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So, welcome to the AdaptX podcast where we have discussions with individuals who are

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building accessible businesses or products advocating for inclusion or excelling in adaptive

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sports.

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Our intention is never to speak on behalf of those with disabilities, but rather to amplify

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your ideas, voice it, and learn strategies to scale our impact and help other businesses

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become more inclusive and accessible.

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Today I'm joined by Terence Reuben, a physical therapist, athlete, and advocate for inclusion

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and endurance sports.

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He is one of the original co-founders of my team Triumph, an organization founded in

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2008 in his hometown of Grand Rapids, Michigan.

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The organization has the mission of enhancing the health and well-being of individuals with

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disabilities by fostering lasting, authentic relationships through the teamwork environment

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of endurance athletics.

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Obviously a topic that I'm passionate about as well through my involvement with Team Hoice.

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Terence, thank you for joining us today.

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Thank you, it's my pleasure to be on your podcast.

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Before we talk about your work as a physical therapist and non-profit organization, my team

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Triumph, I'd like to talk a little bit about your upbringing.

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You grew up in Apartheid, South Africa, the African word for apartness, where there was

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a series of laws that segregated the population by race.

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I believe there are four classifications, white, Indian, colored, and black.

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And while it was most prevalent in the 1940s and the decades following, it stems back to

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the early 20th century.

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How did all of this affect your childhood or maybe the generation prior to your parents?

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Yeah, it was a very interesting upbringing and especially the one correction would be

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that the category that I was in was an Asian category, not an Indian category.

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And so anyone from Asia was grouped into the same group as I was.

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In terms of the official law going into effect, that was done in 1948.

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So it was very recent if you look at the historical timeline, but at the same time the idea of

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segregation sort of got built into the culture, as you say, even before then.

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And so for my parents growing up, they were so used to being segregated that they just

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lived within the confines of that, whether it meant going to a different beach or taking

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a different bus or just living in a different neighborhood.

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That was the status quo.

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That's what they accepted.

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During my generation, especially as we got into the early 80s, is when the revolution

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really started as to try to figure out how do we just change this idea of oppression.

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And we also had more support across the bandwidth of all four racial groups that supported this

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idea of integration instead of segregation.

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And so my journey has been very interesting because I started being born in the late 60s.

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In the early 70s, you kind of had to live with what the parents lived with and took

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that as the status quo.

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But then as you got a little wiser and you got a little older, you realized that this

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was wrong on so many levels.

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And the human spirit should not be confined to a description of just your skin color.

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And in the context of this conversation, it shouldn't be defined by the level of ability

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or disability.

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And so as a means of leveling the playing field at a young age, I took it upon myself

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to figure out how do we shift the needle, how do we move the bar, and not to just accept

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the status quo but to challenge it.

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And that kind of became the foundational part of who I am today at the age of 56.

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So continuing to challenge the status quo and not accepting things the way they are.

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Yeah, I was going to ask if the politics and just kind of your childhood influenced your

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approach to inclusion today.

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I would imagine there's a lot of parallels between the two.

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Yeah, it has.

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And I think on one end, there are people that lived through what I did and were very bitter

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from that experience and then almost created their own sort of reverse apartheid as they

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got more educated and got into owning their own businesses and companies.

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I, on the other hand, decided to take a different approach of just living the brightest light

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that I could live.

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I grew up in a family of faith with my dad being a pastor, my mom being a missionary,

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and our whole idea at home was always to leave the community in a better place than we found

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it.

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So whatever that meant, whether it was in work and how we lived and how we played sport,

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whatever we did, the glory was beyond us.

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So from that faith background, it's really helped to define the things that I currently

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do in my life.

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Was the schooling process different by those four different classifications?

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Were you aware through elementary school and middle school that you didn't have the same

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opportunities as others?

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Oh, absolutely.

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Yeah.

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I mean, even in segregation, as they tiered the racial divide by Caucasian or white being

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the top level, the next level were the Asians, which is the category in which I fell into.

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The third level down were the Colors.

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And Colors were not referencing African folk, but was referencing people that were the offspring

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of a Caucasian and a local African marriage.

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So they actually made that a whole category of colored people, and then the people at

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the bottom of the tier, so to speak, were the local African people.

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And so everything got tiered around that, whether it was the best locations where you

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could live, to the kind of school system that you had, to the level of education that you

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had, and the sad part about having those four categories, the local African folk being at

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the bottom of that tier were always at a disadvantage because they had the lowest level of education.

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So when it came to going to college, everyone had to compete at the same level to get in.

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So as you can imagine, just based on that, the Caucasians were the highest number of

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folks that got into advanced education or college degrees.

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The Asians were second to that by a huge margin, and then the Colors and the local African.

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And so even in my fight to get up there, we as young kids, especially in the Indian community,

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the Indian community in general was sort of very entrepreneurial, and they pushed the

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kids to get into education or economics or healthcare or law or finance, and those were

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the sort of, we called them the big five.

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And so I ended up getting into healthcare, and my sister got into education, my brother

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got into finance, but you were driven by some unknown force throughout your childhood to

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do this as the level of accomplishment.

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So to get into college, we had to work really hard to get there, and I'm used to the struggle

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and not using that as an excuse, but using that as a step up to the next level.

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Yeah, so you started university in 86?

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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I started high school in 85, started my first year in 86, did my first degree majoring in

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microbiology and physiology, which then set a foundation for me to go into the physical

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therapy program three years later, which is not necessary in South Africa.

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You can go straight into the PT program there.

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The education system is very different than it is here in the US, but I'm thankful to

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have had that foundational background because it then gave me a little bit more of a scientific

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research-based approach to everything that I do as a physical therapist.

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Yeah, correct me if I'm wrong, but during those six years, so Mandela was released from

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prison in 1990, and then a lot of the apartheid laws were abolished in 1991.

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Did that change your university experience or did the structure of the schools change

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at all during that time?

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No, not at all.

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The structure only officially changed in 1994 during the first election.

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So even though there was a withering away of some of these rules and laws, the community

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hadn't changed.

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I started my physical therapy program in 1989, I believe.

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And that's when I met my wife.

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My wife is Caucasian and Portuguese, so I always say we started a relationship with

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three strikes against me.

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I wasn't white, I wasn't Portuguese, and I didn't fit into that culture that they had

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at the time.

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Did she grow up in South Africa as well?

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Yeah, she was born and raised in South Africa.

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Oh yeah, the third one was I wasn't Catholic.

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So yeah, it was just interesting to think of that as being a barrier to a relationship,

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right?

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But in the bigger sense of things, it also helped mold me to who I am, to be tolerant

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of things that are of that nature, and to raise my kids to understand and know better.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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What were your clinical rotations like during PT school?

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PT school is very interesting in South Africa, very different than the US, very different.

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I always tried to preference that with what we did 30 years ago, because I've been practicing

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now for 30 years.

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So 30, 34 years ago, the programs they were very, very intensely physical therapy.

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You never did any other subject but physical therapy for four years, and in your last two

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years, you did a clinical rotation every day.

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So you did a half a day of clinical, and then a half a day of actual education in the lecture

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hall.

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And so your clinical rotation included working at our acute care hospital, where I went to

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school, was a 2700-bed hospital.

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Your rehab hospital was an 1800-bed hospital.

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So the clinical experience that we had when we was in the acute care system, I mean, everything

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from advanced ICU all the way down to post-surgical, orthopedic, neurological cases, things like

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that.

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And then people that made it through the acute care and were stable but couldn't get home

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safely, we sent to the rehab hospital.

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So we had extensive exposure to all the neurological and orthopedic cases for weeks and months at

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a time.

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So everything from burns cases all the way down to what they call the brown C-card, where

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you get a stab wound and you have motor neuron issues on one side and sensory neuron issues

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on the other side.

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And just like some of the most rare cases, we would see those cases as groups because

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they were that many of them.

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Okay.

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All right.

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What brought you to the States then to practice in the States?

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I love the idea of travel.

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And when I was 20 years old, I made my first, I had been working part-time, saved some money,

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and then went to Europe for six weeks.

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I have family in the Netherlands and aunt and uncle that lived there.

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And so my aunt was one of the earlier people that I knew that was in a mixed marriage relationship.

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And when she, when my uncle and her started dating in South Africa, which was again against

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the law in the 60s, they had to actually flee the country at a certain point and they moved

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to the Netherlands, which is where my uncle was from.

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So I got to do my first vacation there and it really opened up my mind to everything

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that was not South Africa, not in the silos.

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And so then I wanted to travel the rest of the world.

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And of course you go to Europe, the next thing is I want to go to the USA.

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And at that time in the early 90s, there was a huge shortage of physical therapists in

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the US.

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I believe the numbers were like 50 to 80,000 therapists short nationally.

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So they started recruiting from a lot of English speaking countries because in the interim

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of trying to do the recruitment, they were also trying to increase the number of people

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that were admitted to the PT program.

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So I was part of that group that was brought in from South Africa, Australia, New Zealand,

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England, a lot of English speaking countries.

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And some of the therapists are still around today.

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You'll find that that's where they're backgrounds from.

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What was the biggest adjustment initially when you moved to the States?

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That's an interesting question because I grew up with the Brady bunch in 80s enough on

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our TV stations.

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And so you come here expecting this almost sort of perfect world and then you realize

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that it's not.

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So it was almost a little bit of a reality check that all of America, all of the USA wasn't

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this perfect world.

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And there were people that lived very out of the world amazing lives, but there were

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also people that struggled.

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And this population was a lot more diverse than I thought it would be.

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But the other interesting thing I also found that from a racial profiling standpoint, it

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still existed here, but just at a much more subtle level.

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And that took me a little bit to get used to.

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I always felt like in South Africa, I knew what to expect.

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I knew how people felt.

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And so I responded accordingly, whereas when I came to the US, people would say nice things

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but then they would treat you.

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They would still treat you differently.

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So it took me a while to get used to that and not let it bother me.

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Do you feel like that's changed since you moved to the States or is it still pretty

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prominent?

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Oh, I think it is still pretty prominent.

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But again, people can have certain cultural backgrounds and live with certain things that

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they, out of ignorance, rather than a concerted decision to live this way.

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And I think quite often when you meet with them and they get to meet with you, with me

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as a person of color, it's interesting how that changes or that pivots.

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So for example, where I live here in Grand Rapids in West Michigan, there's a lot of

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a Dutch settling.

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And so oftentimes, especially in the early days, people would walk into my practice and

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they would see me and you could see the look in their face like, whoa, I'm in the wrong

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place, I don't know if I want to be here.

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And I will say something like, hello, can I help you?

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And I could hear from the accent that they still have a little bit of the, you know,

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a Dutch accent.

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I would say, Sprikens in Netherlands.

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And they look at me like, wait a minute, did you just speak Dutch?

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Like why do you know that?

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But I grew up in South Africa where Afrikaans, which is a South African language, is 80%

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Dutch.

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And so using the tools and skills I have, I was able to communicate with someone that

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was different.

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And once you found that point of connection, it changed everything.

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And then I became like their favorite therapist and they didn't want to see anyone else.

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So my point again is when people get to, you know you and you get to know them, you can

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always find a place of commonality, a place that you can agree on things.

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And the other part I found that is, you know, in South Africa, you could sit down with a

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group of friends and have completely opposing views on anything from politics to religion,

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but you could still be friends, whereas here people were like, if you're not on the same

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page as me, you're not part of the circle.

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And that took me a while to get used to that because, you know, I have strong views on

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things, but I also respect the views of others.

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And I try to spread that respect amongst my friends to say, okay, it's okay to have a

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different view, but let's respect each other and walk away knowing that we just educate

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ourselves a little bit more.

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Yeah, the previous points you were making have a lot of parallels to working with people

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with disabilities, I feel like building rapport, genuine interest in their motivations and their

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interests and that's kind of how you develop those relationships and you understand how

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they communicate and how they experience the world.

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So I think there's a lot of parallels between acclimating to different cultures and then

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acclimating to different abilities as well.

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You were the director of outpatient services in the sports rehab department, correct, at

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Mary Free Bed.

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Were you recruited by them directly or did you find that position when you got here?

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Well, it was when I first came to the US, I actually came to Michigan because a company

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that recruited me was from a Grand Haven, Michigan.

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And so they gave me an option to work wherever I wanted in the state because there were so

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many openings I could pick and choose and based on me being happy and settled, there

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were a few more colleagues from South Africa that would just follow me based on my words.

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I felt like I was the Joshua of the group, go and see if the land is fruitful and plentiful.

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And so I get my first job in a small town called Alma, Michigan, and then my wife who

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was my girlfriend at the time came and joined me in that place and we grew the practice

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to quite a large presence.

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We were here just for one year because that was the nature of our H1B visa at the time,

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but after about a few months in, they recognized the talents and skills that we could bring

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to the table.

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So they offered to process our green cards for us and if we would stay on for one more

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year.

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So it's like, oh yeah, great, we want to see this country, let's do that.

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But we ended up staying for three and a half years with that company.

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And then my wife and I traveled for two years and we've lived in Indiana and in New York

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and in North Carolina doing contract work.

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And one of the contracts brought us back to Grand Rapids.

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We wanted to reconnect with some friends.

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So let's go back to Michigan, take this job.

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And the job we had was at the local hospital called MetroHealth or Metropolitan Hospital

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back in the day.

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But all the clinicians were contracted from another rehab hospital called Mary Freebed.

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And so working here for a couple of weeks, they wanted to offer us full-time positions,

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which we negotiated and accepted after a few months.

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And that's how we ended up settling here in West Michigan.

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They were, for me specifically, they were looking for someone to build and grow a sports

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program.

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And I have a lot of entrepreneurial kind of things going on in my head and then they

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could recognize that right away.

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And for my wife, her specialty was in neuro.

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So stroke and Parkinson's and so she helped build that program.

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So we both came on as big assets to the company.

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And over the years, as I've developed different programs, I got to the point where they then

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moved me into a director of outpatient services or director of sports rehab kind of positions.

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I found an interesting reading about the history of Mary Freebed as a whole, just kind of how

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it started in the late 19th century and how it kind of came to be.

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Are there multiple locations around the states or?

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No, not around the states, but in Michigan, Mary Freebed has created specific partnerships

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with different hospital groups.

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They have quite a good presence and their sweet spot really is the inpatient rehabilitation.

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So massive neurological strokes and things that way you would need more rehab than just

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in an outpatient setting and then motor vehicle accidents.

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They really are the top in the country, if not in the world for doing that kind of work.

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They also do a lot of work in pediatrics.

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So a lot of the earlier younger diagnosis that knows Z's that often get either missed

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or not well treated, Freebed has an amazing way of managing that patient load.

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So people come in from at least different parts of the country to come and have their

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rehab here for that.

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They've also developed a very good orthotics and prosthetics program.

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So they were like the leaders in creating some of the devices that you see all over

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right now and Freebed staff are the ones that brought that into this rehab picture.

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The outpatient programs have been okay and that's what I was trying to help build, develop

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and grow.

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And so that's the world that I was involved in the most, the outpatient, not inpatient

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or pediatric.

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So you were there for 23, 24 years?

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Yeah, 25 years.

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It would have been 25 years since April that I resigned earlier in the year and my last

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day was February 14 of 2023.

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And now you're the owner of PT Sports Pro.

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What kind of influence the change or the shift from hospital based versus is this a private

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practice clinic now?

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Yeah, correct.

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You know, my approach to care and to athletes and to all my patients really was always to

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give them the highest level of care that they needed, which meant that a lot of one-on-one

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time with my patient and then a lot of daily permits from treatment to treatment.

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So I just don't do the same thing every time they come in.

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My approach has always been hands-on with my patients.

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So if they're there for 45 minutes to an hour, the first 30 minutes of it is like hands-on

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and making sure I can figure out what's going on with their muscle, their soft tissue, their

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joints.

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And then once I get that released, then I will move on to some of the exercise and activity

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that I would have them do in the gym.

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And especially post-COVID, it was starting to shift.

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There was a lot of pressure to do more like group kind of therapies and sessions, which

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I didn't philosophically agree with.

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But instead of being the person that sort of bucked the system, I recognized at that

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point that maybe it made more sense for me to separate out and do my own thing.

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So that led to, I think the trigger as well was a couple of really key staff will let

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go post-COVID that I couldn't see how that should happen in a system the way it did.

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So that was I started making my move to figure out a different business plan or different

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business option.

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So I set up PT SportsPro and resigned, like I said, on Feb 14.

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I had a whole day of retirement before kicking it in on Feb 16 with PT SportsPro as my official

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PLLC.

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I'm opening up a big private, what I call a sports and wellness practice.

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My vision is to build it for the elite athletes.

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So an absolutely high level concierge case, a practice that has all the fittings and visuals

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of a high level practice, but open it to the masses.

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So I want anyone that has any kind of injury to come and see us and get the kind of care

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that I think we are capable of providing as clinicians and not consider the bottom line

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or the dollar as the lead in a treatment, but consider the patient in front of you as

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what do they need and how can we deliver that best quality all the time consistent.

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My goal is that the practices around me start seeing that success can be had with one-on-one

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good quality care and then they start to copy me because if they do, not only does our profession

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get elevated, but our community benefits.

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So I always say I could have retired after 30 years, but I decided to do this as my gift

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to our community.

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And especially with my involvement with my team, Triumph, I wanted to create a space where

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you don't just come in and have rehab, but if you needed a space to kind of work out

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and under supervision of a personal trainer or an exercise physiologist, we should be

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able to provide all levels of care.

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So we can take care of the elite athlete that wants to have a DEXA scan and lactate threshold

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tests and any kind of performance testing to the person with a total knee replacement

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that just wants to come in and have therapy.

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My tagline is, you know, treating you like a pro.

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We treat everyone like pros when they walk through the door.

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Yeah, I love that.

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Yeah, we added a physical therapy clinic adjacent to our gym about nine months ago and when

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I was seeking out what business to affiliate with, that was one of the big things that

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I wanted, a PT that was hands on and that worked one on one with clients and didn't

355
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just do the same rudimentary treatment for every person.

356
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Are you a cash based practice?

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So we'll be doing, well, we're still building out the practice.

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So we'll be open hopefully December, January, but yes, the short answer is yes, we'll be

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cash based and insurance.

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And we will be providing all levels of service.

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If someone comes into my practice and say, man, I wish you had this service or this test,

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I will be figuring out how to make sure we add it to our slate of things that we do.

363
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:44,280
Yeah, the benefit or at least one of the benefits of cash based is that it doesn't have to be

364
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:46,640
influenced by a script, right?

365
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:47,640
Right.

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00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:53,480
As opposed to a generic, you got eight PT sessions and then you're done with a cash based practice.

367
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You have a little more flexibility in how you treat a patient, right?

368
00:24:55,880 --> 00:25:01,880
Yeah, and the state of Michigan does have a direct access policy, which means that you

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do not need a referral for several of the insurance companies where they can have 10

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visits up to 30 days within 30 day period without needing a referral.

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But I can see the pros and cons of that as well.

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And I know for me, my goal is to provide what the patients need versus just going, oh, we

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can do 10 visits, so let's follow our practice with people that have 10 visits and done.

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00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:35,240
So my history has always been very good with my patients in terms of number of visits used

375
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and then the expected results.

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Are you hoping to have clients with disabilities?

377
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:42,920
Oh, absolutely.

378
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:43,920
Yeah.

379
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:44,920
Absolutely.

380
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As a matter of fact, the testing lab, the performance testing lab that I'm building,

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00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:55,440
I want to be able to put people with different levels of disability through the tests that

382
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:56,440
we normally do.

383
00:25:56,440 --> 00:26:03,040
So why is a DEXA scan, for example, important for someone who is a paraplegic versus someone

384
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,560
who has cerebral palsy?

385
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:10,800
Why do we need to do a VO2 max elective threshold test on these individuals?

386
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What are the standards right now, which there aren't any for someone with a disability?

387
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:21,160
Well, then how can we be part of the solution of creating those standards?

388
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:24,080
Because we have more and more, especially with the wheelchair adaptive athletes, for

389
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,720
example, that are racing at a very high level, right?

390
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And they don't know how they can tweak their performance if they don't have any baseline

391
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data.

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And integrated with performance comes personal training, but also management of an injury.

393
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:44,100
So that's why with PT Sports Pro, the PT stands for physical therapy, but also for personal

394
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training and performance testing.

395
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And we integrate that all into one.

396
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And the way I look at it is that the physical therapy is a small part of this bigger sports

397
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and wellness view that we're going to have.

398
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So we can all perform at our best.

399
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:03,040
Yeah, we'll have to loop you into our research then, because the person who introduced us,

400
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:09,120
Brian, him and I are working on a project now that revolves around high intensity strength

401
00:27:09,120 --> 00:27:10,880
training for people with Down syndrome.

402
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:14,400
We were looking at some of the different constructs that we want to measure, and whether it's

403
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:16,680
body composition, and we have VO2 max testing.

404
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,520
We have a metabolic cart here at my gym.

405
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:25,040
So maybe we can work together to kind of elevate the standards for performance training for

406
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:26,120
people with disabilities.

407
00:27:26,120 --> 00:27:29,080
That's kind of why I started my gym seven years ago.

408
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:34,920
And it's always great to affiliate with people that are doing similar things.

409
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:40,320
Before we talk about my team triumph, just when I was prepping for this, and this was

410
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:45,440
one of the more excited I've been for the podcast discussions, and there were just like

411
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:51,840
a lot of similarities between the work that we do and also kind of like our familial background

412
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:53,480
and stuff.

413
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:57,080
You mentioned meeting your wife during university.

414
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:03,080
And then more recently, I read a few articles and watched a couple of videos on her diagnosis

415
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:07,400
with adrenal cortical carcinoma when I was 17.

416
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:13,040
One of my best friends was diagnosed with the same form of cancer, which is very rare.

417
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,040
I think they say one in a million or so.

418
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:21,560
So maybe the chances of two people with a close relative or close friends with the diagnosis

419
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,000
is even more unlikely.

420
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:30,800
But Leah went to university in Michigan, met with Dr. Hammer, who was in some of the videos

421
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,800
that I watched with your wife as well.

422
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:40,680
What was that like, and so she was diagnosed in, correct myth I'm wrong, but 2021 or 2020?

423
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:41,680
2020.

424
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:45,720
2020 during the start of COVID.

425
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,560
Maybe can you kind of walk me through what that process was like, and maybe if that's

426
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:55,040
had any influence on your last few years of work and kind of what you want to accomplish?

427
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:57,320
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

428
00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:01,840
My wife works in inpatient rehab at the local hospital.

429
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:05,080
So she's often in close contact with patients.

430
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:10,840
COVID hits and now they had to start wearing masks and shields and all sorts of gear.

431
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:15,400
But a lot of the patients that would come in, they were patients that had the symptoms.

432
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:19,840
And we knew right away they were in a COVID ward and COVID floor and extra precautions

433
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:20,840
were taken.

434
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:26,480
But your general precautions weren't as closely followed, you know, with the regular population

435
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,080
because there was a lot of unknowns at the time.

436
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:34,760
And so you could work with a patient that actually was COVID positive, but just didn't

437
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:36,720
test positive yet.

438
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:41,760
And so in one of her episodes, I remember her talking about a patient that was having

439
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:47,560
some coughing and what have you, but hadn't been diagnosed or confirmed as a COVID positive

440
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:48,560
test.

441
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:54,200
And she went to lift up the patient, the patient went into a coughing spurt and Tina felt like,

442
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:59,560
well, you know, if anything, I could put my finger on that one case.

443
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:05,880
But at that time wearing the masks was also quite an oppressive kind of thing.

444
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:10,400
And so she'd come home and she'd be like, man, you know, my forehead hurts and this

445
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:13,520
hurts and that hurts, but it's probably the mask and wearing it all the time.

446
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:17,960
But she started to notice that she's like, my pulse feels really strong and it feels

447
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:18,960
like my heart's racing.

448
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:19,960
I don't know what's going on.

449
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:22,680
I'm like, that's probably the anxiety from wearing the mask.

450
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:24,720
And we try to calm her fears on that.

451
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:29,760
But when it didn't settle down, we had to go into the local doctor, which was in early

452
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:31,080
May.

453
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:32,960
And I remember they checked her blood pressure.

454
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:38,400
It was 200 over 100, which is unheard of, you know, for especially for her, she runs

455
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,560
a regular always has been like 120 over 80.

456
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:45,640
And so they gave her some blood pressure, low ring medication and they ran a few blood

457
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:50,280
tests and then the results came back the next day that her potassium level was really low.

458
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:56,800
So they put on potassium pills and they said this will also help restore some of the balance

459
00:30:56,800 --> 00:31:00,760
and a symptoms should decrease by that Monday Tuesday.

460
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:02,240
It still didn't decrease.

461
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:07,560
So they sent it to the hospital and said, you know, go to the ER, get an IV of potassium.

462
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:09,400
Let's see if that gets your levels up.

463
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:14,560
So they tested her levels before the potassium infusion ran the infusion.

464
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:18,680
And after they, when they retested, instead of the numbers going up, it actually dropped

465
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:21,240
even further when she was at that critical level.

466
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:26,160
So they decided to admit her that Wednesday night just to kind of figure out what the

467
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:27,360
hex going on.

468
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:30,720
The next morning they, they are doing the rounds.

469
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:32,840
The doctor said, Hey, you're one of us.

470
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:36,080
You work in this hospital because she, she actually ended up being admitted to where

471
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:37,320
she actually worked.

472
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:41,200
Let's, let's run through these tests and make sure you're taking care of well.

473
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:43,240
But have you ever had any COVID symptoms?

474
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:46,280
And she's like, no, we're going to test you anyways.

475
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,000
Well, they test her and she tests positive.

476
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,240
So they isolated her right away.

477
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:55,320
And of course, during this whole time, I couldn't be with her because of all the COVID precautions.

478
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,920
So we're like face timing and, you know, she didn't, she even drove herself to the ER

479
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:01,040
because there's no point in me driving her there.

480
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:02,800
I wouldn't be allowed inside.

481
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:06,320
And she just like at the last minute packed an extra, you know, shirt and some underwear

482
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,600
and say, just in case I'll just take this with me.

483
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:13,000
And I'm glad she did cause she ended up staying in the hospital for a couple of weeks.

484
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:22,280
And during that time is when they also found out that her levels of, I think it was, kind

485
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:29,400
of remember the adrenocortical levels was, was super, you know, off the charts, off,

486
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:30,880
wrong and super high.

487
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:35,360
And so when they, when they saw that, I think it was supposed to be like around 5000 units

488
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,080
and she was like at 60,000 units or something.

489
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:42,480
That's when they said, okay, you know, we got to do a CT scan and the CT scan showed a huge

490
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:43,480
tumor.

491
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,520
So that's the size of a fist over a left adrenal gland.

492
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:48,320
And we get this news on a Monday evening.

493
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:53,960
I think it was like around the 18th or something of me where the doctor had gone home and then

494
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:59,360
when he saw the results, he came back in to give her the news in person because he was,

495
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:00,360
he was even shocked.

496
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,840
He had not even seen a case like this in his tenure.

497
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:07,480
And so we got on and I'm on the phone trying to listen to all of this.

498
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:11,360
And that's kind of was the start of our journey with this, the C word, right?

499
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:17,640
And he said, it's very grave, you know, there's a lot of risk even in doing a surgery and

500
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:19,160
we went through all of that.

501
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:24,160
And again, you know, we prayed a lot about where we were in our journey.

502
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:32,000
And then, you know, fast forward to within by the end of that week, this was on a Monday.

503
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:36,080
So they kept it in the hospital, tried to figure out what they could do in terms of

504
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:37,080
surgery.

505
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:42,600
They had a medical surgeon, but ended up getting connected to U of M and Dr. Hammer then became

506
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:44,680
in charge of a case.

507
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:50,520
Met with a really good surgeon, Dr. Barth Miller, who, you know, a week later got on

508
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:54,680
a virtual call with us and gave us the lowdown of what needed to happen.

509
00:33:54,680 --> 00:34:02,920
The tumor was touching her diaphragm, her stomach, her pancreas, her spleen, aorta and

510
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:04,920
then sat on top of her left kidney.

511
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:09,960
So Dr. Miller said, okay, we'll take out the tumor, we'll resect all those areas, we'll

512
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:14,600
remove the kidney, resect and, you know, connect whatever needed to be done.

513
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:18,360
And we're like, oh, it's a pretty extensive surgery, but Dr. Miller was confident she could

514
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,280
handle it all.

515
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:26,920
It was, we had this, this is the Thursday after the Memorial Day is when we're having

516
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:30,680
this virtual meeting and surgery was about three or four weeks out.

517
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:35,160
And we were like, what's going to happen to this tumor, is it going to grow, what's

518
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:36,440
going to happen?

519
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:41,320
And in that time, as we kind of dealt with this decision, Dr. Miller looks at her schedule

520
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:46,400
and she goes, oh, wait a minute, I could see you on Monday, like three days later.

521
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:50,720
And so right there, that was like the first step in all of these series of miracles.

522
00:34:50,720 --> 00:34:56,360
She goes in and I had to take her to U of M, drop her off and then come back home because

523
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:58,600
I couldn't even go in with her.

524
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:03,360
And if something did happen to her on the table, I couldn't go in and it was, it was

525
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:09,880
just so weird how we had to pivot what our normal minds would think about how we spend

526
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:13,720
time with each other and what we do with segues to the question that you ask.

527
00:35:13,720 --> 00:35:17,480
And so that night I get home and by the time I got home, I actually got a lost coming back

528
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:18,480
home.

529
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:22,680
Even though I have GPS, I never get lost, but my brain was that distracted was going

530
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:23,680
on.

531
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:27,360
So by the time I did get home, I literally sat on the couch and I get a call from Dr.

532
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:28,360
Miller saying, Hey, Terrence, this is really weird.

533
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:29,360
This is Barb.

534
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:30,720
Wanted you to know that we went in.

535
00:35:30,720 --> 00:35:35,560
So they had to basically cut across the entire abdomen, you know, remove the organs, the

536
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:38,360
gut basically so they can get to the adrenal gland.

537
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:42,320
And she said, I got in there, did all the things that we needed to do and was able to

538
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:48,680
just lift this tumor out of there without touching, it wasn't attached to any of the

539
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,240
other structures, even though it was touching all of them.

540
00:35:51,240 --> 00:35:56,880
So they got it just in time and they were even able to save the kidney.

541
00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:03,080
And so with that, you know, we realized that there is a purpose to who we are and how we

542
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:04,960
exist.

543
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:11,840
And when Tina was diagnosed and we were just like distraught with fear and anxiety, because

544
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:12,840
we have no family.

545
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:17,120
It's just the two of us and our kids, all her family live in Portugal, my family's in

546
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:18,440
South Africa.

547
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:19,760
No one could travel at the time.

548
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:24,840
No one could be with us in terms of the support system, but our friends were our family here

549
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:26,760
and they supported us well.

550
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:32,960
And that night when we got the diagnosis and she finally, you know, after emotionally

551
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:36,880
just trying to deal with it, she's like, I'm going to hang up the phone right now and let

552
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,720
me just settle into all of this and I'll call you right back.

553
00:36:39,720 --> 00:36:45,120
And in that time, a nurse even went into Tina's room and said, Hey Tina, I know that your

554
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:49,040
family can't be here and I shouldn't even be here because she's in a full hazmat suit

555
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:50,040
at this point.

556
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:53,760
The nurse goes, but if you want, I can stay here and hold your hand as long as you want.

557
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:58,720
So she did that and console Tina and when the nurse left Tina had this, the scripture

558
00:36:58,720 --> 00:37:03,840
that came to her mind, Jeremiah 29 11, I the Lord know the plans I have for you.

559
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:09,840
And, and so Tina writes it on a whiteboard in her room and then calls me and says, Hey,

560
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:13,500
I don't know why the scripture came into my head, but here it is.

561
00:37:13,500 --> 00:37:18,560
And when I read this, I just feel at such intense calm peace.

562
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:22,880
And and with that, you know, we talked about it a little bit and then she went to bed and

563
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:24,880
she actually slept well that night.

564
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:29,320
The next morning that same nurse comes into the room and sees the scripture on the wall

565
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:32,240
and goes, Hey, you know, I, I don't, are you a Christian?

566
00:37:32,240 --> 00:37:34,040
And Tina goes, Yeah, yeah, I am.

567
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:35,040
And she goes, You know what?

568
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:38,960
She takes a dry erase to the board and wherever it says, I know the plans I have for you.

569
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:42,360
She took out the word you and she wrote in Tina's name.

570
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:49,040
And that's when the story became super personal in terms of how we connect our faith to our

571
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:50,040
lives.

572
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:51,040
Right.

573
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:55,840
And then the tumor, when the doctor said, I went in and I was able to remove that tumor.

574
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:59,760
Like I, and she used the word like there's like some, like a miracle that was able to

575
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:02,160
remove this tumor without having to resect anything else.

576
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:04,600
There was like, there was no other way to explain this.

577
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:08,760
And that's how you know your life is beyond just who you are and how you exist.

578
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:13,920
When we got the diagnosis, we decided as a family that we would spend our time living,

579
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:19,680
not dying because as you know, the, the, uh, the mortality rate for this cancer is very

580
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:20,680
high as well.

581
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:24,320
The survival rate after five years is 10 to 25%.

582
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:25,720
And I said to Tina, you know what?

583
00:38:25,720 --> 00:38:30,520
We don't know which direction this is going to go, but someone has to be in that 10 to

584
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:31,720
25%.

585
00:38:31,720 --> 00:38:33,320
Why not us?

586
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:37,680
And at the end of the day, does it matter whether we live or die as long as we live our, our

587
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:42,760
lives to the best, you know, version of ourselves and bear testimony to everything God has done

588
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:43,760
for us.

589
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:44,760
And that's how we've lived.

590
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:48,360
And she, she's not on social media, but she asked me to share her story.

591
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:54,880
And by doing so, we've been able to help so many people that I found this, this toxic

592
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:58,720
culture on, on, especially on social media and wanted to get away from it all.

593
00:38:58,720 --> 00:39:02,360
And then saw a story like this and then caught inspired to like, you know what, why don't

594
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:05,560
we live each day that like, like it was our last day?

595
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:09,320
Why don't we celebrate each other in our relationships that we should every day?

596
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:13,720
Instead, when something goes wrong, then we like, Oh my gosh, but I really love you.

597
00:39:13,720 --> 00:39:14,720
I really value you.

598
00:39:14,720 --> 00:39:18,800
And then you tend to connect a little bit more in those times of desperation, but why

599
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:21,040
can't that be every day?

600
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:27,480
And so as Tina says, cancer was not a gift, but it has given us gifts, gifts to love more,

601
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:33,160
to trust more, to serve more, to just be the best versions of ourselves that we can be

602
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:38,760
not just, you know, during the, the Christmas seasons or during Thanksgiving, but every day.

603
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:41,040
So that's, that's what we try to do every day.

604
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:42,040
Yeah.

605
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:46,680
And I appreciate you sharing that, even if it's not like directly related to inclusion

606
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:50,920
or accessibility, I think it's, I can think of a few conversations that I've had with

607
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:53,880
some individuals who've had spinal cord injuries.

608
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:59,080
And it's interesting to listen to some of them move towards faith and then others move

609
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:00,280
away from faith.

610
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:05,040
And it's even in like the medical humanity, some of the stuff that I've read about that

611
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:11,320
domain, it's like the intersection of literature and philosophy and religion in how people

612
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:18,040
recover from medical conditions and the importance of it in people's rehab process.

613
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:20,120
So it's a very interesting topic.

614
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:24,720
And I appreciate you sharing the story as a whole because it was, it was just a connection

615
00:40:24,720 --> 00:40:30,800
that I felt strongly about Leah's treatment influenced my life a lot.

616
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:31,800
So.

617
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:32,800
Yeah.

618
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:37,000
And it actually has impacted how we see someone with a disability, right?

619
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:44,680
Because then we realize that, that every opportunity to be in front of someone that is different

620
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:49,400
in whatever way is an opportunity that doesn't just happen.

621
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:51,320
So you make the best of it.

622
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:56,600
So for example, when I talk to any of our, so in my team, we call the person with the

623
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:57,600
disability the captain.

624
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:02,280
And I talk to any captain, whether they're verbal or not, I always look them in the eye

625
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:04,960
and I speak to the captain.

626
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:08,200
If the parents have to translate and whatever you, that's great.

627
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:13,080
But my focus is on the person in front of me versus talking to the parent and they speak

628
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:14,520
on behalf of the captain.

629
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:18,560
So I think as we approach, you know, people with different disabilities, the goal is to

630
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:22,880
sometimes even just, just sharing, hey, how are you doing today?

631
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:25,040
Are you ready to race?

632
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:27,240
Changes everything because we are talking to them.

633
00:41:27,240 --> 00:41:29,200
We're not talking about them.

634
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:30,200
Yeah.

635
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:34,000
That's an etiquette and a communication thing that we talk to our coaches about.

636
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:39,320
Like, there are some tendencies for people to either talk to someone with a disability,

637
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:44,960
like their elementary, like kind of baby talk or talk to them as if they're lesser.

638
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:49,160
Or like you said, when they're working with a caregiver to talk directly to the caregiver

639
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:50,480
and ignore the athlete.

640
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:54,480
So those are, those are kind of like etiquette and communication things that I think are

641
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:58,240
essential to just demonstrating respect for people of all abilities.

642
00:41:58,240 --> 00:42:00,800
But that's a good segue into my team triumph.

643
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:04,800
So you started it in 2008.

644
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:10,600
Was there a specific individual or experience that kind of influenced you to get involved?

645
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:16,760
No, actually, it wasn't an individual, but it wasn't experienced because in 2007 I was

646
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:21,080
turning 40 and decided to do my first Ironman race.

647
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:25,440
And so I signed up for the Wisconsin Ironman, which as you know, you know, you got to sign

648
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:27,120
up a whole year in advance.

649
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:31,760
I went through this whole journey of training and sadly being away from home a lot more than

650
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:35,440
my wife wanted me to be away from home training.

651
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:40,720
But I got to this event in September of 2007.

652
00:42:40,720 --> 00:42:45,880
And I was ready to take this on and prove to the world, prove to myself that at 40 I

653
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:49,000
could still, you know, do this as an athlete.

654
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:52,360
But then I started, I met people that were there for other reasons.

655
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:57,200
They were trying to raise funds or awareness for different organizations or different things

656
00:42:57,200 --> 00:42:58,200
in the communities.

657
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:01,600
And I felt a little guilty initially, but I thought, no, I'm here.

658
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:04,240
This is my mission right now to do this event.

659
00:43:04,240 --> 00:43:10,120
But when I got done and I was able to accomplish, you know, finishing this Ironman, I did come

660
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:13,280
back home and started talking to a friend about it.

661
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:19,160
And he was in charge or he owned our local triathlon club of which I was a member.

662
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:22,200
And I said to Wayne, I'm like, Wayne, you know, so I've been thinking.

663
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:26,760
And then I go down this road about like, how do we use our skills and talents as triathletes

664
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:30,320
or as athletes to help someone, you know?

665
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:34,920
And at that point, we weren't looking necessarily at someone with a disability, but just in

666
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:38,360
general, like, you know, can we go to a nursing home and take people for rides?

667
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:41,320
Or how do we do this as our team?

668
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:46,880
And we probably had about 50 to 75 members on our team, maybe more.

669
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:51,520
But so Wayne goes, you know what, I had this other gentleman talk to me about, you know,

670
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:55,920
doing something like this, we should just get together and put our ideas on paper and

671
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:57,680
figure out how we make it happen.

672
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:02,080
So that was the first introduction to this idea.

673
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:04,240
And at that time, we didn't even have a name for it.

674
00:44:04,240 --> 00:44:09,800
And in our meeting, we kind of, you know, the things that came up was they, you know,

675
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:13,960
you've said you've done some stuff with team Hoyt.

676
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:19,760
And I had the privilege, the pleasure of meeting Dick Hoyt a few years ago when I was in Boston.

677
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:24,360
But you know, I, at that time, I did not know about the Hoyts.

678
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:27,480
I mean, remember, I'm like the foreign transplant here.

679
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:28,840
So I didn't see that.

680
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:35,000
But I knew that there were a few one-on-one family members, individuals that were racing.

681
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:41,240
But the question that we had was, how does it work if you, the person with a disability,

682
00:44:41,240 --> 00:44:43,640
has no one around you that can race with you?

683
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:46,480
No one in your family that's an athlete.

684
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:48,320
How do you get the opportunity to race?

685
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:54,360
So we came up with this idea of my team triumph, where if I could find, if we were going to

686
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:59,920
be doing a 5K, if I could find three people that could finish a 5K in a reasonable time,

687
00:44:59,920 --> 00:45:03,440
I could put them together, match them with someone with a disability, and they could

688
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:05,680
push that person through that 5K.

689
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:07,960
And if one got tired, the other one will take over.

690
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:10,840
The idea was as a team, they would complete the event.

691
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:15,240
And the reason why we needed the team is because these athletes, these individuals don't get

692
00:45:15,240 --> 00:45:20,400
a chance to otherwise train with the person in the chair, with the person with a disability.

693
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:23,640
So they just literally are going to meet on race morning.

694
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:28,600
So having the ability to finish a 5K within a reasonable time and then push a chair through

695
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:31,440
takes some meshing of skills.

696
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:33,520
And so it became this team effort.

697
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:37,280
And we really wanted to make the race all about the person in the chair, the person with

698
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:38,280
the disability.

699
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:39,840
So we called them the captain.

700
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:44,160
The athletes, we wanted them in the background, kind of taking care of business.

701
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:46,200
We called them the angels because they did the work.

702
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:48,760
The recognition wasn't about the athletes though.

703
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:55,280
So most of the time, 98% of the time, the captain wears the race bib, the timing chip,

704
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:57,560
their names actually show up in the results.

705
00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:01,840
The angels, nothing just a red shirt, they say, my team triumph angel in it, just so

706
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:06,440
that people on the course recognize who they are and they're not just banditing a race.

707
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:11,360
And so that has what, that's what defined my team triumph.

708
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:16,360
And we did our first race was a triathlon called Tridel Sol and we did that in 2008.

709
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:21,400
So the spring of 08, which is in March is when we got all the paperwork put together,

710
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:24,960
the legal work done, set up as a 5013C.

711
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:27,840
And then July of that year is when we did our first race.

712
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:31,320
And that first year, we just did like, I think three or four races.

713
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:35,680
We're just, I think the first race was just two captains and I was one of the original

714
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:36,680
angels as well.

715
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:42,080
And my job on the, on the board when we started was to take care of equipment and make sure

716
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:46,200
that we got the right equipment to race in and each of us had these different roles.

717
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:50,080
And by the end of that year after four races, you know, trying to convince race directors

718
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:55,080
that it was okay for us to be in a race because we have rules of engagements and protocols

719
00:46:55,080 --> 00:47:00,560
that'll keep not just our group safe, but all the participants around us safe as well.

720
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:03,000
That was helpful to then help us move forward.

721
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:07,640
At which point we got a reach out by others that had heard of our story and wanted to

722
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:10,440
know how could they do this in their state.

723
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:17,360
And so in 09, we formed a chapter structure in West Michigan, became so if the original

724
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:23,000
racing group in West Michigan in Grand Rapids became the first chapter and we created a

725
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:27,880
national body that then helps to take the operations of that chapter and duplicate it

726
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:29,320
across the country.

727
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:36,360
So fast forward to 2023, we now have 14 chapters across the country that do this.

728
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:41,240
Our goal is to create depth in relationships and having authentic relationships versus

729
00:47:41,240 --> 00:47:48,080
breadth and just trying to do a ton of events that, that doesn't have the meaning that it

730
00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:50,920
needs to have for our captains.

731
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:54,920
Every experience with them as we talked about our journey with cancer, every experience

732
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:58,360
with these captains could be, has to be the best experience.

733
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:01,800
So we go all out and try to provide that for them.

734
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:06,720
And then sadly for some of our captains that have been more fragile, their first experience

735
00:48:06,720 --> 00:48:11,600
ended up being one of the last experiences that they had with us because within, before

736
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:15,960
they could come and race with us again, they passed away in between in that interim.

737
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:19,280
And so we were glad that we were able to provide them with this amazing experience.

738
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:23,160
And we've had those parents that have reached out to us afterwards saying, thank you so

739
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:24,640
much for doing that.

740
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:28,320
They talked about the experience that entire time they wore the medal for a whole year

741
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:29,320
a week after the race.

742
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:33,760
So, so we want to make sure that it's not just a handout, you know, it's an earned medal,

743
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:36,040
it's an accomplishment.

744
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:40,560
Even just to sit in the chair for the time that they have to takes, it takes a lot.

745
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:41,840
It takes a lot.

746
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:45,400
And it is, you know, it has a toll on the body as well.

747
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:50,280
And then we've had other captains that have done, you know, 30, 60, 100 races with us

748
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:54,880
and accumulated medals and have accumulated, you know, race numbers.

749
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:58,840
And for them, this has now become their point of bragging up to this point.

750
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:02,680
I remember one of our first captains sat in his living room just looking out the window

751
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:07,160
at the kids playing shooting hoops and felt that he couldn't be part of that.

752
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:11,040
And after he did his first race with us, he was able to get out there in his power chair

753
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:14,680
with his medal on and talk about what he just got to do on the weekend.

754
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:16,680
So it is life changing.

755
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:21,360
And something that starts as a small effort to just move the needle just a little bit

756
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:25,720
has become this larger movement where now, especially in West Michigan, getting into

757
00:49:25,720 --> 00:49:30,040
a race with someone with a disability is like, yes, how do we make that happen?

758
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:33,520
Whereas when we first started, it's like, nope, you're not allowed to do this race,

759
00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:34,520
you know?

760
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:40,600
And so we figured out how to diplomatically work through the process of getting the yeses

761
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:44,960
from our race directors to the point now that they invite us, they want us to be there

762
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:46,600
and we're happy to make that happen.

763
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:47,600
Yeah.

764
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:48,600
Yeah, it's motivating.

765
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:53,320
You hear those captains reflect on their race experience and kind of how it transpires into

766
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:55,520
other aspects of their life as well.

767
00:49:55,520 --> 00:50:01,680
You mentioned when you first started triathlon, it's like a very individual, it's a very

768
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:03,000
individual-centric sport.

769
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:08,920
And what I love personally about racing with Jacob is that it kind of gives it meaning

770
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:11,800
beyond myself.

771
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:18,040
When I'm training by myself, I'm envisioning the races when Jacob's kind of like he dances

772
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:23,520
in our chair, like we have music that plays, like he teams of like feet off the crowd and

773
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:28,200
stuff and so I'm envisioning those moments when workouts are getting hard, when running

774
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:33,120
is getting hard and it's gotten me through a lot over the last nine years that Jacob

775
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:34,760
and I have been running together.

776
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:40,440
We've done about 100 races together and we'll be running Boston this April for the first

777
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:42,480
time together.

778
00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:49,800
But what are the steps and challenges of kind of building a membership organization?

779
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:53,880
Are you concerned about the people that represent those chapters?

780
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:57,040
Is there like a vetting process, an interview process?

781
00:50:57,040 --> 00:51:03,400
Yeah, that's an interesting question because over the years, I focused initially on West

782
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:08,880
Michigan operationally trying to get this organization nice and tight so it can be

783
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:15,160
well-duplicated but in those years, the growth was almost too rapid to where the new chapters

784
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:18,680
that started in some of these places didn't understand what they were getting themselves

785
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:24,160
into and so some of those chapters, so we had more than 14 chapters and some of those

786
00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:28,960
actually closed or folded just because they started off with the right reasons but they

787
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:31,280
didn't have a good sustainability plan.

788
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:35,920
So about post-COVID or during COVID, we had to let go of our executive team because we

789
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:40,760
just couldn't have that level of infrastructure and be able to afford to pay them and when

790
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:47,120
we let that go, they appointed me as president of the National Board and I took that opportunity

791
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:51,960
to sort of reset some of the things to get us back to where, to the original values of

792
00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:55,760
what we started with, deep authentic relationships.

793
00:51:55,760 --> 00:52:01,160
So I didn't care how many chapters we had but if we had a chapter, how do we make it

794
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:06,320
the best chapter for that area, for that group, for the people that were on the ground doing

795
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:12,040
the work and so that really has been the hardest or the biggest challenge, right?

796
00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:18,480
Because so when I got into it, I did not have a family member or anyone that I knew with

797
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:26,520
a physical disability so for me, it was just this passion to move the needle, change the

798
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:33,200
status quo but for other people that started off, they were family members, often individual

799
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:37,640
with a disability and so as they started to grow the organization, it also started to

800
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:41,680
take away from what they were trying to do with their own kids or their own family members

801
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:43,920
and that became a stress point.

802
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:49,720
So having a right blend of board members, for example, to decompress that makes a big

803
00:52:49,720 --> 00:52:55,120
difference and also in our situation here in West Michigan, I can easily disassociate

804
00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:59,880
myself from individuals and look at the larger group whereas when you have a child, it's

805
00:52:59,880 --> 00:53:01,360
hard to do that, right?

806
00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:06,000
Because you want to take care of them but you also want to create more opportunities.

807
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:11,840
So what we've decided or started doing is just making sure that everyone, you shouldn't

808
00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:15,680
feel guilty about adding more people.

809
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:22,560
Just continue to do the right thing and I don't feel challenged or concerned by other

810
00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:27,200
organizations doing the same thing because I remember when we started, there weren't

811
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:32,120
too many people that were doing it to the extent that my team triumph did.

812
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:37,320
These other organizations grew and started doing it since then but not prior to them.

813
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:39,560
Prior to them, it was a lot of the one on one.

814
00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:41,840
So for me, it didn't matter.

815
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:47,760
As a matter of fact, I did the rock and roll half marathon in Fib this year and I could

816
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:55,200
represent my team triumph with my shirt but I worked with a team white chapter from Vegas

817
00:53:55,200 --> 00:54:01,840
and I pushed someone in an Angel's chair and that's the best of all three worlds colliding

818
00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:05,760
and what it became about that day was about Captain Chris.

819
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:09,280
It wasn't about an organization but it was about a person.

820
00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:12,560
And so that for me is what my goal is.

821
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:18,960
The challenge really is to take out the blinkers and see yourself as an organization but see

822
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:23,280
the individual that you're trying to create the experience for and do it for that reason.

823
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:29,400
Yeah, I love that and obviously it's never going to be an individual mission and you

824
00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:36,480
can only accomplish so much working on your own so it would be better if a lot of organizations

825
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:40,440
that had similar missions were more collaborative in nature.

826
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:45,280
I've unfortunately found that not to always be the case but it would be excellent if it

827
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:51,960
was keeping the goal the goal but realizing that you can learn so much and you can reach

828
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:56,280
more people the more you work with those other organizations.

829
00:54:56,280 --> 00:55:01,080
Maybe do you have a favorite race that stands out or a favorite running experience?

830
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:09,000
Yeah, so in terms of a favorite running experience, so Captain Matt Smith was our first captain

831
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:15,120
in 2008, he was 11 years old I believe when he did his first race with us.

832
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:19,880
And Matt and I have done quite a few races at different places together.

833
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:25,840
When he turned 18, I wanted to create a special thing for him so we created the four state

834
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:35,280
marathon challenge where just him and I hit the road and ran a marathon in Ohio, in Indiana,

835
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:42,760
in Wisconsin and then in Grand Rapids and that was an amazing, amazing experience for

836
00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:44,160
me.

837
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:50,400
Matt's parents had never let him go out with anyone up to that point because there was

838
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:55,520
no one had established, no outsider from outside the family had established that kind of relationship

839
00:55:55,520 --> 00:56:02,560
and rapport and so for me it was a reflection of the trust that we had built over the years

840
00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:05,520
and Matt and I had an absolute blast.

841
00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:06,840
Now was it work?

842
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:07,840
Yeah.

843
00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:10,480
Did I have a whole new respect for Matt's parents?

844
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:11,480
Absolutely.

845
00:56:11,480 --> 00:56:16,080
Because you know I would get him in the car, put his wheelchair away, strap him in, we

846
00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:19,520
get to a restaurant, you need to use the bathroom, you got to take him out, put him in the chair,

847
00:56:19,520 --> 00:56:23,640
get him into the restaurant and so on race morning I was up at three in the morning,

848
00:56:23,640 --> 00:56:27,920
get myself ready, then I had to get Matt ready, load everyone into the vehicle because it

849
00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:31,560
was just him and I and then we'd get to the race site and then I had to open the chair,

850
00:56:31,560 --> 00:56:35,200
assemble it, check the tire pressures, get him in the chair and then get to the starting

851
00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:40,040
line and who believe it or not that's when I could like, I can relax.

852
00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:41,560
I'm about to run a marathon.

853
00:56:41,560 --> 00:56:42,560
And then you had to run a marathon.

854
00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:47,560
And I ran a marathon already for three hours and the actual marathon itself was going to

855
00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:53,920
be the easiest part of my day and so I really got a whole new fondix appreciation for parents

856
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:59,080
or family members of those with disabilities but also got an understanding of how someone

857
00:56:59,080 --> 00:57:03,600
with a disability can feel like a burden, right?

858
00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:09,640
Unless we take that, we decompress that burden and let them know that it's okay.

859
00:57:09,640 --> 00:57:12,360
We all function differently.

860
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:15,920
We just got to figure out how to help each other out and that's it.

861
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:19,200
It's just an unconditional act of things that we just do.

862
00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:20,200
Why?

863
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:21,200
Because we're human.

864
00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:22,200
This is our society.

865
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:23,200
This is what we do.

866
00:57:23,200 --> 00:57:27,960
So for me that was a whole, whole appreciation there of being able to do those marathons

867
00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:28,960
with Matt.

868
00:57:28,960 --> 00:57:34,240
As a matter of fact, we had our national conference around that same in the next couple of years

869
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:40,960
in Vegas and Matt and I flew out to Vegas and I took him on a trip going, all right,

870
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:45,320
we're going to do this and he'd never been on a plane before.

871
00:57:45,320 --> 00:57:49,720
And I'd never traveled on a plane with someone with a disability and yet we figured it out

872
00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:52,040
and we had an amazing time.

873
00:57:52,040 --> 00:57:54,200
So for me that experience was amazing.

874
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:58,120
And the other event that stands out is Johnny Aigar.

875
00:57:58,120 --> 00:58:00,160
I don't know if you're familiar with team Aigar.

876
00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:01,160
Yeah.

877
00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:06,320
Johnny started racing with us through my team triumphs first until his dad then asked if

878
00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:12,400
he could do a 5k with his kid and that pretty soon grew into them doing more and more races

879
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:16,720
when Jeff, the dad, saw how much Johnny enjoyed racing.

880
00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:21,960
But Jeff and the whole Aigar family have always been very thankful to my team triumph for all

881
00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:27,240
the things that we were able to get them to to the point when they got invited to Kona

882
00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:29,040
in 2016.

883
00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:33,440
They asked me to travel with them and help them with logistics because again, outside

884
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:39,080
of being an athlete, I also could understand the setup, the bike, the transitions and what

885
00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:40,080
have you.

886
00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:42,520
And so I got to help them with all of those things.

887
00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:46,240
And whenever Johnny raced and even though he didn't finish that one, he was able to

888
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:49,680
do several other races in Florida and in Texas.

889
00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:52,480
And wherever he went, I went with the family.

890
00:58:52,480 --> 00:58:56,320
I traveled, I got to travel to Germany when they did the Roth challenge out there.

891
00:58:56,320 --> 00:59:02,680
So for me, in terms of kind of, you know, being able to create this impact that is bigger

892
00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:08,280
and way beyond what I could even imagine, that was an amazing adventure as well.

893
00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:10,080
So we've got some great, great things.

894
00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:17,000
And then to meet Dick when we went to the Boston Marathon in 2017 or 2018, I believe,

895
00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:23,280
we just ran into him totally by accident at the hotel lobby.

896
00:59:23,280 --> 00:59:27,680
And I walked up and I'm sorry he was just having lunch with Kathy and I said, I'm sorry

897
00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:29,960
to interrupt, but you're Dick Hoyt.

898
00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:31,600
I'm Terence Reuben.

899
00:59:31,600 --> 00:59:33,560
It's an absolute pleasure to meet you.

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00:59:33,560 --> 00:59:37,000
Here's who I am and where I come from.

901
00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:42,000
And Matt Smith was, I had taken Matt with me to Boston and this is Matt Smith and I introduced

902
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:47,560
him and Dick looked at Matt and started talking, you know, with him and he said, Matt, you

903
00:59:47,560 --> 00:59:52,600
remind me so much of my son Rick, except you can speak.

904
00:59:52,600 --> 00:59:57,000
And for those five days that we were there, Dick found us whenever he could and would

905
00:59:57,000 --> 01:00:01,720
have these, he would stop everything and have a long conversation with Matt the whole time.

906
01:00:01,720 --> 01:00:05,360
Even came to our booth during the expo and hung up with us a little bit.

907
01:00:05,360 --> 01:00:08,880
And so for me, that's really what it's all about again, right?

908
01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:13,160
Because sometimes you can get lost in a name or a title, but you forget the impact that

909
01:00:13,160 --> 01:00:15,640
you can have on an individual.

910
01:00:15,640 --> 01:00:20,080
And it is important for us to continue to have impacts on individuals as well.

911
01:00:20,080 --> 01:00:25,280
Yes, there's a bigger, greater picture, but you know, everything should be personalized

912
01:00:25,280 --> 01:00:27,080
to the person that's in front of you.

913
01:00:27,080 --> 01:00:28,080
Yeah.

914
01:00:28,080 --> 01:00:30,640
Yeah, I probably can't articulate it any better than that.

915
01:00:30,640 --> 01:00:31,640
But it was the same.

916
01:00:31,640 --> 01:00:35,160
Like Dick has obviously played a huge role in my life.

917
01:00:35,160 --> 01:00:41,240
And last time I saw him was at my wedding and we qualified for Boston two days before

918
01:00:41,240 --> 01:00:42,800
Rick recently passed away.

919
01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:47,240
So it's all been like, they've played a huge role in everything I do.

920
01:00:47,240 --> 01:00:50,800
And now we run the Rick White Research Lab here at my facility.

921
01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:56,920
I asked Rick earlier this year if I could name it after him because we want to do work

922
01:00:56,920 --> 01:00:58,800
on cerebral palsy.

923
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:04,400
So that's a good reminder every day I come into work to see his name up there and carrying

924
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:07,520
on some of the stuff that they do is important to myself.

925
01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:09,440
And I'm sure you as well.

926
01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:13,520
But we wrap up a lot of these discussions with this question.

927
01:01:13,520 --> 01:01:19,240
So is there anything specific that you think like we're in the fitness industry, but maybe

928
01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:21,800
we can also say endurance sports as well?

929
01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:25,880
Like what the fitness industry needs to do to become more inclusive or accessible?

930
01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:27,960
Yeah, no.

931
01:01:27,960 --> 01:01:31,520
And this is down to what you're creating right now with AdaptX, right?

932
01:01:31,520 --> 01:01:37,120
Because I think in the fitness industry, if you look at the design of all the equipment

933
01:01:37,120 --> 01:01:44,040
we have, they're starting to shift a little bit more to equipment that is more adaptive

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01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:48,480
for someone in a wheelchair with a disability.

935
01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:54,640
And I think when I look at it, some of the equipment focus has been on maybe like a paraplegic.

936
01:01:54,640 --> 01:01:56,280
This still has use of both arms, right?

937
01:01:56,280 --> 01:01:59,120
But what can we do to help someone who has cerebral palsy?

938
01:01:59,120 --> 01:02:00,320
They can only use one arm.

939
01:02:00,320 --> 01:02:05,680
How can we adapt equipment so that they could still get a good workout using special equipment

940
01:02:05,680 --> 01:02:07,360
for that?

941
01:02:07,360 --> 01:02:12,000
And I don't think that equipment has to be that different.

942
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:16,760
It just needs to be designed in a way that can be used by anyone.

943
01:02:16,760 --> 01:02:21,000
We don't want special equipment for someone with a disability and a different set of equipment

944
01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:22,400
for someone that doesn't have it.

945
01:02:22,400 --> 01:02:26,040
We should be able to, we can send people to the moon.

946
01:02:26,040 --> 01:02:30,400
We can figure out how to create equipment that can be all-inclusive.

947
01:02:30,400 --> 01:02:34,200
The experience at a lot of the gyms and fitness facilities, they stack the equipment together

948
01:02:34,200 --> 01:02:37,320
so tight that you can't get a chair through there.

949
01:02:37,320 --> 01:02:39,280
That shouldn't happen.

950
01:02:39,280 --> 01:02:44,640
Why can't we rethink how we lay out things so it can be more accessible?

951
01:02:44,640 --> 01:02:47,400
And we think about, you know, we may put a piece of equipment out there, but then we

952
01:02:47,400 --> 01:02:51,960
don't have anyone to help someone that has a disability as they roll up.

953
01:02:51,960 --> 01:02:56,000
And if they need something to, if they need help just wiping a piece down, we don't provide

954
01:02:56,000 --> 01:02:59,040
the infrastructure, the staff, the, what have you for them.

955
01:02:59,040 --> 01:03:02,480
Those are the kind of simple, low-hanging fruit that we can change, but we have to be

956
01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:03,480
the change.

957
01:03:03,480 --> 01:03:07,400
And so people like you and I, and I'm sure there's many more out there, the more that

958
01:03:07,400 --> 01:03:13,040
we can normalize that and create the right access points and create the right, you know,

959
01:03:13,040 --> 01:03:14,880
expectations for everyone.

960
01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:18,960
And then we also have to have a more inviting culture as well, right?

961
01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:23,760
How do we highlight that this facility is geared to help you, all of you?

962
01:03:23,760 --> 01:03:28,320
And I don't think we do enough of advertising that.

963
01:03:28,320 --> 01:03:32,520
So people have done this in different spurts of, you know, they have the equipment, but

964
01:03:32,520 --> 01:03:33,520
they don't have the staff.

965
01:03:33,520 --> 01:03:36,320
They have the staff with the knowledge, they don't have the equipment.

966
01:03:36,320 --> 01:03:37,960
How do we put it all together?

967
01:03:37,960 --> 01:03:40,760
And I think that's going to be the challenge for us as we move forward.

968
01:03:40,760 --> 01:03:44,760
I love the fact that we focus on individuals with disabilities because we are trying to

969
01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:46,040
sort of level the playing field.

970
01:03:46,040 --> 01:03:53,320
But in my dream, my vision is that we shouldn't focus on them because they should be so normalized

971
01:03:53,320 --> 01:03:57,960
and assimilated into our culture that you shouldn't have to look around and hold the door open

972
01:03:57,960 --> 01:04:01,160
when someone comes in on a wheelchair because the system is set up for them to just come

973
01:04:01,160 --> 01:04:03,280
in and access and do and be.

974
01:04:03,280 --> 01:04:07,360
I had coffee at the coffee shop this morning and I said to my friend, I was talking about

975
01:04:07,360 --> 01:04:09,000
my team five as well.

976
01:04:09,000 --> 01:04:10,000
And I said, look around.

977
01:04:10,000 --> 01:04:11,520
Do you see anyone here in a wheelchair?

978
01:04:11,520 --> 01:04:13,440
Why aren't they in here?

979
01:04:13,440 --> 01:04:18,720
Why do they feel that that's too much, that's too hard to go and do?

980
01:04:18,720 --> 01:04:24,840
How do we set up a space where they can do and be everywhere they want to be?

981
01:04:24,840 --> 01:04:28,480
So I think that's, I want to get to the point where people don't stare at someone that's

982
01:04:28,480 --> 01:04:29,480
in a wheelchair.

983
01:04:29,480 --> 01:04:35,000
We celebrate the fact that they're out there enjoying life the way we do.

984
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:38,240
So one of the cool things that we're doing right now, I just got back two weeks ago from

985
01:04:38,240 --> 01:04:40,160
a trip to the Middle East.

986
01:04:40,160 --> 01:04:44,680
I went through Egypt, Jordan, and Israel trying to figure out how could I take someone in

987
01:04:44,680 --> 01:04:48,320
a wheelchair, someone with a disability through a tour, through those areas.

988
01:04:48,320 --> 01:04:50,800
And we're making it happen for 2024.

989
01:04:50,800 --> 01:04:51,800
So what's the spot?

990
01:04:51,800 --> 01:04:54,360
You're doing a lot of cool things.

991
01:04:54,360 --> 01:04:55,360
That's awesome.

992
01:04:55,360 --> 01:05:00,160
Yeah, the comments on normalizing disabilities is what I've always been passionate about.

993
01:05:00,160 --> 01:05:06,720
It seems like it's a project more of education and kind of reframing people's views on disability.

994
01:05:06,720 --> 01:05:11,160
And like you said, some gyms will be so tightly packed together and they might make the excuse

995
01:05:11,160 --> 01:05:12,800
like, oh, we don't work with people with disabilities.

996
01:05:12,800 --> 01:05:16,120
It's like, yeah, obviously you don't because they can't get into your gym.

997
01:05:16,120 --> 01:05:19,160
So it's like, yeah, no one's ever going to come to your gym because it's not accessible

998
01:05:19,160 --> 01:05:20,160
in that regard.

999
01:05:20,160 --> 01:05:23,560
So yeah, the normalizing disabilities is essential to me.

1000
01:05:23,560 --> 01:05:28,400
I think inclusion is not just working with people with disabilities and isolation.

1001
01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:32,160
It's creating systems and environments where they can coexist among their peers.

1002
01:05:32,160 --> 01:05:36,960
So that's been the model that we've tried to adopt at my gym here and then the model

1003
01:05:36,960 --> 01:05:40,360
that we try to communicate to people with our curriculum as well.

1004
01:05:40,360 --> 01:05:46,960
Terrence, thanks for joining me today. It was the conversation lift up to the expectations

1005
01:05:46,960 --> 01:05:47,960
that I had for it.

1006
01:05:47,960 --> 01:05:51,520
So I really appreciate you taking the time.

1007
01:05:51,520 --> 01:05:52,520
My pleasure.

1008
01:05:52,520 --> 01:05:56,680
I appreciate the opportunity and I'm thankful for the work that you're doing outside in

1009
01:05:56,680 --> 01:05:57,680
Massachusetts as well.

1010
01:05:57,680 --> 01:06:03,080
Yeah, we'll leave some links to my team triumph in the show notes and I'll follow up with

1011
01:06:03,080 --> 01:06:07,800
you to get any relevant information that you want to share with the audience.

1012
01:06:07,800 --> 01:06:09,480
But again, thank you for your time.

1013
01:06:09,480 --> 01:06:10,480
You're welcome.

1014
01:06:10,480 --> 01:06:12,960
It sounds good to have a blessed day.

1015
01:06:12,960 --> 01:06:13,960
Thanks.

1016
01:06:13,960 --> 01:06:16,560
Thank you for listening to the Adaptex podcast.

1017
01:06:16,560 --> 01:06:20,440
Our effort to amplify the ideas of our guests and create more inclusive and accessible industries

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01:06:20,440 --> 01:06:23,560
is futile unless these episodes reach a larger audience.

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01:06:23,560 --> 01:06:27,440
If you enjoyed our discussion today, please leave us a rating or review on whichever platform

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you use.

1021
01:06:28,440 --> 01:06:31,440
And if you would like to learn more about Adaptex, the course that we teach to health

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01:06:31,440 --> 01:06:35,280
and fitness professionals and the projects that our organization is working on, you can

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01:06:35,280 --> 01:06:39,720
subscribe to our newsletter through our website, www.adaptex.org.

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01:06:39,720 --> 01:07:07,800
Until next Monday.