All right, welcome to the AdaptX podcast where we have individuals who are building accessible
businesses, advocating for inclusion or excelling in adaptive sports. Our intention is never to
speak on behalf of those with disabilities, but provide a platform to share their voice and
amplify their ideas to a more accessible world. Today we are joined by Sean and Seamus Evans,
a father and son duo from Galway, a small town in upstate New York. In addition to being a
physical therapist, Sean is senior vice president of programs with Ainsley's Angels of America.
Seamus was born with cerebral palsy, which has resulted in him using a power wheelchair
for mobility. Although Seamus may have some physical limitations, his ability to dream big
is limitless. He and his father have run thousands of miles together and have participated in hundreds
of races. The team has a passion for promoting inclusion and took on two transcontinental runs
to spread awareness about inclusivity. This past Monday, they participated in their first
Boston Marathon together, which I am excited to talk about more. So Sean and Seamus, thank you
for joining me. Thanks for having us. All right, yeah, maybe we'll start with Boston because
I think that will be like the first topic that we'll probably promote since it's fresh in
everyone's minds. So maybe take us through the process of when did you first want to run Boston?
Why did you want to run Boston? And how did you qualify to run Boston? Yeah, so yeah, you say
it's fresh. Fresh in our minds, it's still fresh in my legs too. I ran Boston for the first time
in 2003 as an individual. Now that was before Seamus was even born. Seamus was born in 2006.
Kind of like every runner, you know, not every, but a lot of runners have that as a goal to want
to run Boston. And I was the same way when I was running as an individual. I ran Boston six
consecutive times through 2008. And then I started chasing faster times. I was looking for faster
courses to run on. Ended up running a 226 marathon in Vermont City Marathon in 2009.
So that was the fastest I ever got. Fast forward a couple years, Seamus had been training with me
since he was basically old enough to sit in his jogging stroller. I guess that would have been
2007. He would have been a year old. But in 2013 Seamus decided that he wanted to start running
races together, which I thought was a great idea. We got some new wheels that allowed for his growing
body to be more comfortable. We got those from Ainsley's Angels. And once Seamus got those new
wheels, we did start racing together. And I would say in the back of my mind at that time,
knowing that Dick and Rick had done it 37 times or whatever it was, that hopefully Seamus and I
would be able to get there someday. I don't know that Seamus knew about it at that time,
but we ran our first marathon together. We ran an ultra marathon together in 2013.
And I guess that was the first time that we really covered a lot of distance. Do you remember
specifically when Boston entered your mind? Oh, you know what it probably was? At the Louisiana
Marathon in 2015, we had the opportunity to meet Dave McGilvery, who was the keynote speaker at the
Louisiana Marathon. And he had found out that we were getting ready and preparing for our first
transcontinental run from Seattle to New York City. And of course, Dave had done the same thing
in 1978. He ran from Medford, Oregon to Medford, Massachusetts. So there was a special place in his
heart for what we were getting ready to attempt. And he brought us each some Boston Marathon
apparel and presented us with that on stage as he delivered his keynote speech. And I would say
that's probably when Seamus was really introduced to Boston. Yeah, so that was eight or nine years
ago and Seamus at the time you weren't old enough to run Boston. So there is the 18 year old
minimum for riders as well. So you recently just turned 18, right? Yes. And that allowed you guys
the opportunity to do it. So you ran a qualifying race back in August or September? Yeah, you want
to talk about the qualifiers. When was Sacketts? Yeah, that was Labor Day weekend in Sacketts
Harbor. And this was the first time that they were running the race. So it was not, there weren't too
many people there, which was good because going around people in big marathons is a bit of a
challenge and can take up time. So when we're trying to qualify, having that minimal people
there was a little bit helpful. And then so we started out really good. We had a great pace.
And then around mile nine, our chair broke. The handlebar snapped clean off and
my dad had to push the chair from way lower than where he was used to. So he ended up
running the rest of the 17 miles from down low. And we still qualified with a time of 259.
That's awesome. Impressive feat for both of you, I'm sure.
Because it was the first time they had run a marathon, I just reached out to the race director
and explained who we were and what we were attempting to do. And they welcomed us with a
open arms. And we were so grateful for that because originally we had planned to run the
Buffalo marathon. And I did that. I had registered for that because that was where I first qualified
as an individual. I thought it would be neat to go back and qualify there as a team. After I
reached out to the Buffalo race director, he had actually invited Seamus and I to be the keynote
speakers for their dinner. And we were going to sign books at their expo. And then Seamus' Odyssey
of the Mind team qualified for the world finals last year. So we had to postpone our plans and
change our plans. So I reached out to Sackett's Harbor kind of last minute, just maybe six weeks
before the race. And again, they welcomed us with open arms. So it all worked out really, really
well. There's a qualifying window for Boston that ends like mid September. And I only know because
the other night I was looking at what would qualify for the World Finals. And I was like,
I'm looking at what would qualify Jacob and I possibly for like 2025. And I think we have to
run before September 15th or something. So Sackett's, you said Sackett's is Labor Day
weekend. Isn't Buffalo a little bit later in the fall? Buffalo is actually Memorial Day weekend.
Oh, okay. All right. When I was marathoning as an individual, I used to double. I used to do Boston
and then five or six weeks later I would do Buffalo. But yeah, I mean, I'd recommend Sackett's
Harbor. Definitely. It's an out and back course, a little bit uphill on the way out and downhill on
the way back. And yeah, I mean, it worked out really, really well for us. And the great thing
about Sackett's Harbor, like you mentioned, there's that window for qualifying for Boston.
Well, Sackett's Harbor falls in the window that qualifies you for two years. So if you're between
the first and 15th of September, I think you get a two year qualifier or you know, whatever it is,
18 months. So we are actually qualified at Sackett's Harbor for 2025 as well. Though perfect.
Yeah, that works out perfectly. So maybe we'll transition to Boston this year. Seamus, what was
your favorite part of the weekend? I guess I know you guys kind of came in late because you had a
competition. So you didn't really get there till Sunday. But maybe what was your favorite part of
the race? Definitely the crowd. Most marathons that I run, it feels like the time that it takes.
But at Boston, with the crowd, all the energy and the positivity, it did not feel like we were out
there for almost three hours. It went by very fast. Yeah, the crowds are crazy. Yeah, crowds
are insane. I actually found that. Oh, go ahead. I was just gonna say one of the things that he said
to me was, Dad, it feels like we're at the finish line of every other marathon the whole way. Yeah,
exactly. The whole way. Yeah, it was crazy. We couldn't hear any of the music on our chair.
Usually we have a speaker playing music, couldn't hear any of it. I almost felt like I was getting
kind of propelled to running. I shouldn't say I almost felt I definitely got propelled to running
way faster than I wanted to because of the crowds. So it almost like was a not it certainly wasn't a
negative, but it got me way thrown off for sure. No doubt. I mean, that is a challenge in Boston,
always. The transcontinental runs that you guys have done, I know they've had a mission behind them.
It's not just running an insane amount of miles. So maybe could you take us through the two different
segments that you did and what you did along the way? Yeah, so I had mentioned earlier that, you
know, Seamus and I ran that ultra marathon in 2013. Well, after that ultra marathon Seamus
came up with the idea that he'd like to run that far every single day for his summer vacation. And
in that ultra marathon, it was a six hour time event and we had covered 45 miles. So he was like
in first grade at the time. So my wife and I helped him with the math and said, oh, if we ran that
far every single day for summer vacation, we could run 3000 miles. And he thought, you know, that
sounded neat. And he said, how far could we make it if we ran 3000 miles? So we pulled out a map
of the United States and said we could run from this ocean to this ocean and pointed, you know,
Pacific to Atlantic. And it was like a little light bulb went off in Seamus's head. And he said,
we got to do that. And my wife and I honestly kind of brushed it off at the time he was seven years
old. And, you know, it was fun. It was neat to dream about and think about, but we never actually
thought that it would come to fruition. And we would come up with, you know, reasons or excuses.
You know, like it's going to take a lot of time. I don't know if I can train or prepare my body
for that. I don't even know if it's physically possible or financially possible and on and on.
But about three months later, Seamus was persisting. And when I was tucking him in,
after reading him his bedtime story, he said, Dad, when we run across America, can we donate chairs
to kids like me? Can we gift them chairs so that they can feel what it's like to go fast? And,
you know, I walked out of his room and said to my wife, we got to try. We got to try to make this
happen. So for the next 18 months, I trained in earnest and we planned and tried to figure out
all the logistics. And in the summer of 2015, we started, like I said, Puget Sound in Seattle,
Washington and ran 56 miles a day for 60 consecutive days. And we donated 35 Freedom
Running chairs to kids and families along the way. All Seamus' idea. Nothing that was ever on my
bucket list. Seamus, great idea. Very, very kind of, very kind to your dad to have him running that
much. What were the logistics of donating all those chairs? Were chapters kind of along the route
meeting you guys or were you transporting? At that point, we weren't as, Ainsley's Angels wasn't as
wide reaching as it is now. In fact, a lot of our Ainsley's Angels ambassadorships, or at least a
handful were born out of that run across America. So what we did to solicit like applications for
families was we reached out to iRun4, which is like a Facebook community of people that run for
individuals with disabilities or special needs. We took applications from them and we ended up with
35 applications. The only caveat of the application was that they had to be able to get near or to the
route that we were running. We got 35 applications and we were able to raise enough money to donate
all 35 of those chairs. Seamus, what was the most challenging part of that summer?
So on day six, there was a lot of negative stuff that happened. We got a late start and we had to
present a chair live on TV. So having a late start from that, not a bad reason to have a late start,
but we made it to our destination a little bit later. And then there was a gas leak in the RV,
which caused my mom to have a migraine. It was like a propane leak inside. Yeah. So she opened
the vents and then we were driving to like a party that they were throwing for us a barbecue.
And we forgot to close the vents. So a tree took the panel clean off and my brother was going to
make me a sandwich and he cut his finger while he was doing that. So he was throwing up and passing
out. And then so we got to our party and we'd said to decompress. And I said to my family,
why do you guys look so sad? We had a great day today. We got to donate a chair on TV.
We got to do an interview. And after the barbecue, we were going to a water park. So a lot of positive
things. And so I think the hardest part was staying positive through the whole time. But
when we were together as a family, that was pretty easy.
Yeah. Sean, does that positivity from Seamus translate to races as well? And how does it help
your performance in races, especially when you meet adversary like Sackets Harbor or Boston when
it's a challenging course in the later half? Yeah. I mean Seamus is and has always been the
eternal optimist. And I personally am not always that way. I'm always running through scenarios
of what could go wrong and what do I need to do to plan to try and avert that. But Seamus always
kind of has the attitude that things are going to work out and he's always right. That positivity
definitely helps to propel us through everything really. Not just racing, but every day. We run
into obstacles. We run into challenges. But I think about some of the things that we do
about some of the obstacles and challenges that Seamus faces on a daily basis and that we're able
to work together as a team to overcome that. And maybe that's kind of the reason that he has the
attitude he does of positivity. So no doubt. I mean, when the chair broke in Sackets Harbor,
it wasn't even a question about stopping. It was, you know, how are we going to make this work so
that we can continue to try and meet our qualifying time? And we did have to make some adjustments.
You know, I couldn't turn the chair because I had no leverage like we normally, you know,
pop a wheelie and turn. And we had hairpin turns because it was an out and back. So I ran around
to the front of the chair, lifted up the front tire and dragged them behind me when I needed to.
And there were several turns that we had to do that on. And again, we still met the qualifying
standard. Seamus kept his smile the entire time. And I'm sure that that helped me to stay positive.
Yeah, it was a great article in Runners World about it. We'll have to link it in the show notes
of the episode so people can read about the Sackets Harbor experience. But Seamus, have you
guys had any races where the conditions like weather-wise were less than ideal? And how does
it feel? That was my biggest fear with Boston was it was going to be cold and raining just for Jacob's
sake, like getting pelted with rain for three or four hours. What is the worst race experience
that you've had weather-wise? Three years ago? I don't know which one do you think? Marine Corps.
Oh yeah. Yeah. So about three years ago, we were running Marine Corps and we said, you know,
this was probably going to be our last Marine Corps as I was entering high school. And the weather
for that was about probably 40 degrees and cold, cold downpours of rain. It's not fun. The chair
was filling with water. So anytime we would tip to turn, all the water would rush to like the back
where I was sitting. So that was not very comfortable. And after the race, I said,
we cannot end on that year. That was not a good enough weather to end. So we ended up continuing
to do Marine Corps. Yeah. There were parts of that race where we were running through
eight inches. And I'm not exaggerating eight inches of standing water on the road. It's just
probably the most challenging weather that we've ever run in just because it was relentless rain.
I had put Seamus's feet in like a bag, like a plastic bag to try and keep them dry. When we
finished the race, I dumped about two gallons of water out of that bag. That's great. There was no
staying dry. Since then, we've gotten a nice little rain shield that is a little more tight
fitting and fits the chair a little better. So if we encounter those type of conditions again,
we'll be a little better prepared. You guys have done a lot of races and
kind of all around the country. What marathon or shorter distance, I suppose, as well race,
would you say is the most inclusive? Or what do you notice about some races that are more inclusive
than others? What makes them more inclusive? I would say Marine Corps marathon seems to be
one of the more inclusive races that we participated in just because of the number of wheels on the
course and the way that they take care of the wheeled athletes. We're amongst the start. I
think there's like a hundred duos usually, which is unique. And then a lot of hand crank and push
rim. And of course, there's a lot of veterans involved in that race. I would say that's probably
one of the most inclusive that we've ever been a part of. And that takes place right around
Halloween weekend every year in Washington, DC. Yeah. And I mean, this year we were a part of the
biggest duo field that Boston's ever had. But obviously, I would love to see them continue to
expand that division. I feel like if you can accommodate 20, I'm not sure why you couldn't
accommodate 30. Yeah. And you look at Marine Corps marathon, and I think that the total
field is something like 40,000. And like I said, a hundred duos, a hundred
duos, and probably as many hand cranks all on the course together sharing the road.
What's the line between competing as a duo and advocating as a duo? Is there a downside of
wanting to run well, or are we supposed to just be content with being out there and showcasing
inclusion? You know, I think that even coming out of Boston and us having a surprisingly good,
faster time than I expected just helps with publicity for what we do. So I think the two
can go hand in hand. It doesn't just have to be that we're going out to participate, though I
think that is our number one goal is going out to participate. But then when you do it with a little
bit of competitive spirit and a little bit of pace, it draws a little more attention. And like
you mentioned the Runners World article, Seamus and I were driving home from the race on Monday,
and I think we did three interviews on the car ride home through the van speakerphone,
just because people have heard of what we have done as a duo, what we've accomplished as a family.
And I think that it does help a little bit to be able to still run, rely on Seamus to pull me a
little faster once in a while. Yeah, and I mean, it certainly doesn't diminish the accomplishments
of anyone that's not competing for a specific time. It's still equally essential. But I do think
you're right that it turns a little more heads and hopefully like even at Boston, like there's
prize purses for every division except duos. So like maybe it will get to a point where duos
are recognized in the same lens that push rim or hand cycle is and it probably would require people
like yourselves kind of moving that forward as a more competitive field. Yeah, yeah, I thought the
same thing as we were driving home on Monday. You know, the other thing that obviously has helped
a lot is Dick and Rick's longevity in doing it. And hopefully Seamus and I are able to maintain
that as a father son duo. You know, it's just astounding how long they were able to do it for.
And then, you know, when I have to retire, maybe Seamus's brother can step in and continue Seamus
being able to participate. Yeah, yeah, that would be awesome. I mean, my favorite part of what you've
shared so far is just the closeness of your family, even like a summer being spent running, living in
an RV, like that's just really impressive to me. So I think my favorite part of the whole story is
just how close you guys are. And honestly, you know, that was one of the hardest parts of Monday was
that Nicole and Simon couldn't be there. You know, they had obligations back here with Simon with
track practice and Nicole with school that they just, they didn't feel like they could stay there
like they could step away from it. And we totally understood it, but it was hard to not have them
at a race like Boston, you know, when they are by our sides or cheering us on as much as possible.
And you know, you mentioned that summer of 2015. Those are some of my most favorite memories.
Yeah, it was amazing. We saw some amazing things and ran across the country. But honestly, some of
my most favorite memories are time in the RV, just the four of us, you know, out on the road,
you know, visiting around that tiny little table at dinner or playing games at UNO or whatever.
I'm going to cherish those memories forever. Yeah, absolutely. I can't imagine that your favorite
part of that experience was running nearly 60 miles a day. I can't imagine that was the most
comfortable part of the experience. But Seamus, what are your goals for the next few years,
maybe both academically and athletically? Yeah. So coming up pretty, pretty soon, I'm
hosting a Blue Gene mile at my school to raise awareness for mental illness and suicide awareness.
So that is where people will come to our high school track. They'll throw on a pair of blue
jeans and run a mile. And then I'll give them a, everyone will get an award of some sort.
And then after that, starting to get ready for college, I recently committed to U Albany
to study physics and mechanical engineering. Really impressive. Is U Albany close to where you guys
live? Yeah, it's about like 45 minutes away. But Seamus' goal is to go and live on campus. And
that's what we're trying to navigate as a family now is, you know, we've been, you know, we've been
working with the residents life and disability services, and they're all on board. Now it's just
a matter of finding the personal care assistance that that will be able to help them. Yeah. Why
don't you tell them about some of the other athletic things that you do in general and hope
to continue? Oh, yeah. So, um, yeah, one of the one of the big ones is right now I'm shooting
track currently, and we have two competitions coming up that I'm going to, hopefully, can do
pretty well. And then over the summer, I will be a part of the why not sailing club at Lake George.
And last year I won the the regatta that they hosted. So hopefully this summer, I'll be able
to participate in that again. So one of the really neat things about that program, again, it's called
why not, is Seamus can totally sail independently. Now, I didn't know anything about sailing, but
Seamus, they have the boats rigged. They're for people with disabilities. They have a joystick
that operates the rudder and the pulleys for the rope so he can operate the sails. And Seamus
has been sailing since he was 12 years old. I hopped in the boat with him because they were short
volunteers one day this summer and Seamus has us like sideways at a 45 degree angle. And I'm like
Seamus, is this is this what we're supposed to be doing? We were flying with the wind and it was
just amazing. So the thing that's neat about that is he you know, he doesn't have to rely on my legs
to propel him. And he can do it solo. It's really, really rewarding to watch. Absolutely, Sean. As
a father, maybe 18 years ago, when you found out that Seamus was going to have cerebral palsy,
what were your initial reactions? And how has what he's accomplished over the last 18 years
likely vastly exceeded all of your expectations, I would imagine? Yeah, you know, it's interesting
because Seamus wasn't diagnosed with cerebral palsy at birth. He was, you know, as far as the
doctors in the hospital and everything were concerned was, you know, he was born a healthy
baby, his APGAR scores are normal, there was no, you know, trauma or anything that you often hear
about with cerebral palsy. My job at the time was pediatric physical therapy. And that's all I was
doing, working primarily with individuals with neurological conditions similar or or having
cerebral palsy. So I actually took it to the doctor several times. And I said, I think, you know,
some of the things that Seamus is exhibiting, you know, he was holding his hands and tight little
fists. He had ankle clonus, which is kind of that, you know, beating of his ankles.
There were just a few different things that I took to the doctors. And they just said, Sean,
you're just paranoid dad who knows too much, he's gonna outgrow it. You know, there's nothing really
to be concerned about here. Finally, when he was about 10 months old, and wasn't really sitting or
crawling or anything, they agreed to an early intervention evaluation. He obviously qualified
because he had developmental delay. And then about two months later, that right later than that,
right around his first birthday is when we saw a neurologist, he was actually diagnosed with
cerebral palsy. So your question was, you know, how did you how did you feel? Or how did you react?
And I think I had known that it was coming for a long time. And my wife, you know, and I had had
obviously had a lot of conversations about it. And Nicole at the time was a special education
teacher. So we were well versed in what services were available and how to navigate that system.
And, and without ever really talking about it, you know, Nicole and I, you know, set the plan in
progress to whatever Seamus wants to try or do, we're going to figure out a way to make that
happen through how you know, how we have to accommodate, adapt, and make things accessible.
And that's what we've done his entire life. And then, you know, he asked how how he kind of Seamus
his last 18 years have turned out now. Again, my goal was to get him involved and to participate in
whatever he wanted to do. I had no idea that he was going to bring our family on the journey
that we've been on. I mean, I, again, beyond my wildest dreams, I had no idea that he was going
to be such a big dreamer and such a positive beam of light in this family, and really has led the
way. And a lot of times I say, you know, I'm just here riding Seamus's coattails and helping to put
his his mission into being and he has really helped us to figure out and see what inclusion is all about.
Yeah. Now you guys are very involved with Ainsley's Angels, which is an organization that does
something similar for a lot of families around the country. Seamus, do you want to tell the audience
a little bit about what Ainsley's Angels is? Yeah. So Ainsley's Angels is a rider athlete organization,
and they'll pair able body runners with our rider athletes and participate in endurance events like
5Ks, marathons, ultra marathons, and then some people have even done triathlons, which is a
really cool experience. Are you guys going to do any triathlons or have you done any triathlons?
We have. We've done three or four. Yeah, yeah, we've done several. And the neat thing about
Ainsley's Angels, and I know you know, Brendan, is we're really trying to branch out even just
beyond race day and figuring out how we can bring inclusion to every day, you know, it's a really
great way to do that. And so we're trying to do that every day, you know, through our ally
development program and more inclusion experiences beyond race day, whether that be, you know, an
outing or a move, you know, sensory friendly movie nights or whatever, we just want everybody to be
able to be included and involved in whatever they want to try. Yeah, can you maybe just elaborate a
little bit on that? So launched last November, our ally development program is geared at creating
disability allies, people that can help to promote inclusion, disability awareness, and disability
acceptance in their local communities. And that's what the program is geared toward educating them
about what they need to do. And so the goal of the program is for each individual in the cohort to
create a community inclusion project that addresses a need in their local community, whether
it be, you know, an accessible playground or adult size changing tables in the in the restroom or
accessible entrances to businesses, whatever it is, and they're working on those projects now,
Yeah, I love that. And some of the I've stayed in contact with a few of the people that I met
from Boston when I came up to speak to that group. But I love how comprehensive it is, right. So
racing is important racing showcases inclusion, but there's a lot more to getting your community
involved and making your community more inclusive and accessible. So I think that program kind of
bridges that gap really nicely. Thank you. What is what's next for you guys? Do you have plans for
our next races? Yeah, what are you talking about what you're doing? Well, I mean, we have we have
a couple short races here and we will run with our local ambassadorship here all spring and summer
before she heads off to college. But we have some big plans for the fall. Yeah. So in October,
we're going to be running the Marine Corps marathon again. But this time I won't be running
with my dad. He's going to be pushing our friend, Jill, and my friend, my friend, John, who's also
an a six ambassador is going to be pushing me in his first marathon ever. So it'll be really fun
to see how he feels about that experience, not only being his first marathon, but his first time
pushing someone. Yeah, absolutely. Is that the first time that someone other than your dad has
pushed you in a race? Not maybe a marathon. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because I think about that sometimes
where like, for example, like I, we host a 5k for my gym. And so instead of instead of running,
I'm organizing the race. So Jacob doesn't participate because I'm not running. And I
sometimes wonder if like, if I would want someone else pushing him, I don't know, to me, it feels
like something that him and I do together, like it feels like a special thing that him and I do
together. So was there any part of you that was like hesitant to let someone else push Seamus?
There's been a few, there's been a few situations. One, you know, like he ran the, a mother love and
run 5k with my wife one time, which was really neat and a group of her friends. He's run a couple
races with me and Simon with Simon, his brother doing the bulk of the pushing again, that's all
family stuff. But then we went down and ran the Louisiana marathon and I might've been like 2017
or 18. And one of his friends pushed him in the half marathon down there with a group of adults
that were there to assist as needed. So there's been a couple, you know, individual unique
opportunities, but I tend to be the same way, you know, I like having Seamus to lean on and that
smile to pull me along. And I have not really run a race other than a couple trail races when I was
training for the run across America. I haven't run a race without Seamus since 2012 or 2011 or
something. It's been a long time. Yeah. Yeah. I've never raced without Jacob and I never had raced
before Jacob and I started running together. So it's something that just, I guess that
uniqueness makes it feel a little more personal. Like, I don't think I would ever want to push
someone else. And I'm not sure selfishly whether I would want someone outside of my wife to push
Jacob. She's pushed him in like our local 5k and stuff, but it just does feel like some sort of
special bond that we've come in. I often tell my coach that I'm faster with the chair than I am
without. And maybe that's because I don't have any running experience or maybe it is a biomechanics
thing, but like for you, do you feel like it's a lot harder to run fast with the chair or? I mean,
I think over this Seamus and I have now been running together for, I mean, longer, but racing
together for 11 years. And I think that, you know, I just have kind of evolved into, you know, how to
master running with the chair. I don't feel like I need my arms anymore. And I do a lot of running
without the chair too, because I run with his brother Simon and we train together. But as far
as racing with the chair, like in Boston on Monday, I was glad I had the chair. Yeah, absolutely. And
maybe like, I kind of glanced over quickly, but in Boston, I guess, how did you feel like the course
was with the chair or how do you feel like running it was? Well, do you want to, I mean,
I had told Brendan we were going to go out at seven minute pace. Yeah, I was not lying. That
was my intention. You lied to me. I turned, the gun goes off and you already had like a 20 second
lead on all of us. You must have, I split 540 for the first mile. So you must have been 515 or 520
because you were a good, you were a good 15 or 20 seconds ahead of us.
You want to talk about those first few miles, Jay?
So when the gun goes off and we start out sprinting and my dad had told me his plan and I'm like,
I don't know how close they were sticking to the plan. And then we get about five miles in and I
get a text from my mom saying, what the heck? I thought you guys were sticking to six minutes.
I was like, tell your dad to save some for a heartbreak. So I read him that text and then he
reined it in a little bit. And we stuck to the plan of going slow, easy on the
uphills, cranked it on the downhills. And then through that plan, we were able to get our PR.
Yeah. I was just going to say as far as the course goes, as far as the course goes,
I forgot how undulating Boston was and I had run it six times, but it's been 15 years since I last
ran it. And those undulating hills, that's what beats you up because you're down and then you're
up and then you're down. And it's like what we train in all the time. But that's why my legs are
so sore today. I'm still feeling the ramifications as well. But yeah, it was something where I just
could not really slow down the first half. And I'm getting texts. We have our phone mounted on the
arrow bars. I'm getting texts like, oh, you're crushing it. I'm like, no, this is not good.
This is not what I wanted. They're like, you're doing great. I'm like, it's not going to end well.
But I knew it was coming. My only disappointment is that I was cramping so bad by 17 that I couldn't
really run up the hills. But I actually didn't think the Newton Hills were that intimidating.
There's a lot of reprieves where you go uphill, but then you're kind of running on a flat or
downhill for a little bit of time. So they didn't feel quite as unrelenting as you may think.
I don't know. Yeah. And the last one is really where I felt it. And that was just the cumulative
effect of everything that we had done. But as soon as we got to the top, I kind of shook my arm,
shook my legs out, and we were right back into it. In fact, Simon was tracking us from physics class.
And he said, Dad, I saw that you had this one mile that was 906. And he was worried. He figured
that I had cramped up or that we were going to struggle from there on. And then he said,
but the next mile was 608. Yeah, exactly. And it was good. And like you said, that reprieve,
and it allows you to use some different muscles. And for me, it allowed me to lean on Seamus and
let him do the work on the downhills. As long as my stride could go, I tried to let it go.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's definitely different running with the chair. It's probably a type
of stride that you adopt to kind of like get used to over time, for sure. But you guys have a lot
of great resources. You have a book that you guys wrote together, right? If people are interested in
purchasing that or learning more about your story as a whole, is there a specific
website or channel that we should direct them to? Yeah, I mean, if people want to follow what Seamus
is up to or what Seamus and I are up to, our Instagram, Facebook pages are power to push.
That's power, the number two, and then push. And then as far as like ordering the book,
it is available on Amazon. But we prefer that everybody order from Ainsley's Angels.org. It's
the exact same price. It's free shipping in both places. But that way Ainsley's Angels gets a
little more of the profits. All the money for the sales of the books goes toward benefiting Ainsley's
Angels and promoting the mission of inclusion. And you know, eventually a goal of ours is to...
So that book primarily I wrote alone, but Seamus and I do have the goal of writing a book together
where I think it would be neat to kind of alternate chapters. So we'll see how his schedule allows us
to do something like that. But that would be, I think, pretty neat in the future. Yeah, I'm sure
you'll have a lot of free time with your physics and mechanical engineering workload as well to
write a book. Sounds perfect. But yeah, we'll include some of those links in the show notes
so people can easily find them. And maybe lastly, if like someone wants to get involved with Ainsley's
Angels and if there isn't a chapter already in their community, what would be the process of them
starting one? Oh yeah, I really appreciate that question. You know, AinsleysAngels.org is the
place to go and then click join our family. If there is a location in your area and we are in
between 60 and 70 cities and towns across America, but if we're not in your local
area or region, there's an opportunity to become an ambassador. We take any interested individuals,
you know, through an application process and then again provide the education so that it's not such
a daunting task to be able to start and develop and create a thriving ambassadorship in their area.
Absolutely. Awesome. Yeah, so we'll include all those links so people can easily find them.
But Sean, Seamus, thanks for the conversation. Congratulations on Boston. I know it was a long
journey to get there and a great day, hopefully. You guys ran really well. Appreciate everything
you guys do for the world of inclusion and inclusive endurance sports as a whole.
Oh, thanks. And likewise to you too, all that you do. And again, the cohort has reached out to me a
lot of times, you know, that said that they've been listening to your lectures and your podcasts,
and everything that you do. So we really appreciate it. I hope that we can keep that
relationship going for future cohorts and that you will continue to be involved because
that means a lot. Yeah, you might catch us up in Sacketts Harbor as a last ditch effort of
making it into Boston again next year. Yeah, if you're interested in going to Sacketts Harbor,
I can put you in touch with the race director. So the Sacketts Harbor race director also ran
Boston on Monday. You were talking to him, right? I think I saw you guys talking to him before after
the race. Yeah, yeah, she's incredible. And I'm sure they would love to have another duo. Seamus
and I won't be there this year in Sacketts Harbor, because he'll be, you know, at school.
But if you guys go up, maybe Simon and I will go up and run the half marathon or something and
cheer you on. That'd be really cool. So let me know. Wonderful. I will. Thanks again, guys. I'll
talk to you soon. Yeah, take it easy, Brandon. Bye.