All right, welcome to the AdaptX podcast where we have discussions with people who are building
inclusive businesses, advocating for inclusion, or excelling in adaptive sports. Our intention is
never to speak on behalf of those with disabilities, but amplify their voice and share their journey
with you so you can be inspired and motivated to take on your own. Today I'm joined by Sam Schaefer,
an athlete, coach, and an advocate. Malways has been to start these discussions focusing exclusively
on the disability because I don't want to imply that it's the main characteristic about the individual,
but I think we're going to have a really cool story to share with you today. But maybe we can
start before that. Maybe your childhood, athletic background, academic experience, career aspirations,
so maybe we can start with before your amputation. So where do you grow up? What were you passionate
about? Yeah, so I grew up just south of St. Louis, Missouri, about a 25-minute drive away from the
city. And I was definitely like, I was a hockey nut, but sports in general. If I were to sum up what
I wanted to be, like growing up, I wanted to be a pro. If it was hockey season, I wanted to be a hockey
player, I wanted to be a baseball player, I wanted to be a... So I kind of played a little bit of,
I didn't play, I wouldn't say everything, but I played all the normal sports. I played baseball,
soccer, basketball, through grade school, middle school, and in high school, I ended up mostly
just focusing on soccer. That didn't end up really going anywhere. But from there, that's whenever I
went to college and I made the decision to join the military after a few semesters.
And I realized, because I realized that that was not taking me a direction that I wanted to go,
just felt like every semester was further away from something that I was going to be happy doing.
And I had an older brother that was in the military. He had just come back from a deployment. My dad and
I drove out to see him as he came back. And there was just like this sense of like, this is where
I'm actually supposed to be. Awesome. So you enlisted in the military at 19, 20 years old?
Yeah. So I was 19. Like I said, I was like three semesters in the college. I did the normal
high school right into college. I went to the University of Missouri. And it was fun. It just,
like I said, I didn't, I was just getting this feeling that I wasn't going a direction that I
was going to be happy with. And you mentioned in some of the posts that I was reading and stuff
that I was reading about you, a specific incident during training that seemed to cause the cascaded
symptoms. Yeah. So I was in the combat control training pipeline. So it's a special operations
career field. And I was, we were just on a run. We were running back from the pool. I ended up
clipping a curb. And as I land, I land on the outside of my foot, it rolls, rolls my ankle so
bad. Like I remember the sensation of my heel touching my ankle, like the inside of my heel
touched the inside of my ankle. And my infinite wisdom, I got up and continued to finish the run.
It was about another mile. And that is what led to complex regional pain syndrome. There was some
other like more physical injuries, like there was a fracture, there was definitely ligaments,
ligament issues, but it led to a nerve condition called complex regional pain syndrome. That injury
occurred September 6th of 2011. And is that, is that diagnosis that's well understood or did you
have any kind of pushback from medical professionals in terms of how they were diagnosing it?
It is not well understood. The name is pretty ambiguous, complex regional pain syndrome. That
kind of says it all. Everybody gets it, like nobody gets it the exact same. The treatments are very,
I don't want to say like difficult, but like, it's just like it's almost random on who,
on who is successful with treatment and who is not like I was completely treatment resistant.
The interesting part is that it typically is pretty challenging to get that diagnosis.
I had the fortunate unfortunate scenario where I walk in to the clinic. I don't really know what's
going on to be honest. I'm 20 years old. All I'm thinking is how do I get back to training? I might
be 21 at this point. And they start doing some testing and the woman goes, have you, oh, so
you, looks like you've, so have you already started your med board? Which is a medical discharge,
basically. And at this point, I'm thinking I'm getting back into training. And the doctor tells
me he's like, this is the most clear cut case of complex regional pain syndrome I've ever seen
in my whole life. I'm really sorry. At this point, I hadn't even entertained the idea that this was
going to force my removal from the program much less the military. Yeah, so that so when you're
kind of first met with that news, probably not knowing much about CRPS in general. What was the
next step? PT, OT? Yeah, so they had me in physical therapy. And part of why I got sent to that doctor
was they had me doing ankle sprain physical therapy for like six months straight. And then accused me
of lying when I said that my pain was still was where it was. I was like, no, I don't want to be
here. I want to get back to training. I was like, I'm not here because I think it's a good time.
And finally, somebody finally just was like, you know what, maybe what if he's not lying?
Like, unfortunately, that was the culture. I had to prove that I wasn't lying about the pain that
I was in. And they sent me to the they did these tests and they were just like, yeah, sorry.
Yeah, we've heard that from like a couple other guests that had these complex conditions that
are a little more ambiguous. And it just seems so bizarre to me. Like, why would someone who's
highly motivated, who really is passionate about what they want to do, like, I guess,
relegate themselves to just like therapy, like, why would anyone lie about that?
Yeah, it's like, it's not like the paychecks that good. Like, we did the mistake of figuring
out our per hour one time and we shouldn't have done that. That was depressing.
What was so so you were discharged from the military? And did you find another passion
or kind of how did your career proceed from there? Yeah, so I was very fortunately I was
introduced to CrossFit in February of 2010. This is just before it started to like really get the
big momentum. When I first started CrossFit, there wasn't a shoe for it. Everybody had like four pairs
of shoes in their backs. They didn't quite know what to go with. And I mean, you had people running
in vibram five fingers, you know, all these, all these like wild things. We're just trying stuff.
And so I knew I remember thinking before I left, I was like, man, when I get out,
I bet I'd like to coach this. This would probably be a fun thing to coach.
So I kind of kept learning about it. And I kept, you know, that that had piqued my interest very
early. And from there, and then I went when I got discharged, that's what I went back to.
My discharge took a long time. I like said, I was six months into the injury.
Whenever I got diagnosed, it was 15 months after my accident that I actually got discharged. I had
there was a couple people that fought that didn't want to do it for some reason. I don't know whatever
their personal stuff was. And so I got into there. I used part of my severance check to pay for my
CrossFit level one. And I began began that process. And within a year, I was coaching CrossFit or
CrossFit style classes, wherever I could just starting to get that experience. Still really
with a with a very poor understanding of what was actually upcoming for me, you know, I'm still
now only a couple years into this, what became a nine year journey. I didn't really understand.
I was young enough that I was definitely in denial. I was just trying to like desperately
cling for everything I could to get because I got told you'll never lift again. You can't be
as an operator. You can't be in the, you know, use in the Air Force, you will never run again.
You will not, you know, you can't play soccer. You can't like, that's all I got. I got this huge
list of can't ever's. And I'm just sitting there like, I can't like, it hurts when I do nothing.
I'm going to go do this thing I enjoy, because it's still going to hurt. And through that,
I started to learn that strength was an asset that if I train my function well enough, that even
though that function was deteriorating, if I could continue to raise the level of what 100% was,
if I was only going to get 20% that day, well, I'd rather have 20% of a bigger set of capacities
than 20% of a smaller capacity. So it kind of became that journey. And again, some of it was
very hard headed. Go figure a 23, 24 year old single guy who's just like desperate to be like,
who wants to get back to life was a little hard headed in that pursuit. But like,
that's kind of where all that started. And then like you said, diving into the coaching realm,
learning, learning, learning. And that was what I've done as a profession actually ever since
that I was coaching for years with CRPS, some of that time on a cane and on a forearm crutch. And
then when I got back to walking, I went back to coaching. Yeah, I saw in one of your posts,
you said something along the lines of that walking makes the pain worse, but not more so
than losing your fitness. So it's like, I mean, we all have, I guess, like challenges, whether
you're able bodied, adaptive, etc. And I know some of our clients that are in like a rehabilitative
state, maybe post stroke or post injury, like sometimes get frustrated at the work they have
to put in. But and I don't mean to demean that in any way. But at the same time, I'm like,
I have to work to maintain my fitness. So like our goals, like the goalpost might always be moving.
But that doesn't mean you should stop, I guess, moving towards it. But I think like your stuff
with CrossFit, did you ever, was it ever hard to convince clients of kind of your expertise if
you're coaching with like a visible physical assistance like your cane? Did anyone ever question
your kind of authority in that regard? You know, I had been coaching in that same room for so many
years before the cane became necessary. That it was, I actually felt it more than they did.
They knew my expertise. They I've been working and helping these people for years. Some of them
over five years, I've coaching and helping them with pro helping them progress.
That like it was more of a it was more of a more in my head than it was anywhere else. Like, I
assumed that I was going to get pushback and feedback. And I never did at least not to my face.
I never did. No one ever said, Well, I don't want to go to his class because of
because of everyone's like, because I was always I still do I'm still doing classes and courses
and learning things like, and that was partly what I was known for is that like Sam is still
learning Sam is still working on building. He knows a lot. And he is he worked and everybody
knew how hard I worked at my coaching. I have said over and over, I am 10 times the coach that I
am the athlete. And most of my athletics are just simple R and D for my coaching. Yeah,
that's still the case. I mean, I think some of the the information that I came across that you had
shared on training strategies for amputees is definitely the best that I've seen. I haven't
seen a ton of solid resources, but even like the way that you describe like equal weight
distribution between feet, like all that stuff and underneath the prosthetic to improve that
like those queuing and those external cues and the strategies and the modifications, I think are
second to none for for that space. But so you started CrossFit 1112 years ago, adaptive division,
adaptive CrossFit probably wasn't really a thing. Obviously, it's gained a lot more steam in the
recent years. But were yeah, were there any other like adaptive athletes? Would you even were even
considering yourself an adaptive athlete at that time? Nope, was completely unfamiliar with the
term. I didn't know that I fit into that that category as somebody was CRPS. Yeah. I didn't
like it was an because like it's an invisible injury. So nobody came and talked to me about it.
So like I was like completely unaware that any of that existed until my amputation.
I had done a little bit like so once I knew that I was for sure pursuing amputation,
I reached out to a local organization called DASA and they had a sled hockey program. And so I
started playing sled hockey because that allowed me to get one I didn't realize that I actually did
qualify for because that's when I learned that I actually already was an adaptive athlete by
classification with CRPS. But I was going into that room with the idea of like,
I can spend time with amputees and learn from amputees about being about what that means.
Like, because like you said, there really aren't a lot of resources. Like that's part of been my
motivation for putting out the information that I'm doing is very simply like this is what I was,
I googled and couldn't find when I was going through the process a few years ago. Yeah,
I thought that was an interesting, I thought that was an interesting timeline because when I was
kind of looking back at your stuff and trying to read about you, I saw sled hockey stuff before
your amputation. And then so so that was kind of an interesting perspective. Like, were you,
were you working towards amputation? Like, did you have that in your mind? And you were like,
I want to kind of build up the skills now beforehand?
Yeah, so I knew that that's the direction I was pursuing. I was, I got a lot of resistance from
the VA. They didn't, I fought with the VA for nine months before my to get my amputation.
So that was in that that was also the window where I started playing sled hockey. Again, part of it
was to get acclimated to the environment. And like, again, I wanted to learn everything I could.
I was like, I had this unique opportunity to begin life as an amputee on purpose.
Yeah. To begin that chapter, not as an accident. And I wanted to I was like, how I don't know,
dumb is the wrong word. But how poorly how what a poor use of my my time and resources,
if I don't go out and try to actually gain some perspective and understand
everything I can before it happens. What was the pushback from the VA or what's what's the hesitation?
Um, they just didn't want to do it. Like, she was like, well, this seems, I don't know,
I'm uncomfortable with this. And I'm like, well, I'm uncomfortable with this.
Yeah, you're like, like, they're like, you're perfectly healthy. I was like, I am not perfectly
healthy. I was like, I'm in massive pain. I haven't slept in nine years. Like, like they know all
this stuff. But like, there really isn't there wasn't a way to treat. Like I had I had failed
pretty well every treatment. Um, at in the first 18 months. And the only I had so they
whenever I got out and I was at the VA in the VA system, most of my treat, most of the treatments
to try were already we had already tried and seeing no success with. So that I got asked if I
want to invite you in permanently. And I expressed concerns with with that. I was like, I don't think
that that's a wise strategy. I was like, we know how that story goes. You give me opiates. I develop
a habit. I either keep getting more opiates, or you become a or you start, or you get into heroin.
That's that that is like the story. Like that's there's so many vets with that story.
And I told and I expressed that concern. I was like, I don't think this is a good strategy.
And they looked me dead in the eye and go, Oh, so the pain must not be that bad.
Yeah, that's yeah, that's that's crazy resistance. So it's like that that was the start of my
relationship with the VA in 2012 2013. And it never really recovered. Like there was that there
was just not really anything to do. And I wasn't going to go ask for help. And all that we're
going to say was, well, which pill do you want? Which I was like, again, this is that there's
that there's no end in sight. I didn't know that amputation was even an option at that for a long
time. And so like we didn't have a good relationship or we didn't have a relationship, I should say.
So when I came to to seek out amputation, there was like, well, you like I had someone tell me
you haven't even tried to get better yet. And I've done nothing but bust my but bust my butt for
nine years at this point, gone through like more pain than I ever could have fat, I could fathom.
And it was kept getting worse. Like I had to be like, if I couldn't squat 400 pounds at a time,
my walking really got bad. Like I had to be that strong just to function.
Yeah, that's that's another interesting thing. I think, well, as in response to come the beginning
of that conversation, not that CRPS isn't a disability, but we do hear from some of our
guests in terms of like, how much their life improved after their disability. So if we consider
amputation, like your main, your main physical disability, not this year, PS wasn't, but like
people talking about how much better their life gets after their disability. So in your case,
there's really no comparison. No, not even close. Like this was, they saw amputation as a failure.
And I saw getting out of pain as a success. Yeah, absolutely. And I was willing to throw any punch
that I could throw for that success. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's hard now that like you have a
visible disability. I think people are people are prone to like pity that. But in your, in your regard,
it's like the best thing that could have happened to you. The best thing I've ever done for myself,
the best gift I ever could have given myself, my wife, and the rest of the world. Yeah. There's
a version of me that was in massive pain, couldn't get anything done. Couldn't talk, couldn't express,
I couldn't express myself. Like I was just so blocked up from just so much pain. And now I've
got this opportunity to free up like my brain's got all this like space to operate. And like,
it was a really wild experience getting out of pain, especially those first few months.
It was a really wild scenario. Did you experience any like phantom limb pain or any residual
discomfort after the amputation? I did. Yeah. Nothing crazy, especially like in the first
month, some bad days and some good days. But I also, I was fortunate that with my amputation,
my surgeon also did did work on my nerves with a procedure called targeted muscle
re-innovation or TMR. If you are somebody seeking an elective amputation or you have this opportunity
that your amputation is happening on purpose, that absolutely should be a part of your procedure.
And it did a lot to mitigate phantom pain. So the point that I really don't have them anymore,
every once in a while, and I can almost always tie it to my left glute. I'm a left,
my, I lost my left foot. My left glute gets really tight. I will get some of that phantom pain.
But other than that, it's very, very minimal at this point.
Are you above the knee or below the knee?
Below. Below the knee. You mentioned squatting 400, like while you had CRPS and kind of having a
high level of fitness, did you talk to anyone that had experience with kind of using fitness
and exercise to manage CRPS symptoms? Like, do you think anything you did exacerbated symptoms
or improved symptoms? I didn't, I never found resources to talk to. Part of it was I didn't
seek it out like aggressively. The few times that I did try to like kind of look into support groups
or information type stuff, I just, it really wasn't my jam. I found a lot of people leaning
into how bad it was versus what we could, what can you do? And that mindset and what, what I
learned from that was with CRPS, you have to stay on the gas. Like you have to, the second you stop,
you're, I never saw anybody get back on the bike. You had to keep pedaling. And so that's what I
learned from that. And so it became a big trial and error. So like it, I started off, I was doing
CrossFit. And as the condition progressed and worsened, I could running became an issue. Jumping
rope and bigger impact. And then it became simply coming off of a pull up bar, could mean three weeks
of exacerbated pain. If I don't do, if I landed on my left foot at all. So a lot of, so then it
became like increased like, like prolonged heart rate, like intensity, you know, again, all the
things that kind of CrossFit works into with like longer pieces, then the duration became an issue.
So I had to learn how, I had to learn how to assess. And I learned a lot about assessment
in that process. And so like, okay, that's gone. And I just, I had to be, I had to drop the ego.
Yeah, yeah, I really want to do it like everyone else, but I can't. Or if I do, I'm going to trade
that one hour of doing things like everybody else. And I'm going to be absolutely miserable the other
23 hours of the day and be capable of getting nothing else done and being a useless human being
because I'm in so much pain. So then, so then that's where the dive into like strength became
more of a thing. It started with, so the natural move was to go to Olympic weightlifting. I was
like, okay, I like the fact that it's still very technical, very skill based. You know,
because when I had my feet planted in together, I was moving bilaterally, I wasn't having near
as much stuff getting flared up as unilateral like walking was harder than deadlifting.
You know, and then, you know, I still had deteriorations, you know, we had to change up how I
squatted at times, you know, I had to be ready for, I had to have a plan A, B and C for if my leg was
going to not cooperate with the program squatting or pulling or whatever it was. So Olympic weight
lifting, I kind of put a focus on that for a while, learned a lot. Things became too inconsistent to
training together. I moved on to more just flat out strength bias. I got into throwing. I don't,
that was kind of a middle finger to the condition that wasn't really about trying to get better,
I think. I was like, you know what, I really want to give this a try. And I think I'm running out of
time. I truly believed I was running out of time to be able to try things and figure it out. Because
again, I still didn't know that amputation was an option. So I thought I was just done. And so like,
but like continuing to learn, I was like, okay, so I've never, I've never dived very hard into
rotation. So that that was a big piece of that one, you know, trying out different methods,
you know, odd objects became like way more valuable than barbells. So like, you know,
just different things like that is so I became a very good scientist. I became very good at running
every bit of training as an experiment. Yeah, and I think that like some of the best
learning experiences that I have had have been my own trial and error. So I like your experience
having to modify everything for kind of symptoms that are always ever changing probably made you
such a better coach. And maybe like, obviously your clients might not have CRPS, but there's no
way that there's not similarities in terms of how they respond to different exercises and how you
can kind of make those modifications on the fly. So I always tell people like, when we're introducing
them to working with people with disabilities, like training adaptive athletes makes you a better
coach for all populations. And I think there's way more similarities and differences. Absolutely.
Everything that works for me works better for able-bodied. That's the funny part. Just to find
something that works is like, works, works here for me, works all the way up here for able-bodied
because you get to use all you get to get all the benefits. Yeah, exactly. Again, I learned a lot
about modification. I learned a lot about how to relate with an athlete when things aren't working
right, strategies on how to work better. Like, yeah, I picked up so there was so much that I
learned and like also teaching them how to be a more present athlete. Like, you know, the word
gets thrown a lot, I'll be present, be present gets thrown around a lot. But like, one of the things
that I really learned was how to be very aware mid-lift, how to actually feel my hamstrings,
feel foot pressure and be aware of it in the middle of a dynamic lift. And then I was able to then
transfer that and then I realized how valuable that was. And I started learning how to teach
other athletes to do it and then go figure, set their game on fire. Yeah, so that and then combined
with probably when some of your physical ability to demonstrate movement is taken away, I would
imagine that makes you a much better verbal communicator because you don't have the same
luxury of like me demonstrating how to do a squat. You have to succinctly outline the three or four
coaching points you want to communicate and it makes you a much better verbal instructor as well.
Absolutely. And that's where I started developing. That's where I really got good at developing
drills. That's where the band, that little banjo you're referencing, that came before my amputation.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. So after your amputation maybe, or I guess when did you have
your amputation? It was a year ago, a year and a half ago? August 26th of 2020. Yeah, okay. Oh,
so a few years back. Yeah, three years post amputation, not quite three years with the leg.
Okay, so that was in the middle of COVID. Yeah, it was whenever the operating room started to open
back up a little bit more freely. Okay, all right, cool. And over these last few years,
what have been like the sports that you've gravitated towards? Have you competed in adaptive
CrossFit? Yeah, so I've done a little bit. I've done the CrossFit open a couple of times. I was,
I did the very first one for the adaptive. I mean, I've been doing the CrossFit open
probably five or six years before my amputation. So yeah, I have done CrossFit. I was actually on
the first all adaptive team to qualify for and compete in a major CrossFit competition, the
Abelbody division. Two other amputees invited me to come down to Miami and we did Wada Pelusa
in the Abelbody division, which was just a ton of fun and a really like impactful thing. We got to
have a lot of good conversations. We got to build a lot of fans for the adaptive division. Like,
you know, people were coming and talking to us afterwards because like, they got to see us compete
next to a fitness level that they understood their friends were out there. So they knew how fit their
friends were. And now we're not just like a feel good, like, Oh, no, these guys are actually
fails. Like, yeah, you should go check this out. And we'd go tell them when the next event was and
we'd go in, we'd see some of these same people there and we'd go watch the events with them. And
we got to do stuff like that. So I've done CrossFit. I've done a few Highland games. I've got back
into throwing. In May, I threw a game where there's eight world records for adaptive Highland games
in each adaptive division. I broke five of them in the same game. That was pretty, pretty cool
experience. I said I played some sled hockey schedules currently not permitting for that one
right now. Unfortunately, hockey is like hockey is like the lifelong passion for me. Like, I don't
remember becoming a hockey fan. I just always was. But this winter, the plan is to get my is to get
into more stand up skating. And I've already been invited to a couple of beer league teams. So if
I ever so that so that if that that that ever needs to be tickled, I've got I've got a place to go
there. That's pretty cool. Um, I think what else I've really gotten into a good little bit.
Right now, do you feel like you would gravitate towards standing hockey as opposed to sled hockey?
Now? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. For what reason? I like using my legs. I'm big by sled hockey standards.
If you watch like the national team, it's a lot of double amputees.
Shorter sleds, they're more maneuverable. Not that I couldn't not that I can't get it done. And I
had a ton of fun with it. I just love the idea of getting out there and get my legs going.
But I still have them, you know, so it's like, I've always kind of wanted to do it. I've never
really gotten to play. I was a really undersized kid growing up. And I was also in a big family
and hockey is not a big family sport. So never actually got to never got to like play growing
up. So why not? I learned to skateboard. I learned to skateboard on an on a prosthetic for the
first time in my life, you know, so yeah, all good examples of how life has improved significantly
after your amputation, just the opportunities that's provided.
I was I wanted to ask about just like how you perceive adaptive sports versus something like
standing hockey. So I guess you kind of said that you like to use your legs, but it was just one
of the things that kind of came to mind as I was prepping for this is and you have the unique
perspective of kind of having played both and having the capacity to play both. And I often
wonder if like introducing quote unquote adaptive sports to able bodied individuals would kind of
make the prevalence of them greater and kind of make the popularity of them greater. So I'm just
always interested in how I kind of adaptive sports can exist more in the mainstream.
So I think a lot of it is really simply an education process. You can see a lot of it
on the women's side as well. I would say like the women's side of a lot of sports are a little bit
ahead of the adaptive side, but we're going through the same process. And what we're fighting is how
established able bodied sports are, but it's more it's so the way I put it here is I was really
fortunate when I first went into a sled hockey sled hockey locker room in that locker room was
the goalie for Team USA who recently became the first ever Paralympic athlete to be inducted into
the US Olympic Hall of Fame and then the captain of Team USA who is a double double above knee
congenital amputee in Josh Paul's Steve Cash being the goalie. That was that was who I was in a
locker room day one. I realized really quick that had if Josh had been born with both his shin bones,
he still would have been an Olympic athlete. Same caliber of athlete. It just happens to have a
disability. The expression is what changes like my if I hit the same level of proficiency on a
movement or in a sport as somebody who's able bodied the expression is going to look a little
different. Like if you want to just put it into like weightlifting terms where that may be that
level of proficiency, skill, strength, let's just say all that being equal might be a 300 pound lift
for you that might only be a 250 a 250 pound lift for me. It's understanding that it's just it's
understanding that language. It's kind of like watching in a different language. So again, it's
a lot of education. It's also there's the unique opportunity in 2023 where we've all got social
media. We've got I've got a 4k camera in my pocket. It's people putting themselves out there like
you know being out there and like being willing to be that educator. You know, one of the guys on
the US sled hockey team that's gained a lot of popularity is Jack Wallace. He's done a ton on
like TikTok where he is where he will this is here's something to learn about sled hockey today.
And that sort of stuff does go well. And then from that and then it's also tempering expectations.
People think that because adaptive athletes aren't making the same money as LeBron James that
we're being discriminated like, no, it's just got to build a little bit like these structures have
to build an understanding that we are planting a tree we may not get to sit in the shade for.
And I'm good with that. Like I'm doing these things, you know, I was supposed to be actually
have a boxing I was supposed to box on Saturday. I was supposed to have a fight fell through had
opponents had eight opponents back out and elect not to fight me, unfortunately. But like part of
it was like, I want to demonstrate that this stuff can be done well. Did they back out because of
your amputation? I wasn't told that that was actually the reason but I was told that yeah, they didn't
want to be the they didn't want to take that L is what it is. It'll happen. It'll happen eventually.
Because it was able bodied opponents. Yeah. But like part of that it wasn't because I wanted to
yes, I do want to fight and I want that experience. But like it also became an opportunity to like
demonstrate like no, this can be done well. And here I'll show you how like we need a like in
the adaptive space we need a lot of those people because it's not me who's going to get paid.
But there's a kid that may see that and start working on his boxing now and turns into a great
freaking boxer. Yeah, because he saw that. Yeah, you talk about it as like I like the lens of
representation instead of like inspiration. It's one thing that I've asked some of the guests that
we've talked with like, do you like being considered an inspiration? Or do you kind of prefer people
express that differently to you? I would say I kind of struggled with it a little bit early on.
You know, I don't love going to Aldi's and having some some older woman grab my shoulder and tell
me how amazing it is that I that I'm out getting groceries by myself. Come on, man.
I can do more than you can. Yeah, that's well, that's that's just like that's just the education
piece. I think like people don't know what to say. So they just default to what they think is like
the nicest thing to say, but they don't really realize. So it's like, I've kind of moved towards
I'm pretty neutral on it. So I kind of had this like moment of clarity with it because it was like
a point where it was like it was bothering me a little bit. So it's like, I felt like I was being
patronized a little bit. And I was like, you know what the reality is inspiration is derived from
wherever you are currently. Who am I to take that away from somebody who feels maybe a little lower
about themselves or they're just not as far on their journey. And they look forward and they see
like, okay, this is very doable. That's inspiring to me. Who am I to reign on that? Like, why would
I want to get in the way of that? The world is a better place if more people are doing more things
that are more physical, they have more belief in themselves. The world's a better place for that.
I'm not going to be a jerk to somebody who says that I'm an inspiration to them.
Do I don't get excited about it? I don't seek it. I don't need it. If I never hear it again,
that's fine. But like, cool, like I'm glad you found me then. Like I am glad you found my page.
You got questions, ask them. Let's go. Yeah. Yeah, it's like you want you want to inspire action,
not just compliments. It's like you want to inspire someone to like get after it,
like because of what what they say you do. That's a way better way to say it than I did.
I thought yours was very eloquent. I want to inspire action. No, I love that.
Yeah. So you've recently kind of picked up running. You have your hands in a lot of
different buckets for sports. Oh, I also want to ask, like, have you tried amputee soccer?
Not like on a field, like not in a game. I have, I have a pair of crutches that I've taken out and
kicked the ball around a couple times. It's fun. Yeah, a friend of mine, a friend of mine is the
captain for the US team. So, and they're always, they're always looking for people. So him and I
were talking this morning, we're hoping to have a training camp next year, next October, actually,
in the Boston area. So, oh, cool. I love, I recently went up to Boston this year for the very first
time. And if New Hampshire isn't my favorite place on earth, I don't know what is. Yeah. Yeah.
I like New, I like the, the like New Hampshire vibe a lot better than the city vibe for sure.
We're about an hour outside of Boston, where my gym is here. So definitely not city like
more New Hampshire vibes than Boston vibes. Okay. Then yeah, I need to link you up with less leg
then. Are they in Boston? New Hampshire. Tina Hurley's in, in a. Oh, I follow, I follow Tina on
Facebook. I think we're, I think we're friends on Facebook. Yeah. So there's also, are you familiar
with Noel Lambert's Born to Run Foundation? I'm not familiar with the foundation. I know who she is.
I can probably say I followed her before she was on Survivor. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, she's pretty local
to me here. And I know they've been gifting running blades to various people. Yeah. So you,
so you got your first running blade recently? A couple of years back to Boston. Yeah. Okay. All
right. Boston earlier this year. What was that first experience like kind of getting out to run?
It was weird. I felt real heavy. So for perspective, I think I was around 175 whenever I got hurt.
I was 195. Like a solid 195 going around. I was like, Oh man, I feel real heavy because I hadn't
bounded like that in years, like years and years and years. And it was the first time running in
like 12. And yeah, but like, I, my brain caught on to it. I knew I understood the mechanics because
again, like you said, I couldn't, I couldn't like show people how to run. So I'd get really good at
the understanding and verbalizing how to run with the athletes I was coaching. So I was able to then
get to apply that and like learn that over a couple of days. You know, because I understood how to
cue it. So now I just had to do it to myself. And like, that's where all the work, all the,
all the, the whole process came to this like huge culmination of like, Oh, you can express this now.
And that was very cool. Are you using your running blade in CrossFit as well? Is it a better
option for that type of training? So I'm not really doing CrossFit right now. But I would not,
because it would be like equivalent of doing these movements off the ball of your feet. If I were to
be getting back into that, I'd probably be doing something more like the hybrid foot, like the
cheetah explorer from Ocer, where it's got a heel. That's probably a little bit more or honestly,
I'm using the forever foot from Levitate. And that thing is sweet. Yeah, for maybe for people who
don't have much knowledge of prosthetics, would you be able to kind of succinctly break down the
difference between like your everyday leg and like your running blade? Okay. So try to be as
succinct as possible for this incredibly complicated. Yeah, I know. That's what's a little tricky.
So we can oversimplify it and put most prosthetics into two categories. Absorbing energy
or expressing energy. So like a running blade is expressing a lot of energy. It does not do a lot.
It does almost no absorption. It's all about the return and that springiness gives you that feel
of running. And then like, that's not typically what you want to walk around in every day. So
you walk around feet, they've got a little bit more, they've got less return, they're a little
softer, they've got more, again, there's more energy absorption happening and less return.
It's a lot more comfortable to walk around. Like I said, if I were to walk around in my
running blade all day, my hip would be jacked up. It would feel terrible to walk and be like walking
around on my tippy toe. There's a reason that, because running, optimal running happens on the
front of the half of the foot, your running blades only have the front half. And now what I
was describing is a foot that has, that actually lives in the middle of that. So I would be able
to get some more of that movement. I'd be able to pull, like again, put it in the crossfit setting,
if I were going to do some like lifts and stuff like that, a lot of your barbell lifts are flat
foot lifts. So because I'd have that heel on that, on that specific foot, I'd be able to get that,
get some of that propulsion, not as much as a running plate, but some of it,
while still having the balance that comes from being leaning towards that everyday foot style.
Yeah, that makes all perfect sense. And what is, since you seem to be the one that's always
after specific tangible goals, do you have a specific running goal?
Find its logical conclusion. So I've signed up for a 30K in May. I'm going to be running the
Bryce Canyon 30K trail run. Good bit of climbing. It's going to be, you know, it's not technically
ultra distance, but my understanding is that it's an excellent introduction to ultra,
to ultra running. So I know that like I'm running for experience. I'm not running because I want
to run. Now I have found there. Now I've really learned some stuff through this running journey
already. Like my boxing footwork has improved with my, as my running improved, like my technique,
my boxing improves. And that's been awesome because it will you get hit less. The better
your footwork is the less you get hit. So there's that side of it. I really want to see how far,
how far I need to take it to really start to maximize or optimize that. Like what's the,
what's the best like return on investment there. And then like for me, like I want an experience,
like I'm not trying to like not, I'm straw running marathon at some point, because the 30ks 19 miles
in a tough terrain, I'm assuming if I could do that one, I could probably then turn around and
run 26 on flat paved road. Not the same, but similar capacities. Yeah. But like I want the
experience. Like I want to see things like even just some of the runs I've done already, I've
got done some trails. I've done some just like really nicely well taken care of paved runs even.
And I was like, I love this experience that I'm getting. And this is not the same as walking.
And it sure as heck isn't the same as watching on someone else's social media. So like I want to
see what sort of experiences are out there for me. Is the is the uneven terrain of trails tough for
the foot? Um, you know what, I have had less challenge than I expected. The other thing is it's
super precise. So this, so that prosthetic isn't as big with the running blade. It's actually a
lot smaller. And I was like, Oh, that's actually if I'm good at my vestibular system is in good
shape. It's a minor, not an advantage, but like it's not a hindrance at all. Like I've yet to
find an issue and I've not gone anything crazy technical. Um, but I've had no issues. It's been
really fun. You got it. I would say you don't start on trails though as an amputee.
Um, you really have to have that gate pattern figured out. You have to have like, there's a
like, there's way, a way bigger strength prerequisite to run on an on a running blade
than it is just to run able body now run now able body running probably has has the same thing.
But on the blade, you have to, you have to be stronger so you can control the blade
and not get controlled by it. How did you get affiliated with Tino's organization there?
Um, she found me on Instagram actually. So, um, she, I got a message from less leg more heart
and she was like, Hey, um, I took a look at, you know, we've been watching your social media for
a little bit. We think that we, I think that we align on some goals. Uh, would you be willing to
get on a zoom call? And, um, so we hop on this call. Uh, it was immediate. We clicked right away
and she's exactly right. Um, we're both about making everything accessible. Uh, so, so that they,
they, uh, they work with a prosthetic manufacturer called levitate and that's so they gift those
running blades. I didn't know this. I was actually being interviewed to be a recipient, um, that day
as well. And so they ended up flying me out to Boston. Um, I did some media stuff and content
stuff for less leg more heart. And then we went down to the D one facility in Boston
and we, um, levitate puts on these, uh, events called test runs. So like, Hey, if you sign up,
you're an amputee, we will put you in a running blade and you will have the option to test one
out. We're going to teach you a little bit about how to use it. And, um, you know, they do these
events to spread awareness and because levitate is big thing is accessibility of these running
blades as well. I'm sure you're aware of how difficult it is for a lot of amputees to gain one.
Yeah. Levitate sells theirs direct to consumer instead and they sell them for $2,000.
You get a payment plan for under $200 a month. The blade gets shipped right away.
So like they're, so again, we're all three of us are on the same page.
I was gifted a levitate running blade and kind of the rest of the story wrote itself, um, being
a coach for as long as I had and I was just kind of working on it. And they were like, I got put
on the spot like, Hey, Hey, Sam Schaefer, where you at? And this is, I had spoken and met the, uh,
the owner of levitate on a zoom call about six weeks prior. And, um, he puts me on the spot.
He's like, Hey, why don't you come and teach us, teach us, you know, warm us up and teach these
guys. It's like, All right, let's figure this out. And we figured out that I know how to get
amputees. I ran the same sort of drill concepts that I was doing for myself. And we had 30 amputees
with a quality running gate within 20 minutes to include a handful of AKs. And it was incredible.
It was like this like crazy, like, Holy cow. Now what happens if I get time to actually
really refine this process? Yeah. Yeah. That sounds like it would be a great clinic to,
to bring to other organizations for sure. Yes. Yes. Um, you mentioned one of your values that
aligned well with less like more heart was making, um, fitness or sport accessible. What do you think
needs to be done in the fitness space to make it more inclusive and accessible? Um,
from the able body perspective, these athletes cannot be seen as the boogeyman.
They can't be seen as this like really difficult to work with. And then from the adaptive side,
from the athlete side, we got to understand that these people are learning. They're not going to
have it all figured out. And there needs to be a little bit of grace with that as well. Like,
there's a lot of people that are very, that are trying very hard, but they're not there yet.
So like if you got to, got to understand your, understand the reality of the scenarios that
we're walking in, like people haven't been studying amputee, squatting, deadlifting, running
for decades, the way they have able bodied. They're still learning how to translate all that stuff.
And there's very few people like myself that had almost a decade of that sort of coaching and
learning and then became an amputee. So that's why that's where I feel a responsibility to be
putting out the content that I am now, because again, that makes it more accessible. It's,
yes, it's great for amputees, but there's, I've had able bodied coaches that have passion.
Like I want to serve this community. I just don't know how. Yeah. Yeah. I think we've,
we've written, I've written a little bit about that where like, I think sometimes
what holds businesses back is just the fear of not being able to accommodate for someone. So they
like don't even promote themselves or they don't even make the effort to be more inclusive, because
at some point they're going to run into a condition that they're not familiar with,
or they're going to run into a scenario where they're not sure what to do. So to hear from
an athlete like yourself, where you're kind of giving someone like myself the grace to kind of
figure out what the best solution is together, I think that's an important message to communicate
and maybe put more people at ease. Like we're not expected to have all the answers. We're just
expected to care to find the solutions. So I hope that's a message that would resonate with
some people that might be a little hesitant to enter this world, but that are needed to kind
of make the industry as a whole more accessible. Yeah, it's funny. Yeah. Like I've seen some very
qualified coaches that I think would kill it in the adaptive space, but they're afraid to do it for
that reason. And then you see people that just flat out like, oh, my cousin was an amputee,
so I'm passionate about this. And they don't do any education, but they tell people all about how
much they care. And now they're out there, I'm like, oh, no, you're not, oh, this isn't helping.
I'm trying to find that line. It's hard. That's the other thing is understand that it is challenging
to get the stuff figured out. We're trying to figure out how to do something and use an inanimate
object as a tool. It's a challenging task. And again, yeah, it's so much perspective.
Again, it's perspective, grace and like, let's figure it out together. Let's be committed to this
quality. And that's the thing I think that is missing a little bit is there's not enough people
that are committed to the quality of what's happening with these athletes. They think, oh,
that their job is to be their cheerleader. No, like just because that bar got off the ground
and they stood up does not make it a good deadlift. And your job is not to say great job.
Your job is to be like, all right, here's how we do it better. Yeah, we talk about how adaptive
to be a good adaptive strength conditioning coach, you have to be a good strength conditioning coach
for all populations first. So then you can kind of apply those principles. Like you said, you knew
the running gate, and then you were able to apply that to an amputee. But if you had just
immediately gone to like, oh, I'm very interested in helping people post-amputation, learn how to
run, but you didn't do that due diligence of learning gate mechanics and learning biomechanics
of running beforehand. It's like, you're just a cheerleader. And that could be that could be a good
thing. But we do need to kind of raise the standard, I guess, a little bit in terms of how adaptive
athletes are trained. Yeah, exactly. It's teaching methods as well. It's not just flat out knowing
running gate mechanics are how do you develop them, the teaching side of it. Like, you have to just
you have to be a great teacher for this. Yeah. Yeah, well, we're very interested in following
along as you prep for that 30k. Is it next spring? This coming spring? Yeah, yeah, I've still got a
lot of time. Yeah, enough time for me to get a little too overconfident and zealous and think,
maybe we'll do a 50. That tends to be how it goes. If a marathon is good, an ultra marathon must be
better. I tell people that all the time. I got clients, they run their first 5k and they're like,
so now I'm thinking of signing up for a marathon. And I'm like, more is not always better. Like,
and people that run marathons aren't inherently better than people that run 5k. Is it's like
correct? I'm not in the 5k this weekend with my wife. There you go. If people are interested in
learning more about you, or kind of finding you on social, where's the best place to do so?
Two places. The best one to go to is definitely my Instagram. That's what I've been doing the longest
at Sam Schaefer 1. S-A-M-S-C-H-A-E-F-E-R. And then the number one on Instagram. I know there's
about 96 ways to spell Schaefer and they all make sense. I'll link it in the show notes so people
can go right there. Appreciate that. And then I am early on in my YouTube career, where I'm trying
to put out a combination. I'm actually going to be doing all my run prep, all my stuff, everything
that I learned for this 30k. I'm going to be going in depth on my YouTube channel. So there's
going to be like a recurring vlog. So I'm going to be discussing just running as a whole, what I'm
learning on the amputee side, but more than anything, I want to communicate the process of
figuring things out. Because my process isn't going to be the same as yours, or my absolutes
aren't going to be the same as yours, but you can mirror the process to figure out your version of
it. And that's my goal at the end of this, is someone's going to learn how to figure it out. I'm
also tying that in with some amputee specific education stuff. We talked about that video the
other day. I started a series and I just got started called the concept of cue and a strategy,
where I'm going to take a concept of a common movement or movement pattern. I'm going to figure
out, I'm going to tell you exactly how I've been successful cueing it to a prosthetic,
and then a strategy for you to take it home and know whether or not you're getting it right.
Yeah, so those will all be amazing resources. I love following along with people's training
on YouTube. A couple of my favorite athletes and marathoners that are very open with their training,
for some reason. I love watching that process, so very much looking forward to following along
with yours as well. Sam, I'm glad we connected. I appreciate the time that you gave me this morning
to touch base and feel very fortunate to have you in our community now and appreciate you being a
part of it. Yeah, thank you. It's a pleasure. It's all mine and I hope we can figure out some more
stuff to do together. Absolutely. Thank you for listening to the AdaptX podcast. Our effort to
amplify the ideas of our guests and create more inclusive and accessible industries is futile
unless these episodes reach a larger audience. If you enjoyed our discussion today, please leave us
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