Alright, welcome to the Adaptex Podcast where we have conversations with individuals who
are building accessible businesses, advocating for inclusion, or excelling in adaptive sports.
Our intention is never to speak on behalf of those with disabilities, but provide a
platform with insights into a more accessible world.
Today we are joined by Joe LeMar.
Joe has spent more than 30 years serving as a coach, primarily in cross-country, indoor
and outdoor track and field.
In addition to being a coach, Joe has also been a Paralympic medalist and world champion
in wheelchair softball.
Joe brings his experience in relationships with Special Olympics, Olympics, and Paralympics
together to lead the Boston Achilles team, a fully inclusive running club of Boston.
Joe, thank you for joining me today.
Yeah, thanks for having me.
I probably could have fixed the grammar in that.
So you're a Paralympic medalist in running activities and then a world champion in wheelchair
softball, just to differentiate between the two.
So prior to being a Paralympic athlete, you were an accomplished track and field athlete.
So maybe taking us back to your early career with running as a whole before you became
an adaptive athlete.
Yeah, definitely.
So as a kid, I was active in all sports.
I was always outside, whether it would be playing in the neighborhood, playing on the
streets, whether it be kickball, kick the can, whatever it was back then, or running
over to the park to jump in a baseball game with all the kids in the neighborhood or onto
the basketball court playing basketball.
In middle school, I started really getting into soccer.
So I was really a big time soccer player then.
But I found out one day at the beach that I had a lump on my foot and we went and had
it looked at and it turned out to be a tumor that needed to be removed.
And at that time, I was just a kid saying, what's going on here?
And not having any idea to what a tumor was in the first place, being a growth that could
go and affect your entire life and had the surgery to have it removed.
It actually drew back the following year when I was in eighth grade.
And at that time, they had to amputate the toe next to my big toe.
And I was told at that time that I'd have a hard time walking, nevermind running.
So hearing that and hearing a doctor tell me that, I decided I had friends that were
running cross-country.
So I'm like, all right, forget about soccer because it's going to be difficult and hurt
all the time kicking a ball and everything around.
I'm like, let's see if I can get away with running on it.
So I ran cross-country indoor and outdoor track all three seasons, almost all four years
of high school at Brockton High.
I ended up becoming New England champ indoors in the mile, which was a huge feat knowing
that the entire time, the year before, the tumor resurfaced again when I was a junior.
And I was told at that time that they would definitely have to amputate the foot because
it was throughout the entire foot and they could not get it all.
And I bided my time.
I was literally begging the doctor not to take it right then and there when they wanted
to during that cross-country season.
And I ended up getting away with running cross-country and indoors the entire seasons and then a
couple of meets outdoors.
And then it was time to have the foot unfortunately amputated my staining year of high school.
Were you having to weigh the pros and cons of kind of prolonging that procedure where
the doctor is telling you that it could have longer term implications if you didn't get
it done sooner?
Absolutely.
You know, and it could go spread throughout the leg and hearing all those stories.
But we were just going constantly back for visits to make sure that we were getting it
sized and everything else to know that it wasn't spreading further and everything.
So that's the only reason I was able to get away with finishing that indoor season.
And then you've had some setbacks in the years following the initial amputation, correct?
You had to have multiple surgeries to resolve.
So after having the big major surgery and everything, I got back into running, found
out about running, you know, which was unbelievable.
A nurse actually brought me a Runners World magazine that had an article in it on the
Paralympics.
And I was like, this is what I want to do.
And I went right to my prosthesis and everything and asked, can you make me a running leg?
And they said, no problem.
And next thing I got involved.
And that was probably took six months after the amputation to get into a really good walking
leg and everything.
You know, I probably went through one or two different sockets throughout the four or five
months and then boom, once we got that fit down, everything else was pretty much clear
sailing.
And I went on to compete in Barcelona in 92 and won the 400 meter run over there.
Then in 93, I started having a few issues in which I was still growing at the time.
So I actually bottomed out and split through the skin and everything else.
So I had to have a revision done at that time to go and, you know, lose a couple more inches
so that my stump would be fine after that.
Before we dive into the Paralympic experience, could you have competed in high school as
an amputee?
If you had had that surgery earlier, would you have been able to compete in traditional
track and field with a running blade?
Oh, I believe I could have, but I didn't know anything at all about any type of disabled
sports.
Yeah.
Not even from like a competency standpoint, like I'm sure you'd be fast enough to run.
But at the time, was the landscape of inclusion, was it different?
It was non-existent.
Yeah.
I wonder if you would have been allowed to compete or if people would have seen it as
an unfair advantage.
Even at the time that I had a running blade and everything else, I was trying to find
races and tried to find organizations that I could fit into.
I was pushed off to the Special Olympics and they told me, no, you don't belong here.
You don't belong with us.
Then I finally found out about Disabled Sports USA and everything.
That was the path to go down to get into the Paralympics.
But then again, I wish we had the technology we have now to go on Google and just say,
oh, here we go.
It's all opened up to me.
But nope, there are lots of phone calls and lots of being sent in the wrong directions
and you learn from it.
Again, nowadays they have it a lot easier.
What was that qualification process like in 92 or the years beforehand to qualify for
Barcelona?
It was pretty much the top three in each event qualified to go on to Barcelona.
Coming from a distance background, back then they thought that amputees, leg amputees especially,
couldn't run that far at the time.
So it was like the furthest event for a below knee amputee was the 400 meters.
That was a little disappointing, again, being a miler having to become a sprinter.
Did I read that for Barcelona you were in TS2, but then in a later competition you were
in T44?
Is that correct?
Yeah, they're the same things.
The classifications just changed over the years so they started using different terminology.
Yeah, I figured that was going to be my question.
What are the pros and cons, and maybe there are no cons, of the Paralympic classification
system?
Did you have any difficulty with them?
Anything that you can identify as a challenge?
So throughout the years there were a number of challenges.
It was at certain events, like it was the 1999 World Championships over in Spain.
They had us classified with people with cerebral palsy.
It was like, what are you talking about?
How is that fair for them to be running against a leg amputee?
At that event I ended up not only losing the 800, but I lost my world record.
It was literally right at the line for a lean to somebody with cerebral palsy.
I'm like, how is this fair?
Again, it was the governing bodies at the time that didn't understand the differences
or didn't care to look at the differences.
All they wanted was for everybody just to compete.
So that's what happened.
There's probably something to be said about inclusion of abilities while also having a
level playing field.
That record that you lost was resolved after the fact, correct?
A few years later, yes.
I got a certificate in the mail literally that said, world record holder and everything,
but I didn't get the gold medal from the World Championships.
Yeah, hardly a consolation prize.
Still only got the silver medal.
Between us and everybody now on the podcast, I ended up getting three silver medals that
year.
The 400, 800 and the 4x4 relay.
That silver medal for the 800 is the only medal that I didn't bring home throughout
my entire career.
My mother got every single medal except for that one.
That one went to a little kid over in Spain who was our helper throughout the entire two
weeks that we were there and everything.
He would go and carry the laundry bag with all my clothes in it and my water bottle and
everything else, my spikes and stuff like that.
He was always assigned to every race of mine.
So he ended up getting that medal.
How has Paralympic competition evolved over the last three decades even to more recently?
The more recent games were the first ones that were nationally televised, I believe,
and I'm sure there'll be even more coverage for the summer game.
How have you seen that landscape change over the last couple of decades?
It's great.
It's really wonderful to see.
You go and see the US OPC now.
United States Olympic and Paralympic Committee.
Where Paralympics is in there.
That wasn't taking place when I was competing.
It was just the US Olympic Committee.
The US Paralympic Committee had their own governing body.
So seeing that it's at the Olympic level as well as the Olympic and Paralympic Committee,
overseeing things, it's tremendous to know that they are hand in hand right now and to
know that every country that wants to host the Olympics has to go and host the Paralympics
those few weeks later.
That's a tremendous thing to accomplish and see.
Then you start seeing the level of our Paralympic athletes right now.
It's like, yeah, let's go and see a couple of elite basketball players in the NBA go
and try playing basketball in a wheelchair.
See how they feel a couple of hours after pushing.
How can you dispel that narrative that Paralympic competition is less than or adaptive athletes
are less than?
Right there, less than, it's far from it.
If anybody who's a professional at any level decides to go and challenge a Paralympic athlete
who is at that elite level, there's no question they'll realize and get the respect that they
are an athlete.
Do you think it's useful then as an educational experience for able-bodied individuals, and
we'll just use that as a differentiating term, to experience and participate in seated and
adaptive sports?
I think it would be wonderful.
I think it should start at a younger age and everything.
I think you go and look at some of the models.
Canada goes and has able-bodied kids playing wheelchair basketball all the time in some
of their schools.
It's just so that those kids who are physically challenged, who are in need of using a wheelchair
and everything, are able to go and have phys ed classes that allow them to play with their
peers.
It would be great to have that in the US at some of the schools and everything.
Even going and looking at sitting volleyball, for instance, you can go and accomplish tennis.
Anybody can go and accomplish tennis and know the difference between wheelchair tennis.
They get two bounces.
Regular tennis, you still only get the one, even though you're playing somebody in a wheelchair.
Yeah.
I thought I read online that you were part of a committee trying to push for the games
in Boston or the games in Massachusetts.
Is there any headway to that?
Do you actually see that as a logistic possibility?
That fell apart many years ago.
It was Paris ended up getting 2024.
LA took over 2028.
That was our loss, unfortunately.
What is the biggest barrier or limitation that Boston presents in hosting an event like
that?
I don't know.
You get asked by politicians, unfortunately, who might not have wanted it and other people
that didn't want it because it would only be great for the tourist industry for the
future.
Yeah.
No, it's interesting.
I'm sure it's a huge logistical challenge, especially in a city like Boston that's already
congested to begin with.
The events were going to be spread out elsewhere.
Like Fall River was going to host the rowing or sailing or something like that.
It wasn't like everything was going to be in the center of downtown.
What was your transition like from going from a competitive athlete?
Or I guess maybe at what point did you decide that your competition career should be over
and you could transition into your role as a coach?
I wouldn't say that my competition career is over because I still do compete in wheelchair
basketball, softball, and football right now.
But after Sydney in 2000, I got beat by a kid and I was like, I don't have it.
If I'm not going to be the best, I didn't want it.
It's sad to say, but if I wasn't going to be at that elite level in track and field,
that's when I knew that it was time to hang up the spikes.
When you transitioned to wheelchair sports?
I didn't transition to wheelchair sports for eight years.
I went and knew about them the whole time.
I was going all the time to the Brockton VA to support the basketball players that were
playing and they would always ask me to play.
But I thought, I'm an amputee.
I don't belong in a wheelchair.
That's the mindset that I always had.
Then one of the guys that was always asking me year after year decided to go and roll
over my good foot in his wheelchair and he said, what are you going to do about it?
There's a chair right over there.
I'm like, fine.
All right.
Then I was hooked.
He literally handed it to me, the smallest guy on the court, handed it to the big guy
and everything and I'm like, I can't let this happen.
You get the competitive juices flowing again.
It was, yep.
Next thing I knew, I was in the gym three times a week playing wheelchair basketball.
What do you think?
Then that carried over into the next season of playing wheelchair softball with those
guys.
Yeah.
What drew you in addition to clearly this competitive drive of needing to be excellent
at sports that you compete in, but what do you think drew you to wheelchair basketball
and some of those sports?
Again, it was just the athletes that were out there.
They said that I should be doing it and that I belong and their acceptance of me was huge
and then again, like you said, if you're a competitor, you just are and you have that
drive and you want to get better and that's what I saw from then on out.
At what point did you start coaching cross country and track and field?
I was coaching the whole time that I was running, so back in the 90s.
I was always coaching cross country, indoor and outdoor track.
I was thankful to the schools that I was at because they would allow me to go off and
still compete all around the world.
How were your athletes receptive to you as an amputee?
Do you think they questioned your ability as a coach?
At least, I guess you have a physical disability that you can still ambulate in and you can
still run and you have this prolific and accomplished career.
Do you think if you were maybe a wheelchair user trying to coach people on running, it
would be received differently?
I would hope not.
I would hope that if you have the knowledge and ability to be able to coach and you were
the best candidate to be in that position, you'd get the job and the kids would be welcoming
of that.
My friend Tim Morris, who's a wheelchair user, is a track and field coach out at a high school
in New Hampshire.
I know they've had some very accomplished runners and he does an awesome job with that.
I sometimes wonder the same thing, whether there's any negative beliefs or self-limiting
beliefs that people have about coaches.
I would say definitely not.
Again, if you go and you care and you show the athletes that you care and you see their
improvement throughout the season, that's what counts.
What have been maybe your biggest highlights or moments that maybe stick out as a coach?
Oh boy, there are way too many.
I've had numerous state champions that I've worked with over the years and I'm not going
to name them because I do not want to miss anybody, but they all know who they are and
still in touch with a number of them, thankfully to Facebook.
Facebook is great, even though it crashed earlier today for us.
Yeah, that was weird.
Actually, now that you mentioned that, I was having trouble with it earlier.
That's fine.
I hadn't even looked into whether it was a nationwide crash.
Early 2000s, you coached some Paralympic sports as well at the Edmonton Games, World Championship
Games in Edmonton?
Yes, I was selected as the 2001 World Championship coach for amputees over in Edmonton, Canada.
That was a big thrill and honor knowing that I had just pretty much finished up my running
in Sydney the year before and was able to take on a responsibility like that.
Again, seeing the athletes, being able to compete and just being there with friends
and everything else, they were able-bodied athletes like Calvin Davis of Dorchester was
running the 400 and hurdles and everything else back then at the World Championships.
He's a bronze medalist from 1996 in the 400 meter hurdles and just rubbing elbows with
those guys was pretty good.
Are there unique training protocols or approaches that you have to take when training an amputee
as opposed to a traditional runner?
Does the wear and tear on the body differ?
It definitely does.
Quality fits is huge.
It's such an intimate product, having a running blade and everything, and you do need a quality
fit, proper alignment is very, very important because that's what gives that spring and
everything else from the running blade.
All those things need to be looked at properly and busting out the video cameras and recording
everything back then was important.
Maybe let's segue into a fitness environment then.
If you were to go into a gym and want to work with a personal trainer, what would you want
them to ask you about your disability and what would you want to maybe not speak about
just from an etiquette and a communication standpoint?
Again, with going in being in an environment like that, it's an open door policy.
The trainer needs to know everything about you and they should know everything about
you.
I wouldn't want to keep any secrets because that's how you get hurt.
I knew when I was lifting and everything, when I was doing some heavy lifting with squats
and everything, I had to get a leg made that could handle that weight.
I wouldn't want my trainer not to know that because guess what?
I get in just on a regular walking leg and I could snap it and get hurt.
So it's those things that yeah, a trainer needs to go and ask how much pressure can
you put on that.
How can a fitness professional be better prepared to support the needs of amputees?
Going and again, asking any and all questions.
Communication is the key.
The amputee themselves might not even know what they don't need for help and assistance.
The communication is one of the categories in the six C's that you mentioned, being
into role to your success as an athlete and a coach.
Do you want to maybe elaborate on that a little bit?
Yeah.
So I have my motto is the six C's to succeed, courage, commitment, character, class, confidence,
and most importantly, communication.
And I look at those and it's something my high school coach had.
He had the five C's.
I added the communication because this day and age, it's the most important thing that
is needed out there to get across.
But you go and look at it and you start off with courage.
You have to be one willing to step up and do things, making that full commitment.
Don't go and be, oh yeah, maybe so.
No, make the commitment.
Go and get it done.
Having that courage, like I said, to go and get it done.
The confidence, believe in yourself.
Having that class, being a class act, being a classy person, showing good sportsmanship
and everything.
What am I missing?
I think you hit all six there.
I think character, but that goes in with class to a degree.
Communication still seems to be one of the main barriers to people interacting and more
effectively supporting people with disabilities.
I don't know, just a concern of what to say and misspeak or use terminology that's not
well received by the individual.
Yeah, and again, in this day and age, yes, we all are politically correct and looking
to be politically correct.
But if you're wanting to learn, I tell everybody, I wear shorts year round for a reason.
All right, ask me.
It's great when I go into a store and the little kid's going, mommy, mommy, look at
this and everything else.
The mom's like whisking the kid off and I'm like, oh, let me go and go back there and
have a chat and everything because I want the kid to go and ask the question so that
he's accepting or she's accepting of somebody later on in life with a disability.
Yeah, that parental response is basically reinforcing the idea like, oh, don't talk
to the person who looks different or don't interact with anyone with a disability because
you don't want to offend them.
But I know it might get tiring for someone like you to a degree to always have to be
in that educational position.
I know when we talked to Nico, he said he has no problem having those conversations,
but sometimes when he's just doing his rudimentary tasks at the grocery store, he doesn't want
necessarily people to come up to him and tell him how inspirational he is for being at
the grocery store.
And that's the thing.
It's like, yes, in certain roles, we are inspirational to people, but do I look at myself that way?
No, I'm just going to go about doing my everyday things that I need to get done for myself.
And when did you first become involved with Achilles, which is how I was initially introduced
to you a year or two ago?
Were you involved as an athlete before you became the Boston chapter?
So way back when, yes, Achilles went and reached out to getting some of the best amputees around
to do a couple of events.
One was the Fifth Avenue Mile and the other was the Ocean to Sound Relay, and they were
both in New York.
I ended up winning the Fifth Avenue Mile on Saturday.
We ran the relay together on Sunday and pretty much it was like six people each doing two
different legs of various distances in this relay.
While they put me in on the first leg for a leg amputee, it was on the boardwalk for
five miles.
And then I got to the handoff area and nobody was there.
I probably got seven miles in when one of the guys jumped out of the van.
I'm like, where have you guys been?
Oh, we didn't think you were going to be running that fast.
I'm like, what are we doing?
And then later on that day, I had another seven mile leg to do for the event.
We did really well, but I went afterwards and I told those guys, I'm like, I'm never
competing with you guys or for you guys again.
You had an arm amputee that could have run that lead off leg for us and been fine on
the boardwalk.
I told them it was unprofessional and everything to be doing that.
Then nobody's there at the handoff and everything.
So then a few years later, quite a few years later, I had worked with and spoken at Harvard
and Nicky Maxwell was one of their athletes.
He was the first NCAA Division I athlete to compete with a running blade, below knee amputee
as well.
I was helping him and everything and again, just talking to the team and everything as
a motivational speaker.
And then a couple of years after he graduated, he went and did an internship for Achilles
International in New York.
And this job opened up and he's called me and said, Joe, I think it'd be perfect for
it.
And sure enough, he wasn't wrong.
It's my passion to give back to those who are physically challenged.
Yeah.
We'll talk more about Achilles in a second.
You had mentioned the boardwalk and it just made me kind of think of maybe we can quickly
highlight what 5Ks or road races could do to make their course more accessible for athletes
with physical disabilities.
Yeah, that's a question that's really good.
Again, if it's a race that's been around, I don't think that they need to change in
my opinion, especially if it has some history to it.
It's like, maybe we should be the ones to adapt and get used to it in some way.
Is there a way for us to adapt to it?
Whether it would be a wheelchair user switching up different tires to push through a part
of the course that is tough and difficult to get through.
And again, you don't want to lose that tradition in my opinion.
Having been an able-bodied athlete to now being someone who is physically challenged,
I went and still competed on courses that were trail runs and everything else.
If I wanted to as an amputee, I got it done.
It should be the same for anybody in that situation.
If there's a way to get it done, adapt to it and get it done.
So if it's not necessarily a race director having to completely overhaul a course, what
can someone do to create a more inclusive event or be more welcoming of a diverse population?
That's a better question.
If they're going to go and come up with a new race and everything, how can they make
it fully accessible to everybody?
Yeah, make sure they're on difficult parts, not too many turns, especially for someone
in a wheelchair.
That's something you want to get your speed up, you want to keep your speed up, you want
to keep rolling.
But you could still go and have different types of races and everything, have trail
races that are fully trail races.
You can go and accomplish that in a hand cycle for instance.
Yeah, absolutely.
So Achilles as an organization has chapters all around the country, maybe all around the
world.
What is the premise of the nonprofit organization or what are the programs and services that
they offer?
Nice.
Yeah, so with Achilles, our biggest thing is we are looking to be fully inclusive for
anybody and everybody looking to go walk, run, roll.
Plus now we've started Achilles Try, which is our triathlon group, so you're involved
in swimming.
We want you guys out there, we want everybody out there.
If you think you're an athlete, if you don't think you're an athlete, we want you to come
out and move.
That's the biggest thing.
You look at our population of how many people do have a disability just here in the US.
Just like 26% of Americans have some sort of disability.
How many of those people are active?
It goes and builds into that character and everything in which you can go and feel good
about yourself to go out and accomplish things with others too.
And that community is everything as well.
We're a welcoming community for everybody and we do all different types of other social
activities as well, whether it's pizza parties or coffee and donuts, going out bowling with
the group.
Even those who are visually impaired are allowed to come out and go bowling with us.
So again, all of our events are fully inclusive for anybody and everybody that wants to be
a part of Achilles.
If someone wants to learn more about it or get involved with a local chapter, we can
put it in the show notes.
But do you know where they would go to do so?
You could go right onto Achilles International's website and feel free to post if this is going
out to mainly Massachusetts or New England and everything.
We have our Achilles International Boston Facebook page, Instagram is Achilles Boston
on Instagram.
And feel free to shoot my email in there as well, jlamar.achillesinternational.org.
Do you know what the process is like for someone that might be interested in starting a chapter
if there's not already a chapter in their environment?
If there's not a chapter right away in their environment, we do have what's called our
USA chapter.
So that's basically for those individuals that are spread out all over the place.
And what we do there is our Achilles chapter lead there goes and we'll find guides in their
area to match them up with if they're in need of guides.
And then again, once we do big events, like if they're racing in Boston, they come and
they're part of our family in Boston and we get the 80 people together and hotel dinners
and Red Sox game and everything else.
How many bibs do you guys have for Boston this year, do you know?
How many people competing?
I believe we're in the sixties.
Yeah, that's awesome.
Yeah.
A large percentage of the hand cycles are from Achilles International, if I remember correctly.
Yeah.
Mostly our freedom team riders.
So that's our vatring group.
You know, and that goes with other groups that we have.
You know, we do have two different kids opportunities with not only being a part of the chapter,
but also a kids learn kids, kids learn program.
Let's edit that one because I totally butchered it.
That's fine.
That's the point was the point was well communicated.
So I think I don't know the statistics off hand, but I think there are people believe
that most amputees are veterans, but a large percentage of amputations don't come from
combat related injuries.
That's very true.
I get asked all the time.
I was just at DW Fields Park walking Sunday and a guy stops me on a mic and everything
and he's like, are you a veteran?
And I'm like, no, he's like, you're doing a great job.
Keep it up.
I'm like, thanks.
Thanks.
You know, you know, and it's, it's one of the aggravating things though, when you go
places and they ask if you're a veteran and you say no, and they'll still say, but if
you say that you are, you get comped discounts.
I'm like, but I'm not.
That's pretty crazy.
People initiate that conversation and I know they want to say thank you to you.
If you say that, yes, I am a veteran, but then they're probably like, oh shoot, what
did I get myself into?
And they ask that question and you're like, how do I, how do I recover?
It shows me it's all right.
I'm fine.
We try to get all of our guests to give a little bit of insight into what the fitness
industry or gyms as a whole could do to be more accessible.
Do you have any advice?
Maybe if someone owns a gym or if someone is entering the field as a personal trainer
or a strength coach.
Yeah.
I go and look at equipment that's there.
Is it fully accessible?
You know, can you go bring a wheelchair up in it?
You know, what equipment can you go and have for those athletes, you know, that might need
different equipment, you know, than what's normal in a gym and everything else, you know?
And some of the easy things are like something like a crank cycle.
You know, it doesn't cost that much and everything else.
Yeah.
If an athlete misses out due to the weather and everything in their area, that's something
that can be, you know, low budget and allow people who are in wheelchairs to go right
into the gym and start cranking to get their work in.
Yeah, absolutely.
So, pieces of equipment, I think sometimes too, there's lower economic investments just
culturally among the staff and among the community and the expectation that whether you have
a disability or not, you're going to be fully immersed within the community is important
as well, which is something like that Achilles promotes.
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, Joe, thank you for sharing your story, sharing your expertise.
I'll be leveraging it more over the next couple of months as I prepare for our 5K.
So, we'll stay in touch and I'll bounce some ideas off of you.
But thankful to have you in our network and thanks for taking the time to talk today.
No, you're welcome, Brendan.
If I have one message to get across to everybody, you know, it would be to let everybody know
that sports is for everybody.
No matter what your ability, there's always a way to go and adapt to get it done.
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Until next Monday.