Okay, welcome to the AdaptX podcast where we have discussions with individuals who are
building inclusive and accessible businesses or products advocating for inclusion or excelling
in adaptive sports.
Our intention is never to speak on behalf of those with disabilities but rather amplify
their voice and ideas so you can build more inclusive and accessible businesses as well.
Today we're joined by John McKenzie, a husband, pastor, disability advocate and probably much
more that I'm looking forward to learning about.
So John, thanks for coming out to Lancaster and joining us.
Well, thanks for having me on.
So ironically, 17 years ago today, right, your life changed pretty significantly.
Maybe how often do you think about that day and kind of what do you recall from it?
I mean, the day itself, you know, it was a day really just like today is, you know, it
was a summer day, beautiful.
And I don't think about it often until the month comes and you know, it sneaks up on
me the longer out I get the less I kind of remember it.
But I remember the whole day or the accident, remember everything that happened.
I can go into detail if you want on that.
Yeah.
If you want to maybe give us a little bit of insight into how it happened and what the
environment was like.
Yeah.
You know, I grew up just like any really, you know, average American kid, you know, had
a lot of fun, did a lot of stupid stuff.
And it was just August 9th, 2006, when it happened, a group of us were out skateboarding.
We ended up that night at our local McDonald's in Orange Mass.
And it was like, I don't know, around eight or so.
And I was part-time landscaper at that time.
And my mom called me told me to come home.
I didn't go home because I didn't want to, you know, miss out on any of the fun stuff
going down at the McDonald's parking lot.
Eight o'clock at night in Orange, Massachusetts.
But our friends asked me to go for a little less joy ride around town and said, sure,
hop in the back seat.
As we were pulling out of the McDonald's parking lot, another car full of kids pulled
up next to us, asked the driver for my car if you want a race, turn left.
Next thing I know, we're going 100 miles an hour in the opposite lane.
There's a long straightaway when you need McDonald's to the left.
There's a corner at the end.
And as we went around the corner, the car lost control.
It spun about three times, rolled a bunch of times, went up a banking, up a tree.
And when it landed, I was in the back seat behind the passenger.
And right next to the door, actually the door fell off.
And when the car landed, the top half of my body was out of the car.
The rest of my body was in the car.
So the car landed sideways on my neck and so it broke my neck.
I remember pretty much the whole thing rolling through the air in the car.
It was like this weird slow motion, weightless feeling.
I remember waking up with the car on top of me and everyone was just screaming.
It was utter chaos.
And thankfully I was the only one that got hurt that night.
Everyone else climbed out of the sunroof without a scratch on them.
And I remember being put into the ambulance and taken to an at-home hospital.
And I didn't know I was paralyzed at that point.
I never broke a bone or anything prior to that, surprisingly with growing up with some
motorcross and all that stuff.
But I thought my legs might have been broken.
But then they shipped me in a helicopter to UMass in Worcester and everything gets fuzzy
from there.
Yeah.
Do you still keep in touch with the other people that were in the accident?
It was kind of a weird scenario.
I was in the car with one of my childhood best friends and a bunch of other kids I was pretty
close with.
And after the accident, everyone just kind of veiled.
I've talked to maybe them two or three times in the last 17 years.
And when it first happened, it was a really kind of jarring experience because I was never
the kind of...
Everyone handles this injury different.
Everyone handles becoming disabled, largely different.
And I woke up with just the attitude of, you know, this is my life now.
I'm going to let God use it for whatever he wants to.
And I'm just going to keep pushing forward.
So I never had a real depression state.
And so I never understood why everyone just bailed on me.
You know, at 17, it's kind of an interesting thing to think about.
You know, I'm the same kid that I was six months ago.
I'm just sitting down now.
You know?
So no.
Do you hold any animosity towards any of them?
Probably during the time I was a little frustrated, you know, like it was more along the lines
like, well, what's wrong with me?
You know, my friend too, I was so close with don't come around anymore, you know?
But I've waited for given them.
It's like, I always say, you know, when we got in the car that night, nobody was like,
hey, nobody really fun.
Let's go paralyze John, you know?
It wasn't an intentional thing.
We were just young kids doing young kids thing.
Yeah, but yeah, so that kind of kind of strange, you know?
You're now our third guest that's had an SEI and there seems to be a similar theme at
least in the first two, Jesse and Tim, where they kind of talked about how their life was
better after their disability or it changed them in a lot of positive ways.
Can you identify maybe some ways in which your life improved after your SEI?
Oh, yeah.
I mean, 100%, you know, I always get asked like, would I go back?
If I couldn't go back in time, would I?
Right?
And I mean, yeah, would it be great to walk again and not deal with constant nerve pain
and all the fun stuff that comes along with having an SEI?
But everything I've learned over the years, how this accident has shaped me as a man,
as an advocate, as a, just my whole mindset, you know, it's really been, it's been, I hate
to say beneficial, but it has, you know, pre-injury, you know, my life was surrounded
with partying, you know, it's pretty wild, very rebellious.
And after the accident, you know, I'm kind of screwed my head on straight a little bit.
And it just, it really taught me a lot about adversity and just, you know, pushing forward
no matter what.
And it just made me so grateful to be alive, you know, because I could not be here, you
know.
Yeah, you talk about being able to walk again.
That's another thing that seems to be a theme in the SEI world.
Like, was that a goal initially with rehab?
Yeah, see, what I've discovered in this is there's usually two camps in the spinal cord
world.
There are people who, and there's no wrong way I feel each camp not bashing one or the
other, but there's usually either people who are focused on walking again, you know, they
want to do everything they can to walk again.
And that's their goal.
They put everything into their rehab.
They put everything into that goal, right?
Or there's people, the camp I've fallen to is walking again was never really a goal,
but learning just to live my life as it's been given to me, you know, get more independent,
just learn to live with this disability in a world that's not accessible really in the
least, you know.
So I've always been about, you know, just these are the cards I've been dealt and I'm
going to try to push forward the best I can.
And I kind of had a different case where like when I was injured, I was so sick, you know,
there are people who are injured.
Like when I was in rehab, I don't think I went to more than like five sessions because
like I couldn't, you know, for the first five years of my injury, like it was really hard,
you know, I left rehab on a stretcher to go home.
I couldn't even sit up.
I kept passing out.
And it was, it was really hard.
Like doing an account and maybe detail some of that rehab process.
Yeah.
So when I got hurt, you know, I was taken to ICU and I was six weeks in the intensive care
unit, which is longer than most stay in for that time.
And I was on an event and they did pretty good there.
And then they shipped me to Boston Medical Center.
They used to have a spinal cord wing up there.
They don't anymore.
And when I got there, it was still, you know, I was so sick.
I was on the vent.
I couldn't sit up just getting me, you know, to raise my head up in bed was a big deal.
You know, I had a lot of blood pressure issues.
And so every time they tried to take me to therapy, I would either pass out on my therapist
or throw up on my therapist.
And it, my therapy experience was terrible, no fault to my PT, but just to how sick that
I was.
What do you think was causing that?
It was just, it was like one thing after the other, you know, tons of infections, respiratory
issues, trying to get off the ventilator.
I was on that for about four and a half months.
And it was, it was just straight up chaos.
Yeah.
And the ultimate thing that got you discharged or at like, at what point did they decide
that you were ready to go home?
They got to be in December.
So I was hurt August 9.
I left rehab on December 11.
I think it was.
And I wasn't ready to go home.
But I think they could see that being in the hospital that long was starting to take us
home and mental health.
And so they were like, we're just going to, we're going to move forward and get you sent
home.
Thankfully, I have since day one, I've had a very strong support system with my family.
And so, you know, they knew that I would be taken great care of.
And so when I went home, had a lot of home PT, but that really didn't accomplish too
much either.
I spent some time, which was helpful.
About a year or two later, I went to Shriners in Philadelphia.
They had like a six to eight week boot camp for spinal cord injured people.
I was a little healthier then.
And so that helped a good little bit, you know, just get my bearings.
Yeah.
What kind of led you to turn a corner?
I said, like, you're really sick right after, like, when did things start trending upwards?
It wasn't until about five years out.
Okay.
I was just, I was in and out of a hospital so much for those first five years.
And I had a really gnarly staff infection in 2010 ish.
It was in my hip and that almost killed me.
You know, it took a ton of surgeries to get it all cleaned out.
And it seems like after that, things just slowly started to get better.
And in the meantime, during this first five years of horrendous health issues, you know,
I never stopped pushing forward, you know, a year after my accident, I regained my license.
I started driving again.
I always just kept trying to set little goals, even though they were like, like, I always
wanted to be in a manual chair.
You know, I said, if I had two arms, I'm going to use them.
The best I can with my injury.
And so just like I'd go for pushes for the best I can, which was maybe around a parking
lot or something.
And, you know, just these little goals that for an able-bodied person seemed like nothing,
but to me, it's like climbing Mount Everest, you know?
Yeah.
And those were your goals instead of walking, instead of putting all your effort into walking.
It was getting back to being able to exist in your environment.
Yes.
Just to be able to live a somewhat normal life.
Yeah.
So you're C6?
Yes.
C6, yeah.
So for people who don't know the levels of SCI, how does that like manifest with like gross
motor and fine motor function?
Yeah.
So a lot of times people get really confused when I tell them a quadriplegic because they
can't see any movements.
You see me fidget quite a bit.
That's from my nerve pain.
We can talk about that after two, but so yeah, if I had broken my neck at like C1 or C2,
3 or 4, I would probably not have like any movement.
Maybe some shoulders or things like that.
But because I broke at C5, C6, I'm able to have biceps and biceps in both arms.
I have a tricep in my left arm, which I don't have in my right arm, and I have like real
strong wrist function.
And so that's about it.
I'm paralyzed from the chest sling down.
But yeah, so it's impairment all four limbs as a quad.
And you grip strength through the fingers?
No, I don't have any grip strength in my fingers, but you know, we can use TinoDesis,
which is a very fancy word for when you bend your wrist, your thumb, what kind of automatically
reach and it'll grasp through your pointer finger.
It's hard to hear that through a voice.
So what was like the, what were their OT and PT interventions that kind of got you that
function or is that what you had initially?
And that's just kind of.
Pretty everything is I have been the same, but just strong.
You know, I got injured with all this function that I have now.
It's nothing really, it's just the everyday life of being paralyzed.
I've done stronger.
One of the biggest, most important things that I was able to use and that helped me massively
with YouTube.
And that's why I love social media so much.
You know, because I remember, I remember after I was injured, you know, like I said, I didn't
have a really good rehab experience.
And so I would go on YouTube and I would see all these quads, my level and showing how
they lived their lives, how they get dressed, how they transfer.
And that's really what, that's really what helped me too was just, you know, just seeing
other people with my similar injury, be able to do things I didn't think were possible
of doing.
And that just, it gave me so much motivation and hope to see that, you know, there are
people out there who are taking care of themselves the best way they can and, you know, learning
how to be independent.
And that was really, that's what I call like a lot of my rehab was through YouTube, you
know, that's why I think social media is, you know, like everything, it has massive
downfalls, but it also has some really positive things out there.
Yeah.
So the remote fitness is obviously became more popular with COVID and remote rehab.
And I don't know if it's, it's definitely not an entire replacement for in person, but
like you said, like for people, there's a lot of people that don't have the means of
getting to a gym or getting to a rehab hospital.
And so it's not the importance of kind of making accessible online is pretty big.
You mentioned nerve pain, kind of how do you, maybe how do you manage that and how does
it manifest?
Oh yeah, nerve pain is like, if I had a, if I had a choice between could you walk again
and keep the nerve pain or stay with your injury and not have nerve pain, I'd be paralyzed
all day.
Yeah.
Nerve pain is for myself, it's probably the hardest thing that I have to deal with because
like 24 seven, my body is just burning constantly.
And as you can see it, when you're in person with me, you know, constantly wiggling and
just in, it's just from, that's usually from my pain, you know, and that's kind of just
one way I kind of cope with it is to stay moving.
Yeah.
Are you able to sleep through the night?
Yeah, a lot better than I used to.
Yeah.
You know, there used to be times where I'd just be awake for like two nights at a time
and that just takes a massive toll on your mental health here and physicalness.
It's just, but yeah, I mean, I've been on medicine for it, but it doesn't really do
much 17 years out.
You know, when I've come to realize is, you know, distraction is a huge thing for myself,
you know, staying active and whether that's playing a video game for a little while, just
anything to get your mind off of your pain.
Are there any surgical interventions or not?
I've heard of some things like spinal blocks and things like that, but I don't know how
well they work exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah, I wonder before your accident, did you have a career in mind and then kind of maybe
how did you get into this career that you're in now?
Yeah.
So pre-injury, you know, I grew up racing dirt bikes my whole life and, you know, when
you have a sport that you love so deeply and passionately, you want to do that for the
rest of your life, you know, so that was the goal.
I got to a decently high level of that.
And you know, in my 17 year old mind, I thought I was going to be a professional racer and
that didn't pan out obviously.
But again, going back to my rebelliousness, I dropped out of high school, 15 years old,
left school because I just, it just wasn't my thing, you know, some people say it wasn't
mine, that's for sure.
And so I got a job landscaping and I did that up until my accident.
But I had no real like career goals or really anything.
I was just kind of living day by day, you know, week by week.
And it wasn't until after my accident that, you know, as soon as I woke up in the intensive
care unit, you know, I just, I felt that this happened for a reason.
You know, I grew up in a Christian home, went to church on Sundays and all that stuff, but
it was never really real to me until my accident.
And that's when my mind started shifting.
I just, I said, you know, I just want to use this for whatever God wants for me, you know,
and I had no idea what that looked like at 17 years old laying in the intensive care
unit.
But I just, I knew I wanted to help people, high school students.
Pastoring wasn't in my mind frame yet at all.
But then after my injury, I started going to church again and I just, I wanted to serve
any way I could.
And a couple of years later, I met with people from the Johnny Erickson Tata.
I don't know if you're familiar with her, Johnian friends.
They have a foundation where they help so many disabled people do a lot of cool things.
And I met with one of their representatives and asked, what should I do?
What's my next steps?
You know, I want to do something to help people.
And they kind of pushed me in the direction of why don't you go back to school?
You know, again, hated school, left at 15 years old.
That definitely wasn't, wasn't in my plan anyways.
But I ended up going back to school.
I got my college degree.
I went for ministry and became a pastor.
Yeah.
What was that like?
Cause there was probably what seven or eight years between dropping out of high school
and going back into college.
Yeah.
That was weird.
Yeah.
I mean, I did all my classes online again, cause I was so sick and everything, but that
itself takes a lot of self discipline to do that.
Did you find college to be a much better experience though?
Cause it was something that you were passionate about.
Like sometimes high school just isn't suitable for people.
Yeah.
I think I was just lost in high school.
You know, like it just, this had more of a goal in mind.
You know, like I got to get through these years to be able to do what I want to do.
Yeah.
And so I did enjoy doing my classes.
It gave me something to focus on.
Yeah.
A different, like I realized this time around that, you know, education is pretty important.
You know, and it's a, it's a blessing to be able to, not everyone can do that.
Yeah.
I wouldn't identify as a deeply religious person.
Me and my wife and I got married in a Catholic church and I understand the importance of
that as a sacrament.
And we went to church growing up.
But do you think living like, living the way I do, I guess, or like the work that I do
and like the care that I like give towards people is that like a manifestation of religion
as opposed to just like weekly church attendance?
I mean, is there a way to be religious without going to church?
Well, I mean, that's a loaded question.
I mean, in my beliefs, you know, I believe that God designed us to, to be in fellowship
with other Christians.
Yeah.
You know, I think the work you do is, is wonderful.
I think that's a God given talent and a God given gift to have that desire to help other
people.
You know, you see that author scripture, right?
I do very much believe in the importance of church attendance.
Yeah.
And not that going to church doesn't mean you're a Christian.
Right.
You know, no more than me sitting in a garage makes me a car.
That was almost what I had a little bit of trouble with was just going to church, but
not always understanding what I was there for or what I was listening to.
Yeah.
So it didn't feel like it was adding a ton to.
And that's totally understandable.
Yeah.
You know, and I think it depends like for myself, like say high school wasn't a good fit.
You know, I didn't, I didn't get anything from it.
You know, if you're going to church and you are not leaving with something that's applicable
to your life, it's, it can feel like you just they're listening to a bunch of nonsense
sometimes.
Yeah.
What's your, what's your process for preparing a sermon?
I process it takes me about 40 hours or so to get my messages done.
And so I dive pretty deep in there, you know, but my whole motto is, you know, I'm open
the Bible, teach the Bible, and then sit down and shut up, you know, we are kind of
a no frills kind of congregation, you know, I, I keep my messages around 25 minutes and
I just go through each verse, pick it apart and get the meaning of what the original language
said and what it meant for their hearers in that time and then how it's applicable to
us today, you know, so that's, that's very important.
Yeah.
I don't know, to, uh, was it an acquired skill?
Because obviously giving a sermon's public speaking, do you feel like you've improved
a lot over the years in terms of how you deliver service?
I would definitely say so.
So again, when I was first injured, I knew I wanted to help people.
You know, I knew I figured my story had some value when it to even help my main goal at
that time was speaking to high schools and drivers that programs.
And when I got my first opportunity to go to a school and share my story, it was 2008
and get up in front of these kids, the small classroom, you know, I froze.
I didn't say a word.
I couldn't speak.
I had to leave.
It was a mess.
I left there going, well, that's not for me.
I'm done.
Yeah.
You know, and then three years later, pastor of the church out of the tending asked me if
I'd be willing to share my story.
I was like, oh, man, I can't do that.
You know, there's no way, but I just, I didn't want to say no.
So I did it.
And from that point on, you know, it's gotten easier and easier and easier.
But it all depends.
You know, I speak weekly.
I speak sometimes more weekly.
I come here today and I'm nervous here.
You know, hopefully not the nervous.
No, no, no.
You're a great host.
It's just the public speaking is nerve-racking.
Yeah.
Yeah, it always is.
I mean, in the same lens, like me preparing for these, I'm trying to play the conversation
in my head or at least think about what I want to talk about.
Like I almost didn't want to mention that religion piece because I don't have the chops
to really have a thorough conversation about it.
So it's like, what should I mention?
What should I not?
I have all these different things that go through my head, but then it's like finding
ways to articulate it within the flow of a conversation is sometimes tough.
And we do put a good amount of time into preparing for all these episodes and doing research
about the guests and stuff.
But do you consider it motivational speaking?
Or do you have thoughts on like motivation, motivational speaking as a whole?
See, I kind of separate the two from what I do at church on Sunday and then say what
I do when I go to Moni Tech and speak to the drivers at programs.
I would say that is when I speak at the high schools and whatnot, it's usually a more motivation,
but motivation to make the right choices in life.
And to not, I speak a lot about safety and making smart choices and how each choice,
but do you realize that or not affects your future?
So I feel like I give them some motivation and try to help them and guide them into realizing
that, you know, don't mess up your life so young, you know, you got a lot ahead of you.
I truly believe that, you know, you can really do whatever you want to do if you put the
time into it.
And like I always say, I'm not saying you're going to be president of the United States,
but crazier things have happened.
So maybe, maybe so.
I wonder if like, so you're, you're encouraging people to not do dangerous things that could
hurt themselves, which is obvious.
But you say like mess up their lives and in some ways your life got better after your
accident.
So not that that's the lesson that you would want to communicate to someone get a spinal
cord injury, your life might improve.
But is there ever any like friction between those messages or do you ever relay the positives
of your injury?
Oh, I definitely will relay the positives.
You know, it's, it's usually more of motivation with like an underlying, you don't, you don't
want to take the route that I took, you know, I'd rather not take the route that I took.
As you can come to grips with improving your life without the injury.
Yeah.
You know, I would have rather, you know, learned all the lessons that I learned now without
having to deal with the pain and suffering and all the heartache that comes along with
spinal cord injury.
Yeah.
Because no matter how much we try and sugarcoat it, you know, this life is hard, you know,
it's not easy.
You know, some of us may make it look easy, but there is still a lot of weight to carry
around a daily basis.
I'm a 34 year old man that does stuff during the week that no 34 year old man should have
to do, you know, or that's bathroom stuff or other stuff that comes along that you don't
see.
You know, so I try to motivate these kids, but just motivate them to make smart choices
in their life, especially when they get behind the wheel.
Yeah.
I remember I first got my license.
I was wild, you know, and it's just, it's not worth it.
Yeah.
We typically ask some of our guests with disabilities of like their thoughts on the inspiration
narrative.
Like, do you ever get people that say that you're inspirational and kind of what emotions
does that evoke or like, oh man, I get that all the time.
I can't go to the grocery store.
Someone thinking never say anything.
I get a box of Cheerios off the shelves.
But in some ways, there are people who get really offended by it, you know, and I totally
understand that.
And in a lot of ways, I feel the same, you know, I mean, we're just living our lives.
We're not here to be an inspiration for you unless it's in the setting of same motivational
speech or something like that.
But I get that all the time.
But I do know that a lot of people say that, like in the grocery store or at church or
anywhere, you know, a lot of them, it comes from a good place.
Yeah, it's always well intentioned.
It's well intentioned a lot of times, even though there are times where it's kind of
offensive.
Yeah.
Right.
So I try to give them grace, you know, because like, if you don't live this life, if you're
not in the field, say you're in and they don't really know.
Yeah.
It's like they don't even know what else to say.
Like they don't even know how to start a conversation.
Yeah.
For some reason, I'm not sure what that reason is, but yeah, it's just, there's a lot of
people who I just don't think know how to handle when they see someone so different
from themselves.
Yeah.
You know, it's like they look at myself or people like me and it's like, they're just
so I don't like to say, but it's true weirded out by it in a sense.
Yeah.
You know, they just, they don't know how to act.
Yeah, so when we think of like what has to be done to make gyms more inclusive and accessible
or really any business or environment, it's kind of like normalizing the inclusion of
people with disabilities and just not to like see beyond the wheelchair, not to ignore the
fact that you have a disability, but just to view it, I guess maybe as another characteristic
of yourself as an individual.
Yeah.
I mean, I agree with that as well.
I mean, because it's like, and then there's a whole other, if you go to the whole other
end and there are people who are like, well, I don't even see your disability.
And at the same time, that's not entirely correct to say either, you know, because when
you, when you go to that far, then you're like just dismissing the struggle, the ableism,
the lack of accessibility we face every day.
So there's like a balance there.
Just in my opinion, just I'm John treat me that way.
Yeah.
You know, and, but it's again, I don't fault a lot of people like some people, some people
might know, because like, I maybe might not know what to say to someone in this position
if I wasn't in this myself, you know,
Yeah.
Maybe kind of expanding on that point, we can talk a little bit about etiquette.
How do you feel about the term disabled versus maybe some of the more politically correct
quote unquote terms like differently able?
Yeah.
Again, there's different camps for that as well.
But a lot of myself and most everyone that I'm in contact with in the disability community
who has a disability, what I've discovered is nine times out of 10, they want to be called
disabled.
Yeah.
You know, because like you use terms like differently able or things of that nature,
it can often feel like you're trying to minimize the disability aspect and you're trying to
make you're trying to make disabled less offensive in your mind.
That's how I feel.
Anyways, like we're disabled and there's nothing wrong with that.
You know, we don't have to call it other names to make yourselves more comfortable.
You know,
Yeah, I almost I've read I've read about it as almost a strategy for someone without
a disability, like you said, to just feel more comfortable or like feel better about
themselves for using this different phrase.
But there's some people whose entire model of inclusion revolves around person first
language or terms like differently abled and in some ways, but then I see the disability
community that's like, Oh, no, we hate those things.
So it's like, so it's tough to relay.
So if I'm teaching a new personal trainer, a new fitness professional, how to work with
someone with a disability, there's so many nuances.
It's tough to make blanket statements like this is how you communicate with someone with
a disability.
What kind of what advice would you give?
So if you if you went into a gym for the first time and you were about you were ready to
work with a personal trainer, what would you want them to ask you or how would you want
to be treated?
So I put myself in that scenario.
I come into your gym, right, and I would obviously this goes by saying want to be treated just
like any other member that comes in.
And I think the worst thing that a person can do is assume, right?
If say a trainer comes up to myself and just grabs my chair, you know, and starts helping
without asking first, you know, I understand that their heart is probably in the right
place, you know, because they see someone that might look like they need help.
But you always got to ask first, right?
Like, hey, my name is, I don't know what this trainer's name was trainer Todd.
Okay.
Trainer Todd comes up to me and says, Hey, my name's Todd.
And I want to introduce myself and, you know, you start a conversation like a normal person
would.
And then I would want that person to say, I don't want to assume that you need help.
But if there is anything I can do to make your time here more accessible and I can be
of any assistance, please don't be afraid to ask.
Yeah.
So it's assuming it's assuming competency and then having just an open line of communication
with what needs, it will support so they need.
I think most people can tell when someone's being genuine, you know, I think that goes
a long way.
Like not everyone's going to be able to work things perfectly.
You know, I might, I might be offended by different labels and then you might get to
other people who prefer to be called differently abled or something like that.
So I think, I think we can, I think we're pretty smart at seeing genuineness, you know,
like this person just wants to help.
Yeah.
No, but definitely my biggest thing is not to assume you need help, you know, just, just
ask and be respectful about it.
Yeah.
What type of questions are kind of off limits and what questions do you not mind being
asked?
Myself, you can ask me anything.
No, but I know there are people who are more easily, I guess you might want to get you
to offended who don't really just even want to be bothered when they come into a place.
I just, again, I think the most appropriate thing to do for a physical therapist would
be like, is if there is any way that I can help you, you know, please just communicate
with me what you need and I'll help you.
What are your needs?
You know, and how can I better help you get done what you need done?
And that's why we like, we try to demystify is not the word, but we try to lower the perceived
barrier of entry for fitness professionals to like more inclusive options.
Because I think sometimes people think it's like a highly complex, you need all of this
advanced schooling, you need all this advanced equipment.
When in reality, I would hope that every gym finds ways to be more accessible, just like
we call like incremental universal design, just like slowly making changes that improve
the accessibility of something.
But oftentimes, like you said, it's just like the genuineness of the staff and the conversations
they're willing to have with people, understanding your unique needs in the same way that we're
trying to understand our neurotypical adults unique needs or our high school and collegiate
athletes unique needs.
It's, I guess the presence of a disability just becomes another thing to consider when
writing a workout.
But because if you think about it, like if you go up to an able-bodied person, you ask
them what they need help for.
And it's really just the same thing.
You know, you're there to help that person, whether they have a disability or not, you
know, just try not to assume that they, you know, need certain things that and a lot of
times for myself, what drives me nuts and happens so often is like when people talk
to us like we're children, that happens a lot.
You know, and so it's just about being respectful of treating that disabled person really no
different than you would treat an able-bodied member in the gym.
But at the same time, you know, just ask with respect and genuineness, like, how can I help
you, you know, if you need help?
You know, what do you think needs to be changed as a question we usually ask people towards
the end of the conversations?
Like, what do you think needs to be changed to make gyms or the fitness industry as a whole
more inclusive and accessible?
And again, it depends.
You know, I mean, I think just like today, you know, like how you guys have the buttons
outside, the flat entrance, you know, it's so easy for me to get into, right?
A lot of gyms and places don't have that.
You know, they have doors that are like, I couldn't even open on my own if I tried to.
And again, no place is perfectly accessible, right?
There's going to be a learning curve and there's going to be, like you said, incremental changes,
right?
But I think for fitness professionals, you know, listen to the disabled community, you
know, and really try to hear how you can help their individual needs.
You know, try to make things more accessible, try to keep in mind the space between equipment
for wheelchair users and even just the level of certain equipment things and stuff like
that, you know?
Yeah, that's why we wanted to trim some portions of this conversation to include in the content
that we teach because I've always liked your approach to etiquette that you put out on
social media.
So we'll plug that your Instagram handle, it's the Wheelie Life Official.
The Wheel Life Official.
And what's that platform been like for you in terms of like growing it and why'd you
start it?
It's been great.
Like I said, you know, social media has always played a big role in my life starting with
YouTube stuff and seeing how much they helped me.
And you know, I kind of just started that Instagram on a whim because I was bored one
day and I just wanted to be able to, I wanted to be able to share my real feelings about
this facility and not have to filter myself.
And I just wanted to share the things I've learned and hopefully help some other newly
injured patient or person who's been hurt 20 years and just needs some encouragement,
you know?
And so I started that one day and I just try to put out content that's real, you know,
that's directed at people like myself, you know, but at the same time, someone who's
an able-bodied fitness instructor like yourself can read a thing.
Oh, okay, that makes sense.
I'm going to try to implement that and learn from that, you know?
Do you plan out content or do you usually just like identify a problem or something
that happened in your life and think to yourself like, oh, I should share that?
When I really started growing and things were kind of happening and I was getting, you know,
I don't have a massive following or anything, but like a little bit, like I really was super
diligent, you know?
I did, like I had certain days I would record my reels and then certain times I would talk
about disability history and I would schedule those posts in advance.
But as we've kind of gone with everything, sometimes it's planned out a week in advance.
Sometimes I just wake up in the morning and something strikes me like, you know what,
I'm going to talk about that.
I'm going to rant about this a little bit and we'll make a post about it.
Can you maybe plug some products or businesses that you're familiar with that are either
making like good products for people with disabilities or doing something?
I got a lot of really good, cool thing about the disability community is it's kind of
tight knit, even though we've really all lived across like the country from each other.
Some of my closest friends, they're like so brilliant, you know, you've probably seen
abilities on Instagram.
So that's ability and then the word ease, right?
Yeah, that's ability.
Ability.
Yeah, we can plug them.
Yeah, no, he's great.
And he just, I don't know where his mind goes, but he just comes up with the coolest 3D printed
stuff to make life easier for us.
And it's pretty cool.
You know, there are people who at the same time don't like using adaptive equipment and
that's fine too.
And at the beginning of my injury, I hated it.
I didn't want to be any different from anyone else, but as I've grown as a person and more
comfortable with my disability, I just want to use anything that helps me.
Yeah, that's probably, yeah, that's an interesting topic because I have a client post stroke who
seems to adopt that perspective where he doesn't want to use adaptive things.
And I'm like, well, if it helps you do what you want to do, then it might be useful in
the same way that I have to wear glasses to see and someone that's to wear a hearing aid
to hear like sometimes the adaptive technologies just allows you to do what you want to do.
But yeah, no, that's great.
And I'm glad all those resources exist.
And I hope that I can have conversations with people like that and share those, share what
they're doing and share their experiences and what they've learned.
Like I said, I mean, it's tough to put myself in a position of like teaching the course that
I teach because I don't want to speak on your behalf or I don't want to speak on the community's
behalf as a whole.
But I recognize that I might be in a position to bring some of this content to people.
So it would be foolish for me to not at least do my best.
And hopefully, if we make mistakes or suggest something that's not important that people
have the grace to just see that it's always well-intentioned.
So, but that's why these podcast recordings have been great because it allows me to just
have transparent conversations and kind of work on the edges and work within the nuance
of disability.
And hopefully the people that take my course will also listen to these because they're great
supplements for the more like exercise science related stuff that we teach.
But I think you guys are doing one of the most important things.
It's giving disabled people, you know, a platform to share.
Because they might not go after or they might not find someone like you unless it's through
someone like that's already in the fitness space.
So hopefully we can kind of be that segue to introduce them to people that can speak
on a lift experience better.
But John, it was a pleasure.
I really appreciate you coming out from orange to Lancaster talking with us today.
It's my pleasure.
Thank you for letting me rant for a while.
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