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All right, welcome to the AdaptX podcast.

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We are joined by guests who are building accessible businesses

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or products advocating for inclusion

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or excelling in adaptive sports.

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Our intention is never to speak on behalf of those

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with disabilities, but rather advocate on their behalf

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and amplify their voice.

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Today I'm joined by Georgia Carmichael,

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a world-class athlete who's been dealt

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with a rather unfortunate hand.

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This is a conversation that I've been looking forward to

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for a while, joining us all the way from Great Britain, right?

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Yes, yeah.

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Welcome overseas.

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So, Georgia, thank you for joining us today.

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Thank you for having me.

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So maybe let's start with your first introduction to sports.

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So kayaking was your passion.

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So kind of when did you...

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When were you first introduced to the sport?

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How old were you when you started?

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So I started when I was 10,

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just because the area I lived in is a very water sport-based town.

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And it was the year of the Olympics.

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And so I was kind of motivated by that

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and I started kayaking.

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And I came off the water after my first session

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and I told my mum I was going to go to the Olympics.

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So very early on it became my big dream.

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Maybe it's not quite as popular in the States,

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in the US here, but maybe like,

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for people that aren't familiar with the sport as a whole,

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can you maybe summarize what competitions like,

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kind of how courses are structured?

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Yeah, so I do with kayaking and rowing.

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So they're both flat water.

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The kayaking consists of sprints or marathons.

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So sprints are genuinely, you know, 200, 500,000 meters.

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A marathon depends on your age.

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So as a junior, it was kind of up to about 25 kilometers.

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And then obviously rowing,

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you have normally just a two kilometer race, so 2000 meters.

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Okay. Are the boats different

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as the composition of people in the boat different?

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Yeah, so with kayaking, you have like K1, K2 and K4.

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And it stands for kayak one, kayak two.

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So how many people are in the boat?

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And then rowing, you can also have the same one, two, four

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and also eight.

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Okay.

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So at 15, you represented your country

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at the World Championships.

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Maybe explain a little bit about that experience

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and the success of it.

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Yeah. So I went in kind of the underdog.

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I was the youngest to have a go.

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So no one really knew what was coming out of it.

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We kind of were told this is going to be a big lesson for you

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and that would be good to learn from the older athletes.

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And as you remember, being on the start line,

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this tiny 15 year old surrounded by all these very strong

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looking 18 year olds up to me at that time looked old.

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So it's quite daunting, but yeah,

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it was very exciting at the same time.

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What was the distance for that race?

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So in this one I was doing, because it was marathon,

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but you also have a short course added in.

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So it was a five kilometer race as well as the 21 kilometer race.

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How long does that take the longer, the 21 kilometer?

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It takes about an hour and a half

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because you also have something called portages during it.

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So portages is where you have to get out and run with your boat.

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Usually in the UK, it's on rivers over these like locks

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that you can't paddle through.

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And so to keep it continuous with all the races,

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they added it in and so a lot of beach portages,

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we have to actually jump out your boat halfway through paddling

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into shallow water and then run maybe about up to 200 meters.

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Okay. All right.

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I hadn't even envisioned that that was part of the event

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as a whole. That's interesting.

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So shortly after that success,

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just through some of the stuff I've read,

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referred to it as an injury and accident,

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can you maybe kind of take us through what happened

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and maybe symptomatically what you were feeling

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and then how that manifested?

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Yeah. So obviously you returned from winning the two golds at the World Championships,

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returned home and shortly after,

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I fell from a height and hit the back of my head,

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which unfortunately led to my first brain injury.

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So obviously being 15, it was tough and I wasn't very aware for a little while,

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but it was a challenge to get back.

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I lost my memory, a lot of it.

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So counting and some words were quite tricky and naming things

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as well as I didn't have any balance and coordination.

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So I kind of had to relearn that,

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which took a long time to relearn walking.

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So I spent a couple of months in the hospital

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before I returned home.

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And the first thing I wanted to do was obviously get back in my boat and get back training.

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So it was a TBI, it wasn't a spinal cord injury?

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No. So at this time it was a traumatic brain injury.

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And then symptomatically,

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is that when you were initially diagnosed with FND or was that a later?

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Yeah. So that time I was diagnosed.

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Obviously we found out later, misdiagnosed,

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but at that point I was diagnosed with a neurological condition

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because no one could really understand what was going on at the point.

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Like there were some things that you didn't add up and they didn't know.

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You know, it wasn't so problematic at the time

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because I did recover quite quickly and got back to my sport and kind of put it behind me.

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So were you, was there questioning in the medical community as to like how symptoms were

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being demonstrated and stuff?

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Like were people doubting, I guess, the validity of it?

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Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, I was quite confused in case

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and no one really knew what was going on.

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Hence why I got put under this label.

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Because they use this label a lot to kind of put things in and understand into.

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And at that time, even as a few years,

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the testing for what I now found out I have wasn't really that good.

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So they hadn't even questioned kind of continuing testing

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and they were just waiting and seeing to see if I would got better and if I recovered.

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Yeah, so what did it end up being diagnosed as?

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So I was only diagnosed this year with something called Mellas.

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It's a mitochondrial disorder and obviously it's taken us six years to get to that diagnosis,

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mainly because of the fact it's so raw and I have it sporadically.

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So, you know, my mum doesn't have it, it's usually genetic,

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but no one in my family has it.

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But also I've got it as late onset sort of later.

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And it was only diagnosed because it had progressed so much

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that it was showing up more on scans and tests.

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And even in those few years, six years,

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the testing devices have had advanced enough to get the diagnosis.

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So was it a product of that accident or was it a genetic condition that would have manifested either way?

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So this is what they're still researching because before that date,

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you know, I had no issues before the injury.

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And obviously mitochondria was your energy, so they're like,

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how are you in the athlete and things like that.

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So it's quite confusing at the moment.

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We don't really know, but they're thinking that it was always dormant and I always had it.

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And obviously a trigger to my nervous system, let alone all the other injuries it had,

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must have just been too much for my body.

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And so it started to progress and manifest a lot quickly.

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So after that first accident, you were 16, right?

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Around 16?

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Yeah, I was 16.

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Yeah, I was 16.

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You returned to kayaking, competed at a high level again at 17.

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So that was just in traditional kayaking, right?

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Not Paralympic.

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No, this was just traditional kayaking.

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And I was also doing rowing at this point too.

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But it was just, yeah, I was with the able-bodied athletes at this point

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because I made that for recovery.

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And then did you happen to have another accident or another injury that...

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Yeah, so when I was 16, I said that year, amazing, that I went back to Worlds and got two silvers.

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I went to the Junior Olympics and was travelling all over the world competing.

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And unfortunately, in the December that year, when I was 16,

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I had another brain injury in a bit of a freak accident.

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But this one was a lot worse.

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This was a traumatic brain injury where I spent the next three months in intensive care

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and then went on to spend nine months in rehabilitation, kind of relaunched talk,

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relaunched eat, and I had no movement from the neck down,

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so I had to relearn kind of all movements again.

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And how long?

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You said you were nine months in rehab?

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Yeah, so in total it was a year in hospital and nine months in rehabilitation centre,

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going through like, you know, four hours of physio day, things like that.

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And what was that kind of like from a, I guess, a mindset standpoint?

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So you're a world-class athlete and then you have this accident that puts you into a year-long battle

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to kind of get back to where you were, where there are specific factors that were motivating

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or kind of that kept you engaged during that process?

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I think a lot of the time, my tendons try and treat my physio sessions like training and like a race,

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you know, you leave nothing behind, you give it your all.

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And so that's kind of the approach I took.

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And then also I'd always envisioned when I was 15 crossing that line,

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knowing I'd just won the World Championship from the youngest to it, like that feeling,

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I would visualise that and know that I wanted to get that feeling again.

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You know, I wanted to get back in my boat, I wanted to go win again.

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So that for me was a huge kind of motivator during it.

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So you started rehab with um, paralysed from the neck down and when you finished rehab,

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what were your physical uh, like symptoms and abilities?

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So yeah, so when I went home, I was still paralysed from the waist down

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and I still had some issues with kind of eating and talking, but it was a lot better.

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And I decided I just needed to get home because I wanted to get back in my boat.

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So I went home and a week later sat in my boat, still unable to use my legs,

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but I was off and it felt like I hadn't, you know, not been there that whole time.

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And I knew from that moment, you know, I'm going to get better.

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And six weeks later, I started walking.

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So do you know or do doctors know kind of what happened between that time where you had no

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uh, function below the hip or below the waist and then to the point where you were walking again?

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Was there any connection between the two or?

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Yeah.

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So I think for me and what we think is, you know, being back in a boat where I'd trained for so long

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and spent so many hours in, it was kind of muscle memory for me.

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And you know, that neuroplasticity kicked in and it all just seemed to connect together

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as well as, you know, in my mind and my mindset improved even more because once I was back in that

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boat, I just knew this is what I wanted and I was going to fight for it.

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And I'm still doing rehab every day at home and things like that.

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And it became more sport orientated for me and I'm a very competitive individual.

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So that really helped to enhance my rehab.

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Were there barriers to getting back into the sport from like an accessibility or

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a physical standpoint?

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Yeah, like a lot of my local clubs weren't the most accessible.

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So it was quite hard to get down and get into the boat and train.

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So a lot of times people would have to lift me down steps and things like that, which is quite

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tricky. And at the time I didn't have an adapted boat.

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So I did fall out a lot because obviously without these my legs balancing was a lot harder.

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But over time this did improve and obviously there were still issues like, because I didn't

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really have sensation, I'd get sores a lot on in from the boat.

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So the things we had to kind of adapt around and that took a little bit of time to get used to,

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but we got there.

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Was it at this point where you entered the the gateway program for Paralympics or?

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Yeah, so originally I did and then I actually was able enough to go back fully to the team I

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was in before. So I did go back to that team in the end for a couple years until the other

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accident, which is then when I became their Paralympic athlete.

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Can you maybe take us through that transition between the two? Did it feel different?

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Was there any feeling of like less than or did it just kind of feel like a natural evolution

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and like a just a kind of, I guess a different competition?

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At first it was hard, obviously like leaving my teammates and everything. And I think it was

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quite hard. I love the sport, but it just felt so different now. And it was quite a big barrier

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for me at first. I didn't really want to accept it. And I just continued to want to train with my

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every like, you know, my old team. And that was quite a big mind thing. I like battle I had to

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get through. But the end of the day, I was able to do the sport I loved. So I was just grateful

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that I could be back on the water where I loved being.

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Yeah. Are Paralympics big in your country or do they have a strong presence? Yeah.

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Yes, especially for the rowing team. I mean, recently, for example, they've just come back

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from the world championships and all the boats are qualified for Paris. And, you know,

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they've got loads of them have had world records and stuff. So over here, the rowing and Paralympic

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team is big and really well funded. So obviously that's really good.

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When was timeline wise? When were you competing and kind of I guess when was the last time you

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competed? So the last time I competed was earlier this year in February. Okay. So I had two competitions

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that month in one in rowing, which was trials to get through to the next stage for, you know,

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Paris. And then the other one was a CrossFit competition. So I was doing the other sport I

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did, which was adaptive CrossFit. Yeah, cool. And for the last, how long have you been in the

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hospital now? So I've now been in the hospital for five and a half months, coming up to six months.

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So what happened between those last competitions and then your current stint in the hospital?

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So in it was end of March, I just got really poorly all of a sudden and there was no accident

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or anything. I just clapped at home and we came in and I was back in intensive care and we were

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told I had a spinal stroke. So obviously at this point, we still didn't have a full diagnosis.

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And then this is when the testing began and I got moved to a specialist hospital in London

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where the mitochondrial condition was found, which basically between now and the first accident,

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I've had many IT admissions. I've never been explained and there was really not what's going on.

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And so now we do have answers for that. And this mitochondrial condition is to blame for a lot of

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what I've gone through. And obviously, yeah, so this spinal stroke, having been so high up,

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paralyzed me from the neck down. And the first few weeks, you know, talking, my vision was affected.

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And with mellas, you get lactic acidosis and like strokes, so it can cause lesions on my

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spine or my brain, which is what happened in this case. And that's when you first got introduced

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to like mellas as a diagnosis? Was this most recent? Yeah, yes. Yeah, so it wasn't until it would have

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been June that I got diagnosed because it does take months. And I mean, we still have many

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unanswered questions at the moment, but it takes a lot of time. I mean, the muscle arts, it takes

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six months to come back. Well, okay. All right. Yeah, it's a rare condition. So I'm guessing

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that most people that are listening aren't familiar with it. So do you know enough to maybe give like

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a little bit of a synopsis of what it's like and kind of what the treatment is, what the physio is?

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Yeah, of course. So mitochondrial disorders, basically, your mitochondria produced 90% of your

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energy in your body and yourselves. So when you have this depletion of mitochondria,

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it affects how your body reacts to things. So for me, it's infections. So an infection can very

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quickly become life threatening. And anything that's too much for my body. So any of us can

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cause these metabolic strokes. And it's basically kind of an autoimmune where it's through my

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metabolic mitochondrial and nervous system. So they're all combined. And yeah, it can cause

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things like seizures, vision issues, hearing issues. And usually it is diagnosed when you're

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a child, you're normally born with it. And it is an incurable disease. I mean, it was only

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discovered mitochondrial disorders were only discovered 30 years ago. So in medical world,

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it's still a very new discovery. So there's not much treatment options out there yet.

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And physio obviously have the spinal point of view of the physio of the spinal injury treatment.

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But then there's also this area of we have to be careful and push my body too much because

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obviously energy is a big thing too. Yeah. So you've been in the hospital since March.

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Oh, yeah. What does a typical day look like? And I guess kind of what are you, what's like the

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outlook? Kind of what are you working towards? Or what are the qualifications I guess that you

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have to meet to be discharged or head back home? Or what's preventing you from heading home?

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Yeah, so I mean, a daily, a kind of a day in the hospital, it's not the most exciting, but

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I hope you have physio every day, which just like for like 45 minutes an hour sometimes,

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lots of friends and family coming in and bringing me food that's edible, unlike the hospital food.

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And it's a lot of like consultations with doctors and things like that. And at the moment,

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we are in the process of planning home. But we also have been for two months because it is quite

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complex. Like, you know, I did come into hospital in a wheelchair, but now because of the damage and

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my physical ability, I need a more supportive one. So my house having to be more adapted,

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care for in place. But also, you know, the doctors do tell me, you know, it's all about care and

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comfort. It's not about treatment. So Stacey, Mellas, or mitochondria is a terminal diagnosis

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because there is no treatment out there. But then I see it is, they don't know much about it. I'm

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already a very rare case as it is. So they don't know what the outlook is. So for me, that's a

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positive thing because as soon as I home, you know, I'm going to get back into the gym and back to

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training. Because after all, training sort of saved my life so many times being physically fit,

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going into all these injuries and setbacks, my body's had a better baseline than maybe some others.

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Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, they typically say with TBI's and SEI's, the more fit you were before the

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accident, the more likely you will be to recover or at least improve from a baseline standpoint.

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I just like some, I guess, I know you've been on a couple different podcasts and recently and

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it's tough to like ask about some of these things, I guess, like your outlook on something when it's

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when it's labeled terminal, like I guess how you even handle that. And I guess like when

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when you were first diagnosed with Miele, maybe like, what was your first impression or what were

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your first thoughts? Yeah, so they came in and my mom was here, they asked how to be here and they

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told my mom to sit down. So I immediately knew something wasn't good. And when they said what I

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had, you know, it's mitochondrial condition, I was like, we finally have answers. Good, like I was

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so happy. I was like, I asked them, I was like, what do we do? What treatment can I take? What

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medication will work? And that's when of course they said there is nothing. And I just remember

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my stomach and my heart just dropped and sank. And it was definitely a very scary moment for all of us.

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There was a bittersweet, obviously we have answers yet. It's not the answer anyone would ever want.

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But I'm very stubborn. And then saying, you know, all these things that you're not going to get better,

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you're not going to do this kind of lit this fire and mean, like, you don't know me, just you wait

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and see and I will prove you wrong. I've done it before and I'm going to do it again. So that

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continues to kind of be my outlook, I think that, you know, I just need to get back in a boat. It's

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worked so many times before and it's my happy place and training. And as I said, neuroplasticity and

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assistive and obviously mental health wise, it's so important for me.

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Yeah, absolutely. Looking forward to following along with that transition. Is there,

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how do I want to phrase this? So sometimes we'll hear with like the disability or the adaptive

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space where disability is viewed as an inspiration. So it's a question that we've been asking some

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of the guests, like, do you want to be considered inspirational or what do you want to be known

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as as an athlete? I think sometimes it's hard when people call me inspirational or strong and things

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like that because I definitely get imposter syndrome and I'm like, well, I don't know, like, you know,

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I haven't done everything and I'm quite hard on myself. I'm like, I haven't won a Paralympic Gold

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yet. And I think it is sometimes easy for people to say that to someone who's especially struggling

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or doing well, but at the same time, I just want to be viewed as any other athlete that's doing well.

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And with my story, I just want to share awareness of this condition, but also hope more than anything.

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And I don't tend to view myself as an inspiration. As I said, like, you know, I still feel I've got

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so much more to achieve before I deserve that title. Have you met anyone else that has Milos

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or have you connected with anyone with the same diagnosis? No, so as I said, it's many childhood

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and unfortunately, when you do have it as a child, you die in early years. So I am a very rare case,

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one of the only in the world. So it's very hard to find people in a similar position,

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especially because I'm so cognitively aware, which again is very rare for this disease. Normally,

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you know, with the brain lesions, it does affect your cognitive processing. But so I'm just a bit

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of a rare case, a bit of a miracle in their eyes at the moment. What was maybe we can look at this

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through like a fitness lens. So you were you were participating in adaptive CrossFit as well.

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What do you think gyms need to do, I guess, to be more accessible and inclusive?

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I think going into a gym in a wheelchair is quite daunting because you're surrounded by all these

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able-bodied people, you know, doing different things. And I'm never going to ask them for help,

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you know, when equipment, I can't reach it or it's in the way and things like that. And I think

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some gyms are set up here that are very close together. So it's really hard to access certain

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things. I think the gym industry needs to be more aware of accessibility needs. So a lot of gyms

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local to me didn't have lifts or, you know, one had disabled toilet bills on the top floor and

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there was no lift to it. So there are these barriers still there. And I think, you know,

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I was an athlete before, so sports always been what I'd love. And that's why I went back to it.

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And I think as someone who hasn't had that before and going in, you know, as a less able person,

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it is difficult. And I think there just needs to be more awareness out there in a way of like,

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you know, when they're planning the gyms, they need to think more of spacing and adaptions. And

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but then again, I also experienced a lot of people kind of pity you in a way and they want to then

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overly help you. And sometimes you just want to get on with it yourself and test your own limits

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and barriers. And I'd be doing things and people will be watching up, should she be doing that?

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Like, is that okay? And that also really frustrated me, because I just want to be seen as anyone

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else that goes to the gym. Like, you know, I'm there to get fit, healthy and feel good,

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just like everyone else, no matter my ability. Yeah, yeah, we, we talk about that as like a

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charity model of disability, where people with disabilities are seen as someone less than who

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has to be helped by this able bodied person, night and shining armor comes to save them,

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etc. And it's kind of how it's portrayed and like literature and movies a lot of the time, whereas

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we want to like, kind of normalize disability, like you said, it's part of an educational process.

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And I think a lot of times, people just aren't immersed alongside people with disabilities,

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so they don't even know how to act. It's like they feel like they're gonna say something wrong,

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or they're going to offend the individual if they even try to interact with them. So that's been,

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it's been a tough thing to navigate, for sure. Yeah, I feel like people don't always know what

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to say, and they're walking on eggshells around you, because, as you said, they don't want to

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say the wrong thing. It's something that's overcompensate. And you know, it does feel like

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they're looking down at you at times. And that is definitely hard. And it is still a barrier out there.

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Did you find the coaches to be pretty accommodating with what you needed?

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Yeah, so I was really lucky where I, the gym I joined is amazing. And they'd had a girl in a

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wheelchair similar age before. So they kind of learned from that experience too. And they were

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really good at, they did let me get on with it. And they were there to help. And you know,

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it became a very friendly environment, which was really inviting. So then, you know, I became excited

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to go to gym. I wasn't nervous anymore. And I think I was very competitive. You know, I was always

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challenging the over-body people to do things like chin ups and everything like that, which was,

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for me, a very empowering thing to do. What are your goals for 2024? What do you kind of see the

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next year looking like? So obviously, to get back in the GB team and qualify again,

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and get back on the Paralympic pathway. And I'd like to attend the World Championships as, well,

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let's get more involved in other sports. You know, I'd like to get involved in, obviously, back to

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CrossFit and do the CrossFit games. But also triathlon. I'd love to do paratriathlon and really

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just try out all these sports that are out there. Because now I've got the opportunity to, I'd love

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to give you a wheelchair rugby ago as well. That's awesome. Yeah, what, if people are listening and

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investing in your story, I guess, how can they help you or how can they support you?

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I guess it's all about spreading awareness. And I've tried to, through this journey, be a lot

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more open with the truth and, you know, both the good and the bad. And I think trying to bring

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awareness to this rare mitochondrial disorder is really important. But also sharing my story of hope

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and hopefully, you know, when I'm back in that boat and I'm back competing, showing people that no

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matter what your disability is, and no matter what you're told, it matters what you believe,

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not what everyone else believes. So I guess it's just help sharing my story and sharing what I'm

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doing. And, you know, I'm trying to show people that it's always possible, especially in the

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fitness industry. And I'm working on developing a kind of program for people near me who've gone

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through spinal injuries in the local spinal units to get into Paralympic sports and kind of join

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all these things that are out there, the pathways, which is really well funded. And you meet other

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people like you because I've never really met someone young and in a wheelchair until I started

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growing with the Paralympic team. How important do you think representation is in sport?

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I think it's really important because I watched, you know, the Paralympics all through my time

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kayaking and rowing and I found it, it was incredible. And I was like, especially when I

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went through the injury and knowing that was there was really important. And if it wasn't so,

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you know, put on TV more and things like that, then people might not know it's out there all

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the time. I knew because I did the sport before. And I think it needs to be shown more and

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more in the fitness industry. Like personal trainers knowing more about how to do PT sessions with

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adapted athletes and how to accommodate their needs, but still reach those goals they want to have.

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Yeah, I hope more fitness professionals can view adaptive fitness from like a performance lens and

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not always like a rehabilitative lens. We make sure that we communicate that we're not doing

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like physical therapy, we're taking whatever your goal is. So if it's to get back in a boat, like,

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okay, what physical ability do you need to be successful with that and then catering the

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workout to that. And I think a lot of people view disability and injuries synonymously. So they're

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kind of afraid that they're going to hurt the individual, but at the same way, I guess in the

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same lens, like if you just kind of take what the individual is able to do, what they need to be able

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to do and kind of work towards that goal, it's not a whole lot different than training people with

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disabilities. So yeah, I agree. And I think as well rehab is more, you know, you're focusing on what

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you can't do, whereas sport, you're focusing on what you can do. I think that's really important.

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Like for me, when I went back to the gym, got back in a boat, I felt like I was living again,

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not just existing. I think that's really important for people out there to realize that sport, you

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know, you're using every capability, any capability you have to get out there, have fun and do what

400
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others are doing. Yeah, that was a conversation that I've had with a client recently where

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long stint in rehabilitation after a stroke and kind of talking about how now like, we're working

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on specific goals, it's not about recovering what you lost, but it's about like getting to where you

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want to be. So it's biking better, swimming better, doing the things that you want to accomplish.

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And I guess to a degree, you almost like have to kind of hit a reset button and reevaluate goals and

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like have something to work towards. But that's really no different than like every few years,

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I guess from my career, I have a different goal, I want to work on something. And so I guess the

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injury is kind of the same way we have a quote in the course that says like life does not end with

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a with a disability it begins, which is from like Ernst van Dyke, who's a famous wheelchair

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racer, has won Boston a bunch of times. And that can be true. But I guess I'm just speaking on

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from experience of conversations that I've had with people. So

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no, I couldn't agree more. And I think sport kind of got me that strength back. And I

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I every time I went back to training, my progress was so much more but without me even realizing

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that without me focusing on it, it came as kind of a secondary to me wanting to compete because

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I'm a very competitive person. And as you said, like goals do change and you know,

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mind changed from the Olympics, the Paralympics, but it's still my goal at the end of the day.

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And obviously, I'm still doing the same sport, but it's slightly different and it's had to be

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adapted. But I can still do it. Yeah, the coverage on the last Paralympics games, I think was really

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important. And I'm sure Paris will have equal amounts of television presence and stuff, at least

419
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in the States, they made a really strong push with the most recent games to document and

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show more of it. And I think that's really played a large role. I guess I see like more

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track and field inclusion and diversity in some of these larger meets in the States here. So I

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hope that trend continues obviously and give adaptive athletes the platform that they deserve.

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For sure. I mean, we just we have Wimbledon this summer, the big tennis tournament. And it was the

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first time they really televised the wheelchair tennis, which is a truly remarkable sport. I mean,

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they're so talented and what they do. And I think it was a big step in the right direction for

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tennis at such a big event as well. I think it was really good. Absolutely. Maybe as one other

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question that we sometimes ask our guests, like, do you have any disdain towards the word disabled?

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Are you comfortable considering yourself someone with a disability or do you like a different

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terminology? Because I think that's one thing that a lot of people get hung up on when communicating

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with people with disabilities is like the jargon and the terminology.

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For sure. I think it took me a long time to accept that word. And now I can have own it.

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And I know it took a long time for my mom to accept it. She said, no, you're not disabled,

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you know, but at the same time, I am. But I tend to more say I'm less able or, you know, I,

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I mean, disabled we do use, but I tend to avoid it and all honesty, especially when it comes to

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sport, I use the word adapted a lot. You know, I'm an adapted rower. I'm not, you know, disabled

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right. I'm adapted. Because it's a little bit different. Para, para and adaptive seem like

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they're perfectly useful terms, I guess, in that scenario. And I can't really envision like

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any scenarios and conversation where I would have to say, oh, that's the disabled athlete. And

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that's the able bodied athlete. It's just, I think sometimes you hear both sides of the

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like coin with with some of the terminology. And I think it often presents or prevents people from

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even communicating with someone with a disability because they're afraid that they're going to offend.

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So I don't know if there's really an answer to like clarifying some of that. It seems like every

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person I ask has a slightly different opinion. But at the end of the day, like you said, you don't

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really need to have that that term, I guess, labeled to you, you can just you can be a para

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athlete, you can be a para rower, you can be an adaptive athlete. So it's just a question that I

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like to like to hear firsthand, I guess, examples of it, and hear from you instead of me bestowing

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upon other people what my thoughts are. So, Georgia, thank you for sharing your story.

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We'll be pulling for you and I'll make sure we link your profiles and stuff. And if anyone wants to

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follow along with your return to Paralympic sport. But again, really appreciate you joining us from

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overseas here and sharing your story. Well, thank you for having me. Thank you so much.

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Thank you for listening to the AdaptX podcast. Our effort to amplify the ideas of our guests and

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create more inclusive and accessible industries is futile unless these episodes reach a larger

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audience. If you enjoyed our discussion today, please leave us a rating or review on whichever

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platform you use. And if you would like to learn more about AdaptX, the course that we teach to

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health and fitness professionals in the projects that our organization is working on, you can

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subscribe to our newsletter through our website, www.adaptx.org. Until next Monday.