10.809 phone. Oh no, like shows on your, on your post. 00:22:11.039 --> 00:22:14.440 So if you post something and then you realize, 00:22:14.559 --> 00:22:18.880 okay, it has zero views or very few views, that 00:22:18.880 --> 00:22:21.380 means like your shadow band or the traffic is 00:22:21.380 --> 00:22:27.200 restricted. So it's the same with Weibo, but 00:22:27.200 --> 00:22:31.259 in general, Weibo is more relaxed than Xiaohongshu. 00:22:31.579 --> 00:22:37.059 You can post many things, way more things on 00:22:37.059 --> 00:22:41.140 Weibo than Xiaohongshu. Also what I talk about, 00:22:41.480 --> 00:22:46.920 what I meant by leverage. So another thing I 00:22:46.920 --> 00:22:52.839 think is like, we chat, we chat, they have official 00:22:52.839 --> 00:22:56.220 accounts. So in general, I think like they are 00:22:56.220 --> 00:23:01.660 actually probably like the most, how can I say? 00:23:01.920 --> 00:23:03.519 They are probably like the most relaxed one. 00:23:03.640 --> 00:23:06.839 You can actually post more, more things there. 00:23:08.699 --> 00:23:13.759 But before you publish, for that one is, before 00:23:13.759 --> 00:23:17.839 you publish, they will give you a warning if 00:23:17.839 --> 00:23:21.259 something sensitive or censored words is included. 00:23:21.640 --> 00:23:24.380 And then you have to check yourself and revise 00:23:24.380 --> 00:23:28.240 to make it published. Once it's published, normally 00:23:28.240 --> 00:23:34.759 it should be fine. That means like it went through 00:23:34.759 --> 00:23:38.910 the test. it went through the test. Of course, 00:23:39.069 --> 00:23:44.349 it can be deleted later, but in general, you 00:23:44.349 --> 00:23:51.230 can post more things there than Xiaohongshu and 00:23:51.230 --> 00:23:55.170 probably even more than Weibo. That's really 00:23:55.170 --> 00:23:59.069 interesting. I'd love to revisit the conversation 00:23:59.069 --> 00:24:01.710 on verification on those platforms in a second. 00:24:01.750 --> 00:24:04.390 But I'm also conscious that we've got quite a 00:24:04.390 --> 00:24:06.910 few questions coming through. So I wanted to 00:24:06.910 --> 00:24:10.589 make sure that we answer those. Nick has mentioned, 00:24:10.890 --> 00:24:13.789 thank you for the great resources. You mentioned 00:24:13.789 --> 00:24:18.230 that Chinese authorities now view lying flat 00:24:18.230 --> 00:24:20.950 or Tangping as a foreign information operation. 00:24:21.210 --> 00:24:23.970 Are there reports verifying that these are targeted 00:24:23.970 --> 00:24:27.819 campaigns? Is there a way to kind of outline 00:24:27.819 --> 00:24:32.019 what are targeted campaigns on these social media 00:24:32.019 --> 00:24:35.180 sites. So we're talking about like the lying 00:24:35.180 --> 00:24:40.599 flat? No, no, they are definitely not targeted 00:24:40.599 --> 00:24:43.099 campaign. It's just they are trying to claim 00:24:43.099 --> 00:24:48.880 that way. This kind of links in with my question 00:24:48.880 --> 00:24:51.039 on verification, so perhaps I'll ask it now. 00:24:51.420 --> 00:24:53.640 For example, on Twitter, we used to have the 00:24:53.640 --> 00:24:56.670 blue tick. opportunity where you knew if someone 00:24:56.670 --> 00:24:59.269 was kind of verified on Twitter because of the 00:24:59.269 --> 00:25:02.529 blue tick, that's since kind of gone away. Now 00:25:02.529 --> 00:25:05.990 everyone can buy access to a blue tick. You mentioned 00:25:05.990 --> 00:25:09.990 that WeChat has official accounts. Do any of 00:25:09.990 --> 00:25:12.990 the popular Chinese social media platforms have 00:25:12.990 --> 00:25:15.910 this kind of verification feature in them so 00:25:15.910 --> 00:25:18.970 that you know whether you're talking to an official 00:25:18.970 --> 00:25:22.650 or whether you're viewing an official page? For 00:25:22.650 --> 00:25:25.430 example, do they have kind of verification features 00:25:25.430 --> 00:25:32.150 like that? For the WeChat official account, it's 00:25:32.150 --> 00:25:34.490 actually quite different from what we mean like 00:25:34.490 --> 00:25:38.000 a verified account. It's just a call that way. 00:25:38.660 --> 00:25:42.960 But it's just basically like a publishing platform 00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:48.980 that everyone can use. So even an individual 00:25:48.980 --> 00:25:54.140 can run an official account. But when you start, 00:25:54.900 --> 00:25:57.799 it's tied to your real name. It's your Chinese 00:25:57.799 --> 00:26:06.619 ID. And every ID can apply for open... find most 00:26:06.619 --> 00:26:11.619 accounts. At most. Yeah. So it's quite different 00:26:11.619 --> 00:26:21.099 from, it has nothing to do with like, it's not 00:26:21.099 --> 00:26:24.400 like a recognized reputation or anything like 00:26:24.400 --> 00:26:28.180 that. It just has its name. It's interesting 00:26:28.180 --> 00:26:31.299 that you can't separate the ID from the account 00:26:31.299 --> 00:26:34.269 though. Um, so you have businesses, I'm guessing 00:26:34.269 --> 00:26:38.049 on these platforms represented via someone's 00:26:38.049 --> 00:26:41.309 ID and employee's ID and et cetera like that 00:26:41.309 --> 00:26:44.609 on these platforms. Yeah, but yeah, yeah, that's 00:26:44.609 --> 00:26:47.990 true. But, but that also mean like if that account 00:26:47.990 --> 00:26:52.349 publish something like illegal or like a problematic 00:26:52.349 --> 00:26:57.410 and that people is like legally have to take 00:26:57.410 --> 00:27:00.700 the legal responsibility. Right. Interesting. 00:27:01.319 --> 00:27:08.039 Okay. Yeah, you'd have to be pretty confident 00:27:08.039 --> 00:27:11.559 in your workplace to kind of take on that kind 00:27:11.559 --> 00:27:19.400 of responsibility, hey? Carvin asks, any experiences 00:27:19.400 --> 00:27:23.160 of using different tools for scraping and analysing 00:27:23.160 --> 00:27:26.980 for Charonchou? Any recommended software, GitHub, 00:27:27.279 --> 00:27:30.640 for example? Um, have you had an experience scraping 00:27:30.640 --> 00:27:35.019 these social media sites? But I feel like there's 00:27:35.019 --> 00:27:37.660 any scraping tools for xiao hong shu is there. 00:27:37.859 --> 00:27:40.980 Um, like for, from my experience, like xiao hong 00:27:40.980 --> 00:27:43.940 shu, like they don't really have like that API 00:27:43.940 --> 00:27:48.940 open for like scraping. So any tools is actually 00:27:48.940 --> 00:27:55.079 not that, it can't like the scrape. Xiaohongshu 00:27:55.079 --> 00:27:57.700 can't be scraped like any other like Twitter 00:27:57.700 --> 00:28:01.339 what people do with Twitter like before people 00:28:01.339 --> 00:28:05.960 can do with Twitter before like basically you 00:28:05.960 --> 00:28:11.359 you scrape 10 or some posts and then it will 00:28:11.359 --> 00:28:15.460 cut off and you have to like kind of redo it 00:28:15.460 --> 00:28:20.220 basically like every 10 every 10 or 20 posts, 00:28:20.220 --> 00:28:24.460 you have to do it again. So it can never do anything 00:28:24.460 --> 00:28:31.099 like what people can do with Twitter. So it's 00:28:31.099 --> 00:28:34.559 a little bit more limited. Somebody said no way 00:28:34.559 --> 00:28:39.819 back machine for it. No, I don't think so. Unfortunately. 00:28:40.700 --> 00:28:42.819 Somebody else put in the chat, social media manager 00:28:42.819 --> 00:28:47.380 in China sounds like a risky job. Absolutely. 00:28:50.100 --> 00:28:53.440 Arcadia End has asked, thank you for the interesting 00:28:53.440 --> 00:28:56.339 talk. Is using China Digital Times the best way 00:28:56.339 --> 00:28:59.220 to track when articles have been deleted from 00:28:59.220 --> 00:29:01.500 WeChat accounts, et cetera, or is there a way 00:29:01.500 --> 00:29:04.259 to do it yourself? My interest area is quite 00:29:04.259 --> 00:29:08.000 niche and I feel China Digital Times is more 00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:11.720 focused on political economic topics. So is there 00:29:11.720 --> 00:29:15.460 a way to find out if articles have been deleted 00:29:15.460 --> 00:29:22.250 from WeChat accounts yourself? track when articles 00:29:22.250 --> 00:29:27.349 have been deleted through. But I think like that 00:29:27.349 --> 00:29:31.549 thing, the most thing, the main issue is like 00:29:31.549 --> 00:29:34.529 your judgment. You have to know which article 00:29:34.529 --> 00:29:38.150 might be deleted and then you can track. I think 00:29:38.150 --> 00:29:41.910 that's more like the political judgment. It's 00:29:41.910 --> 00:29:46.170 more important than actually the technical part. 00:29:46.519 --> 00:29:59.500 So for China Digital Times, I think China Digital 00:29:59.500 --> 00:30:05.039 Times, they do something like rescuing archiving. 00:30:05.359 --> 00:30:11.819 That means they would archive content that they 00:30:11.819 --> 00:30:15.460 think it might be deleted. but it might not, 00:30:17.019 --> 00:30:23.940 but there is a way, I think it has to be like 00:30:23.940 --> 00:30:27.180 what are you going to, because there are tons 00:30:27.180 --> 00:30:29.799 of articles, what articles are you going to, 00:30:29.799 --> 00:30:36.920 do you want to follow, or is there a specific 00:30:36.920 --> 00:30:41.339 content or topic that you actually want to follow? 00:30:41.599 --> 00:30:45.799 So I think that's the judgment to set your tracker, 00:30:47.420 --> 00:30:54.279 like what kind of things you want to track. Thanks 00:30:54.279 --> 00:30:58.200 for that. There's been quite a conversation in 00:30:58.200 --> 00:31:02.140 the chat about Chinese names and English names 00:31:02.140 --> 00:31:05.190 and then not translating. back -to -back. I wondered 00:31:05.190 --> 00:31:08.269 if we could dig a little bit deeper into, you 00:31:08.269 --> 00:31:11.730 mentioned that you'd recommend people searching 00:31:11.730 --> 00:31:15.130 in Chinese rather than searching in English or 00:31:15.130 --> 00:31:19.009 another language on these platforms. Do you have 00:31:19.009 --> 00:31:25.109 any tips for figuring out keyword searching given 00:31:25.109 --> 00:31:28.769 language nuances and censorship sensitivities? 00:31:29.009 --> 00:31:31.390 Are there tools, translation services or workflows? 00:31:31.799 --> 00:31:34.440 that you recommend for non -Chinese speakers 00:31:34.440 --> 00:31:38.119 when looking for these kind of keywords perhaps 00:31:38.119 --> 00:31:45.579 along trends or niche topics? I think actually 00:31:45.579 --> 00:31:54.579 China Digital Times, it's a great resource. Let 00:31:54.579 --> 00:31:57.279 me see if I can find it. I think they are a great... 00:31:58.579 --> 00:32:01.200 The resource, they have like everything. They 00:32:01.200 --> 00:32:03.839 also have a database, kind of like a kind of 00:32:03.839 --> 00:32:07.400 database with the least censored words list and 00:32:07.400 --> 00:32:12.960 also with explanation for why certain words is 00:32:12.960 --> 00:32:18.279 censored. Yeah, I think that's the best go -to 00:32:18.279 --> 00:32:23.759 resource to use. So don't rely on Google Translate. 00:32:24.240 --> 00:32:27.559 No, I think the good thing with China Digital 00:32:27.559 --> 00:32:35.039 Time is like they have an English version. Really 00:32:35.039 --> 00:32:40.359 useful. Someone's just put in the chat, there's 00:32:40.359 --> 00:32:45.779 a tracker for WeChat on greatfire .org for anybody 00:32:45.779 --> 00:32:49.529 who's looking for that. We've had a few other 00:32:49.529 --> 00:32:53.549 questions coming in. Someone asked earlier, would 00:32:53.549 --> 00:32:56.490 using a Chinese phone make tracking Chinese social 00:32:56.490 --> 00:33:00.009 media easier in some ways? Am I right in thinking 00:33:00.009 --> 00:33:02.049 that if you had a Chinese phone, you'd still 00:33:02.049 --> 00:33:05.309 need a Chinese ID, is that correct? Or would 00:33:05.309 --> 00:33:10.029 a mobile device be sufficient enough? Yeah, but 00:33:10.029 --> 00:33:13.289 the thing with Chinese phone is like you need 00:33:13.289 --> 00:33:20.250 a Chinese ID to get a Chinese phone number. So 00:33:20.250 --> 00:33:23.890 yes, of course, having a Chinese phone will make 00:33:23.890 --> 00:33:28.890 that easy, but then you will need someone or 00:33:28.890 --> 00:33:32.309 someone who has a Chinese ID to buy that phone 00:33:32.309 --> 00:33:36.650 number for you. That means that person will be 00:33:36.650 --> 00:33:40.099 responsible for everything. And as a follow -up, 00:33:40.220 --> 00:33:42.039 someone's asked, and I think you touched on this 00:33:42.039 --> 00:33:46.079 in the talk, but maybe we could just recap. For 00:33:46.079 --> 00:33:48.759 platforms that require a phone, is there a method 00:33:48.759 --> 00:33:53.799 for non -mainland people to access? So is there 00:33:53.799 --> 00:33:57.200 a method to access those platforms without making 00:33:57.200 --> 00:34:02.859 an account? There are ways, but I don't think 00:34:02.859 --> 00:34:10.460 we should probably discuss it. Not open source 00:34:10.460 --> 00:34:18.619 ways. Not open source ways. Yes. Take that to 00:34:18.619 --> 00:34:22.760 direct message. Yes, exactly. Thanks guys for 00:34:22.760 --> 00:34:26.079 the comments there. We've had a few other questions 00:34:26.079 --> 00:34:30.739 about, would your previous content on other platforms 00:34:30.739 --> 00:34:34.000 be an issue? For example, Not Going to Look said, 00:34:34.199 --> 00:34:37.239 would your ex content be an issue? I speak amongst 00:34:37.239 --> 00:34:39.360 some interesting people. I also witnessed as 00:34:39.559 --> 00:34:43.260 Romani means I may or may not have spoken of 00:34:43.260 --> 00:34:45.579 political arcs, though I only have ever mentioned 00:34:45.579 --> 00:34:52.480 Chinese state once. Would your behaviour on other 00:34:52.480 --> 00:34:56.179 platforms impact your ability to register on 00:34:56.179 --> 00:35:01.820 these? No, no. As long as you don't public talk 00:35:01.820 --> 00:35:04.860 too much about China, it's fine. And then someone 00:35:04.860 --> 00:35:07.380 else has asked on the censorship issue, how much 00:35:07.380 --> 00:35:09.579 censorship is done by the platforms versus how 00:35:09.579 --> 00:35:12.480 much is done by the CAC? Does the CAC have staff 00:35:12.480 --> 00:35:14.659 that work in the platform? So do they just provide 00:35:14.659 --> 00:35:17.699 guidance to platforms on what to censor? Where 00:35:17.699 --> 00:35:21.699 are the censorship lines? So for the censorship 00:35:21.699 --> 00:35:25.880 line, I like during my, I think like in a previous 00:35:25.880 --> 00:35:31.599 answers, I have mentioned that CAC, they set 00:35:31.599 --> 00:35:35.519 up their red line. And that red line is evolving 00:35:35.519 --> 00:35:40.960 over time. That means there are the absolute 00:35:40.960 --> 00:35:44.420 taboo that you are now allowed to discuss on 00:35:44.420 --> 00:35:48.920 social media. For example, Xi Jinping or all 00:35:48.920 --> 00:35:56.889 kinds of his nicknames. are becoming the expanding 00:35:56.889 --> 00:36:00.250 database of the red line. So they are the one 00:36:00.250 --> 00:36:09.969 who set up those red lines. And beyond that red 00:36:09.969 --> 00:36:13.289 lines, the platform, they have their own autonomy 00:36:13.289 --> 00:36:16.829 to decide how much or how relaxed or how tight 00:36:16.829 --> 00:36:25.000 they want the censorship. In general, Weibo based 00:36:25.000 --> 00:36:29.539 on beyond the guidance provided by CAC, they 00:36:29.539 --> 00:36:38.059 have more autonomy to decide what to keep. So 00:36:38.059 --> 00:36:41.340 you can actually see quite a lot of resistance 00:36:41.340 --> 00:36:48.010 or like rebel statements on Weibo. But there 00:36:48.010 --> 00:36:53.769 is another platform, it's called Douban. So it's 00:36:53.769 --> 00:36:58.170 like Chinese version of good rate. Usually people 00:36:58.170 --> 00:37:04.769 use that for reviewing books and movies. And 00:37:04.769 --> 00:37:08.269 people also use that as a social platform to 00:37:08.269 --> 00:37:12.019 share opinions. So for that one, they probably 00:37:12.019 --> 00:37:24.559 have the tightest control or even more than the 00:37:24.559 --> 00:37:33.239 CAC guidance. Because it's a small platform and 00:37:33.239 --> 00:37:39.909 their users are more smarter in... in expressing 00:37:39.909 --> 00:37:45.889 their political view or their resistance. So 00:37:45.889 --> 00:37:51.389 they have more rules there, so it's tighter. 00:37:51.789 --> 00:37:54.849 And also because it's a smaller platform, so 00:37:54.849 --> 00:37:58.469 they don't really have that many leverage. So 00:37:58.469 --> 00:38:03.489 they want to, for their own survival reason, 00:38:03.849 --> 00:38:10.659 they want to keep the censorship tighter. In 00:38:10.659 --> 00:38:15.619 regards to finding ways that people are speaking 00:38:15.619 --> 00:38:20.800 about potentially taboo subjects on these platforms, 00:38:22.059 --> 00:38:24.099 somebody's put, I've seen in the past that Chinese 00:38:24.099 --> 00:38:27.179 users will use homonyms of censored words. Is 00:38:27.179 --> 00:38:30.840 this still a tactic being used to evade the censors? 00:38:30.960 --> 00:38:33.559 And somebody else earlier asked if there was 00:38:33.559 --> 00:38:38.090 any resources for finding ways that people were 00:38:38.090 --> 00:38:42.650 like terms that people were using to discuss 00:38:42.650 --> 00:38:46.329 more taboo subjects. Is there resources like 00:38:46.329 --> 00:38:50.349 that available? Yeah, that's still a tactic. 00:38:50.769 --> 00:38:53.449 And you can also find those kind of like the 00:38:53.449 --> 00:38:56.690 database of the this kind of word list on China 00:38:56.690 --> 00:38:59.989 digital times. They have like a system, they 00:38:59.989 --> 00:39:04.849 systematically like document all of this, all 00:39:04.849 --> 00:39:10.300 of this words. and also for not just censor wars 00:39:10.300 --> 00:39:13.559 but like a new phenomenon it's probably I'm not 00:39:13.559 --> 00:39:16.119 sure how many of you have followed China's politics 00:39:16.119 --> 00:39:21.960 but like the nickname of Xi Jinping because every 00:39:21.960 --> 00:39:24.900 people can't talk about his name and most people 00:39:24.900 --> 00:39:27.579 probably the thing most people know probably 00:39:27.579 --> 00:39:32.590 like Winnie the Pooh but after that Because all 00:39:32.590 --> 00:39:36.570 the things related to him is so heavily censored. 00:39:37.170 --> 00:39:40.829 So people just keep coming up with new ways to 00:39:40.829 --> 00:39:46.610 name him. So that itself is an expanding database. 00:39:50.170 --> 00:39:53.510 That's great. Thank you. Questions keep coming 00:39:53.510 --> 00:39:58.230 in. We've got about 15 minutes. So please do 00:39:58.230 --> 00:40:02.309 pop your final... Final questions in for the 00:40:02.309 --> 00:40:07.909 last 15 minutes. I wanted to ask how much impact 00:40:07.909 --> 00:40:11.909 has AI had on how Chinese audiences converse 00:40:11.909 --> 00:40:14.349 online? Obviously we're seeing a huge impact 00:40:14.349 --> 00:40:20.539 of how it's impacting more Western facing. social 00:40:20.539 --> 00:40:24.800 media platforms with Trump, for example, consistently 00:40:24.800 --> 00:40:30.739 publishing AI imagery and also being part of 00:40:30.739 --> 00:40:34.639 daily use. I mean, X has its own and Meta both 00:40:34.639 --> 00:40:39.639 have their own AI generation chatbots now. How 00:40:39.639 --> 00:40:42.460 much impact has AI had on how Chinese audiences 00:40:42.460 --> 00:40:44.980 converse online and the platforms themselves? 00:40:45.099 --> 00:40:48.519 Do they have any AI chatbots embedded or anything 00:40:48.519 --> 00:40:52.820 like that? Yeah, I think like every, even Xiaohongshu 00:40:52.820 --> 00:40:59.139 had the embedded AI search engine. And I think 00:40:59.139 --> 00:41:03.699 like one of the interesting thing with AI is 00:41:03.699 --> 00:41:10.599 actually how, because Cloudy, it's not accessible 00:41:10.599 --> 00:41:16.250 in mainland China. So that's a I think like that's 00:41:16.250 --> 00:41:18.449 an interesting phenomenon that you can see people 00:41:18.449 --> 00:41:21.349 how people discuss like how you can invade that 00:41:21.349 --> 00:41:26.590 kind of a geoblock How to get a Gmail like how 00:41:26.590 --> 00:41:32.030 to actually use the real AI a lot of people I'm 00:41:32.030 --> 00:41:34.570 sure I can see a lot of the discussions how people 00:41:34.570 --> 00:41:38.070 want to Because like for them, this is also some 00:41:38.070 --> 00:41:43.829 the reverse censorship in a way for them So I 00:41:43.829 --> 00:41:46.269 can see a lot of discussion about how they can 00:41:46.269 --> 00:41:52.469 actually got access, how to avoid being disabled, 00:41:53.389 --> 00:41:58.449 disbanded by Claudia. So that's the discussion 00:41:58.449 --> 00:42:06.550 I've seen. For the domestic AI models, I think 00:42:06.550 --> 00:42:16.219 like most people use it for fun. People won't 00:42:16.219 --> 00:42:21.239 use it for research, but mainly use it for silly 00:42:21.239 --> 00:42:26.519 reactions about ordering their delivery food, 00:42:26.960 --> 00:42:31.500 how to best order delivery food, and how to dress, 00:42:32.500 --> 00:42:36.690 how to decide their dress code or outfit. daily 00:42:36.690 --> 00:42:39.889 outfit. I think that's what I have seen most. 00:42:40.309 --> 00:42:43.530 For research purposes, people want to use a Cloudy 00:42:43.530 --> 00:42:48.909 or Gemini, but the geoblock is an issue for them. 00:42:50.630 --> 00:42:55.329 Are you also seeing AI being used for misinformation 00:42:55.329 --> 00:43:00.389 on the platform as well? Do you often see misinformation 00:43:00.389 --> 00:43:03.949 and disinformation being shared on Chinese platforms 00:43:03.949 --> 00:43:08.760 as commonly as we see on more globalized social 00:43:08.760 --> 00:43:12.760 media platforms. Obviously it's a huge issue 00:43:12.760 --> 00:43:16.760 over here. I'm wondering if there's similar issues 00:43:16.760 --> 00:43:20.400 on being able to assess credibility on these 00:43:20.400 --> 00:43:24.219 platforms as we talked about earlier with the 00:43:24.219 --> 00:43:29.420 difficulty with verification as well. Yeah, but 00:43:29.420 --> 00:43:34.320 I think the thing with AI usage within China, 00:43:34.579 --> 00:43:37.500 the thing is like a lot of people, I think they 00:43:37.500 --> 00:43:42.219 still even don't realize how sensitive the content 00:43:42.219 --> 00:43:48.880 in Chinese are. So a lot of them won't actually 00:43:48.880 --> 00:43:54.539 realize the content they see on the AI. It's 00:43:54.539 --> 00:43:57.960 actually biased or like it can even be like disinformation. 00:43:58.280 --> 00:44:01.820 So I think that's the one thing to work on is 00:44:01.820 --> 00:44:06.840 the media literacy, which is really bad in so 00:44:06.840 --> 00:44:11.760 many ways in China. So I think the problem is 00:44:11.760 --> 00:44:14.780 a lot of people don't realize or haven't realized. 00:44:16.500 --> 00:44:19.260 But people have this sense, you can't trust the 00:44:19.260 --> 00:44:23.300 AI on everything. Well, I'm glad to hear that. 00:44:24.280 --> 00:44:27.639 We've got one question on Chinese corporate aggregators. 00:44:27.760 --> 00:44:29.920 It seems like the last of the Chinese corporate 00:44:29.920 --> 00:44:32.480 aggregators have been blocked outside of mainland 00:44:32.480 --> 00:44:35.139 China in the past month or so. Are any other 00:44:35.139 --> 00:44:38.079 recommendations or workarounds for those? Do 00:44:38.079 --> 00:44:40.820 you have any familiarity with the corporate aggregators? 00:44:42.760 --> 00:44:48.960 Yes. So the recommendation for that one, you 00:44:48.960 --> 00:44:54.369 actually have to use the VPN to the tour to China 00:44:54.369 --> 00:44:58.429 to the Chinese IP and then you can have the access 00:44:58.429 --> 00:45:02.269 from there. But then the problem is like you 00:45:02.269 --> 00:45:05.309 also you need a phone number, a Chinese phone 00:45:05.309 --> 00:45:10.530 number to actually access those aggregators. 00:45:12.250 --> 00:45:17.010 That's the main issue than just the VPN. Yeah, 00:45:17.110 --> 00:45:22.619 but I want just say the name of the VPN, but 00:45:22.619 --> 00:45:27.199 you need a VPN to, to a Chinese Ikey. And then 00:45:27.199 --> 00:45:31.280 you can, it can work. Thanks for that tip. VPNs 00:45:31.280 --> 00:45:36.860 are needed more and more. Even in the UK, I can't 00:45:36.860 --> 00:45:41.500 read blue sky DMs without a VPN on at the moment. 00:45:42.219 --> 00:45:46.670 So, yes, it's a thing. Going back to the censorship 00:45:46.670 --> 00:45:48.829 question, we've just had one come in. How does 00:45:48.829 --> 00:45:51.570 the CAC and platform moderation affect Hong Kong 00:45:51.570 --> 00:45:53.829 users? Are the platforms the same in Hong Kong 00:45:53.829 --> 00:45:58.750 as mainland China now? So the thing is like, 00:45:58.889 --> 00:46:01.789 it's not about like the location of the user, 00:46:02.110 --> 00:46:07.869 more the platform of the user. The problem is 00:46:07.869 --> 00:46:10.369 not location of the users, but the platform itself. 00:46:10.699 --> 00:46:16.199 So even the Hong Kong users, if they are subject 00:46:16.199 --> 00:46:19.539 to the CAC regulation, if they're on Weibo or 00:46:19.539 --> 00:46:23.920 like Douyin, or maybe if they use TikTok, it 00:46:23.920 --> 00:46:27.260 can be better. But if they use all the others, 00:46:27.619 --> 00:46:30.360 Weibo, Xiaohongshu, which a lot of people are 00:46:30.360 --> 00:46:36.889 using. So they will definitely subject to the 00:46:36.889 --> 00:46:40.409 CAC moderation. So it has nothing to do with 00:46:40.409 --> 00:46:42.929 the location. We're all like mainland or Hong 00:46:42.929 --> 00:46:45.829 Kong. It's more about the platform itself, where 00:46:45.829 --> 00:46:49.530 the platform is located. And is that the same 00:46:49.530 --> 00:46:54.250 for if you never use Chinese language on the 00:46:54.250 --> 00:46:56.750 account? So if you've, for example, as you were 00:46:56.750 --> 00:47:00.510 saying on Red Note, if you've kind of logged 00:47:00.510 --> 00:47:06.179 in with an English language setting, you're still 00:47:06.179 --> 00:47:09.019 being censored in the same way. So for example, 00:47:09.039 --> 00:47:12.920 if you try to post on a word that's censored, 00:47:13.619 --> 00:47:16.179 you'd still be censored despite it being in English, 00:47:16.480 --> 00:47:23.059 correct? Yeah. I'm really sorry if I pronounce 00:47:23.059 --> 00:47:28.559 this incorrectly, but for Wisin and WeChat, there 00:47:28.559 --> 00:47:30.579 is a difference between user agreements, right? 00:47:30.679 --> 00:47:32.699 Is that similar for any of the other platforms? 00:47:35.159 --> 00:47:40.239 So for the Wisin and WeChat, it's like one is 00:47:40.239 --> 00:47:42.780 for the user within China, the other is like 00:47:42.780 --> 00:47:45.960 users outside of China. The user agreements, 00:47:46.679 --> 00:47:50.360 whatever they say in the agreements, it's... 00:47:50.320 --> 00:47:55.139 The main difference is where the data is stored, 00:47:55.280 --> 00:48:00.320 like where they store their data. So that's the 00:48:00.320 --> 00:48:09.699 main difference. And WeChat is the same and Xiaohongshu 00:48:09.699 --> 00:48:12.440 is still the same. Even they have the international 00:48:12.440 --> 00:48:16.619 split so far, it's still like having the same 00:48:16.619 --> 00:48:22.070 data. have the data saved at the same place. 00:48:22.969 --> 00:48:29.769 For the different ways, Douyin and TikTok, it's 00:48:29.769 --> 00:48:39.469 different. So they store their user data at different 00:48:39.469 --> 00:48:42.530 places. So I think there are two approaches. 00:48:43.050 --> 00:48:48.500 So one is to store data at separate places or 00:48:48.500 --> 00:48:52.699 still use the same one. So far, we still can't 00:48:52.699 --> 00:48:57.420 see because it's still early stage to say where 00:48:57.420 --> 00:49:00.420 they're heading to. But so far, it's still the 00:49:00.420 --> 00:49:09.110 same. We don't encourage quick turnaround stories 00:49:09.110 --> 00:49:12.769 at Bellingcat. We're very much a long -form kind 00:49:12.769 --> 00:49:16.010 of platform. But let's just say, for example, 00:49:16.150 --> 00:49:19.909 you're working at a more breaking news newsroom 00:49:19.909 --> 00:49:25.349 and you need to find out quickly. what the Chinese 00:49:25.349 --> 00:49:27.730 audiences are saying on a particular political 00:49:27.730 --> 00:49:31.250 issue. What would be your advice to someone who's 00:49:31.250 --> 00:49:37.050 coming in really fresh and needs a quick answer 00:49:37.050 --> 00:49:39.590 to how Chinese audiences are reacting to a particular 00:49:39.590 --> 00:49:42.349 political issue quickly? What would be your step 00:49:42.349 --> 00:49:45.969 -by -step guidance on that if you're looking 00:49:45.969 --> 00:49:50.869 for breaking responses on Chinese social media? 00:49:52.670 --> 00:50:01.250 Breaking responses. I think the first place I 00:50:01.250 --> 00:50:06.369 would choose would be Weibo. That's where, like 00:50:06.369 --> 00:50:10.030 I mentioned during the presentation, that's the 00:50:10.030 --> 00:50:13.409 de facto public square. So you can see a lot 00:50:13.409 --> 00:50:16.329 of other breaking responses or breaking news 00:50:16.329 --> 00:50:19.920 are discussed there. That's all the discussion 00:50:19.920 --> 00:50:24.280 is happening. So just go there and see what people 00:50:24.280 --> 00:50:28.699 are discussing or especially look at the comment 00:50:28.699 --> 00:50:32.099 section. I think comment section is a goldmine 00:50:32.099 --> 00:50:35.139 where you can actually see what the normal people 00:50:35.139 --> 00:50:39.699 might respond or what they actually think. This 00:50:39.699 --> 00:50:45.059 is actually one takeaway. I have done like China 00:50:45.059 --> 00:50:48.219 studies for many years. Um, so I think like this 00:50:48.219 --> 00:50:51.920 is, uh, uh, this is the thing. It's like when 00:50:51.920 --> 00:50:55.239 people see the breaking news or breaking response, 00:50:55.960 --> 00:50:58.280 they first think like, Oh, China said blah, blah, 00:50:58.280 --> 00:51:02.599 blah. Or like China invading Taiwan or something. 00:51:03.239 --> 00:51:07.039 Um, or like, uh, all, all the Chinese people 00:51:07.039 --> 00:51:09.099 are supporting the government, either supporting 00:51:09.099 --> 00:51:15.190 the government or, um, um, being there. dissident, 00:51:15.769 --> 00:51:19.510 but it's actually quite a nuance, way more nuanced 00:51:19.510 --> 00:51:23.230 than that. And a lot of it like in between. So 00:51:23.230 --> 00:51:26.889 even people, maybe they don't dislike the government, 00:51:27.289 --> 00:51:29.690 but they also have their own dissatisfaction. 00:51:30.170 --> 00:51:33.070 So I think like the common section is where you 00:51:33.070 --> 00:51:35.610 can actually find this kind of nuances where 00:51:35.610 --> 00:51:38.849 what actually the actual people. are thinking 00:51:38.849 --> 00:51:43.230 or what the actual people are saying. So I think 00:51:43.230 --> 00:51:50.349 that's the thing often absent from reporting. 00:51:51.630 --> 00:51:54.530 Thanks for that guidance. It's really good to 00:51:54.530 --> 00:51:56.889 know. Someone's put in the chat, comment section 00:51:56.889 --> 00:52:01.230 is a goldmine is so, so true. So definitely check 00:52:01.230 --> 00:52:04.179 those out. We had a comment earlier that was 00:52:04.179 --> 00:52:06.380 asking for a follow -up on the corporate aggregators, 00:52:06.659 --> 00:52:08.840 whether having a Taiwanese phone number helps 00:52:08.840 --> 00:52:14.340 access them. And somebody in the chat has suggested 00:52:14.340 --> 00:52:20.480 they're all Chinese only, I'm afraid, or VPN. 00:52:21.920 --> 00:52:26.860 So that's your solution there. Yeah, thanks so 00:52:26.860 --> 00:52:30.460 much guys for your comments. We have five more 00:52:30.460 --> 00:52:32.800 minutes, so if you have a final question, please 00:52:32.800 --> 00:52:37.960 do put it in the chat. You mentioned loads of 00:52:37.960 --> 00:52:44.420 resources in regards to training the algorithm 00:52:44.420 --> 00:52:47.460 towards your research interests. For example, 00:52:47.460 --> 00:52:50.440 if you make a sockpuppet account, an account 00:52:50.440 --> 00:52:54.599 where you are trying to focus on one specific 00:52:55.220 --> 00:52:58.780 topic. What's the best way to kind of train that 00:52:58.780 --> 00:53:02.460 on the different social media accounts that you've 00:53:02.460 --> 00:53:06.500 mentioned? Xiaohongshu I'm guessing is more of 00:53:06.500 --> 00:53:09.500 a continuously searching the keywords and liking 00:53:09.500 --> 00:53:13.219 content like that. Do you need to comment on 00:53:13.219 --> 00:53:16.280 items for it to be fed to you on some of these? 00:53:16.320 --> 00:53:19.519 How do the algorithms work in regards to trying 00:53:19.519 --> 00:53:22.659 to tailor your feed into the topic area that 00:53:22.659 --> 00:53:28.619 you're trying to research? So I think for Weibo, 00:53:29.039 --> 00:53:34.039 that's two of the platforms people use the most. 00:53:34.519 --> 00:53:38.880 And I think Weibo is quite simple. You just follow 00:53:38.880 --> 00:53:43.599 other opinion leaders or influencers. You follow 00:53:43.599 --> 00:53:48.590 them and they will repost some... they will repost 00:53:48.590 --> 00:53:54.429 when some viral event happens. And then you will 00:53:54.429 --> 00:53:59.349 see that's a way, you can use that one as a starting 00:53:59.349 --> 00:54:02.849 point, entry point. And then you can find more. 00:54:04.449 --> 00:54:07.690 So basically you want to... let the algorithm 00:54:07.690 --> 00:54:10.570 know what kind of people you want to follow and 00:54:10.570 --> 00:54:13.769 it will give you a recommendation. I recently 00:54:13.769 --> 00:54:19.130 tried. It's actually quite accurate. So if you 00:54:19.130 --> 00:54:26.489 follow some liberal bloggers with liberal views, 00:54:27.090 --> 00:54:29.829 and if you follow one, it will recommend you 00:54:29.829 --> 00:54:34.780 several more. It's actually quite accurate. And 00:54:34.780 --> 00:54:39.380 then if you want to follow the nationalist side 00:54:39.380 --> 00:54:45.179 of their block, how they respond to official 00:54:45.179 --> 00:54:48.639 framing, or how they amplify the state voices, 00:54:49.519 --> 00:54:53.570 you can actually follow, I think like in... previous 00:54:53.570 --> 00:54:56.469 reports, people have already identified the networks 00:54:56.469 --> 00:55:00.670 of those kind of national list of bloggers. So 00:55:00.670 --> 00:55:04.269 it's actually very easy to find one and then 00:55:04.269 --> 00:55:07.909 you can very easily to identify the network. 00:55:09.050 --> 00:55:13.449 I can try to find that one, the article, but 00:55:13.449 --> 00:55:16.510 it was back then it's basically a network of 00:55:16.510 --> 00:55:22.210 amplified state points. So basically I think 00:55:22.210 --> 00:55:26.179 the the whole point is what kind of you want 00:55:26.179 --> 00:55:28.440 to write or like if you work as a researcher 00:55:28.440 --> 00:55:32.360 or like a journalist what's your beat or what's 00:55:32.360 --> 00:55:34.780 your focus or like what's your topic and I think 00:55:34.780 --> 00:55:38.360 after that you will figure out who or what to 00:55:38.360 --> 00:55:40.400 follow and for xiao hong shu I think it's quite 00:55:40.400 --> 00:55:48.880 easy you just search and search the topic then 00:55:48.880 --> 00:56:03.059 you have to be creative What are the things in 00:56:03.059 --> 00:56:08.079 between the whole workflow? How you can cut the 00:56:08.079 --> 00:56:11.280 workflow into different pieces that you can actually 00:56:11.280 --> 00:56:16.619 try to match your keywords, search word or keywords. 00:56:16.889 --> 00:56:20.050 with the process. It's the same with doing an 00:56:20.050 --> 00:56:23.030 open source investigation or it's like you have 00:56:23.030 --> 00:56:25.789 to be creative. You have to understand like how 00:56:25.789 --> 00:56:30.429 things work and where you can actually find the 00:56:30.429 --> 00:56:33.909 thing to cut in. It's going to put your problem 00:56:33.909 --> 00:56:37.190 solving skills to the test. Well, unfortunately 00:56:37.190 --> 00:56:39.690 we're coming to time, but if people want to feed 00:56:39.690 --> 00:56:43.530 back or if they just have follow -up questions, 00:56:43.769 --> 00:56:48.420 where can they get in contact with you? They 00:56:48.420 --> 00:56:51.559 can contact me. I have a LinkedIn. I think that's 00:56:51.559 --> 00:57:01.639 probably the best way to reach you. Oh, no, sorry. 00:57:03.239 --> 00:57:07.940 It's okay. I can probably add it in. And again, 00:57:08.199 --> 00:57:12.579 please do take some time to have a look at her 00:57:12.579 --> 00:57:17.260 fabulous guide into red notes. really worth looking 00:57:17.260 --> 00:57:21.559 at and learning from. There's some really useful 00:57:21.559 --> 00:57:26.780 tips in there that everybody hopefully can learn 00:57:26.780 --> 00:57:29.079 from. And if you're interested in talking about 00:57:29.079 --> 00:57:33.400 this subject further, by all means, we have spaces 00:57:33.400 --> 00:57:36.420 within the stage talk. Ah, you found your LinkedIn. 00:57:36.500 --> 00:57:38.469 I was just posting it here. Thanks for that. 00:57:38.670 --> 00:57:42.570 We have a space to talk about the tools and sites 00:57:42.570 --> 00:57:46.289 where you can post useful things. You can also 00:57:46.289 --> 00:57:52.340 use InfoSec to talk about digital security. Central 00:57:52.340 --> 00:57:56.079 Asia, a space where we talk a lot about Chinese 00:57:56.079 --> 00:57:59.000 news as well. So please do use those spaces in 00:57:59.000 --> 00:58:01.519 the Discord as well to dig further into this. 00:58:01.719 --> 00:58:03.980 But for now, thank you everybody for listening 00:58:03.980 --> 00:58:06.940 and thank you two for coming in to talk to us. 00:58:07.019 --> 00:58:08.920 We'll be back in two weeks time with another 00:58:08.920 --> 00:58:11.840 stage talk. But for now guys, happy reading the 00:58:11.840 --> 00:58:14.360 guide and good luck with your little puzzle. 00:58:15.300 --> 00:58:19.039 All right, thank you so much all. Thank you for 00:58:19.039 --> 00:58:21.829 listening to the stage talk. If you'd like to 00:58:21.829 --> 00:58:24.730 catch a stage tour live where you can ask the 00:58:24.730 --> 00:58:27.489 guest questions, join the Bellingcat Discord 00:58:27.489 --> 00:58:34.150 server by visiting www .discord .gg slash Bellingcat. 00:58:34.630 --> 00:58:37.750 The music you've heard is titled Dawn by Newer 00:58:37.750 --> 00:58:40.210 Self and is courtesy of Artlist.