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All right, welcome to the Adaptex podcast where we have conversations with individuals who are building accessible businesses, advocating for inclusion or excelling in adaptive sports.

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Our intention is never to speak on behalf of those with disabilities, but give them a platform to share their work so we can work towards a more accessible world.

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Today, we are joined by John and Mark Cronin, the father-son team behind John's Crazy Socks, a social enterprise with a mission to spread happiness.

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They bootstrapped their business into the world's largest sock store with multi-million dollar revenue, which led to them being recognized with the prestigious Ernst & Young Entrepreneurs of the Year Award.

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They are fierce advocates for inclusion and have testified twice before the U.S. Congress and spoken at the United Nations.

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They are sought after keynote speakers, have recorded two TEDx talks, and are frequent guests on network television.

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Their company's giving back program has donated nearly a million dollars to their charity partners.

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John and Mark, I can't wait to share your wisdom with our audience.

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Thank you for joining me today.

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Thank you, Benjamin.

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We appreciate it.

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I'll be on your podcast.

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We're excited to be here.

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Did I?

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Hopefully the intro did you guys justice, but we'll be talking about one of my favorite topics today, how inclusion is not just an altruistic decision, but a profitable one.

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John, I'll go to you first.

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When did you realize that you wanted to start a business?

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I was trying to start a business and I want some crazy socks.

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And why socks?

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Well, when did you decide?

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When I decided?

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What year was it?

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2016.

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And where were you?

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I was at a high school.

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I was in a high school.

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I didn't know.

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He was in his last year of school.

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Many of your listeners will know.

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You can stay in the public school system until you turn 21.

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It's the 21 year old cliff.

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Because in school, everything's right in front of you.

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All your classes and therapy and for many people, that's where they get their food.

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And it's where they or some of their meals and it's daycare.

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But once you turn 21, you're on your own.

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And in states, you're in Massachusetts, where New York, there may be lots of programs out there, but you have to try to navigate them and figure them out.

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And then in other states like Texas, Florida, Mississippi, there's nothing.

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So you were heading for that 21 year old cliff.

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I did.

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Trying to figure out what comes after school.

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Right.

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Right.

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And what were you looking at?

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I looked at shop programs and school.

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I can't find a program that I don't like.

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He didn't say anything he liked.

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Yeah.

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And Brendan, you know what this is like.

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Many of those programs are in essence daycare programs.

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We'll keep you busy during the day.

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John couldn't find meaningful work.

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Yeah.

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John here is a natural entrepreneur.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, I saw online you quote from you saying that the best way to find a job that you love is to create one.

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I love that.

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That's the same thing.

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Basically, that I did.

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I started my gym in 2016.

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So maybe there's maybe there was something in the water back there.

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But how did you choose what product that you want to sell?

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Well, let's see.

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First thing was you decided to go into business, right?

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Yes, I did.

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And what did you tell me?

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I want to go out there with my dad and I want to have a nice father and son together.

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So and then he had a lot of ideas.

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I do.

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A lot of ideas.

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What was wonderful?

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What I mean a food truck, I have idea for the movie called Chef and I want to act out and jump out.

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I eat a movie about a father and son bonding a food truck.

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Yeah, actually, I've seen that.

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A food truck.

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I'm very cool, right?

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Everybody loves eating at a food truck.

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And we think of what could we make?

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Where would we put it?

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But we ran into a problem.

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A witch haircut.

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But then right before Thanksgiving, you had your eureka moment.

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I did.

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I was out creating socks.

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White socks is fine.

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It's colorful.

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It's creative.

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It always let me be me.

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I want crazy socks my whole life.

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We used to drive around looking for these socks.

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In fact, I remember going to a place in Orleans out on the Cape where they had some crazy socks that you picked up.

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So we figured, OK, John loved them this much.

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Surely other people would too.

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We can find those people.

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Right.

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Right, Dad.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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I know you guys have thousands of designs and I've never been in the in the retail product e-commerce space.

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But how do you find that balance between?

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I know the more skews you have, the more designs you have, the harder it is to scale and kind of make things repeatable.

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So did you kind of make any decision like, oh, maybe we should narrow down our focus or do you like the plethora of different designs?

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Well, you are right.

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There is a tradeoff.

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The more skews you have, the more space you need.

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What we have found is that it's the choice that matters to our customers.

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We don't really have any best selling socks.

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There's no one or two pair that everybody buys.

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Frequently in a business, and you may find this in your business, the 80-20 rule applies where 20 percent of your products account for 80 percent of your revenue.

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Ours, it's much more balanced.

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So there is a tradeoff.

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We do monitor it closely.

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And if things stop, don't sell, we don't get them again.

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We'll get new items.

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But the choice matters.

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And how many different socks do we have?

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We have four thousand and two kinds of socks.

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Well, and here's the cool thing, Brent.

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That means John here.

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He owns the world's largest sock store.

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I was going to say, I didn't even come up with four thousand designs.

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Well, everybody contributes.

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You know, and that's a way where diversity is really important.

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No one person can pick socks for every customer out there.

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So everybody here contributes in picking different socks.

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We track trends that are out there and we listen to our customers.

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Customers always come up with ideas.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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I know I kind of glanced over it, but maybe for our listeners who aren't familiar, Mark, can you give me a little bit insight into the nature of the business, the inclusive practices of hiring, kind of the structure of the business?

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Sure.

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You know, we could.

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You know, we told you where the idea came from.

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We could always tell you the origin story, which, you know, just started with just the two of us.

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But so John's crazy socks is a slightly different type of business model.

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We're a social enterprise.

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We have both a social and a business purpose and they feed off of each other.

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And what's our mission?

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A spread happiness.

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Spreading happiness.

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That drives everything we do.

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That's the criteria for everything we do.

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And what do you say are the keys to happiness?

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It's gratitude and due for others.

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Gratitude, due for others, that permeates everything we do.

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And we've built the business on five pillars.

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It's spirit and hope.

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Give it back.

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Find the price you can't love.

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Make it personal.

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Make it clear to others.

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So, you know, quickly make it a great place to work.

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If we're going to spread happiness, we have to start at home.

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People have to be happy working here.

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They have to feel valued and respected.

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They have to have autonomy.

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We want to put them in a position to succeed.

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So that's really important.

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Making it personal in retail, particularly in e-commerce, it's easy to go chasing transactions.

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We're trying to build a community.

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We're trying to build relationships.

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So we're always looking for ways to make things personal with our customers.

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And that affects everything we do.

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You know, if you call here, you never get voice mail.

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You're going to talk to a human.

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There's no scripts.

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We don't listen in on the phone calls.

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You're going to have an actual human conversation.

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Good chance.

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Personal answers on that phone is going to be the mama bear, right?

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Yes.

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Our packaging, you know, we don't just send you signs.

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When you get a package from us, it's got John's smiling face on the outside.

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What do you put in every package?

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Every package, yeah.

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I'm digging new for me and I'm digging new.

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Well, thank you, no, that John writes.

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We put candy in every package.

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And you see a picture with the name, the picture name of the person who packed your order.

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And there's a discount code in there too.

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So you're not just getting socks.

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You get a little dose of happiness.

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We're always looking to drive that connection.

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I'll give you a little anecdote.

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We sell socks for diabetics.

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And one day one of our happiness packages comes to us and says, you know, we're sending socks to diabetics and we're sending them candy.

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What's wrong with that picture?

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So now we have a supply of sugar free candy.

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And if you order socks for diabetics, we ship you them.

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Fun products you can love.

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Who has to approve every product?

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I do.

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It's got to spread happiness.

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But there's another part to that.

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We have to deliver the goods.

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We have to have a great website.

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We have to have great selection.

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The products have to be great.

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We have over 30,000 five star reviews.

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And the service has to be great.

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We do same day shipping.

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We do better shipping than Amazon.

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And Jeff Bezos over at Amazon, he's not putting a thank you note in candy in those packages.

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I do that.

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We'll do anything we can to connect with that customer and really delight them.

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And then giving back.

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That's part of the gratitude.

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What can we do for others?

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So we start by pledging five percent of our earnings to a Special Olympics.

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And why the Special Olympics?

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I am a Special Olympic athlete.

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I will tell you, Brandon, if there was no Special Olympics, there'd be no John's Crazy Socks.

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So we start there.

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But we've gone on to create products that raise awareness and celebrate causes and raise money for those causes.

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So what were the first awareness socks we created?

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The very first sock is a Down syndrome awareness sock.

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Down syndrome awareness sock.

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And who designed that?

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I did.

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So we have a whole line of Down syndrome products that raise money for the National Down Syndrome Society.

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In fact, we just introduced our World Down Syndrome Day socks because people celebrate World Down Syndrome Day by wearing crazy socks.

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And we did that in conjunction with Down Syndrome International and the National Down Syndrome Society.

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But we have autism themed socks, cerebral palsy themed socks.

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All of these raise money for our charity partners.

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We sponsor an Autism Can Do Scholarship.

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It's open right now.

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Julie, three scholarships, top prize is five thousand dollars.

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What are you going to do?

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Design a pair of socks.

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Right.

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You don't have to be a graphic artist.

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None of the previous five winners were.

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So it's sad.

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But the most important aspect of our business is...

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And how?

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We want to show the world with people with different abilities.

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So we start with John.

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You have Down syndrome.

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I have Down syndrome.

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Down syndrome, I never hold me back.

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We don't hide you in the back.

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You're right up front.

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Right.

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I am a face of the business.

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And what a face you are.

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We hire people with different abilities.

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So more than half of our colleagues have a different ability.

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And that's not enough.

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We want to show the world.

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So we'll create content that we share in our social media platform.

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We host tours.

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We've had more than two thousand people come through our facility.

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And then many more coming through virtual tours.

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We host work groups.

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So two work groups here today.

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Yes.

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That come in once a week for an hour to two hours to get some work experience.

255
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They come from high school social service agencies.

256
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What's really important is somebody with a different ability to see someone who looks

257
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like them working.

258
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It sends a message of encouragement and hope.

259
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Yes, there are jobs out there for me.

260
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And then we do speaking events.

261
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So we're really appreciative of you having us on your podcast.

262
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How cool is this?

263
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We travel the country giving speeches.

264
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Right.

265
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You like doing that.

266
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You do.

267
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Across the U.S., Canada, Mexico.

268
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We've spoken around the world virtually.

269
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And then the last part of that is advocacy work.

270
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You've had some great leaders on your podcast, right?

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People will listen to us because of the business.

272
00:14:41,700 --> 00:14:46,500
And that creates an obligation on our part to speak up.

273
00:14:46,500 --> 00:14:51,000
So was it last week we had Congressman LaLana in?

274
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Came for half an hour.

275
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We spent an hour and a half.

276
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We wanted him to see what our colleagues do.

277
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And then we were able to talk to him about legislative changes.

278
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Like changes in the SSI asset limits, eliminating the subminimum wage.

279
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We're going back to Capitol Hill on World Down Syndrome Day.

280
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Yes.

281
00:15:12,900 --> 00:15:16,600
You know, you mentioned we testified twice before Congress.

282
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We have to add we were not subpoenaed.

283
00:15:21,500 --> 00:15:28,400
So you take all of that, you roll it up, and you get John's crazy socks.

284
00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:33,000
So when people buy from us, they get great socks.

285
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They get socks they can love that let them express themselves.

286
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But they help us hire, employ people with different abilities.

287
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They help us give back.

288
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Most of all, as having them spread and happy.

289
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A lot to unpack there.

290
00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:53,800
Let's see. I had several questions pop into mind as you were speaking.

291
00:15:53,800 --> 00:16:00,900
If a business is resistant to adopt a more inclusive workforce, what would you tell them?

292
00:16:00,900 --> 00:16:04,800
They're going to hurt themselves.

293
00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:12,000
You and we're in agreement hiring people with different abilities is not altruism.

294
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:13,300
It's good business.

295
00:16:13,300 --> 00:16:17,600
We never make the moral argument when we think that's self-evident.

296
00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:22,200
But we will show how it will help a business get ahead.

297
00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:25,500
Here, I'll give you, you can start with our business.

298
00:16:25,500 --> 00:16:29,100
So we run our own, we do our own fulfillment day.

299
00:16:29,100 --> 00:16:31,900
If you sell online, you have to be able to fulfill orders.

300
00:16:31,900 --> 00:16:35,200
Many people outsource that.

301
00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:37,900
You got to have a pick and pack warehouse.

302
00:16:37,900 --> 00:16:42,300
What is come in, you pick them, you pack them, you send them out.

303
00:16:42,300 --> 00:16:44,300
Well, that's a boom industry.

304
00:16:44,300 --> 00:16:47,400
We do our own.

305
00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:50,500
There is a growing labor shortage.

306
00:16:50,500 --> 00:16:56,500
So there aren't enough people to fill all the jobs in those warehouses.

307
00:16:56,500 --> 00:16:57,900
We know we're on Long Island.

308
00:16:57,900 --> 00:17:03,900
We know of places they've lost business because they couldn't get enough employees.

309
00:17:03,900 --> 00:17:07,200
Meanwhile, we have more than enough employees.

310
00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:14,300
We have a surplus of people applying because we tap into the population of people with different abilities.

311
00:17:14,300 --> 00:17:19,100
And be really clear, we don't give jobs to anybody.

312
00:17:19,100 --> 00:17:23,700
If you got to know us, you'd find out that John here is a very nice guy.

313
00:17:23,700 --> 00:17:24,600
I am.

314
00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:26,100
I am not.

315
00:17:26,100 --> 00:17:29,300
If you're going to work for us, you have to produce.

316
00:17:29,300 --> 00:17:32,000
So everybody here has earned that job.

317
00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:35,300
But that gives us a competitive advantage.

318
00:17:35,300 --> 00:17:38,900
But you know, okay, we're a small business.

319
00:17:38,900 --> 00:17:41,900
Let's take a larger business.

320
00:17:41,900 --> 00:17:48,800
You've probably heard of this software company out of Redmond, Washington called Microsoft.

321
00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:56,000
So they're in fierce competition to hire technical people and programmers.

322
00:17:56,000 --> 00:18:02,700
And they start asking, geez, how come we don't hire more people on the autism spectrum,

323
00:18:02,700 --> 00:18:07,100
many of whom are very good with technical challenges?

324
00:18:07,100 --> 00:18:09,100
Well, that's an easy one to answer.

325
00:18:09,100 --> 00:18:12,900
You work with people with intellectual development disabilities

326
00:18:12,900 --> 00:18:17,700
because maybe that person didn't look you in the eye.

327
00:18:17,700 --> 00:18:25,800
Maybe that person didn't give you a firm handshake.

328
00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:28,800
But they're pretty smart people at Microsoft.

329
00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:34,700
They start asking, what the heck does a firm handshake have to do with programming?

330
00:18:34,700 --> 00:18:37,600
So they change the way they hire people.

331
00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:41,300
Now they hire lots of people on the autism spectrum.

332
00:18:41,300 --> 00:18:46,900
That gives them a competitive advantage over other tech companies.

333
00:18:46,900 --> 00:18:49,500
So that's why you want to do it.

334
00:18:49,500 --> 00:18:52,700
You want to do it for what people bring to the table.

335
00:18:52,700 --> 00:18:55,000
IBM hired, what was his name?

336
00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:57,900
Dylan Ratliff, I think was his name.

337
00:18:57,900 --> 00:19:06,700
They sent him to a site, a client site that's working on programs for quality assurance.

338
00:19:06,700 --> 00:19:10,300
After two weeks, he gets his, you know, he's got his team.

339
00:19:10,300 --> 00:19:15,400
He comes together with them and says, would it be okay if I made some changes?

340
00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:20,700
He overhauled the software they use, got new patents, and was named employee of the year.

341
00:19:20,700 --> 00:19:21,900
Why?

342
00:19:21,900 --> 00:19:25,600
Because he looked at things from a different perspective.

343
00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:32,700
And that enabled, gave him like special powers to improve an existing product.

344
00:19:32,700 --> 00:19:36,400
So there are lots of reasons to do it.

345
00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:37,100
Absolutely.

346
00:19:37,100 --> 00:19:43,200
Can you shout out maybe some other organizations or businesses that are kind of set the standard with that?

347
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,400
Sure. There are really fabulous places.

348
00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:53,500
So down in Florida, there's Sunshine Car Wash.

349
00:19:53,500 --> 00:19:56,700
Most everybody works there is on the autism spectrum.

350
00:19:56,700 --> 00:19:59,300
In Atlanta, there's Ventures ATL.

351
00:19:59,300 --> 00:20:01,100
They do data entry.

352
00:20:01,100 --> 00:20:04,600
They do assembly projects.

353
00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:07,600
Here in New York, there's Spectrum Design.

354
00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:11,000
If you want a logo on something, they will put it on a logo.

355
00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:12,600
They do great work.

356
00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:22,500
But, you know, take, you know, I mentioned Microsoft, IBM has a neurodiversity program that is now running in 11 countries.

357
00:20:22,500 --> 00:20:25,900
Ernst & Young, EY.

358
00:20:25,900 --> 00:20:30,400
You know, they have some initiatives in their Dublin office.

359
00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:40,100
They work with Trinity College on a program and then they hire folks that graduate from a neurodiversity program at Trinity College.

360
00:20:40,100 --> 00:20:46,700
The results of that, they've dramatically improved their retention rate.

361
00:20:46,700 --> 00:20:51,500
So those are some of the places doing things.

362
00:20:51,500 --> 00:20:55,700
It takes a real commitment.

363
00:20:55,700 --> 00:20:58,500
You have to pay attention.

364
00:20:58,500 --> 00:21:04,100
But there's so much misplaced fear and apprehension.

365
00:21:04,100 --> 00:21:08,500
Here's an example.

366
00:21:08,500 --> 00:21:22,600
You hear, you know, we hear from business owners, business leaders, that they're worried about the adaptations they'll have to make.

367
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:26,100
Fifty-six percent of people need nothing.

368
00:21:26,100 --> 00:21:27,600
Most is minor.

369
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:31,300
At most, it might cost a couple hundred dollars.

370
00:21:31,300 --> 00:21:41,100
So a staffing company like Wrangham is able to place people in jobs and fill more openings because of that.

371
00:21:41,100 --> 00:21:44,000
Yeah, yeah, that's a great example.

372
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:48,400
As also you kind of glanced over the SSI levels.

373
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:59,600
That was something that kind of interested in as well, because Social Security, I think for individuals with disabilities in order to receive their benefits, they currently can't make more than what, $2,000 a year?

374
00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:03,200
Well, here's the bigger picture issue.

375
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:03,500
Right.

376
00:22:03,500 --> 00:22:06,900
But I'll drill down on this.

377
00:22:06,900 --> 00:22:16,200
We are constantly forcing people with a disability to choose between work and benefits.

378
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:19,300
So you can qualify for SSI.

379
00:22:19,300 --> 00:22:24,700
But if you earn too much, you lose your SSI benefits.

380
00:22:24,700 --> 00:22:27,100
And there are two parts to SSI.

381
00:22:27,100 --> 00:22:33,300
There's the cash benefit and the medical coverage through Medicaid or Medicare.

382
00:22:33,300 --> 00:22:37,400
And it's really the medical coverage that matters.

383
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:46,100
I understand the public policy that says, wait a second, if you're earning money, that ought to offset the cash grant.

384
00:22:46,100 --> 00:22:50,500
But Medicaid and Medicare pay for things private insurance don't pay for.

385
00:22:50,500 --> 00:22:54,200
And it provides a constant support.

386
00:22:54,200 --> 00:23:05,300
We know of people that have turned down jobs that would come with health insurance because they say, well, wait a second, if something happens and I lose that job, then I'm out.

387
00:23:05,300 --> 00:23:09,500
But if I hold on to my benefit, they're afraid.

388
00:23:09,500 --> 00:23:12,100
So you have to qualify for SSI.

389
00:23:12,100 --> 00:23:15,200
You have to show you have a disability.

390
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:18,400
Your income has to be below a certain level.

391
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:23,000
And your assets have to be below $2,000.

392
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:28,400
That $2,000 limit was set in 1979.

393
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:33,900
I was still rocking out with long hair and Worcester in 1979 in college.

394
00:23:33,900 --> 00:23:35,600
This is nuts.

395
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:36,500
Think about it.

396
00:23:36,500 --> 00:23:41,900
Imagine somebody getting paid in 1979 and they haven't had a raise since then.

397
00:23:41,900 --> 00:23:48,700
So there is a bill in Congress that would raise it to $10,000 and $20,000 for a married couple.

398
00:23:48,700 --> 00:23:52,300
So there's no marriage penalty.

399
00:23:52,300 --> 00:24:01,900
But that's an example where we're telling people, if you have a disability, the system is geared to say, we really don't want you to work.

400
00:24:01,900 --> 00:24:03,600
And that's awful.

401
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:04,700
Absolutely.

402
00:24:04,700 --> 00:24:05,700
Yeah, absolutely.

403
00:24:05,700 --> 00:24:09,700
Is that one of the two times that you testified at Congress?

404
00:24:09,700 --> 00:24:12,400
Was it related to that or something else?

405
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:17,900
Which more generally, we speak to them about employing people with different abilities.

406
00:24:17,900 --> 00:24:23,400
And there are lots of legislative changes, big and small.

407
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:29,700
One of the things we speak about all the time is the subminimum wage.

408
00:24:29,700 --> 00:24:37,000
So the Fair Labor Standard Act of 1938 is a great piece of American history.

409
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,300
Want to study political science or history?

410
00:24:39,300 --> 00:24:40,600
Go look at it.

411
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:46,600
It established a 40-hour work week, eliminated child labor, created overtime.

412
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,500
It's a wonderful piece of legislation.

413
00:24:49,500 --> 00:25:05,900
But Section 14C of the Fair Labor Standard Act of 1938 allows employers to pay people with a disability less than minimum wage.

414
00:25:05,900 --> 00:25:07,900
So the number keeps coming down.

415
00:25:07,900 --> 00:25:18,500
At one point, there were hundreds of thousands of people being paid as little as five cents an hour in what are known as sheltered workshops.

416
00:25:18,500 --> 00:25:22,300
Perhaps in 1938, that made sense.

417
00:25:22,300 --> 00:25:27,100
In 1938, John would have never made it out of infancy.

418
00:25:27,100 --> 00:25:30,300
But now it shouldn't exist.

419
00:25:30,300 --> 00:25:35,600
So we work with many others advocating overturning that law.

420
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:36,500
It's getting closer.

421
00:25:36,500 --> 00:25:37,500
It's going to happen.

422
00:25:37,500 --> 00:25:45,700
Yeah, I know Kim Nackstead, who we had on the podcast when she was President Biden's Director of Disability.

423
00:25:45,700 --> 00:25:55,800
She talked about spearheading the subminimum wage bill and how that was some of the most meaningful work that she was doing during her time in the White House.

424
00:25:55,800 --> 00:26:04,500
So I think that's an essential piece of kind of I mean, it lowers the expectation that people have for individuals with disabilities as a whole.

425
00:26:04,500 --> 00:26:10,100
It's the same thing that we sometimes see in the fitness space when inclusion is perceived as a charitable endeavor.

426
00:26:10,100 --> 00:26:14,100
It just marginalizes the population by lowering expectations.

427
00:26:14,100 --> 00:26:22,400
I liken it to a great stain on the Constitution when it was originally passed.

428
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:32,100
It said that if you were black, you were only counted as three-fifths of a citizen, three-fifths of a person.

429
00:26:32,100 --> 00:26:33,900
Well, that's what this is saying.

430
00:26:33,900 --> 00:26:37,500
If you have a disability, you don't count as a real person.

431
00:26:37,500 --> 00:26:38,500
And that's awful.

432
00:26:38,500 --> 00:26:39,900
Yeah, absolutely.

433
00:26:39,900 --> 00:26:42,700
You mentioned that the business wouldn't exist without Special Olympics.

434
00:26:42,700 --> 00:26:48,800
John, what is your favorite event in Special Olympics or sport with Special Olympics?

435
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:52,100
What sports do you play in Special Olympics?

436
00:26:52,100 --> 00:26:57,900
I play basketball, track and field, soccer, and snowshoes.

437
00:26:57,900 --> 00:26:59,100
What's your favorite?

438
00:26:59,100 --> 00:27:01,000
My favorite is snowshoes.

439
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:01,900
Snowshoes? You like that?

440
00:27:01,900 --> 00:27:02,700
Snowshoes.

441
00:27:02,700 --> 00:27:07,000
Awesome, not a great year for snowshoeing weather-wise.

442
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,200
But we train on the beach.

443
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:15,100
I think kind of like you guys, I don't think my gym would exist without Special Olympics

444
00:27:15,100 --> 00:27:20,300
because it was Special Olympics that introduced me to the world of disability as a whole.

445
00:27:20,300 --> 00:27:25,200
I don't think I had any exposure to disability prior to volunteering during high school.

446
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:29,000
And from there, I just decided I wanted to make a career out of it.

447
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,200
So, yeah.

448
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:35,200
So, without organizations like that, it doesn't only benefit people like John,

449
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,000
but it completely changed my life as well.

450
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:38,800
So, yeah.

451
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:40,200
Everybody is better off.

452
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:41,800
I mean, that's what we find at work.

453
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:42,100
Yeah.

454
00:27:42,100 --> 00:27:47,300
Everybody is better off because it's a diverse workplace because, you know,

455
00:27:47,300 --> 00:27:50,800
we don't have any original ideas.

456
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,200
We take the term from Special Olympics.

457
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:57,500
We refer to this as a unified workplace where people with different abilities

458
00:27:57,500 --> 00:28:00,200
and neurotypicals work side by side.

459
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:01,100
Yeah.

460
00:28:01,100 --> 00:28:04,400
That's probably why my gym was called Unified Health and Performance.

461
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:08,400
Definitely pulled from some of my Special Olympics stuff as well

462
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:10,300
when I was opening it initially.

463
00:28:10,300 --> 00:28:13,800
So, no, that's great.

464
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:18,900
Do you pull from some companies like Bombas and other social enterprises?

465
00:28:18,900 --> 00:28:21,700
I know Bombas does like a buy a sock, donate a sock.

466
00:28:21,700 --> 00:28:25,300
Do you guys kind of draw inspiration from any other companies?

467
00:28:25,300 --> 00:28:27,000
Well, they're a competitor.

468
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,100
So, we say their name, we spit on the board.

469
00:28:30,100 --> 00:28:33,000
It's a big world out there.

470
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:34,200
There's socks for everybody.

471
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:35,300
Socks for everybody for sure.

472
00:28:35,300 --> 00:28:39,100
We do look for collaborations.

473
00:28:39,100 --> 00:28:42,600
We work closely with a lot of our charity partners.

474
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:48,800
And we like to promote entrepreneurs that have a different ability.

475
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:54,900
So, for example, every holiday season, we put together a Down Syndrome Superbox

476
00:28:54,900 --> 00:29:02,000
that is made up of products from companies owned by or led by

477
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,500
or focused on people with Down Syndrome.

478
00:29:04,500 --> 00:29:09,000
We've done joint packages and joint products,

479
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,500
including one from Boston with Coletti's Cookies.

480
00:29:12,500 --> 00:29:17,100
Coletti Vito has a cookie company.

481
00:29:17,100 --> 00:29:18,500
She's got Down Syndrome.

482
00:29:18,500 --> 00:29:22,200
So, we look to promote and work with others there.

483
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:29,900
We work with businesses for speaking engagements

484
00:29:29,900 --> 00:29:34,900
and consulting them on hiring people with different abilities.

485
00:29:34,900 --> 00:29:37,500
Yeah, absolutely.

486
00:29:37,500 --> 00:29:41,600
John, what's your favorite part of working at the company?

487
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:48,400
My favorite part in the company is speaking engagement.

488
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:52,400
I like to do home deliveries.

489
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:54,700
I like to do videos.

490
00:29:54,700 --> 00:29:56,700
I like to do TikToks.

491
00:29:56,700 --> 00:29:58,700
I like to do TikToks.

492
00:29:58,700 --> 00:30:03,700
I like having a pick and order.

493
00:30:03,700 --> 00:30:08,200
I like to have a good wrapping.

494
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:13,200
I like to own a good party.

495
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:17,200
I like to sign socks.

496
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,500
I like to talk to guys.

497
00:30:20,500 --> 00:30:23,500
Sounds like you like it all.

498
00:30:23,500 --> 00:30:25,500
You love your job.

499
00:30:25,500 --> 00:30:26,900
That's perfect.

500
00:30:26,900 --> 00:30:31,700
A couple of weeks ago, we were driving to an early morning

501
00:30:31,700 --> 00:30:32,700
speaking engagement.

502
00:30:32,700 --> 00:30:34,700
We were going to speak to this business group.

503
00:30:34,700 --> 00:30:37,300
So, it's like 730 in the morning.

504
00:30:37,300 --> 00:30:41,300
John is not really a morning person.

505
00:30:41,300 --> 00:30:45,100
He's looking at his phone, going over his calendar for the day.

506
00:30:45,100 --> 00:30:51,400
And he turns and he looks at me and said, Dad, I love being an entrepreneur.

507
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:59,100
I have something important to do from 8 a.m. to 9 o'clock tonight.

508
00:30:59,100 --> 00:31:00,100
That's pretty cool.

509
00:31:00,100 --> 00:31:01,700
Yeah, Dad.

510
00:31:01,700 --> 00:31:06,600
Yeah, John, do you ever, or Mark as well, do you ever just like kind of sit back

511
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:11,300
and realize how many lives you've impacted and how much like happiness

512
00:31:11,300 --> 00:31:16,300
that you've brought to the world?

513
00:31:16,300 --> 00:31:21,300
Well, what are you most proud of?

514
00:31:21,300 --> 00:31:25,300
We're incredibly fortunate to get to do what we do.

515
00:31:25,300 --> 00:31:32,100
And, you know, from the beginning, when we first tested the idea, it was just the two of us.

516
00:31:32,100 --> 00:31:39,000
The thing that surprised us the most, caught us off guard, was the emotional response we got

517
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:43,800
from people that saw a young man with Down syndrome starting a business.

518
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,500
And we see it in the tours we have.

519
00:31:46,500 --> 00:31:55,300
We hear from customers, families, people that after speaking engagement come up and speak to us.

520
00:31:55,300 --> 00:31:57,600
That motivates us.

521
00:31:57,600 --> 00:31:59,600
It's incredibly rewarding.

522
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:07,800
But also, we feel pressure of, we've made a big promise to people.

523
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:16,800
We've said you can grow, you can go and grow a business based on employing people with different abilities.

524
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:20,500
You grow a business in many ways based on love.

525
00:32:20,500 --> 00:32:23,100
And we can't let people down.

526
00:32:23,100 --> 00:32:28,400
You know, it's like that movie, failure is not an option.

527
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,300
So, and, you know, running a business can be tough.

528
00:32:31,300 --> 00:32:34,600
We've started our eighth year.

529
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:38,400
Most businesses fail within five.

530
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,000
What are the biggest lessons that you've learned over the last five years?

531
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:46,100
Maybe are the challenges that you guys have faced running the business?

532
00:32:46,100 --> 00:32:48,800
Fail fast.

533
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:52,800
Be willing to go out and take chances, learn, fail fast.

534
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,800
We've learned you need capital.

535
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:58,300
You want to grow. You want to be big. You need capital.

536
00:32:58,300 --> 00:33:03,600
And that's been a struggle for us at times.

537
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:09,400
And it's because you were successful yesterday does not mean you're going to be successful today.

538
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,400
You have to keep doing it.

539
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:18,700
Absolutely. Was COVID a challenge for you guys or were there any benefits that came from that period of time?

540
00:33:18,700 --> 00:33:25,000
COVID was awful for us, for our business.

541
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:28,900
So, you have to put some things in perspective.

542
00:33:28,900 --> 00:33:33,700
We are a very seasonal business.

543
00:33:33,700 --> 00:33:40,300
We, nobody buys anything in January because they spent all their money on holidays.

544
00:33:40,300 --> 00:33:44,600
Then the spring we usually do pretty well.

545
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:54,100
However, much of that is because of events like World Down Syndrome Day and schools and businesses doing things.

546
00:33:54,100 --> 00:33:58,000
And then Autism Awareness Month in April.

547
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,200
We've been fortunate with a lot of media coverage.

548
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:04,000
All that got wiped out by COVID.

549
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:08,200
And then you hit the summer and nobody buys socks in the summer anyway.

550
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:09,900
It's awful.

551
00:34:09,900 --> 00:34:12,400
And you wait for the Christmas to come back.

552
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:19,900
So, but our response to COVID I think really shows who we are.

553
00:34:19,900 --> 00:34:24,200
First, we had to make sure that everybody was safe.

554
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:28,200
Our colleagues were vulnerable.

555
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:40,200
People with Down Syndrome were not more likely to get the virus, but they were five times more likely to be hospitalized, ten times more likely to die.

556
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:45,000
So, there was make sure people were safe.

557
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:46,800
See what we can adapt.

558
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:48,700
How do you have to adapt to it?

559
00:34:48,700 --> 00:34:51,600
So, those tours, we moved them online.

560
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:55,100
The speaking engagements, we moved those online.

561
00:34:55,100 --> 00:35:00,800
We made healthcare superhero socks to say thank you to frontline workers.

562
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:05,200
And those raised over $50,000 for frontline workers.

563
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:08,600
And then you look to say, what's new?

564
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:10,300
So, we made masks.

565
00:35:10,300 --> 00:35:11,800
Yes.

566
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:13,900
And what's our mission?

567
00:35:13,900 --> 00:35:16,200
Spread happiness.

568
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:21,000
How do you spread happiness if everybody is locked down and isolated?

569
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:22,600
Well, here's one way.

570
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:32,400
John started an online dance party, which he runs to this day and you're going to run this afternoon, 3 o'clock Eastern time every Tuesday.

571
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:38,500
What better way to bring people together than a dance party?

572
00:35:38,500 --> 00:35:42,000
So, yeah, we adapted to COVID.

573
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:49,400
What would you say are your primary goals for the next few years from a business standpoint or a personal standpoint?

574
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:53,900
We want to reach more people. We want to reach more people.

575
00:35:53,900 --> 00:35:59,200
We got to sell more socks. Yes. Right? Because that lets us hire more people.

576
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:03,600
So, we already sell direct to consumers or a website.

577
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:07,900
We are selling to other businesses, right? We make custom socks.

578
00:36:07,900 --> 00:36:12,400
Everybody from Microsoft and IBM and bottom to.

579
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:20,400
Local attorneys and accountants and small businesses and membership organizations and nonprofits.

580
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:26,600
We're offering more services there, so now we can offer fulfillment services.

581
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:35,400
Yeah, we have a special new customer welcome package we can put together for businesses that want to thank a new customer.

582
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,600
We have a membership package.

583
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:45,800
For membership organization, nonprofits, if they want to send that to new members.

584
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:52,300
We have a charity fund raising program, so there's a lot more that we're offering to the businesses and nonprofits.

585
00:36:52,300 --> 00:36:55,100
And we're starting to sell into the wholesale channel.

586
00:36:55,100 --> 00:36:59,200
So, if someone's out there, they have a store and would like to carry our socks.

587
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,100
We can make that happen. That's awesome.

588
00:37:02,100 --> 00:37:07,200
Yeah, hopefully, hopefully we'll reach some people that are that are interested with this and will definitely share.

589
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:10,800
Share all the relevant links and social media channels and websites, et cetera.

590
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:23,500
But one of the, I guess, main themes of the podcast as a whole is how we can make health and fitness more accessible for people with various disabilities.

591
00:37:23,500 --> 00:37:31,700
Do you have any insights? I know a lot of the stuff that we've talked about is applicable to the fitness industry as well in terms of best practices with hiring,

592
00:37:31,700 --> 00:37:44,300
but maybe maybe etiquette language expectations. What do you think needs to change to have people like John more well immersed within their communities?

593
00:37:44,300 --> 00:37:54,500
Be more welcoming. Let's show that we welcome people with different abilities into our gyms.

594
00:37:54,500 --> 00:37:59,200
If you lower expectations, people will live down to those expectations.

595
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:04,700
If you set expectations, you can perform. You've been working to get in shape, right?

596
00:38:04,700 --> 00:38:08,900
So you're running at lunchtime, doing exercises.

597
00:38:08,900 --> 00:38:15,100
Yeah, sir. You're going to help dad get back in shape, run marathons again.

598
00:38:15,100 --> 00:38:20,100
Yes. Go back to when I could run the Boston Marathon.

599
00:38:20,100 --> 00:38:29,100
That was a lifetime ago. But I, you know, so I liken it to jobs.

600
00:38:29,100 --> 00:38:35,900
I used to think we needed to create more jobs for people with different abilities.

601
00:38:35,900 --> 00:38:40,100
I think that's wrong. The jobs are there.

602
00:38:40,100 --> 00:38:45,000
We just have to recognize that people with different abilities can feel them.

603
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:48,600
And it's kind of that way in the fitness industry.

604
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:52,600
That somebody come in, you know,

605
00:38:52,600 --> 00:39:03,700
participate or join the gym accommodations. You make accommodations for gym participants all the time.

606
00:39:03,700 --> 00:39:09,400
Yeah, that's one of the main things we try to communicate is that there's way more similarities and differences.

607
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:18,800
For some reason, people associate disability with injury and think that disability should be reserved for a rehabilitation setting.

608
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:28,500
But we've found so much value in just making it seamlessly integrated within our facility that it benefits the adaptive athlete.

609
00:39:28,500 --> 00:39:36,700
It benefits our entire population. But yeah, I think it's it's been a very rewarding career.

610
00:39:36,700 --> 00:39:45,000
I hope I'm able to promote more inclusive gyms in the same way that you guys are able to promote more inclusive workforces.

611
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:52,200
But I'm running Boston in April pushing Jacob, pushing Jacob, who has Down syndrome in a wheelchair.

612
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:57,900
So maybe I'll have to pick up a pair of Down syndrome awareness socks to run the marathon in.

613
00:39:57,900 --> 00:40:01,200
Well, I have to send that to you. I'll pick it up.

614
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:05,600
That's a well, that's wonderful.

615
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:13,300
You're doing it by showing. And the more that people see that, right, showing is always better than telling.

616
00:40:13,300 --> 00:40:24,500
So the more that people see you welcoming folks with all sorts of physical or intellectual challenges to your gym,

617
00:40:24,500 --> 00:40:33,100
the more that people see us employing, the more likely they'll be willing to do it.

618
00:40:33,100 --> 00:40:38,400
I think that's a good thing to wrap up on. John, Mark, thank you.

619
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:42,500
Really appreciate the time that you guys took today and sharing your story.

620
00:40:42,500 --> 00:40:45,800
I look forward to sharing it with our audience.

621
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:48,600
Well, you want to tell folks where can they find us?

622
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:55,200
Yes, go at John's crazy socks dot com.

623
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:57,300
John's crazy socks dot com.

624
00:40:57,300 --> 00:41:00,700
Where can they find you on TikTok? John's crazy socks as well.

625
00:41:00,700 --> 00:41:06,200
Yeah, we're on all the social media platforms.

626
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:08,600
Just look for John's crazy socks.

627
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:12,700
And if you want to get a hold of me or John, we're both on LinkedIn.

628
00:41:12,700 --> 00:41:16,000
I'm the only Mark X crooning on LinkedIn.

629
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:19,200
We don't want to be smirch the other Mark crooning.

630
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:20,400
Absolutely.

631
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:22,000
All right, John, thanks so much, man.

632
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:26,000
I appreciate you taking the time today out of your busy schedule.

633
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:26,700
Thanks, Brandon.

634
00:41:26,700 --> 00:41:27,800
You're a great entrepreneur.

635
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:30,500
I'll talk to you guys soon.

636
00:41:30,500 --> 00:41:32,800
Thank you for listening to the AdaptX Podcast.

637
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:36,900
Our effort to amplify the ideas of our guests and create more inclusive and accessible industries

638
00:41:36,900 --> 00:41:39,600
will be tied unless these episodes reach a larger audience.

639
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:44,600
If you enjoyed our discussion today, please leave us a rating or review on whichever platform you use.

640
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:48,100
And if you would like to learn more about AdaptX, the course that we teach to health and fitness

641
00:41:48,100 --> 00:41:51,200
professionals in the projects that our organization is working on,

642
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:55,800
you can subscribe to our newsletter through our website, www.adaptex.org.

643
00:41:55,800 --> 00:42:07,800
Until next Monday.