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All right. Welcome to the AdaptX podcast where we have discussions with individuals

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who are building inclusive and accessible businesses, advocating for inclusion or

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excelling in adaptive sports. Our intention is never to speak on behalf of those with

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disabilities, but rather amplify their ideas and share their stories so you can make a more

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accessible world. Today I'm joined by Tony Jacobsen, who is many things to many people,

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motivational speaker, a fitness professional author, and I'm sure more that will unpack in

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this episode. We're excited to bring his incredible story of overcoming the fears and barriers of

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his diagnosis to you today. So Tony, thank you for joining us. Yeah, Brendan, thank you so much

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for having me. I'm excited to be here on the AdaptX podcast. Maybe you can start by sharing

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with our listeners a bit how you got into the career that you're currently in, or maybe take

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us back to maybe even before you were a professional, what things influenced the career path that you're

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now on? Yeah, I really got into being a coach, certified personal trainer, adaptive fitness coach,

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I really got through got to this through my own journey of having a disability and learning how

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to embrace it to get healthier and understanding what that what that process took. So yeah, let

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me go back my story. I was born with osteogenesis imperfecta, which is basically brittle bones

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disease. We call it OI. So I'll refer to it as OI going forward. That's a lot easier for for me to

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say and for others to understand. So OI, I have type one, which is a mild form of it, but I've

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still fractured 75 ish times around there had 12 surgeries, I have steel rods in my legs. And you

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know, my journey started when I was younger, I was breaking all the time. And I used a wheelchair

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for most of my childhood and then ended up on crutches as I got a little stronger in my teens.

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And then finally took my first unassisted steps when I was in my early 20s when I was the 24

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years old. So through that journey, and breaking all the time, you know, I was left with a lot of

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mental barriers, being careful was the biggest one. And so I spent, you know, after I started

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walking, I spent the next 20 years not being physical at all. And that led to me being very

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unhealthy. So because of the disability, because of my mental thoughts around the disability,

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I was stopped. And, and it led to me being very unhealthy. And I had a huge health scare when I

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was 42 years old, where I was told I might have had a heart attack. And so I was overweight, I was

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overweight, I was barely walking, I was in physical pain every day. And then once I had that

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diagnosis come through of, you know, I could have had a look like I had a heart attack, I didn't,

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by the way, thank goodness, but there was indications of it. After that happened, I realized

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in my own life that I needed to do something different. And I really had to figure out how to

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get and be healthy. Because I didn't want to I didn't want to die, basically, you know, and I

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didn't want those barriers to be there anymore. So I did the work of what it took to get over all that.

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And once I did, you know, once I got through all that, and I started doing things that I never

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thought possible for myself, I realized that I could help others do it. So I wrote my book,

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I started I got my certification as a trainer, I was like, what can I do to help others that have

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my disability, and have other disabilities have other limited mobility and have these same sort

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of barriers? How can I help other people get through this too? So that has led all the way

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up to today where now I'm certified, I have my online fitness program, I do one on one coaching,

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virtual all around the world, in person. And, and also just in addition to that, just getting out

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and encouraging and motivating people with disabilities. So even if I don't train you,

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I'm always encouraging people with disabilities to think differently. And to think about how,

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how, excuse me, think about how to get moving in the right way. So that's the, the beginning

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and the end of it right there is of my story of how I got to where I am today.

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Yeah, I love that. I mean, the goal ultimately with anything that's revolving around inclusive

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fitness or adaptive fitness is to move people closer to the recommended levels of daily

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physical activity, which is typically not always met not only by people with disabilities, but

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maybe exacerbated by those with disabilities, they face obviously more barriers to being active.

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Before we dive into your adaptive fitness platform, which I know we'll touch upon in your book,

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what was essential for you transitioning from mobility with crutches to independently walking?

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What was that rehabilitation process or strengthening process like?

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Yeah, for me, it was just time, first of all, because with OI, after puberty, it starts to,

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the fractures become a little less. So fortunate, fortunate for me, and with my type being not so

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severe, I was able to just start to get stronger, which led me to the crutches and spending more

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time on the crutches. And then for me personally, to make that big jump was a surgery where I had

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because I had rods in my legs from an early age. And so in my gosh, it must have been in high school

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years, I had broken my right femur that had a rod in it. And that rod got bent when I had that

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fracture. So it was bent at like a almost 30 degree angle. And so they didn't adjust it at that time.

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And it was left. And so the next few years I spent legs were very much different in length,

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I had to use the crutches because I just couldn't walk right. And so when I turned 24, that's when

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the doctor was like, you know what, we got to replace this rod, it's time to do it. And so when

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I had that surgery, made my legs the same length. And basically, that was the point at which the

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doctor was like, okay, it's time to get on your feet and start walking because now you have the

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mobility and the functionality to be able to do it. So that's what happened for me. And it was,

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you know, slow going at the beginning, I was still on and off the crutches. But again, I got stronger.

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And I did a little bit of rehab at that time, like physical, physical therapy, but it wasn't too much.

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At least it got me to the point of just understanding how to walk because I just

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didn't know how to do it at that point. Without the crutches. So it was just a natural kind of

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thing of me getting stronger just in my legs in general. And having that final surgery that was

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like, okay, now your legs are the same length. This is a huge deal. Yeah. Or did you find any

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ways to be active when you were a youth, either during your time in a wheelchair or when you

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transitioned into crutches? Did you find sports or fitness that was that was suitable for you?

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Yeah, I personally did wheelchair basketball and wheelchair tennis. Those were like the two

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kind of sports that I was involved with. But again, it was very much, you know,

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trying not to break bones. So no matter what I did, even even doing those things,

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there was still a lot of fear. So I did them to an extent. But I did them to what was,

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you know, what I felt was good for myself. So it kept me moving. You know, and I would do some like

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when I was very young, I was like, I participated in Special Olympics, and I did wheelchair racing

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and stuff of that nature. But then later there was wheelchair basketball and wheelchair tennis

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as well. So I would do those activities. But again, it was very minimal just because I was

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always being careful and trying not to hurt myself. Yeah, knowing what you do now about adaptive

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adaptive fitness, and maybe the literature on OI has expanded or improved over the last 15, 20 years.

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Would you have done anything different? Would you have tried to go to a gym when you were younger?

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Was strength training safe, but you just didn't really know how to approach it?

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Yeah, that was a huge deal. And that that's almost part of why I'm doing what I'm doing now.

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Because even you know, 10 years ago, when I started getting into my own fitness journey,

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and I started doing research, there was nobody talking about it in the OI community.

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And so I was struggling to find people that were even trying to have the conversation

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within OI. So I could imagine back then, when I was younger, because that was like when I was 42.

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So I can imagine when if I was when I was 24 ish in my early 20s. First of all, I didn't know

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anybody with OI. And any of the research, there was barely anything. Nobody was talking about

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how fitness would would help. Now, my doctor, he would encourage me to move. He encouraged me to

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get up as much as possible and get moving. Again, I struggled with the fear of it. So I didn't listen

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as much as I should have. But, you know, I do know that if there would have been something there

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to tell me, look, if you just do some fitness, that's proper for you, and you do it in the

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right way, then you can succeed and you can get stronger. I just didn't have that resource. So

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that was another big push for me doing what I do and writing my book and getting it out there,

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because I do feel and it is important. And now it's great, because now since I've been talking

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about it, the conversation has been becoming a conversation within my community. And that's

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really important. And that's a big accomplishment for me. Yeah, I mean, I don't know much about the

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OI literature, but I would imagine that the orthopedic benefits of strength training in

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terms of improving bone health and bone strength, like, I wonder if that would carry over to someone

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with OI in a similar way. Maybe during that portion of puberty, when you're beginning to become

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stronger, and like you said, your motor skills and your strength is improving, I wonder if

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supplementing it with some strength training that's kind of catered to that population and

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the level you're at would be would like expedite those improvements even further. Yeah, I absolutely

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agree. I think it would. And I think there's just not enough. The conversation just starting

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around it. And I hope that they start to do more actual research around that. That would be great,

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because I absolutely agree. And I do think that it would help because we know you need to do

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resistance training to strengthen bone, like we know that those things work in a regular bone,

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right? So then when you're talking about an OI bone, now we're not sure just because of the

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science behind OI. Yes, we can develop more bone, but it's just not good bone, right? That's kind

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of what OI is in basic terms. So but you know what, why don't we we don't have research around it.

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So we can't say definitively that it doesn't work. All I know is for me, in my 40s, by doing what I

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did, you know, I know that I've gotten stronger, I know that I've gained balance, I know that I've

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gained strength. Can I say my bones are stronger? Maybe not necessarily, because I haven't like

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stayed up on my bone density, but my bone density hasn't decreased. So like, I know, personally,

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I have some indicators that show that this, this does work. But I would love love love and perhaps,

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you know, in the future, it will become a conversation and through research and, you know,

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some dedicated, some dedicated research around that age range would be great. Yeah, it would be super

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interesting to see some longitudinal stuff, because I mean, in the older population, bone density

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decreases. So the fact that you're maintaining in of itself is a win. Because we know that as people

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get older, bone density decreases. So it's sometimes when we're communicating with our older clients,

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progress isn't as fast as the younger ones. But we're typically trying to remind them that

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not making progress is not regressing. And that in of itself is a win. Because as you get older,

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you lose muscle mass and bone density. And so if we can prevent that, it's essential to longevity.

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So yeah, it would be super cool to see if OI responds in any specific way to strength training.

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I would imagine with it being the potential to be a low impact exercise that it might not be,

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quote unquote, quite as dangerous as like a sport like wheelchair basketball, because you don't have

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the impact in the in the collision that you might have with a with a competitive sport. So yeah,

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absolutely. What was the influence for your book? Or kind of what was that process? Like when did

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you decide that you wanted to write a book? And how did you go about doing so?

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Doing so? Well, I was always told you should write a book like just from the people around me,

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just seeing what I was doing in life and whatnot. And, you know, I just never had the

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the impetus or the through line for what it would be. I always thought, oh, well,

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I'll write a memoir when I'm older. So that sort of kind of idea came. But after I went through my

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personal transformation, my physical transformation, and what all of that brought to me in my life,

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it finally kind of fell into place where it was like, you know what, I know what story I need to

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tell now. I know how I can use this book to tell my story and help other people. Like there was like

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all of the pieces of the puzzle of what I feel is the importance of a book. They all came together,

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and it was just time for me to do it. So I was able to really focus on the physical aspects of

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my life. That's kind of the through line of my book, Disable Your Disability. So it's like,

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I was able to look at that in the first half is my story. And then the second half is a how to.

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And I really just kind of share like, these are the tactics, these are the strategies that you can

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use to do what I did. So that's kind of how the book came to be.

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How long did that process take? I guess I mean, obviously, it's a lifelong process,

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because you don't have a story without experiencing all that. But maybe from like the time that you

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sat down to write something to the time where it was released, do you recall?

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Yeah, I kind of what that process was like. Yeah, it was about it was about a four year

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process from, hey, you really got to do this. And then the last six months prior is when it

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really came to be. I mean, I sat down and churned this thing out in about four or five months,

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because it was really focused. And I knew exactly what I wanted to say. So it was,

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it was pretty quick when it came down to it, because it was very clear of what the message

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was going to be in the book. So now I totally understand I'm on the other side of writing a

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book. And I know the process. But for anyone out there who and I always encourage people that

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have disabilities have a story to tell, I encourage you to share your stories, like really,

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even if it's not in a book, like, you know, share your story about what you've been going through,

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because we need to get the word out there and, and let more people know. But for me, it was very

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clear. Once I decided this is the theme of the book, this is what I want to share. So it was a

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pretty quick process. Yeah, that's essentially the goal of this podcast for me to have conversations

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that challenge my biases teach me something new, and then hopefully listeners form their own take

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away or they find ways to apply it to their own life. We've just have like kind of a running

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Google Doc me and my team of just like, things that stick out after these conversations or during

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these conversations, takeaways that people can apply across different industries. So maybe it

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becomes sort of some sort of book after we have dozens of these conversations, maybe it just

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becomes blog posts, but it's like sharing people's experiences and lift experiences is essential to

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me and in the same way that, like you said, it took you four years, but really only four months

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of like targeted work. It took me six to 12 months maybe to write my course, but it took

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six years prior to that of different experiences, different trial and error to come to the

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conclusions that we have and then share those through the course. So it's like maybe a book's

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only a one year process, but it's a lifetime process, I guess. Yeah, absolutely. Did COVID

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influence your direction in terms of like how you disseminate content, whether it's the online

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fitness stuff? Did that transition that a lot of people started offering remote services kind of

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benefit you in any way, I guess? It benefited me simply because that was the direction I was

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going to begin with. I realized that, especially with my disability, we're very few and far between

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since it's very rare. So when I was starting to reach out online is where I really went in head

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first to touch base with my community. And so everyone was online. So I started building my

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business online. And when I built my online, the online fitness club, I like to call it a club

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because it's a lot more fun than a platform. So my fitness club is a lot more fun. And when I started

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building that, I'm like, no, this is the way I want to deliver it. Even in today's day and age,

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now that people are starting to get back together, I'm still going to do it this way. And I still

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want to continue this method because I want to reach people around the world. So not only with

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my disability, it's very few and far between. And it's great because I do have members on there from

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all around the world, Europe, India, United States, Australia. So it's great because I can, you know,

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train and coach people from around the world through the platform. And, you know, it's great,

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I can go out and do this in person too. But, you know, and I have, and I have had a few clients

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come through. But for the most part, my business plan is to keep it online, figure out the best

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ways to deliver it that way so that I can reach more people and, you know, reach them where they're

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at. Because that's another piece of making sure it's accessible, making sure that, you know,

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anybody can get to this because there's people in rural parts of the country that can't even get to,

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you know, maybe their town where they can find training or get somebody. So hey, you can connect

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with me on the internet. I know you've got an internet connection, so let's do it.

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Yeah, yeah, that global impact is incredible. Congratulations on that. Yeah, definitely.

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There's obviously huge benefits of being online to my experience running a brick and mortar facility.

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It's expensive. It's obviously a huge piece and the internet not only reduces that barrier to

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accessibility, but it's also it can be a central part of a business model on a kind of a low cost

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option to reach a lot of people. You mentioned not having a lot of connections with other

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individuals with OI growing up. But what is that representation like now that you've connected

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with others through, I assume, Facebook is a strong way to find those groups. But

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what have you learned through, I guess, connecting with other individuals with OI?

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Yeah, that's the biggest, the biggest thing I've learned is to make that connection. So

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it was when I was growing up, I knew one other person that had OI. She had a more severe

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version of it. And she was the only one and her and I thought we were the only two people in the

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world with OI. So we, you know, spent our childhood connected and then we lost contact.

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And but she was the only person that I really knew that had a wide then there were a few people

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popped up like in the celebrity world, very few one or two. And I was like, oh, that's cool.

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And then the movie Unbreakable came out. Right. And that was like a big thing, kind of an introduction

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to Osteogenesis Imperfecta. He did his best. It was OK. You know, it was an OK introduction. But

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you know, it made me think, oh, yeah, other people should know more about this and think about it.

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So that kind of started my started my journey into learning a little bit more. But then when I,

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you know, start after I wrote the book and I was like, I really need to connect with my community.

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Even before I wrote the book, I wanted to connect with the community going to Facebook.

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That was the first spot. And then finding the organizations that were dealing with it.

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So there's one big one in the United States, another one in Europe, a couple others. But that

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was another piece of it, too, is reaching out to them and trying to connect to the community.

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So doing the social reaching out to the organizations was very important. Now I know

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a ton of people with OI. And it's great because now it's even helped me to learn more about

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how I can help the community and learning more about because for me, when I started even training

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was like, OK, I'm looking for OIers that are like me, that have type one, maybe have the same amount

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of breaks, kind of are in the same abilities level or spectrum. But now, since I've been

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training and working with all different types of OI, it's been great because now I can help

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a more wide a wider variety of people. And so being connected, learning more. I mean,

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I'm meeting new people every single day and they're coming and checking out the platform.

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So it's great. It's just been a so expansive for me even because then it pushes me to learn even

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more about what I'm working on when it comes to training somebody with the why or any, you know,

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limited mobility sort of situation. Yeah. When we talk to people that want to start more

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inclusive and accessible programs and they ask how you go about getting those first clients,

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it's not a very it's not the answer they want, but it's usually find the organizations that

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already serve these populations, find ways to connect with them, offer your services, establish

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some validity in that way, establish some social proof and demonstrate that you can help them.

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And then it kind of just grows organically through that. So there's no easy marketing scheme that

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gets it. Sometimes it's just direct outreach to the people you want to serve and a genuine interest

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in helping them and demonstrating how you can help them, which it sounds like you've done pretty

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successfully. Yeah, that's the that's the biggest thing is connecting to the community and, and just

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starting, you just got to get, you know, the one, the two, and then really it's word of mouth at

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that point, because then people say, oh, no, he really does know what he's doing, or she really

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knows what what she's doing. And then the word of mouth will help to start to spread that.

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How often or how long have you been doing motivational or educational speaking?

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That came really in before the book, I was doing some motivational speaking, because I've been a

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DJ for many years. And so through the DJing, I had a few opportunities, because a few of my friends

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were they knew about my disability, I was very much not about my disability before, when I was

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unhealthy, and I was really in that denial phase of like, I'm not disabled, I don't think about it,

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it's not part of me, etc, etc. So I was very much in that phase. But still, some people knew about

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the fact that I had a disability, and they were encouraged and inspired by the fact that I was

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successful as a DJ and doing that. So I got a few talks through that. And I realized, oh, wow, you

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know, I love speaking in general, I love performing, you know, I'm a DJ, and I'm a rapper,

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I'm an MC, I've done like hip hop music, all this stuff throughout my life. So through that, I love

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being in front of crowds, I love entertaining, I love motivating and encouraging. So as I started

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to get those talks through that method, that led me down the path of now, okay, well, how can I do

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more of this? And then, again, through my whole transformation, writing the book and understanding,

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wow, I have a bigger message that really can impact people in a big way, in a big way, not

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only people with disabilities, but also just the, you know, the public in general. So that's how

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really it pushed me, it pushed me to say, hey, where can I get out and share this message of

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resilience, of overcoming of thinking differently, thinking positive, you know, so that's kind of how

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that was formed. And then when the book came out, I mean, it really was, it's in support of the book,

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you know, it's like getting out there and sharing the message to let people know, hey, I got this

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book, come check it out. This is a short talk I'm going to do that's talking about, you know, my

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story, but you know, come and read the book and you're going to get more. And that's how it's been

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progressing. You mentioned at the first part of that comment there that you were kind of in denial

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about your disability. It's a conversation that we've had with most of our guests, but how do you

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feel about the term disabled or how would you like people to refer to you? Not that they necessarily

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have to say, oh, that's Tony, he's disabled, but like, does that term offend you in any way? Do you

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prefer something else? What do you think about like person first language, like individual with

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disability versus disabled individual? Do you have any opinions on that?

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Do you have any opinions on terminology? Yeah, my opinion is it's all semantics and that stuff doesn't matter.

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So, you know, I think a lot of people use that as a as a I want to say as a crutch,

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right? They use it maybe as an excuse. And I've come up against some people like that,

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because I'll use both and I'll interchange them. And, you know, you can call me whatever you want.

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It doesn't it doesn't change how I feel about myself or what I'm going to accomplish in this

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world. And that's what I try to encourage other people with disabilities to think about is like,

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you know, it's all semantics, man. It's just words. So you can put whatever meaning to that word that

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you want. But, you know, at the end of the day, by trying to change the way somebody refers to you,

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what is that going to do? Are you accomplishing what you need to accomplish in life just on your

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own? Because guess what? Everyone's going to have their opinion, and everyone's going to have the

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way they want to they want to refer to you. So don't worry about that stuff. For me, you know,

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I will say it if I need to say it. If I feel that it's important to that immediate conversation,

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then I'll talk about it. But otherwise, it is what it is. And, you know, it really took me a lot of

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years to get to that to understand. But it was a lot of introspection and understanding that I needed

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to do some personal growth through that, because I was in denial for many years. And that denial just

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came from fear and from me not understanding myself and me not having confidence in who I was,

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etc, etc. So I would I remember having those conversations of saying, Hey, don't call me that.

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Hey, don't do this. Don't. But that didn't matter. What I needed to change was what was inside of me

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and how I felt I presented to the world. So once I gained that confidence, once I understood that

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it's all based on who I am as a person, all of that stuff kind of went to the wayside. So

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it's all semantics. Don't worry about what we're calling it in the in the words and stuff. That

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stuff is just wasting our energy. And where we could be focusing that on more important things

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to actually help not only ourselves progress, but our community progress.

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Very eloquently said. I think communication, though, is still a big barrier. One of our things

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is to try to like normalize the inclusion of people with disabilities in our fitness environment

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on a small scale, but hopefully it becomes normalized on a larger macro scale. But I think

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oftentimes, people don't have exposure to disabilities. And they don't have these

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conversations, these candid conversations that you and I are having. So they don't know what to say.

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So instead, they just don't say anything at all. So they avoid interacting with you because

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they don't want to offend you. Did you have experiences growing up that kind of resembled

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that? And how do you think we get to a point where younger individuals are more comfortable

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interacting with people with disabilities? Yeah, I think it's just having those conversations.

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And so it's for me and what I'm seeing and what I've been through, it really is a change for

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the people with disabilities. So a lot of people with disabilities feel like the outside society

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needs to change. And that is true. There's a lot of conversation that's happening over there.

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But guess what? We are half of that conversation too. So there is an aura that we put out there.

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Are we approachable? Do people feel comfortable talking with us? Do they feel comfortable asking

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questions? Because I see a lot of people that will get mad and they get angry at certain things. And

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then that just turns people off. So it's like a 50-50 conversation. And that's how I see it.

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So there has to be a little give and take on both sides. People have to be willing to ask questions.

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People have to be willing to accept that they're being asked questions. And so I think that both

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sides need to work on it. And again, it's all individual and depending on the situation. But

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at those moments, people that don't have disabilities, look, you got to feel comfortable.

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You got to feel comfortable in your situation and being able to talk about it. People with

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disabilities, same thing. You got to feel comfortable. You got to feel okay to answer questions,

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to talk a little bit more about what you got going on. And I think if we do more of that,

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if we think of it more of a 50-50 conversation, man, that could help so much. And just like,

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for lack of better term, just cool out. Just like cool out. Just have fun. If people just realize

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life isn't that serious, we can all just have some fun, put a smile on our face, be happy,

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put some more joy in life. These types of things will get easier for people as well.

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Yeah. And that's why we say at the beginning of the podcast, I don't intend to speak on

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anyone's behalf, but hearing you say that, I'm not just looking to confirm my biases, but I do

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think it's a two-way street. And the people at our gym with disabilities, they're wonderful and

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they're easily approachable. And our members interact with them. And I think that has kind

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of lowered the barrier for a lot of our members in terms of how they see disability. So I think if

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there's more environments like that, where people with or without disabilities seamlessly coexist,

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then more people are kind of exposed to this idea that there's a lot more similarities and

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differences. So that's where it's one of my driving incentives behind maybe trying to have

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more gyms is to create more environments like this or to educate fitness professionals so they

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can take these principles and apply them in their gym so they can start to create those communities.

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Cause I don't think those conversations happen naturally unless they're kind of facilitated in

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some way where people are sharing like a common experience or a common interest, and in this case,

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it being fitness. So I think fitness, not to oversell the importance of it, but I think it

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can be a great vehicle to introduce people with and without disabilities and kind of demonstrate

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how they're similar in many ways. Yeah. And if I just can comment on that, I think you're

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absolutely right for like a gym facility, for any facility really, if you think about someone's

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putting a gym together and then if you bring up the idea of someone with a disability coming to

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the gym, a lot of people get surprised, right? They're like, oh, I didn't think about that.

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And it's like, I agree with you. We need to have that conversation kind of normalized where it's

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like, well, just always think about that. Just always think about like, well, how can someone

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with a, with who's using a wheelchair use this piece of equipment? Like that should always just

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be in the conversation as opposed to when it comes up, it's a surprise for people where it's like,

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oh, wow, I didn't think about accessibility. Well, you should always be thinking about

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accessibility no matter what, because even if it's not meaning someone that's using a wheelchair,

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it could be someone using a mobility aid. Oh, can someone that uses crutches get up here or uses a

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cane or a walker or whatever they're needing at that moment? Can they get in here to utilize this?

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And that's another piece of it is a lot of people that are in the fitness industry, don't think

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people with disabilities can work out or should work out or, you know, they have this weird kind

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of thought about it. It's like, no, no, no, we do, we need it in our lives. It's actually going to

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improve no matter what the disability is or what the impairment is. There's always great stuff that

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comes from fitness. So again, yeah, I love what you're doing because it's kind of normalizing

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this conversation and bringing it to the, to the forefront where we're like, we're just thinking

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about it all the time. It's just part of the conversation. Yeah. Accessibility benefits

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everyone. Like you said, it might be the thought process might be for someone in a wheelchair,

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but maybe someone after a knee replacement who needs a little more space to get onto a piece of

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equipment or move around. Or if I'm guiding someone with a visual impairment through the gym, we need

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a little, a wider walkway. So it's like, you can go through these scenarios when you're planning out

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the layout of your gym and you can think to yourself, can someone who can't see access

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everything, can someone who can't hear access all the programming, can someone who can't walk access

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this. So it's just a very simple thought exercise. And some of these discussions that I've had with

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like accessibility experts, the one that we're releasing, I guess, when this one comes out,

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it will have been the previous week, but Brad McAnnell was talking about how you don't have to

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be, you don't have to serve everyone, but you have to take small steps towards trying to accommodate

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as many people as possible. As a business, you're not going to be able to cater to every person in

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the world. And that's fine. But as long as you kind of are making those steps to making it more

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accessible and inclusive, and when the issues come up or when the accessibility barriers come up,

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having a response and addressing those problems is important. So one other question that we've

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asked some of our guests is kind of related to the inspiration narrative that we sometimes see

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with disability where everything that someone with a disability does has to be perceived and

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publicized as inspirational. Do you have any thoughts on that as a whole or are you familiar

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with that kind of concept or that fallacy? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I've got a somewhat different

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view on this because I feel that inspiration is good. And I think everybody should view inspiration

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as a good thing. And so unfortunately, in my community and the disability community,

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you know, there's been this tag put on called inspiration porn. And it's like,

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it just rubs me the wrong way every time I hear that because you're putting a negative on a

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positive. It's like toxic positivity. We're tagging a negative to something that's actually really,

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really good for people. So when it comes to the inspiration talk, I try to encourage people to

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be an inspiration. I say, look, you want to be an inspiration for people. It doesn't matter if you

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it doesn't matter if you do something very small and it inspires somebody. That's actually a really

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good thing. Because just in the world in general, we want to shine positivity out to people. So if

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I can encourage someone and inspire someone by doing something that seems many menial in my life,

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that's actually a pretty cool thing, because now they're going to make a positive change in their

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life that's then going to affect someone in their life. And then that's going to affect someone and

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it's a ripple effect. So that's kind of number one. Number two is this. Look, I don't get to

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choose who I inspire. None of us do. We don't get to choose who we inspire. So it's not really up

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to us. We just kind of got to live our lives, do our things. And, you know, we do whoever,

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whoever comes up to me and trust. There's been some people I inspire and some people that I

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don't inspire. And that's just how it goes. I don't get to choose and say, Hey, you know what,

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I'm going to go over to this guy today and I'm going to inspire him. I'm going to go to this

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lady today and I'm going to inspire her. That's not up to me. It's really up to the individual

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who's watching the things that I do. And so it's it's really great when you have that perspective,

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because then you just kind of live your life. You spread positivity, people get to, you know,

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make positive changes in their life and they get to they get to be inspired wherever you

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from whatever you're doing, be it menial, be it a big task, major, minor, whatever it is,

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as long as I'm inspiring someone to make a positive change in their life, that's my focus.

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That's my goal. And so I always encourage people to kind of leave that conversation alone. I hear

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it all the time. They don't want to be an inspiration. They don't want to. And I'm like,

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man, you're missing out on a great opportunity. You're missing out on a great opportunity to

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make a positive change in someone's life for doing nothing. You even say it's nothing.

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So that's kind of my take on it. I know it's really controversial just kind of in my in my

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community, but I don't care because I want people to think differently. I mean, it doesn't have to

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necessarily be controversial, but I think like what you mentioned with it, as long as it inspires

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action is an essential piece to it. When you see just people on Facebook, oh, like it's almost

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belittling to some people, I guess. I think some people feel offended when they're just trying to

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do tasks that maybe for at one point in their life was really simple. And now it's harder for

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them because of a disability or an acquired disability. I think sometimes people get

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frustrated when someone will comment on that because they remember how easy it used to be

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and they don't want to like kind of be belittled or reminded of that. So I think being inspirational,

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as long as it's like inspiring people to actually take change when it's belittling or if it's

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lowering the expectation that people have for individuals with disabilities, if it's kind of

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perpetuating this narrative that they're less than, then that's when I guess it might become

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a little bit of an issue. But obviously I just listen to how you all describe it and how our

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various guests describe it. And it might be similar to kind of the terminology. It's a case by case

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basis where some people want to be inspirational and others don't, but it's just, it's an interesting

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conversation to have. I don't think we're required to be an inspiration, but I just want everybody to

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understand that if you have that possibility, then be the inspiration for somebody. Yeah.

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And it's probably not, there's probably some parallels between that and like the motivational

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speaking you do. Your goal with the motivational speaking is to inspire people to overcome whatever

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barriers that they face. So I would assume there's a lot more carryover between with that

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occupation or with that portion of your job, the speaking. Yeah, definitely.

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What is, this is a question that we asked most of the guests towards the end of the episodes,

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but what do you think needs to be done maybe for the industry as a whole or to make fitness

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more accessible for people with intellectual and physical disabilities?

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Yeah, I think it kind of touches on what we talked about earlier, where it's like just making that

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part of the conversation. So people that are within the fitness industry, just understanding

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that that population does exist, that people on all levels of ability should have access to

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this, to fitness, to better nutrition, to movement, you know, proper, I call it proper movement.

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I call it our personal peak performance. Everybody has their personal peak performance. So I think

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within the fitness industry, it's really important for people to understand that it's not just,

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you know, looking for or helping just people that, you know, already have something, full mobility,

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and you're going to take them to the next level. Of course, you're going to help people that way,

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but I think just opening up and keeping that conversation of like, there's all abilities,

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there's all levels of ability within fitness. It's not like you have to be at a certain

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level to then start getting involved in fitness, fitness and movement, and all of all of that,

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which we, you know, help people with. It starts at any level, it starts at the levels of someone who

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barely moves, you know, and like, we have to remember that I think a lot of people

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within the industry think, well, you know, people have to be at a certain level.

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And then on the other side, people with disabilities, it's like, you have to, you know,

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you don't have to, you don't have to be any at any specific level to start. Right now is the right

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time to start. So I think if we, you know, keep that conversation going, I think will help to

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improve the conversation and improve the environment again, where it creates that

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comfortability for people to feel like, oh, yeah, I can start now. And then someone on the fitness

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side to be like, oh, yeah, I can help somebody that's at this level. I think we can meet in the

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middle if we do that. Yeah, there's always an entry point to exercise. And it's our responsibility to

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help people like help people find that so they can be safe, they can be confident, they can feel

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comfortable with what they're working on and being comfortably challenged over time to continue to

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make improvements. What do you hope the next five years looks like for you? Or maybe even the next

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00:41:12,720 --> 00:41:19,680
year? Man, the next year, I want to keep growing Unbreakable Body. That's the online fitness club,

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I want to keep growing that. I want to keep getting out and, you know, spreading the message

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of encouragement to get more people moving. I personally, I'm writing my second book now. So

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that's going to be coming out in 2024. And I'm going to be working on some other programs that

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are bigger and helping other communities, other disabled communities. I hope to see, you know,

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this conversation not be something that we have to focus on in five years, right? Like, it's just

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going to be part of part of the canon that is the fitness environment and the fitness industry,

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where it's like, yeah, this is just part of it. In five years, we should be able to do that. That's

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my hope is that in five years, it's just part of the conversation. But you know, I'm going to keep

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encouraging and helping as many people as I can along the way, through my books, through my talks,

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through my online programs, through anywhere where I can get in connection with people to help uplift

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them and encourage them. Yeah, well, Tony will definitely let us know if there's any ways that

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we can kind of amplify those projects that you're working on. We'll include a link to the book in

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our next newsletter that goes out in a couple Wednesdays. The podcast will be released in the

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next week or so to hopefully spread. You had a lot of beautiful comments in this episode. I really

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appreciated a lot of what you said and definitely appreciate the time that you took today to talk

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with me. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate this and I love what you're doing.

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However, I can support you too. I love what you're doing. I love the platform.

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Thank you for listening to the AdaptX podcast. Our effort to amplify the ideas of our guests

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and create more inclusive and accessible industries is futile unless these episodes reach a larger

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audience. If you enjoyed our discussion today, please leave us a rating or review on whichever

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platform you use. And if you would like to learn more about AdaptX, the course that we teach to

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health and fitness professionals and the projects that our organization is working on, you can

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subscribe to our newsletter through our website www.adaptx.org. Until next Monday.