Welcome to The Vegan Report. My name is Ryan
and today I want to put on your map a few of
my favorite vegan podcasters. Let me name them
and read their podcast description. Victoria
Moran is host of the Main Street Vegan Podcast.
On her show, this best -selling author and vegan
OG invites you into conversations with the best
and brightest in the space of veganism and animal
rights. I welcomed Victoria on my show for a
special episode called Feeding the Vegan Soul.
Jane Willis Mitchell is the founder and content
editor of Unchained TV, a free global streaming
network focused on the plant -based lifestyle.
Unchained TV offers documentaries, cooking shows,
talk shows and more, all aimed at benefiting
animals, people and the planet. You can also
access her content on the Truth Files podcast.
Hope Bohanek is the host of the Hope for the
Animals podcast. She is a longtime animal advocate
and author who covers farmed animal issues, the
ethical, environmental, spiritual, heartbreaking
and heartwarming sides of living vegan. Glenn
Merzer is the host of The Glenn Merzer Show.
He's the author of books advocating the plant
exclusive diet, hosts free willing discussions
on nutrition, health, diet, medicine, whatever
else of interest comes up. Glenn welcomed me
on his show for a special episode on Buddhism
and veganism. Anita Robinson is the host of The
Kindness Is Everything podcast. This podcast
features stories of people of all ages sharing
their amazing acts of kindness. Each episode
is truly inspiring, reminding us that there is
no act of kindness that is too small for the
person or animal receiving it. Anita also welcomed
me on her show to discuss the vegan report. We
discussed the complicity of mainstream media
in supporting animal exploitation. everyone's
favorite guests, important yet under the radar
stories that deserve your attention, why most
vegan podcasts don't last long, and so much more.
Check out the episode notes to find links to
their show, share this episode with the vegans
you know, leave a five -star review, and follow
the show for more original content. Thank you.
Welcome, everyone. Thank you so much for having
accepted my invitation. I guess as an icebreaker
question, I like to ask, you know, in group conversation
settings, my guests about their vegan hero. I
think it's a great way to get to know a guest.
So who is your vegan hero and why? Ingrid Newkirk.
She never stops. Now she's officially a senior
citizen, but she's going 100 miles an hour, that
woman, and she has a great sense of humor with
everything she's seen, the horrors that she's
witnessed, and she created the most successful
animal rights group in the world. Thank you,
Jane. Victoria? Jane is, my God, one herself.
I'm going to say the late Jay Dinshaw, because
he always believed in me. And in the early days,
I was slipping and sliding around with veganism,
but he and his wife, Preah, still very much alive
at the American Vegan Society, always saw me
as vegan. And so I had to grow into what they
saw. Thank you, Hope. So two of my heroes are
here. Victoria Moran and Jane Velez Mitchell.
I mean, they're just like long time amazing activists
that been doing this work for decades. So I appreciate
them. And I think I'll say that the unsung heroes
of people that are vegan and are dedicated and
are doing grassroots work, but are never talked
about and no one knows their names. Those are
really my heroes. Thank you. Yeah, I can go.
Yeah, so my vegan hero would be actually my daughter.
She became vegan when she was 16 and the rest
of us were all vegetarian still. So at 16, she
was, you know, making her own meals. And I think
the reason she's my hero is I'm vegan because
she got me to watch Cowspiracy, and she does,
and the way she does it is in a very gentle way.
She's not judgmental. There's never any kind
of... Because I think some vegans, and I'm probably
one myself, is... I don't mean to be judgmental
about people who are vegan, but sometimes it
does come across, but she's not that way. She's
super gentle about it. She does her own thing,
and I think... Yeah, she just sets a beautiful
example. And yeah, so she's my hero. Thank you,
Anita. Finally, Glenn. Yes. Well, my friend Howard
Lyman, who today is I think about 86 years old,
he was a fourth generation cattle rancher and
had a feedlot in Montana. And he was raising
animals in the modern way that he was taught
to do in ag school using pesticides, got a tumor
in his spine. And it was dawning on him that
everything he was doing was wrong. And he. He
had the guts to stop doing what he was doing
and then to speak out about it and eventually
became a. a vegan and an animal rights activist.
Oh, and so he and I together wrote the book Mad
Cowboy, and he's the one who brought me into
this movement. And can I just add on to that?
It seems like everybody who mentioned somebody,
there's somebody tied to it. So one of my heroes
was the agent for your book and several of mine
and maybe some of the others who are here, and
that's Patty Brightman. She was the voted New
York magazine's most jaded New Yorker back in
the early eighties and then a manuscript for
a book called Fit for Life came across her desk
at Warner Books and it wasn't 100 % vegan but
it was enough to both become a dazzling bestseller
and inspire Patty to be vegan, move to California
where they grow the fruit and eventually become
literary agent to all kinds of vegans. You also,
when Hope was speaking, she reminded me of Wayne
Shung, who is to me just hero of the moment,
so brave, so willing to go where angels fear
to tread. And then Anita, he reminded me of my
own daughter, who's been vegan from birth. And
it's that same thing of, you know, they just,
they don't push it. and yet they just kind of
radiate it. And I'm very proud to say that my
daughter works as a stunt performer and aerialist.
So, you know, good to know she's doing it on
plants. Yes, Jane. I would like to say there's
a six degrees of separation here that I see.
You mentioned Jay Dinshaw, who is considered
the founder of the vegan movement in the United
States by many. And he inspired Howard Lyman
in moments where he had to go on the national
stage. And Howard Lyman, of course, went on Oprah.
And he and Glenn created that book. I interviewed
them. And afterwards, Howard Lyman confronted
me, then a vegetarian, about eating dairy. And
I went vegan, thanks to Howard Lyman saying liquid
meat. right at my nose, along with his publicist,
Mark Nealon. So right there, you see the whole,
like the connection, how every person influences
another person. And that's why each person we
reach is so important. I've set up a goal for
myself for 2026, reach thousands and really look
at everything I do to see how many people it
reaches. But also, sometimes if you reach one,
If you reach Jane Velez Mitchell, that's big.
I did one of those ones. I'll just brag on myself
for a second. Years and years ago, I'm sitting
in my little house in Kansas City, the phone
rings and it's this young man who says, I'm a
student at Grinnell College. Okay. And I read
an article you wrote about veganism that was
in my college library and now I'm vegan. Okay.
My name is Bruce Friedrich. Amazing. What happened
between then and now? That's incredible And it's
a great segue to my next question, which is Why
are you doing this podcast this media, you know?
Enterprise initiative. Why is it so important?
Jane there's 8 .3 billion humans on the planet
and we do not have time to talk to each one individually
and The clock is ticking. I just finished a documentary
for our plant -based streaming network, Unchained
TV, that's going to debut at LA Climate Week
here in Los Angeles in April, 2026. And it talks
about we are really either at the point of no
return or approaching the point of no return.
The UN has already admitted we're bashing through
the 1 .5 degrees Celsius. goal and the planet
obviously is showing signs of increased stress.
Our house is on fire. We do not have the time
to have leisurely conversations individually
with 8 .3 billion humans. And the more people
study human behavior, what most influences people
is what their friends, neighbors, and relatives
are doing. So we have to create this web of veganism
across the planet. And it is happening. There's
a war on veganism right now. The meat industry
has a multi -million dollar campaign to associate
veganism and particularly meat alternatives with
hyper -processed, ultra -processed, and it's
all garbage. And the media, unfortunately, is
jumping in with both feet to write hit pieces.
That's why a dear friend of mine had started
something called Veg Media Watch. Go to vegmediawatch
.org and sign up to be a Rapid Response Team
member. Because having been a journalist for
more than 30 years, I can tell you reporters
don't like to be called out in public. But we
have to call out these hit pieces. They are just
the other day, somebody did a hit piece saying
nobody wants to be vegan anymore. It seems like
nobody wants to be vegan anymore. I had just
come back from Expo West where there were so
many vegan products. We couldn't even get to
them all. So I wrote a story on Unchained TV
and said why all your magazines. hit piece on
veganism really hurt and then I embedded the
video showing all these fantastic vegan products
that are very successful. We have to fight back.
And podcast is one way. And that article even
said people don't want vegan beauty products
anymore. I know a lot of people have been brainwashed
on that and the health stuff and they're having
beef tallow and Lord knows what. But when you
say you don't want a vegan body care item, you're
saying, I want something that tortures an animal.
Most people, when they eat animal products, they
don't think that far. But with the beauty products,
that's as far as you can go. And that says something
pretty scary about our national and global character.
It's the media making that up. It's not true.
That's what I'm saying. It could become a self
-fulfilling prophecy if we repeat it. So I urge
people, do not do stories like, is veganism dying
or? No. We have to call these people to account.
Some of them are actually, I think, Quite possibly
being literally paid by the meat industry. Certainly
social media influencers are. The Guardian has
a great article about how they have something
called Masters in Beef Advocacy. But I urge everybody
just go to vegmediawatch .org and hit them where
it hurts. Call them to account. Yes, I interviewed
Tony, the founder of Veg Media Watch, and I love
his initiative. It's genius. Anita, I saw you.
wanting to intervene. Well, intervene. I don't
want to intervene. No, when you just said what
I think the question was, why do we have this
podcast? So mine isn't strictly a vegan podcast
because mine's called kindness is everything.
So I share stories of people who are being kind
to animals, the environment and people. And a
lot of them are, of course, vegans, animal advocates.
But the reason I did it was because there's so
many bad things happening in the world, and we
have to know about all of those. But I was getting
in -dated, and it was just taking me to a very
dark place because it was just too much of the
bad news. And I wanted to counter it with people
who are actually hearing about these injustices
and making a difference to inspire others to
hopefully want to to join that. And one other
reason, you know, to speaking to to what you
were talking about, you know, repeating the issue
about what is happening. I heard that people
need to hear something six times, I think, in
order to sort of absorb it or take it in. And
so, you know, I'll often have guests who are
who are vegan or who are promoting veganism,
promoting, you know, trying not trying to stop
animal cruelty. And I feel that folks need to
hear that because you know that because of the
way society is and because of the way business
is when we go to the grocery store and everything
is so clean right you go to the you go and you
you pick up that that meat section is all very
clean and you don't really see the suffering
that created that piece of meat and the value
of it, it's so underpriced because of all the
subsidies and everything, so it's not really
reflecting the true cost. I try to raise that
point over and over again because I know there
are people who I have as friends and family who
say they love animals, they mean it, but there's
some kind of dichotomy about what animal it is
that they love and because farm animals, the
way they're killed. They don't want to talk about
that. I think it's really important to keep bringing
it up because I'm hoping that people will hear
it over and over again and eventually will understand
that they do have options, that there is a being
in there, a sentient being. You know, like, why
do we love some, wear some, eat some, like that
kind of thing. And I really want to, I'm hoping
that saying that over and over again, you know,
it'll, it'll hit home one day. Thank you, Anita.
I'll go next. Uh, that's all right. Um, so this
is Hope Bohannic and, uh, my podcast is the hope
for the animals podcast. And I, it was during
the pandemic. If someone had told me 95 % of
what you do is meeting people in person, I really
didn't know that. I didn't think about it that
way, the activism that I did. I would go to this
VegFest and speak, and then I was organizing
another VegFest, and then I was going to this
event to give a presentation and tabling at some
other event. And so I was very community -oriented
and in -person oriented, and the pandemic hit.
And I was suddenly sitting on my couch like,
well, what do I do? How can I? The animals are
still suffering. I don't want to just sit here.
I have to do something to continue this work.
And here I was, you know, kind of an, I would
say an old dog, not very technical, not very
technical, you know, having any technical knowledge.
And I loved podcasts. Like, I listened to a ton
of podcasts back then. I think I'd listened to
Victoria's podcast, probably Jane's. I loved
podcasts back then. And I thought, well, huh,
maybe I could start a podcast and, you know,
have the time. And thank goodness for YouTube
videos I taught myself to podcast. It was, you
know, this is the... a very, very good example
of how old dogs can learn new tricks. And I just
got inspired to do it myself. And I think that
one thing that I wanted to do with the Hope for
the Animals podcast is I wanted it to be a little
different in that I wanted to interview advocates
and activists and academics that don't generally
make the rounds on podcasts. I try to seek out
voices that aren't heard a lot, grassroots level
activists that we may not have heard from before,
that have unique perspectives and stories to
tell themselves. I mean, I have had well -known
voices on as well. Jane, Victoria, and Glenn,
who's also here with us. Glenn Merzer have all
been on my podcast. So, you know, it's a wide
range of amazing people doing incredible work
with long form interviews. And, you know, people
that are on the ground doing the work for animals
on the grassroots level, I just, I kind of wanted
to focus in on them and some specific topics
as well that I don't think get covered. uh in
other on other podcasts uh as much uh like the
humane hoax which is something that is very important
to me humane washing green washing and animal
farming i feel this is incredibly important right
now i've written two books on the subject uh
one's an anthology with 18 contributing authors
and so i have numerous shows on the humane hoax
I also like to get into the spiritual, especially
around Ahimsa, nonviolence, and the Dharma traditions.
So I have some specific things that I talk about.
And I'll just wrap up with something that Jane
said that I think is really important around
our... We're kind of like we've democratized
media in a way, right? We're in this amazing
time. where we can take control of our own media
space and present something. I remember back
in the 90s when I was involved with grassroots
action, we did these amazing actions. We would
shut down slaughterhouses for the day, these
big actions, but nobody really knew about them
other than the cops that were there that were
called. We didn't have social media. I remember
there were groups where we couldn't even afford
a camera. So that has all changed now. Back then,
if we didn't have one of the five big corporate
media outlets cover, then nobody knew. But now
everyone has a camera on their phone. Everyone
can create media. And doing a podcast now, it's
so exciting. to be able to reach so many more
people now on this grassroots level. Media has
now been democratized, and it's a great time,
I think, for spreading the message. Thank you,
Hope. Glenn? Yes, well, my podcast and YouTube
show is cleverly called The Glenn Merzer Show.
I was going to call it own your health. And then
I discovered there was already a podcast called
own your health. So I just gave up and used my
own name. And as to why I did it, you know, I'm
not always sure of my own motivations, I find.
But there's the altruistic motivation, which
Jane mentioned, which is that we need to affect.
a vegan world by yesterday. And both because
of the cruelty to the animals and because of
the climate emergency, we're way behind the curve.
So we need to get the word out to as many people
as we can as quickly as we can using any means
we can. So that's the altruistic reason. But
there's also a selfish reason for me, which is
just I enjoy it. I've met a lot of people doing
this. I got a movie made doing this. I interviewed
a guy on my show who has an animal sanctuary
and he's also involved somehow in the world of
finance. So I asked him, because I'm a desperate
enough screenwriter, I asked him, does he happen
to know any very wealthy people who instead of
pissing away their money on Bitcoin might be
interested in making a movie? And he said, well,
I know one guy and I called that guy and it turned
out he wasn't a wealthy movie producer, but he
convinced me that it would be inexpensive to
make a movie in St. Louis where he was based.
And then I was able to find the financing and
we just made a movie called Buddhist Blues in
St. Louis, which has a vegan message. So it's
at Buddhist Blues dot com. So, you know, I just
enjoy doing the podcast and seeing I just interviewed
yesterday who's a woman who's a musician and
a vegan in Istanbul. You know, so I'm meeting
a lot of people and I'm enjoying it. Thank you,
Glenn Victoria. So I started the Main Street
Vegan podcast in 2012 and I think it was the
fifth vegan podcast something like that So it's
really blossomed since then So it started for
me from a book. I wrote a book called Main Street
Vegan, which basically had the same idea as the
podcast. I wanted it to be Main Street. I'm from
Kansas City, Missouri, not so far from St. Louis,
and grew up a block off Main Street, and had
this understanding, I think, that if we got the
regular people, we'd be home free. Publisher
didn't like Main Street, wanted me to change
the title. I had a vegan miracle, ran into Michael
Moore on the street, and he said, it's a great
title, let me talk to them. So there's this three
-way call with my editor and an Academy Award
winner and me. That's how I got the book title.
And once we knew I had the book title, All these
other ideas started popping, one of which was
there ought to be a mainstream vegan radio show.
I had heard a podcast, but I wasn't really thinking
about them. And I had a little bit of a radio
background. I had had a show on the Martha Stewart
channel of Sirius for about a year and a half
until there stopped being a Martha Stewart channel
of Sirius. And so when I started with Main Street
Vegan, it was on the Unity Radio Network, which
was a radio arm of Unity Ministries, which is
an interesting progressive Protestant denomination
founded by vegans, kind of lost their way from
the veganism somewhat, but were willing to have
this show on their network. And that was so easy
for me because unlike you hope, I'm not a good
learner of technology. at all so those first
eight nine years whatever it was of having an
engineer and just getting great guests and reading
their books and showing up was so wonderful and
then when unity decided to not do radio anymore
and it was independently a podcast i gotta say
that so added to the part of the workload that's
really, really difficult for me. So while I totally
agree with everybody else about the wonderful
guests and the interesting sort of juggling of
I know I need to have some high profile guests
to keep the listenership up. That's what people
are looking for. But some of the best shows are
these people nobody's ever heard of who do these
just incredible, brave and amazing things. And
that's all great. And then There is editing and
posting and show notes. And that's real tough
for me. Now, many of you have mentioned, you
know, different experiences with guests. And
I would love to dive into that. You know, who
were the guests that impacted you the most that
you remember to this day that left a positive
impression or negative one on on you? Yeah. I
think of an interview I did with a fellow whose
name I'm not going to give because he didn't
give his name. I know his name, but he didn't
want to say it on the podcast. But he's a wonderful
fellow and he's become a friend of mine. And
I think soon he'll come back and use his name.
But he was a cowboy and kind of like Howard Lyman.
He had been in a. You know, in a field of endeavor
that. he realized slowly was unnecessary and
even harmful, and he was feeling bad about it.
But his background was both doing cowboy work,
you know, corralling the cows or whatever they
do, and making leather saddles. And that was
still what he was doing for a living, making
leather saddles as he evolved to being a vegan.
And he was trying to transition out of it because
he needs to make his living. And now he's starting
to make other products and giving up the saddles.
He is he has i think at this point just about
finished transitioning out of that career but
he came on my show and talked about. What was
wrong with it and how bad he felt and how he
felt stuck. You know because he needed to provide
for himself and his wife and you know it was
it was powerful. That's a beautiful story. That
reminds me of those support groups for Catholic
priests who have lost their faith. That's a real
thing. And they are stuck in more than a job.
It's a vocation. It's all of their life. And
they have to deal with that. Someone else? Jane?
It's not an individual per se as much as a format.
We've done several My podcast on Unchained TV
is Truth Files with Jane Velez Mitchell, but
a lot of times we just change it to whatever's
happening, breaking news. For example, we were
live when Wayne Chung and his team of up to 100
activists stormed Ridgeland Farms just the other
day, rescuing 31 beagles, and that was live.
And it was extremely exciting where you see the
people holding the beagles come over the hill.
And then police confiscated eight of the 31 And
we had it live with the tug of war between the
activists and the sheriff's Deputies with this
one beagle. It was heartbreaking, but that was
very exciting and then we did a one of the first
interviews or I think the first interview with
Wayne shung after he was released from jail and
Also what we do on unshade TV during that podcast
is sometimes switch it to an emergency town hall.
I work a lot with In Defense of Animals and various
other groups, plant -based treaty, animal -saved
movement, but In Defense of Animals was trying
to save turkeys' dogs. The government decided,
oh, we're going to modernize and we're going
to kill all the dogs and cats in the street by
poisoning them and beating them to death. It
was horrible. We did an emergency town hall.
We had people in Turkey talking about what was
happening on the ground. We also did an emergency
town hall after the LA fires because so many
people were having a hard time getting back in
there to find their cats and dogs and other pets.
And so, you know, it's like a dozen people gathered
something like this. But we use StreamYard. We
don't use Zoom. And that allows you to do a lot
of bells and whistles like graphics, still photos,
video, video with sound, video without sound,
intro videos, outro videos. It's like a studio
in a box. I would highly recommend it. And then
we also did an emergency town hall to end fireworks.
Fireworks are absolutely an instrument of terror
on wildlife and pets, not to mention veterans
and other people with PTSD. And so we did an
emergency town hall on that. And the list goes
on and on. So when it's a subject that involves
a lot of different groups, different organizations,
we have just scheduled a new emergency town hall
for the pet overpopulation crisis in Southern
California because our shelter system is in shambles.
Um, even though there's many, many wonderful
ideas that have been suggested, the bureaucrats,
the hacks want to do it the same old way and
dogs are dying. And so we're doing an emergency
town hall on that. Thank you, Jane. I just want
to say such amazing work that Jane does. I mean
the The the level I've been having the video
and the you know, the kind of like Media like
a channel. I mean you you are CNN for animals,
you know, I just love that. It's incredible Yeah,
thank you so much Jane for all that amazing work
so I think the question was what are my favorite
podcasts or guests that I've had and You know,
I do actually, on our website, HopeForTheAnimals
.org, it's actually HopeForTheAnimalsPodcast
.org, there's a drop -down menu, like a button
at the top that has a drop -down menu, and I
have categorized the podcasts so you can find
ones around. If they have a theme, like chickens,
or the environment, or anti -oppression, things
like that. And I do have one that's called Hope's
Favorites. So I do actually have my favorite
podcast there and I went to look and see what
I had put in that category. And I guess the ones
that I'll mention are my favorite personally
are when my husband Kojen is able to come on
and co -host. We've been married 26 years and
he's assisted me with vegan education for all
that time. And I've had him on the podcast numerous
times, and we've talked about various things.
On episode 48, we talked about several animal
rescues that we've done over the years. We seem
to encounter animals in need in the world on
occasion, but it's happened numerous times over
the years. And so we talk about how we rescued
this rabbit on the freeway and a bear family
in Tahoe and got them to safety. I mean, we've
had a lot of these really interesting rescues.
So we talked about that on episode 48. Several
episodes we've talked about our own personal
philosophies that we've kind of evolved over
the years. around veganism. We've talked about
Kojen's work in the Dharma religions, Jainism
in particular. He works for a Jain research institute,
Arihanta, and he teaches Sanskrit and Dharma
traditions and ethics classes. And then our latest
one, that was fairly recently, episode 127, was
called From Teddy Bears to Talking Fish. and
we talk about our love of animated films and
the depiction of animals as people, like the
personhood of animals from back, you know, from
Bambi all the way through now to, you know, Pixar
and Disney doing these popular children's entertainment
and how animals are personalized, have personhood.
So anyway, I cover a lot. in the on the podcast.
But the ones with Kojen are kind of special to
me and and they get a lot of views. So I think
other other people like them as well. Thank you.
Personally, my favorite one is Nemo, Finding
Nemo, the first one. So many vegan themes in
Finding Nemo. It's amazing. We talk about Finding
Nemo in that podcast. It's it's yeah. And and
then then Dory, the next one, the second one.
Finding Dory was kind of it's interesting. They
it's almost like they pushed back a little because
it was all around an aquarium and they you know,
or you know kind of like oh It's not as I think
that Nemo went almost too far for the you know,
the funders or producers or somebody Because
there was pushback on it. It's interesting. Anyway,
you should listen our podcast about it Victoria
I think for me having been doing this for such
a long time now what's really special about podcasting
as a medium is that it lasts forever and Several
guests who've been on my show and you guys may
have had the same experience They're not with
us anymore. So I can think back to interviews
with John Robbins Dr. John McDougal Sherry Kolb
and Stephen Wise and All of that power and man
presence and focus exists in those interviews,
even though they're no longer on Earth. And since
I kind of talked about something somber, I'll
talk about something funny. I had Nimai Delgado,
the really gorgeous vegan bodybuilder on my show,
just after he had been on the front cover of
Muscle and Fitness magazine. And it happened
that I was at Penn Station and the newsstand
and there was the magazine. It's like, well,
I should buy this magazine, read the article
since I'm going to be interviewing him next week.
So I went up, you know, to pay my money and put
the magazine down. And here is this absolutely
extraordinarily bigger than life, literally,
beautiful young man just in his little, you know,
boxing briefs or whatever they call them for
bodybuilders. And the woman behind the counter
says, yeah, I'd buy that one too. Thank you,
Victoria. Anita. Yeah. So there's a specific
answer I want to first talk about. So his name
is Val Gruner. So in Africa and probably a lot
of places, there are conflicts between wildlife
and farmers. And so there were these lions, I
guess, who were eating livestock. So they were
held in captivity. And one of the lions gave
birth. And in the wild, the lions, when they
have the babies, they go off by themselves. The
mom takes care of the babies and then brings
them back. But because she was in captivity,
very stressed, two of the babies died, and then
there was one baby left. And so Val took this
baby, named her Surga. And what is so cool about
it is he decided right away that he was not going
to raise her, keep her as a pet. He wanted her
to live the life as a wild lion. So he slept
outside with her. She's unfamiliar with being
inside. She's 13 years now. He has built Like
it's called the Kalahari. She has, I don't know
how many heck deers of land. So she's a wild
lion, but the two of them go off hunting together.
She loves him. She also has like a protected
area where she can go to if she wants, you know,
wants to feel safe. Doesn't want to be around
other wild lions. Cause there were sometimes
the wild lions do come into that area. It's,
it's, it's a wild place. So, but to me, that
is one of the greatest love stories I have ever.
um scene because he's just dedicated his life
to ensuring that she gets to live the life of
a lioness which I just I just thought was so
beautiful um and because it's called kindness
is everything and I you know have all different
kinds of people on I love it when I have young
people on I've had young people who have advocated
for sharks against shark finning I've had young
people um you know climate activists um and You
know, often when someone's homeless, they don't
want to go to a shelter because they're not allowed
to take their companion animal. And so they're
advocating for places that allow people who are
unhoused to be allowed to bring their companion
animal, which I think is just incredible. Yeah,
so I don't know. I think the young people, like
climate activists, all of them, they have so
much energy. They're doing such great work and
and I love love chatting with them. Beautiful.
Thank you, Anita Glenn. Yeah, I think it was
Jane who mentioned Finding Nemo, so I wanted
to tell my Finding Nemo story. I became a vegetarian
at the age of 17. I've been thinking about doing
it. I decided I would do it the first day of
summer vacation after high school. So I got up
in the morning and I had an English breakfast
with jam for breakfast and phone rang. It was
my old buddy Dave. And I said, Dave, congratulate
me. I became a vegetarian. And he said, that's
great. Since when? And I said, well, you know,
since breakfast. And he laughed at me. And I
haven't had any flesh foods for the last 53 years
or so because he laughed at me. So then Dave
along the way stopped eating red meat, but he
still ate chicken and fish. And then he saw the
movie Chicken Run. And he was just morally outraged
by the treatment of those claymation figures.
So he gave up eating chicken and he became a
pescatarian. And then he saw Finding Nemo. And
he gave up the fish. He still eats dairy. So
I just want to ask everyone, if you happen to
know anyone who could make an animated film about
cheese, please. That's what we need. Nothing
comes to mind. I am thinking, you know, animated
movie with cows. That needs to be the next one.
The next big Pixar film would be around the dairy
industry. What about Wicked? Wicked is an outright
animal rights movie. And so that was just really,
I haven't seen the second movie. I don't know
if it's as heavily animal rights themed, but
that was very exciting. Yeah. The books, the
books have a strong animal rights theme through
them. Yeah. So I was wondering, you know, I've
seen so many vegan podcasters or vegan podcasts
just disappearing after about eight episodes,
10 episodes. There are so many of them out there.
Why do you think they're not succeeding at persevering
as podcasters? And do you have any advice for
the vegans out there, the animal rights activists
out there who want to launch a podcast and keep
it going for more than eight episodes. Well,
I'll just I'll say it because it's hard. It's
it's a lot of work. You don't realize going in
like how much work and how many aspects there
are to it from trying to find the guests, setting
up an interview, doing the recording, editing
and then promotion. You have to be able to put
energy into promoting as well. You can't just
let it sit there. So it's a lot of work. There's
a lot of steps and a lot of aspects to it. And
I would say when I started, I wanted to do weekly.
And I quickly realized that that was just too
much. They're just, I didn't have the time. I
had so many other things to do. So I thought,
okay, twice a month. And I set, you know, the
first and 15th of the month, right, that I was
going to get them out. And that worked for a
little while, but there are times, I mean, my
work is very seasonal. I organize two vegan fasts.
You know, there's a lot going on. And so I would
allow myself, if I just couldn't get to that
podcast, I wasn't gonna stay up all night. And
try, you know, I wasn't going to kill myself
to get it out. If I skipped one of those times,
oh, well, you know, I just I had to forgive myself
and say, you know, I'm going to get it out as
soon as I can. And maybe it's a week late. Maybe
it's two weeks late, but it's OK. And and I think
that, you know, just allowing myself a little
leeway and not to get so overwhelmed that that
it was just killing me to get get a bod gassed
out, get the episode out. So yeah, I guess that's
some advice is just to set a timer or set a schedule,
have a schedule that you want to adhere to, but
also allow yourself that leeway and that leniency
to be able to do what you need to do, take care
of yourself and get everything else done as well.
So, yeah. Thank you, Hope. Victoria? I would
just follow up on something that I heard an actor
say once to young people who wanted to go into
theater, only do it if you absolutely must, if
there's nothing else that you can possibly do.
And I think that just because the technology
is available, oh, let's have a podcast. I don't
think lots of times that people whose podcasts
don't last very long have really thought it through,
you know, what kind of theme, what kind of frequency.
Where are they going to get these guests? And
what are they going to do when publicists and
people like that contact them about somebody
who may turn out to not even be vegan? There's
just a lot to it. So I think if you are really
just like, what can I do to help animals just
sit down with a good friend who knows you well
and can sometimes reflect back maybe more than
we know of ourselves oftentimes. What should
i be doing is it a podcast is it something else
because maybe not or maybe it is eight episodes
maybe it's i just if i can speak to these eight
vegan authorities and get that out there my work
in this aspect would be done so there's lots
of ways to do it and i'd also say to people who
tried it and it didn't work out as long as you're
still working for animals and for the veganism
it's a success it's all a success as long as
you're in the game. I so agree. What I always
say is whatever your skill is, you can apply
that to helping animals. We have a friend, Sheena
Gao, who's an incredible violinist, and she plays
at all sorts of galas. She's played at unchained
TV fundraisers. She's brilliant. So she's doing
her activism, helping us raise money by playing
violin. She might not be the person to have a
podcast. I think that people should do what they're
normally good at. I mean, you mentioned we called
Unchained TV the vegan Netflix CNN. Well, I worked
at CNN. I had a show on CNN Headline News. I
worked at Disney. I worked at CBS. I worked at
telepictures. So I've seen how newsrooms work.
And so it's something that seemed obvious to
me to try to replicate. Obviously, I would like
to have the views of a CNN or Netflix, but We're
getting there. We had 50 million views in 2025
across all platforms. And I want to break that
down. That was up from 20 million in 2024. Now,
just to put it in context, that includes social
media. So it includes Instagram, TikTok, LinkedIn,
YouTube, and some other platforms. And it also
includes collaborations, which means that when
we all collaborate, with other groups on post,
but still we feel like we're growing. And there
are many times when I'm batting my head against
the wall going, oh, you know, I wish this was
more successful. I wish that was more successful,
but you just keep plotting forward. And then
sometimes there's this breakthrough. Like with
the whole situation with the Ridgeland dog rescue,
we ended up going on live like an hour 38 minutes
prior because you never know when exactly a rescue
is going to happen. But then we were able to
take that live and then put it out there and
it was picked up by mainstream media. I just
saw this morning that mainstream media was quoting
some of the things that the rescues were saying
and gave us an attribution mention. So you just
have to keep plugging away for that breakthrough.
It's not going to land in your lap and you need
to do what you're good at. Um, you know, Glenn's
an incredible writer, so he's helped, uh, create
some of the most important books in the movement.
So right there is a perfect example. Thank you,
Jane. Anita. So I remember I asked you this question
on the podcast when you came on. And I remember
your answer was, you would dissuade people from
doing it. You would try to convince them not
to do it, which was very funny. So for me, it's
therapy, really having these conversations with
folks who are just doing lovely things. And it's
also building a community. I mean, obviously,
yeah, I would love for it to grow and reach millions
of people. That would be amazing because then
it could do more good work. But yeah, it's that
community, because then you don't feel like you're
alone. And so if you find people that you want
to chat with, that you have an interest with,
I think that can be great too. Thank you, Anita.
Glenn? Excuse me. First, thank you, Jane, for
the kind words. I think the question is why Why
do some people give up after eight podcasts?
And it's just very difficult, you know, and it's
not lucrative unless you're wildly successful.
So it's a lot of work for really no or very little
money. And so it's not surprising to me that
people give up. You might not think it's that
hard to book guests and. set up interviews and
then edit and publicize it and so forth. But
it is it is all a lot of work that that takes
time. Very true. Thank you, Glenn. And I guess
my last question for all of you is about, you
know, stories that you're covering or have covered
and that are not on people's radar right now.
I would love if you could shed light on some
of those stories. Oh, I'll give you a story.
We just recently did a story about Direct Action
Everywhere putting out a map of California's
1 ,300 factory farms. This is a major breakthrough
because California is considered the humane capital.
We passed Proposition 12, we passed Proposition
2, but This factory farm map is so extraordinary
because then you can use a Google map. It literally
points out every single factory farm, and then
you can go right in there and see what's going
on. And already they've uncovered one really
horrific situation. Vox recently did a story
on it. It involves a dairy, a dairy farm and
the just the monstrosity that the size of it
is so overwhelming. And so there you're shattering
stereotypes. People don't realize California
is the largest dairy state in the nation. It
totally eclipses Vermont or Wisconsin, you know,
the cheese state. No, it's California with millions
of cows. And so I think that is a breakthrough.
Typically, it didn't get the kind of media coverage
that, for example, when DXC goes in and does
an open rescue and everybody gets arrested, they
get coverage on that. And I always say it's a
crying shame that people have to risk going to
prison to get these stories out there. This is
a very legitimate story. It's scientific. It's
an extraordinary breakthrough interactive map.
using the very latest technology. And while Vox,
which is an independent media, did an incredible
story related to what they found when they used
that map, it wasn't picked up by mainstream media.
So mainstream media is completely, in my opinion,
co -opted by the meat and dairy industry. And
that's another reason why these podcasts are
so important. We're the equivalent of people
back in the days of like the 19th century, you
know, printing out little pieces of paper and
handing them to people in the middle of the night.
We're not reaching the numbers that mainstream
media reaches, but I'm sorry, insanity is doing
the same thing over and over again and expecting
a different result. We keep begging and praying
for mainstream media to give this issue fair
coverage. It's not going to happen because look
at the advertisers. primarily meat, dairy and
pharmaceuticals, fast food and pharmaceuticals,
the two industries that would collapse if people
woke up to the fact that they don't need to eat
animals. So we are doing something extremely
important and we're not reaching the obviously
mainstream numbers in most cases, although hats
off to DxE when they get mainstream coverage
by risking going to jail. and doing time, but
every podcast is super important because we could
make up with numbers of podcasts. If we had 10
,000 podcasters, again, the meat industry had
something called masters and beef advocacy where
they're churning out social media influencers.
I say every social, every vegan create an Instagram
page. post your recipes, talk into the camera,
be a citizen journalist for animals. Yeah, that
resonates with me so much, Jane, and shout out
to Changing Markets. They are an environmental
organization foundation that investigates that
very bias in social media and mainstream media.
They have published a few reports, you know,
showing how many of those influencers, including,
you know, scientists, medical doctors, and so
on are on the payroll of this big industry. So
really great work, Victoria. Yeah. I'll just
tell one story. This was from 2016 and Miraculously,
this woman did get a coverage of mainstream media
coverage. She was like one of those, you know,
she got her 15 minutes. But when it happened,
her name was Christine Loghead. She lived in
a small city in Canada and did what we all have
wanted to do, get one of those lobsters out of
the tank. So one lobster was left, you know,
the end of the day. And she kind of went back
and forth because most of us as vegans don't
want to support the industry. So even to save
an animal, we're shy about buying it. So she
was talking to the department guy. She actually
went back to the store and he said he would just
give this being to her. So then she needed to
know how to get the lobster back to where he
or she came from. So she did some research. She
found a vegan in that place that would accept
the lobster. And then she went to UPS, having
studied up on how to get a lobster transported.
And all the UPS people, as we so often see, Even
an animal that people would otherwise eat when
they have the opportunity to help that actual
living animal that they can see everybody wants
to do it. So the whole UPS team got very excited
about doing everything perfectly. So the lobster
was sent back to his or her homeland and the
person that released the lobster said that the
lobster stood at the edge of the sea like, huh?
Where am I? What's going on? And then it was
like, oh, wow, I am home and leapt as a lobster
might leap into the sea. Beautiful story. Thank
you, Victoria Anita. Oh, yeah. I love that story.
Oh my gosh. Um, yeah. So I recently had this
group on, they're called Transformation Project,
because this is one thing I've always wondered
about is what would it take to transform these
animal agriculture farms into farms that produce
plants and vegetables. And I just loved having
these people on. It was just such a great conversation.
And the fact that they're doing that work and
there's such a demand for it. And what was really
interesting to me was that Because I always come
at it from, you know, feeling empathy for the
animals, right? Like what a horrible situation
they're in and how awful but she also brought
up the fact that yes, the obviously the animals
are the ones who suffer the most but also the
farmers who are raising these animals for slaughter,
apparently, and I didn't realize this, they really
have no control. It's the big corporations that
control everything that they do. They decide,
you know, how the animal's gonna be kept, how
they're transported, and all of that, and the
amount of death that these folks get themselves
into, and the amount of hours they work, and
how they're so willing to... find another alternative,
you know, a viable alternative and how much more
money they can actually make, um, growing mushrooms
or plants as opposed to, uh, raising animals
for slaughter. So I really enjoyed that conversation
and I would love for something like that to hit
mainstream media. Thank you Anita Glenn. Well,
first let me, uh, lower expectations. I'm not
going to be able to top the lobster story. So
Please understand that but of course, I don't
really do stories the way Jane does on her network
I mainly interview individuals and Sometimes
it's about animal rights. Sometimes it's about
the planet and sometimes it's about health You
remember that I was initially gonna call the
the podcast on your health so the theme of Taking
your health into your own hands is important
to me. And I've interviewed a couple of guys
who have their own brands of supplements. My
good friend, Jeff Palmer, who's a bodybuilder
and a vegan and a brilliant, brilliant guy just
knows more about nutrition than I'd say just
about any nutritionist in the country. And so
I've talked to him about nutritional subjects,
and also he's got a wonderful new supplement
that's made from mycelium, which is really a
way that we could help feed the world and end
hunger in the world, because it's such a powerful
protein -packed powder. I also interviewed a
guy who's got a supplement company. He's not
a vegan, so I've had a couple of opportunities
to argue with him about nutrition. But he's got
a supplement that seems to work for people. Even
people have said they've overcome cancer. We
can't say cure, but people have said that they've
overcome cancer. And he claims that he overcame
a rare blood cancer with this with astaxanthin,
which is made from red algae and his particular
formulation of astaxanthin. So for me, getting
these kinds of stories out, if you could call
them stories about health and taking health into
your own hands, I myself had a couple of hernias.
And I discovered when I got hernias that I thought
it would just be a simple operation. I could
go to a local surgeon. But no, it turns out they
all do hernias wrong and they hernia repairs
wrong. They put in some piece of plastic mesh
that you don't need. And I found a surgeon in
Florida who does it correctly. Went to him twice.
No problems. I didn't have to take an aspirin.
And so I interviewed him on my show about essentially
why is it that only three or four hernias surgeons
in America are doing this correctly? And to me,
it's outrageous. And I think it has something
to do with monetary incentives. And I think it
also has to do with the fact that the country
is so overweight that if you are very overweight,
you need that plastic mesh. So if they're going
to teach one method they'll teach the method
mesh method But it's not the optimal method So
for me that's as close to doing stories as I've
done is is interviewing people about health subjects
Thank You Glenn and finally hope yeah, so the
question was what interesting stories we've done
I've been so inspired by so many of my guests
and my podcast, The Hope for the Animals podcast,
we get into kind of unique areas, unique stories.
Some of the things that come to mind are around
the humane hoax that I've talked about and written
books about. but also around anti -oppression
and social justice issues. We've had some amazing
voices on Lorne and Alice, a food empowerment
project. I had Honey LeBronx on, who is a vegan
drag queen. And that episode was so funny, but
also very moving. So I loved that episode. We've
had two episodes. on anti -fat bias in the vegan
movement and our kind of disdain around seeing
and around vegans that are overweight and how
we really need to be more inclusive of anyone
and everyone. Going vegan and being careful of
things like that So some really unique stories
and my latest episode actually is called men
and meat and it is about that the what we're
seeing now the kind of the rise of the manosphere
and how high protein and meat and Saturated fat
and all of that coming back with our current
administration and the maha movement and how
men are very susceptible to all that and how,
you know, I came away from that episode with
really kind of a more empathetic feeling towards
men and going vegan or wanting to go vegan. because
there's a lot of psychological and cultural things
working against them wanting to be more compassionate
and eat a more compassionate diet. So really
some amazing episodes. And I'll just, last thing
I want to say is I think it's so amazing where
my podcasts are being listened to. And I'm sure
others, uh as well probably have this experience
when you look at the statistics uh the the places
that the hope for the animals podcast is being
downloaded it's amazing i just checked before
coming on to this interview and the last 10 episodes
were downloaded in 54 countries i just it's so
amazing to me that we have such a wide breath
a wide range all over the world with podcasting,
right? I have listeners in Canada and Australia
and Singapore, Sweden, the Netherlands, India.
I mean, it's wild to me that we can just reach
all around the world with podcasting. And I think
I mentioned something about, you know, my activism
in the 90s being so different. I remember I would
give vegan talks, you know, with like a hand
-drawn flyer where I'd just actually written
the information down and take it to Kinko's and
made copies. And you'd get like six people that
would come to my vegan talks and I'd be so happy
with having six people show up, you know? And
comparing that now to the thousands of downloads
that I'm able to get on these episodes, I just
feel very blessed to have this platform of podcasting
and to be able to have the reach. that we do
now with this new world of podcasting. Beautiful.
Thank you, Hope. And thank you, everyone, for
all of your great insights and answers. This
has been such a pleasant conversation. And yeah,
I'm a fan of all of your podcasts. And so being
able to promote them with my audience and celebrate
podcasting in the vegan space, animal rights
space, kindness space. more broadly with you,
Anita. It's truly an honor, and I value that
so much. So thank you for having made that happen.
Thank you. Thank you, Ryan. So great to see everybody
and to meet you, Anita. Thank you, everybody.
It was really fun. Thank you. Thank you, everyone,
for listening. I kindly invite you to share this
podcast with the vegans you know. Let's encourage
more people to take action. Again, thank you
so much for caring and I will see you next Tuesday
for a new episode.