1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,280 All right, welcome to the AdaptX podcast where we have conversations with individuals who 2 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:08,920 are building accessible products or businesses, advocating for inclusion or excelling in adaptive 3 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:09,920 sports. 4 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:12,400 Our intention is never to speak on behalf of those with disabilities, but give them 5 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:16,400 a platform to amplify their voice and share their insights so we can make a more accessible 6 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:17,400 world. 7 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:20,560 Today we are joined by Greg Vanderbeek from the College of Engineering and Applied Science 8 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:22,000 at the University of Colorado. 9 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:24,880 Greg, thank you for joining me today. 10 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:25,880 Thank you for having me. 11 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:29,680 I'm actually really excited to be here and have the opportunity to talk about some of 12 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:30,680 the things we're doing. 13 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:36,240 I don't know, just looking at a lot of the podcasts you've had in the past, it's an 14 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:38,360 honor to be here. 15 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:41,800 You've got some really amazing athletes and individuals that you've spoken with. 16 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:42,800 Thank you. 17 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:46,760 Yeah, it's been a pretty crazy seven or eight month run since starting this. 18 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:51,040 I feel very fortunate, the conversations I've had. 19 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:55,440 I don't know exactly what the outcome was when I started it outside of sharing lived 20 00:00:55,440 --> 00:01:01,520 experiences, but now I feel like we have this huge content base that has so much wisdom 21 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:05,480 and lessons learned that we can hopefully share with a lot of people. 22 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:09,880 I was first introduced to your work a month or two ago when I read an article. 23 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:14,760 We write a bi-weekly newsletter, Insights Into Inclusion Across Different Industries, 24 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:19,800 and I was just doing a Google search and came across an article in the Gunnison Times maybe 25 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:23,240 out in Colorado. 26 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:30,640 You're using your platform, your opportunities, your resources at the University of Colorado 27 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:35,360 to design an adaptive bicycle in one of your engineering programs. 28 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:39,800 That was a project that I found to be really interesting, like a university partnering 29 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:44,880 with local organizations and actually having a tangible product that benefits people with 30 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:45,880 disabilities. 31 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:49,600 I was interested in learning about how that came about to be. 32 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:54,320 If you want to take me through the process, maybe when the concept was first introduced 33 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:58,320 to you and how you worked it into your curriculum or your courses. 34 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:00,200 Yeah, absolutely. 35 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:05,080 Taking a step back to start just talking about the program gives a little bit of insight 36 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:07,680 into why and how we were able to do this. 37 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:13,720 We're a partnership program between the University of Colorado Boulder and Western Colorado. 38 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:19,120 The reason why that's been advantageous is that we have a full engineering program, but 39 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:21,240 we have really small class sizes. 40 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:27,240 We have a state of the art facility that was just donated by an alumni, Paul Rady. 41 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:32,600 We have this amazing facility manufacturing metals, plastics, all of this. 42 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:34,520 We have these small class sizes. 43 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:41,240 What small class sizes do is they allow you to do really fun and unique projects. 44 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:44,960 When we first started this program, it was really just five years ago, we graduated our 45 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:50,600 first engineering class just last May. 46 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:54,860 A couple of years ago, we reached out to the adaptive sports center in Crested Butte, which 47 00:02:54,860 --> 00:03:00,920 Crested Butte is just 25 miles north of Gunnison where Western Colorado is located. 48 00:03:00,920 --> 00:03:02,200 They're a world class facility. 49 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:05,720 They run summer and winter programming camps. 50 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:10,280 They work with veterans and all different types of athletes with disabilities to do 51 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:12,520 snow and summer sports. 52 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:15,560 I mean, rock climbing, rafting, all these things. 53 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:20,960 We went up there and talked to them several times just saying, look, we're a project-based 54 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:21,960 group. 55 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:24,520 We're a mechanical engineering department. 56 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:28,820 One of our key differentiators is we want our students building things right away. 57 00:03:28,820 --> 00:03:31,640 We want engineers that are industry ready. 58 00:03:31,640 --> 00:03:35,680 Industry ready means that they can both see the problem, work through the problem, and 59 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:39,000 actually develop a product that is worth producing. 60 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:45,640 We asked them, do you guys have any needs where you wish something was out there, but 61 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:46,720 it's just not? 62 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:51,160 We would love to kind of collaborate with you. 63 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:55,680 One of the vice executive directors there, Chris Reed, was like, you know what would 64 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:56,680 be really great? 65 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:58,300 We have some awesome mountain bikes. 66 00:03:58,300 --> 00:04:02,440 We have some awesome road bikes, but so many of the athletes that come here, they don't 67 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:07,320 want to go out on the road, and they're not quite physically ready to do some of the trails 68 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:08,320 that we have here. 69 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:11,240 We would love to have a gravel-specific bike. 70 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:16,960 Specifically, they wanted something that was very light and not pedal assist so that it 71 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:21,440 really kind of empowered the athlete of, look, this is an efficient pedaling bike. 72 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:25,140 You can really get out there and get into some adventure. 73 00:04:25,140 --> 00:04:28,440 We started down the road of how do we design this? 74 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:30,480 At first, it felt really overwhelming. 75 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:37,240 I just started reaching out to groups and thinking, who else could we partner with? 76 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:43,440 Started talking to some CU alumni and got in contact with the folks at SRAM. 77 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:45,640 SRAM said, this sounds like a great idea. 78 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:47,080 We would love to support you. 79 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:51,480 SRAM started donating some kits and groupos to us. 80 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:57,600 Then one of the key differentiators is, I'm sure some people are familiar with the Athertons. 81 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:00,600 They're a world famous downhill family. 82 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:03,280 Their family has won many, many World Cups. 83 00:05:03,280 --> 00:05:10,320 They started a company that started printing titanium lugs and then gluing up carbon fiber 84 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:11,320 into them. 85 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:19,840 What that does is it allows you to make truly custom and adaptable as far as geometry bikes, 86 00:05:19,840 --> 00:05:21,960 but you don't have to have these really expensive molds. 87 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:23,640 You can do small runs. 88 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:28,360 We started looking into it and it turns out 3D Systems, I had a friend that was working 89 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:30,680 there, another CU graduate. 90 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:34,840 I reached out to 3D Systems and I was like, hey, I got a crazy idea. 91 00:05:34,840 --> 00:05:37,040 Would you be interested in supporting something like this? 92 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:40,840 3D Systems is one of the top additive companies out there. 93 00:05:40,840 --> 00:05:44,240 They serve aerospace and biomedical. 94 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:45,800 They're in automotive. 95 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:46,960 They're all over. 96 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:50,760 Their founder created the first 3D printer. 97 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:53,440 They're an institution. 98 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:56,160 Their answer was, yeah, this sounds really cool. 99 00:05:56,160 --> 00:06:01,240 That really energized me of like, wow, SRAM and 3D Systems and these other groups are 100 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:03,120 really interested in it. 101 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:04,320 Let's see what we can do. 102 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:07,200 We looked at our curriculum and said, how could we make this? 103 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:09,840 Because we're not going to be able to do this in a semester. 104 00:06:09,840 --> 00:06:13,960 Most classes are started and finished in a semester. 105 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:18,600 We created a two-course sequence where the first semester called component design, they 106 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:19,600 design the models. 107 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:21,560 They do FEA analysis. 108 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:26,000 That would be finite element analysis where you put stresses and strains onto it. 109 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:28,440 You see where failure points could be. 110 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:32,320 And then the next class in the series is manufacturing processes. 111 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:34,720 So we're in that class right now. 112 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:38,720 And so they take the bike they design and then they manufacture it. 113 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:41,080 And we then iterate again. 114 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:42,560 And it's been a standing project. 115 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:43,840 We're in year two. 116 00:06:43,840 --> 00:06:48,320 The first year, we did a proof of concept, gen one, to make sure we could do it. 117 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:51,120 And now we've added some bells and whistles to it. 118 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:55,360 And we're actually designing for a specific athlete and then designing a general use bike 119 00:06:55,360 --> 00:07:00,800 that we hope to donate a handful to the adaptive sports center in Crested Butte. 120 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:01,980 Yeah. 121 00:07:01,980 --> 00:07:04,400 So maybe let's talk through the process. 122 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:07,120 So what comes first? 123 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:13,240 The problem, the solution, the specific individual? 124 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:18,520 Are you designing from the get-go with a specific person in mind or do you have some frameworks 125 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:21,360 that begin the process? 126 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:22,360 Great question. 127 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:28,080 And the typical engineering answer that is fun and frustrating is it depends. 128 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:33,960 So if you have an individual, and so this year we are going two directions with our 129 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:34,960 design. 130 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:39,400 We have a high performance bike that we're designing for a high fives athlete, high fives 131 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:46,240 athlete number 104, Justin Pines, who is going to race this bike this summer in gravel specific 132 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:47,240 rides. 133 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:48,720 So we had him come out to our campus. 134 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,800 He's actually a product developer and he lives in the front range. 135 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:55,760 And so he's very familiar with this process and he had some great conversations with students 136 00:07:55,760 --> 00:08:01,280 about like you have to get user buy-in and really challenge the students with a lot of 137 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:06,520 these concepts and a lot of these things you wouldn't think of as an able-bodied individual. 138 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:10,760 You just don't think about certain things when you're designing. 139 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:15,160 And that's one of the reasons why I love this project is it really kind of shakes up some 140 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:20,000 of your traditional engineering where you just see a cut and dry linear approach to 141 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:21,000 a problem. 142 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:28,160 But no, there's a lot of specific use needs that are going to change your problem statement 143 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:30,800 even as you're moving along. 144 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:32,760 So we're designing two bikes this year. 145 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:35,800 One is a high performance bike specifically for Justin. 146 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:39,120 And then we have another team that actually decided on their own that they wanted to break 147 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:42,600 from the first group and rather than just design a high performance bike, they wanted 148 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:45,340 to design one that was more accessible. 149 00:08:45,340 --> 00:08:50,200 And what I mean by that is the high performance bike, some people that are familiar with some 150 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:56,640 of these adaptive bikes, the forward facing bikes don't have as much adjustability. 151 00:08:56,640 --> 00:09:02,080 And they're really built for a specific individual because they're not very accommodating. 152 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:05,960 If you take somebody that's a couple inches taller, they wouldn't be able to fit in a 153 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:10,360 bike that was made for somebody just a few inches smaller. 154 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:13,080 There's not a lot of flexibility in those designs. 155 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:19,560 Whereas the recumbent bikes can accommodate a lot more end users. 156 00:09:19,560 --> 00:09:23,900 So a larger user base, there's more flexibility in that. 157 00:09:23,900 --> 00:09:29,160 And so a team of students broke off from the first team and said, we want to rethink this 158 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:35,900 all together and stay with the same approach of using titanium 3D printed lugs with carbon 159 00:09:35,900 --> 00:09:40,400 fiber because in this design, we think light is right. 160 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:47,280 Because part of the accessibility issues that our user base has talked about as one athlete 161 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:50,800 looked at me and goes, have you ever tried getting one of these bikes into a car? 162 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:53,360 Yeah, these things weigh 60 pounds. 163 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:54,360 You try to lift that up. 164 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:55,880 He's like, I'm in a wheelchair. 165 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:56,880 And I'm like, wow. 166 00:09:56,880 --> 00:10:02,720 And if you ever Google videos of how people get these bikes into their station wagons, 167 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:06,280 their vans, or their trucks, it's incredibly creative and inspiring. 168 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:09,440 But it's also like, wow, there's got to be a solution. 169 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:15,120 So we're trying to hit a 30 pound mark, which would allow somebody to lift up the front 170 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:20,000 and stick it in there, go around to the rear, have wheel locks on it so that it stays in 171 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:23,000 position, and then they can lift up the rear and put it in. 172 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:26,200 The feedback we kept getting from athletes is, I don't want to have to ask my buddy 173 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:27,600 to load my bike. 174 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:30,800 And then I don't want to get to the trailhead and say, hey, is there anybody here that can 175 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:32,480 help me get this thing down? 176 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:33,480 So that independence. 177 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:39,240 And so some of those things are never thought of in the early stages, young engineers working 178 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:40,240 on these problems. 179 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:44,080 So that's been a really fun approach is these things have kind of been flushed out. 180 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:49,040 The students are like, OK, yeah, now I see why I'm doing that. 181 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:50,840 OK, that changes things. 182 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:57,680 Yeah, I like because when you first said accessible for that second group, my thought process 183 00:10:57,680 --> 00:11:03,440 was socioeconomically, like how expensive it would be to replicate these bikes because 184 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:08,760 when they're highly customizable and when they're built with these ultra lightweight 185 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:11,480 carbon fiber materials, they're going to be more expensive. 186 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:12,480 Right. 187 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:17,560 I hadn't even thought about the weight requirement, but it's also probably ease of use to gravel 188 00:11:17,560 --> 00:11:20,200 bikes going up different terrains, different elevations. 189 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:22,920 You probably want a lighter bike in that regard as well. 190 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:28,600 But what's the process of making something scalable from an engineering standpoint? 191 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:32,160 Yeah, the you really hit it on the head. 192 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:35,540 The titanium 3D printing is amazing. 193 00:11:35,540 --> 00:11:37,440 It's exciting from a student standpoint. 194 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:41,040 We love teaching that type of additive manufacturing. 195 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:47,920 But as we design these bikes, we're in year two, so we're still not approaching it from 196 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:50,000 a value engineering standpoint. 197 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:54,360 We're still in the how are we pulling this off functionally? 198 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:55,360 How is this working? 199 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:58,880 And you can really capitalize on additive manufacturing. 200 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:01,640 If you can draw it, it can be printed. 201 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:05,440 There's obviously some limitations there, but it's pretty fantastic. 202 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:13,520 So this bike that I was speaking of that is easier for ingress and egress, but still remaining 203 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:14,720 incredibly light. 204 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:19,120 The next step for this one is to do some value engineering on it. 205 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:22,360 We've set a goal, and I don't know if it's obtainable, but we've set a lot of goals and 206 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:23,360 we shoot for them. 207 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:29,120 That's just part of what we do is try to manufacture and create a bike that would be this light. 208 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:32,440 So right around that 30 pound mark, but under $5,000. 209 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:36,800 I think if that could be done and if that could get out into the market. 210 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:41,360 And so to do that, we're talking welded aluminum lugs. 211 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:47,680 We're talking about slip fits with the carbon fiber and just a different process than titanium 212 00:12:47,680 --> 00:12:48,680 printing. 213 00:12:48,680 --> 00:12:54,560 So I see as we continue to grow, we just continue to push the envelope in different arenas. 214 00:12:54,560 --> 00:12:58,760 I think we will always continue to try to push the performance envelope. 215 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:02,160 I think some students are really excited about that, but I think we also need to push the 216 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:04,160 accessibility envelope. 217 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:06,740 And that is a broader stroke. 218 00:13:06,740 --> 00:13:12,000 That is ingress, egress, that is size. 219 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:15,880 If you think about somebody trying, if they're in the city and they want to get this thing 220 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:22,000 out and they got to go down an elevator, how are they taking this thing through a standard 221 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:23,000 door? 222 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:27,680 Some of these bikes, you can't fit through a standard door without some pretty impressive 223 00:13:27,680 --> 00:13:28,680 canoodling. 224 00:13:28,680 --> 00:13:32,200 It's like moving a full-size couch into a small house. 225 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:33,800 It's like, how do we do this? 226 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:40,880 And so we've had conversations of could we unpin two of the non-drive wheels so that 227 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:42,040 it becomes skinnier? 228 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:46,880 Is there a way to attach it to the back of a wheelchair so that you could fit into an 229 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:48,560 elevator with it? 230 00:13:48,560 --> 00:13:53,740 So I don't see any end to the design challenges with this. 231 00:13:53,740 --> 00:13:58,640 And I think that anyone who's been in human-centered design is probably shaking their head like, 232 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:05,920 as soon as you bring use cases and human needs into this, the design landscape just continues 233 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:07,080 to get bigger and bigger. 234 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:11,800 And from a teaching standpoint, that just gets me more and more excited because we're 235 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:14,080 never going to say, yep, we did it. 236 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:15,740 All right, what's the next project? 237 00:14:15,740 --> 00:14:19,640 I think this can continue to evolve for years to come. 238 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:25,960 It's a related but different topic, but I think it might have been back at the Chicago 239 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:27,900 Marathon. 240 00:14:27,900 --> 00:14:33,160 The push rim wheelchair racing technology is really taking off. 241 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:39,640 And there was a little bit of criticism in terms of the fastest in the world have sponsorships 242 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:45,840 and access to these push rim wheelchairs that cost tens of thousands of dollars. 243 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:52,200 And the amateurs getting into the sport have no possibility of competing with them because 244 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:56,760 this technology has such a large discrepancy between the accessible price point and the 245 00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:57,840 elite price point. 246 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:03,560 So it's just making even a wider gap between the top tier and the lower tier and a technology 247 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:06,440 issue that's not really seen in able-bodied sports. 248 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:14,660 So it's an interesting discussion on at what point is technological advancement making 249 00:15:14,660 --> 00:15:20,500 too big of a difference or too big of a discrepancy, at least in the competition space. 250 00:15:20,500 --> 00:15:26,680 Maybe not in the just recreational adaptive sports space, but something that came to mind. 251 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:27,680 Absolutely. 252 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:36,320 And I think some of the component groups early on with my discussions with SRAM, but they've 253 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:44,600 been incredibly supportive and they're seeing this as almost through a new lens of like, 254 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:47,880 wait a minute, how are these companies using our products? 255 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:53,080 Because if you look at it, they're flipping derailers, they're taking parts that are meant 256 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:56,920 for two-wheel bikes and they're making them work on their three-wheel bikes. 257 00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:01,920 And so I wouldn't be surprised if there's some discussions, hopefully, that shake out 258 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:10,720 from some of these partnerships where SRAM, the global leader in bike parts, doesn't say 259 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:13,440 something like, why don't we help a little bit? 260 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:16,640 They're a very inclusive company. 261 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:20,960 They're somebody that is interested in getting more individuals out on bikes. 262 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:26,880 And so hopefully, part of having these conversations and doing projects like this is to get people 263 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:30,920 thinking like, yeah, maybe we can do a little bit more. 264 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:37,120 And so I hope that one of the things that comes out from this is that more companies 265 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:41,400 are starting to get interested in maybe dabbling and helping because that would bring some 266 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:42,640 of the costs down. 267 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:43,640 Yeah. 268 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:45,720 Not only companies, but individuals as well. 269 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:50,640 I guess there was this quote from Chris Reed, the program director at ASC in Crested Butte 270 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:54,920 that really resonated with me when he was talking about designing the adaptive cycle. 271 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:59,160 And he talked about how it has a ripple effect and supports a much bigger idea that the students 272 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:03,160 will begin their engineering and design careers with accessibility, access, and equality at 273 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:04,400 the forefront of their minds. 274 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:09,980 And that's the same way that when I guess lecture at a university or when a university student 275 00:17:09,980 --> 00:17:14,320 takes the course that we teach on inclusive fitness, it's like, maybe they're not going 276 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:17,960 to be able to implement it at the university setting, but I feel confident knowing that 277 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:22,520 they're going to go out into their careers with a different mindset and approach to inclusion. 278 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:30,240 So I was wondering if you've noticed a noticeable shift in your students' way of thinking about 279 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:33,920 accessibility or inclusion. 280 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:39,040 To a degree, I think there's been a full shift in just how they approach design altogether 281 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:44,200 because of how broad this problem statement is. 282 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:51,000 And I've kind of said from the beginning, I would be surprised if we truly create something 283 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:54,920 that is revolutionary in this market. 284 00:17:54,920 --> 00:18:03,000 My bigger interest is training a new generation of engineers that are interested in pursuing 285 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:04,000 products like these. 286 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:09,100 And they're the ones that are going to go out and make a huge difference in this market. 287 00:18:09,100 --> 00:18:15,100 And I've had students come up to me and say, so what kind of jobs are in this area? 288 00:18:15,100 --> 00:18:16,200 And I'm interested in this. 289 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:20,480 And one of our students went and interned at the adaptive support center in Crested 290 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:21,640 Butte over the summer. 291 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:26,440 And I had a conversation actually this morning with one of our awesome students, Gee. 292 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:29,880 She was like, I would be really interested in prosthetics. 293 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:31,120 How do I pursue that? 294 00:18:31,120 --> 00:18:37,480 So having some of those conversations now is exciting for me because it's great. 295 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:43,240 Not that I don't want students talking about going into automotive or some of these manufacturing. 296 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:46,360 I'm not worried about dipping from that pool at all. 297 00:18:46,360 --> 00:18:51,120 I'm excited to hear that some of these students are like, hey, this is a cool project. 298 00:18:51,120 --> 00:18:53,640 How do I do this at a bigger scale? 299 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:55,200 What companies are out there? 300 00:18:55,200 --> 00:19:00,580 And I think the adaptive market in general, it's getting better. 301 00:19:00,580 --> 00:19:05,280 But I do still think it's an underserved market as far as available products. 302 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:13,800 And I understand the reasons why, the challenges of designing in this area, market, share, 303 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:14,800 and all that kind of stuff. 304 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:20,000 But I do think a change is happening right now where we're seeing just better products 305 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:21,000 out there. 306 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:22,000 We're seeing more technology. 307 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:27,440 We're seeing a lot of really great engineers that maybe would have gone into a different 308 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:30,280 field, but they got excited to get into this field. 309 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:38,040 And so that's an area that I think that a university can make a difference by creating 310 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:41,800 projects like this that you get a couple of really excited students. 311 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,400 They can make a really big difference in their careers. 312 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:45,400 Yeah. 313 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:49,720 We talk about how universal design and accessible design benefits all populations. 314 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:57,680 So maybe there ends up being a trend towards just products being designed for all individuals, 315 00:19:57,680 --> 00:19:59,440 regardless of ability or not. 316 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:04,280 And on that topic that you just mentioned, how can universities more effectively collaborate 317 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:07,120 with organizations? 318 00:20:07,120 --> 00:20:10,220 I think it just starts with reaching out. 319 00:20:10,220 --> 00:20:15,760 I think sometimes this is normal, but I think sometimes we get stuck in our ways of just 320 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:18,200 like, oh, this is how I teach this class. 321 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:22,440 And it's harder to be creative and to come up with unique ideas. 322 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:32,520 But so far in my short experience with reaching out to adaptive groups, adaptive companies, 323 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:38,600 they've welcomed the collaboration with Open Arms. 324 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:46,120 One of our professors, Mel, she reached out and had a contact with Unlimitless. 325 00:20:46,120 --> 00:20:48,240 Our students designed a new button for them. 326 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:53,560 And our two patents, I think, are being shaken out from that. 327 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:57,400 And those students, that made such a huge difference for them. 328 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:01,280 And it all started with a phone call of just like, hey, I got an idea. 329 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:02,900 I think you had a cool product. 330 00:21:02,900 --> 00:21:03,900 Would you have any interest? 331 00:21:03,900 --> 00:21:08,520 And that's where I think a university, that's where I think our strength is. 332 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:10,480 We can offer things. 333 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:11,560 We're a nonprofit. 334 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:18,120 We don't have to adhere to any of the traditional things that businesses would have to do. 335 00:21:18,120 --> 00:21:24,760 Like, our outcomes are just exciting students hitting learning objectives, making sure that 336 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:29,320 we're meeting our goals for what the students need to learn. 337 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:36,400 And so we have a really big freedom to reach out, be creative. 338 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:40,720 And if a project doesn't do amazing, oh, well. 339 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:41,880 That doesn't mean you didn't learn from it. 340 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:45,600 That doesn't mean the students didn't get a lot out of it. 341 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:50,200 Sometimes you get more out of failure than you do from success. 342 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:54,240 So I think it just starts with start just reaching out. 343 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:55,720 And I think it can be twofold. 344 00:21:55,720 --> 00:22:02,880 I think companies could reach out to universities and say, hey, we would be interested in doing 345 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:08,580 a project because oftentimes it doesn't take much from the financial end. 346 00:22:08,580 --> 00:22:11,440 It's more of just the collaboration. 347 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:17,000 An individual from that company kind of championing the cause, sitting down, talking with students, 348 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:19,800 meeting with them regularly and spending that time. 349 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:26,360 And that interface, I think, has so much value in it for students to be talking to professionals, 350 00:22:26,360 --> 00:22:31,400 individuals that are truly trying to launch products and or they're part of an organization 351 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:35,800 and they're trying to serve a need within their organization. 352 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:41,400 I think tackling those real problems are traditionally better learning outcomes than just say, say, 353 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:42,680 some book problems. 354 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:43,680 Yeah. 355 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:44,960 Mutually beneficial for both. 356 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:51,760 And it's a university is a safe setting to learn and fail in as opposed to career. 357 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:56,200 It's a good place to develop or to determine what works and what doesn't. 358 00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:57,600 Absolutely. 359 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:04,540 Maybe looking at the future of 3D printing and accessibility, do you see what direction 360 00:23:04,540 --> 00:23:10,960 it might kind of benefit assistive tech, prosthesis, etc.? 361 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:11,960 Yeah. 362 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:17,760 So 3D printing has already made a huge impact. 363 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:23,600 The metal 3D printing is pretty phenomenal because that's a final product. 364 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:29,120 Like for example, the titanium that we're printing on, we've been doing a lot of generative 365 00:23:29,120 --> 00:23:35,480 design where you remove mass from areas that have no stress and you add mass to areas that 366 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:36,480 have stress. 367 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:41,120 You model it to essentially make the strongest lightest component. 368 00:23:41,120 --> 00:23:45,120 And we have these lugs that feel so light. 369 00:23:45,120 --> 00:23:49,040 And yet just the other day we were putting it in a test apparatus and we couldn't even 370 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:51,560 break it at 1300 pounds of force. 371 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:55,380 And we only needed 500 for our safety factor. 372 00:23:55,380 --> 00:23:57,600 So from a metal standpoint, things are ready to go. 373 00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:02,720 But from a plastic standpoint, a lot of the plastics are getting better. 374 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:07,880 But the other area that they're really making a difference is you can rapidly make molds. 375 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:14,920 And so the 3D printing might not be what you actually have in your final product, but it 376 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:21,040 could create the mold, for example, for like a vacuum thermal formed kydex, like a type 377 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:22,160 of plastic. 378 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:28,040 So you could scan, say like an individual's leg, let's say you're making a prosthetic, 379 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:33,800 you could scan that individual's leg and then bring it over into the model, reverse it and 380 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:36,760 print and then that's your mold. 381 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:43,880 And then you could use what would be a long term plastic like a thermal set or a thermal 382 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:47,680 form plastic and then wrap that around it. 383 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:54,120 So the 3D printing has really helped from a rapid prototyping standpoint to see if something 384 00:24:54,120 --> 00:24:58,320 fits, if it would work. 385 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:02,360 And traditionally, those wouldn't take a lot of force, a lot of weight. 386 00:25:02,360 --> 00:25:07,920 But you can use a lot of these things to make molds and stuff like that for carbon fiber. 387 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:13,620 We, like for a lot of our molds, we're doing our carbon fiber knee trays and seats and 388 00:25:13,620 --> 00:25:15,000 chest plates and stuff. 389 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:21,000 We 3D print those and then we vacuum thermal form around them or we do, you know, wet carbon 390 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:22,440 layups around them. 391 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,040 And so that's game changer right there. 392 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:29,520 Back in the day, you used to have to like route it out of wood or, you know, make them 393 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:31,280 almost by hand. 394 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:36,200 Nowadays, we can scan things and put them into a model and make molds. 395 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:41,120 So it's really helped make things faster. 396 00:25:41,120 --> 00:25:45,100 What's the safety factor that you referenced in that description? 397 00:25:45,100 --> 00:25:50,620 So safety factor is if you have a factor of safety of one, that means your anticipated 398 00:25:50,620 --> 00:25:53,840 force and the strength of your material are equal. 399 00:25:53,840 --> 00:26:02,560 So if, say, a carbon fiber tube would fail at 500 pounds and you expect to see 500 pounds 400 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:06,000 during the use of that product, that'd be a factor of safety of one. 401 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:12,480 It's much more common to have a factor of safety of three, four, five and even greater. 402 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:20,240 The tricky part with like a bike is you do have to account for impact and things like 403 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:21,240 that. 404 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:25,840 So a user just riding down the road isn't going to put a tremendous amount of force 405 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:27,920 into the members of the bike. 406 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:30,000 But what if you hit a rock? 407 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,360 You came around a corner fast and all of a sudden there was a baby head there and you 408 00:26:33,360 --> 00:26:36,200 just hit that rock. 409 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,280 That's a much larger impact. 410 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:45,040 So we model these forces into our system. 411 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:49,640 But you know, the common term for modeling is, you know, garbage in, garbage out. 412 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:53,000 Your model is only as good as your understanding of the system. 413 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:54,760 And the system is very complicated. 414 00:26:54,760 --> 00:27:01,920 So the way we accompany this is we model it, but then we take physically the lugs, the 415 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:07,040 prototypes, and we put them into a testing device that can put, you know, 20,000 pounds 416 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:08,040 of force into it. 417 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:15,760 So we take and test all of our lugs to failure so that we can back it out and proof it to 418 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:16,760 the model. 419 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:20,400 So that's any time you have humans, you know, we have an individual. 420 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:22,960 Justin's riding this bike and he's going to ride it fast. 421 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,360 So we want to make sure it's safe for him. 422 00:27:25,360 --> 00:27:28,560 We want to make it as light as possible, but there is a balance, right? 423 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,080 We want it to be light and safe. 424 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:35,440 So we do a lot of testing on the bike and we're going to have a full prototype in about 425 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:36,440 a month. 426 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:40,760 And then Justin will come back out here, ride it, give a lot of feedback to the students. 427 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:43,200 It can feel a little brutal at times, right? 428 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:47,560 And you spent months designing something and somebody's like, you need to move this. 429 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:48,560 This is uncomfortable. 430 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,840 I got a pinch point here, but that's the real stuff. 431 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:53,840 Like engineers need to hear that. 432 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:57,120 We spend too much time in our CAD models and doing calculations. 433 00:27:57,120 --> 00:27:58,520 That's our safe zone, right? 434 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:02,200 You talk to the client and they start giving you real feedback. 435 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:03,960 And Justin's in product development. 436 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:08,400 So he's really good at like giving pinpoint feedback back to the students. 437 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:12,560 And so it's fun to have that dynamic there. 438 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:18,440 That's just a good insight into how the lived experience and collaborating with the end 439 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:22,240 user is essential really for anything, not just engineering. 440 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:23,240 Yeah, absolutely. 441 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:28,400 I mean, you don't want to be in an echo chamber and be like, oh yeah, good idea. 442 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:29,400 Yep. 443 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:30,400 Good idea. 444 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:31,400 Great. 445 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:32,400 And then move on. 446 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:33,400 You need somebody else to chime in. 447 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,840 What were the biggest barriers to that first prototype? 448 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:42,640 Do you remember like specific challenges or any kind of memorable moments when you guys 449 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:44,000 had like aha moments? 450 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:45,000 Yeah, absolutely. 451 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,920 The aha moment was 3D systems joining. 452 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:56,800 We tried to make our very first prototype out of all machined aluminum lugs and the 453 00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:04,720 machine time, the complexity of trying to machine things that just those kind of shapes 454 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:06,160 was incredibly challenging. 455 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,480 And we never got out of CAD space really. 456 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,760 We made a few prototypes, but we never got out of CAD space. 457 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:15,840 So then we went back to the drawing board and when we did a little more research and 458 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:22,880 then ended up talking with 3D systems, that was a game changer because traditional subtractive 459 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:28,360 manufacturing, which is what machining would be, is very limited because you start with 460 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:32,680 a large block and you're removing material to get to something smaller. 461 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:34,080 Additive is actually the opposite. 462 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:40,480 The less you have, the less it costs because it's laser sintering that happens. 463 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:45,600 You have lasers that will hit the titanium, which is a powder in a vacuum chamber. 464 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:50,200 You only pay for the amount of material that you melt together. 465 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:51,440 So it's actually the opposite. 466 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:56,880 So as we continue to make these things lighter and more these lugs lighter in area, the actual 467 00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,820 cost goes down rather than up. 468 00:29:59,820 --> 00:30:04,120 From a machining standpoint, the more you remove, the more complex and expensive it 469 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:05,120 gets. 470 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,840 So that was a huge aha moment. 471 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:13,960 Putting that first bike together, even though that very first prototype, I was really proud 472 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:14,960 of the students. 473 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:18,480 We had some students that just put everything they had into it. 474 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:20,720 We ignored some ergonomics. 475 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:26,040 We knew that we couldn't solve every problem in the very first generation of the build. 476 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:32,720 So we really just focused on strength, handling, and overall, how did the bike perform when 477 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:36,800 you were in it? 478 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:41,940 We had an expo, our design expo, where we showcase a lot of our work. 479 00:30:41,940 --> 00:30:47,080 We finished the bike two days before the expo and we showcased it to our community. 480 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:51,240 The adaptive sports center came down and we had Chris Reed here talking about it. 481 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:57,680 It was just such a big pride moment for myself and the students where it's just like, yeah, 482 00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:03,800 this isn't the final bike, but this is absolutely a bike that's worth talking about and it's 483 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:07,600 a bike that's worth doing iterations to continue to make better. 484 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,560 I mean, we're in it for the long haul. 485 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:15,740 Like I said earlier, I don't think there's any end in sight and changes for this. 486 00:31:15,740 --> 00:31:19,680 So that very first time, you looked at it and you're like, wait a minute, that's a 487 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:23,120 bike and you get on it and you ride it and you're like, that's actually, that handles 488 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:24,120 really well. 489 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:28,640 Like all the things that you tried to calculate in the model, like actually were happening. 490 00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:31,120 And so you're just like, oh, great. 491 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:34,260 And so that was a huge moment for us. 492 00:31:34,260 --> 00:31:38,880 And now we're back to the drawing board and just trying to make it better. 493 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:46,600 With no end in sight, what motivates you or what makes you passionate about these projects? 494 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,380 What aspect is most rewarding to you? 495 00:31:49,380 --> 00:31:51,720 For me, it's going to be donating bikes. 496 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,560 So we've acquired funding. 497 00:31:54,560 --> 00:32:01,200 We're going to have three to four students working for the entire summer, improving and 498 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:02,900 then manufacturing these bikes. 499 00:32:02,900 --> 00:32:06,760 And then through the Adaptive Sports Center, we're going to donate these bikes to families 500 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:08,880 that come out to Colorado. 501 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:12,320 So one of the really cool things that the Adaptive Sports Center in Colorado does is 502 00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:20,160 they bring a lot of individuals out here and they show them everything from this is how 503 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:21,720 you'd prepare a meal. 504 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:26,120 These are many, oftentimes they're the newly injured individuals. 505 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:30,480 And it's like, hey, things might not be the same, but that doesn't mean it isn't awesome. 506 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:32,240 Why don't we show you all these avenues? 507 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,900 And so they have fully accessible kitchens. 508 00:32:35,900 --> 00:32:42,300 They bring in cooks to talk about, hey, everything from mental health to physical health, these 509 00:32:42,300 --> 00:32:46,160 are all avenues and they have a big social aspect of it. 510 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:51,120 And so they pair people up to start making friends and sharing stories. 511 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,480 And so something that really excites me is that a lot of these people come out here and 512 00:32:54,480 --> 00:33:00,600 they get exposure to something like, hey, come ride these awesome gravel roads and trails, 513 00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:01,720 go have this experience. 514 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:07,480 And then they may go home and then they're like, wow, mom, dad, or husband or wife, I 515 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:08,480 want to buy one of these. 516 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:12,340 And the sticker shock hits of seeing what these would cost. 517 00:33:12,340 --> 00:33:17,240 And so our goal is to try to manufacture somewhere between five and 10 of these bikes and donate 518 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:18,240 them this summer. 519 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,580 And I know that's not a lot, that's not going to make a huge difference, but for those individual 520 00:33:21,580 --> 00:33:23,680 families, I think it will make a difference. 521 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:25,560 And that's ideally just the beginning. 522 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:31,400 I think there is an opportunity to collaborate with other groups and organizations and to 523 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:36,680 utilize the university platform, which is we have students, we have students that are 524 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:40,720 eager to learn, eager to learn manufacturing techniques. 525 00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:45,840 As they're building knee trays and chest plates, they're learning about how to do composite 526 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:46,840 layups. 527 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:50,800 They could be going into the automotive industry or aerospace where they're going to be doing 528 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:52,480 this professionally in other settings. 529 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:58,120 And so to be able to have that as an undergrad in your portfolio, that yeah, these are things 530 00:33:58,120 --> 00:33:59,120 I've already done. 531 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:00,560 I think that can be really special. 532 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:04,920 So the thing that motivates me the most is I love building. 533 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:08,880 I love seeing the product in the end, but seeing the product finished in the end and 534 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:18,320 somebody using it, that to me, I feel most fulfilled and I feel like I'm doing my part 535 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:23,160 being a professor, being in this opportunity that I have. 536 00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:26,960 I think that's one of the things that excites me the most. 537 00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:27,960 Yeah. 538 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:33,680 I mean, five to 10 bikes is not something to shake your head at. 539 00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:38,200 That certainly is going to impact a lot of people, especially if you extrapolate it over 540 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:43,480 the course of a five or 10 year career, however long the project sustained for. 541 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:49,520 But as you were talking about that, I was wondering if you could share the work that 542 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:55,120 you were doing with other engineering departments that could do very similar things for organizations 543 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:56,520 around the country. 544 00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:57,520 Yeah. 545 00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:05,480 So we actually just had CU Boulder's biomedical group out here and we are going to be launching 546 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:07,880 a biomedical degree. 547 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:13,760 And so I think that brings out a lot of opportunity to focus on biomechanics, potentially prosthetics 548 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:15,480 and things like that. 549 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:21,560 As far as collaborating with other universities and just other organizations in general, I 550 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:25,400 think we're really in our infancy. 551 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:29,920 I think as we continue to get this message out, we're going to continue to talk to 552 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:33,480 more groups and we're going to find more collaborations. 553 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:40,560 I think working with some other bike companies would be really exciting and saying to them, 554 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:43,640 like, hey, you're a for-profit. 555 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:44,640 I get that. 556 00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:46,700 You're pushing this envelope. 557 00:35:46,700 --> 00:35:48,160 What areas could we help? 558 00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:53,640 Do you have a bike you would love us to maybe have students redesign or a product or is 559 00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:54,640 there a process? 560 00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:55,640 Right. 561 00:35:55,640 --> 00:36:00,400 Some of the things we do are about, it's called lean manufacturing. 562 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:03,640 So how do you make manufacturing ultra-efficient? 563 00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:08,920 Small changes throughout the design and manufacturing process, all these small changes add up to 564 00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:16,120 big gains as far as better use of material, better use of time, quicker turnaround. 565 00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:19,960 And so that's actually a class that our mechanical engineers take. 566 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:26,600 And so we could even apply some of that lean ideology to other companies and say, let's 567 00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:31,120 do a case study where we completely analyze your manufacturing process. 568 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:36,960 A lot of the bike manufacturers out there, especially in the adaptive space, they're 569 00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:40,820 just folks that were like, hey, there wasn't a product out there. 570 00:36:40,820 --> 00:36:46,240 So I started welding and I started making these bikes and I'm good at it. 571 00:36:46,240 --> 00:36:51,320 And so maybe we could learn from each other where they show us some things and then maybe 572 00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:53,040 we help with some of their processes. 573 00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:58,760 So as far as collaboration, I think we're at our infancy and there's a lot of groups 574 00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:04,440 in Colorado that are in close proximity to us, especially with the front range only being 575 00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:06,320 four hours away. 576 00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:09,840 That I think we're going to over the next couple of years start forming some really 577 00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:11,760 good relationships. 578 00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:14,520 We've already talked with Craig Hospital, for example. 579 00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,720 They have an amazing program. 580 00:37:17,720 --> 00:37:22,600 And so I think the opportunities are pretty vast. 581 00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:30,640 I think it's on us to slowly grow into this space and see how we can continue to form 582 00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:34,840 these bridges and collaborate a little bit more. 583 00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:40,600 What aspects of these designs are patent protected? 584 00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:48,240 I had a conversation with a lawyer about this and I ended up at the idea of they're not 585 00:37:48,240 --> 00:37:50,360 and they shouldn't be. 586 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:55,760 If we come up with something that's really, really unique and cool and it just gets out 587 00:37:55,760 --> 00:38:01,040 there to this market, I think that's a win. 588 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:04,320 I've had people ask me, are you going to start a company with this? 589 00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:05,320 What's your goal? 590 00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:06,320 And it's like, no. 591 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:08,280 My goal is to just keep doing what I'm doing. 592 00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:10,000 I've started a company in the past. 593 00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:13,720 I've worked and done those things and I love teaching. 594 00:38:13,720 --> 00:38:17,800 I just want to continue to do exactly what I'm doing. 595 00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:20,120 So patents are an interesting thing. 596 00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:23,320 In some ways they protect you and in some ways they don't. 597 00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:32,640 Our mission isn't in any way to try to protect or hold close to the vest any of our designs. 598 00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:35,200 Our idea is actually the exact opposite. 599 00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:38,000 And if somebody else is like, that's pretty cool. 600 00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:42,240 I want to start a company and they do and they get more of these bikes out there. 601 00:38:42,240 --> 00:38:47,920 I see that as a win, not a loss, for example. 602 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:56,360 Almost flipping that though, I would wonder if someone took your design, patented it themselves 603 00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:59,000 and then didn't want you to create it. 604 00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:00,720 They wanted to monopolize it. 605 00:39:00,720 --> 00:39:06,920 It's almost like you file a patent to protect someone else from filing a patent and then 606 00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:08,520 discontinuing your project. 607 00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:13,520 So it's not something I have any knowledge on, but that was just the two sides of the 608 00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:16,640 coin I was thinking of as we were talking through it. 609 00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:20,720 I certainly think that is a potentially valid point. 610 00:39:20,720 --> 00:39:27,600 But so far my experience in this market is that it's a pretty supportive market. 611 00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:32,200 And I just think based off of the size of the market share, you're not going to have 612 00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:36,920 a group come in and say to themselves like, oh, we're going to carve ourselves out a 613 00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:37,920 corner here. 614 00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:41,160 This isn't as big as e-commerce or anything like that. 615 00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:43,760 I think it's a pretty tight knit community. 616 00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:49,400 And so, so far what I've experienced in it is that people just want to continue to help 617 00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:50,400 people. 618 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:56,720 It's not quite the same competitive nature that you see in some other for-profit fields. 619 00:39:56,720 --> 00:40:03,080 What's the hierarchy of function, aesthetics, affordability? 620 00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:07,040 What would you rank as the most important aspect of the design process? 621 00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:11,720 So again, that engineering answer of it depends. 622 00:40:11,720 --> 00:40:15,600 On the performance bike, it's all function. 623 00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:23,480 Strength, weight, we want to get this as light as possible while still adhering to our factors 624 00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:25,600 of safety. 625 00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:32,760 Our goal has been to hit 13% grade on a climb while still maintaining traction. 626 00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:36,040 We've been able to get up around 12% with our prototypes. 627 00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:40,400 And I think our next prototype should be able to get up to 13. 628 00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:44,760 So those are the metrics we use for our performance spike. 629 00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:50,040 For our other bike, which is a recumbent bike that we're designing right now, the script 630 00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:51,480 is flipped a little bit. 631 00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:57,960 I think long term, it's going to be cost and weight. 632 00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:04,320 I don't see it being necessarily the highest performing performance gravel bike out there. 633 00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:11,320 But if we can make it light, accessible, and a good price point, then I see that as a win. 634 00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:16,560 So that script is flipped a little bit compared to the performance bike where students are 635 00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:18,720 really kind of pursuing. 636 00:41:18,720 --> 00:41:20,800 Can we shave 50 grams off here? 637 00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:23,280 What about 20 grams here? 638 00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:27,080 Every single aspect of it is just about performance. 639 00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:30,760 And then if something looks cool, that's never a bad thing. 640 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:40,200 But from a decision matrix standpoint, that would be pretty low on the totem pole. 641 00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:45,600 What advice would you give to students that might hear something like this and think that 642 00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:50,360 they would like to get into engineering for adaptive equipment? 643 00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:54,920 Well, I guess the first one would be feel free to reach out to me. 644 00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:58,640 We have an amazing program here. 645 00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:04,640 Students spend four years or five years, depending on how they're approaching their engineering 646 00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:09,640 degree in the Gunnison Valley, which is an absolutely gorgeous area. 647 00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:15,200 And you graduate with an ABET accredited CU degree, a top 10 mechanical engineering degree 648 00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:17,400 at an amazing facility. 649 00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:24,800 So if you're looking for a small class size, really hands on experience, then please reach 650 00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:26,180 out to me. 651 00:42:26,180 --> 00:42:32,840 If you're maybe in another space and you're looking to get into this, my answer is just 652 00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:34,520 start asking questions. 653 00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:41,640 Just start talking to people, asking questions and following the next lead. 654 00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:45,440 We typically have more resources around us than we even realize. 655 00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:50,200 When I've chased down ideas before, I'm always amazed that in my backyard, how many 656 00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:54,920 amazing resources are there, people that have experience in these areas. 657 00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:59,880 So if you're a student somewhere else, just start asking questions and then seeing where 658 00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:01,120 you can get into it. 659 00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:06,440 I think mechanical engineering is a phenomenal degree because of how broad it is. 660 00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:10,960 As a mechanical engineer, you can go into biomedical, you can go into energy, you can 661 00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:12,560 go into automotive, aerospace. 662 00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:16,400 It really is a gateway to almost any career path. 663 00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:22,400 So if you're looking for something that gives you a broad range and this is one of the areas 664 00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:26,400 you're interested in, mechanical engineering is a really good source. 665 00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:29,980 But yeah, that would be my advice. 666 00:43:29,980 --> 00:43:38,980 If you reflect back on your career prior to teaching, can you identify any ways that the 667 00:43:38,980 --> 00:43:43,080 work you did could have benefited more individuals with disabilities? 668 00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:51,840 I don't have the full picture of all the different directions your company went in. 669 00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:58,080 I guess maybe you have an idea as to what I'm going to add. 670 00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:03,720 I'm a little embarrassed to say this, but I would say I did very little. 671 00:44:03,720 --> 00:44:07,560 I didn't think about it. 672 00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:13,440 Our company did a lot of fundraisers for local nonprofits that we had partnered with. 673 00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:19,640 We used our platform, which we were a large metal fabrication shop, so we had a really 674 00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:20,640 cool space. 675 00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:26,200 We did a lot of these festivals where we'd bring in music and local breweries and we'd 676 00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:28,200 raise money for local organizations. 677 00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:34,360 But the adaptive market just wasn't on my radar at all. 678 00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:39,920 It really wasn't until I got to Crested Butte in the Gunnison Valley and I started talking 679 00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:46,600 to the adaptive sports center that it was like this slap across the face of just like, 680 00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:54,520 whoa, there's this whole area that you've never really thought of from a manufacturing 681 00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:57,960 standpoint or a product standpoint. 682 00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:03,080 I just got so fascinated by it because I saw so much opportunity. 683 00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:04,680 I saw areas. 684 00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:08,800 I look at a car, for example, and I'm like, I'm not going to make that car better. 685 00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:13,120 There's a lot of years of experience that have gone into it. 686 00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:20,480 But I started looking at some of the sports-related adaptive gear and then just some of the tools 687 00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:23,640 and things that were used for accommodation. 688 00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:27,480 I was like, I think we can make this better and I think we can make this better. 689 00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:33,120 When we started talking to them, the adaptive sports center and Crested Butte, the story 690 00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:34,120 was kind of the same. 691 00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:37,000 It was like, well, there isn't these big companies doing this. 692 00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:43,840 There's not these large organizations that are plowing a bunch of money into the pursuit 693 00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:46,320 of this. 694 00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:51,600 That's when I got really excited of like, wait a minute, this seems like an opportunity 695 00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:54,320 and I think students would be interested in this. 696 00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:59,720 So far, maybe they're just telling me it because I'm their professor, but so far, the feedback 697 00:45:59,720 --> 00:46:03,760 has been pretty good of like, wow, this was really enlightening. 698 00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:07,480 This was really challenging and I'm glad I had the experience. 699 00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:11,000 Yeah, I certainly wouldn't say it's something to be embarrassed about. 700 00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:15,680 You're running a company and first and foremost, you're in your own lane. 701 00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:17,520 You're trying to create a profitable business. 702 00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:18,520 Yeah. 703 00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:19,520 The same thing. 704 00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:25,560 I had exposure to disability until I walked into a gym for Special Olympics. 705 00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:29,440 Never would have been on my radar probably if I had just kept going in the trajectory 706 00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:30,440 that I was going in. 707 00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:35,400 So I think everyone kind of has some experience or introduction to it where at some point 708 00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:38,320 they're like, what was I doing before? 709 00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:40,160 Why was this never on my radar? 710 00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:45,320 But I think it's just, and maybe that's one of the reasons why there still exists a lot 711 00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:48,400 of environments that aren't inclusive and accessible because people just haven't been 712 00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:49,680 introduced to it yet. 713 00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:50,680 Yeah. 714 00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:53,520 I think that's one of the cool things about this podcast and what you're doing. 715 00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:57,240 I mean, before this podcast, a couple months ago, whatever it was when we were kind of 716 00:46:57,240 --> 00:47:02,320 first having our conversation, you made a few comments and I left that you were talking 717 00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:06,440 about like, all right, if you're a blind athlete and you want to go up and use the treadmill, 718 00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:08,040 how do you find it? 719 00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:11,520 If you're in a wheelchair and you're trying to get between the two treadmills, how do 720 00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:12,520 you get in between them? 721 00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:14,440 Because they're not spaced out enough. 722 00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:19,160 And after that conversation, I remember walking around, I was kind of looking at things and 723 00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:22,480 I was like, wow, how would you do this? 724 00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:24,360 And how would you do that? 725 00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:30,200 And so even some of those just like little seeds that are planted, I think there's a 726 00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:37,160 lot of value in just having these discussions, even if change isn't being proposed per se, 727 00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:40,560 you're just posing questions of like, have you thought of this? 728 00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:42,600 Because a lot of times the answer is no. 729 00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:47,560 And then once you do think about it, you start thinking to yourself, well, to make this better, 730 00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:50,040 it's not that hard. 731 00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:54,440 Small changes, like kind of like when I was talking about lean ideology in manufacturing, 732 00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:57,320 how do you reduce waste in manufacturing? 733 00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:58,640 It's not sweeping changes. 734 00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:04,180 A lot of times it's small changes make huge rippling effects in industry. 735 00:48:04,180 --> 00:48:06,180 So that's exciting. 736 00:48:06,180 --> 00:48:10,320 It's the same thing in the gym space where people have this misconception that accessibility 737 00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:17,460 are huge overhauls of the entire layout or the entire facility or these highly complex 738 00:48:17,460 --> 00:48:18,460 pieces of equipment. 739 00:48:18,460 --> 00:48:24,280 But sometimes it's just understanding the experience of an individual and figuring out, 740 00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:30,460 conversing with them, figuring out how their experience can just be marginally better. 741 00:48:30,460 --> 00:48:34,880 And ultimately, when I feel like when they know their voice is heard in the equation, 742 00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:41,840 they are going to have a lot more leniency and understanding that you are taking their 743 00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:46,400 best interest into consideration when kind of designing these environments. 744 00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:50,240 Yeah, I think that's a good way of putting it, like trying to think about somebody else's 745 00:48:50,240 --> 00:48:51,240 experience. 746 00:48:51,240 --> 00:48:56,680 If you kind of put yourself in the age old adage, like you put yourself in somebody else's 747 00:48:56,680 --> 00:49:03,800 shoes, if you just think about their experience, it's a good process to go through from time 748 00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:08,240 and time again to just kind of like see what it yields. 749 00:49:08,240 --> 00:49:15,680 Well, this is a space that I have no experience in, the mechanical engineering world. 750 00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:20,080 So I've enjoyed learning from you, learning a little bit about the process. 751 00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:24,320 There are a ton of parallels, I feel like, in terms of mechanical engineering design 752 00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:30,560 process and accessible environments in the fitness space, in the classroom and really 753 00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:32,480 any built environment. 754 00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:34,240 There are a lot of parallels between the two. 755 00:49:34,240 --> 00:49:36,560 So really appreciate you sharing that. 756 00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:39,280 Looking forward to seeing what you guys produce. 757 00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:40,280 Absolutely. 758 00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:44,760 If people are interested in following along with kind of that process, what would you 759 00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:50,600 recommend would be the best way to kind of stay in touch or stay up to date with that? 760 00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:57,120 Yeah, so we have a social media for our university. 761 00:49:57,120 --> 00:50:04,800 So it's the partnership program in Gunnison, Colorado, and we post routinely on there. 762 00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:11,320 So we will continue to post the process, how that is all going. 763 00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:18,400 And then potentially after we get this bike built and maybe after Justin does some races 764 00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:22,920 with it, I'd love to have another conversation with you and circle back and just kind of 765 00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:24,400 talk about how it went. 766 00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:25,480 Yeah, absolutely. 767 00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:31,680 And if there's mechanical engineering students in my circle that might be kind of here this 768 00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:36,480 conversation and think that I would love to bring that to their university, I'll definitely 769 00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:40,320 facilitate that connection with you and see if you can guide them in any way. 770 00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:41,320 Yeah, absolutely. 771 00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:47,120 If they want to reach out to me, I'd be more than happy to talk about this approach. 772 00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:49,640 Yeah, we'll include the show. 773 00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:54,440 We'll include the social handles and the show notes and as well as your contact information. 774 00:50:54,440 --> 00:51:00,920 But Greg, I'm glad I sent a cold email to you a couple of months ago. 775 00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:05,440 It's been a joy to talk to you multiple times over the last couple of months and looking 776 00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:07,360 forward to seeing what you accomplish. 777 00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:08,360 Thank you, Brendan. 778 00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:12,040 I appreciate being on the show and we will certainly be in contact as we continue down 779 00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:13,040 this path. 780 00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:15,400 Thank you for listening to the AdaptX Podcast. 781 00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:19,280 Our effort to amplify the ideas of our guests and create more inclusive and accessible industries 782 00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:22,360 is futile unless these episodes reach a larger audience. 783 00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:26,240 If you enjoyed our discussion today, please leave us a rating or review on whichever platform 784 00:51:26,240 --> 00:51:27,240 you use. 785 00:51:27,240 --> 00:51:30,280 And if you would like to learn more about AdaptX, the course that we teach to health 786 00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:34,100 and fitness professionals and the projects that our organization is working on, you can 787 00:51:34,100 --> 00:51:38,520 subscribe to our newsletter through our website www.adaptex.org. 788 00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:52,880 Until next Monday.