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All right, welcome to the AdaptX podcast where we have conversations with individuals

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who are building accessible businesses or products advocating for inclusion or excelling

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in adaptive sports.

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Our intention is to speak on behalf of those with disabilities, but amplify their voice

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and help you create more inclusive environments.

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Today we are joined by Mackenzie Edinger.

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In March of 2022, at only 23 years old, Mackenzie opened her business, Inclusion Coffee Company.

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She graduated from the University of Wisconsin-Whitewater with a degree in early childhood and special

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education and through her involvement with organizations like Best Buddies, formulated

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the idea for a business that would emphasize hiring a diverse workforce, providing meaningful

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employment to individuals with disabilities.

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Hopefully that did it justice, but Mackenzie, thanks for joining me today to talk about

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your business.

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Of course.

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So I heard about your company.

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It might have been through LinkedIn, might have been through social media in some regard

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and reached out last week.

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We hadn't interacted prior to that.

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But your story is in many ways similar to mine.

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I opened my first business, an inclusive fitness center when I was 23 after graduating with

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a degree in special education, but deciding that I wanted to pursue something outside

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of the classroom.

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So I guess the first thing that kind of came to mind was at what point did you decide that

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you didn't want to necessarily teach that you want to do something else?

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I think it was actually through my master's program.

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So after I got a degree in special ed, I definitely still wanted to do something with that diverse

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population.

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So I went and got my master's in administration, thinking maybe one day I'll be a special ed

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director or something along those lines.

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And while doing that, I actually saw a coffee shop on the East Coast that does very similar

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things to what we do.

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And just thinking about that, I was like, there's nothing in our community that has

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anything that is doing something like that.

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So really it was a quick process.

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I was like, we can start something up like this.

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There's coffee shops in the area.

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There's a lot of people I know from high school that would love to work there.

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So it was kind of just a quick, let's pull this together and see what we can do.

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What was your first exposure to inclusion or disabilities?

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It would have been in high school.

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I joined a club called best buddies where you kind of partner with an individual with

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a disability.

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Take them shopping to the mall, kind of whatever they want to do and just indulge them in everyday

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life.

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Yeah.

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And so are you still involved or acquainted with your best buddy?

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We do a lot of, we get a lot of best buddies programs from the area.

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So from local schools, they'll come in and have class there just for a daily field trip.

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So I guess I'm not really part of it, but we do see a lot of programs come in.

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For me, I think there was at some point during my student teaching where like the rigidity

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of special education deterred is a little too strong of a word, but it wasn't as appealing

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to me as maybe having some more flexibility to like build relationships with the individuals

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and kind of get them in an environment outside of this like rigid and flexible ABA type of

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environment.

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So that's where I like want to combine my interest in fitness and my interest in inclusion

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to like come up with my gym.

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And there wasn't really a model to follow.

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So I was curious if like you mentioned the restaurant out on the East coast, were you

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able to learn anything from them or did they just kind of give you the foresight that it

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might be possible?

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Yeah.

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So I didn't visit them before I opened.

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I kind of just saw it online, did a little bit of research.

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They actually do, there's a little bit differently.

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So there's one manager and then everyone else that is working has a disability.

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So there, a lot of their stuff is very easy to navigate.

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A lot of push buttons, a lot of just easier equipment where we have the equipment that's

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at just any ordinary coffee shop and they're learning how to use that.

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So they're building their skillset, learning how to steam milk, learning how to pour the

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espresso, learning how to take orders and write on cups.

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So we kind of took it one step further.

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We have a ton of food.

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They learn how to make food.

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So just one step further than they did, theirs was kind of like the stepping stone of how

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do we start and then what can we build off of that?

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You always think it was going to be a coffee shop when you had like your vision of creating

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an inclusive business?

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I think I only went that route because I saw other places doing coffee shops.

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I don't drink coffee.

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I don't like coffee.

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I don't know.

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So I think it was just, they did a coffee shop.

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They made it work, kind of why switch it.

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But there's a lot of, a ton of other businesses that you could totally open doing the same

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thing.

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I mean, even you doing it, having a gym, a lot of our employees go to a gym around here

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too that I don't know if it's like based on, or like their trainers only focus on that

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or there's just a few of them that go there and they use the same trainer.

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I'm not really sure.

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But I do know that a lot of them go to the same place.

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I met someone last week.

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I was giving a presentation to a nonprofit and there was a student from university of

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Wisconsin there for the event.

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And she said that they have a adaptive fitness minor at the university, which was the first

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time I had heard of that.

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So that's pretty cool.

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She said she was minoring in that.

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So we connected and talked about like kind of how I opened my gym and stuff like that.

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But I think for me, it was a lot of like learning on the fly.

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Did you come from any restaurant experience or?

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Yeah, I worked in restaurants.

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I had no business background.

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I didn't take any business classes.

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Nothing like that.

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So a lot of it was kind of like you said on the fly, a lot of Google, a lot of using people

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that you know that either own businesses or have worked in the business industry, kind

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of where we are.

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So yeah, a lot of it was learning on the fly for sure.

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For me, sometimes it felt like almost an advantage because I was so fixated on being concerned

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about not knowing what I was doing that I dedicated so much time, I guess, to learning.

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So I wonder if there is some degree of like where being naive is beneficial because you're

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like dedicated to figuring out a solution instead of approaching it through a lens of

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thinking that you already have all the answers.

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Right.

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So you're just reading a textbook.

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I mean, I always say that you don't learn everything that you need to know in school.

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So reading a textbook doesn't always help.

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So just kind of learning it as you go.

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And I mean, there's going to be mistakes, but I think it's better that way.

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Are there a lot of coffee shops and kind of like competitors in your area?

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I always say we don't really have competitors because no one really does the same thing

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that we do in our area.

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There's a few in Wisconsin that do have similar missions to us.

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Nothing super close.

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I mean, everything's like over an hour away.

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But there's quite a few coffee shops in our area.

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Yeah.

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But I always say like if people want to go to Starbucks, they're going to go to Starbucks.

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If they want to come to inclusion, they're going to come to inclusion.

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Can you like separate the mission?

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Is there like, can you think of a way that you've differentiated yourself beyond the

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unique aspect of employing people with disabilities?

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Do you have any other like competitive advantage or do you think people support it because of

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that mission?

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I think we have more food than a lot of our ones in the area.

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I mean, we do full breakfast and lunch.

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We have take and make pizzas, which no one else has.

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But I think just our food, our food menu is far exceeds anyone else.

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That's anywhere close to us.

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What have what's been the process of like hiring someone with a disability for you?

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Do you guys have a formal interview process or do you partner with local organizations?

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We do an interview.

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It's not anything formal or long or in depth.

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It's kind of with the individual than the parent.

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It's just kind of asking like, have you had a job?

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What do you like?

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What have you done at that job?

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Kind of seeing like their skills, kind of what they think they're really good at and

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what they might need help on if they need any additional support.

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But we don't have I mean, it kind of just depends.

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We have so many different and unique individuals that we kind of make their day to day like

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special to them.

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So we make make sure that they're doing what they want to do when they're there and not

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putting them too far out of their comfort zone, but still making them try try new things.

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Can you identify some of the like relative strengths that your employees with disabilities

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have that maybe their non disabled peers don't or where you think they kind of yeah, the

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advantages?

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I think a lot of like memorization, a lot of our staff with disabilities really like

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focusing on the people that they see every day, get excited when they come in.

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They think it's funny when they can like memorize their order and then they'll say it back to

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them because they usually get the same thing.

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And just their friendliness.

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I mean, we all have bad days, but I swear they're always happy and they want they want

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to be there.

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They're proud to be there.

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So I think that's something to that just makes my day probably your day to just happier and

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exciting.

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Yeah, I can envision that they probably are more committed than many people that are working

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a job like a coffee shop.

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Like they probably value that role more than some people would.

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Yeah, I always say like they're super proud when they walk in the door.

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A lot of our parents are the ones that get them there.

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So we can't really say like they get the self there on time, but it is I mean, they still

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need to get themselves up and ready and to the door and get in the car.

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So it's still still on them to be ready for work on time and get there on time.

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If you don't mind me asking, how is the business structured?

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Is it a like a for profit entity or is it a nonprofit?

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We are for profit.

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Yeah, that's I like that a lot because it's actually one of the things that like I've

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written about in the past is how a lot of organizations that support people with disabilities

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are always nonprofits, so people just assume that it's like a lesser service or they just

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assume that all individuals with disabilities have to get this like charity type of mindset

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dedicated.

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So it's cool to see when businesses are for profits and how they're demonstrating why

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inclusion is a beneficial aspect of their business and not just like an aspect of good

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will.

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So that's really great to see.

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Are there and it's something that I'm not too familiar with, but I know a lot of young

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adults with disabilities, there's specific like social security like thresholds for how

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much they can work and still receive their benefits.

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Is that something that you guys have kind of run into like people are only able to work

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a certain number of hours?

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Yeah, we're actually running into that right now.

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I mean, a lot of our staff doesn't work a ton of hours.

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It's usually like five to 10 a week maybe.

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But some have second jobs.

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And so they, I mean, I don't really deal with that.

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I say that's kind of like, I mean, I don't see any of their benefits or their social

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security that they already have.

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So that's kind of on the parent, but I mean, we pay them what we pay them, which is actually

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above minimum wage in our state.

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Everyone starts at that.

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And then it is a lot when it comes to social security and benefits.

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I mean, they're getting less money from the government because they are making more money,

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which I don't understand the whole thing.

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I think it's kind of a backwards process.

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And they get tips.

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So then that's also reflected on what they make.

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And it just kind of messes everything up.

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And I don't know, I think it just kind of backwards.

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Yeah, there is some, like I mentioned, I'm not too well versed in all the intricacies

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of it, but I know there is some legislation that's being pushed to kind of raise that

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because it like disincentivizes people with disabilities from working.

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So it's like you said, a little backwards in that regard.

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But there's also not a lot of opportunities.

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There's not many people doing what you're doing.

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So there is that necessity for people with disabilities to be supported with that supplementary

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income.

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But it would be great to get to the point where more businesses are like yours.

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Yeah.

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And some of like the parent, I mean, it depends on the family too.

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The individual I'm thinking of has two jobs.

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Parents are both still working.

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Another employee that I have, his parents are retired.

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So he can make as much money as he likes.

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Another employee, his dad is also disabled.

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So he's on his dad's disability.

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So he could also make as much money.

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So it's kind of just how your family is too.

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And if your parents are older, if they're younger, and if they're still working, it

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just, it all just is so individualized.

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What are you hoping that the next few years looks like for the business or in general?

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We're hoping to have another one.

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We're looking, we've been talking to someone in our state actually to franchise.

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So that's kind of our first go at it.

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We definitely want to spread inclusion and spread the mission and kind of get the message

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out there more than it is.

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So having more inclusions, more businesses that run with individuals with disabilities,

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the better.

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Yeah.

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Do you think it's a pretty repeatable model?

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Because that's one of the, like, we were kind of at a similar juxtaposition with my gym

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where like we would love to have another location because we've identified that there's not

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a lot of gyms dedicated for people with disabilities to be included amongst their mainstream peers.

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But like taking that leap to opening a second location and all the uncertainties that come

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with it if you're not able to like be on site all the time, finding the right people to

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run it, like a coffee shop is definitely a little different because there's probably

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more clear systems in terms of what equipment to buy and what process to follow.

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But I guess what would be your biggest concerns with opening a second location?

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I think we started out by saying I was going to open a second one and then we were going

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to franchise off the second one.

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And I kind of backtracked that and I was like, well, why don't we just help someone else

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open one that's technically a franchise that I really don't need to, I mean, I can't put

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myself and you can't put yourself in two places at once.

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So kind of letting someone else run it off your model I think would be easier just in

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like the early stages.

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Obviously they would be our first one.

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So I would help them more and definitely make an effort to make it up there.

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I mean, it's not close to the area, but just make it up there a few times a month to help

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and see what's going on, make sure everything's kind of, I guess, up to your standards and

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what you kind of started.

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So yeah, absolutely.

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I think that's where like you probably care so much about your business.

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I care so much about mine and we're concerned about the quality that it's going to be delivered

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with.

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So for me, that's one of the biggest hurdles to get over is just, I guess, letting go of

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some of that responsibility and giving it to someone else.

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Yeah, which is hard.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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What do you think it's a question that we ask most of the guests and sometimes it's

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related to fitness, but maybe we can make it more geared towards like business.

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What do you think employers could do to be more inclusive or what do you think businesses

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could do to be more inclusive?

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I don't necessarily think that businesses say, we don't hire people with disabilities.

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I don't think that's ever like a clear rule or whatever you want to call it, but I think

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it's just important to have, I don't know, diverse abilities in your workplace.

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They teach you things just like you can teach them.

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I mean, they come in with things that I've never heard of before and it's accurate and

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it's, I don't know, I just feel like kind of going out of that comfort zone and letting

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people that you wouldn't think could do the job.

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I don't know.

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Just like giving them a chance and letting them kind of show you what skills they do

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have.

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Yeah, I think like to you and I, it seems obvious, but if people haven't had that prior

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exposure to it, I think sometimes the fear of being alone.

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They might be scared.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So that's where it's like, I think it's important to have businesses like yours demonstrating

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the value of it and the delivery of it.

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So hopefully more companies like yours.

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Have you seen maybe in different industries, other people that kind of employ a lot of

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clients with disabilities or not?

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When we first opened, I always said like, they're not just going to be washing tables

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and cleaning the bathrooms and doing all that.

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Cause that's what you do see.

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I mean, you see them at restaurants, bussing tables, you see them begging groceries, which

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is great.

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I mean, some of them really do like that.

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I mean, we have an employee that loves begging groceries at Piggly Wiggly.

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Like that's his favorite thing to do outside of inclusion.

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But I just think that there's so much more that they can learn and they're kind of like

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stuck in that I feel comfortable here.

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So I'm going to stay doing this.

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Yeah.

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I don't know.

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I just, I mean, yeah, I see them at pick and save.

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I see them at restaurants.

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I mean, I would say that's probably it.

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Yeah, finding ways, I guess, to leverage their strengths.

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I think again, maybe it's just an aspect of not being exposed to people with disabilities.

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You just assume that every characteristic or every skill that they possess is a deficit.

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Whereas as you've experienced and as I've experienced, they do have relative strengths

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in some areas that make them great at certain roles.

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And it's just making sure that you place them in those roles.

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Exactly.

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Well, Mackenzie, it was good to hear about the business.

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We look forward to seeing if you get the second location up and running.

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If people want to find you on Instagram online, is there a handle that you guys use?

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Yeah.

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Facebook, we have a page, Inclusion Coffee Company.

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Instagram is the same, Inclusion Coffee Company.

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And then our website is inclusioncoffeecompany.com.

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So you can see all our menus and our merch and everything online and check us out.

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Awesome.

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And maybe someone who listens will be interested in maybe opening a franchise outside of us

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so you can go nationwide.

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So all right, Mackenzie, thanks again for joining me.

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Yeah, thank you.

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Thank you for listening to the AdaptX Podcast.

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Our effort to amplify the ideas of our guests and create more inclusive and accessible industries

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is futile unless these episodes reach a larger audience.

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If you enjoyed our discussion today, please leave us a rating or review on whichever platform

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you use.

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And if you would like to learn more about AdaptX, the course that we teach to health

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Until next Monday.