1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,840 Welcome to the AdaptX podcast where we have discussions with individuals who 2 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:07,360 are building accessible businesses or products advocating for inclusion or 3 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:10,760 excelling in adaptive sports. Our intentions never to speak on behalf of 4 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:13,800 those with disabilities but rather to give them a platform to amplify their 5 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:18,120 ideas, voice, and learn strategies to scale our impact and help other businesses 6 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:22,620 become more inclusive. Today I'm joined by Evan Schwerbrock. A few months after 7 00:00:22,620 --> 00:00:26,200 earning his bachelor's degree in health sciences from Bradley University, Evan 8 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:30,800 developed Lieber's hereditary optic neuropathy and became legally blind. While 9 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:33,920 adapting to this new normal, Evan went on to receive a master's degree in 10 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:37,560 kinesiology with a concentration in applied exercise physiology from the 11 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:42,120 University of Illinois, Chicago. We're big fans of U of I because of Adam 12 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:45,800 Bleakney and all the work they do for wheelchair racing. Now Adam is a 13 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:49,480 certified personal trainer and fitness nutrition specialist through NASM and 14 00:00:49,480 --> 00:00:53,120 runs the online resource Cane and Able Fitness for individuals with visual 15 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:58,080 impairments. Evan, thank you for joining us today. Of course, thank you so much for 16 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:03,520 having me. Can you maybe take me back to first your first university 17 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:08,800 experience kind of going into Bradley and why you wanted to pursue health 18 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:16,040 sciences? Yeah, so I had gotten an opportunity to do a lot of really cool 19 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:19,480 things in high school. I went on to what I call boarding school but it was a 20 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:23,080 math and science academy where we had to do these different service hours. 21 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:28,080 I was always a kid who didn't care as much about math and science and I was 22 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:31,760 just staying afloat there. I really liked the physical stuff. So I would talk to 23 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:35,640 our PE teacher who was a former bodybuilder all the time and she was 24 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:40,640 super accommodating to me and just gave me all kinds of time that she really 25 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:43,480 probably shouldn't know because I was probably asking a lot of really dumb 26 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:48,520 questions. So I was very interested. I wound up helping start a student athletic 27 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:52,640 trainer program there where you can do your service hours by helping out the 28 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:57,600 sports teams and the athletic trainer in order to wrap ankles and get that 29 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:00,920 kind of stuff ready and we got kind of into some rehabby things there. And then 30 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:09,400 I got to do a study basically all on my own at the Feinberg School of Medicine 31 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:14,240 at Northwestern University with her physical therapy group with stroke 32 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:19,280 patients and then using a fancy robot to help analyze the force velocity curve. 33 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:25,960 So I really enjoyed that project and really wanted to help people but that 34 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:30,880 experience kind of lent me into physical therapy things and then once I got into 35 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:35,600 undergrad and was working out all the time and started shadowing the strength 36 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:38,960 coaches and doing things like that I realized I wanted to work with more 37 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:42,600 active populations not just help people after they're already broken but 38 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:47,040 instead get ahead of that and make sure they're able to help people way before 39 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:53,040 they're broken so that they don't break down nearly as early. So those initial 40 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:57,240 kind of experiences and fitness kind of led you to pursue this degree in health 41 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:04,320 sciences and during that time you became legally blind. So can you maybe kind of 42 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:08,160 take me through the months leading up to that? Were you symptomatic in any ways? 43 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:15,920 One eye, both eyes? Yeah so I had graduated from undergrad and then was 44 00:03:15,920 --> 00:03:23,440 basically doing like a gap year assessing my options and working a couple 45 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:26,680 different jobs in the fitness industry. I was a high school strength coach for 46 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:33,040 that summer working as a personal trainer and overseeing a college fitness 47 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:42,920 center and I was playing just regular recreational volleyball at our YMCA and 48 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:49,480 this was in November 2014. I was usually pretty good so I had been forced to 49 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:55,480 play a lot in undergrad and everything with my friends and then one day I thought 50 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:58,600 my contacts were off, thought the lights were just bugging me or something was 51 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:04,160 something was weird and then I got hit in the face and I always like to kind of 52 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:08,000 use shock value of it was actually my eighth grade teacher who was on the other 53 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:13,600 team who hit the ball and I got hit in the face so I was like that that's like 54 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:16,940 never happened. I've never been hit in the face before I'm always able to 55 00:04:16,940 --> 00:04:21,160 react really quickly but I didn't even see it coming so keep playing. 56 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:26,280 Wanda was going to serve and I throw the ball up and I lose it. I don't even know 57 00:04:26,280 --> 00:04:29,320 where the ball is so I just randomly swing and it like hits the ground like 58 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:37,080 10 feet in front of me. So it was that day I realized something's up. Wanda 59 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:44,160 was getting an eye appointment and very quickly realized nothing was being able 60 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:49,880 to be fixed in the front and then we took pictures of my nerves, my optic nerves 61 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:56,400 and they were pretty well shot already. So within two weeks I'd gone from 62 00:04:56,400 --> 00:05:00,760 correctable vision, contacts and everything, drive in all that stuff to a 63 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:06,480 death ride in a car, put my keys away after I got that preliminary diagnosis 64 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:12,160 and we were done just figuring out how to adapt and go from there. I believe since 65 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:15,560 it's a mitochondrial disease it can only be inherited by them through the 66 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:20,440 mother. Is that correct? Did anyone in your family have it? Yeah we've got a 67 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:24,200 couple people on my mom's side who have it. So was it always on your radar or 68 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:29,120 something you were concerned about or? Not really especially we were told like 69 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:35,080 it is onset later in life and has to do with like alcohol or drug abuse and I 70 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:38,200 was like well I'm not very old or anything like that and in terms of 71 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:43,880 we were kind of misinformed it can show up and usually does show up in younger 72 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:49,120 guys who are about you know early 20s or so. But I still had doctors telling me 73 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:53,120 like you're like the healthiest person we've ever seen with this disease or 74 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:57,880 anything so I was kind of a weird anomaly still but yeah I wasn't really 75 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:02,040 going through life thinking anything about that until all of a sudden I was 76 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:07,240 like oh that's right it's probably it. Yeah so how does that manifest just for 77 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:10,760 people who aren't familiar with the diagnosis so what what amount of usable 78 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:19,760 vision do you have today? So where where mine stopped is I have some vision in my 79 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:25,040 peripherals and then down the middle is pretty dead. I always talk about well 80 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:29,960 everybody has that kind of little blind spot in the right eye where you can 81 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:34,120 like kind of there's always like a piece of paper tests I remember doing in 82 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:37,280 school and where it teaches about this but your brain actually makes up what's 83 00:06:37,280 --> 00:06:40,600 there so it takes context clues and tries to fill in that gap so it's not 84 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:44,640 confusing a blurry spot. So my brain is constantly trying to do that with what 85 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:50,360 tiny little blurs it actually gets down the middle so it winds up being a bunch 86 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:55,640 of little dots and stars jumping around and trying to confuse me and that leads 87 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:59,360 to some hallucinations and little things like that that you learn to control and 88 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:04,080 understand what's real and being manifested and what's not but my 89 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:08,440 peripheral is what I kind of rely on a little bit more. I would imagine that can 90 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:15,240 be both physically and emotionally and intellectually exhausting. Do you find 91 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:19,600 that like you fatigue a lot quicker just over the course of the day trying to 92 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:23,920 work or kind of do you have a different setup for how you for how you can work 93 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:32,360 effectively? Yeah the first couple years was pretty rough fatigue wise. I would be 94 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:36,120 able to focus very long bright lights you know I couldn't sit in a movie theater 95 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:39,440 for that long or I'll just sit there with my sunglasses on things like that. I 96 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:43,800 still have some white sensitivity a little bit nausea things like that but 97 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:48,320 able to control it a lot more you tend to get used to it pretty well. Yeah what 98 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:52,960 was your initial response to the diagnosis and like what do you think is 99 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:57,200 like the social emotional differences between an inherited disability later in 100 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:07,360 life as opposed to someone who was blind from birth? That's a good one. Me 101 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:13,720 apparently how it's pretty chill. We had my brother's birthday party that day when 102 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:17,520 I when we figured out what was going on and I tried to keep a hush-hush but the 103 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:24,560 eye doctor called and read me out but it was I don't know I've got a very tough 104 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:30,400 family especially my mom so she will just shrug off surgeries or literally 105 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:35,520 cancer at times just power through treatments and stuff so it's kind of 106 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:40,200 ingrained in us to be able to power through and just figure out solutions 107 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:45,160 through action so I was just kind of locked into that how I was gonna adapt 108 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:51,000 so I gave myself a couple days and and then we were trying to just figure out 109 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:55,600 life and faking my way through that it was a couple jobs still and zooming on my 110 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:58,240 phone when people weren't there so I could do my computer work things like 111 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:04,680 that but I'm not sure so much how it compares to someone who would have had 112 00:09:04,680 --> 00:09:11,040 such a disease all their lives I just know that as long as you have a good 113 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:17,600 support system that social emotional aspect can be a lot easier yeah that 114 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:22,480 mindset and like the support system is a pretty similarly echoed sentiment when 115 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:27,920 we talk to clients with like SEI or who've had like a drastic overhaul to 116 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:34,000 their lifestyle due to a disability later in life and I think it's an important 117 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:38,560 message to communicate because a lot of times like the medical model of disability 118 00:09:38,560 --> 00:09:44,320 people assume that everyone with a disability resents their condition or 119 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:49,600 that we should sympathize for them whereas a lot of the conversations that 120 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:55,040 I've had people have the mindset that they've taken towards their disability 121 00:09:55,040 --> 00:10:02,800 is is pretty motivating so I kind of like the the message you communicated there 122 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:06,760 did you ever were you ever concerned that you weren't going like you were 123 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:09,560 gonna have to change occupations or that you weren't going to be able to do what 124 00:10:09,560 --> 00:10:16,920 you want to do I'm pretty stubborn so I kind of just figured I figure something 125 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:22,560 out because I hadn't even applied to grad schools yet when this happened I was 126 00:10:22,560 --> 00:10:28,600 I was working on it and researching ones to do and things like that but then after 127 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:34,480 after we figured this out I quit applying anywhere except for University 128 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:37,840 Illinois Chicago because my sister was there and she was willing to be 129 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:45,640 supportive and and help me out just surviving during that time so I just 130 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:48,760 kind of put it in God's hands and said if I'm gonna go to grad school it's gonna 131 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:52,840 be here that's gonna be it and then we'll figure it out from there and 132 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:57,760 luckily I got in and we kind of just kept trucking did you know that U of I 133 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:02,480 was National Paralympic Training Center and worked with a lot of Paralympic 134 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:08,040 athletes so I get to kind of relive that experience every year through this this 135 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:11,840 camp that I work in St. Louis where these young adults come in with visual 136 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:16,160 impairments they're like I've never met a blind person so I would thought I was 137 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:20,600 gonna be part of that statistic as well not knowing how to advocate for myself 138 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:23,120 not knowing what resources there were I thought there was gonna be nothing 139 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:28,680 except maybe a software to help me and that be about it so I had no idea for 140 00:11:28,680 --> 00:11:36,600 like the first probably half of grad school how I was going to adapt let alone 141 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:41,680 understand there was a bigger community up there so we actually did for one of 142 00:11:41,680 --> 00:11:46,720 my classes one of my teachers brought in a guy who was really good and on the 143 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:50,840 Paralympic team for wheelchair basketball and they had a whole wheelchair 144 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:55,120 basketball day for us had all the equipment there at the gym apparently 145 00:11:55,120 --> 00:12:00,000 tucked away in a closet and we we played that for a whole class so that really 146 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:02,880 helped me understand that there was a bigger community there and get 147 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:08,240 to appreciate it yeah absolutely and now are you working full-time as a personal 148 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:14,280 trainer I'm in between jobs right now I'm actually trying to just build up 149 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:20,160 can enable fitness currently there there were some different issues with my 150 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:25,200 disability and a workplace actually up in Alaska and we're having to deal 151 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:31,000 legally throughout all of that and figure it out but in the meantime making 152 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:34,200 the best of things this is giving me a really good opportunity to work on 153 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:38,880 can enable fitness a lot more so being able to create more content and then 154 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:43,320 got to do a trip and do some seminars in Medellin, Colombia and all kinds of fun 155 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:48,840 stuff like that so trying to put my focus into this population currently yeah 156 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:52,600 absolutely maybe we can dive into that a little further when you were first 157 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:58,200 diagnosed did you were you able to find any resources for training with a 158 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:04,200 visual impairment or did you find the information to be pretty scarce I had I 159 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:12,880 found nothing really I'm especially approached at level I wish to a lot of 160 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:19,800 help for people with disabilities is a little bit more like yeah you did it and 161 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:25,200 just doing a little bit of something I know you guys are different but I've 162 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:30,200 worked with many different disability groups growing up and that seemed to be 163 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:34,080 what it was it's like a pat on the back I go you stood up and down in a chair 164 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:39,080 five times yay we're done so I wanted to make sure that something really 165 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:43,480 efficacious what was going on out there and yeah I did not find that in my first 166 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:46,640 few years of having a visual impairment yeah that's one of the narratives that 167 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:52,600 we try to combat against is like the idea that solely due to the presence of a 168 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:56,000 disability that you should expect less or that you should congratulate someone 169 00:13:56,000 --> 00:14:01,040 for performing rudimentary tasks and while it's like well-intentioned it 170 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:04,920 continues to kind of marginalize and lowers like expectations that people 171 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:10,680 have for people with disabilities so it's a intended to be positive but ends up 172 00:14:10,680 --> 00:14:14,920 actually having negative repercussions at least from my perspective but I try 173 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:19,160 not to be like too cynical because I know people are doing their best to 174 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:23,200 support people with disabilities but they aren't always knowledgeable enough to 175 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:28,160 know how to push them appropriately or maybe it's just what they've been 176 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:32,560 exposed to so I can appreciate I can appreciate the approach to trying to 177 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:37,000 like raise the standard and raise the bar for people with disabilities you 178 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:45,520 competed in strongman currently or previously yeah I'm revving back up 179 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:50,640 trying to get back in shape to do some some cool competitions again but I think 180 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:54,520 I've done 11 strongman competitions and those have all been since my diagnosis 181 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:59,240 yeah and what kind of drew you to strongman do you find that it's a sport 182 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:04,240 that has fewer barriers to participation with your visual impairment there? 183 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:11,280 No the strength sports it's probably the has the most barriers but to me it's the 184 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:18,120 most fun yeah there's something different every time so I was drawn to it 185 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:22,800 because I'm a farm boy at heart and it's just moving weird junk and getting 186 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:27,360 do cool things picking up stones and pulling trucks and things like that so I 187 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:32,760 was really drawn to just how less A to B it is and said you just get to kind of 188 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:36,400 bully things around have fun with it yeah that's awesome and do you want to 189 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:40,440 maybe highlight some of the successes you've had so you want to do an estate 190 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:45,760 championship a few years back yeah yeah a few years ago I won Illinois strongest 191 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:51,480 man swept my weight class and then they actually it was really cool sometimes 192 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:55,400 they do it where all the guys do all the same weights regardless of weight class 193 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:59,440 so if it's a speed event then you know a benefit smaller guys and if it's a heavy 194 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:05,080 event then it's larger guys things like that and pound for pound I got barely 195 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:09,640 second place to a guy who travels internationally and does it pro so that 196 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:14,840 was that was really fun that was a good day for me I always say I was listening 197 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:18,960 for two that day because my mom was competing too and she got a little 198 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:25,680 injured so we kind of just made up for that and went into a different mode that 199 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:30,840 day and then there's another competition that I had one back in 200 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:38,120 Peoria Illinois as well which had to dig deep for that one too but it was one of 201 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:42,400 the first ones I've had I had both my brothers there for so it's really fun 202 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:46,360 because you kind of sit around and hang out with your buddies and and your 203 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:50,920 family and eat fruit gushers and then go listen stuff and it turns into some 204 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:55,480 really fun days that's yeah that's awesome awesome way of recounting those 205 00:16:55,480 --> 00:17:02,600 stories do you do you find that like event organizers are ever concerned or 206 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:08,200 taken aback by the fact that you have a visual impairment no I wouldn't say that 207 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:13,760 at all I they have been incredibly accommodating I wouldn't say to a 208 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:18,920 fault but like very very very nice I get an extra minute to kind of feel things 209 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:23,280 out and set things up and understand where where transitions will be if I 210 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:29,000 move from one stone platform to another things like that and it was pretty funny 211 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:35,360 at 2019 Nationals there was like it was at that point the biggest 212 00:17:35,360 --> 00:17:40,440 strawman competition ever the most people ever out in Columbus Ohio and the 213 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:44,800 promoter at the rules meeting is like no one gets a coach on the floor except 214 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:48,960 this one person who is blind that is that there's a only person I am allowing 215 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:53,600 to have anything and don't say a thing about them getting anything and just 216 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:59,280 told all thousand people that were there like they get an accommodation don't 217 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:02,560 even talk to me so it was pretty cool because everybody you know you got 218 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:08,120 everybody look around the stands like oh who is it who is it so it was was very 219 00:18:08,120 --> 00:18:12,440 very fortunate that they are just super helpful it's a very very kind community 220 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:17,120 for sure yeah I was gonna ask if you ever use a guide like I'm in the marathon 221 00:18:17,120 --> 00:18:22,080 world and obviously a lot of people with visual impairments run with guides do 222 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:28,360 you do use a guide and competition or it depends on the event and strawman it 223 00:18:28,360 --> 00:18:32,600 could be a bit of anything so if it's like a truck pull where you use a rope 224 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:37,880 the rope is your guide really there so that that isn't too bad but then there's 225 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:42,320 been some events where it's just like I don't know left from right if I throw a 226 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:47,760 sandbag and it doesn't get as high and I will get it again and help with that so 227 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:50,760 just different things like that I don't know where starting lines are finishing 228 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:56,000 lines are so depending on the event is how we'll use a different guide whether 229 00:18:56,000 --> 00:19:01,640 it be in front of me I've had even like a farmers walk down like a city street 230 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:05,480 what it was so it's easy to be left to right because I had no guidelines with 231 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:10,000 my peripherals I had two guys yelling at me on either side of me in order for me 232 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:14,480 to like want to believe you know what I was going straight or not so it's really 233 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:19,400 cool because if that by event have to adapt very different ways yeah like that 234 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:24,160 what is since I'm kind of in the content creation space as well putting 235 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:29,520 together our course what is your approach to creating information like 236 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:34,600 disseminating information do you look for literature is there really even that 237 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:38,640 much literature on fitness strategies for people visual impairments or is it 238 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:45,160 more anecdote yeah it tends to be more anecdote there's there's a little bit of 239 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:50,800 research but not very much at all you kind of have to delve into other issues 240 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:56,840 and that's where my master's degree in kinesiology really helps out is able to 241 00:19:56,840 --> 00:20:01,640 kind of have a unique perspective of experience mixed with education so I'm 242 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:05,880 kind of mixing the biomechanics physiology of different diseases think about 243 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:10,800 the stability of some things like that in order to create pertinent content and 244 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:16,560 then that also changes how I address people so a lot of people you know want 245 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:22,320 to create Instagram videos with better just share video and not describe things 246 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:26,120 very well so it's working on audio description and then I have different 247 00:20:26,120 --> 00:20:31,080 ways of creating teched out cues for someone to feel intrinsically and then 248 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:36,520 turning that into more of an audible cue so that you're able to tell a client 249 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:40,720 with a visual impairment what to do and they understand how it's supposed to 250 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:45,200 feel because they can't just watch you and pick it up yeah maybe piggybacking 251 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:52,440 kind of on that topic maybe if you were to walk into my gym or if you were to 252 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:57,240 go to a gym and work with a personal trainer for the first time maybe someone 253 00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:00,760 who doesn't have any experience working with someone with a visual impairment we 254 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:06,200 only have one client at our gym who is fully blind and has been since birth but 255 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:11,760 if you were to go into a gym and work with a new coach what would you want 256 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:16,400 them to ask you kind of what would you want that process to look like maybe 257 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:24,000 from start to finish so building that report is huge from the get-go and I 258 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:29,280 actually have to do this myself every year at that camp I mentioned in St. Louis 259 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:33,440 the programs was called so the SOAR program they bring in these young adults 260 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:40,440 a lot of them haven't been allowed to do PE there's a really sad this trend of 261 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:47,400 children being just put on the side for PE class and so they don't have very much 262 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:52,840 physical capacity or kind of understand those cues so we started building that up 263 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:57,280 just by asking what they like to do what they've done before and then being able 264 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:01,400 to go through some basic movement assessments and then kind of during that 265 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:06,760 process when you're you're figuring each other out always asking like okay what 266 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:11,400 is your level of visual impairment and then another really big one that I 267 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,280 always hammer home with different medical professionals and stuff who I'm 268 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:18,360 consulting with is make sure you ask about other symptoms of their disease 269 00:22:18,360 --> 00:22:23,960 everyone thinks oh they're blind that's the biggest problem but there are 270 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:27,440 tend to be a lot of other issues that come with different diseases that 271 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:31,080 manifest that blindness so you have to make sure to take that into account as 272 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:36,160 well and sometimes there'll be even other parts of a disease that mess with 273 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:41,080 someone way more than the visual impairment any any specific examples of 274 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:47,160 that or do you have any co-occurring like symptoms yeah me I get neuropathy in my 275 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:51,200 hands and my feet at times so everybody's it's like hey your shoes are untied 276 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,960 and it's like well that that helps it not be too tight so I can feel my feet 277 00:22:54,960 --> 00:23:02,480 better throughout the day and then kind of disorganization or people being too 278 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:06,960 loud or getting in the way and things like that that'll throw my my just 279 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:12,320 nervous system off more so actually get blinded so if things are organized and 280 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:18,480 I'm able to understand what's in a space that helps a lot what level of physical 281 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:23,520 support should a fitness professional provide and obviously they shouldn't 282 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:29,360 assume that you want to have like a hand-on-hand or hand-on elbow guide but 283 00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:35,040 what level of physical support do you like or have you found that most people 284 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:42,040 are comfortable with I think it really depends on the individual a lot of 285 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:46,200 blind people use human guides especially in a newer environment and especially if 286 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:51,000 they're newer to using a cane or being visually impaired me I hate human guide 287 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:54,560 where you hold on to somebody's elbow and like back of their arm and follow 288 00:23:54,560 --> 00:24:01,040 them I kind of like just just rolling and having my cane and using my what 289 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:05,400 little I have and everything so it's gonna kind of depend on the person so 290 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:11,200 opening that gate and asking like hey do you want do you do human guide or any 291 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:15,840 any assistance going around you just ready to roll and making it really nonchalant 292 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:21,520 and not weird that that can always be helpful to ask that and see what they 293 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:26,680 like and then also know that might even change over time yeah absolutely that's 294 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:30,840 a good a good framework for I mean most of these things can be alleviated by 295 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:34,840 just having genuine conversations with the client I think sometimes fitness 296 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:39,080 professionals are concerned about doing or saying the wrong thing whereas at 297 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:44,120 least I've found if your intentions are pure most people are are eager to explain 298 00:24:44,120 --> 00:24:47,640 as much as possible or they're eager for you to make mistakes under the premise 299 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:51,440 that you're doing what you can to support their needs so I think kind of 300 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:55,240 alleviating some of those concerns for fitness professionals is one of the 301 00:24:55,240 --> 00:25:00,680 things that I hope we can provide absolutely and it's nice also as the 302 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:04,600 client no matter if you're visually impaired disabled or not it's good to 303 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:09,160 feel understood in a bit so person putting forth that effort is really great 304 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:13,960 instead of someone who is just really awkward and then yells at you because if 305 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:18,040 you have visual impairment they also need to scream at you so yeah it helps when 306 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:22,200 people do it right that is one of the communication things I see so much that 307 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:29,240 like I take care of a boy with Down syndrome and autism and he's 19 and 308 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:33,280 there's some people that just like elevate their voice and like yell at him 309 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,840 like it's going to improve his comprehension if they talk louder it's 310 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:40,720 just such a weird phenomenon to me but I guess it's just people talk either 311 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:46,840 woefully slow or woefully loud it's just kind of a funny thing well not not 312 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:52,560 funny but I do often tell people that like whether you currently work with 313 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,520 people with disabilities or not like these experiences make you a better 314 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:59,040 coach for all populations like you said like when you're working with someone 315 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:06,000 with a visual impairment your ability to communicate audio cues has to be so much 316 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:11,080 stronger and it has to be concise and it has to be precise and that's gonna kind 317 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:16,920 of make you better when queuing any any population so I was curious like as a 318 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:22,200 trainer did you work obviously you worked with some able-bodied and and 319 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:26,560 clients without visual impairments did they ever have assumptions about your 320 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:34,520 ability to coach them some people you know there's always gonna be people who 321 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:39,560 doubt or don't understand and then make a lot of assumptions which has led to the 322 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:44,200 the the wrong information we talked about before but I've been in some 323 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:48,560 different situations where people are very understanding and even just like 324 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:52,560 you you can't even tell that he's blind and all this stuff or people will think 325 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:56,960 other people when they tell them about my condition they think those people are 326 00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:02,160 lying about me even you know stuff like that so I can be a pretty good actor and 327 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:06,960 I I take a lot of preparation and thought into kind of rigging the room or my 328 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:11,480 space in order to be able to get the right angles and put people in the right 329 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:16,040 position so I still a lot of overthinking and I think people understand 330 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:21,040 that and appreciate that and we still get the job done I was a professor at a 331 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:25,360 college for four years teaching this stuff and then also did four years at a 332 00:27:25,360 --> 00:27:29,560 chiropractic clinic as a rehabilitative exercise specialist and we didn't really 333 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:34,600 have any issues in either of those realms people were able to understand and 334 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:38,880 we're just able to adapt. That's awesome I love the educational background in 335 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:43,880 addition to the to the lived experiences it makes you better than anyone really 336 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:49,280 for communicating on this topic both having that academic prowess and and 337 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:52,800 the anecdote what have been your greatest influences from a from a 338 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:59,720 training standpoint? Probably like Louis Simmons from West Side Barbell, Charles 339 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:06,120 Apoloquin who you know passed away sadly but probably the greatest strength 340 00:28:06,120 --> 00:28:11,280 coach of all time from a numbers perspective and then Caldeeds is another 341 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:16,840 big one from University of Minnesota and then you know if if you're good at 342 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:19,920 training you're constantly learning and cherry picking from other people things 343 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:24,720 like that so I was watching like Josh Bryant you know hardcore arms training 344 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:28,040 videos yesterday to pick up different techniques and kind of keep those fresh. 345 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:33,640 Yeah the tri-phasic stuff from Cal was a great resource for me and obviously 346 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:38,520 cherry picking Louis Simmons stuff like we work with high school and collegiate 347 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:43,640 athletes a lot and it's obviously a different population than powerlifting 348 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:48,000 but the special strengths and and learning how to how to develop different 349 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,960 physical qualities is imperative and I kind of always say like being a 350 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:56,320 effective adaptive fitness coach is first and foremost being like a really 351 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,880 good strength-conditioned professional as a whole because you can't really like 352 00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:04,920 creatively apply these principles unless you have a a wide depth of 353 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:10,280 information to pull from so like you can you can't creatively come up with 354 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,080 solutions for someone with a visual impairment or someone with an 355 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,840 intellectual disability unless you have a variety of experience and 356 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:21,120 intelligence to pull from so while you might just be interested in the 357 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:25,440 disability piece it's imperative that you learn the strength and conditioning 358 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:30,600 and learn from the people that have done it to a very high degree so you can 359 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:35,760 better serve those clients. Absolutely I think of it kind of like a tool belt like 360 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:40,560 you need more tools in your arsenal and with people who have disabilities you're 361 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:43,640 gonna need some more specialized tools as all you can't just use a hammer and 362 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:47,560 screwdriver you have to be able to have these more unique pieces to your 363 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:53,000 knowledge base so if you're able to have a broad set of tools and learn from 364 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,840 many different things you're gonna be able to very creatively apply it to our 365 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:59,880 population. Yeah absolutely what technology do you use in the gym or what 366 00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:04,280 technology do you think gym should have to support people with visual impairments? 367 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:10,800 I don't think that they should have much extra technology I'm kind of a 368 00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:17,200 stickler for you can't just magically create an environment that is is going 369 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:24,920 to really fit a very small percentage of our population. Instead we as a 370 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:29,240 visually impaired population have to learn how to operate within certain 371 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:34,320 systems. There is certainly a middle ground that's not being met yet I think 372 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:38,440 that we're heading towards that direction though I've had some different 373 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:42,960 colleges and things like that reach out and want some different ideas of how to 374 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:48,160 make their facilities more accessible but being over the top and I even think 375 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:51,640 about somebody's brought up like oh let's put Braille on the machines and 376 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:56,520 then you can have every weight set like labeled on every pen loaded machine with 377 00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:01,160 Braille and we're like no it makes no sense like people are just gonna think 378 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:04,920 that's that's just like some goo or something and like just flick it off and 379 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:10,200 it's not gonna make it a week so like can you imagine like people who don't 380 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:14,920 know what it is during rest periods just like I'm gonna be a hero you know yeah 381 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:20,680 yeah take this off so instead I think a lot of it is gonna be about learning how 382 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:25,800 to navigate typical gym settings I had to do that down in St. Louis where I went 383 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:32,600 to a big commercial gym on my own I had to figure it out and it was a very 384 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:37,360 unique experience especially trying to get the people who work there to 385 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:39,920 understand like oh there's something different about this guy we have to 386 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:43,040 treat him a little bit different like you can't just be like oh yeah the 387 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:45,920 shoulder press machine is over here and they just sprint away that's not gonna 388 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:50,960 work so there's these different accommodations and a lot of this I 389 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:54,920 cover in my free gym acclimation program which we put up on our website have 390 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:58,920 audio description for and everything like that where we created a program that's 391 00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:03,400 just three weeks long and slowly stair steps you into being a blind person 392 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:07,840 starting at a gym where day one you're figuring out where the bathrooms are 393 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:13,640 where the general weight area is where like the stretching area is a spin room 394 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:18,440 things like that and then starting to build in more pieces of like how to work 395 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:22,160 a pinloading machine how to load weights and hit certain weight numbers on a 396 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:27,240 barbell and get used to doing that memorizing the dumbbell rack and what 397 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:31,720 order is supposed to be in things like that if you really chunk these things 398 00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,880 out I think it's a visually impaired person you can have a lot of success 399 00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:40,080 yeah I would love to share that guide with our audience if that's a free 400 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,280 resource on your website we can definitely link it in the in the show 401 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:47,680 notes because that acclimation period is probably essential it's interesting that 402 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:52,600 you're the the second guest I've talked to the other one was with an SEI who 403 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:57,960 kind of adopt this perspective like it's not the gyms responsibility to adapt to 404 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:03,240 me it's my responsibility to adapt to the gym I think that's that's an 405 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:08,720 interesting obviously it's a reassuring standpoint from like my perspective as a 406 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:13,480 gym owner but at the same time I want to do everything I can to kind of be 407 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:18,120 proactive and making sure my facilities as accessible as possible are there any 408 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:23,160 like small universal design like aspects that you would that you would want to 409 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:26,600 see at a gym that you think and because I think sometimes people think you have 410 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:30,600 to drastically overhaul a facility to make it accessible when in reality you 411 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:34,440 can make a few small steps like any small steps that you can recommend for 412 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:37,280 people with visual impairments 413 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:43,000 different sort of tactile maps I think are useful and I've had a lot of positive 414 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:47,000 feedback about oh that system would be really great helping to understand the 415 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:51,720 layout of a gym because a lot of it is once you get to a gym floor it's it's 416 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:55,720 usually loud you know there's usually music going there's people talking 417 00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:59,000 because apparently that's what you do with the gym now you can throw on weights 418 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:03,000 things like that and it's it's a lot of stimulus and it's hard to understand 419 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:06,040 where things are and like play the echoes of the room and understand what's 420 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:09,480 where so it's really good to be able to have some sort of like tactile map as 421 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:15,200 well so there was a college who was just like oh we could create these like braille 422 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:19,760 maps or something like that in order to help us like just have it at the desk 423 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:24,320 and then show a blind person how kind of the setup is so they have a general 424 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,920 layout in their head and then definitely walking around with someone who works 425 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:33,680 there getting the full layout understanding where stuff is is huge 426 00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:38,000 and then even being willing to do that more than once 427 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:42,480 I know when I just went to the commercial gym the second time I went in 428 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:46,400 I still didn't know even close to where everything was because you can't just 429 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:50,560 memorize a hundred machines and where the squat racks are and how that 430 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:54,880 went all that stuff let alone not run into people constantly so 431 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:58,400 it's gonna be about just chunking it out so I think that's that's really huge 432 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:04,560 is taking that that very intentional time to learn certain areas and that's one 433 00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:06,960 of the biggest accommodations that help a lot 434 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,640 yeah that's that's a perfect small small recommendation easy to implement 435 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:17,120 not super cost not super costly from the gym owner standpoint not time consuming 436 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:21,200 just something that would be easy to make people feel good about the gym and I'm 437 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:26,160 sure people without visual impairments could probably benefit from some sort of 438 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:29,360 some sort of mapping system as well it would help them 439 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:35,920 learn how to navigate the gym do you do you see any like mobile solutions 440 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:39,840 becoming relevant have you tried any of the things that 441 00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:45,920 like kind of map out environments and and give you audio cues to a phone 442 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:50,080 um not so much I know a lot of that's being developed 443 00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:54,240 um there's actually a a blind Japanese woman named Chieko 444 00:35:54,240 --> 00:35:58,160 at Carnegie Mellon who is doing a lot of like artificial intelligence work 445 00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:01,680 in that realm where it maps stuff out and then makes it more accessible and you 446 00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:06,720 can use different apps I have not uh really dug into that too much yet 447 00:36:06,720 --> 00:36:11,520 but it sounds very interesting yeah there was one company that I had a few 448 00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:16,720 conversations with and the premise of it was that you have these beacons 449 00:36:16,720 --> 00:36:23,200 that kind of physically map the entirety of the gym and someone can go in and 450 00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:26,480 get these directions through their phone but the thing that seemed to be a 451 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:29,120 little tricky with the gym environment is like 452 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:34,240 sometimes my prowler sleds get parked in like slightly different areas or the 453 00:36:34,240 --> 00:36:37,600 orientation of the med balls kind of gets changed 454 00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:42,320 um or maybe a rowing machine gets moved over a few feet to the left and 455 00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:46,960 I don't know if the the beacons really have the capacity to make those small 456 00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:50,320 adjustments that would be pretty essential if you're being told to walk 457 00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:52,960 straight and they're used to not be a rowing 458 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:57,600 machine there but now there is like it becomes a little bit of a liability so 459 00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:02,400 I wonder how um the combination of AI and these technological solutions will 460 00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:05,920 will kind of come up with a better alternative to that but 461 00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:09,760 it does seem like it would be something that would be a great addition 462 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:14,560 if it if they can come up with a solution yeah it's it's certainly a great 463 00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:18,640 start and I always say like at the gym usually people are the problem you know 464 00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:22,880 leaving junk out or getting in the way or like I'm trying to a sandbag run and 465 00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:27,840 I can't see what's going on um so you know trying to do that with a heavy 466 00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:31,360 sandbag and people just like kind of just like lollygag in the way and like 467 00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:34,720 that guys so I always have to have someone if the track is clear things 468 00:37:34,720 --> 00:37:39,520 like that um so maybe AI will create a solution for them too 469 00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:44,320 maybe yeah I feel like half the time my job is just to make the 10 or 11 people 470 00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:47,440 training at my gym aware of what other people are doing because they just seem 471 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,880 to be in their own in their own space and own world but 472 00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:54,480 we kind of wrap up a lot of these conversations with and we've already 473 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:59,040 talked about this topic a little bit but like as a whole or globally what do 474 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:02,800 you think gyms need to do to be more accessible and inclusive 475 00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:07,840 not maybe only for visual impairments but for people of all abilities 476 00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:11,520 it's a great question um I think just providing 477 00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:15,840 more willingness to help um and maybe it's just a little bit of side training 478 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:20,160 in order to understand how to work with someone with different disabilities 479 00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:24,240 um it doesn't have to be necessarily too in depth because again we're not going 480 00:38:24,240 --> 00:38:28,160 to have a three hour seminar at every gym 481 00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:31,600 to figure out how to treat someone with visual impairments and they're like I 482 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:35,040 have never seen a blind person at the gym anyway which is a whole other problem 483 00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:38,320 um so I think a little bit of background how to work with people with 484 00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:42,960 disabilities and just be kind of have it in the back of everyone's head of that 485 00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:48,000 mindset of being accommodating adaptive inclusive and then just 486 00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:51,360 willing to help in unique ways they didn't really expect to 487 00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:55,520 I think that's really a great start um the gym is a beautiful place to be able 488 00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:59,280 to work through a lot of stuff and improve yourself physically mentally 489 00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:03,680 um even literally get smarter with some of the hormones that get produced 490 00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:08,400 um so we need to make sure that's that's doable for for everyone and I think 491 00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:12,720 making it much more inclusive and especially when the staff is involved 492 00:39:12,720 --> 00:39:17,120 that becomes much more manageable absolutely I think that's a uh 493 00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:20,720 a good thing to wrap up on that was a good conclusion to to that discussion 494 00:39:20,720 --> 00:39:24,640 so Evan thank you for uh for joining us today and sharing the wisdom and we'll 495 00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:28,720 definitely link to the resources that you provide in the show notes and uh 496 00:39:28,720 --> 00:39:32,640 we'll share on our social media stuff leading up to your episode 497 00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:36,320 but really appreciate your time and your expertise 498 00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:38,560 of course thank you so much for having me on and thank you for the work you're 499 00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:41,040 doing out there 500 00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:47,040 thank you for listening to the AdaptX podcast our effort to amplify the ideas 501 00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:50,240 of our guests and create more inclusive and accessible industries is futile 502 00:39:50,240 --> 00:39:53,760 unless these episodes reach a larger audience if you enjoyed our 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