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All right, welcome to the AdaptX podcast where we have conversations with individuals who

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are building accessible businesses or products, advocating for inclusion or excelling in adaptive

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sports.

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Our intention is never to speak on behalf of those with disabilities, but give them

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a platform to share their experience and amplify their voice.

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Today we are joined by Nico Calabria from Massachusetts as well, where Arjun is.

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Are you still in mass actually?

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I know you've been traveling.

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Yeah, yeah, I'm in Concord.

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Yeah, excellent.

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I don't always love to start episodes talking about a diagnosis, but I think it's necessary

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to provide some context on the topics that we'll talk about throughout the episode.

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So you were born with congenital hemipelbectomy.

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To our listeners who might not be familiar with what that is, which I assume would be

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most, can you explain what that means?

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Sure.

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Well, yeah, first of all, thanks for having me.

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I'm happy to be here.

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Yeah, I was born without my right leg and hip.

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That's basically what it means.

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Yeah, I have no right leg whatsoever.

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And it was a surprise to my folks.

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So I was just born healthy baby, but missing an entire leg.

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So there was some creative problem solving that had to happen following that.

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Were you able to connect at any point through childhood or into adulthood with other people

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with the same condition?

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Definitely, in childhood, my folks wanted me to or gave me the opportunity to seek those

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relationships out with other people with similar diagnoses or disability.

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I didn't want it though.

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I really didn't feel comfortable with my identity as a disabled person growing up.

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The internalized ableism of the world definitely was something I was experiencing.

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So I definitely kept that part of my life at arm's length for some time, not until I

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started playing adaptive sports that I really start building those genuine relationships

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and coming to terms with that part of myself.

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That's I would imagine that's going to be an important theme that we'll talk about a

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little bit later in terms of how adaptive sports and representation are essential to

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someone's identity.

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Do you think mentally there's a difference between being born as an amputee versus acquiring

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a disability later in life?

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Yeah, for sure.

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I just woke up this way.

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This is all I've ever been, so it's just kind of who I am.

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I think that folks who go through an experience losing a limb, they understood what life was

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like on two legs prior to losing their leg.

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I think there's kind of a redefining process that takes place.

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I haven't had to redefine myself.

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I've just defined myself as someone with one leg for my whole life.

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So I think that particularly through trauma or something like that, I think there is a

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mental difference for sure as far as one's perspective on their disability and their

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identity around being a disabled person.

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I guess there's a tendency to see disability as something that's lesser than, but you've

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achieved and experienced more than a lot of people, especially at your young age.

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So I know there's a lot more success to come.

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So how did your parents influence your ambition and help you cope and navigate your disability?

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Yeah I think they had a tough love mentality and certainly looking at things through an

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asset-based lens rather than a deficit mindset.

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Yeah, you have one leg, but you're going to need to figure things out for yourself as

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we go forward.

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So I had the same list of chores as my siblings and the same kind of expectations to get things

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done even though they might have been harder or required creative problem solving to figure

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out.

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I didn't like taking out the trash.

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I walk on forearm crutches, so that job really is a pain for me.

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But I can figure it out and I can get it done.

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So I think just having high expectations and high levels of support throughout my upbringing,

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I was blessed to have parents who didn't coddle me, but also offered the support that I needed

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to be successful, advocating on my behalf for inclusion in sports, for just about anything.

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And then a tough love, kind of figure it out mindset.

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Yeah I think high expectations is essential.

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It's something that, and maybe it's perpetuated by the narrative that you often see in media

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and literature, et cetera, about disability, but kind of this hopeless narrative that requires

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someone swooping in to support and save.

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And I think the more stories like yours that get shared, the expectation that the general

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public have for disability changes.

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I think that's essential.

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I appreciate you spearheading that to some degree as well.

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But growing up, did you ever resent your disability or do you recall specific challenges that

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you faced?

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Sure.

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I mean, yeah, things are just, it's like my hands are occupied.

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I'm constantly, just the challenges of mobility and carrying a tray to the lunch table.

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Just feeling like I stand out.

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I hang out with people that are below the knee amputees, paper cuts, like we call them

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in the industry.

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It's like, what is your impairment?

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Really?

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I know it's obvious this is a disability, but compared to being on crutches and around

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some of my amputee soccer teammates, it's like, wow, you guys can wear pants and no

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one knows that you have a disability.

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I don't really have that luxury.

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So I think probably the biggest challenge was just, and remains, the feeling like I'm

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in the spotlight pretty much anywhere that I go.

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And it's just, yeah, it's interesting.

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I don't know if I'd call them, I don't know if microaggressions is the right word, but

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just the experiences that I have with people on an everyday basis in public who don't understand

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who I am and what my level of impairments are, what sort of needs I have.

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It's just frustrating.

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People apologize to me all the time, all the time, for just being nearby.

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And it's not lost on me why that's all happening.

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It all comes from a good place.

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But I think that kind of, yeah, just feeling like I stand out all the time, that remains

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exhausting, lacking anonymity.

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That part was definitely tough.

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I think also just being excluded at parts of my childhood, I don't think that really

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took place all that much, but I do have a few distinct memories of being bullied and

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not being included for having one leg and just having to deal with that too.

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It's like you're not going to be able to change anything.

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So again, asset, just think about assets.

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You can't really get bogged down in things that are out of your control.

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So yeah, just trying to continue with that, just focusing on what I can do.

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I can't control how other people think or feel about me, so I just got to be myself.

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Did you ever look into getting a prosthetic?

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Was that an option that you ever consider using a wheelchair instead of crutches?

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Yeah, so I actually, I learned to walk on a prosthetic from age three to five.

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But again, missing the hip and missing the entire leg, the prosthetic attaches around

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your waist.

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It's a bucket seat.

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It didn't offer me more mobility than crutches did.

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Crutches offer me far more mobility and independence, whereas the leg, I had a pretty severe limp

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with that leg.

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My gait was not, it was very clear that I had some sort of disability, even with the

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pants on and a prosthetic.

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But yeah, as a little kid, I just chose pretty early.

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When I got my first pair of crutches, I was like, oh, I love these.

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It really gives me the freedom of movement that the prosthetic didn't.

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It's this thing kind of weighing me down a little bit, kind of dragging it around with

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me.

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Obviously, not being able to articulate my knee or my hip, it's just every inch you go

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up in a prosthetic like that, you're going to lose efficiency.

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So yeah, I broke my arm when I was in kindergarten, was in a wheelchair, did not enjoy that.

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And had kind of avoided seated sports over the course of my life because I prefer standing

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in the stands.

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But it's been really interesting getting more involved in the disability community and seeing

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what some of the challenges for people who are wheelchair users are in the accessibility

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space.

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That's something I didn't really notice growing up, like even though I had a disability, I

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didn't really have mobility impairment or accessibility requirements.

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So that has been an interesting experience to be around more people with disabilities

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and really have an eye for accessibility at this point.

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And that's not something I grew up with necessarily, whereas someone who's a wheelchair user, I'm

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sure that's kind of front and center as they go through their day.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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You mentioned interactions and communication challenges that you encounter out in the general

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public and now you work on this project, the Bionic Project.

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So you are a teacher.

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If I understand correctly, you took a break to pursue elite sports, but now you're kind

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of back into an educator role, albeit in a slightly different context with the Bionic

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Project.

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So you guys go to schools.

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I'll let you describe it because you'll do it better, but you provide end services for

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elementary schools, middle schools on inclusion and disability.

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Yeah, okay.

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So Bionic Project, our mission is basically to fight disability bias through education

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and story and sport.

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And we go into K-12 schools, colleges, businesses, et cetera, and we do basically inclusion work

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with these places.

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Typically, yeah, starting with presentations on key terms, disability, accessibility, some

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of the things to give folks a background on the inclusion work that's going on in the

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space and how to be more inclusive.

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And then we followed up with some classroom sessions and it's kind of digging into deeper

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topics because if you take a look at disability from, there's so many perspectives you could

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approach it from.

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I'm formerly a history teacher, so I love the history of the ADA, looking at the Capitol

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Crawl, looking at just the advocacy work that was done in Northern California and how that's

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spread across the country.

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You can look at it from a STEM perspective.

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What makes for an efficient prosthetic?

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How do you design a wheelchair accessible refrigerator?

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There's lots of different ways you can take a look at the topic of disability from different

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perspectives and different subjects.

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So we like to dig into those and kind of integrate disability work into the ongoing curriculum

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when we work with these schools.

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And then we always wrap it up with playing an integrated soccer game.

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We bring a bunch of crutches.

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We let the kids play empty soccer.

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It is a pretty funny crash course altogether because it's like we don't have a lot of time

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and we end up working with hundreds of kids on a week.

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So they get their 15 minute show on crutches and it's a challenge to be sure to try to

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learn to do sport like that really quick.

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But we find that the playing together really solidifies some of the inclusion.

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It's inclusion in practice as opposed to we can come in and tell a school, you should

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be inclusive.

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But I think the experience of play is something that really connects people and kind of fights

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the fear and bias that might be underlying around disability or other things.

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So that's what the Bionic Project is doing.

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We also host inclusive road races in Harvard Square and San Francisco and looking to expand

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on that as well.

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I don't want to talk too much about just like I know I saw the dome monologue in the thing

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so I don't want to keep going but I can talk about Bionic for a while and it's been a really

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cool.

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No, I'm very interested in that so I definitely do want you to expand on it because I think

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I'm interested because I think I'm very, how do I want to say this?

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I'm very interested in why kids look at disability the way that they do and what experiences

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can possibly change that.

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I had no introduction to disability until I was in high school.

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So it wasn't until I first volunteered with Special Olympics when I was 15 that I was

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exposed to really my first person with a visible disability.

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And I can't recall what my interactions were like with people with disabilities prior to

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that but I know what they were like after and I know it completely changed my life.

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So I'm very interested in how to influence I guess the next generation to adopt more

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inclusive mindsets and look at accessibility because like you said, designing a refrigerator

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for a wheelchair user never would have crossed my mind at all through middle school, high

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school, etc. if I hadn't had those experiences.

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So I guess how are you guys approaching changing mindsets?

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How do you think you'd do so beyond that one day that you offer a clinic and then maybe

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do you have any means of gauging the like the efficacy of the inservices because that's

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another thing that I'm interested in with like the course that I teach.

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It's great if people go through the curriculum but if they don't then implement, it doesn't

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really matter, it doesn't have a lasting impact unless they actually take action with it.

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So a bunch of different things there but like I guess how do you guys measure the success

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of the clinics?

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That's a great question.

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I would say right now we're collecting qualitative data, just kind of survey feedback, open response

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on largely teacher and administrator feedback.

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But I think it's a good point that you bring up just like how do we measure the efficacy

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of the work that we're doing.

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I think one of the things that kind of got the Bionic Projects Education Branch started

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was a study that came out from Harvard that looked at basically trends in bias against

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different groups, whether it was like racial, sexual orientation, gender identity, religion,

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etc.

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Those all seem to be actually decreasing over time, kind of explicit or implicit bias around

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those things is decreasing due to the DEI work that's being done in the spaces.

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But the evidence found that disability bias was actually kind of a stubborn topic and

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doesn't seem to be changing all that much.

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And I think that just speaks to a larger point where like you said, Brendan, you didn't really

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have any experience with a disabled person until you were in high school, right?

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Or you don't recall what those were, like there probably wasn't that much representation

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or there probably wasn't a disabled person teaching in your school, who knows?

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But it kind of calls to the fact that there's a lack of work that's being done in this space

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right now or a need for the work to improve or increase.

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Because when we look at DEI, especially in the last five years, it's really been focused

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around race and gender.

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Weaving kind of this space for disability that needs to be addressed as well.

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Again, going back to that Harvard study.

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So yeah, I don't know exactly.

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We don't measure the efficacy right now.

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It's a great point for something to focus on going forward.

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I think that we approach, our approach really comes to the idea that familiarity fights

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fear.

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If you have genuine connections and the ability to ask questions to a person with a disability

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in an appropriate setting, a setting that is designed for that to happen, to take place

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for the curiosity of children to be addressed by people with disabilities, that I think

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really starts to show that just there's a connection.

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We can have a connection as people and then like, yeah, let's learn about disability together

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as well.

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Especially when you play with younger kids, it's like play is so important for building

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relationships and seeing that someone that looks different or has a physical disability

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isn't something to be afraid of.

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Because when you think about more often than not what people's experience with disability

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is, it's the child pointing or saying something loudly about a person with a disability that

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they see on the street and their parents being freaked out and embarrassed that their kid

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is asking a question and then kind of shooing them away.

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Children are very perceptive to body language, to the vibe.

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They might not be able to describe it, but they can feel it.

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If that is what your experience with disability is, you are creating fear in some ways that

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this is something that's different.

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It's not something to be talked about.

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It's taboo.

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Coming into the schools and being very open, it's like we are here to answer your questions

260
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to talk about our experiences and to play a game together.

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Gives children the space to really just ask their curiosity, address their curiosity and

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not feel like disability is something that's off topic or that's not on limits.

263
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Right?

264
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Yeah.

265
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That's something that I've mentioned in a few other episodes as well, like the tendency

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for a kid to maybe look inquisitively at a wheelchair and then a parent to be like, oh

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no, stop staring.

268
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It's just kind of reinforcing this idea.

269
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Don't interact with anyone who looks different than you.

270
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Don't interact with people with disabilities.

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You don't want to offend them.

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Then it kind of just becomes ingrained, like you said, familiarity over fear.

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I'm going to be afraid to say something to someone with a disability that my parent just

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said might be offensive, so then I just ignore the situation outright and I never kind of

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take the step to engaging with that.

276
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I wonder, I guess, I feel like the curriculum that you guys share or these inservices that

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you provide should be mandatory in every school.

278
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You spend so much time on academics and I'm not sure how much you retain, but you have

279
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an opportunity to influence the entire generation on how they see disability and what lens they

280
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go into adulthood seeing it through.

281
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I think that would have larger dividends than really most academic subjects, I guess.

282
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I'm biased in that way, obviously.

283
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I think it's really important to give kids an experience with people with disabilities.

284
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I think ideally what will happen is we don't have the stretch or the reach to be in every

285
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classroom, but it would be nice to work with a school grade every year so that kids that

286
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are coming into a middle school, into a high school, have an experience with Bionic Projects

287
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and kind of build that baseline of inclusive language, inclusive ideas, and can carry that

288
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through their education.

289
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But I agree, those types of experiences, I think, when we look back at our education,

290
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things like that typically stand out, whereas that one more day in math class or one more

291
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day in English class did that really kind of burst together.

292
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I think another important thing, Brendan, just to kind of wrap up that last topic is

293
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we want people to have familiarity and be able to interact with people with disabilities,

294
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but we also don't really want, or at least I don't really want people to be coming up

295
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to me in public spaces and constantly asking me about my disability.

296
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People with disabilities have different comfort levels of wanting to answer questions about

297
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their disability.

298
00:20:55,320 --> 00:21:03,220
I think just the constancy of having to be kind of on display for the public and need

299
00:21:03,220 --> 00:21:05,640
to be like, I want to represent people with disabilities well.

300
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:11,680
I want to be kind and answer this little kid's question and say it's okay to ask questions,

301
00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:14,760
but it's also doing that over and over and over again.

302
00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:19,800
Again, going back to trauma, if someone has lost their leg in a traumatic event, they

303
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:25,320
shouldn't need to answer questions about their disability, which could be triggering in a

304
00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:27,800
lot of ways to do that over and over and over again.

305
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:33,960
So again, creating a space that is dedicated to having children be able to ask and have

306
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:37,960
their questions answered by people with disabilities is something that... And then we talk about

307
00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:38,960
that.

308
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:42,200
It's like, is it appropriate to go ask somebody about their disability right away?

309
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:45,520
Well, maybe you should figure out what their name is first.

310
00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:48,320
Maybe you should know something else about them before you ask them really personal questions

311
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:49,720
about their body.

312
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:53,980
So that type of just background where it's like if we could get every kid to go through

313
00:21:53,980 --> 00:21:59,440
something like this, it might make a significant difference in eliminating bias.

314
00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:05,080
I mean, just as a thought experiment, you said you can't be in every classroom, and I'm kind

315
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:06,680
of the same way.

316
00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:13,280
Maybe the course that I teach can't make it to every gym, but what if the expectation

317
00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:18,640
or the ultimate goal was to be in every gym, and what if the ultimate goal was for your

318
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:21,160
curriculum to be in every school?

319
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:24,480
How do you think that would have to be delivered?

320
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:30,640
Can you guys design a curriculum in the same way that you have the common core math standards

321
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,360
and a teacher takes them and they implement it?

322
00:22:33,360 --> 00:22:38,240
Is there any... Or does it lose some of the value, I guess, if an able-bodied teacher

323
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:43,640
is the one who's delivering their curriculum instead of you going in and interacting with

324
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:47,880
the students and kind of having that representation?

325
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:52,560
I think the in-person... I think that's what's different about Bionic.

326
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:59,480
There's other places, other organizations that can provide DEI curriculum on disability,

327
00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,920
key terms, historical events.

328
00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:09,840
I think we're not really in the space of trying to have an off-the-shelf curriculum that deals

329
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:10,840
with these things.

330
00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:15,560
Move United actually has a really good adaptive sports curriculum that they're working on.

331
00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:17,800
There's some other ones that come to mind.

332
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:22,640
But I think for us, it's like Bionic, we're all formerly educators.

333
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:28,800
I taught middle school history for four years and high school history before that.

334
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,680
Some of the other folks have been health and wellness teachers that also have disabilities.

335
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:38,840
So I think kind of having teachers, trained professional teachers that have disabilities

336
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:45,840
that are now not just delivering a curriculum, but really teaching.

337
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:46,840
It's actual teaching.

338
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:54,000
I think some of the feedback that we get that changes it, or that's unique to Bionic, is

339
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:55,160
it's clear that we're educators.

340
00:23:55,160 --> 00:24:01,920
We come in and we understand how to meet children where they're at developmentally to help them

341
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:02,920
take away the learning objectives.

342
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:10,120
Whereas if it's just kind of like a curriculum you send over, that could be great in a good

343
00:24:10,120 --> 00:24:11,120
background.

344
00:24:11,120 --> 00:24:15,800
But I think the experience, particularly of playing together, makes a big difference as

345
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:20,240
far as the stickiness of education.

346
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:25,280
So much of the time we see that experiences are some of the most valuable teaching tools.

347
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:30,000
So having that experience of playing the amputee soccer with people from the national team,

348
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:31,000
people will remember that.

349
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,840
Whereas they might not with just the book curriculum.

350
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:35,840
Yeah.

351
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:40,560
I mean, I think what you retain is obviously tied to emotion as well.

352
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:45,080
And you're probably going to have a much different emotion sitting in a classroom listening than

353
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:48,960
you would out on the field playing soccer.

354
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:54,720
I don't know if this is just something that kind of popped into my head, but some communities

355
00:24:54,720 --> 00:25:02,160
and circles and some information I've read about disability simulations is somewhat frowned

356
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:03,160
upon.

357
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:07,880
I don't know if this is perfectly applicable to your environment as well, but do you think

358
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:19,680
the idea of mimicking or participating as an amputee playing soccer has any negative

359
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:20,680
repercussions?

360
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:24,360
I'm not sure I'm phrasing that well, but I think you might know what I mean.

361
00:25:24,360 --> 00:25:30,400
Sometimes there's companies that'll do a neurodivergence simulation and provide sensory overload so

362
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:35,700
you can experience what it's like to maybe have autism or wear a blindfold and experience

363
00:25:35,700 --> 00:25:37,240
what it's like to have a visual impairment.

364
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:42,520
And some people don't like those simulations, the people with the diagnoses themselves,

365
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:46,000
because it kind of makes it seem like it's transient or temporary.

366
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:51,640
Do you think there's any negative aspect of a simulation like you guys do?

367
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:52,640
It's a great question.

368
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:53,920
Really, really a great question.

369
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:57,040
And it's something that we've talked about pretty extensively.

370
00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,880
I don't know if we've come to a conclusion on it either.

371
00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:04,560
I think, yeah.

372
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:06,680
So I guess no.

373
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:10,040
I don't think that there's negatives to doing it.

374
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:13,000
Anyone can play wheelchair basketball.

375
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,600
It doesn't have to be someone who has a disability that's playing wheelchair basketball.

376
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:18,520
Everyone can play in a chair and it levels the playing field.

377
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:19,840
Same with amputee soccer.

378
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:23,240
You just pick up your other leg and you can play amputee soccer.

379
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:26,920
The challenge for the kids is not using that other leg to then kick the ball or run on.

380
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,040
And that's kind of like what we challenge them to do.

381
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:32,760
It's like, hey, look, this will be really hard for you because you've got this extra

382
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:34,560
leg that you're not going to be using.

383
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:35,560
But can you do it for 10 minutes?

384
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:37,240
Do you think you can do it for 10 minutes?

385
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:42,720
And then it's really interesting to see which kids are really willing to give that a try

386
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:46,160
and who is kind of like, well, I don't really care that much.

387
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:48,520
I just like regular soccer.

388
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:52,280
I'll just have these crutches in my hands and kind of be running around with two legs.

389
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,000
And it is interesting.

390
00:26:55,000 --> 00:27:04,360
I think, yeah, what are the benefits of a day in the life or a simulation?

391
00:27:04,360 --> 00:27:10,080
I do think, like you said, experiences and emotions that are powerful teaching tools.

392
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:14,600
And I think then the way that things are framed, and this is really what teaching is, is how

393
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,720
do you frame experiences and discuss them?

394
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,240
You want to introduce them in a way that sets the stage.

395
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:27,480
And then you want to debrief them in a way that leaves the kids going on the right track.

396
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:34,000
And if the only takeaway is, oh, how the one leg sucks, no, that's not really what we're

397
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:35,000
going for.

398
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:39,160
I think we're more like, look, amputee soccer is a sport that's being played around the

399
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:41,480
world and around the country.

400
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:42,480
It's very challenging to play.

401
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:44,320
Look at the athleticism that's involved.

402
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,600
Look at what it looks like at the highest level.

403
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:48,640
What was challenging about it?

404
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:50,640
What did you enjoy about it?

405
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:51,800
What was different than you expected?

406
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:59,040
And then being able to facilitate those discussions, I don't find that there's really a downside.

407
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:00,320
But I also get it.

408
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:08,640
I've thought about the try to navigate your school in a wheelchair or try to navigate

409
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:10,400
your school blindfolded.

410
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:17,660
I think the transient part of that, I haven't read too much about the research of why folks

411
00:28:17,660 --> 00:28:24,880
are against these simulations so much, other than I think it feels like it leaves people

412
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:28,040
with a pitiable perspective on disability.

413
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:31,720
That's one of the things I've heard at least.

414
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:32,720
But I don't know.

415
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:34,880
Yeah, I like experience in the classroom.

416
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:41,240
I'm very much trying to give kids experiences so that they can learn from them.

417
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:46,040
Whereas just telling somebody something is not going to leave them with the same impression

418
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:47,440
as having an experience.

419
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:51,520
But I can only speak for my disability and my situation.

420
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,520
I love it when my kids went around the school day with crutches for a day.

421
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:55,520
Just speak.

422
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:56,520
Yeah, it is.

423
00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:57,520
What did you need help with?

424
00:28:57,520 --> 00:28:58,520
What was hard?

425
00:28:58,520 --> 00:28:59,520
What was easy?

426
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:00,600
And then debriefing it.

427
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:05,400
Having the space to really debrief it well, I think is where things fall short.

428
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:11,400
If you just leave an experience in a vacuum, then people will form their own perspectives

429
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:13,080
and they may be positive or negative.

430
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:19,520
Whereas if you can do a little bit of framing, that might improve the takeaways.

431
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:23,960
Yeah, no, I think that's well articulated.

432
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:29,760
Like you mentioned before, the play piece is kind of the part that reinforces the ideas

433
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:33,280
that you shared in the classroom portion.

434
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:38,200
I think it's an essential part of leaving kids maybe motivated or more interested.

435
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:42,400
Because at the end of the day, I guess if you're doing a one-day clinic, the best thing

436
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:48,720
that you can do is leave your students motivated to learn more.

437
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:50,680
Play would probably allow people to do that.

438
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,080
Like you said, anyone can play wheelchair basketball.

439
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:58,120
I think it would be awesome if adaptive sports were more regularly a part of the PE curriculum.

440
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:03,320
Even if you look at the research on motor learning, you can improve specific skills

441
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:04,940
by playing with constraints.

442
00:30:04,940 --> 00:30:09,760
So whether it's playing on one foot amputee soccer or if it's shooting a basketball in

443
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:16,400
a wheelchair, that can make you better at your skill when you're not in those environments

444
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,160
and when you're just playing how you traditionally do.

445
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:20,160
So I think it's interesting.

446
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,880
I would love to see it included more in PE.

447
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:24,880
You mentioned soccer.

448
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,200
Obviously, it took us a half hour to get there.

449
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:31,080
But you are the captain of the US amputee soccer team.

450
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,200
So we'll dive into that a little bit deeper.

451
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:37,360
But in high school, you played traditional soccer, correct?

452
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:38,880
Yep.

453
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:40,600
This may sound like a foolish question, I guess.

454
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:43,980
But did you have any advantages being on crutches?

455
00:30:43,980 --> 00:30:48,280
Was there any resistance in allowing you to participate?

456
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:52,960
I don't think I had any advantages.

457
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:53,960
Other people did.

458
00:30:53,960 --> 00:31:05,360
But yeah, I remember in 2013, or maybe it was 2012 fall season, my senior year, I made

459
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:07,520
the varsity program at Concord-Carloff High School.

460
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,440
A really strong soccer program.

461
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:11,320
They actually just won a state title this year.

462
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:12,820
They've been winning state titles.

463
00:31:12,820 --> 00:31:14,600
So it's a competitive program.

464
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:18,520
And I made the program on merit at the bottom end of the team.

465
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:19,800
Didn't see much playing time.

466
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:26,540
But yeah, the way that I played, I grew up playing soccer with crutches.

467
00:31:26,540 --> 00:31:30,920
And when I was a kid, I would touch the ball with my crutches.

468
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:34,880
Definitely an advantage when I was doing that.

469
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:39,620
And it was something that people definitely looked down on.

470
00:31:39,620 --> 00:31:44,220
But then when I learned more about amputee soccer and the rules and understood that it's

471
00:31:44,220 --> 00:31:48,280
a handball to be touching the ball with your crutches on purpose, I stopped doing that

472
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:49,640
in order to prepare and train.

473
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:51,000
And I was in middle school.

474
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:56,000
So from middle school through high school, I was playing just with one foot.

475
00:31:56,000 --> 00:32:01,360
The folks who think it's an advantage to be playing soccer with one less foot, you've

476
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:03,920
done some impressive mental gymnastics.

477
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,920
But I do remember in 2012 making this team.

478
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:10,040
And I scored one goal in that season.

479
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,480
And it was one of the most beautiful goals I've ever scored.

480
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:14,280
It was off a corner kick.

481
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:15,280
It comes to the far post.

482
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:20,920
I back up off the ball and then do a really high side volley.

483
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:25,600
Just caught the ball flush, put it into the corner.

484
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:26,600
One of the best goals I've ever scored.

485
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:27,600
And it was caught on video.

486
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:31,600
And then it went viral on YouTube.

487
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:32,780
It made it onto Barstool.

488
00:32:32,780 --> 00:32:38,800
And I remember being a high school senior and then reading through the comments on that

489
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:40,600
video, which is a no-no.

490
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:47,920
If you want to see the toxicity of humankind, that's the place to go.

491
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:52,800
So I remember just seeing lots of people just saying, this is cheating.

492
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:53,800
Be a such an advantage.

493
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,720
And it's just like, all right, well, haters are going to hate.

494
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:58,520
And I'm just going to keep doing my thing.

495
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:06,440
But yeah, I remember moving to Massachusetts from Indianapolis when I was nine years old.

496
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:11,960
I remember the referees association basically saying, this is unsafe and also kind of an

497
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,560
affront to the game.

498
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:19,040
And my folks had to fight basically to have me included when I moved here.

499
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:24,480
Yeah, distinct memory of my dad standing in front of this panel of referees.

500
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:30,040
And he would pad my crutches with PVC pipe insulation.

501
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:33,760
And then he was like whacking himself in the head with it in front of his group to basically

502
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:39,320
say, look, it's safe enough for the run of play.

503
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:43,040
And their concern was, well, what if he uses it as a weapon?

504
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:46,640
And then he put on a cleat and said, well, I can come cleat you too.

505
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:48,000
And it's a weapon there.

506
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:53,320
It's about his behavior and being able to maintain his temper, which I remember him

507
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:56,080
telling me, he's like, Niko, I'm going to take your crutches away if you ever use them

508
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:57,160
as a weapon.

509
00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:00,960
Because you're just like, I was like, damn, dad, that's intense.

510
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:05,720
But yeah, definitely was excluded growing up in some ways.

511
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:12,880
And then over time, yeah, made it worth playing traditional soccer.

512
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:16,840
And then it was honestly a very interesting transition to start playing amputee soccer,

513
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:22,320
which is similar in a lot of ways and different in others.

514
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:27,680
You mentioned it came on your radar maybe around middle schools when you want to start

515
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:30,920
trending towards following the legitimate rules.

516
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:40,280
But I don't recall amputee soccer really ever being on my radar until the last few years.

517
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:45,960
So what was the landscape of amputee soccer like, I guess, 10 years ago when you were

518
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,200
in high school?

519
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:50,240
Not much of a landscape really.

520
00:34:50,240 --> 00:34:54,920
It was in, I think it was 2005 or something.

521
00:34:54,920 --> 00:35:00,000
A picture of me in the paper playing soccer with crutches was seen by the president of

522
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,840
the American Ant Soccer Association at the time, a guy named Rick Hoffman.

523
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:06,480
And he basically got in touch with my family and reached out and said, hey, did you know

524
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:11,640
that this sport exists and is being played in 20 something countries right now?

525
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:15,220
And we'd love him to come out for the US team when he turned 16.

526
00:35:15,220 --> 00:35:17,560
So then 10 years of nothing.

527
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:21,840
There's no youth clinics, there's no opportunities for development, et cetera.

528
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:26,280
At that point in time, the national team was getting together once every two years, maybe

529
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:30,000
once every four years just to go to a World Cup.

530
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:31,000
Who can make it?

531
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:32,000
Who can pay for a ticket?

532
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:35,000
Who's available to take time off work to come?

533
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:39,480
Isn't this so great that we're able to play?

534
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:46,180
And I think a big part of my story in amputee soccer has been being a part of and helping

535
00:35:46,180 --> 00:35:54,360
lead the team from that of a participation charity sport towards one of elite competition

536
00:35:54,360 --> 00:36:00,080
and professional athletes.

537
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:05,640
So yeah, between that photo being seen and playing my first match when I was 16, there

538
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,640
was nothing happens.

539
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:17,320
And then even like the last maybe from 16 to like 2014 World Cup through the 2018 World

540
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:21,080
Cup and then beyond, there wasn't that much happening.

541
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:24,320
But there is a ton happening now, which is super, super exciting.

542
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:28,920
And the reason that I left my teaching job, as you mentioned earlier, it was tough.

543
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:35,480
I was like teaching full time at a public school, coaching soccer and wrestling, running

544
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:39,920
these regional amputee soccer practices, potentially flying to different parts of the country or

545
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:42,960
around the world to play soccer a couple of times per year.

546
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:46,880
And if that didn't line up with like school vacation, then it was like, I'm already a

547
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:48,080
teacher, you get tons of time off.

548
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:52,160
But if it didn't line up, I was taking like weeks off to go play in Mexico.

549
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:59,400
And it was just way too much to try to be training full time and do all of that.

550
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:04,240
So yeah, that's why I stepped back from teaching and I'll be back to it full time.

551
00:37:04,240 --> 00:37:09,320
Once my competitive career is over.

552
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,760
But that's why Bionic has been such a fantastic place to be because it's really connecting

553
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:15,280
all of my passions and it's on a part time basis.

554
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:21,840
So it allows for flexibility and training and getting to these competitions and tournaments.

555
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:26,680
So it's been a really good bringing together of all these different things that I've been

556
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:27,680
interested in.

557
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:34,720
There's really no one that is having a greater influence on the popularity of the sport than

558
00:37:34,720 --> 00:37:35,720
you, correct?

559
00:37:35,720 --> 00:37:36,720
You can say that.

560
00:37:36,720 --> 00:37:42,560
And you don't I mean, yeah, I'm sure you won't agree to that.

561
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:48,160
But are there other people that you're working closely with that are because I mean, I see

562
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:49,160
you everywhere.

563
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:51,160
You're flying somewhere for a clinic.

564
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:55,840
You're flying somewhere for training in Colorado.

565
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:58,760
Like who else I guess is kind of spearheading this movement?

566
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:04,680
Yeah, well, I would definitely shout out my teammate and one of my best friends, Joe von

567
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:07,400
Booker, who's a striker on the national team.

568
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:10,280
And I think the two of us.

569
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:16,680
Well, we're just trying to lead by example.

570
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:21,120
Taking a step away from teaching, like that was a salary that was gone.

571
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:23,720
And something where I was like, I didn't really know how I was going to make ends meet in

572
00:38:23,720 --> 00:38:26,800
order to pursue this.

573
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:29,960
Joban was a health and wellness teacher and he did the same thing.

574
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:31,640
And we want to play professionally.

575
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:33,920
We want to play empty soccer professionally.

576
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:37,480
And essentially, we're going to fake it till we make it because right now there's not there's

577
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:40,800
no salary associated with playing this sport.

578
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:46,720
And it's not it's not like it's about money, but it is like I need to put food on the table.

579
00:38:46,720 --> 00:38:52,040
And we want to try to help bring the sport forward so the next generation of players

580
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:54,720
can pursue this as a career.

581
00:38:54,720 --> 00:38:56,640
No one's going to be rich, rich off of it.

582
00:38:56,640 --> 00:39:01,800
But at least people who want to spend their young years doing this and taking it as far

583
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:04,920
as they can will have the opportunity to do it.

584
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:11,080
So Joe von and I from the player side and then from the kind of association side, organizational

585
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:12,680
side, there's plenty of folks.

586
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:18,680
Eric Lambert, our president, James Peerquod, our treasurer, many others who I'm not mentioning

587
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:21,160
are definitely doing the work.

588
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:22,160
And it's on a volunteer basis.

589
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,840
And I think that's been one of our biggest challenges is like, we're going up against

590
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:29,560
these teams, Turkey, for example, being the best in the world.

591
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:31,160
Those guys are pros.

592
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:37,600
They train year rounds, like they get a salary to play empty soccer and you see them win

593
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:42,000
World Cups because they treat it like a profession.

594
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:44,440
I'm treating it like a profession, it's on salary.

595
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:45,520
And so is Joe von.

596
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:49,080
And we're hoping that like, over time, we're going to be able to provide more opportunities

597
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:51,320
for people to play.

598
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:55,120
And ultimately, we just need to get touches on the ball because these other places are

599
00:39:55,120 --> 00:40:00,960
playing year rounds and don't have the same kind of geographic and financial constraints

600
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:03,540
that we do to get our teams together.

601
00:40:03,540 --> 00:40:07,840
So that's our biggest challenge is figuring out like, how do we get these touches on the

602
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:08,840
ball?

603
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:09,840
Everyone's working, right?

604
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:15,920
So it's like, people can't just take a week, like I was dealing with that my old job, you

605
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:20,480
can't just take multiple weeks off to like, go do this without it being compensated for

606
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:24,040
it and losing the compensation that you're from work.

607
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:26,360
So there's a lot of challenges to being a competitive team.

608
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:33,200
And we're just trying to lead by example and make ends meet in other ways and then be training

609
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:37,080
like a professional on the rest of the time.

610
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:41,940
What have you learned from those countries like Turkey, England and France that have

611
00:40:41,940 --> 00:40:43,760
domestic leagues?

612
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:48,400
Is there anything that you can bring that they, anything that they do that you can bring

613
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:49,400
to the States?

614
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:50,400
Totally.

615
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:51,400
Yeah.

616
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,880
I mean, there's, you don't have to look far for a good model of what's successful.

617
00:40:54,880 --> 00:41:00,600
Turkey, Poland, England, Mexico, Costa Rica.

618
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:05,760
It's really the idea of you need to have regional programs that are strong and playing on a

619
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:12,680
regular basis, well funded, well run, well organized so that you can raise the expectation

620
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:14,920
for your players.

621
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:18,000
If the expectation is like, oh, like this is a whole volunteer thing.

622
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:19,360
Like we do it as best we can.

623
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:20,360
Like it's okay if you can't make it.

624
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:24,360
It's like, no, I want to, I want to fundraise and be able to stipend all the players on

625
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:25,640
the New England Revolution team.

626
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:27,320
No, you have to make it to practice.

627
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:28,800
You're being paid to like be here.

628
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:33,080
Like you need to train like, like you're a professional for this sport.

629
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:34,680
And that's on the competitive side of things, right?

630
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:40,400
There's also the grassroots participation pathways underneath that where, you know,

631
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:43,440
kids are just getting their chance to play, people who want to play on the recreational

632
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:44,440
side have an opportunity.

633
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:49,120
But for the competitive side, that's what we see being successful elsewhere is that

634
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:55,480
people make serious commitments both like time and financially towards the sport.

635
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:59,160
And then those teams competing with one another in different parts of the country are, you

636
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:03,320
know, that builds your national team player pool.

637
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:08,420
So the success we've seen between New England, New York, a few of the other startup regions

638
00:42:08,420 --> 00:42:12,680
that we have has been really exciting to see because we've been talking literally for a

639
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:15,880
decade about getting regional teams started.

640
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:17,400
And it's just a heavy lift.

641
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:18,800
Like it's hard to get people together.

642
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:25,880
It's hard to find the resources, getting the in kind donation of field time, et cetera,

643
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:26,880
to be able to play.

644
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:30,360
And then I've got dudes that are driving from Connecticut and dudes that are driving from

645
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:32,320
New Hampshire on a weeknight, right?

646
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:36,120
You might be doing like two and a half hours one way to come to a practice where six people

647
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:37,400
show up.

648
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:38,560
But the people want to play.

649
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:45,720
And the success that we're seeing on the regional level has been super exciting because it just

650
00:42:45,720 --> 00:42:47,560
goes to show people are playing now.

651
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:48,560
People are playing now.

652
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:51,400
Whereas beforehand it was like, you know, whenever we get together for a national team

653
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:57,200
camp, it's going to cost about 25, $30,000 to fly everybody in, lodge them, get field

654
00:42:57,200 --> 00:42:58,200
time.

655
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:02,400
And then you get like two and a half days on the ball twice per year.

656
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:07,200
Like that is not a winning program.

657
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:08,760
But that's all that we can do right now.

658
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:15,360
So it's been, yeah, I could talk about this for a long time, but it's been really cool

659
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:17,200
to see like the development of the league.

660
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:20,160
I've been a big part of helping back it going.

661
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:23,880
The New England team here and now these other league teams that are started in different

662
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:25,600
parts of the country are coming along.

663
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:32,680
So giving people that access on a local level has been a huge step forward for us.

664
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:36,040
The revolution have been big supporters of your program.

665
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:41,840
Is there a reason why all MLS teams aren't following suit?

666
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:43,840
I'm sure you guys are working on that.

667
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:44,840
Yeah.

668
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:45,840
Well, it's interesting.

669
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:46,840
It's a mixed bag.

670
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:51,400
MLS clubs, you know, there are their own entities and they have different priorities.

671
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:56,720
New England was just, they knew me for, they've known me for a long time and they've been,

672
00:43:56,720 --> 00:44:03,800
we've just built a really powerful, positive relationship over the last decade, really.

673
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:08,480
In other parts of the country, there are some teams that are, I think it was St. Louis that

674
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:10,560
reached out and was like, Hey, we want an amputee soccer team.

675
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:12,680
Like, what do we have to do to get an amputee soccer team?

676
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:15,920
And then we're scratching our heads like, all right, well, we don't have anybody, we

677
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:19,200
don't have any local amputees or players in that region right now.

678
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:24,520
So it's about like building it from the ground up, which we're working on, but that takes

679
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:25,520
time.

680
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:29,040
That's not just going to, a team won't spring up overnight.

681
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:33,040
And then there's other places where we have some challenges with the, just the bureaucracy

682
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:35,240
of different teams.

683
00:44:35,240 --> 00:44:41,240
Like New York has probably the best attended regional team in the United States, the most

684
00:44:41,240 --> 00:44:44,800
people playing amputee soccer in a locality.

685
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:50,440
And they're in discussions with NYCFC and New York Red Bulls and trying to take it to

686
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:53,920
the next level where the revolution, we're just very willing to do that right away.

687
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:56,920
Let us use their name and likeness.

688
00:44:56,920 --> 00:45:03,400
So it's, yeah, it's, we would ideally, a 10 year goal would be to have a competitive and

689
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:10,520
recreational team for men and women, kids and adults in all of the MLS franchise areas.

690
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:15,480
That's a huge, that's a huge goal, but incrementally, if we can get another one each year, we'll

691
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:17,560
be happy with that for sure.

692
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:18,560
Yeah.

693
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:23,900
Your endeavor to grow the sport is pretty similar to the process of scaling a business

694
00:45:23,900 --> 00:45:26,600
or growing a business.

695
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:31,160
The hope, I guess, is that initially, like when I started my gym, like you might kind

696
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:35,200
of slum it for a couple of years without much of a return and you're waiting to see where

697
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:36,200
you get traction.

698
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:38,360
You're trying to figure out what works.

699
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:44,880
What do you think is the path to profitability or sustain, like sustainability for the sport

700
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:45,880
as a whole?

701
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:52,120
Because obviously the sports that are attended the most have the largest fan bases, et cetera,

702
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:55,800
the ones that generate the most revenue and excitement.

703
00:45:55,800 --> 00:46:03,920
So do you envision that amputee soccer can get there or move in that direction?

704
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:06,360
Yeah, I hope so.

705
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:11,800
I think that amputee soccer is, it's an exciting sport.

706
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:16,000
I think that people that come to watch it, they're entertained.

707
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:21,320
They're entertained by the physicality, the speed, the skill.

708
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:28,560
I do think it is a marketable sport and something that might be able to generate viewership.

709
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:33,480
I think in the disability sports world, we're looking like it's how much viewership is really,

710
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:36,240
other than the Paralympics, do we see?

711
00:46:36,240 --> 00:46:38,080
And what is the viewership like for Paralympics?

712
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:42,200
So I think when we look around the world, Turkey, for example, they sell out stadiums

713
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:44,840
playing amputee soccer in Turkey.

714
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:49,280
Turkey's also absolutely soccer crazy, but we don't really have that in the States so

715
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:50,280
much.

716
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:58,360
I think over time, this will be a sport that is, I hope, watched by people across the United

717
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:02,320
States, streamed on your streaming sites.

718
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:07,080
I think we're a while out for that still, but that's one hope.

719
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:13,960
And then I think really the way of success for the organization is about moving from

720
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:23,640
this all volunteer nonprofit towards something that is full-time.

721
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:27,920
There's full-time staff that are working on it year-round.

722
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:32,480
Right now, we have these people who have been amazing allies and advocates for the team

723
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:38,080
and for the community, the limb loss community, limb different community, who have given decades

724
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:42,280
of service to help grow the sport from where it was when there was literally nothing going

725
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:48,120
on when I was a little kid towards to now where it's like we have a men's national team,

726
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:53,400
a women's national team, a youth program, a regional program, larger funders that are

727
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:54,560
starting to look at it.

728
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:59,280
And I think we've reached the point now where we're ready to take that step into fundraising

729
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:05,120
to pay somebody to do this work on a full-time basis.

730
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:09,080
And yeah, I think that's probably the next step for us as far as I don't know about profitability

731
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:15,080
so much as sustainability and really just trying to remove as many barriers as possible

732
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:19,920
for people to access the sport on a regular basis because right now it's too far, few

733
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:24,720
and far between to really be a competitive program.

734
00:48:24,720 --> 00:48:29,600
You mentioned barriers there and we typically ask most of our guests this at the end of

735
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:35,240
the episodes, but our efforts are more in the fitness space than the adaptive sports

736
00:48:35,240 --> 00:48:39,600
space, but I know you're well versed in the fitness world as well.

737
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:54,880
So what do you think needs to be done to make gyms more accessible or inclusive?

738
00:48:54,880 --> 00:49:04,040
Well I think for one, having physically accessible spaces is obviously a starting point.

739
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:09,560
And yeah, when I think about it, I usually break it into the physical or the technical

740
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:11,320
side and then the social side.

741
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:13,480
So technically it's like, is your gym accessible?

742
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:17,160
Are people in wheelchairs able to actually access your gym?

743
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:22,300
Are people with a variety of different disabilities able to access your gym?

744
00:49:22,300 --> 00:49:27,560
And then on the second side, the social side is like, what sorts of training have folks

745
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:30,160
gone through to work with people with disabilities?

746
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:35,480
Are they well versed in language around disability?

747
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:40,940
Are they going to be offering a welcoming place where the person with a disability is

748
00:49:40,940 --> 00:49:46,520
feeling like this is a gym where they belong as opposed to constantly being like, wow,

749
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:47,520
that person's so amazing.

750
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:50,000
It's so amazing that they're here and they want to do fitness.

751
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:55,160
If we're going on the inspiration side of things or if we're going on the pity narrative,

752
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:58,840
what is the narrative and the vibe in the gym through the trainers, through the other

753
00:49:58,840 --> 00:49:59,840
people that are there?

754
00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:02,160
How do you see multiple people with disabilities?

755
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:05,960
Are disabled people featured in the art and in the space itself?

756
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:09,920
I think there's lots of questions you can ask on the social side too, which is probably

757
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:10,920
trickier.

758
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:16,160
Accessibility, it's like, yeah, take it beyond ADA compliance and make sure that it's really

759
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:21,200
designed in a way that welcomes people with disabilities.

760
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:29,600
And then the actual social work, educating your trainers and the folks that are working

761
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:38,040
there on how to interact with people with disabilities and how to accommodate and adapt

762
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:41,560
exercises so that they can still get full body workout or whatever sort of workout they're

763
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:44,240
trying to get with the same level of expectation.

764
00:50:44,240 --> 00:50:49,560
Kind of like going back to that beginning of the conversation where we want to set high

765
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:56,000
expectations for everybody to be able to achieve those and not just set the bar really low

766
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:57,960
because somebody has a disability.

767
00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:02,640
Do you like being considered an inspiration?

768
00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:06,440
You mentioned the inspiration narrative.

769
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:11,680
I don't like being considered an inspiration because of going through my day to day.

770
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:19,080
I don't mind if people are inspired by my actual accomplishments.

771
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:24,200
I'm proud of the fact that I took a step away from financial stability essentially in the

772
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:27,800
teaching space in order to pursue this and build this game for the next generation.

773
00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:29,600
I don't think I'll reap the benefits of that.

774
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:32,400
But yeah, that's something I'm proud of.

775
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:39,320
And if that's inspiring to somebody, then that's good because I did something that hopefully

776
00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:40,800
is actually inspirational.

777
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:45,160
When I'm going through my day to day and I go to the grocery store and someone comes

778
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:49,440
up to me and says, hey, I just want you to know you're amazing, it's like, I don't really

779
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:52,560
need that.

780
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:57,640
So if the actual accomplishment of a person with a disability is inspiring, fantastic.

781
00:51:57,640 --> 00:51:58,800
You can be inspired by that.

782
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:02,000
But if it's just, again, where are the expectations?

783
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:06,280
Are we setting them super, super low for people with disabilities or are they set at a reasonable

784
00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:09,320
level?

785
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:10,320
But it is funny.

786
00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:18,760
I think going through my life and it's the constancy of it that I think is so challenging

787
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:27,120
of just being constantly complimented for just living my life.

788
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:33,080
And it's funny because it's a bias that is really coming from a place of trying to be

789
00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:36,760
positive and people want to make me feel good.

790
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:41,840
They want to give me a compliment or they want to hold the door for a long time or whatever

791
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:42,840
it is.

792
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:51,640
And it's the everyday aspect of that that becomes tiresome.

793
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:55,320
Not so much any one person saying something nice to you, but just, oh, they said something

794
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:58,120
nice and then the person after them on the hike said something nice and then the person

795
00:52:58,120 --> 00:53:01,280
after them, wow, look at you out here.

796
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:03,600
It's like, thanks, man.

797
00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:05,600
That made me feel really good.

798
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:10,080
And I think a lot of times people, they don't understand that it's like, how am I experiencing

799
00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:11,080
this?

800
00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:13,760
You were feeling good about yourself because you've complimented somebody with a disability

801
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:16,920
and you've seen that that's something that you should be doing.

802
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:21,920
For me, I was just complimented by the last three people behind you that said something

803
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:23,300
similar to me.

804
00:53:23,300 --> 00:53:26,880
And then my girlfriend's like, is this always how it is?

805
00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:30,360
It's like, yeah, this is how it is.

806
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:37,720
Yeah, that's an interesting point that they're complimenting you to feel better about themselves,

807
00:53:37,720 --> 00:53:41,700
not necessarily to make you feel better.

808
00:53:41,700 --> 00:53:48,000
But that's probably something that they don't even introspectively identify as they do that.

809
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:50,880
You mentioned the Bionic Project hosted 5K.

810
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:52,520
A team from my gym will be there.

811
00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:54,240
That's usually in April, correct?

812
00:53:54,240 --> 00:53:55,240
Yep.

813
00:53:55,240 --> 00:53:58,240
So it'll be the last Sunday in April.

814
00:53:58,240 --> 00:54:00,960
I'll pull up the date for you.

815
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:01,960
In Harvard Square.

816
00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:05,120
Hopefully we get a little better weather than last year.

817
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:06,120
Totally.

818
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:09,760
Yeah, this year was pretty, this last year was pretty cold.

819
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:19,080
Yeah, I believe it is the, yeah, so it's April 28th, Sunday, April 28th at 11 a.m.

820
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:20,080
Awesome.

821
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:25,400
Yeah, so we'll have a cohort of people from our gym there running it.

822
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:30,480
Bionic Project, if there's anyone in the audience that works within a school district, the K

823
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:35,200
through 12 school districts, and is interested in bringing the clinic to them, you are just

824
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:36,600
offering them in Massachusetts.

825
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:39,360
Are you moving a little bit outside?

826
00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:40,960
I think we're expanding.

827
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:45,120
We have a pretty good base going in San Francisco as well.

828
00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:51,320
But I'd say like broader New England area, including New York, I think is places we're

829
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:54,440
looking to go and willing to drive to.

830
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:57,640
The other thing I'd mentioned, Brendan, is that we're looking for educators as well.

831
00:54:57,640 --> 00:55:04,400
So people with disabilities who are interested in getting involved, being involved in the

832
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:10,640
school, the schoolwork, as well as just any of the sporting events, as we expand, where

833
00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:12,120
I can't be in all these schools.

834
00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:14,880
We also don't necessarily just want to do amputee soccer.

835
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:20,200
We're looking to expand the types of disability sports that we offer to these different districts

836
00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:21,200
and businesses.

837
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:26,400
So anyone that wants to get involved, I'd love to get in touch with you and share some

838
00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:27,400
more information.

839
00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:30,400
Yeah, hopefully we can facilitate some of that as well.

840
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:36,800
I know I talked to one of my members as well to see if he was interested in contributing

841
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:37,960
on the education side.

842
00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:41,120
So hopefully we can facilitate some more connections there.

843
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:42,680
But Nico, thank you.

844
00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:45,480
It's been a pleasure to get to know you over the last year.

845
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:50,480
And it has been, you might not want to be called inspirational, but it has been inspiring

846
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:52,120
to watch what you've done over the last year.

847
00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:54,040
I've followed it closely on social media.

848
00:55:54,040 --> 00:55:56,960
And it seems like you're always on the go.

849
00:55:56,960 --> 00:56:03,640
And like I mentioned earlier, you've accomplished and you seem to experience more than most,

850
00:56:03,640 --> 00:56:08,280
not in spite of your disability, but as you are.

851
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:12,720
And I think it is a great thing to depict to the greater population.

852
00:56:12,720 --> 00:56:15,120
So like you mentioned, we can elevate expectations.

853
00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:17,320
So thank you for doing the work that you do.

854
00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:18,320
Yeah, thanks, Brendan.

855
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:20,320
Yeah, it's been great getting to know you too.

856
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:25,080
And I appreciate everything you said and the work that you're doing for the community.

857
00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:32,880
We need more allies and more folks that are advocating for accessibility in tons of different

858
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:33,880
ways in different spaces.

859
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:36,880
So I really appreciate the work that you're doing with AdaptX.

860
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:40,800
And I'm excited to continue to be a part of it in whatever way I can be.

861
00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:43,680
But yeah, thank you for all that.

862
00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:44,680
Awesome.

863
00:56:44,680 --> 00:56:50,400
We'll link Bionic Project 5K as well as the educational endeavor in the show notes.

864
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:53,960
We'll include some USMPT soccer stuff as well.

865
00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:56,840
But I would strongly encourage anyone who's listening to watch it.

866
00:56:56,840 --> 00:57:02,320
It really is equally, if not as, more exciting than traditional soccer as well.

867
00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:07,320
So thanks.