All right, welcome to the AdaptX podcast.
We are joined by guests who are building accessible businesses
or products advocating for inclusion
or excelling in adaptive sports.
Our intention is never to speak on behalf of those
with disabilities, but rather advocate on their behalf
and amplify their voice.
Today I'm joined by Georgia Carmichael,
a world-class athlete who's been dealt
with a rather unfortunate hand.
This is a conversation that I've been looking forward to
for a while, joining us all the way from Great Britain, right?
Yes, yeah.
Welcome overseas.
So, Georgia, thank you for joining us today.
Thank you for having me.
So maybe let's start with your first introduction to sports.
So kayaking was your passion.
So kind of when did you...
When were you first introduced to the sport?
How old were you when you started?
So I started when I was 10,
just because the area I lived in is a very water sport-based town.
And it was the year of the Olympics.
And so I was kind of motivated by that
and I started kayaking.
And I came off the water after my first session
and I told my mum I was going to go to the Olympics.
So very early on it became my big dream.
Maybe it's not quite as popular in the States,
in the US here, but maybe like,
for people that aren't familiar with the sport as a whole,
can you maybe summarize what competitions like,
kind of how courses are structured?
Yeah, so I do with kayaking and rowing.
So they're both flat water.
The kayaking consists of sprints or marathons.
So sprints are genuinely, you know, 200, 500,000 meters.
A marathon depends on your age.
So as a junior, it was kind of up to about 25 kilometers.
And then obviously rowing,
you have normally just a two kilometer race, so 2000 meters.
Okay. Are the boats different
as the composition of people in the boat different?
Yeah, so with kayaking, you have like K1, K2 and K4.
And it stands for kayak one, kayak two.
So how many people are in the boat?
And then rowing, you can also have the same one, two, four
and also eight.
Okay.
So at 15, you represented your country
at the World Championships.
Maybe explain a little bit about that experience
and the success of it.
Yeah. So I went in kind of the underdog.
I was the youngest to have a go.
So no one really knew what was coming out of it.
We kind of were told this is going to be a big lesson for you
and that would be good to learn from the older athletes.
And as you remember, being on the start line,
this tiny 15 year old surrounded by all these very strong
looking 18 year olds up to me at that time looked old.
So it's quite daunting, but yeah,
it was very exciting at the same time.
What was the distance for that race?
So in this one I was doing, because it was marathon,
but you also have a short course added in.
So it was a five kilometer race as well as the 21 kilometer race.
How long does that take the longer, the 21 kilometer?
It takes about an hour and a half
because you also have something called portages during it.
So portages is where you have to get out and run with your boat.
Usually in the UK, it's on rivers over these like locks
that you can't paddle through.
And so to keep it continuous with all the races,
they added it in and so a lot of beach portages,
we have to actually jump out your boat halfway through paddling
into shallow water and then run maybe about up to 200 meters.
Okay. All right.
I hadn't even envisioned that that was part of the event
as a whole. That's interesting.
So shortly after that success,
just through some of the stuff I've read,
referred to it as an injury and accident,
can you maybe kind of take us through what happened
and maybe symptomatically what you were feeling
and then how that manifested?
Yeah. So obviously you returned from winning the two golds at the World Championships,
returned home and shortly after,
I fell from a height and hit the back of my head,
which unfortunately led to my first brain injury.
So obviously being 15, it was tough and I wasn't very aware for a little while,
but it was a challenge to get back.
I lost my memory, a lot of it.
So counting and some words were quite tricky and naming things
as well as I didn't have any balance and coordination.
So I kind of had to relearn that,
which took a long time to relearn walking.
So I spent a couple of months in the hospital
before I returned home.
And the first thing I wanted to do was obviously get back in my boat and get back training.
So it was a TBI, it wasn't a spinal cord injury?
No. So at this time it was a traumatic brain injury.
And then symptomatically,
is that when you were initially diagnosed with FND or was that a later?
Yeah. So that time I was diagnosed.
Obviously we found out later, misdiagnosed,
but at that point I was diagnosed with a neurological condition
because no one could really understand what was going on at the point.
Like there were some things that you didn't add up and they didn't know.
You know, it wasn't so problematic at the time
because I did recover quite quickly and got back to my sport and kind of put it behind me.
So were you, was there questioning in the medical community as to like how symptoms were
being demonstrated and stuff?
Like were people doubting, I guess, the validity of it?
Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, I was quite confused in case
and no one really knew what was going on.
Hence why I got put under this label.
Because they use this label a lot to kind of put things in and understand into.
And at that time, even as a few years,
the testing for what I now found out I have wasn't really that good.
So they hadn't even questioned kind of continuing testing
and they were just waiting and seeing to see if I would got better and if I recovered.
Yeah, so what did it end up being diagnosed as?
So I was only diagnosed this year with something called Mellas.
It's a mitochondrial disorder and obviously it's taken us six years to get to that diagnosis,
mainly because of the fact it's so raw and I have it sporadically.
So, you know, my mum doesn't have it, it's usually genetic,
but no one in my family has it.
But also I've got it as late onset sort of later.
And it was only diagnosed because it had progressed so much
that it was showing up more on scans and tests.
And even in those few years, six years,
the testing devices have had advanced enough to get the diagnosis.
So was it a product of that accident or was it a genetic condition that would have manifested either way?
So this is what they're still researching because before that date,
you know, I had no issues before the injury.
And obviously mitochondria was your energy, so they're like,
how are you in the athlete and things like that.
So it's quite confusing at the moment.
We don't really know, but they're thinking that it was always dormant and I always had it.
And obviously a trigger to my nervous system, let alone all the other injuries it had,
must have just been too much for my body.
And so it started to progress and manifest a lot quickly.
So after that first accident, you were 16, right?
Around 16?
Yeah, I was 16.
You returned to kayaking, competed at a high level again at 17.
So that was just in traditional kayaking, right?
Not Paralympic.
No, this was just traditional kayaking.
And I was also doing rowing at this point too.
But it was just, yeah, I was with the able-bodied athletes at this point
because I made that for recovery.
And then did you happen to have another accident or another injury that...
Yeah, so when I was 16, I said that year, amazing, that I went back to Worlds and got two silvers.
I went to the Junior Olympics and was travelling all over the world competing.
And unfortunately, in the December that year, when I was 16,
I had another brain injury in a bit of a freak accident.
But this one was a lot worse.
This was a traumatic brain injury where I spent the next three months in intensive care
and then went on to spend nine months in rehabilitation, kind of relaunched talk,
relaunched eat, and I had no movement from the neck down,
so I had to relearn kind of all movements again.
And how long?
You said you were nine months in rehab?
Yeah, so in total it was a year in hospital and nine months in rehabilitation centre,
going through like, you know, four hours of physio day, things like that.
And what was that kind of like from a, I guess, a mindset standpoint?
So you're a world-class athlete and then you have this accident that puts you into a year-long battle
to kind of get back to where you were, where there are specific factors that were motivating
or kind of that kept you engaged during that process?
I think a lot of the time, my tendons try and treat my physio sessions like training and like a race,
you know, you leave nothing behind, you give it your all.
And so that's kind of the approach I took.
And then also I'd always envisioned when I was 15 crossing that line,
knowing I'd just won the World Championship from the youngest to it, like that feeling,
I would visualise that and know that I wanted to get that feeling again.
You know, I wanted to get back in my boat, I wanted to go win again.
So that for me was a huge kind of motivator during it.
So you started rehab with um, paralysed from the neck down and when you finished rehab,
what were your physical uh, like symptoms and abilities?
So yeah, so when I went home, I was still paralysed from the waist down
and I still had some issues with kind of eating and talking, but it was a lot better.
And I decided I just needed to get home because I wanted to get back in my boat.
So I went home and a week later sat in my boat, still unable to use my legs,
but I was off and it felt like I hadn't, you know, not been there that whole time.
And I knew from that moment, you know, I'm going to get better.
And six weeks later, I started walking.
So do you know or do doctors know kind of what happened between that time where you had no
uh, function below the hip or below the waist and then to the point where you were walking again?
Was there any connection between the two or?
Yeah.
So I think for me and what we think is, you know, being back in a boat where I'd trained for so long
and spent so many hours in, it was kind of muscle memory for me.
And you know, that neuroplasticity kicked in and it all just seemed to connect together
as well as, you know, in my mind and my mindset improved even more because once I was back in that
boat, I just knew this is what I wanted and I was going to fight for it.
And I'm still doing rehab every day at home and things like that.
And it became more sport orientated for me and I'm a very competitive individual.
So that really helped to enhance my rehab.
Were there barriers to getting back into the sport from like an accessibility or
a physical standpoint?
Yeah, like a lot of my local clubs weren't the most accessible.
So it was quite hard to get down and get into the boat and train.
So a lot of times people would have to lift me down steps and things like that, which is quite
tricky. And at the time I didn't have an adapted boat.
So I did fall out a lot because obviously without these my legs balancing was a lot harder.
But over time this did improve and obviously there were still issues like, because I didn't
really have sensation, I'd get sores a lot on in from the boat.
So the things we had to kind of adapt around and that took a little bit of time to get used to,
but we got there.
Was it at this point where you entered the the gateway program for Paralympics or?
Yeah, so originally I did and then I actually was able enough to go back fully to the team I
was in before. So I did go back to that team in the end for a couple years until the other
accident, which is then when I became their Paralympic athlete.
Can you maybe take us through that transition between the two? Did it feel different?
Was there any feeling of like less than or did it just kind of feel like a natural evolution
and like a just a kind of, I guess a different competition?
At first it was hard, obviously like leaving my teammates and everything. And I think it was
quite hard. I love the sport, but it just felt so different now. And it was quite a big barrier
for me at first. I didn't really want to accept it. And I just continued to want to train with my
every like, you know, my old team. And that was quite a big mind thing. I like battle I had to
get through. But the end of the day, I was able to do the sport I loved. So I was just grateful
that I could be back on the water where I loved being.
Yeah. Are Paralympics big in your country or do they have a strong presence? Yeah.
Yes, especially for the rowing team. I mean, recently, for example, they've just come back
from the world championships and all the boats are qualified for Paris. And, you know,
they've got loads of them have had world records and stuff. So over here, the rowing and Paralympic
team is big and really well funded. So obviously that's really good.
When was timeline wise? When were you competing and kind of I guess when was the last time you
competed? So the last time I competed was earlier this year in February. Okay. So I had two competitions
that month in one in rowing, which was trials to get through to the next stage for, you know,
Paris. And then the other one was a CrossFit competition. So I was doing the other sport I
did, which was adaptive CrossFit. Yeah, cool. And for the last, how long have you been in the
hospital now? So I've now been in the hospital for five and a half months, coming up to six months.
So what happened between those last competitions and then your current stint in the hospital?
So in it was end of March, I just got really poorly all of a sudden and there was no accident
or anything. I just clapped at home and we came in and I was back in intensive care and we were
told I had a spinal stroke. So obviously at this point, we still didn't have a full diagnosis.
And then this is when the testing began and I got moved to a specialist hospital in London
where the mitochondrial condition was found, which basically between now and the first accident,
I've had many IT admissions. I've never been explained and there was really not what's going on.
And so now we do have answers for that. And this mitochondrial condition is to blame for a lot of
what I've gone through. And obviously, yeah, so this spinal stroke, having been so high up,
paralyzed me from the neck down. And the first few weeks, you know, talking, my vision was affected.
And with mellas, you get lactic acidosis and like strokes, so it can cause lesions on my
spine or my brain, which is what happened in this case. And that's when you first got introduced
to like mellas as a diagnosis? Was this most recent? Yeah, yes. Yeah, so it wasn't until it would have
been June that I got diagnosed because it does take months. And I mean, we still have many
unanswered questions at the moment, but it takes a lot of time. I mean, the muscle arts, it takes
six months to come back. Well, okay. All right. Yeah, it's a rare condition. So I'm guessing
that most people that are listening aren't familiar with it. So do you know enough to maybe give like
a little bit of a synopsis of what it's like and kind of what the treatment is, what the physio is?
Yeah, of course. So mitochondrial disorders, basically, your mitochondria produced 90% of your
energy in your body and yourselves. So when you have this depletion of mitochondria,
it affects how your body reacts to things. So for me, it's infections. So an infection can very
quickly become life threatening. And anything that's too much for my body. So any of us can
cause these metabolic strokes. And it's basically kind of an autoimmune where it's through my
metabolic mitochondrial and nervous system. So they're all combined. And yeah, it can cause
things like seizures, vision issues, hearing issues. And usually it is diagnosed when you're
a child, you're normally born with it. And it is an incurable disease. I mean, it was only
discovered mitochondrial disorders were only discovered 30 years ago. So in medical world,
it's still a very new discovery. So there's not much treatment options out there yet.
And physio obviously have the spinal point of view of the physio of the spinal injury treatment.
But then there's also this area of we have to be careful and push my body too much because
obviously energy is a big thing too. Yeah. So you've been in the hospital since March.
Oh, yeah. What does a typical day look like? And I guess kind of what are you, what's like the
outlook? Kind of what are you working towards? Or what are the qualifications I guess that you
have to meet to be discharged or head back home? Or what's preventing you from heading home?
Yeah, so I mean, a daily, a kind of a day in the hospital, it's not the most exciting, but
I hope you have physio every day, which just like for like 45 minutes an hour sometimes,
lots of friends and family coming in and bringing me food that's edible, unlike the hospital food.
And it's a lot of like consultations with doctors and things like that. And at the moment,
we are in the process of planning home. But we also have been for two months because it is quite
complex. Like, you know, I did come into hospital in a wheelchair, but now because of the damage and
my physical ability, I need a more supportive one. So my house having to be more adapted,
care for in place. But also, you know, the doctors do tell me, you know, it's all about care and
comfort. It's not about treatment. So Stacey, Mellas, or mitochondria is a terminal diagnosis
because there is no treatment out there. But then I see it is, they don't know much about it. I'm
already a very rare case as it is. So they don't know what the outlook is. So for me, that's a
positive thing because as soon as I home, you know, I'm going to get back into the gym and back to
training. Because after all, training sort of saved my life so many times being physically fit,
going into all these injuries and setbacks, my body's had a better baseline than maybe some others.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, they typically say with TBI's and SEI's, the more fit you were before the
accident, the more likely you will be to recover or at least improve from a baseline standpoint.
I just like some, I guess, I know you've been on a couple different podcasts and recently and
it's tough to like ask about some of these things, I guess, like your outlook on something when it's
when it's labeled terminal, like I guess how you even handle that. And I guess like when
when you were first diagnosed with Miele, maybe like, what was your first impression or what were
your first thoughts? Yeah, so they came in and my mom was here, they asked how to be here and they
told my mom to sit down. So I immediately knew something wasn't good. And when they said what I
had, you know, it's mitochondrial condition, I was like, we finally have answers. Good, like I was
so happy. I was like, I asked them, I was like, what do we do? What treatment can I take? What
medication will work? And that's when of course they said there is nothing. And I just remember
my stomach and my heart just dropped and sank. And it was definitely a very scary moment for all of us.
There was a bittersweet, obviously we have answers yet. It's not the answer anyone would ever want.
But I'm very stubborn. And then saying, you know, all these things that you're not going to get better,
you're not going to do this kind of lit this fire and mean, like, you don't know me, just you wait
and see and I will prove you wrong. I've done it before and I'm going to do it again. So that
continues to kind of be my outlook, I think that, you know, I just need to get back in a boat. It's
worked so many times before and it's my happy place and training. And as I said, neuroplasticity and
assistive and obviously mental health wise, it's so important for me.
Yeah, absolutely. Looking forward to following along with that transition. Is there,
how do I want to phrase this? So sometimes we'll hear with like the disability or the adaptive
space where disability is viewed as an inspiration. So it's a question that we've been asking some
of the guests, like, do you want to be considered inspirational or what do you want to be known
as as an athlete? I think sometimes it's hard when people call me inspirational or strong and things
like that because I definitely get imposter syndrome and I'm like, well, I don't know, like, you know,
I haven't done everything and I'm quite hard on myself. I'm like, I haven't won a Paralympic Gold
yet. And I think it is sometimes easy for people to say that to someone who's especially struggling
or doing well, but at the same time, I just want to be viewed as any other athlete that's doing well.
And with my story, I just want to share awareness of this condition, but also hope more than anything.
And I don't tend to view myself as an inspiration. As I said, like, you know, I still feel I've got
so much more to achieve before I deserve that title. Have you met anyone else that has Milos
or have you connected with anyone with the same diagnosis? No, so as I said, it's many childhood
and unfortunately, when you do have it as a child, you die in early years. So I am a very rare case,
one of the only in the world. So it's very hard to find people in a similar position,
especially because I'm so cognitively aware, which again is very rare for this disease. Normally,
you know, with the brain lesions, it does affect your cognitive processing. But so I'm just a bit
of a rare case, a bit of a miracle in their eyes at the moment. What was maybe we can look at this
through like a fitness lens. So you were you were participating in adaptive CrossFit as well.
What do you think gyms need to do, I guess, to be more accessible and inclusive?
I think going into a gym in a wheelchair is quite daunting because you're surrounded by all these
able-bodied people, you know, doing different things. And I'm never going to ask them for help,
you know, when equipment, I can't reach it or it's in the way and things like that. And I think
some gyms are set up here that are very close together. So it's really hard to access certain
things. I think the gym industry needs to be more aware of accessibility needs. So a lot of gyms
local to me didn't have lifts or, you know, one had disabled toilet bills on the top floor and
there was no lift to it. So there are these barriers still there. And I think, you know,
I was an athlete before, so sports always been what I'd love. And that's why I went back to it.
And I think as someone who hasn't had that before and going in, you know, as a less able person,
it is difficult. And I think there just needs to be more awareness out there in a way of like,
you know, when they're planning the gyms, they need to think more of spacing and adaptions. And
but then again, I also experienced a lot of people kind of pity you in a way and they want to then
overly help you. And sometimes you just want to get on with it yourself and test your own limits
and barriers. And I'd be doing things and people will be watching up, should she be doing that?
Like, is that okay? And that also really frustrated me, because I just want to be seen as anyone
else that goes to the gym. Like, you know, I'm there to get fit, healthy and feel good,
just like everyone else, no matter my ability. Yeah, yeah, we, we talk about that as like a
charity model of disability, where people with disabilities are seen as someone less than who
has to be helped by this able bodied person, night and shining armor comes to save them,
etc. And it's kind of how it's portrayed and like literature and movies a lot of the time, whereas
we want to like, kind of normalize disability, like you said, it's part of an educational process.
And I think a lot of times, people just aren't immersed alongside people with disabilities,
so they don't even know how to act. It's like they feel like they're gonna say something wrong,
or they're going to offend the individual if they even try to interact with them. So that's been,
it's been a tough thing to navigate, for sure. Yeah, I feel like people don't always know what
to say, and they're walking on eggshells around you, because, as you said, they don't want to
say the wrong thing. It's something that's overcompensate. And you know, it does feel like
they're looking down at you at times. And that is definitely hard. And it is still a barrier out there.
Did you find the coaches to be pretty accommodating with what you needed?
Yeah, so I was really lucky where I, the gym I joined is amazing. And they'd had a girl in a
wheelchair similar age before. So they kind of learned from that experience too. And they were
really good at, they did let me get on with it. And they were there to help. And you know,
it became a very friendly environment, which was really inviting. So then, you know, I became excited
to go to gym. I wasn't nervous anymore. And I think I was very competitive. You know, I was always
challenging the over-body people to do things like chin ups and everything like that, which was,
for me, a very empowering thing to do. What are your goals for 2024? What do you kind of see the
next year looking like? So obviously, to get back in the GB team and qualify again,
and get back on the Paralympic pathway. And I'd like to attend the World Championships as, well,
let's get more involved in other sports. You know, I'd like to get involved in, obviously, back to
CrossFit and do the CrossFit games. But also triathlon. I'd love to do paratriathlon and really
just try out all these sports that are out there. Because now I've got the opportunity to, I'd love
to give you a wheelchair rugby ago as well. That's awesome. Yeah, what, if people are listening and
investing in your story, I guess, how can they help you or how can they support you?
I guess it's all about spreading awareness. And I've tried to, through this journey, be a lot
more open with the truth and, you know, both the good and the bad. And I think trying to bring
awareness to this rare mitochondrial disorder is really important. But also sharing my story of hope
and hopefully, you know, when I'm back in that boat and I'm back competing, showing people that no
matter what your disability is, and no matter what you're told, it matters what you believe,
not what everyone else believes. So I guess it's just help sharing my story and sharing what I'm
doing. And, you know, I'm trying to show people that it's always possible, especially in the
fitness industry. And I'm working on developing a kind of program for people near me who've gone
through spinal injuries in the local spinal units to get into Paralympic sports and kind of join
all these things that are out there, the pathways, which is really well funded. And you meet other
people like you because I've never really met someone young and in a wheelchair until I started
growing with the Paralympic team. How important do you think representation is in sport?
I think it's really important because I watched, you know, the Paralympics all through my time
kayaking and rowing and I found it, it was incredible. And I was like, especially when I
went through the injury and knowing that was there was really important. And if it wasn't so,
you know, put on TV more and things like that, then people might not know it's out there all
the time. I knew because I did the sport before. And I think it needs to be shown more and
more in the fitness industry. Like personal trainers knowing more about how to do PT sessions with
adapted athletes and how to accommodate their needs, but still reach those goals they want to have.
Yeah, I hope more fitness professionals can view adaptive fitness from like a performance lens and
not always like a rehabilitative lens. We make sure that we communicate that we're not doing
like physical therapy, we're taking whatever your goal is. So if it's to get back in a boat, like,
okay, what physical ability do you need to be successful with that and then catering the
workout to that. And I think a lot of people view disability and injuries synonymously. So they're
kind of afraid that they're going to hurt the individual, but at the same way, I guess in the
same lens, like if you just kind of take what the individual is able to do, what they need to be able
to do and kind of work towards that goal, it's not a whole lot different than training people with
disabilities. So yeah, I agree. And I think as well rehab is more, you know, you're focusing on what
you can't do, whereas sport, you're focusing on what you can do. I think that's really important.
Like for me, when I went back to the gym, got back in a boat, I felt like I was living again,
not just existing. I think that's really important for people out there to realize that sport, you
know, you're using every capability, any capability you have to get out there, have fun and do what
others are doing. Yeah, that was a conversation that I've had with a client recently where
long stint in rehabilitation after a stroke and kind of talking about how now like, we're working
on specific goals, it's not about recovering what you lost, but it's about like getting to where you
want to be. So it's biking better, swimming better, doing the things that you want to accomplish.
And I guess to a degree, you almost like have to kind of hit a reset button and reevaluate goals and
like have something to work towards. But that's really no different than like every few years,
I guess from my career, I have a different goal, I want to work on something. And so I guess the
injury is kind of the same way we have a quote in the course that says like life does not end with
a with a disability it begins, which is from like Ernst van Dyke, who's a famous wheelchair
racer, has won Boston a bunch of times. And that can be true. But I guess I'm just speaking on
from experience of conversations that I've had with people. So
no, I couldn't agree more. And I think sport kind of got me that strength back. And I
I every time I went back to training, my progress was so much more but without me even realizing
that without me focusing on it, it came as kind of a secondary to me wanting to compete because
I'm a very competitive person. And as you said, like goals do change and you know,
mind changed from the Olympics, the Paralympics, but it's still my goal at the end of the day.
And obviously, I'm still doing the same sport, but it's slightly different and it's had to be
adapted. But I can still do it. Yeah, the coverage on the last Paralympics games, I think was really
important. And I'm sure Paris will have equal amounts of television presence and stuff, at least
in the States, they made a really strong push with the most recent games to document and
show more of it. And I think that's really played a large role. I guess I see like more
track and field inclusion and diversity in some of these larger meets in the States here. So I
hope that trend continues obviously and give adaptive athletes the platform that they deserve.
For sure. I mean, we just we have Wimbledon this summer, the big tennis tournament. And it was the
first time they really televised the wheelchair tennis, which is a truly remarkable sport. I mean,
they're so talented and what they do. And I think it was a big step in the right direction for
tennis at such a big event as well. I think it was really good. Absolutely. Maybe as one other
question that we sometimes ask our guests, like, do you have any disdain towards the word disabled?
Are you comfortable considering yourself someone with a disability or do you like a different
terminology? Because I think that's one thing that a lot of people get hung up on when communicating
with people with disabilities is like the jargon and the terminology.
For sure. I think it took me a long time to accept that word. And now I can have own it.
And I know it took a long time for my mom to accept it. She said, no, you're not disabled,
you know, but at the same time, I am. But I tend to more say I'm less able or, you know, I,
I mean, disabled we do use, but I tend to avoid it and all honesty, especially when it comes to
sport, I use the word adapted a lot. You know, I'm an adapted rower. I'm not, you know, disabled
right. I'm adapted. Because it's a little bit different. Para, para and adaptive seem like
they're perfectly useful terms, I guess, in that scenario. And I can't really envision like
any scenarios and conversation where I would have to say, oh, that's the disabled athlete. And
that's the able bodied athlete. It's just, I think sometimes you hear both sides of the
like coin with with some of the terminology. And I think it often presents or prevents people from
even communicating with someone with a disability because they're afraid that they're going to offend.
So I don't know if there's really an answer to like clarifying some of that. It seems like every
person I ask has a slightly different opinion. But at the end of the day, like you said, you don't
really need to have that that term, I guess, labeled to you, you can just you can be a para
athlete, you can be a para rower, you can be an adaptive athlete. So it's just a question that I
like to like to hear firsthand, I guess, examples of it, and hear from you instead of me bestowing
upon other people what my thoughts are. So, Georgia, thank you for sharing your story.
We'll be pulling for you and I'll make sure we link your profiles and stuff. And if anyone wants to
follow along with your return to Paralympic sport. But again, really appreciate you joining us from
overseas here and sharing your story. Well, thank you for having me. Thank you so much.
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