WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.220 Okay, welcome to the AdaptX podcast where we 00:00:02.220 --> 00:00:03.899 have conversations with individuals building 00:00:03.899 --> 00:00:06.179 accessible businesses advocating for inclusion 00:00:06.179 --> 00:00:09.080 or excelling in adaptive sports. Today I'm joined 00:00:09.080 --> 00:00:11.720 by Lacey Artemis, a neurodiversity and accessibility 00:00:11.720 --> 00:00:14.060 advocate, consultant and speaker from Toronto, 00:00:14.060 --> 00:00:16.219 Canada. She's passionate about helping people 00:00:16.219 --> 00:00:18.320 and focuses on helping organizations, venues 00:00:18.320 --> 00:00:20.660 and event organizers adapt their systems, spaces 00:00:20.660 --> 00:00:23.179 and experiences to be more neuro -inclusive. 00:00:23.399 --> 00:00:28.179 Lacey, thanks for joining me. I'd like to start 00:00:28.179 --> 00:00:32.140 with maybe how you pursued this career combination 00:00:32.140 --> 00:00:35.700 of personal and professional experiences. But 00:00:35.700 --> 00:00:38.359 what were you particularly interested in growing 00:00:38.359 --> 00:00:44.719 up? I have changed a lot since I was a kid. So 00:00:44.719 --> 00:00:47.240 I am kind of in a whole different world now than 00:00:47.240 --> 00:00:52.250 I was. I was diagnosed with I was diagnosed as 00:00:52.250 --> 00:00:55.869 autistic in my late 20s, so I kind of lived most 00:00:55.869 --> 00:00:59.210 of my adult life knowing I was different, but 00:00:59.210 --> 00:01:03.250 not knowing why until I found that. When I was 00:01:03.250 --> 00:01:07.030 younger, I always knew that I was creative and 00:01:07.030 --> 00:01:10.890 I tried to go to college for design and I loved 00:01:10.890 --> 00:01:12.810 the classes that I was taking, the things I was 00:01:12.810 --> 00:01:16.250 learning, but the professors made it pretty clear 00:01:16.250 --> 00:01:19.640 that It's really hard to make a living to support 00:01:19.640 --> 00:01:22.739 yourself as like a professional artist and they 00:01:22.739 --> 00:01:26.040 were not wrong. So from a lot of the things that 00:01:26.040 --> 00:01:28.159 they were saying, I was like, okay, I don't want 00:01:28.159 --> 00:01:29.920 to end up hating this. I don't want to be miserable 00:01:29.920 --> 00:01:33.019 and broke my whole life. So I went, I switched 00:01:33.019 --> 00:01:35.959 tracks and I went and got like a safe job. I 00:01:35.959 --> 00:01:38.299 got a, I went into accounting, which worked well 00:01:38.299 --> 00:01:41.939 with my autism. I did that for a long time, but 00:01:41.939 --> 00:01:44.379 I was never really like happy in it. It was just 00:01:44.379 --> 00:01:47.670 like, I'm good at this and it pays the bills. 00:01:48.510 --> 00:01:50.250 So, you know, it's the quote unquote good enough 00:01:50.250 --> 00:01:54.269 job. But I just knew that I was capable of more 00:01:54.269 --> 00:01:58.150 and I wanted to do more. And last year in 2024, 00:01:58.370 --> 00:02:04.109 I finally broke away from that field. And I'd 00:02:04.109 --> 00:02:07.650 started to notice over the last few years that, 00:02:07.650 --> 00:02:10.969 like, I have sensory issues as a lot of neurodivergent 00:02:10.969 --> 00:02:15.090 people do. And I was frustrated that a lot of 00:02:15.090 --> 00:02:17.650 venues and a lot of events were just completely 00:02:17.650 --> 00:02:19.969 not, like, conscious or considerate of that at 00:02:19.969 --> 00:02:22.129 all. So there'd be, like, music playing at a 00:02:22.129 --> 00:02:23.930 social event, and, like, how am I supposed to 00:02:23.930 --> 00:02:25.469 talk to people and meet them and get to know 00:02:25.469 --> 00:02:27.330 them when I have to, like, yell to hear them? 00:02:27.710 --> 00:02:30.370 And, like, you know, different things with, like, 00:02:30.469 --> 00:02:33.030 lighting or scents or other things, like, it 00:02:33.030 --> 00:02:34.569 just started to get really frustrating. And I 00:02:34.569 --> 00:02:37.069 was like, somebody needs to do something about 00:02:37.069 --> 00:02:39.169 this. Well, I guess I am somebody. I guess I 00:02:39.169 --> 00:02:42.689 could do something about it. So I started to 00:02:43.390 --> 00:02:46.969 plan and run my own events with that in mind 00:02:46.969 --> 00:02:49.569 of finding venues that were quiet and that were 00:02:49.569 --> 00:02:53.569 good lighting, not too bright, not too dim, and 00:02:53.569 --> 00:02:58.430 scent -free and all these different things. I 00:02:58.430 --> 00:03:01.629 found out that running events itself is very 00:03:01.629 --> 00:03:04.509 difficult to make money from as well, but then 00:03:04.509 --> 00:03:06.930 going further down that rabbit hole, I've gotten 00:03:06.930 --> 00:03:11.849 into advocacy and consulting, and that's a whole 00:03:11.930 --> 00:03:14.810 realm that I've stumbled into that I'm really 00:03:14.810 --> 00:03:17.750 like, there's a lot to dig into there. So it's 00:03:17.750 --> 00:03:20.629 exciting. Yeah. Yeah. A few different directions 00:03:20.629 --> 00:03:22.469 and a few different kinds of things that came 00:03:22.469 --> 00:03:25.729 to mind as, as you were responding there, um, 00:03:25.830 --> 00:03:27.810 maybe before we dive into the career piece, cause 00:03:27.810 --> 00:03:30.310 I think that will probably take up the bulk of 00:03:30.310 --> 00:03:32.349 the conversation and what you do now and how 00:03:32.349 --> 00:03:35.289 you make events more inclusive. Uh, what originally 00:03:36.590 --> 00:03:39.430 Encouraged or led you to seek out a diagnosis 00:03:39.430 --> 00:03:41.789 in your late twenties and maybe how did getting 00:03:41.789 --> 00:03:46.810 that label change things for you? Yeah, so it's 00:03:46.810 --> 00:03:51.050 I still I still feel like whenever I tell it 00:03:51.050 --> 00:03:55.229 like when I I was aware of Autism loosely because 00:03:55.229 --> 00:03:57.069 you know, everyone kind of knows a brain man 00:03:57.069 --> 00:03:59.129 or I don't know if big bang theory was on TV 00:03:59.129 --> 00:04:03.379 at that time or not, but. there was some cultural 00:04:03.379 --> 00:04:05.759 awareness of it but it was one very specific 00:04:05.759 --> 00:04:09.060 stereotype and I didn't identify with that because 00:04:09.060 --> 00:04:11.939 it was like portraying a really extreme version 00:04:11.939 --> 00:04:14.539 of autism and there's a lot of people that are 00:04:14.539 --> 00:04:16.639 like have much lower support needs and are much 00:04:16.639 --> 00:04:19.399 more functional kind of day -to -day can mask 00:04:19.399 --> 00:04:23.519 more easily so I just stumbled upon an article 00:04:23.519 --> 00:04:25.579 on the internet one day and I was reading it 00:04:25.579 --> 00:04:28.920 and I was like why do I identify with so much 00:04:28.920 --> 00:04:31.740 of this? Like I have no idea where this has been. 00:04:32.319 --> 00:04:35.100 And so I kind of, you know, the way that autistic 00:04:35.100 --> 00:04:37.740 people tend to be, we find a thing that catches 00:04:37.740 --> 00:04:40.180 our interest and then it becomes like nothing 00:04:40.180 --> 00:04:42.379 else matters. This is all I'm going to care about 00:04:42.379 --> 00:04:45.879 for, you know, however long. And so I really 00:04:45.879 --> 00:04:49.199 dove into that and I went and saw my doctor and 00:04:49.199 --> 00:04:51.779 he referred me and I got assessed and diagnosed 00:04:51.779 --> 00:04:55.839 and The biggest thing was just like, okay, so 00:04:55.839 --> 00:04:58.879 this explains my quirks and why I am the way 00:04:58.879 --> 00:05:02.339 that I am. And it kind of helps people understand 00:05:02.339 --> 00:05:05.000 what my sort of needs are and these different 00:05:05.000 --> 00:05:10.279 things. And I didn't mention this in the introduction 00:05:10.279 --> 00:05:13.259 because there's so many things to say, but I 00:05:13.259 --> 00:05:17.560 did have to mask it work. And I was kind of consistently 00:05:17.560 --> 00:05:19.639 told whenever the topic came up, it was like, 00:05:19.740 --> 00:05:22.000 don't disclose because more than likely it's 00:05:22.000 --> 00:05:24.199 going to be used against you. or it's gonna you're 00:05:24.199 --> 00:05:26.060 gonna get discriminated or you're gonna get held 00:05:26.060 --> 00:05:28.699 back or whatever and I didn't want that obviously 00:05:28.699 --> 00:05:31.620 so I just did my best to suck it up and be quiet 00:05:31.620 --> 00:05:34.480 and just do my work and you know it took a lot 00:05:34.480 --> 00:05:36.980 out of me to do all that masking and it got to 00:05:36.980 --> 00:05:39.540 the point where I couldn't really do that anymore 00:05:39.540 --> 00:05:43.720 which is why I left that field but that's kind 00:05:43.720 --> 00:05:46.180 of the other part of the consulting idea is not 00:05:46.180 --> 00:05:48.970 just around events but I also want to consult 00:05:48.970 --> 00:05:52.029 with organizations to help their neurodivergent 00:05:52.029 --> 00:05:54.569 staff, because to tie into what you have talked 00:05:54.569 --> 00:05:58.110 about on the show before, it shouldn't just be 00:05:58.110 --> 00:06:00.769 a matter of thinking like, oh, well, it's a charity 00:06:00.769 --> 00:06:03.449 thing. Like, oh, we're being nice to our neurodivergent 00:06:03.449 --> 00:06:05.250 staff. Like, if you actually support them, because 00:06:05.250 --> 00:06:10.129 we're capable of quite better output, faster 00:06:10.129 --> 00:06:13.350 output, more quality output, when we're supported 00:06:13.350 --> 00:06:16.910 properly. And if it falls to us to do that, It's 00:06:16.910 --> 00:06:19.870 just not gonna be as good. So yeah, what were 00:06:19.870 --> 00:06:22.569 the specific? Strengths that you possess that 00:06:22.569 --> 00:06:24.810 made you effective at bookkeeping because I think 00:06:24.810 --> 00:06:27.949 that's a good I think that's good evidence of 00:06:27.949 --> 00:06:31.470 Leveraging strengths over maybe relative or perceived 00:06:31.470 --> 00:06:34.490 weaknesses to perform really well at a specific 00:06:34.490 --> 00:06:39.910 job Uh, I like, I mean, I feel like my, my autism 00:06:39.910 --> 00:06:42.430 is kind of like this designated driver in my 00:06:42.430 --> 00:06:44.670 brain that it's kind of just there, like looking 00:06:44.670 --> 00:06:48.490 over things. And so I can't help that when I. 00:06:48.490 --> 00:06:50.689 Look at, like, if I look at a stack, like I just, 00:06:50.889 --> 00:06:53.449 I'm compelled to organize things, which is kind 00:06:53.449 --> 00:06:55.810 of weird because I'm also ADHD. And so I'm also 00:06:55.810 --> 00:06:59.029 very like kind of organized messy. I'm very creative. 00:06:59.209 --> 00:07:01.810 I have like, my ideas get blow up and become 00:07:01.810 --> 00:07:05.360 these. you know, disasters in a sense. But like, 00:07:05.420 --> 00:07:07.540 ultimately, I gravitate towards making order 00:07:07.540 --> 00:07:11.000 out of chaos. And that's like, that's not very 00:07:11.000 --> 00:07:13.959 common in the artistic world, which is why it's 00:07:13.959 --> 00:07:15.819 always been like, oh, like, I'm the artist friend 00:07:15.819 --> 00:07:18.240 that actually can, you know, keep things like 00:07:18.240 --> 00:07:21.600 herd the cat, so to speak. I was just good at 00:07:21.600 --> 00:07:26.350 it. And it felt good to to do that to an extent. 00:07:27.810 --> 00:07:30.990 I mean, like I said, I didn't want to be bookkeeping 00:07:30.990 --> 00:07:33.389 forever. It wasn't like a passion. It was just 00:07:33.389 --> 00:07:35.089 something I did get some dopamine from being 00:07:35.089 --> 00:07:38.250 good at. Yeah, and it's a means to an end, right? 00:07:38.970 --> 00:07:43.310 Like sustainability and socioeconomic considerations 00:07:43.310 --> 00:07:45.610 are always really relevant for career choice 00:07:45.610 --> 00:07:51.120 too. One thing I personally A little bit of friction 00:07:51.120 --> 00:07:54.740 point maybe for my gym or my career in the fitness 00:07:54.740 --> 00:07:58.420 space and you alluded to it in the first question 00:07:58.420 --> 00:08:02.980 is just designing a space that I know isn't going 00:08:02.980 --> 00:08:05.959 to be suitable for everyone. You come into my 00:08:05.959 --> 00:08:09.790 gym. And the premise of our business is to allow 00:08:09.790 --> 00:08:12.290 people with and without disabilities to seamlessly 00:08:12.290 --> 00:08:15.629 coexist. But maybe that environment isn't perfect 00:08:15.629 --> 00:08:17.829 for everyone and there's music playing and there's 00:08:17.829 --> 00:08:22.790 lights. Are there certain environments that maybe 00:08:22.790 --> 00:08:26.930 can't be neuro inclusive? Or if you were advising 00:08:26.930 --> 00:08:30.170 me on how to make a gym space more accessible 00:08:30.170 --> 00:08:33.399 or inclusive for someone like yourself? And I 00:08:33.399 --> 00:08:36.159 guess what steps do you think I should take to 00:08:36.159 --> 00:08:39.419 better support people with neurodiversity? So 00:08:39.419 --> 00:08:42.659 one of the first things that comes to mind, one 00:08:42.659 --> 00:08:45.539 of my primary struggles is sound sensitivity, 00:08:46.240 --> 00:08:48.440 which I have the double -edged sword of having 00:08:48.440 --> 00:08:52.139 both audio auditory processing disorder and tinnitus. 00:08:52.980 --> 00:08:56.240 But so I need to like, it's harder for me to 00:08:56.240 --> 00:08:58.440 hear to begin with, but because I'm also sensitive 00:08:58.440 --> 00:09:01.240 to noise, I tend to wear earplugs. So I'm kind 00:09:01.240 --> 00:09:03.970 of like, fighting two opposite fights at the 00:09:03.970 --> 00:09:08.350 same time, but whenever I go to venues and they 00:09:08.350 --> 00:09:11.169 have like, you know, solid brick walls and they 00:09:11.169 --> 00:09:13.610 have all, you know, like the steel beams and 00:09:13.610 --> 00:09:16.909 tubes and HVAC system and stuff, like all those 00:09:16.909 --> 00:09:20.450 like hard flat surfaces reflect sound like completely. 00:09:20.629 --> 00:09:23.629 And when you have like 50 or more people all 00:09:23.629 --> 00:09:26.789 talking at once in a space like that, it's just, 00:09:27.129 --> 00:09:31.120 it's a frequency nightmare and like, That's the 00:09:31.120 --> 00:09:33.299 kind of case where like, I'll be, I can be standing 00:09:33.299 --> 00:09:35.259 in a group and I will literally only be able 00:09:35.259 --> 00:09:38.700 to hear the people directly beside me and no 00:09:38.700 --> 00:09:41.340 one else because it's just, there's too much 00:09:41.340 --> 00:09:44.539 and I can't filter it. And that's the thing I 00:09:44.539 --> 00:09:46.879 think I've run into the most often is just environments 00:09:46.879 --> 00:09:51.360 that are too loud. And there's like no consideration. 00:09:51.679 --> 00:09:54.399 Like I know like most people like music and I 00:09:54.399 --> 00:09:57.039 get that then you want to have music playing 00:09:57.039 --> 00:09:59.350 because it's going to be, you know, A lot of 00:09:59.350 --> 00:10:01.470 people don't like silence, which is unfortunate. 00:10:02.990 --> 00:10:07.009 But it's just a thing that I know that a lot 00:10:07.009 --> 00:10:10.509 of people don't even think twice about. And it's 00:10:10.509 --> 00:10:13.690 really frustrating to walk into a space and just 00:10:13.690 --> 00:10:15.169 immediately know like, oh, okay, so I'm going 00:10:15.169 --> 00:10:18.289 to have to be at like, I'm going to have to be 00:10:18.289 --> 00:10:21.509 filtering all these things just to exist in this 00:10:21.509 --> 00:10:23.809 space and interact with people and to try to 00:10:23.809 --> 00:10:27.190 have this experience. the whole time it's like 00:10:27.190 --> 00:10:29.769 eating away at my energy more than anybody else. 00:10:30.370 --> 00:10:33.289 And this is why I'm starting to do some research 00:10:33.289 --> 00:10:35.350 now because I know it's not just neurodivergent 00:10:35.350 --> 00:10:38.009 people that have some struggles. Introverts hate 00:10:38.009 --> 00:10:40.509 loud environments too. Introverts aren't necessarily 00:10:40.509 --> 00:10:43.110 neurodivergent. They can be, they don't have 00:10:43.110 --> 00:10:46.250 to be. So I'm trying to start gathering data 00:10:46.250 --> 00:10:51.309 to find out what of these factors can impact 00:10:51.309 --> 00:10:56.090 anyone regardless of their neurology. Um, because 00:10:56.090 --> 00:10:58.049 I need to be able to bring that data forward 00:10:58.049 --> 00:10:59.929 and be like, Hey, I'm not just asking for special 00:10:59.929 --> 00:11:01.750 treatment. I'm saying like, this is something 00:11:01.750 --> 00:11:04.210 that's affecting the majority of your patrons. 00:11:04.269 --> 00:11:07.610 So it's worth thinking about. Yeah. Yeah. So 00:11:07.610 --> 00:11:09.909 if you were to come into my gym for the first 00:11:09.909 --> 00:11:11.769 time and say, Hey, like Brendan, I'm interested 00:11:11.769 --> 00:11:15.389 in joining this gym. Um, I identify as neurodivergent. 00:11:15.590 --> 00:11:18.009 I have these sensitivities to sound. I think 00:11:18.009 --> 00:11:22.009 my first question would be like, well, one, when 00:11:22.009 --> 00:11:24.129 were you hoping to work out? Are you mourning? 00:11:24.509 --> 00:11:27.649 middle of the day afternoon. And then for me, 00:11:27.730 --> 00:11:29.970 it would be like, okay, well, our gym is pretty 00:11:29.970 --> 00:11:32.830 busy first thing in the morning. And then in 00:11:32.830 --> 00:11:34.870 the afternoon, it picks back up again. But there's 00:11:34.870 --> 00:11:38.049 these quiet periods in the middle of the day. 00:11:38.090 --> 00:11:39.809 And you kind of see some other companies, I know 00:11:39.809 --> 00:11:42.110 Walmart got a lot of recognition for adding like 00:11:42.110 --> 00:11:45.950 sensitivity hours or sensory friendly hours from 00:11:45.950 --> 00:11:49.409 like 10 to 12. But those times don't work for 00:11:49.409 --> 00:11:51.690 most people shopping if they have a job, et cetera. 00:11:52.289 --> 00:11:57.289 So I guess, what would your preference be to 00:11:57.289 --> 00:12:00.169 come to the gym when there's really no one else 00:12:00.169 --> 00:12:04.129 there? Would you want to come when it is lively, 00:12:04.289 --> 00:12:07.289 but maybe you would wear noise canceling headphones 00:12:07.289 --> 00:12:10.250 or something along those lines, in which case 00:12:10.250 --> 00:12:12.549 then if I was coaching you, we would just have 00:12:12.549 --> 00:12:14.629 to come up with a different communication method. 00:12:15.129 --> 00:12:17.870 If I'm not able to call across the gym and get 00:12:17.870 --> 00:12:20.490 your attention or kind of have a verbal conversation, 00:12:20.509 --> 00:12:23.399 maybe. we would have more written communication 00:12:23.399 --> 00:12:26.220 or some sort of iPad or assistive technology 00:12:26.220 --> 00:12:29.320 type of thing. But yeah, I guess what would make 00:12:29.320 --> 00:12:32.419 the gym experience the best for you if you were 00:12:32.419 --> 00:12:36.940 to come? So the first thing that comes to mind, 00:12:37.700 --> 00:12:39.120 you can correct me if I'm wrong on this, but 00:12:39.120 --> 00:12:42.159 I think at this point in time, most people have 00:12:42.159 --> 00:12:44.019 their own headphones. They're probably listening 00:12:44.019 --> 00:12:46.779 to their own thing when they're working out. 00:12:47.580 --> 00:12:50.080 So if there is still going to be music playing 00:12:50.080 --> 00:12:52.299 in the broader gym, like it's maybe for the staff 00:12:52.299 --> 00:12:54.779 that can't wear headphones because they have 00:12:54.779 --> 00:12:57.500 to be able to pay attention to customers or clients, 00:12:58.720 --> 00:13:01.940 then one of the things that you could do is have 00:13:01.940 --> 00:13:06.000 the general gym music kept to a certain volume 00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:09.220 or lower. And alternatively, I would say have 00:13:09.220 --> 00:13:13.200 only instrumental or ambient music or something 00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:15.440 that doesn't have percussion and vocals, something 00:13:15.440 --> 00:13:19.019 that's easier to kind of fall to the background 00:13:19.019 --> 00:13:23.360 having potentially a bit more like maybe sound 00:13:23.360 --> 00:13:28.600 dampening materials in different places or I 00:13:28.600 --> 00:13:30.820 know this one's a little bit more going out of 00:13:30.820 --> 00:13:33.240 your way but if you can have like a separate 00:13:33.240 --> 00:13:37.000 area or designated area I mean maybe if you have 00:13:37.000 --> 00:13:38.659 like if there's like a yoga studio and it's not 00:13:38.659 --> 00:13:41.120 currently being used for yoga classes then go 00:13:41.120 --> 00:13:43.500 in there have no music in there and just have 00:13:43.500 --> 00:13:46.389 that be kind of the space that Um, because I, 00:13:46.389 --> 00:13:48.309 I would be most likely to come in kind of first 00:13:48.309 --> 00:13:50.350 thing in the morning and I know that's one of 00:13:50.350 --> 00:13:53.870 the busiest times. Yeah. Yeah. I think the, maybe 00:13:53.870 --> 00:13:55.769 one piece that's a little unique about our gym 00:13:55.769 --> 00:13:58.470 is that it is kind of like a training gym. So 00:13:58.470 --> 00:14:01.029 pretty much everyone who comes in gets some degree 00:14:01.029 --> 00:14:04.129 of coaching, uh, which means actually that not 00:14:04.129 --> 00:14:07.799 many of our clients. wear headphones, because 00:14:07.799 --> 00:14:10.139 there's more communication between coaches and 00:14:10.139 --> 00:14:12.940 clients. So I definitely understand commercial 00:14:12.940 --> 00:14:15.080 gym, you go in and everyone's kind of in their 00:14:15.080 --> 00:14:17.000 own world doing their own thing. And they're 00:14:17.000 --> 00:14:19.039 probably wearing their headphones and all that 00:14:19.039 --> 00:14:21.799 stuff. And so in that case, the ambient background 00:14:21.799 --> 00:14:25.919 music, stuff like that would definitely be. advisable. 00:14:26.059 --> 00:14:28.360 I guess just for me, I struggle with the idea 00:14:28.360 --> 00:14:31.639 of wanting to be inclusive, wanting to create 00:14:31.639 --> 00:14:33.899 these integrated sessions where people with or 00:14:33.899 --> 00:14:36.899 without disabilities can kind of coexist, but 00:14:36.899 --> 00:14:39.279 at the same time being considerate of people 00:14:39.279 --> 00:14:42.960 that do need maybe one -to -one or do need kind 00:14:42.960 --> 00:14:46.549 of an empty gym to be successful. One other small 00:14:46.549 --> 00:14:49.169 thing that you could do, it's a very small thing, 00:14:49.169 --> 00:14:51.870 it makes a small difference, but if you have 00:14:51.870 --> 00:14:54.110 like a large enough space and maybe if you have 00:14:54.110 --> 00:14:56.809 the speakers sort of kind of at the midpoint, 00:14:56.850 --> 00:14:59.370 but they're pointing distinctly towards one end 00:14:59.370 --> 00:15:02.629 of the gym and away from the other, that does 00:15:02.629 --> 00:15:04.710 help a little bit because sometimes I go into 00:15:04.710 --> 00:15:07.970 a venue and all of the speakers are pointed like 00:15:07.970 --> 00:15:10.470 straight down or straight center, so there's 00:15:10.470 --> 00:15:13.980 nowhere to go that has like less of that. That 00:15:13.980 --> 00:15:17.299 sensory input, but if they're have kind of more, 00:15:17.299 --> 00:15:19.580 the back is louder, the front's quiet or something 00:15:19.580 --> 00:15:22.460 like that. That's a little thing that can help 00:15:22.460 --> 00:15:26.460 suggestion that I have. Do you believe that all 00:15:26.460 --> 00:15:30.799 venues and events should be taking these things 00:15:30.799 --> 00:15:33.259 into consideration and should be narrow includes 00:15:33.259 --> 00:15:35.840 or do you think there's certain. Environments 00:15:35.840 --> 00:15:38.980 and activities where it might not be possible. 00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:45.860 I know some venues would be harder. Like, I understand, 00:15:45.919 --> 00:15:48.379 like, a sports bar, maybe, is a place, like, 00:15:48.580 --> 00:15:51.419 I avoid those because they're just typically 00:15:51.419 --> 00:15:54.879 too loud. I mean, you can't have a TV on with 00:15:54.879 --> 00:15:57.200 the game and, like, they don't have to have the 00:15:57.200 --> 00:15:59.480 play -by -play going. People can still watch 00:15:59.480 --> 00:16:04.320 it. But I think for, like, places like, just 00:16:04.320 --> 00:16:08.340 kind of maybe, like, cafes or, like, again, I 00:16:08.340 --> 00:16:10.909 get that people kind of like to have a little 00:16:10.909 --> 00:16:12.830 bit of background music on a lot of the time, 00:16:12.850 --> 00:16:17.330 but it just, it doesn't have to be as loud or 00:16:17.330 --> 00:16:19.769 maybe like, again, speaker orientation, like 00:16:19.769 --> 00:16:22.970 direction or having just a little bit more sound 00:16:22.970 --> 00:16:26.169 dampening panels or like padded furniture or 00:16:26.169 --> 00:16:29.129 things. There are different things that can just 00:16:29.129 --> 00:16:33.009 help to soften it a little bit more. But yeah, 00:16:33.009 --> 00:16:35.769 I know the sound is the trickier one, I think. 00:16:36.370 --> 00:16:39.279 But I think that's Those are good recommendations, 00:16:39.440 --> 00:16:42.559 right? Because they're pretty low cost, low, 00:16:43.059 --> 00:16:45.379 not very invasive, right? Because I think a lot 00:16:45.379 --> 00:16:48.360 of people assume that they have to drastically 00:16:48.360 --> 00:16:50.879 overhaul either their services or their environments 00:16:50.879 --> 00:16:54.200 if they're going to support a different population 00:16:54.200 --> 00:16:56.519 than they were doing beforehand. So I do like 00:16:56.519 --> 00:16:58.899 the practicality of those recommendations. I 00:16:58.899 --> 00:17:01.019 think one of the other things that comes to mind, 00:17:01.019 --> 00:17:03.840 and I'm not an expert in this by any stretch, 00:17:03.860 --> 00:17:06.720 but I have been a musician for multiple decades. 00:17:06.740 --> 00:17:09.220 And so I do have an understanding of sort of 00:17:09.220 --> 00:17:12.380 like the frequency spectrum and I just had it 00:17:12.380 --> 00:17:15.259 just popped into my auditory memory of like the 00:17:15.259 --> 00:17:17.180 sound of if you're in a cafe and they're running 00:17:17.180 --> 00:17:19.720 like a grinding machine to like make an espresso 00:17:19.720 --> 00:17:23.680 or something and just it's it's like I know it's 00:17:23.680 --> 00:17:25.240 probably not necessarily possible for them to 00:17:25.240 --> 00:17:27.640 like you know put some kind of thing around that 00:17:27.640 --> 00:17:30.119 but like when you're sitting near the thing if 00:17:30.119 --> 00:17:31.519 you're like talking to a friend or on a date 00:17:31.519 --> 00:17:34.380 or something and all this is like right next 00:17:34.380 --> 00:17:37.980 to you it's like Why? Why do we have to do this? 00:17:38.059 --> 00:17:40.880 It's gotta be a better way. Yeah, I think those 00:17:40.880 --> 00:17:44.720 small things a lot of businesses can benefit 00:17:44.720 --> 00:17:48.319 from, and I think too often they're not considered 00:17:48.319 --> 00:17:50.859 because the people that operate them don't really 00:17:50.859 --> 00:17:53.599 have the lived experiences. So that's where the 00:17:53.599 --> 00:17:56.579 consultancy thing that you mentioned comes into 00:17:56.579 --> 00:17:58.099 play. And I was interested when you said you 00:17:58.099 --> 00:18:02.319 were hosting events, why you opted to go... your 00:18:02.319 --> 00:18:05.960 own events versus working with pre -existing 00:18:05.960 --> 00:18:08.880 events to make them more neuro -inclusive. So 00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:11.480 maybe could you start with explaining kind of 00:18:11.480 --> 00:18:15.420 what the events you hosted were like? And then 00:18:15.420 --> 00:18:17.500 maybe I know you're transitioning more into the 00:18:17.500 --> 00:18:19.920 consultancy side. So let's maybe talk about what 00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:24.220 you do for that. Yeah, so when I kind of first 00:18:24.220 --> 00:18:26.180 started, there was this one particular event 00:18:26.180 --> 00:18:29.400 that is kind of a social mixer. It's meant to 00:18:29.400 --> 00:18:32.619 meet new people, make new connections, find people 00:18:32.619 --> 00:18:35.619 that have similar interests and be friends. And 00:18:35.619 --> 00:18:37.799 it's unfortunately held in one of those venues 00:18:37.799 --> 00:18:42.099 that's all hard flat surfaces and the beams and 00:18:42.099 --> 00:18:45.980 the HVAC overhead. So it's just a terrible auditory 00:18:47.159 --> 00:18:50.039 Reverb and all that stuff. It's terrible, but 00:18:50.039 --> 00:18:53.299 I love the event itself and I said to the organizer 00:18:53.299 --> 00:18:56.180 like I've approached event organizers in the 00:18:56.180 --> 00:18:58.440 past to like kind of help them work with them 00:18:58.440 --> 00:19:00.400 because I wanted to get more into events anyways 00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:04.140 and Surprisingly a lot of them have been like, 00:19:04.140 --> 00:19:06.200 oh, we don't really need help or like, oh, you 00:19:06.200 --> 00:19:10.599 know various, you know polite deflections or 00:19:10.599 --> 00:19:12.420 rejections and I kind of was like, okay people 00:19:12.420 --> 00:19:14.480 don't seem to really want or need help apparently 00:19:14.480 --> 00:19:17.880 so I guess I'm just again, it came back to like, 00:19:17.880 --> 00:19:19.900 I'm not getting anywhere by trying to go to other 00:19:19.900 --> 00:19:22.220 people. So I think I just need to like, take 00:19:22.220 --> 00:19:26.319 initiative and do what I want to do. So I started 00:19:26.319 --> 00:19:30.720 with doing a social connection event and. The 00:19:30.720 --> 00:19:34.180 venue I used was one of the more affordable ones 00:19:34.180 --> 00:19:37.519 I found, and it still wasn't great for. Reverb 00:19:37.519 --> 00:19:42.200 and such, but from there, I shifted into doing. 00:19:42.829 --> 00:19:45.769 where I call them place based workshops. And 00:19:45.769 --> 00:19:47.869 so it's a series of activities. There's like 00:19:47.869 --> 00:19:50.250 improv, there's arts and crafts, there's like 00:19:50.250 --> 00:19:53.829 just kind of interacting with other people and 00:19:53.829 --> 00:19:55.309 kind of like getting to know them a little bit. 00:19:55.309 --> 00:19:57.869 So it's kind of a mixture. It's a little bit 00:19:57.869 --> 00:19:59.490 of skill building, a little bit of like just 00:19:59.490 --> 00:20:04.670 creativity, networking. And like, this is the 00:20:04.670 --> 00:20:07.430 sort of thing I want to exist more of because 00:20:07.430 --> 00:20:10.170 it doesn't really exist. nearly as much as I 00:20:10.170 --> 00:20:12.970 think it should. Um, and so I started doing that 00:20:12.970 --> 00:20:15.289 and like, again, if, if I'm doing this and I'm 00:20:15.289 --> 00:20:17.690 having these quieter environments and I'm having 00:20:17.690 --> 00:20:20.190 these different, like, it's not taking away from 00:20:20.190 --> 00:20:23.170 anybody's experience. It's just becoming more 00:20:23.170 --> 00:20:26.910 accessible. And that was kind of the, the other 00:20:26.910 --> 00:20:28.990 point too, is to give more experience to make 00:20:28.990 --> 00:20:31.809 them more accessible. And like I said, I kind 00:20:31.809 --> 00:20:34.190 of ran a couple of those and I found it's just 00:20:34.190 --> 00:20:37.720 really If you're trying to make your living from 00:20:37.720 --> 00:20:41.299 running independent events, at least in this 00:20:41.299 --> 00:20:44.299 current time, with our current economic situation 00:20:44.299 --> 00:20:48.180 and such, it's not very viable, I don't think. 00:20:49.940 --> 00:20:53.420 That's part of why I started shifting towards 00:20:53.420 --> 00:20:57.880 consulting. If I'm just focusing on this one 00:20:57.880 --> 00:21:00.900 tiny little sliver of accessibility in just certain 00:21:00.900 --> 00:21:04.839 kinds of events, that's selling myself short. 00:21:06.470 --> 00:21:09.089 I don't know if I answered all your questions. 00:21:09.569 --> 00:21:14.109 No, yeah, but I think also as you were speaking, 00:21:14.329 --> 00:21:18.349 I was thinking like, so if a business hires you 00:21:18.349 --> 00:21:21.789 to make their environment and their experience 00:21:21.789 --> 00:21:25.809 more neuro inclusive, they would want to understand 00:21:25.809 --> 00:21:29.789 like the value of that investment, I guess. So 00:21:29.789 --> 00:21:32.369 being able to articulate to that business, like 00:21:32.369 --> 00:21:35.960 these are how many people with various neurodiversities 00:21:35.960 --> 00:21:39.420 are not coming to your facility because of this. 00:21:39.559 --> 00:21:42.579 And if you make these two small changes, et cetera, 00:21:42.740 --> 00:21:47.019 like all these people might be patrons. But then 00:21:47.019 --> 00:21:50.240 I think there's going to still be a presumption 00:21:50.240 --> 00:21:54.460 from people who are neurodivergent, like sports 00:21:54.460 --> 00:21:58.160 bar is not the place for me. So then that sports 00:21:58.160 --> 00:22:01.779 bar, I guess, the next challenge or hurdle is 00:22:01.779 --> 00:22:05.680 marketing themselves. as neuro -inclusive or 00:22:05.680 --> 00:22:07.920 that they're taking these initiatives to be more 00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:10.579 inclusive. So I think that's maybe one of the 00:22:10.579 --> 00:22:13.720 steps that's sometimes missed is like the promotion 00:22:13.720 --> 00:22:15.819 or the invitation of people with disabilities 00:22:15.819 --> 00:22:18.299 into facilities after they make those steps. 00:22:18.599 --> 00:22:21.460 It's not just like a build it and they will come 00:22:21.460 --> 00:22:24.079 type of thing. Like sometimes people with disabilities 00:22:24.079 --> 00:22:26.160 need to be invited at least in my experience 00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:29.220 because they have these assumptions that these 00:22:29.220 --> 00:22:32.329 spaces aren't built for them. Yeah, I can say 00:22:32.329 --> 00:22:35.170 from my experience that I'm in a few different 00:22:35.170 --> 00:22:38.589 online communities around whether it's just sort 00:22:38.589 --> 00:22:42.809 of broadly or. You know, whether it's specifically, 00:22:42.809 --> 00:22:45.809 you know, version related, or if it's more just 00:22:45.809 --> 00:22:48.509 broadly disabilities slash invisible disabilities. 00:22:49.230 --> 00:22:53.470 And there is some talk of, like, I've brought 00:22:53.470 --> 00:22:55.470 it up before and other people kind of agree like, 00:22:55.490 --> 00:22:58.660 oh, yeah, this, this venue is terrible for. noise 00:22:58.660 --> 00:23:01.700 or it's too bright or it's too dark or whatever 00:23:01.700 --> 00:23:05.799 and I have been in touch with a couple of other 00:23:05.799 --> 00:23:08.940 local organizations to try to start building 00:23:08.940 --> 00:23:13.359 a database of what venues I have found that I 00:23:13.359 --> 00:23:16.940 like that I think are good or well suited. I'm 00:23:16.940 --> 00:23:21.240 in plans to start going to different venues to 00:23:21.240 --> 00:23:23.640 kind of broach this more formally and that's 00:23:23.640 --> 00:23:25.019 part of why I'm collecting this data because 00:23:25.019 --> 00:23:27.079 I want to say like I'm not just trying to ask 00:23:27.079 --> 00:23:29.980 for special treatment. I'm trying to like say, 00:23:29.980 --> 00:23:32.519 because, you know, there are times like somebody 00:23:32.519 --> 00:23:34.759 might come into your gym or come into any business, 00:23:34.880 --> 00:23:37.079 just be like, hey, I don't know if you were aware 00:23:37.079 --> 00:23:40.279 of this. But like, you might say, you know, your 00:23:40.279 --> 00:23:42.079 your website is a broken link on it. You'd be 00:23:42.079 --> 00:23:44.359 like, oh, cool. Like, thanks for letting me know. 00:23:44.440 --> 00:23:46.440 I didn't know. And I can fix that easily. I can 00:23:46.440 --> 00:23:48.359 say like, hey, you know, just just in case you 00:23:48.359 --> 00:23:51.019 didn't know, you could implement this one small 00:23:51.019 --> 00:23:52.579 little change. It would make it a little bit 00:23:52.579 --> 00:23:54.619 better for, you know, 80 percent of your patrons 00:23:54.619 --> 00:23:56.900 or something like. I know I have to approach 00:23:56.900 --> 00:23:59.220 it that way, or they're just going to be like, 00:23:59.220 --> 00:24:04.799 yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah, it's too bad that 00:24:04.799 --> 00:24:07.400 you have to advocate for the value of the advocacy. 00:24:08.119 --> 00:24:12.700 But it is important, I guess, as I can see both 00:24:12.700 --> 00:24:15.900 sides of the coin as a disability advocate, but 00:24:15.900 --> 00:24:18.839 also as a business owner, you do have to make 00:24:18.839 --> 00:24:21.160 decisions that are in the best interest of the 00:24:21.160 --> 00:24:24.779 sustainability of your business, too. You do 00:24:24.779 --> 00:24:28.000 a lot of public speaking as well, and I saw one 00:24:28.000 --> 00:24:30.500 of your signature talks is labeled fish and trees. 00:24:30.839 --> 00:24:34.000 Can you elaborate maybe a bit on where that title 00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:37.240 came from and what topics you cover and in that 00:24:37.240 --> 00:24:40.500 presentation? Yeah, so that's taken from a quote 00:24:40.500 --> 00:24:42.880 that has been attributed to Albert Einstein, 00:24:42.960 --> 00:24:47.059 but may or may not have actually arranged. The 00:24:47.059 --> 00:24:50.240 quote basically says everyone is a genius, but 00:24:50.240 --> 00:24:52.880 if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a 00:24:52.880 --> 00:24:55.380 tree. it will live its whole life believing that 00:24:55.380 --> 00:24:57.920 it's stupid and the idea there is basically the 00:24:57.920 --> 00:25:00.440 first way everyone is a genius everyone has their 00:25:00.440 --> 00:25:03.740 talent their their abilities their strengths 00:25:03.740 --> 00:25:06.599 but you know we have this thing called the social 00:25:06.599 --> 00:25:09.339 model of disability where disabled people aren't 00:25:09.339 --> 00:25:12.640 disabled because of their limitation quote unquote 00:25:12.640 --> 00:25:14.359 they're disabled because of the way that other 00:25:14.359 --> 00:25:16.920 people treat them and what they assume they can 00:25:16.920 --> 00:25:19.019 and can't do or tell them that they can and can't 00:25:19.019 --> 00:25:21.900 do like a person in a wheelchair can do a lot 00:25:21.900 --> 00:25:24.410 of things but if you just have stairs and no 00:25:24.410 --> 00:25:26.549 ramp, then you're the one that's limiting them, 00:25:26.549 --> 00:25:30.329 not them, it's not their limitation. And so that's 00:25:30.329 --> 00:25:33.269 kind of, this is looking more specifically at 00:25:33.269 --> 00:25:37.109 the more divergent side of it, but that I've 00:25:37.109 --> 00:25:39.269 always loved that quote and just that idea of 00:25:39.269 --> 00:25:43.069 like fish in trees is a catchy, it sticks in 00:25:43.069 --> 00:25:44.930 people's mind because like, you think why would 00:25:44.930 --> 00:25:47.910 a fish be doing a tree? And so I kind of went 00:25:47.910 --> 00:25:51.230 with that for now, it may change, but that's 00:25:51.230 --> 00:25:54.019 the title that I'm working with right now for 00:25:54.019 --> 00:25:57.019 just trying to present this idea to businesses, 00:25:57.279 --> 00:26:01.180 organizations of like that idea of everyone has 00:26:01.180 --> 00:26:03.160 strengths. Everyone brings something, whether 00:26:03.160 --> 00:26:06.839 it's like a skill or whether it's ROI or it's 00:26:06.839 --> 00:26:10.799 innovation, you know, team, team mood, like, 00:26:10.859 --> 00:26:14.339 you know, like all these things. And it's just 00:26:14.339 --> 00:26:18.230 that. these people are just not being if you're 00:26:18.230 --> 00:26:20.970 if you're leaving them to support themselves, 00:26:20.970 --> 00:26:27.089 you're you're it's it's You're missing an opportunity 00:26:27.089 --> 00:26:29.549 essentially and this is a thing that I dealt 00:26:29.549 --> 00:26:31.869 with in my own career and part of why I just 00:26:31.869 --> 00:26:33.930 got so fed up and I was like I can't deal with 00:26:33.930 --> 00:26:36.049 this anymore because my last two jobs they worked 00:26:36.049 --> 00:26:39.769 in 15 plus years experience in this field and 00:26:39.769 --> 00:26:41.730 I had two jobs in a row where I was treated like 00:26:41.730 --> 00:26:44.089 a five -year -old and they didn't care about 00:26:44.089 --> 00:26:47.859 my experiences like you're not senior, you're 00:26:47.859 --> 00:26:50.980 whatever. And so this is how we're telling you 00:26:50.980 --> 00:26:53.160 this has to be done. And it doesn't matter if 00:26:53.160 --> 00:26:56.559 I'm saying there's a better way or this is inefficient 00:26:56.559 --> 00:27:00.519 or why like, just like, no, this is what we're 00:27:00.519 --> 00:27:02.380 telling you, this is how you do it. Don't ask 00:27:02.380 --> 00:27:04.940 questions, stop being a pain. Just and it was 00:27:04.940 --> 00:27:08.140 like, I, I, I deserve better than this. Like, 00:27:08.259 --> 00:27:12.380 what the hell? So it's trying to really put that 00:27:12.380 --> 00:27:14.400 idea forward of like, You know, you're saying 00:27:14.400 --> 00:27:17.480 it's there is a business case for it. You know, 00:27:17.539 --> 00:27:20.039 there's, there's better retention. There's better 00:27:20.039 --> 00:27:24.539 productivity innovation. Um, you know, uh, all 00:27:24.539 --> 00:27:26.079 these things, there's so many facts and I just, 00:27:26.240 --> 00:27:28.839 I have to pull the data together to really drive 00:27:28.839 --> 00:27:31.240 that home. Like, I know it, but I just have to 00:27:31.240 --> 00:27:35.000 be able to prove it to them. So, um. That yeah, 00:27:35.400 --> 00:27:38.019 well, I think the fish and trees is a great title. 00:27:38.019 --> 00:27:41.369 I think when you just look at. corporate like 00:27:41.369 --> 00:27:44.589 disability erg presentations or just people in 00:27:44.589 --> 00:27:46.970 general that do a lot of public speaking. You 00:27:46.970 --> 00:27:50.109 pretty much see the same jargon, the same title 00:27:50.109 --> 00:27:55.329 is kind of just reworded or recycled. So I think 00:27:55.329 --> 00:27:58.809 something that stands out is great. And I think 00:27:58.809 --> 00:28:01.170 if you lead with that quote, I think it really 00:28:01.170 --> 00:28:04.380 sets the precedent for what. what point you're 00:28:04.380 --> 00:28:07.099 trying to get across. So I personally like it. 00:28:07.579 --> 00:28:10.279 How do you prepare for your presentations and 00:28:10.279 --> 00:28:12.160 kind of what do you hope that the audience gets 00:28:12.160 --> 00:28:17.359 from listening to you speak? I prepare usually 00:28:17.359 --> 00:28:21.339 by going over a few times to it's partly lived 00:28:21.339 --> 00:28:24.400 experience and partly like my own research and 00:28:24.400 --> 00:28:26.819 talking to other people. So because I'm speaking 00:28:26.819 --> 00:28:29.559 both about my experience and I'm also trying 00:28:29.559 --> 00:28:32.950 to represent broader community. And of course, 00:28:33.190 --> 00:28:34.730 the disabled community more broadly, because 00:28:34.730 --> 00:28:37.109 I do consider myself hard of hearing as well. 00:28:37.109 --> 00:28:41.029 And I have an intermittent knee issue that periodically 00:28:41.029 --> 00:28:45.269 I have to use a cane or brace for. So I do actually 00:28:45.269 --> 00:28:52.069 draw from different forms of disability. So I 00:28:52.069 --> 00:28:54.170 try to remember that. And my goal is ultimately 00:28:54.170 --> 00:29:01.079 like education to to find the people that, because 00:29:01.079 --> 00:29:03.819 as I said when I was younger I was really awkward 00:29:03.819 --> 00:29:06.519 and I just, I was very, I didn't have a lot of 00:29:06.519 --> 00:29:09.980 friends and I was ignored a lot and so to have 00:29:09.980 --> 00:29:12.160 reached the point where I am a strong, confident 00:29:12.160 --> 00:29:15.220 speaker and I can give a voice to people that 00:29:15.220 --> 00:29:18.920 are not able to advocate for themselves, that's 00:29:18.920 --> 00:29:23.019 a thing that I take seriously and I try to use 00:29:23.019 --> 00:29:27.359 that. Try to do them justice. So I'm trying to, 00:29:27.400 --> 00:29:28.839 like, and there's people that are out in the 00:29:28.839 --> 00:29:30.660 crowds. I was just doing something the other 00:29:30.660 --> 00:29:32.940 day. It was like, I don't know if it's, if it's 00:29:32.940 --> 00:29:35.119 fair for me to like, you know, self -diagnose 00:29:35.119 --> 00:29:39.019 and like, that's something to do as well. And 00:29:39.019 --> 00:29:41.140 the circles that I run in self -diagnosis is 00:29:41.140 --> 00:29:44.779 very welcome because we're gaslit so much in 00:29:44.779 --> 00:29:50.920 the society about what we can experience. If 00:29:50.920 --> 00:29:52.579 there's people in the crowd who are maybe kind 00:29:52.579 --> 00:29:55.539 of doubting or like me back on that article of 00:29:55.539 --> 00:29:57.700 like, they didn't know and now that they've heard 00:29:57.700 --> 00:30:00.660 someone put these words put this in words like 00:30:00.660 --> 00:30:03.500 oh wow okay i need to know more about this because 00:30:03.500 --> 00:30:06.799 that resonated with me and you know where's this 00:30:06.799 --> 00:30:09.619 been my whole life so um there's just a lot of 00:30:09.619 --> 00:30:12.059 opportunity to do good with it and i take that 00:30:12.059 --> 00:30:16.500 seriously i'm very honored that i i get to do 00:30:16.500 --> 00:30:19.400 this now yeah yeah there might be a little bit 00:30:19.400 --> 00:30:23.119 of juxtaposition right because one of the maybe 00:30:23.119 --> 00:30:26.400 misconceptions or maybe in many cases, it is 00:30:26.400 --> 00:30:30.700 accurate is that individuals with autism or different 00:30:30.700 --> 00:30:35.619 levels of neurodivergence might not be strong. 00:30:35.950 --> 00:30:39.170 public speakers or have as strong a verbal expressive 00:30:39.170 --> 00:30:41.750 language. So for you to be able to, like you 00:30:41.750 --> 00:30:44.430 said, kind of not speak on their behalf, but 00:30:44.430 --> 00:30:47.250 at least stand up and give the greater community 00:30:47.250 --> 00:30:50.609 as a whole a voice is really useful. So was there 00:30:50.609 --> 00:30:53.130 a particular presentation or kind of experience 00:30:53.130 --> 00:30:56.509 that stands out to you, whether for positive 00:30:56.509 --> 00:31:03.480 or negative reasons? So far I've had really positive 00:31:03.480 --> 00:31:06.299 responses. I've been kind of refining this because 00:31:06.299 --> 00:31:10.359 I, I mean, I've kind of been, I guess, on a path 00:31:10.359 --> 00:31:13.299 towards this for years, and it's really coalesced 00:31:13.299 --> 00:31:16.619 in the last kind of year, year or two. So now 00:31:16.619 --> 00:31:19.720 I'm really getting like a razor focused and like, 00:31:19.720 --> 00:31:22.740 you know, like a heat seeking missile for what 00:31:22.740 --> 00:31:27.390 I'm really trying to do. And so I've got I've 00:31:27.390 --> 00:31:30.049 been working with an agent and got several things 00:31:30.049 --> 00:31:34.009 coming up this fall and into next year. So if 00:31:34.009 --> 00:31:36.470 we have if we have like, you know, a check back 00:31:36.470 --> 00:31:39.369 in a year from now, I sure would have a lot more 00:31:39.369 --> 00:31:43.250 stories to share with you. Yeah, I hope we will. 00:31:43.549 --> 00:31:46.309 Since a lot of my work does revolve around fitness 00:31:46.309 --> 00:31:49.509 and physical activity outside of maybe some of 00:31:49.509 --> 00:31:52.109 the stuff that we talked about earlier. Are there 00:31:52.109 --> 00:31:56.079 ways that you think the entire Jim experience, 00:31:56.079 --> 00:31:58.279 or maybe actually, because it's kind of top of 00:31:58.279 --> 00:32:00.140 mind for me right now we're organizing a lot 00:32:00.140 --> 00:32:04.000 of road races. Are there ways that we could make 00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:07.240 the road race experience if you're familiar with 00:32:07.240 --> 00:32:09.539 with attending an event like that more narrow 00:32:09.539 --> 00:32:15.700 inclusive. Again, the thing that tends to come 00:32:15.700 --> 00:32:17.599 to mind first for me is anything that's sort 00:32:17.599 --> 00:32:19.900 of like, sound or noise related and I know being 00:32:19.900 --> 00:32:22.160 outdoors, there's going to be a lot more opportunity 00:32:22.160 --> 00:32:27.880 for ambient. Car noise or dogs barking or whatever 00:32:27.880 --> 00:32:33.380 and, you know, usually if it's possible earplugs 00:32:33.380 --> 00:32:36.190 or ear muffs for. Like that's one of the other 00:32:36.190 --> 00:32:38.829 things too, is like in some of these cases, I'm 00:32:38.829 --> 00:32:41.210 not gonna go tell like venues like, oh, you should 00:32:41.210 --> 00:32:43.730 have a bunch of earmuffs on. You can give out 00:32:43.730 --> 00:32:45.470 to like, no, they'll bring their own, but like. 00:32:45.549 --> 00:32:47.650 Yeah, that's what I was gonna ask. Like, is that 00:32:47.650 --> 00:32:49.990 something where it should just kind of be assumed 00:32:49.990 --> 00:32:53.009 that the patron or the participant is going to 00:32:53.009 --> 00:32:56.069 take the steps that they need to be comfortable 00:32:56.069 --> 00:33:01.329 or? I mean, to an extent, but. So, I think there's 00:33:01.329 --> 00:33:03.089 a responsibility on both sides. Like I said, 00:33:03.089 --> 00:33:06.609 I tend to wear earplugs or something like that 00:33:06.609 --> 00:33:09.089 to events, or I have these, so your listeners 00:33:09.089 --> 00:33:12.430 won't be able to see it, but I'll show you. They're 00:33:12.430 --> 00:33:15.569 clear frame, red lens. They're not prescription 00:33:15.569 --> 00:33:18.549 glasses, but they're basically like glasses with 00:33:18.549 --> 00:33:20.910 red lenses in them, and they're blue blocking 00:33:20.910 --> 00:33:22.890 glasses, and I wear those when I'm really tired 00:33:22.890 --> 00:33:25.809 or if I have a headache or a migraine, because 00:33:25.809 --> 00:33:29.799 otherwise the light just kills me. Um, so I have 00:33:29.799 --> 00:33:32.940 those and I have, um, special musicians earplugs 00:33:32.940 --> 00:33:35.079 as well, which I wear to like events that I know 00:33:35.079 --> 00:33:37.859 are going to be louder. But the conjunction of 00:33:37.859 --> 00:33:40.000 if I'm going to wear earplugs and the venue is 00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:42.119 also going to like, turn their volume down to 00:33:42.119 --> 00:33:44.400 like, say, like 40 or 50 decibels instead of 00:33:44.400 --> 00:33:48.619 like 80 or 90, whatever. Um, that's going to 00:33:48.619 --> 00:33:52.359 help on both sides. Um, I think if it's all pushed 00:33:52.359 --> 00:33:54.819 onto, oh, you just, again, it's like, if you 00:33:54.819 --> 00:33:57.619 force people, neurodivergent people to do all 00:33:57.619 --> 00:34:00.250 of the masking, You're like, figure it out. You 00:34:00.250 --> 00:34:02.509 deal with it. It's your problem. Like, either 00:34:02.509 --> 00:34:03.829 we're not going to come back. We're going to 00:34:03.829 --> 00:34:05.390 have a terrible time. We're going to, like, break 00:34:05.390 --> 00:34:08.289 the bench or the venue poorly, or we're just 00:34:08.289 --> 00:34:09.969 not even going to go because I've gone to things 00:34:09.969 --> 00:34:11.590 before and I get to the front door. I'm like, 00:34:11.750 --> 00:34:14.710 it's just so I can hear it. I'm like, I cannot 00:34:14.710 --> 00:34:16.630 handle this environment tonight. I'm too tired. 00:34:16.670 --> 00:34:19.150 And I just I'll go back home. And that's disappointing 00:34:19.150 --> 00:34:21.289 and frustrating. And I don't want that to happen. 00:34:21.909 --> 00:34:24.829 So I think there are small adjustments that can 00:34:24.829 --> 00:34:29.829 be made. and more understanding on both sides. 00:34:29.849 --> 00:34:32.250 Like I said, I don't expect venues to just spend 00:34:32.250 --> 00:34:34.690 thousands of dollars to completely overhaul everything. 00:34:34.809 --> 00:34:38.730 That's not realistic either. Yeah, maybe just 00:34:38.730 --> 00:34:43.269 kind of simply asking whether it's during a signup 00:34:43.269 --> 00:34:45.869 process or having something on the website that 00:34:45.869 --> 00:34:49.250 says if you could benefit from any specific accommodations 00:34:49.250 --> 00:34:54.070 or support needs, reach out to us. Cause I guess 00:34:54.070 --> 00:34:56.949 like, I don't know what I don't know. And if 00:34:56.949 --> 00:35:00.409 you just signed up for my race and didn't have 00:35:00.409 --> 00:35:03.590 any means of expressing, I have these sensitivities 00:35:03.590 --> 00:35:05.769 until you show up that morning. And then you're 00:35:05.769 --> 00:35:08.690 like, wait, uh, I guess it would just be a little 00:35:08.690 --> 00:35:11.050 more helpful from an organizational standpoint 00:35:11.050 --> 00:35:13.469 to kind of know some of these stuff, like some 00:35:13.469 --> 00:35:16.429 of these things ahead of time, I guess. Yeah, 00:35:16.630 --> 00:35:20.210 I did arrange an event. Um, Probably about a 00:35:20.210 --> 00:35:22.489 year and a half ago at this 1 particular venue, 00:35:22.489 --> 00:35:24.909 and I was speaking to the manager directly over 00:35:24.909 --> 00:35:27.269 email and I was like. To see, you know, like, 00:35:27.269 --> 00:35:30.610 we want this to be quieter. It was on a Sunday 00:35:30.610 --> 00:35:34.210 morning. So, like, you know, I didn't expect 00:35:34.210 --> 00:35:36.570 the venue to be super busy anyways, but it's 00:35:36.570 --> 00:35:38.230 like, you know, like, to have the music either 00:35:38.230 --> 00:35:42.780 really lower, like off and. sure you I'll let 00:35:42.780 --> 00:35:44.940 staff know it won't be a problem and I got there 00:35:44.940 --> 00:35:46.860 and the music was still kind of like what I felt 00:35:46.860 --> 00:35:48.980 like is a normal volume and I went to the bartender 00:35:48.980 --> 00:35:51.280 and I was like hey I was I was told that the 00:35:51.280 --> 00:35:53.800 music would be kept lower and I think she turned 00:35:53.800 --> 00:35:56.679 the volume down like one tick or something and 00:35:56.679 --> 00:36:00.059 like come on like I didn't want to fight about 00:36:00.059 --> 00:36:02.579 it so I just like left it but I was like that's 00:36:02.579 --> 00:36:04.639 the sort of thing that I you know this is why 00:36:04.639 --> 00:36:07.099 I want to go and like bring like data and bring 00:36:07.099 --> 00:36:11.519 you know a business case for it. Like, I'm not 00:36:11.519 --> 00:36:16.940 saying it has to be the worst. There's compromises 00:36:16.940 --> 00:36:20.579 that we can do, I think. What type of companies 00:36:20.579 --> 00:36:23.099 and events are you particularly interested in 00:36:23.099 --> 00:36:25.260 working with if there was someone listening that 00:36:25.260 --> 00:36:27.119 kind of wanted to seek out your services or learn 00:36:27.119 --> 00:36:30.719 more? One of the organizations I'm in touch with 00:36:30.719 --> 00:36:34.920 right now, I'm a member of a couple of Canadian 00:36:34.920 --> 00:36:38.099 Chamber of Commerce groups. And then there's 00:36:38.099 --> 00:36:41.559 the Canada in case people, I don't know if I 00:36:41.559 --> 00:36:44.800 sound Canadian or not. Oh, you said the Toronto, 00:36:44.800 --> 00:36:49.840 Canada intro, but if there's a here in Ontario, 00:36:49.940 --> 00:36:52.179 the province that I live in, there's an organization 00:36:52.179 --> 00:36:54.420 called the Ontario Queer Chamber of Commerce. 00:36:54.440 --> 00:36:56.480 And I've been talking to them for a few months 00:36:56.480 --> 00:37:00.739 about doing the place -based workshops, but also 00:37:00.739 --> 00:37:03.840 talking about just the other kind of ways to 00:37:03.840 --> 00:37:07.380 make things a bit more accessible. And like I 00:37:07.380 --> 00:37:11.690 said, kind of started on the lowest level with 00:37:11.690 --> 00:37:14.170 this with like, individual local events and I'm 00:37:14.170 --> 00:37:16.110 starting to see like, kind of the bigger picture 00:37:16.110 --> 00:37:18.969 and, you know, this isn't just a local thing. 00:37:18.969 --> 00:37:22.349 It's not just a province thing. It can be national, 00:37:22.349 --> 00:37:26.769 international. So I'm trying to get in contact 00:37:26.769 --> 00:37:28.969 with more of these like, larger organizations, 00:37:30.269 --> 00:37:33.809 banks, you know, like maybe larger accounting 00:37:33.809 --> 00:37:38.409 firms that have more More like reach and more 00:37:38.409 --> 00:37:43.230 staff to to see a larger benefit from these accommodations. 00:37:43.769 --> 00:37:47.369 So that's what I'm trying to 1 of the I'm trying 00:37:47.369 --> 00:37:51.210 to do both local and larger scale. I guess. Yeah, 00:37:51.349 --> 00:37:54.150 we can include direct links in the show notes. 00:37:54.150 --> 00:37:56.289 But if, if there was someone that want to kind 00:37:56.289 --> 00:37:58.130 of reach out and learn more about your services, 00:37:58.230 --> 00:38:01.820 is there a best place for them to go to. Yeah, 00:38:01.900 --> 00:38:04.880 my website is lacyartemis .com. You can also 00:38:04.880 --> 00:38:08.119 go to fishandtrees .com. That does link to a 00:38:08.119 --> 00:38:13.440 sub page on my website. And I am also on almost 00:38:13.440 --> 00:38:16.019 all the social media platforms as Lacy Artemis. 00:38:16.079 --> 00:38:19.340 I'm not on Twitter anymore or X now, but otherwise 00:38:19.340 --> 00:38:22.039 I have presence everywhere. Not super active 00:38:22.039 --> 00:38:25.860 on everything, but yeah, that was kind of a thing. 00:38:25.880 --> 00:38:29.519 I wanted to try to make myself findable. Make 00:38:29.519 --> 00:38:33.119 sure that I can help people. So yeah, absolutely. 00:38:33.219 --> 00:38:35.000 Well, we definitely encourage anyone that wants 00:38:35.000 --> 00:38:37.239 to make their work and their environments and 00:38:37.239 --> 00:38:40.099 their services more neuro -inclusive to, uh, 00:38:40.179 --> 00:38:42.019 seek out the work that you do, or even I know 00:38:42.019 --> 00:38:44.300 there's some. publicly available talks that you've 00:38:44.300 --> 00:38:46.900 done that I was able to listen to beforehand. 00:38:47.500 --> 00:38:50.900 So interviews that you've had as well. So I know 00:38:50.900 --> 00:38:53.300 I really appreciate you reaching out and joining 00:38:53.300 --> 00:38:55.619 us for an episode and kind of getting the opportunity 00:38:55.619 --> 00:38:58.239 to learn from you and even getting a little bit 00:38:58.239 --> 00:39:00.420 of advice from you as to how we can operate our 00:39:00.420 --> 00:39:02.320 gym to make it more neuro inclusive. I really 00:39:02.320 --> 00:39:05.659 appreciate it. Yeah. And I will also mention 00:39:05.659 --> 00:39:09.460 this. I'm about to start a new sort of blog type 00:39:09.460 --> 00:39:12.320 series where I'm going to be writing about The 00:39:12.320 --> 00:39:16.460 stuff more specifically, I'm planning to go to 00:39:16.460 --> 00:39:20.500 venues and kind of talk to them and to, I guess, 00:39:20.699 --> 00:39:22.940 give a little bit of so that people don't always 00:39:22.940 --> 00:39:26.900 have to. Come necessarily seek me out to do like, 00:39:27.019 --> 00:39:28.599 just like, put some of this information out there 00:39:28.599 --> 00:39:31.139 so that people can can get some of it more easily. 00:39:31.400 --> 00:39:34.280 So that'll be on on LinkedIn and. Perhaps my 00:39:34.280 --> 00:39:36.920 sub stack as well. Awesome. Yeah. We can definitely 00:39:36.920 --> 00:39:38.980 include show note, uh, links in the show notes 00:39:38.980 --> 00:39:41.139 to, to your different channels so people can 00:39:41.139 --> 00:39:43.159 easily find it. But let me say again, thanks 00:39:43.159 --> 00:39:46.139 for joining me. Thank you. Thank you for listening 00:39:46.139 --> 00:39:48.750 to the adapt X podcast. Our effort to amplify 00:39:48.750 --> 00:39:50.650 the ideas of our guests and create more inclusive 00:39:50.650 --> 00:39:52.929 and accessible industries is futile unless these 00:39:52.929 --> 00:39:55.309 episodes reach a larger audience. If you enjoyed 00:39:55.309 --> 00:39:57.349 our discussion today, please leave us a rating 00:39:57.349 --> 00:39:59.969 or a review on whichever platform you use. And 00:39:59.969 --> 00:40:01.610 if you would like to learn more about Adaptex, 00:40:01.750 --> 00:40:03.289 the course that we teach to health and fitness 00:40:03.289 --> 00:40:05.309 professionals and the projects that our organization 00:40:05.309 --> 00:40:07.769 is working on, you can subscribe to our newsletter 00:40:07.769 --> 00:40:11.269 through our website www .adaptex .org. Until 00:40:11.269 --> 00:40:11.789 next Monday.