1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:28,020 Howdy, welcome back. It's me, your host, Alex Hopper, and I'd like to welcome you back 2 00:00:28,020 --> 00:00:33,720 to Policies, Problems, and Progress. Boy, ladies and gentlemen, do we have a show for 3 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:39,800 you today. I'd like to go ahead and apologize for my voice. I am currently fighting some 4 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:45,360 bronchitis after being in the hospital for four weeks after breaking my knee into six 5 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:51,840 pieces and undergoing surgery to put them all back onto my tibia. So it's just been 6 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:57,580 a great month for me, but the show must go on, so I'm happy to be back here with y'all. 7 00:00:57,580 --> 00:01:02,640 So if I sound nasally or scratchy throughout this episode, you'll have to forgive me. Now 8 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:09,560 I promise that this show is not always about war. It just so happens that we have had two 9 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:16,600 sets of American interventionism in the last recent memory, both being Ukraine, which was 10 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:22,600 covered in the last episode, and this episode, which is Israel. Now for those of you who 11 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:27,440 have listened to the show before, you know that we cover both sides of every argument, 12 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:33,080 and we try to meet in the middle where we can or see one side in a different way. However, 13 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:38,840 this is going to be different. We will be strictly talking about the two sides of whether 14 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:44,720 America should be involved or not. We will not even for a second theorize if any action 15 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:50,400 of terrorism against women, children, and other civilians is ever okay because it is 16 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:57,200 not. Anyone advocating, approving, or supporting this is a shameful person who has no spine 17 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:03,760 or empathy for any other human being. Slaughtering of children and civilians is always wrong, 18 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:10,440 horrible, and awful and should never be approved in any form whatsoever. And we will not be 19 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:16,560 doing that on this show. That being said, there is still a conversation to be had about 20 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:23,680 our role in this as Americans, or at least as our government and industrial war complex. 21 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:29,000 And that is what we're going to be covering. The people who say that we should be intervening, 22 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:33,880 and the people who are saying that we should not. No one on this show is ever going to 23 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:40,080 be allowed to speak about supporting the deaths and torture of civilians. I have to make that 24 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:46,720 very clear because for some reason in mainstream media that got really popular, which is extremely 25 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:52,280 shameful. Now normally this is where I would go into the arguments, but due to the nature 26 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:58,360 of this conflict, I feel that some amount of a history lesson is due, so please bear 27 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:03,480 with me. I'm a history buff and can rant sometimes, but I'm going to do my best to get you just 28 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:08,720 the need to know knowledge right now. Now, the Middle East has been home to conflict 29 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:14,320 since the beginning of time. If we were to take the time to speak about every single 30 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:20,200 conflict that happened in the Middle East, this show would be so long that my computer 31 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:26,660 would not be able to store it. And it currently has 205 hours of free disk space. So we're 32 00:03:26,660 --> 00:03:35,600 going to go to quote unquote recent memory beginning in 1516. Now in 1516, the Ottoman 33 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:41,600 Empire seized control over most of the Middle East, including Jerusalem. And they held onto 34 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:48,600 it until 1917, except for a nine year period whenever Egyptian governor Muhammad Ali seized 35 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:55,720 control over Palestine, but it was lost again to the Ottomans in 1840. Now in 1917, whenever 36 00:03:55,720 --> 00:04:01,720 the Ottoman Empire was destroyed, Jerusalem was seized by the British. And in 1922, there 37 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:07,860 was an international mandate that made Britain the minister of the area in the Middle East. 38 00:04:07,860 --> 00:04:14,680 Now this mandate lasted until May 14th, 1948. And whenever it expired, David Ben-Gurion, 39 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:20,360 the head of the Jewish Agency established what we know today as modern Israel, which 40 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:27,920 was recognized by the US president, Harry S. Truman, and was made a new nation the exact 41 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:35,520 same day. Unfortunately, this led to the 1948 Arab Israeli war, which was fought between 42 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:41,040 the Arabs and the Israelis for control of the region. Now after this conflict, Israel 43 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:45,880 gained some territory and Egypt was given the Gaza Strip while Jordan was given the 44 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:53,000 West Bank. And these lines were held until 1967. However, in 1967, there was the Six 45 00:04:53,000 --> 00:05:00,640 Day War whenever Israel defeated Egypt, Jordan, and Syria and came to occupy the Sinai Peninsula, 46 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:06,800 the Gaza Strip, the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and the Golan Heights. Throughout this conflict, 47 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:12,960 funny enough, the US called for a ceasefire trying to prevent Soviet intervention in the 48 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:18,600 area. As the Wilson Center put it, the war transformed Israel from a nation that perceived 49 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:25,640 itself as fighting for survival into an occupier and regional powerhouse. And since then, there 50 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:31,800 have been many more conflicts in the region between the Palestinians and the Israelis. 51 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:36,720 Even outside the region, the most famous one that comes to mind is the Munich Massacre, 52 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:43,600 where during the 1972 Summer Olympics in Munich, West Germany, Palestinian terrorists killed 53 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:51,960 Israeli Olympians and took hostages in the city. And that brings us almost to today. 54 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:56,640 Like I said, there are so many more conflicts that went on in the area, but those were the 55 00:05:56,640 --> 00:06:03,640 founding wars that led us to the repeated border conflict that we have today in the 56 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:09,400 region. So we'll start with the people who want the US to intervene in Israel. And they 57 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:18,240 are really in two camps. One is purely political and humanitarian, and the other is theological 58 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:23,080 extremism. There are a few times on this show where we're going to get into theology, because 59 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:29,000 normally whenever you talk about the Bible and people who follow the Bible, even if they 60 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:36,400 are in different sects of Christianity, they usually stand on the same side of a problem. 61 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:41,360 And you don't have to go deep into theology to see why two different groups stand on two 62 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:48,780 different sides of it. But this one is different. For those of you who have never heard of premillennialism, 63 00:06:48,780 --> 00:06:53,880 there are Christians in this country who believe that Jesus will come back and establish a 64 00:06:53,880 --> 00:07:00,680 kingdom on earth and reign for a thousand years where everyone who is a good Christian 65 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:06,080 will be raptured, but those who weren't are left behind to fight in the war between God 66 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:12,960 and Satan. So they believe that establishing the Holy Land, building the temple, and protecting 67 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:20,720 it until God gets here is very important and demand that we keep an ally ship with Israel 68 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:27,200 in this country and do everything we can to protect them. These beliefs come from whenever 69 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:35,000 Paul had to write certain letters to different churches in code while he was in prison by 70 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:40,860 the Romans, because the guards read his letters every time they came through. So he had to 71 00:07:40,860 --> 00:07:46,640 write things such as buzzwords you've probably heard before, such as the anti-Christ and 72 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:53,040 other things like that. So people have taken this and deduced that Jesus is coming back 73 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:57,640 and we have to protect the Holy Land for God because God isn't able to. But I'm not going 74 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:02,840 to argue here or there on that. I'm just going to tell you what I believe on this because 75 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:09,360 I happen to be a Christian, but I also happen to study a bit more and be able to see where 76 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:15,560 things are aligned with history. The time that Jesus referenced whenever he died, as 77 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:21,720 well as Paul spoke about in his letters in code, was whenever Nero was taking over the 78 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:28,360 Roman Empire and had a crusade against Christians and was killing them in mass. This was the 79 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:35,720 anti-Christ. As a matter of fact, the temple at Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD by a power 80 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:42,880 vacuum that was left after Nero died. But many modern Christian apocalypse cults, because 81 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:48,480 there's no other word for it, believe that every time that there is a conflict in Israel, 82 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:53,800 that we are days away from rapture, that all-out war is about to break out, God's going to 83 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:59,200 come back, but God can't protect Israel by himself so we need to do it. The problem is 84 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:07,600 that there have been wars in Israel forever and Israel already fell many millennia ago. 85 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:14,320 And what we know as Israel today was only established in 1948. But since this is a theological 86 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:19,680 approach, it deserves a theological response, which is the only reason I have gotten into 87 00:09:19,680 --> 00:09:24,700 the weeds on this. The more I speak, the more I feel the weeds brushing past me. Because 88 00:09:24,700 --> 00:09:30,020 whenever people speak with theological reasons for doing things like this, there really is 89 00:09:30,020 --> 00:09:37,400 no other way than debating it with theology. Also, I don't normally immediately dispute 90 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:43,760 a viewpoint. I usually wait until the other side. But I would like to try to keep all 91 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:48,720 this theology stuff in one spot, for those of you who would rather skip it, and also 92 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:54,480 so I don't have to deal with all of this again later. So, you're welcome. That's that done. 93 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:59,160 We're not going to talk about it again. Here's something a bit more concrete. Humanitarianism 94 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:06,000 and politics. It's always a fun thing to talk about, at least in comparison to before. It's 95 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:10,840 simple enough. There are people who believe that whenever something is going wrong in 96 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:15,800 the world, that the United States has a responsibility to be at the beck and call. From anywhere 97 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:21,440 throughout the Middle East, to Europe, to Vietnam, we have to be there on the spot, 98 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:27,400 ready to deal with all the world's problems. As facetious as I made that sound, it is a 99 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:34,560 noble thing, in theory. A belief of responsibility to do good in the world and try to protect 100 00:10:34,560 --> 00:10:41,920 as well as be that force of good in the world is a great thing and has motivated a lot of 101 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:46,560 good things. And then there are those who believe we simply have a responsibility to 102 00:10:46,560 --> 00:10:51,920 be there, since Israel is a listed ally of this country. And whenever our allies are 103 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:58,120 invaded, we have to be there to defend them. Both of these viewpoints are simple enough. 104 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:04,440 And the last one that I forgot to mention earlier is the belief that it's going to come 105 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:10,200 here. There's always this belief whenever anything happens around the world, from Vietnam 106 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:15,080 to the Middle East, is if we don't go and stop it there, it will come here. That has 107 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:22,280 been very prevalent since 9/11 due to people believing that that was us not doing enough. 108 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:27,360 And I'm not going to get into the political debate about why 9/11 happened to this country, 109 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:32,540 but it is reasonable for these people who have witnessed 9/11, as well as other tragedies 110 00:11:32,540 --> 00:11:37,800 that have been driven here by conflict, to want to end them there before they become 111 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:41,320 any sort of threat on the homeland here at home. 112 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:49,080 Time for two rebuttals and a third viewpoint on why we shouldn't invade that I don't agree 113 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:54,740 with, but we're going to have to talk about. It's such a complicated issue that you can't 114 00:11:54,740 --> 00:12:01,400 just have one side, because I believe we shouldn't be fighting over there, but there are people 115 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:05,680 who I don't agree with on why we shouldn't be fighting over there. 116 00:12:05,680 --> 00:12:12,800 So as far as humanitarianism and politics go, I don't believe that any good for any 117 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:18,880 humanitarian can come from American intervention. It's going to be bloody, it's going to be 118 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:24,000 awful and it will cripple any economy that's involved. Whenever we already have so many 119 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:28,680 problems we're dealing with in this country, as well as a depleted arsenal because we have 120 00:12:28,680 --> 00:12:34,520 sent everything we have to Ukraine to where we are struggling to get enough tax dollars 121 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:42,640 to replenish our own arms and our own military. The only people that a humanitarian aid effort 122 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:48,760 are going to be helping is the military industrial complex in this country and making them richer 123 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:53,800 and diverting more tax dollars towards them while the rest of us become poorer and poorer 124 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:58,500 through the inflation from the government printing money for these companies. 125 00:12:58,500 --> 00:13:05,240 As far as the politics goes, we should never be in any position to put America at risk 126 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:12,200 financially, economically, or even as far as our own safety. If we have made agreements 127 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:18,240 in the past that we have to uphold that would put us in that position, we have to back out. 128 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:24,880 Simple as. We cannot help people if we are broken. You cannot pour from an empty pitcher. 129 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:31,560 So we have to keep ourselves strong so that maybe someday we can help somebody else, but 130 00:13:31,560 --> 00:13:37,560 we're not in that position right now. And the third viewpoint, which I do not share, 131 00:13:37,560 --> 00:13:46,000 is this idea that Palestine needs to be allowed to drive out, quote unquote, all the Israelis 132 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:54,640 from Israel, which is basically up to this point been terrorism, mass genocide, murder 133 00:13:54,640 --> 00:14:03,080 of children and women, which is horrible. But there is, if not, a ounce of truth where 134 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:08,720 Palestinian people have been misplaced, if not by the fault of the Israelis, of the British, 135 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:15,680 who are notorious for drawing lines in countries they take over that later cause race wars. 136 00:14:15,680 --> 00:14:20,240 Just look at Ireland and Northern Ireland, for example, where there is still an apartheid 137 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:27,040 today. There should be peace and people should be free. But the murder of innocent people, 138 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:32,720 civilians and children is not the way to achieve something like that. I believe everyone should 139 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:38,840 be free. I'll give them that. But I do not believe in anyone who is doing what they are 140 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:45,200 doing right now is doing it for freedom. They are doing it to satisfy their blood lust. 141 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:50,400 And it is a shameful thing to see. And then for my opinion, my opinion is basically the 142 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:56,200 response to the humanitarian aid and the political aid. And also just the fact that any point 143 00:14:56,200 --> 00:15:03,360 in history past World War II, where America has been involved in other people's conflicts 144 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:10,920 that has not gone well, Vietnam, Korea, Afghanistan. I mean, the Middle East has been at war since 145 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:16,480 the beginning. Just look at whenever the Russians invaded them in 1978 and all that fun that 146 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:23,720 was had there. It's all just too much. And we cannot effectively help anybody. American 147 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:30,000 interventionalism only brings more suffering, more division and more pain to these countries. 148 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:37,840 We just make it worse and make the explosives a whole lot larger. I want peace. I want freedom. 149 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:44,680 I want innocent life to be protected. But in all of this, there seems to not be a middle 150 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:50,040 ground. And that is rare for anything. Normally you can find a middle ground, but in this 151 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:57,640 conflict there is not. One side wants blood and the other wants their land. And it's going 152 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:01,880 to be an awful thing to watch happen. And we should play no role in anything coming 153 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:09,280 from this. Now this is a shorter episode, but this is only a recent conflict. I'm sure 154 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:14,800 I'll be covering it again in the future whenever it grows worse and worse and more politicians 155 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:19,280 come out with more reasons why we should or shouldn't be over there. But all I can say 156 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:25,400 is to all of you is keep yourself safe. Don't murder innocent people. And for the love of 157 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:31,000 God, love who you got while you got. Because if this shows anything in the day that all 158 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:35,800 of this turned into hell, you never know what tomorrow is going to be like. Today can be 159 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:41,400 peace and tomorrow can be war. And that is the unfortunate, horrible world that we live 160 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:46,280 in. But take advantage today of the peace that you have because you may not always have 161 00:16:46,280 --> 00:17:01,360 it. Love all you. Remember, turn off the gas stove before you go to bed. Good night. 162 00:17:01,360 --> 00:18:08,600 Algid Productions LLC Outro. Thank you for listening!