WEBVTT 00:00:01.600 --> 00:00:04.780 Welcome to The Vegan Report, my name is Ryan 00:00:04.780 --> 00:00:09.720 and we are kicking off 2026 in full force with 00:00:09.720 --> 00:00:13.480 an episode featuring Captain Paul Watson, the 00:00:13.480 --> 00:00:16.980 legend himself. Captain Paul Watson is a marine 00:00:16.980 --> 00:00:20.260 wildlife conservation and environmental activist. 00:00:21.039 --> 00:00:24.399 Watson was one of the founding members and directors 00:00:24.399 --> 00:00:29.940 of Greenpeace. In 1977, he left Greenpeace and 00:00:29.940 --> 00:00:32.920 founded the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society. 00:00:33.560 --> 00:00:36.939 Today, he is at the helm of the Paul Watson 00:00:36.939 --> 00:00:41.060 Foundation. We began our conversation by highlighting 00:00:41.060 --> 00:00:45.240 the incredible life and legacy of departed animal 00:00:45.240 --> 00:00:49.240 rights giant Brigitte Bardot. We also address 00:00:49.240 --> 00:00:52.679 the very bad press, the announcement of her death 00:00:52.679 --> 00:00:56.109 triggered. Then Captain Watson shared with me 00:00:56.109 --> 00:01:00.310 his opinion on the infighting in the vegan community, 00:01:00.990 --> 00:01:04.890 the real reason why Japan wants his head, the 00:01:04.890 --> 00:01:08.370 behind -the -scenes account of the hostile takeover 00:01:08.370 --> 00:01:13.430 at Sea Shepherd US, the story of his LSD experience, 00:01:13.989 --> 00:01:17.549 and much more. Support the Captain Paul Watson 00:01:17.549 --> 00:01:21.150 Foundation now. Visit the episode notes to connect 00:01:21.150 --> 00:01:24.390 with the good people there. I hope you missed 00:01:24.390 --> 00:01:28.769 the show and are ready for a new year full of 00:01:28.769 --> 00:01:31.750 thought -provoking, insightful and fascinating 00:01:31.750 --> 00:01:35.829 conversations with passionate people. Buckle 00:01:35.829 --> 00:01:39.109 up for what's to come. If you are not following 00:01:39.109 --> 00:01:42.930 the show, do it already and share this episode 00:01:42.930 --> 00:01:47.030 with your fellow vegans. Paul's energy is contagious 00:01:47.030 --> 00:01:50.969 and that's the boost we all need to start the 00:01:50.969 --> 00:01:56.099 new year. Thank you. Also, I wanted to start 00:01:56.099 --> 00:01:59.780 this conversation by talking about Brigitte Bardot. 00:01:59.959 --> 00:02:04.920 We lost her a few days ago. She was 91 years 00:02:04.920 --> 00:02:09.939 old, if I remember correctly. You wrote some 00:02:09.939 --> 00:02:12.300 beautiful words about her. You called her Saint 00:02:12.300 --> 00:02:17.039 Brigitte and an angel of mercy. And I wanted, 00:02:17.039 --> 00:02:20.629 you know, to ask you... How should we remember 00:02:20.629 --> 00:02:23.710 Brigitte Pardo and her contribution to the animal 00:02:23.710 --> 00:02:26.949 cause? Well, I think we should remember for her 00:02:26.949 --> 00:02:29.949 achievements. To me, one of the most significant 00:02:29.949 --> 00:02:32.129 things she did was her contribution to ending 00:02:32.129 --> 00:02:36.270 the horrible Canadian commercial seal hunt. First 00:02:36.270 --> 00:02:38.689 of all, starting with the ending of the killing 00:02:38.689 --> 00:02:42.180 of baby white coat. seal pops and then finally 00:02:42.180 --> 00:02:46.020 in two thousand eight the complete ban on canadian 00:02:46.020 --> 00:02:48.580 seal products in the markets around the world 00:02:48.580 --> 00:02:53.060 especially europe and she was a very very instrumental 00:02:53.060 --> 00:02:56.520 in achieving both those successes. So what that 00:02:56.520 --> 00:02:58.800 really translates into is literally millions 00:02:58.800 --> 00:03:01.419 of lives saved because the quotas that were being 00:03:01.419 --> 00:03:04.439 set by the Canadian government is about 400 ,000 00:03:04.439 --> 00:03:07.020 seals a year, and that's not happening anymore. 00:03:07.240 --> 00:03:09.439 They're still killing seals because the Canadian 00:03:09.439 --> 00:03:11.639 government subsidizes the kill, although there's 00:03:11.639 --> 00:03:14.000 no market and the seal pelts just pile up in 00:03:14.000 --> 00:03:16.800 warehouses, and they subsidize it to about 20 00:03:16.800 --> 00:03:21.620 million euros a year. The kill, although the 00:03:21.620 --> 00:03:24.219 quota remains, it was 400 ,000. Now it's an unlimited 00:03:24.219 --> 00:03:26.599 quota. They can kill as many as they want, but 00:03:26.599 --> 00:03:29.680 now they only killed what? Last year, 17 ,000, 00:03:29.680 --> 00:03:32.080 which is a lot, but still it's a substantial 00:03:32.080 --> 00:03:36.979 drop from 400 ,000. Yes. You shared on the Paul 00:03:36.979 --> 00:03:40.740 Watson foundation, Instagram account, that picture 00:03:40.740 --> 00:03:45.080 of Prichard Bardo with a beautiful seal. I think 00:03:45.080 --> 00:03:48.240 that's an iconic picture. Can you tell us the 00:03:48.240 --> 00:03:51.930 story behind that picture? Well, in 1977, I was 00:03:51.930 --> 00:03:55.949 leading my second campaign to oppose the slaughter 00:03:55.949 --> 00:03:58.750 of seals in Canada. And my base camp was in a 00:03:58.750 --> 00:04:02.909 place called Blanc -Sablons in Quebec. And we 00:04:02.909 --> 00:04:04.990 were there. First of all, I had gone out onto 00:04:04.990 --> 00:04:07.030 the ice. I got into a confrontation with the 00:04:07.030 --> 00:04:10.229 sealers. I had been handcuffed to a pile of pelts, 00:04:10.270 --> 00:04:12.650 dragged across the ice through the water, you 00:04:12.650 --> 00:04:16.430 know, into the freezing water, then brought up 00:04:16.430 --> 00:04:18.189 from the deck and dragged through a gauntlet 00:04:18.189 --> 00:04:21.889 of of sealers who were kicking and punching and 00:04:21.889 --> 00:04:25.089 spitting at me. And then I was put into a cabin 00:04:25.089 --> 00:04:30.250 where I came down with hypothermia. So it was 00:04:30.250 --> 00:04:33.769 a very agonizing night. And the next morning, 00:04:33.990 --> 00:04:36.550 the Canadian Mounted Police picked me up and 00:04:36.550 --> 00:04:39.970 flew me back to to Labrador and to Blanc -Sablons. 00:04:40.550 --> 00:04:43.089 And as I stepped out of the helicopter, this 00:04:43.089 --> 00:04:45.829 woman came out of nowhere, and she started hugging 00:04:45.829 --> 00:04:48.470 and kissing me. She called me a hero, and I had 00:04:48.470 --> 00:04:52.689 no idea who she was. But when she went away, 00:04:52.810 --> 00:04:55.610 I said to one of my people, I said, who is that? 00:04:55.930 --> 00:04:57.790 And they said, oh, that's Brigitte Bardot. And 00:04:57.790 --> 00:05:00.629 I said, oh, incredible. And so the next day, 00:05:00.649 --> 00:05:02.490 we held a press conference with her, and she 00:05:02.490 --> 00:05:06.850 denounced the seal hunt in very, very stern, 00:05:07.050 --> 00:05:12.040 emotional ways, much to the dismay of the Canadian 00:05:12.040 --> 00:05:16.480 government. And from then on end, she was a substantial, 00:05:16.480 --> 00:05:20.860 you know, voice for the seals in Canada. And 00:05:20.860 --> 00:05:24.300 so I've been involved with working for her every 00:05:24.300 --> 00:05:28.220 year. It's been about almost 50 years. Wow, that's 00:05:28.220 --> 00:05:31.319 that's incredible. You know, I also want to share 00:05:31.319 --> 00:05:36.699 something about Brigitte. She stopped campaign 00:05:36.699 --> 00:05:40.100 in my native country of Algeria that had started 00:05:40.100 --> 00:05:44.300 in the mid 19th century of mass extermination 00:05:44.300 --> 00:05:47.839 of straight cats and dogs. So the government, 00:05:49.100 --> 00:05:51.860 you know, many governments made the decision 00:05:51.860 --> 00:05:56.519 every time to invest in catching dogs and cats, 00:05:56.779 --> 00:06:01.100 putting them in cages, leaving them hungry, starving 00:06:01.100 --> 00:06:06.149 for days, and then killing them by electric curing 00:06:06.149 --> 00:06:10.189 them. So basically sprinkling those cages with 00:06:10.189 --> 00:06:14.970 water and then, you know, using an electric current. 00:06:16.709 --> 00:06:19.610 And yeah, that was going on since the 19th century. 00:06:20.269 --> 00:06:24.829 No neutering campaigns. It was deemed, you know, 00:06:25.110 --> 00:06:28.949 to cost too much. And it's Brigitte who stopped 00:06:28.949 --> 00:06:32.629 that, who saved millions of lives in my native 00:06:32.629 --> 00:06:35.860 country. by just reaching out to the president 00:06:35.860 --> 00:06:39.680 of the country. And she did that only a few years 00:06:39.680 --> 00:06:44.480 ago. So even in the last chapter of her, the 00:06:44.480 --> 00:06:47.519 very last chapter of her life, she was dedicated 00:06:47.519 --> 00:06:50.500 and very much active for the cause. Well, I think 00:06:50.500 --> 00:06:52.699 she spent more time protecting animals than she 00:06:52.699 --> 00:06:55.959 did as an actress and a model and a singer. You 00:06:55.959 --> 00:07:00.000 know, she quit in 39 to devote herself exclusively 00:07:00.000 --> 00:07:03.259 to protecting animals. And that's the thing I 00:07:03.259 --> 00:07:05.139 think she'll be most remembered for. It's the 00:07:05.139 --> 00:07:07.720 thing that she would most want to be remembered 00:07:07.720 --> 00:07:11.399 for. So literally there's hundreds, you know, 00:07:11.459 --> 00:07:14.470 I mean, literally millions of animals that are 00:07:14.470 --> 00:07:17.189 alive and are not suffering today because of 00:07:17.189 --> 00:07:20.050 the interventions by Berger Bardo, who understood 00:07:20.050 --> 00:07:23.750 the power of her celebrity to reach people and 00:07:23.750 --> 00:07:27.610 make a difference. Beautifully said. A few words 00:07:27.610 --> 00:07:31.389 about France. I think your headquarters are now 00:07:31.389 --> 00:07:35.230 in France. You're based in France. Brigitte was 00:07:35.230 --> 00:07:38.949 also very much French. I think she defined in 00:07:38.949 --> 00:07:42.540 many ways what being French means. What is your 00:07:42.540 --> 00:07:46.800 relationship with the French culture and the 00:07:46.800 --> 00:07:49.959 country of France? Well, I have no problems here. 00:07:49.959 --> 00:07:52.519 I get along with pretty much everybody. It's 00:07:52.519 --> 00:07:55.519 an incredible support base. It's the one country 00:07:55.519 --> 00:07:59.180 that has actually come to my aid. When, for instance, 00:07:59.240 --> 00:08:01.480 when I was in prison in Greenland more than anywhere 00:08:01.480 --> 00:08:06.579 else. And so the support here has been incredible 00:08:06.579 --> 00:08:09.740 and very, very, very much appreciated. I want 00:08:09.740 --> 00:08:13.569 to Talking about needing support, I want to go 00:08:13.569 --> 00:08:19.449 back to what happened in July 2024 when you were 00:08:19.449 --> 00:08:25.350 arrested by Denmark. It was a real eye -opener 00:08:25.350 --> 00:08:28.089 for me. That story compelled me to learn more 00:08:28.089 --> 00:08:32.149 about your work and the pertinence of your work. 00:08:33.490 --> 00:08:36.610 And what it showed me, what happened to you, 00:08:36.789 --> 00:08:40.129 was a dark side of Governments that we deem, 00:08:40.330 --> 00:08:45.629 you know Democratic and civilized Use the expression, 00:08:45.750 --> 00:08:49.649 you know punishing kindness and I felt you know, 00:08:49.850 --> 00:08:54.090 yes, it's very much that case and so you were 00:08:54.090 --> 00:08:58.990 arrested by Denmark and there was that risk throughout 00:08:58.990 --> 00:09:03.409 that, you know ordeal of getting deported to 00:09:03.409 --> 00:09:09.460 Japan So my first question is Why does Japan 00:09:09.460 --> 00:09:12.440 want you? Well, I know exactly why they want 00:09:12.440 --> 00:09:15.440 me as for our campaigns against their illegal 00:09:15.440 --> 00:09:17.980 whaling operations in the Southern Ocean Whale 00:09:17.980 --> 00:09:20.799 Sanctuary, which we ended up stopping them chasing 00:09:20.799 --> 00:09:23.330 them out and They're no longer in the Southern 00:09:23.330 --> 00:09:25.710 Ocean's whale sanctuary, so it was a victory. 00:09:26.129 --> 00:09:28.230 But the thing that really bothered them was the 00:09:28.230 --> 00:09:30.649 television show called Whale Wars that we did, 00:09:30.889 --> 00:09:33.769 which reached millions of people and really humiliated 00:09:33.769 --> 00:09:35.929 the Japanese whaling industry and the Japanese 00:09:35.929 --> 00:09:38.090 government. And they want their retribution. 00:09:38.149 --> 00:09:39.830 They want their revenge. So it's really about 00:09:39.830 --> 00:09:42.429 a television show more than anything else. We 00:09:42.429 --> 00:09:45.129 never injured anybody. We never damaged anything 00:09:45.129 --> 00:09:47.509 really. We never, you know, all we were doing 00:09:47.509 --> 00:09:50.370 is intervening against an illegal operation. 00:09:50.539 --> 00:09:54.460 The charge against me was conspiracy to trespass 00:09:54.460 --> 00:09:58.639 and conspiracy to obstruct business. These are 00:09:58.639 --> 00:10:00.919 hardly things that get you on the Interpol red 00:10:00.919 --> 00:10:03.059 notice. In fact, I'm the only person in history 00:10:03.059 --> 00:10:06.399 on the Interpol red notice for those two things. 00:10:07.059 --> 00:10:10.059 I mean, red notices were set up to go after serial 00:10:10.059 --> 00:10:12.700 killers and war criminals, major drug traffickers. 00:10:12.860 --> 00:10:15.470 Nobody goes after something for a small... you 00:10:15.470 --> 00:10:17.590 know, things like that. And in fact, it didn't 00:10:17.590 --> 00:10:19.409 even happen, but they only make up the charges. 00:10:19.570 --> 00:10:22.149 But Japan's a very powerful country, and so they 00:10:22.149 --> 00:10:25.629 exerted a lot of pressure on Interpol and various 00:10:25.629 --> 00:10:29.610 countries. A month and a half ago, I was in Brazil, 00:10:29.730 --> 00:10:32.350 and two days after I arrived, I got a call from 00:10:32.350 --> 00:10:34.549 the Brazilian federal police saying that Japan 00:10:34.549 --> 00:10:39.730 had demanded my arrest in Brazil and the Brazilian 00:10:39.730 --> 00:10:42.830 federal police refused. In fact, they called 00:10:42.830 --> 00:10:44.769 me up and told me about it and the Japanese were 00:10:44.769 --> 00:10:47.889 furious that the Brazilians had actually told 00:10:47.889 --> 00:10:50.149 me about it. But you know, they forgot I was 00:10:50.149 --> 00:10:53.570 actually in Brazil at the invitation of the Brazilian 00:10:53.570 --> 00:10:57.370 federal police and Interpol and Prince William 00:10:57.370 --> 00:11:01.309 of the United Kingdom. And so it was hilarious 00:11:01.309 --> 00:11:02.990 that they were trying to do that. But let me 00:11:02.990 --> 00:11:05.340 just say about my arrest in Greenland. I saw 00:11:05.340 --> 00:11:09.279 that as a wonderful opportunity to make a campaign 00:11:09.279 --> 00:11:12.059 out of it, to focus attention on Japan's illegal 00:11:12.059 --> 00:11:14.860 whaling operations with the added benefit of 00:11:14.860 --> 00:11:17.840 focusing attention on Denmark's illegal killing 00:11:17.840 --> 00:11:20.539 of pilot whales and dolphins in the Faroe Islands. 00:11:20.840 --> 00:11:23.799 And the reason that Denmark came after me at 00:11:23.799 --> 00:11:27.679 the behest of Japan was because the Danes don't 00:11:27.679 --> 00:11:29.960 like what I do in the Faroe Islands. They wanted 00:11:29.960 --> 00:11:32.019 their revenge also, and they've been trying to 00:11:32.019 --> 00:11:34.639 do that for, well, I'd say 25, 30 years. they've 00:11:34.639 --> 00:11:37.659 been trying to do that. So, you know, I make 00:11:37.659 --> 00:11:39.659 a lot of enemies and I make enemies from people 00:11:39.659 --> 00:11:43.159 who torture and kill animals illegally because 00:11:43.159 --> 00:11:44.980 one of the things that I've done over the last 00:11:44.980 --> 00:11:48.159 50 years is where I intervene is against illegal 00:11:48.159 --> 00:11:51.460 activities. I've never been a protester. I don't 00:11:51.460 --> 00:11:54.929 protest. I intervene against illegal activities, 00:11:55.309 --> 00:11:57.809 or an interventionist group. And I've used it 00:11:57.809 --> 00:12:00.970 under a strategy which I call aggressive non 00:12:00.970 --> 00:12:03.629 -violence, aggressively intervene, but without 00:12:03.629 --> 00:12:06.590 causing injury. And in 50 years of doing this, 00:12:06.590 --> 00:12:09.090 I've never caused a single injury to a single 00:12:09.090 --> 00:12:11.950 person. I've never been convicted of a felony 00:12:11.950 --> 00:12:15.409 crime, and I've never lost a civil lawsuit. Because 00:12:15.409 --> 00:12:19.049 again, our opponents are criminals. Do you think 00:12:19.049 --> 00:12:22.980 the Japanese people are on your side? that it 00:12:22.980 --> 00:12:25.899 is a focus of maybe a faction of the government 00:12:25.899 --> 00:12:33.019 or of some old -fashioned tradition among Japanese 00:12:33.019 --> 00:12:36.379 elite. We have Japanese supporters. I received 00:12:36.379 --> 00:12:39.179 40, 50 letters when I was in prison from Japan, 00:12:39.259 --> 00:12:42.080 all very positive. We have a Japanese crew in 00:12:42.080 --> 00:12:45.480 Taiji right now opposing the dolphin kill in 00:12:45.480 --> 00:12:48.259 there. So there's a lot of people in Japan who 00:12:48.259 --> 00:12:51.120 are supportive. But just like in every country, 00:12:51.360 --> 00:12:53.139 most people don't question their government. 00:12:53.600 --> 00:12:58.080 And in this case, I would say 99 % of the Japanese 00:12:58.080 --> 00:13:00.379 people Just do what their government tells them 00:13:00.379 --> 00:13:03.679 to do. And so if the government says that they 00:13:03.679 --> 00:13:06.159 want me for being a terrorist, well, then that's 00:13:06.159 --> 00:13:08.500 what they'll believe. People believe what they're 00:13:08.500 --> 00:13:11.940 told. When I was brought into court in Denmark, 00:13:12.120 --> 00:13:14.779 first of all, I was really mystified as to how 00:13:14.779 --> 00:13:17.960 come they sent 12 heavily armed Danish police 00:13:17.960 --> 00:13:22.120 officers to arrest me when I arrived. when we 00:13:22.120 --> 00:13:24.519 got into court, I found out why. Because Japan 00:13:24.519 --> 00:13:28.700 had described me to the Danes as a very extremely 00:13:28.700 --> 00:13:32.039 dangerous armed eco -terrorist and said I was, 00:13:32.279 --> 00:13:35.340 you know, I said there's a possibility of me 00:13:35.340 --> 00:13:37.679 causing death and destruction if they came and 00:13:37.679 --> 00:13:39.720 tried to arrest me, which is ridiculous. There's 00:13:39.720 --> 00:13:43.159 nothing in my history that would back that up. 00:13:43.360 --> 00:13:46.460 I've never even struck anybody in anger. So, 00:13:46.460 --> 00:13:50.139 I mean, it's totally ridiculous. But again, when 00:13:50.139 --> 00:13:52.629 governments are decide that they're going to 00:13:52.629 --> 00:13:54.789 be against you they will fabricate everything 00:13:54.789 --> 00:13:58.070 they can. In Canada I've been charged with the 00:13:58.070 --> 00:14:00.629 most ridiculous crimes which we won in the court. 00:14:01.269 --> 00:14:03.789 For instance, the Seal Protection Act. I was 00:14:03.789 --> 00:14:05.529 charged for breaking the Seal Protection Act 00:14:05.529 --> 00:14:07.750 in conspiracy to break the Seal Protection Act. 00:14:08.110 --> 00:14:10.210 And because under the Seal Protection Act, it 00:14:10.210 --> 00:14:12.490 is illegal to approach a seal hunt. It's illegal 00:14:12.490 --> 00:14:15.110 to film or photograph a seal being killed. It's 00:14:15.110 --> 00:14:18.070 illegal to actually be on the ice where seals 00:14:18.070 --> 00:14:20.309 are being killed. And if you break it, they charge 00:14:20.309 --> 00:14:22.330 you under the Seal Protection Act. What makes 00:14:22.330 --> 00:14:24.830 it sound like they're defending the seals, not 00:14:24.830 --> 00:14:27.129 us, should be the Sealing Industry Protection 00:14:27.129 --> 00:14:31.870 Act. And when I was working to drive foreign 00:14:31.870 --> 00:14:34.289 drag trawlers off the Grand Banks in Newfoundland, 00:14:34.610 --> 00:14:37.830 the charge was three counts of conspiracy to 00:14:37.820 --> 00:14:41.220 to commit mischief. What is mischief? That's 00:14:41.220 --> 00:14:43.259 what they get you when there's nothing else to 00:14:43.259 --> 00:14:46.600 do. I was charged with two counts of mischief 00:14:46.600 --> 00:14:48.759 endangering life, one count of mischief endangering 00:14:48.759 --> 00:14:51.200 property. I didn't hurt anybody, and I didn't 00:14:51.200 --> 00:14:53.940 damage any property. But mischief says, you could 00:14:53.940 --> 00:14:57.019 have. And because I could have, there's a possibility 00:14:57.019 --> 00:14:59.600 that I might have. That's what the charge was. 00:15:00.620 --> 00:15:03.139 Well, we went into court. And it was a jury trial 00:15:03.139 --> 00:15:06.820 lasted about two weeks. And my lawyer opened 00:15:06.820 --> 00:15:08.759 up the trial by saying, ladies and gentlemen 00:15:08.759 --> 00:15:10.779 of the jury, we're not going to say we did not 00:15:10.779 --> 00:15:13.639 do what we're charged with, because we did exactly 00:15:13.639 --> 00:15:15.740 what we're charged with. We're proud to have 00:15:15.740 --> 00:15:18.779 done it, and we intend to do it again. And I 00:15:18.779 --> 00:15:21.080 was acquitted because my defense was the UN World 00:15:21.080 --> 00:15:24.259 Charter for Nature, which allows for individuals 00:15:24.259 --> 00:15:29.830 to hold international conservation law. And so 00:15:29.830 --> 00:15:32.610 now when we go up against the krill fishery in 00:15:32.610 --> 00:15:36.169 the Southern Ocean, we're using the new recently 00:15:36.169 --> 00:15:38.169 ratified high seas treaty for the protection 00:15:38.169 --> 00:15:40.149 of biodiversity beyond national jurisdictions. 00:15:40.250 --> 00:15:43.549 So if we get arrested, then we will use that 00:15:43.549 --> 00:15:48.350 treaty as in our defense. What is the role that 00:15:48.350 --> 00:15:52.830 media is playing in building up that repetition 00:15:52.830 --> 00:15:56.450 of, you know, you're an eco terrorist and we 00:15:56.450 --> 00:16:00.190 should fear you. I understand the politics of 00:16:00.190 --> 00:16:04.009 it, but I don't understand why the media is not 00:16:04.009 --> 00:16:07.269 doing their job of being independent and looking 00:16:07.269 --> 00:16:12.269 critically at what's happening and holding accountable 00:16:12.269 --> 00:16:17.549 those powerful people. What do you make of the 00:16:17.549 --> 00:16:20.110 role of the media in all of that? There used 00:16:20.110 --> 00:16:22.850 to be a free media. That is an investigative 00:16:22.850 --> 00:16:27.980 media that sought to unveil truths about things 00:16:27.980 --> 00:16:31.220 that are happening. But very early, I'd say starting 00:16:31.220 --> 00:16:35.340 in the 70s, corporations and governments decided 00:16:35.340 --> 00:16:38.799 that they had to control media to control what 00:16:38.799 --> 00:16:42.360 was being said. Pretty much all mainstream media 00:16:42.360 --> 00:16:46.440 is owned or controlled by corporations and or 00:16:46.440 --> 00:16:49.480 governments. And they do what they're told so 00:16:49.480 --> 00:16:52.360 they're no longer really they're no longer they're 00:16:52.360 --> 00:16:54.279 trying to educate anybody or to give them the 00:16:54.279 --> 00:16:57.179 facts we don't have great reporters like Walter 00:16:57.179 --> 00:16:59.820 Cronkite you know who was incredible back in 00:16:59.820 --> 00:17:02.440 fifty years ago. Now we have people who just 00:17:02.440 --> 00:17:05.460 do what they're told and I mean look at the BBC 00:17:05.460 --> 00:17:08.569 for example basically does whatever the. UK government 00:17:08.569 --> 00:17:10.769 tells them to do it, even supporting the fact 00:17:10.769 --> 00:17:13.150 that if you hold up a sign saying pre -Palestine, 00:17:13.349 --> 00:17:16.569 that means that you deserve 14 years in jail 00:17:16.569 --> 00:17:21.210 for terrorism. That's just insane. But they support 00:17:21.210 --> 00:17:23.710 that there, because the media is pretty much 00:17:23.710 --> 00:17:26.410 controlled. Now, the thing is, is the way around 00:17:26.410 --> 00:17:29.809 that is with social media and everything, which 00:17:29.809 --> 00:17:31.529 they're trying to control through Zuckerberg 00:17:31.529 --> 00:17:34.319 and Musk and everything like that. But we're 00:17:34.319 --> 00:17:36.599 constantly having to find new ways of getting 00:17:36.599 --> 00:17:39.359 that information across. But that social media 00:17:39.359 --> 00:17:43.420 is also in danger of being co -opted and controlled. 00:17:44.200 --> 00:17:46.500 And so it's going to get to the point where nobody 00:17:46.500 --> 00:17:49.019 will have the right to say anything unless that 00:17:49.019 --> 00:17:53.099 is okayed by the powers that be. Talking about 00:17:53.099 --> 00:17:58.299 that, what has, you know, we're in January 2026, 00:17:58.980 --> 00:18:02.099 what has escaped, you know, people's attention 00:18:02.099 --> 00:18:06.539 in 2025, what went under the radar in terms of 00:18:06.539 --> 00:18:10.950 animal rights? Well, I think we're making progress, 00:18:11.450 --> 00:18:14.869 you know, certainly the rise of veganism is something 00:18:14.869 --> 00:18:17.690 to look at. I mean, I remember, you know, 20, 00:18:17.710 --> 00:18:20.329 30, 40, 50 years ago. I mean, the 70s, nobody 00:18:20.329 --> 00:18:23.410 even knew what a vegan was. So, you know, trying 00:18:23.410 --> 00:18:25.569 to find a vegan restaurant, say in Paris, it 00:18:25.569 --> 00:18:29.529 was impossible. But, you know, that's certainly 00:18:29.529 --> 00:18:31.750 there's a lot of growth there. There's a lot 00:18:31.750 --> 00:18:35.130 of evolution there. And a lot of things that 00:18:35.130 --> 00:18:37.869 were acceptable as far as abusive animals back 00:18:37.869 --> 00:18:41.230 then are no longer acceptable. But the numbers 00:18:41.230 --> 00:18:44.289 still increase. We kill about 120 billion animals 00:18:44.289 --> 00:18:47.130 on factory farms every year. It's out of sight 00:18:47.130 --> 00:18:49.509 and it's out of mind. We grind up newborn chicks 00:18:49.509 --> 00:18:52.230 into machines and nobody really gives it much. 00:18:52.460 --> 00:18:56.579 thought. So the animal abuse is still there. 00:18:56.619 --> 00:19:00.380 It's just kept behind closed doors and people 00:19:00.380 --> 00:19:02.400 don't talk about it. They don't want to talk 00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:05.700 about it. They don't want to know how meat or 00:19:05.700 --> 00:19:07.539 things are produced. They just simply don't. 00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:12.839 And so I find it, we live in an extremely hypocritical 00:19:12.839 --> 00:19:16.519 society where, you know, we condemn people for, 00:19:16.559 --> 00:19:18.359 for instance, with Brigid Berto, we condemn her 00:19:18.359 --> 00:19:20.519 because she said something again about gays or 00:19:20.519 --> 00:19:23.470 Islam or something like that. But we ignore the 00:19:23.470 --> 00:19:27.549 good things that she did. But I know, you know, 00:19:27.670 --> 00:19:30.269 gay people, if gay people were to criticize me 00:19:30.269 --> 00:19:32.569 for animal rights, should I condemn all gay people? 00:19:32.609 --> 00:19:35.069 I mean, really, I remember one time I was walking 00:19:35.069 --> 00:19:37.789 in Los Angeles and there was a gay couple and 00:19:37.789 --> 00:19:40.109 they kicked a pigeon. And I said, what do you 00:19:40.109 --> 00:19:42.609 do that for? And they said, well, they spread 00:19:42.609 --> 00:19:44.970 disease. And I said, you know, people spread 00:19:44.970 --> 00:19:47.650 more disease than pigeons do. And they assumed, 00:19:47.650 --> 00:19:50.069 because I said that, that I was talking about 00:19:50.069 --> 00:19:53.799 AIDS. I wasn't. I said, spreading disease. And 00:19:53.799 --> 00:19:56.319 they said, well, they called me, you're homophobic. 00:19:57.339 --> 00:20:00.579 Why? And they said, well, you know, assuming 00:20:00.579 --> 00:20:02.220 that we're spreading disease. I said, I never 00:20:02.220 --> 00:20:04.720 said any such thing. But I said, I will condemn 00:20:04.720 --> 00:20:07.400 you for kicking a pigeon. You know, that doesn't 00:20:07.400 --> 00:20:11.640 mean I hate gay people. But it's just, this is 00:20:11.640 --> 00:20:13.579 the kind of world we live in. If you do something, 00:20:13.900 --> 00:20:15.660 then you're going to be condemned right across 00:20:15.660 --> 00:20:18.319 the board. There's no nuances anymore, really. 00:20:19.019 --> 00:20:21.359 You're either Really good or really bad. It's 00:20:21.359 --> 00:20:24.259 all black. It's all white, you know Yeah, I think 00:20:24.259 --> 00:20:28.200 it's you know what happened the aftermath of 00:20:28.200 --> 00:20:32.680 her dead is pertinent to our conversations about 00:20:32.680 --> 00:20:38.160 media because I Was just shocked by the number 00:20:38.160 --> 00:20:40.900 of articles, you know calling her all sorts of 00:20:40.900 --> 00:20:44.039 names and then I would go and read the articles 00:20:44.039 --> 00:20:49.089 and I was frustrated because they would just 00:20:49.089 --> 00:20:52.569 give you the label, not the context. And, you 00:20:52.569 --> 00:20:55.650 know, I call for a journalistic honesty, give 00:20:55.650 --> 00:20:58.269 us the context, give us the exact quote of what 00:20:58.269 --> 00:21:02.529 she said or an account from her victims. And 00:21:02.529 --> 00:21:06.089 let us decide, you know, what label we should 00:21:06.089 --> 00:21:11.009 put on Brigitte Bardot. But yeah, judging her 00:21:11.009 --> 00:21:14.880 and just making a PR thing about it. I thought 00:21:14.880 --> 00:21:19.500 was just, you know, dishonest. Yeah, in Reunion, 00:21:19.700 --> 00:21:21.619 when they were putting hooks through the noses 00:21:21.619 --> 00:21:23.420 of puppies and dragging them through the water 00:21:23.420 --> 00:21:26.380 to catch sharks, she said that was savage, it 00:21:26.380 --> 00:21:29.380 was barbaric. Well, it was, but she got charged 00:21:29.380 --> 00:21:32.059 for that, for telling the people of Reunion were 00:21:32.059 --> 00:21:34.980 barbarians and savages or whatever. Uh, when 00:21:34.980 --> 00:21:37.839 she attacks, uh, the splitting of the sheep's, 00:21:37.839 --> 00:21:40.480 uh, the throats of sheep, then somehow or other 00:21:40.480 --> 00:21:43.599 that becomes anti -Islamic, you know, because 00:21:43.599 --> 00:21:46.240 of halal and things like this. Uh, you know, 00:21:46.400 --> 00:21:48.720 interesting, by the way, by halal and kosher 00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:52.700 were originally, they were set up as a more humane 00:21:52.700 --> 00:21:55.559 way of killing animals. That was what it originally 00:21:55.559 --> 00:21:58.259 was that. And so he made this rule. The rule 00:21:58.259 --> 00:22:00.740 of law was you have to do it this way to control 00:22:00.740 --> 00:22:03.990 it, to be more humane. But 2000 years later, 00:22:04.089 --> 00:22:07.369 that's no longer the most humane way to do it. 00:22:07.910 --> 00:22:14.410 But now the rule of law has been changed by sort 00:22:14.410 --> 00:22:17.349 of like this, we have to do it because that's 00:22:17.349 --> 00:22:21.609 the rule. there's no changing of it. But the 00:22:21.609 --> 00:22:25.089 spirit of the law is to have a humane kill, which 00:22:25.089 --> 00:22:26.609 first of all, I don't believe in such a thing, 00:22:26.710 --> 00:22:29.450 but anyway, that was the spirit of the law. So 00:22:29.450 --> 00:22:31.589 that got replaced by the rule, which you have 00:22:31.589 --> 00:22:33.250 to do it this way. We don't want to hear anything 00:22:33.250 --> 00:22:35.529 else, this is the way we're going to do it. We 00:22:35.529 --> 00:22:37.690 don't care if it's more cruel, it's just the 00:22:37.690 --> 00:22:38.710 way we're going to do it. This is what the Bible 00:22:38.710 --> 00:22:40.630 says, this is what the Koran says, this is what 00:22:40.630 --> 00:22:43.970 we're going to do. So, you know, I think that's… 00:22:43.660 --> 00:22:46.200 it's fair to criticize that is barbaric because 00:22:46.200 --> 00:22:48.900 it is it's a 2000 year old thing that has no 00:22:48.900 --> 00:22:53.940 reason to be here and uh but again you know a 00:22:53.940 --> 00:22:56.519 lot of people get concerned about the cruelty 00:22:56.519 --> 00:22:59.480 involved in slaughter they got this horrible 00:22:59.480 --> 00:23:01.400 thing called humane slaughter i don't even know 00:23:01.400 --> 00:23:05.400 what that is humane slaughter um all slaughter 00:23:05.400 --> 00:23:08.869 is inhumane You know, there is no justification 00:23:08.869 --> 00:23:12.529 for the killing of any animal by anyone, anywhere 00:23:12.529 --> 00:23:15.849 for any reason. And, uh, all these justifications 00:23:15.849 --> 00:23:19.210 are just unacceptable. I completely agree with 00:23:19.210 --> 00:23:25.289 that. Um, there are many fronts to, you know, 00:23:25.390 --> 00:23:29.069 this animal liberation fight and, you know, reflecting 00:23:29.069 --> 00:23:36.919 back on 2025 and beyond, I think I covered. marine 00:23:36.919 --> 00:23:44.200 animals maybe twice you know I recorded about 00:23:44.200 --> 00:23:47.980 now a hundred something episodes and I only you 00:23:47.980 --> 00:23:53.480 know focused on them maybe two three times and 00:23:53.480 --> 00:23:56.519 you know I feel it's a failure on my part And 00:23:56.519 --> 00:23:59.980 I feel it's a bias that many animal rights activists 00:23:59.980 --> 00:24:02.619 have. We talk a lot about the chickens. It's 00:24:02.619 --> 00:24:05.940 familiar. We've met lots of chickens. We talk 00:24:05.940 --> 00:24:09.339 a lot about land animals, but marine animals, 00:24:09.339 --> 00:24:12.519 you know, they are hidden from us, completely 00:24:12.519 --> 00:24:17.079 hidden. And we don't have much, you know, way 00:24:17.079 --> 00:24:20.920 of relating to them. You know, there is no cute 00:24:20.920 --> 00:24:24.539 picture of. a fish or something of the sort. 00:24:25.180 --> 00:24:27.720 It's always difficult to get support for, say, 00:24:28.000 --> 00:24:31.119 protecting sea cucumbers or urchins or other 00:24:31.119 --> 00:24:33.299 life forms in the ocean, but it's easy if you've 00:24:33.299 --> 00:24:35.660 got cute little baby seals or whales or dolphins, 00:24:35.779 --> 00:24:37.940 even sharks, because sharks are considered, you 00:24:37.940 --> 00:24:42.279 know, sexy, I guess. But it is a difficult thing 00:24:42.279 --> 00:24:45.299 to get people to be concerned about life right 00:24:45.299 --> 00:24:48.619 across the board. To me, there's one plant and 00:24:48.619 --> 00:24:51.839 one group of animals in the ocean which are absolutely, 00:24:51.839 --> 00:24:54.380 totally important for our survival, everybody's 00:24:54.380 --> 00:24:56.980 survival, every species' survival. Phytoplankton. 00:24:57.069 --> 00:24:59.829 which provides 70 % of the oxygen in the air 00:24:59.829 --> 00:25:02.309 we breathe. Since 1950, it's been diminished 00:25:02.309 --> 00:25:05.910 by 40%. And the reason it's been diminished is 00:25:05.910 --> 00:25:07.829 because of the diminishment of whales and dolphins 00:25:07.829 --> 00:25:09.630 and other creatures that provide the nutrients 00:25:09.630 --> 00:25:11.849 for the phytoplankton, that is, the nitrogen, 00:25:12.089 --> 00:25:15.069 the iron, and the magnesium, which comes from 00:25:15.069 --> 00:25:17.369 the feces of these animals, because all of nature 00:25:17.369 --> 00:25:19.809 is interconnected. And the other, of course, 00:25:19.950 --> 00:25:22.789 zoo plankton, which is about foundation of the 00:25:22.789 --> 00:25:26.230 food chain in the ocean. So that one group of 00:25:26.230 --> 00:25:28.609 plant and that one group of animals are absolutely 00:25:28.609 --> 00:25:31.390 essential for the survival of life on this planet. 00:25:31.569 --> 00:25:33.130 But for the most part, people don't know about 00:25:33.130 --> 00:25:34.910 it, don't care about it, and they're not interested. 00:25:36.130 --> 00:25:40.170 Yes, definitely. Marine life is often, you know, 00:25:40.329 --> 00:25:43.549 the pitch is you should care about the environment. 00:25:43.690 --> 00:25:46.009 And so you should, you know, it's an environmental 00:25:46.009 --> 00:25:49.009 thing, basically. And, you know, keeping them 00:25:49.009 --> 00:25:53.900 alive and Um, helping them is all about, uh, 00:25:53.960 --> 00:25:58.240 safekeeping the environment. I did an interview, 00:25:58.240 --> 00:26:01.779 um, a few months ago, we had elections here in 00:26:01.779 --> 00:26:05.599 Canada and I interviewed the, the leader of the 00:26:05.599 --> 00:26:08.700 animal protection party of Canada. And I asked 00:26:08.700 --> 00:26:10.900 her, you know, what do you make of environmentalists? 00:26:11.200 --> 00:26:15.519 Are they allies or enemies of your cause? And 00:26:15.519 --> 00:26:20.710 she said. Most times they're enemies. They don't 00:26:20.710 --> 00:26:25.029 care about the sentience of the animals. They 00:26:25.029 --> 00:26:28.250 care about abstractions and they have some weird 00:26:28.250 --> 00:26:32.150 ideas about destroying certain species because 00:26:32.150 --> 00:26:37.289 they are too dominant in certain ecosystems and 00:26:37.289 --> 00:26:41.829 all of that. What do you make of that conversation? 00:26:44.289 --> 00:26:46.710 There are environmentalists who are concerned 00:26:46.710 --> 00:26:49.930 about animal rights and there are environmentalists 00:26:49.930 --> 00:26:52.650 who don't give a damn I mean there's a lot of 00:26:52.650 --> 00:26:54.730 diversity there when I was a national director 00:26:54.730 --> 00:26:57.670 for the Sierra Club in the US, there's 15 board 00:26:57.670 --> 00:27:01.710 members, and four of us were vegetarian or vegan. 00:27:02.569 --> 00:27:06.170 And the Sierra Club did not want to listen to 00:27:06.170 --> 00:27:08.869 any talk about, you know, protecting animals 00:27:08.869 --> 00:27:11.089 at all, you know, because their main concern 00:27:11.089 --> 00:27:13.470 was it going to alienate all those people who 00:27:13.470 --> 00:27:16.150 like meat and would no longer support them. The 00:27:16.150 --> 00:27:18.630 same thing with hunting. They refused to condemn 00:27:18.630 --> 00:27:21.849 hunting. And I actually resigned from the Sierra 00:27:21.849 --> 00:27:23.829 Club because of that. They had a contest on why 00:27:23.829 --> 00:27:26.930 I like to be a hunter. And I'm going, you know, 00:27:27.230 --> 00:27:30.369 the man who founded the Sierra Club was John 00:27:30.369 --> 00:27:33.990 Muir, was an avid anti -hunter. And so I said, 00:27:34.029 --> 00:27:36.950 this is an insult to the founder of this organization 00:27:36.950 --> 00:27:40.089 that, you know, you're supporting hunting, but 00:27:40.089 --> 00:27:42.210 they're reasoning again, well, we need the hunters 00:27:42.210 --> 00:27:45.170 because we have a big tent and we need the support 00:27:45.170 --> 00:27:48.069 from them. So usually it's all, it's done because 00:27:48.069 --> 00:27:51.130 they're concerned about losing financial support 00:27:51.130 --> 00:27:55.599 really. but you cannot be an environmentalist 00:27:55.599 --> 00:27:59.259 if you're a meat eater. Simply can't be. Meat 00:27:59.259 --> 00:28:03.299 eating, the killing of 120 billion animals every 00:28:03.299 --> 00:28:05.480 year is the single greatest contributing factor 00:28:05.480 --> 00:28:07.859 to greenhouse grass emissions, groundwater pollution, 00:28:08.319 --> 00:28:12.440 and deep dead zones in the ocean. There's more 00:28:12.440 --> 00:28:16.359 so than the transportation industry. The 40 % 00:28:16.359 --> 00:28:18.339 of all of the fish that's taken out of the ocean 00:28:18.339 --> 00:28:22.740 is fed, turned into fish meal and fed to Pigs 00:28:22.740 --> 00:28:24.819 and chickens we have a world now where chickens 00:28:24.819 --> 00:28:27.140 eat more fish than all the seabirds in the ocean 00:28:27.140 --> 00:28:29.599 I mean that's a that's completely a world out 00:28:29.599 --> 00:28:32.819 of out of balance and that we're taking the krill 00:28:32.819 --> 00:28:34.900 out of the southern ocean they took a hundred 00:28:34.900 --> 00:28:37.470 and what six hundred and twenty thousand metric 00:28:37.470 --> 00:28:40.109 tons this year. They want to take 1 .2 million 00:28:40.109 --> 00:28:44.529 metric tons this year without any study as to 00:28:44.529 --> 00:28:47.789 what the impact of that is. Krill is the foundation 00:28:47.789 --> 00:28:51.069 for the survival of whales and penguins, fish 00:28:51.069 --> 00:28:53.349 and sea birds and seals in the southern ocean. 00:28:53.970 --> 00:28:58.559 1 .2 million tons of krill is equal to the amount 00:28:58.559 --> 00:29:01.440 of krill consumed by all of the penguins in the 00:29:01.440 --> 00:29:03.839 southern ocean so we're just taking a year's 00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:06.319 supply of food away from the penguins with this 00:29:06.319 --> 00:29:08.759 and they're going to starve they are starving 00:29:08.759 --> 00:29:11.380 because of this over exploitation which nobody 00:29:11.380 --> 00:29:15.660 seems to really Care about so again it's all 00:29:15.660 --> 00:29:17.980 interlinked you cannot be an environmentalist 00:29:17.980 --> 00:29:20.099 unless you advocate for the rights of animals 00:29:20.099 --> 00:29:22.400 and i'd even go even further because i advocate 00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:24.680 for the rights of nature i think river should 00:29:24.680 --> 00:29:27.259 have rights i think tree should have rights you 00:29:27.259 --> 00:29:29.940 know will they have a red because i'm i just 00:29:29.940 --> 00:29:33.259 wrote a book. call biocentrism. And to me, I 00:29:33.259 --> 00:29:35.299 think that that's what we have to adapt is this 00:29:35.299 --> 00:29:38.200 attitude of biocentrism, as opposed to anthropocentrism. 00:29:39.119 --> 00:29:41.140 Anthropocentrism is this idea that it's all about 00:29:41.140 --> 00:29:43.779 us. This world was created for us, for us to 00:29:43.779 --> 00:29:45.920 do whatever we want. We're the only species that's 00:29:45.920 --> 00:29:48.960 important. Everything else is irrelevant. Biocentrism 00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:51.299 is the understanding that we're connected with 00:29:51.299 --> 00:29:54.160 all other species on this planet and that our 00:29:54.160 --> 00:29:57.420 survival is dependent upon that living in harmony 00:29:57.420 --> 00:29:59.599 with these other species. We don't live in a 00:29:59.599 --> 00:30:01.099 world without bees. We don't live in a world 00:30:01.099 --> 00:30:03.079 without worms or without trees or without fish. 00:30:03.079 --> 00:30:05.160 We simply do not live in that kind of world. 00:30:05.200 --> 00:30:08.119 We wouldn't survive. I got a call a few years 00:30:08.119 --> 00:30:12.500 ago from a reporter from Fox News, and he said, 00:30:12.539 --> 00:30:16.400 at an animal rights conference, did you say that 00:30:16.400 --> 00:30:18.339 bees, trees, worms, whales, and trees are more 00:30:18.339 --> 00:30:20.500 important than people? I said, yes, I said exactly 00:30:20.500 --> 00:30:22.519 that. He said, well, how could you say something 00:30:22.519 --> 00:30:24.859 so outrageous that's so unchristian? I said, 00:30:25.529 --> 00:30:27.789 Well, I said it because they're more important 00:30:27.789 --> 00:30:29.329 than people, and there's a really simple reason 00:30:29.329 --> 00:30:32.349 for that. They can live here without us, but 00:30:32.349 --> 00:30:35.029 we can't live here without them. We need them. 00:30:35.130 --> 00:30:37.450 they don't need us. That makes them ecologically 00:30:37.450 --> 00:30:40.009 far more important than we are. So we got to 00:30:40.009 --> 00:30:42.309 start looking at the world as we're not the dominant 00:30:42.309 --> 00:30:45.509 most important species on the planet. We're a 00:30:45.509 --> 00:30:49.230 citizen species like any other species, and every 00:30:49.230 --> 00:30:51.910 other species has a right to live here. Every 00:30:51.910 --> 00:30:54.890 species within an ecosystem has a role to play 00:30:54.890 --> 00:30:58.529 in upholding the ecological integrity of that 00:30:58.529 --> 00:31:01.299 ecosystem. Here's one of the things they're always 00:31:01.299 --> 00:31:03.299 saying about the seals in Canada, the seals are 00:31:03.299 --> 00:31:05.000 out of control, they're eating all of our fish, 00:31:05.160 --> 00:31:08.500 blah, blah, blah. The population of Harpwood 00:31:08.500 --> 00:31:13.660 seals in, say, 1550 was about 45 million throughout 00:31:13.660 --> 00:31:16.440 the North Atlantic and the Arctic Ocean, 45 million 00:31:16.440 --> 00:31:19.660 seals. Now that number is probably four to five 00:31:19.660 --> 00:31:22.960 million, so they've been reduced to around 10%. 00:31:22.960 --> 00:31:25.640 So how come when there was 45 million of those 00:31:25.640 --> 00:31:29.039 seals, there was no shortage of fish? The fish 00:31:29.039 --> 00:31:31.779 were incredibly abundant, as Jacques Carchet 00:31:31.779 --> 00:31:35.359 and Samuel D. Champlain described how you put 00:31:35.359 --> 00:31:37.180 a basket into the Gulf of St. Lawrence and you 00:31:37.180 --> 00:31:39.099 pick up fish in the basket. I mean, in these 00:31:39.099 --> 00:31:42.019 fish, an average northern cod was about one meter 00:31:42.019 --> 00:31:45.119 long, where now they're about 18 inches. So, 00:31:45.339 --> 00:31:48.759 you know, you need a healthy marine mammal population 00:31:48.759 --> 00:31:51.720 to have a healthy fish population because it's 00:31:51.720 --> 00:31:54.480 a cycle. On the eastern seaboard of Canada, there 00:31:54.480 --> 00:31:58.079 are 750 species that are interconnected with 00:31:58.079 --> 00:32:00.119 each other, and each one complements the other. 00:32:01.000 --> 00:32:03.920 Okay, harp seals eat fish, but what kind of fish 00:32:03.920 --> 00:32:09.740 do they eat? Probably ulacan, halibut, and the 00:32:09.740 --> 00:32:14.789 fish that eat the young cod. So when you lower 00:32:14.789 --> 00:32:19.650 those fish populations, what happens is you increase 00:32:19.650 --> 00:32:22.710 the cod population. So you need to have that 00:32:22.710 --> 00:32:24.650 healthy prey -predator relationship in order 00:32:24.650 --> 00:32:26.950 to help all those species to be healthy right 00:32:26.950 --> 00:32:29.170 across the board. So if you're really interested 00:32:29.170 --> 00:32:31.630 in protecting cod, then you need seals to help 00:32:31.630 --> 00:32:34.589 out there to keep the other fish populations 00:32:34.589 --> 00:32:37.250 from becoming too numerous and then taking over. 00:32:37.869 --> 00:32:43.089 Nature knows how to Every time we try to get 00:32:43.089 --> 00:32:45.369 involved, we screw it up because we don't know 00:32:45.369 --> 00:32:47.869 anything about it. We remove wolves and that 00:32:47.869 --> 00:32:50.150 causes all sorts of problems within the ecosystems. 00:32:50.549 --> 00:32:52.230 We just say, oh, let's put this species here. 00:32:52.450 --> 00:32:54.769 And now it gets out of control and causes even 00:32:54.769 --> 00:32:57.049 more ecological problems. Because when it comes 00:32:57.049 --> 00:32:59.410 to understanding nature, we're total morons. 00:32:59.589 --> 00:33:03.069 We don't know anything about anything. We should 00:33:03.069 --> 00:33:05.730 be listening to indigenous peoples and their 00:33:05.730 --> 00:33:08.170 understanding of the natural world. That's the 00:33:08.170 --> 00:33:09.930 because they look at the world from a biocentric 00:33:09.930 --> 00:33:12.009 point of view. That's where we can learn something. 00:33:13.069 --> 00:33:16.910 But civilization is ecologically very backwards. 00:33:18.890 --> 00:33:23.210 Yes, beautifully said. And, you know, it's a 00:33:23.210 --> 00:33:29.079 form of species suicide. We are committing like 00:33:29.079 --> 00:33:33.900 a mass suicide because we are destroying what 00:33:33.900 --> 00:33:37.359 we need to survive. We are polluting our air 00:33:37.359 --> 00:33:43.680 and water to such enormous levels and then we 00:33:43.680 --> 00:33:48.759 die of all sorts of cancers and we wonder why. 00:33:49.839 --> 00:33:56.779 Well, here's a clue, you know? Okay, I love the 00:33:56.779 --> 00:34:01.240 idea of bio -centrism. You mentioned Christianity. 00:34:02.240 --> 00:34:08.820 What do you make of people's different religious 00:34:08.820 --> 00:34:12.179 traditions and how they come in conflict with 00:34:12.179 --> 00:34:17.780 that vision of the world? I make a point on this 00:34:17.780 --> 00:34:21.809 podcast to invite you know, leaders, religious 00:34:21.809 --> 00:34:24.429 leaders who are vegan and who are making, you 00:34:24.429 --> 00:34:27.090 know, religious arguments for veganism in their 00:34:27.090 --> 00:34:31.670 community. I think that's key to making progress. 00:34:32.449 --> 00:34:36.789 What is your experience on that field? All major 00:34:36.789 --> 00:34:39.829 religions are anthropocentric. That means that 00:34:39.829 --> 00:34:42.070 they all believe with the dominant life form 00:34:42.070 --> 00:34:44.829 that it was all created for us. The world's been 00:34:44.829 --> 00:34:47.380 four billion years old, but 200, you know, 12 00:34:47.380 --> 00:34:49.340 ,000 years ago, somebody said, it was all created 00:34:49.340 --> 00:34:52.300 for us. And how do we know? It's in a book. We 00:34:52.300 --> 00:34:54.760 wrote this book. You know, I call it the goat 00:34:54.760 --> 00:34:57.000 herders guide to the galaxy because these people 00:34:57.000 --> 00:34:58.940 didn't know anything about anything, but they 00:34:58.940 --> 00:35:00.500 decided this is where we're going to tell the 00:35:00.500 --> 00:35:02.980 story. And that, but it completely leaves out 00:35:02.980 --> 00:35:06.980 all other, all other species. And it's all about 00:35:06.980 --> 00:35:09.960 control and dominance over this. And that was 00:35:09.960 --> 00:35:13.059 also led to a hierarchies in our civilizations 00:35:13.059 --> 00:35:15.139 and led to misogyny and all these other things 00:35:15.139 --> 00:35:18.809 came out of that. anthropocentric attitude of 00:35:18.809 --> 00:35:22.929 that. So I don't have any use for any major religion. 00:35:23.429 --> 00:35:26.949 I think biocentrism amongst indigenous people, 00:35:27.150 --> 00:35:29.570 that is something where they understand the relationship 00:35:29.570 --> 00:35:32.650 between us and the natural world. And that's 00:35:32.650 --> 00:35:36.980 where we can learn something. I just see all 00:35:36.980 --> 00:35:39.719 of these superstitions and customs and things 00:35:39.719 --> 00:35:41.760 which are outdated and antiquated, which mean 00:35:41.760 --> 00:35:44.940 nothing at all in a world world, in the world 00:35:44.940 --> 00:35:48.139 natural world. So I don't have much use for religion. 00:35:49.400 --> 00:35:51.719 I mean, I even have a theory. I mean, when you 00:35:51.719 --> 00:35:54.000 really look at it, all the religions get changed 00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:56.980 so much. You create a religion and then 100 years 00:35:56.980 --> 00:35:59.059 later, there's a change, another 100 change and 00:35:59.059 --> 00:36:00.619 everything. And then it has nothing to do with 00:36:00.619 --> 00:36:04.650 where it originally came from. And my own personal 00:36:04.650 --> 00:36:06.809 belief based on the research I've done is that 00:36:06.809 --> 00:36:09.250 the entire Roman Catholic Church was created 00:36:09.250 --> 00:36:12.170 because of one man's LSD experience. Now that 00:36:12.170 --> 00:36:15.530 might sound very strange, but look who founded 00:36:15.530 --> 00:36:17.710 the Catholic Church, Paul, who never met Jesus. 00:36:17.750 --> 00:36:19.730 Paul was the founder of the Catholic Church, 00:36:19.929 --> 00:36:22.829 but Paul was a Jew who was also a Roman citizen, 00:36:23.409 --> 00:36:26.070 a Greek -born Roman citizen who was Jewish, and 00:36:26.070 --> 00:36:28.690 he was given the task of going after and persecuting 00:36:28.690 --> 00:36:31.250 this Christian cult amongst the Jewish community. 00:36:31.769 --> 00:36:34.250 And on the road to Damascus, he's struck down 00:36:34.250 --> 00:36:39.329 and temporarily blinded, sees and speaks to God. 00:36:40.170 --> 00:36:43.570 The only time Paul ever writes about speaking 00:36:43.570 --> 00:36:47.130 to God was on that one experience, and he's a 00:36:47.130 --> 00:36:49.989 Roman citizen. And what did Roman citizens carry 00:36:49.989 --> 00:36:53.250 on their – what did they eat when they were traveling? 00:36:53.670 --> 00:36:56.889 Roman meal. Roman meal is raw grains, and one 00:36:56.889 --> 00:37:01.199 of those grains is rye. And the mold that grows 00:37:01.199 --> 00:37:04.320 on the rye plant is the only natural source of 00:37:04.320 --> 00:37:07.719 lysergic acid. It's called ergot. And the symptoms 00:37:07.719 --> 00:37:11.179 of ergotism are temporary blindness, lameness, 00:37:11.360 --> 00:37:15.400 and delusions. So the man, I wrote a poem about 00:37:15.400 --> 00:37:17.760 it called The High Road to Damascus. The man 00:37:17.760 --> 00:37:21.449 was tripping on LSD when he spoke to God. And 00:37:21.449 --> 00:37:23.150 I can understand that I, you know, I got paid 00:37:23.150 --> 00:37:27.210 actually to take LSD in 1968 and I had a 45 minute 00:37:27.210 --> 00:37:28.909 conversation with an orange, but I didn't go 00:37:28.909 --> 00:37:32.760 out and create a religion on oranges. But it 00:37:32.760 --> 00:37:35.139 all stems from this kind of thing, and it's usually 00:37:35.139 --> 00:37:37.219 because people didn't have an explanation for 00:37:37.219 --> 00:37:40.119 something, so let's make up an explanation. And 00:37:40.119 --> 00:37:41.739 then other people say, oh yeah, it must be true. 00:37:42.000 --> 00:37:43.920 And if you look at the history of the Catholic 00:37:43.920 --> 00:37:45.739 Church, it keeps coming, holy water, that's a 00:37:45.739 --> 00:37:47.360 new invention, that sounds good, let's go with 00:37:47.360 --> 00:37:49.840 that. Oh, infallibility, oh yeah, the pope's 00:37:49.840 --> 00:37:51.880 infallible now, okay, we'll go with that. I mean, 00:37:51.880 --> 00:37:53.960 it didn't come from the beginning. These are 00:37:53.960 --> 00:37:56.159 changes that come, and then they become the law. 00:37:56.880 --> 00:38:00.139 Again, the spirit of the law has now been converted 00:38:00.139 --> 00:38:04.320 to the rule of the law. But I don't have it, 00:38:04.320 --> 00:38:05.900 so I don't really have it. You know, and I've 00:38:05.900 --> 00:38:07.440 read all the books. I mean, I've read the Bible, 00:38:07.519 --> 00:38:10.480 I've read the Talmud, I've read the Koran, I've 00:38:10.480 --> 00:38:12.960 read all the books, including, you know, Lord 00:38:12.960 --> 00:38:15.619 of the Rings. They're all religious books. And, 00:38:15.840 --> 00:38:17.920 you know, that's my conclusion that I come that 00:38:17.920 --> 00:38:20.139 there's nothing in there that is supernatural, 00:38:20.159 --> 00:38:24.639 nothing in there that is divine or really a revelation. 00:38:25.900 --> 00:38:28.940 The true understanding of reality is through 00:38:28.940 --> 00:38:31.960 the observation of nature in the natural world. 00:38:32.579 --> 00:38:37.119 Yeah, I think there is a need in people for some 00:38:37.119 --> 00:38:40.519 kind of spirituality and they don't know where 00:38:40.519 --> 00:38:45.519 to find it outside of mainstream conventional 00:38:45.519 --> 00:38:49.519 religions. Where do you find your spirituality? 00:38:50.179 --> 00:38:52.619 Well, You know i would call myself a bio center 00:38:52.619 --> 00:38:56.159 so i don't have any religious affiliation on 00:38:56.159 --> 00:38:59.800 that to me i feel that i'm part of this planet 00:38:59.800 --> 00:39:02.760 i'm part of the ecosystem i'm part of that living 00:39:02.760 --> 00:39:05.639 diversity of species of plants and animals and 00:39:05.639 --> 00:39:08.360 everything is connected so i feel that that's 00:39:08.360 --> 00:39:10.260 what's my understanding is i don't think that 00:39:10.260 --> 00:39:14.210 there's a need for me to institutionalize that 00:39:14.210 --> 00:39:17.329 and say, okay, we've got to pray this or do this 00:39:17.329 --> 00:39:19.570 or do this little ritual over that or whatever, 00:39:20.050 --> 00:39:22.110 you know, there's no need for that. What you'd 00:39:22.110 --> 00:39:24.909 have to do is just accept the reality, the beauty 00:39:24.909 --> 00:39:27.329 of the natural world and experience it, live 00:39:27.329 --> 00:39:32.070 it and enjoy it. As a sailor, I would have expected 00:39:32.070 --> 00:39:36.789 a few superstitions here and there. Not superstitious 00:39:36.789 --> 00:39:41.369 at all. I think most of the superstitions I've 00:39:41.369 --> 00:39:45.630 come across in my marine experience have all 00:39:45.630 --> 00:39:48.050 just been really stupid. I think the only one 00:39:48.050 --> 00:39:50.369 that ever made any sense was it was bad luck 00:39:50.369 --> 00:39:52.590 to have a woman on board. And the reason for 00:39:52.590 --> 00:39:55.590 that was practical, because usually you had one 00:39:55.590 --> 00:39:59.030 woman and 40 men. That's usually a recipe for 00:39:59.030 --> 00:40:01.050 problems. So I can see where that came from. 00:40:01.590 --> 00:40:04.619 But the solution to that was to have equal numbers 00:40:04.619 --> 00:40:07.679 of men and women and you'd iron that out. But 00:40:07.679 --> 00:40:10.260 that's the only one to me that ever had any practical 00:40:10.260 --> 00:40:13.159 understanding as to why it was bad luck. Well, 00:40:13.239 --> 00:40:19.900 for 2026, I decided to make the resolution of 00:40:19.900 --> 00:40:25.119 covering more what's happening on the seas and 00:40:25.119 --> 00:40:29.480 how to marine life. I think we really need to 00:40:29.480 --> 00:40:33.679 fight this bias and focus more on the oceans 00:40:33.679 --> 00:40:37.880 and I'm happy to start the year with a conversation 00:40:37.880 --> 00:40:42.760 with you. What should we be on the lookout for 00:40:42.760 --> 00:40:47.280 for this coming year in terms of marine life 00:40:47.280 --> 00:40:52.710 and your actions with the um paul watson foundation 00:40:52.710 --> 00:40:54.369 well the one thing i've been saying over and 00:40:54.369 --> 00:40:56.150 over every year the one thing that people should 00:40:56.150 --> 00:40:58.250 be aware of is simply this if the ocean dies 00:40:58.250 --> 00:41:01.730 we die with it so you know we have to take care 00:41:01.730 --> 00:41:04.130 of marine ecosystems or else the ocean is going 00:41:04.130 --> 00:41:06.289 to die it's in the process of dying now every 00:41:06.289 --> 00:41:08.449 single commercial fishery is in a state of collapse 00:41:08.449 --> 00:41:11.449 as i mentioned before the 40 percent in phytoplankton 00:41:11.449 --> 00:41:14.409 uh diminishment now we're seeing a major diminishment 00:41:14.409 --> 00:41:17.070 in zooplankton populations and you know we kill 00:41:17.070 --> 00:41:18.809 100 million sharks a year and then we get all 00:41:18.809 --> 00:41:21.230 upset because five people a year are killed by 00:41:21.230 --> 00:41:23.449 sharks when you consider the 200 million people 00:41:23.449 --> 00:41:25.329 a day go into the ocean and only five people 00:41:25.329 --> 00:41:27.230 are killed every year that's doing pretty good 00:41:27.230 --> 00:41:29.289 number of people killed every year by coca -cola 00:41:29.289 --> 00:41:31.949 machines falling on them is nine so the coca 00:41:31.949 --> 00:41:33.590 -cola machine is actually more dangerous than 00:41:33.590 --> 00:41:35.429 sharks and it's more dangerous to play golf than 00:41:35.429 --> 00:41:37.469 it is to swim in the ocean because more people 00:41:37.469 --> 00:41:39.429 die every year from bee stings and lightning 00:41:39.429 --> 00:41:41.469 strikes on golf courses and die in the ocean 00:41:41.469 --> 00:41:44.110 so it's all just you know, something not to be 00:41:44.110 --> 00:41:46.789 concerned with or afraid of. Accidents happen. 00:41:46.849 --> 00:41:48.570 People get killed by dogs. They get killed by 00:41:48.570 --> 00:41:50.530 horses. But of course, one of the major, aside 00:41:50.530 --> 00:41:52.269 from the mosquito, the biggest killer of human 00:41:52.269 --> 00:41:56.190 beings is other human beings. Yes, definitely. 00:41:57.190 --> 00:42:01.389 I think people have a big fear of the oceans 00:42:01.389 --> 00:42:07.130 and Hollywood has created this fear of sharks. 00:42:08.039 --> 00:42:10.699 although I see, you know, the tourist industry 00:42:10.699 --> 00:42:14.579 and they have reduced sharks to like an experience 00:42:14.579 --> 00:42:17.679 with that cage and all of that. Well, also, you 00:42:17.679 --> 00:42:19.340 know, somebody in Switzerland asked me, well, 00:42:19.400 --> 00:42:21.059 what's the ocean got to do with me? I don't live 00:42:21.059 --> 00:42:23.619 anywhere near the ocean. Well, the fact is that 00:42:23.619 --> 00:42:26.340 we all live near the ocean, because what is the 00:42:26.340 --> 00:42:28.699 ocean? Most people tend to think of it as the 00:42:28.699 --> 00:42:30.639 beach, it's the sea, you know, but it isn't. 00:42:30.920 --> 00:42:33.619 This is the ocean planet. It's the planet ocean. 00:42:33.940 --> 00:42:36.679 And what that means is water. It's in continuous 00:42:36.679 --> 00:42:39.539 circulation. Sometimes it's in the sea, sometimes 00:42:39.539 --> 00:42:41.539 it's locked up in ice, sometimes it's underground, 00:42:41.820 --> 00:42:44.420 sometimes it's in the clouds, and sometimes it's 00:42:44.420 --> 00:42:47.260 in the cell of every plant and animal on the 00:42:47.260 --> 00:42:51.179 planet. flowing constantly through all of those 00:42:51.179 --> 00:42:53.960 mediums. So the water in your body right now 00:42:53.960 --> 00:42:56.260 is once recently in the clouds, once recently 00:42:56.260 --> 00:42:58.380 locked in ice, once in the sea, once underground, 00:42:58.619 --> 00:43:01.599 or was once in the body of anything from a jaguar 00:43:01.599 --> 00:43:06.320 to a tulip. I mean, that means we are the ocean. 00:43:06.519 --> 00:43:10.260 Everything on this planet is the ocean. And the 00:43:10.260 --> 00:43:13.340 water medium connects us with everything else. 00:43:13.599 --> 00:43:15.739 And that's what makes this planet what it is 00:43:15.739 --> 00:43:19.789 and what makes everything truly connected. Beautifully 00:43:19.789 --> 00:43:24.929 said. We mentioned a few times the Paul Watson 00:43:24.929 --> 00:43:30.269 Foundation. Can you explain what's happening 00:43:30.269 --> 00:43:33.050 in terms of Sea Shepherd and the Paul Watson 00:43:33.050 --> 00:43:36.409 Foundation? That's a development I did not pay 00:43:36.409 --> 00:43:39.869 much attention to. I know you're affiliated now 00:43:39.869 --> 00:43:43.550 with the Paul Watson Foundation. I learned that 00:43:43.550 --> 00:43:48.440 from everything that happened on July. So can 00:43:48.440 --> 00:43:52.400 you clarify things for everyone? Well, it's a 00:43:52.400 --> 00:43:55.360 little complicated because I founded the Sea 00:43:55.360 --> 00:43:59.440 Shepherd Society in 1977, almost 50 years ago. 00:44:01.880 --> 00:44:05.059 with a particular purpose of utilizing aggressive 00:44:05.059 --> 00:44:07.719 non -violence to intervene against illegal activities. 00:44:08.239 --> 00:44:11.940 But in 2022, there was a hostile takeover of 00:44:11.940 --> 00:44:14.159 Sea Shepherd. The reason being is we began to 00:44:14.159 --> 00:44:16.380 get bigger and we're bringing in money and everything 00:44:16.380 --> 00:44:18.059 because of whale wars and everything like, you 00:44:18.059 --> 00:44:20.579 know, 12, 15 million dollars a year. And now 00:44:20.579 --> 00:44:23.599 we had people who had nice, comfortable jobs 00:44:23.599 --> 00:44:26.199 with benefits and everything. And I was a threat 00:44:26.199 --> 00:44:28.579 to that because they told me I was too controversial, 00:44:28.619 --> 00:44:30.719 I was too active, I was too confrontational. 00:44:31.239 --> 00:44:33.940 And so they forced me out of the organization. 00:44:35.099 --> 00:44:38.320 But not completely, because I still had the support 00:44:38.320 --> 00:44:41.219 of Sea Shepherd in France, the UK, and Brazil. 00:44:41.579 --> 00:44:45.059 So I am still a director of Sea Shepherd in those 00:44:45.059 --> 00:44:47.860 countries. But because I couldn't utilize, they 00:44:47.860 --> 00:44:49.699 tried to actually sue me to prevent me from even 00:44:49.699 --> 00:44:51.980 using my own name, saying I had no right to use 00:44:51.980 --> 00:44:54.769 my own name. They owned me. And because they 00:44:54.769 --> 00:44:59.869 had filed trademarks, covertly registered trademarks. 00:45:00.130 --> 00:45:02.449 So they own the logos I designed. They own the 00:45:02.449 --> 00:45:08.090 name I created. And that's the law. So I had 00:45:08.090 --> 00:45:10.210 to set up the Captain Paul Watson Foundation 00:45:10.210 --> 00:45:14.329 outside of France and Brazil and the UK changed 00:45:14.329 --> 00:45:16.409 their name to the Captain Paul Watson Foundation. 00:45:17.010 --> 00:45:18.909 Not that I wanted to, but people say, well, how 00:45:18.909 --> 00:45:20.809 come you named it after you? Well, because I 00:45:20.809 --> 00:45:23.469 thought that that would protect it. They couldn't 00:45:23.469 --> 00:45:25.409 steal it from me. They tried to, but they weren't 00:45:25.409 --> 00:45:28.000 able to do it. and that. And it's no different 00:45:28.000 --> 00:45:31.139 than, say, the Jane Goodall Foundation or whatever. 00:45:32.059 --> 00:45:34.420 But, you know, I had to do something to protect 00:45:34.420 --> 00:45:36.260 it. But it's basically it's the same movement. 00:45:36.320 --> 00:45:38.500 We haven't changed. The people who took over 00:45:38.500 --> 00:45:43.940 changed and they subverted perverted our what 00:45:43.940 --> 00:45:46.340 we were set up to do, turning it into something 00:45:46.340 --> 00:45:50.099 it was not and making it a fight. They wanted 00:45:50.099 --> 00:45:52.380 to go mainstream. That's where they went mainstream. 00:45:53.159 --> 00:45:55.800 My organization was never meant to go mainstream. 00:45:56.010 --> 00:45:59.630 It was meant to be there on the high seas, taking 00:45:59.630 --> 00:46:01.369 the risks, doing the things that needed to be 00:46:01.369 --> 00:46:05.730 done. Since that hostile takeover, what is called 00:46:05.730 --> 00:46:08.449 Sea Shepherd Global has done nothing. They go 00:46:08.449 --> 00:46:10.409 out and they take pictures. They talk to governments. 00:46:10.610 --> 00:46:14.349 They pose with politicians. They don't do anything. 00:46:15.929 --> 00:46:19.610 And so it's a real disappointment to me having 00:46:19.610 --> 00:46:21.809 been the founder of that. Now what they're doing 00:46:21.809 --> 00:46:24.170 is they're trying to prevent me from using archival 00:46:24.170 --> 00:46:27.369 footage of my history. saying, so they keep taking 00:46:27.369 --> 00:46:29.929 down things on YouTube or on Facebook, everything 00:46:29.929 --> 00:46:32.530 saying, we own those images. I said, you weren't 00:46:32.530 --> 00:46:34.889 even alive when those images were taken, but 00:46:34.889 --> 00:46:37.250 say we own them. And so this is a world we have 00:46:37.250 --> 00:46:39.710 to deal with where, you know, corporate takeovers, 00:46:40.670 --> 00:46:43.110 hostile corporate takeovers and can control the 00:46:43.110 --> 00:46:47.829 thing the way things go. But we still have I 00:46:47.829 --> 00:46:49.449 mean, Sea Shepherd France, Sea Shepherd Brazil 00:46:49.449 --> 00:46:52.170 still have the passion and the courage and the 00:46:52.170 --> 00:46:53.809 initiative that we've always had. So I'm really 00:46:53.809 --> 00:46:59.289 quite proud of them. Do you think there is a 00:46:59.289 --> 00:47:04.469 big, big fish, fishermen, fish, big fish had 00:47:04.469 --> 00:47:09.590 the role to play in that takeover? Or is this 00:47:09.590 --> 00:47:11.869 just, you know, conspirational thinking? It's 00:47:11.869 --> 00:47:13.909 people, the people who took over people I knew 00:47:13.909 --> 00:47:16.869 for 20 years, people that I thought I trusted, 00:47:17.389 --> 00:47:20.730 but people who now had nice jobs. And now they 00:47:20.730 --> 00:47:24.909 were being, you know, For instance, I went to 00:47:24.909 --> 00:47:27.170 court with him and Alex Cornelison, who's the 00:47:27.170 --> 00:47:30.250 guy who took over, he said to the judges, well, 00:47:30.250 --> 00:47:32.829 we had to remove Paul because we were going to 00:47:32.829 --> 00:47:36.429 lose support from corporations like Allianz Insurance 00:47:36.429 --> 00:47:38.909 or the Dutch Postal Code Lottery because they 00:47:38.909 --> 00:47:41.389 said he was too confrontational. So it was a 00:47:41.389 --> 00:47:44.489 choice between losing the funding or getting 00:47:44.489 --> 00:47:46.650 rid of him. So that's what it was really all 00:47:46.650 --> 00:47:49.510 about, is money. And I said right from the very 00:47:49.510 --> 00:47:52.309 beginning, money is the least important thing 00:47:52.309 --> 00:47:55.550 about Sea Shepherd. What's important is the passion, 00:47:55.670 --> 00:47:58.130 the commitment, and the imagination of the volunteer 00:47:58.130 --> 00:48:03.349 base that we do that. And they said in 2022, 00:48:03.449 --> 00:48:04.849 you know, in a couple of years, everybody will 00:48:04.849 --> 00:48:07.869 forget who Paul Watson was. We'll be the new 00:48:07.869 --> 00:48:10.070 face of Sea Shepherd. They'll forget who he was. 00:48:10.469 --> 00:48:12.769 And so they're pretty upset that I haven't just 00:48:12.769 --> 00:48:16.969 faded away quietly like they wanted me to do. 00:48:16.969 --> 00:48:19.449 I haven't done that. I don't intend to do that. 00:48:23.970 --> 00:48:27.730 loyal to your values and principles, you know, 00:48:27.829 --> 00:48:32.050 in the face of all of that, you know, um, because, 00:48:32.590 --> 00:48:35.250 and how do you take care of your mental health 00:48:35.250 --> 00:48:39.170 too? You know, because your life is a life of 00:48:39.170 --> 00:48:43.670 many challenges and that could have been enough 00:48:43.670 --> 00:48:47.610 for anyone else to break. Well, I've always said, 00:48:47.610 --> 00:48:50.090 you know, it's always something If it isn't something, 00:48:50.329 --> 00:48:52.010 it's something else, but it's always something. 00:48:52.409 --> 00:48:55.769 So there are always challenges to take on. I 00:48:55.769 --> 00:48:59.570 never disappointed because I expect to be disappointed. 00:49:00.090 --> 00:49:02.949 And therefore, that doesn't really bother me. 00:49:03.969 --> 00:49:07.130 I don't have any mental issues over the thing 00:49:07.130 --> 00:49:10.469 because I really don't care. I'm not materialistic. 00:49:11.670 --> 00:49:14.190 So it really doesn't really bother me in that 00:49:14.190 --> 00:49:17.360 respect. I focus on what I have to do. Which 00:49:17.360 --> 00:49:20.119 the campaigns that we do that's my focus on that 00:49:20.119 --> 00:49:23.000 and if they take away this tool Then I'll have 00:49:23.000 --> 00:49:26.159 to go and find another tool, but you know, that's 00:49:26.159 --> 00:49:28.440 all you can really all you can really do But 00:49:28.440 --> 00:49:31.239 I've been doing this now for 50 years. I don't 00:49:31.239 --> 00:49:33.320 believe in retirement. I don't intend to retire 00:49:33.320 --> 00:49:37.099 I don't get tired about it and I'm on that so 00:49:37.099 --> 00:49:39.579 I don't get depressed and I don't get pessimistic 00:49:39.579 --> 00:49:43.170 because I learned many years ago that you have 00:49:43.170 --> 00:49:46.309 no power over the future at all, none. But you 00:49:46.309 --> 00:49:48.710 have absolute power over the present. So what 00:49:48.710 --> 00:49:50.389 you do in the present will define what the future 00:49:50.389 --> 00:49:53.630 will be. So I focus on the present, never on 00:49:53.630 --> 00:49:58.090 the future. Very Buddhist of you. I wouldn't 00:49:58.090 --> 00:49:59.769 say it's Buddhism, because I don't really believe 00:49:59.769 --> 00:50:04.989 that. But I guess what is then your advice for 00:50:04.989 --> 00:50:09.170 activists? You know, my podcast has a mostly 00:50:09.170 --> 00:50:12.369 a base of activists. What do you have to say 00:50:12.369 --> 00:50:14.849 to them? I think that my advice, especially to 00:50:14.849 --> 00:50:16.610 young people, is don't get depressed, don't get 00:50:16.610 --> 00:50:19.670 pessimistic, and again, focus on the future. 00:50:20.030 --> 00:50:22.369 But what you have to understand is each and every 00:50:22.369 --> 00:50:24.230 one of us has the power to change the world. 00:50:24.710 --> 00:50:27.409 And it really means the application of three 00:50:27.409 --> 00:50:30.130 virtues. Passion, be passionate about something. 00:50:30.789 --> 00:50:32.969 Two, the courage to take it on. And three, the 00:50:32.969 --> 00:50:35.570 imagination to come up with the means to take 00:50:35.570 --> 00:50:38.820 it on. And that's what changes the world. Because 00:50:38.820 --> 00:50:40.860 of Diane Fossey, we still have mountain gorillas 00:50:40.860 --> 00:50:42.659 in Rwanda. Look at the work of Jane Goodall. 00:50:43.039 --> 00:50:45.440 Greta Thunberg is another example on that. These 00:50:45.440 --> 00:50:47.059 are people who are changing the world because 00:50:47.059 --> 00:50:50.139 they're not deterred by criticism. They don't 00:50:50.139 --> 00:50:52.840 get depressed. They don't get pessimistic about 00:50:52.840 --> 00:50:56.699 it. But I think you do have to focus. And if 00:50:56.699 --> 00:50:59.719 everybody were to focus on this particular species 00:50:59.719 --> 00:51:02.179 is this particular ecosystem or this particular 00:51:02.179 --> 00:51:04.360 strategy. Even veganism is another means you 00:51:04.360 --> 00:51:07.559 can focus on and focus entirely on that. Don't 00:51:07.559 --> 00:51:10.599 get spread out. Don't get your energies all over 00:51:10.599 --> 00:51:12.800 the place. You know, focus on what you do, because 00:51:12.800 --> 00:51:15.940 people say, well, why do you focus on marine 00:51:15.940 --> 00:51:17.260 wildlife? I said, well, first of all, that's 00:51:17.260 --> 00:51:21.139 pretty big. But I used to, you know, I got involved. 00:51:21.300 --> 00:51:23.820 I spent a year with elephants. I spent a year 00:51:23.820 --> 00:51:25.880 on wolves and everything. But I kind of came 00:51:25.880 --> 00:51:27.880 to the point, you know, I really got to focus. 00:51:28.090 --> 00:51:32.630 on doing one particular thing and that's I decided 00:51:32.630 --> 00:51:36.030 on marine life which again isn't one it's vast 00:51:36.030 --> 00:51:39.460 but still. So right now I'm focusing on real 00:51:39.460 --> 00:51:42.679 threats to the ocean, the krill fishery down 00:51:42.679 --> 00:51:45.539 in the southern ocean, seabed mining, which is 00:51:45.539 --> 00:51:48.480 a major, major problem, overfishing, poaching, 00:51:48.500 --> 00:51:50.340 that kind of thing. 40 % of all the fish that 00:51:50.340 --> 00:51:52.840 are caught are caught illegal. Also trying to 00:51:52.840 --> 00:51:55.519 oppose salmon farming, which is a highly destructive 00:51:55.519 --> 00:51:57.739 industry, which is one of the reasons we're killing 00:51:57.739 --> 00:51:59.900 off the krill in order to provide a cheap protein 00:51:59.900 --> 00:52:03.019 base for the salmon. So there's so many problems 00:52:03.019 --> 00:52:06.260 that we have to have to commit. But you know, 00:52:06.300 --> 00:52:09.019 the strength of an ecosystem is in diversity 00:52:09.019 --> 00:52:12.179 therefore the strength of a movement is in diversity 00:52:12.179 --> 00:52:14.860 and so really doesn't matter how you approach 00:52:14.860 --> 00:52:17.139 that you really have to say what am i good at 00:52:17.139 --> 00:52:19.480 because that approach can be litigation it can 00:52:19.480 --> 00:52:23.159 be education it can be a legislation it can be 00:52:23.159 --> 00:52:26.760 activism it can be media it doesn't matter as 00:52:26.760 --> 00:52:29.400 long as you're good at it and you can apply that 00:52:29.400 --> 00:52:33.099 what you're good at towards making a change just 00:52:33.099 --> 00:52:37.920 out of curiosity Going back to politics, what 00:52:37.920 --> 00:52:43.000 did you make of those Trump comments of owning 00:52:43.000 --> 00:52:51.599 Greenland? Trump's an idiot. But again, here's 00:52:51.599 --> 00:52:53.820 the one thing about Trump that's different than 00:52:53.820 --> 00:52:56.420 pretty much all other political leaders, including 00:52:56.420 --> 00:53:00.559 Carney in Canada. Trump's honest. He says what 00:53:00.559 --> 00:53:03.820 they all think. They all want to do what he's 00:53:03.820 --> 00:53:06.969 doing. and that, but he just does it. They don't 00:53:06.969 --> 00:53:10.429 believe in addressing climate change. He just 00:53:10.429 --> 00:53:12.289 says, I don't believe in addressing climate change. 00:53:12.389 --> 00:53:13.869 Do you think Carney believes in it? He doesn't. 00:53:13.909 --> 00:53:15.250 He's not going to do anything. He was when he 00:53:15.250 --> 00:53:17.090 was president of the Bank of England. He was 00:53:17.090 --> 00:53:18.809 very outspoken about it. But as soon as he became 00:53:18.809 --> 00:53:21.489 prime minister, complete about Faisal on that, 00:53:21.829 --> 00:53:25.409 because it's not possible for any world leader 00:53:25.409 --> 00:53:28.340 to address issues like climate change because 00:53:28.340 --> 00:53:30.579 any decision they make is going to be political 00:53:30.579 --> 00:53:33.880 suicide because we live in a political Reality 00:53:33.880 --> 00:53:36.820 or an economic political reality that you cannot 00:53:36.820 --> 00:53:40.099 change the course of that ship without Having 00:53:40.099 --> 00:53:42.440 a mutiny of the people who support the operation 00:53:42.440 --> 00:53:45.360 that ship against you You're gonna piss off the 00:53:45.360 --> 00:53:47.480 oil companies You got piss off the banks and 00:53:47.480 --> 00:53:48.760 they're gonna live and you're not gonna have 00:53:48.760 --> 00:53:50.579 their support and therefore you're out the window 00:53:50.579 --> 00:53:54.239 You know as far as being effective anymore, so 00:53:54.239 --> 00:53:57.159 no solution will ever come through government. 00:53:57.860 --> 00:54:00.340 Never has, never will. Slavery wasn't ended by 00:54:00.340 --> 00:54:02.739 a government, it was ended by the, you know, 00:54:02.860 --> 00:54:05.039 the passion of Wilberforce and Douglas. Women 00:54:05.039 --> 00:54:06.780 didn't get the right to vote because of the U 00:54:06.780 --> 00:54:08.099 .S. government, and for instance, they got the 00:54:08.099 --> 00:54:09.860 right to vote because of the suffragettes who 00:54:09.860 --> 00:54:12.340 had to get, you know, were bleeding in the streets 00:54:12.340 --> 00:54:14.340 and thrown into jails and everything to get it. 00:54:14.460 --> 00:54:16.059 And by the way, when they did get the right to 00:54:16.059 --> 00:54:19.260 vote, it was that 21st Amendment was, 20th Amendment 00:54:19.260 --> 00:54:21.840 was one of those, but it was signed by Woodrow 00:54:21.840 --> 00:54:24.170 Wilson, the President of the United States. He 00:54:24.170 --> 00:54:26.309 was their main opponent. He was totally opposed 00:54:26.309 --> 00:54:28.070 to women getting the right to vote, but he gets 00:54:28.070 --> 00:54:29.809 to sign it. Now, history gives him the credit 00:54:29.809 --> 00:54:31.690 for giving women the right to vote. You know, 00:54:31.929 --> 00:54:34.190 that's how politicians are good at taking credit, 00:54:34.550 --> 00:54:37.349 but people are what get things done, and all 00:54:37.349 --> 00:54:40.940 social movements are driven by... by individuals. 00:54:41.119 --> 00:54:43.599 Now here's the other thing. You don't need 100 00:54:43.599 --> 00:54:45.780 % of the people on your side to create a movement. 00:54:46.440 --> 00:54:48.860 Movements change the world. You just have to 00:54:48.860 --> 00:54:52.199 create a movement, and all you need is 7%. 7%. 00:54:52.199 --> 00:54:54.260 That's the French Revolution, American Revolution, 00:54:54.420 --> 00:54:57.380 whatever. 7%. And you've got yourself a movement. 00:54:57.769 --> 00:55:00.349 But we're a long ways from 7 % right now. There's 00:55:00.349 --> 00:55:03.010 more subscribers to Warcraft than there are active 00:55:03.010 --> 00:55:05.090 environmentalists or vegetarians in the world, 00:55:05.090 --> 00:55:07.590 you know. So we still got a long ways to go, 00:55:07.829 --> 00:55:09.570 education -wise. But that's what we have to strive 00:55:09.570 --> 00:55:13.429 for. That's 7%. Not 100%. We'll never get 100%, 00:55:13.429 --> 00:55:18.190 because 93 % of human beings are just fucking 00:55:18.190 --> 00:55:20.369 stupid. You know, they're not going to go anywhere. 00:55:20.929 --> 00:55:23.309 They just go along. All they care about is, am 00:55:23.309 --> 00:55:25.150 I going to get paid? Am I going to have any benefits? 00:55:25.250 --> 00:55:27.210 Can I watch television? Can I play that video 00:55:27.210 --> 00:55:30.650 game? This is what their primary concern is. 00:55:30.710 --> 00:55:32.690 And that's a reality, unfortunately. That is 00:55:32.690 --> 00:55:35.090 the reality. People are the problem. You know, 00:55:35.150 --> 00:55:37.489 when people say, well, you know, Brigid Bardot 00:55:37.489 --> 00:55:39.570 hated people. Yeah, why? She had every reason 00:55:39.570 --> 00:55:43.489 to be. She was witness to what they do. The incredible 00:55:43.489 --> 00:55:47.539 inhumane perversions of the human. species are 00:55:47.539 --> 00:55:50.500 enough to turn anybody off of people. So misanthropic 00:55:50.500 --> 00:55:52.860 people, that's the reason they're misanthropic. 00:55:53.079 --> 00:55:54.739 Now here's the interesting thing about misanthropic 00:55:54.739 --> 00:55:57.599 people, because I'm very misanthropic, is I like 00:55:57.599 --> 00:55:59.880 people individually, once I get to know them. 00:56:00.199 --> 00:56:03.340 But as a species, they're deplorable, absolutely 00:56:03.340 --> 00:56:05.320 deplorable. I mean, just look at the history 00:56:05.320 --> 00:56:07.599 of what we do. I mean, the ultimate insanity 00:56:07.599 --> 00:56:10.579 on this planet is war. I mean, what kind of idiot 00:56:10.579 --> 00:56:12.719 goes into a trench and shoots at somebody else 00:56:12.719 --> 00:56:16.289 who they don't even know just to So we can gain 00:56:16.289 --> 00:56:18.889 territory for somebody you don't know who decides 00:56:18.889 --> 00:56:21.489 to give you the orders to do it. I mean, it's 00:56:21.489 --> 00:56:23.409 ridiculous. Hundreds of millions of people dying 00:56:23.409 --> 00:56:27.210 in stupid wars for stupid reasons. That's insanity. 00:56:27.670 --> 00:56:31.409 Absolutely. And so and again, anthropocentrism 00:56:31.409 --> 00:56:36.170 is the reason behind that. A few words about 00:56:36.170 --> 00:56:42.300 that diversity. I think in the past year, I've 00:56:42.300 --> 00:56:44.360 seen at least if you're connected with social 00:56:44.360 --> 00:56:48.400 media lots of infighting in the animal rights, 00:56:48.400 --> 00:56:54.380 you know community vegan community and About 00:56:54.380 --> 00:56:57.460 nothing absolutely not nothing, you know, it's 00:56:57.460 --> 00:57:01.139 just details about certain positions and who 00:57:01.139 --> 00:57:06.380 the people are exactly and So much energy spent 00:57:06.380 --> 00:57:13.280 on on those little fights And it felt very discouraging 00:57:13.280 --> 00:57:17.440 and it's a trend of not tolerating different 00:57:17.440 --> 00:57:21.340 opinions or different personalities or not being 00:57:21.340 --> 00:57:25.840 able to work with people who have different belief 00:57:25.840 --> 00:57:29.019 systems but do agree with you that we should 00:57:29.019 --> 00:57:33.280 not be killing innocent sentient creatures left 00:57:33.280 --> 00:57:37.760 and right. What do you make of all that dissension 00:57:37.760 --> 00:57:41.500 in the community? That's human nature. It's all 00:57:41.500 --> 00:57:43.840 about competitive purism. You know, I'm a better 00:57:43.840 --> 00:57:45.760 human being than you are because I do this and 00:57:45.760 --> 00:57:48.039 you don't do that or something like that. I mean, 00:57:48.139 --> 00:57:51.199 I saw these comments. Oh, Bridger Bardo, she's 00:57:51.199 --> 00:57:54.059 a vegetarian. She wasn't a vegan. So what? You 00:57:54.059 --> 00:57:57.400 know, who cares? I mean, you know, go after people 00:57:57.400 --> 00:58:01.039 who are eating meat, you know, forget about that. 00:58:01.239 --> 00:58:03.820 Or this person wasn't a good vegan as this person 00:58:03.820 --> 00:58:06.019 was a good vegan. That vegan restaurant, you 00:58:06.019 --> 00:58:07.619 know, they served this meal which, you know, 00:58:07.679 --> 00:58:09.860 was actually made in the same place where such 00:58:09.860 --> 00:58:11.679 and such. I mean, it's just bullshit, really. 00:58:11.780 --> 00:58:13.820 It's total. You know, just people need to be 00:58:13.820 --> 00:58:17.340 more tolerant. Movements have an incredible capacity 00:58:17.340 --> 00:58:20.059 for self -destruction through infighting based 00:58:20.059 --> 00:58:23.559 on the most trivial of reasons on that. You know, 00:58:23.579 --> 00:58:27.139 I see vegans attacking vegetarians. Why? Makes 00:58:27.139 --> 00:58:31.139 no sense, you know. So, you know, I see vegans 00:58:31.139 --> 00:58:33.960 attacking other vegans because you're not a vegan 00:58:33.960 --> 00:58:36.739 for the right reason. What's the right reason? 00:58:36.820 --> 00:58:39.000 Then they go lay out their reasons. I once wrote 00:58:39.000 --> 00:58:41.139 a little post called 50 Shades of Veganism, you 00:58:41.139 --> 00:58:43.159 know, vegans who do this, vegans who do that. 00:58:43.360 --> 00:58:45.300 I'm a vegan because my girlfriend's a vegan. 00:58:45.539 --> 00:58:47.800 That kind of stuff. All sorts of reasons for 00:58:47.800 --> 00:58:50.079 them being vegan. But here's the ultimate, the 00:58:50.079 --> 00:58:54.670 bottom line. It doesn't matter. Every time anybody 00:58:54.670 --> 00:58:57.210 does something that results in an animal not 00:58:57.210 --> 00:59:00.969 being abused and killed is a victory. So if somebody 00:59:00.969 --> 00:59:04.170 eats meat on one day a week, that means that 00:59:04.170 --> 00:59:08.309 six days a week that those animals were spared 00:59:08.309 --> 00:59:11.670 from the destruction that they were causing. 00:59:12.150 --> 00:59:14.869 Let's embrace that and not turn these people 00:59:14.869 --> 00:59:20.699 off. My ships have been there vegetarian from 00:59:20.699 --> 00:59:23.059 nineteen eighty to two thousand and from two 00:59:23.059 --> 00:59:26.639 thousand onwards are vegan and nobody you don't 00:59:26.639 --> 00:59:29.460 have to be a vegan to be on my crew. But you 00:59:29.460 --> 00:59:31.500 have to be a vegan be on the crew because that's 00:59:31.500 --> 00:59:34.500 all you can eat because no other choice and so 00:59:34.500 --> 00:59:37.059 what we do is we introduce people to veganism 00:59:37.059 --> 00:59:40.389 through experience. And they suddenly, after 00:59:40.389 --> 00:59:42.710 three months at sea, they discovered, oh, I didn't 00:59:42.710 --> 00:59:45.909 die, you know? Oh, and I left the ship healthier 00:59:45.909 --> 00:59:49.070 than when I came on. That's a learning experience 00:59:49.070 --> 00:59:51.349 and everything. But the one thing that people 00:59:51.349 --> 00:59:54.550 do not like is proselytizing, you know? It's 00:59:54.550 --> 00:59:56.809 like Jehovah Witnesses on the door. Have you 00:59:56.809 --> 00:59:58.610 met Jesus? No, and I don't want to, that kind 00:59:58.610 --> 01:00:01.610 of… But you know, but it's the same with veganism. 01:00:01.610 --> 01:00:05.110 You can't preach this stuff by making people 01:00:05.110 --> 01:00:08.610 ashamed and guilty for what they do. You have 01:00:08.610 --> 01:00:12.050 to encourage them and offer real examples and 01:00:12.050 --> 01:00:15.650 experiences to have them make their choice To 01:00:15.650 --> 01:00:18.449 do that, you know, and that's what I found on 01:00:18.449 --> 01:00:21.070 my ship people who are complete meat eaters left 01:00:21.070 --> 01:00:24.130 the ships Vegan because they realized they didn't 01:00:24.130 --> 01:00:28.630 die and they were healthier and I guess One last 01:00:28.630 --> 01:00:34.590 question about you know politics How should people 01:00:34.590 --> 01:00:39.570 interact or look at their government? And not 01:00:39.570 --> 01:00:43.989 any people, vegans, you know, you mentioned how, 01:00:43.989 --> 01:00:46.889 you know, it's not governments that make progress. 01:00:47.130 --> 01:00:51.010 I do agree with that. But people are more and 01:00:51.010 --> 01:00:55.289 more reliant on their government. When the pandemic 01:00:55.289 --> 01:00:59.420 happened, I was kind of disappointed to see how 01:00:59.420 --> 01:01:02.860 many people were ready to, you know, snitch on 01:01:02.860 --> 01:01:05.920 their neighbors because they were having a gathering 01:01:05.920 --> 01:01:09.460 or, um, you know, not, I don't know, putting 01:01:09.460 --> 01:01:13.679 their mask on or something like that, um, to 01:01:13.679 --> 01:01:17.320 their government, you know, and, um, you see 01:01:17.320 --> 01:01:20.739 that with social media in, uh, places like the 01:01:20.739 --> 01:01:25.119 UK, you know, people reporting others, uh, their 01:01:25.440 --> 01:01:30.579 neighbors because they made some distasteful 01:01:30.579 --> 01:01:36.579 posts on their Facebook. And it's just, you know, 01:01:36.760 --> 01:01:41.739 it feels very much like a... 1984? Yes, yes. 01:01:42.480 --> 01:01:46.800 It's a very Orwellian world. What do you make 01:01:46.800 --> 01:01:49.800 of that? Well, like I said, I don't think much 01:01:49.800 --> 01:01:51.659 gets accomplished with government with one exception 01:01:51.659 --> 01:01:53.639 local governments and municipal governments That's 01:01:53.639 --> 01:01:55.179 where things actually can make a difference. 01:01:55.179 --> 01:01:58.579 There are changes on the local level for instance 01:01:58.579 --> 01:02:01.420 in Nice in France, you know that it was the mayor 01:02:01.420 --> 01:02:05.219 who set up the you know the the marine protection 01:02:05.219 --> 01:02:08.940 areas off outside of the city in that and uh 01:02:08.940 --> 01:02:11.260 i i think that real changes can be made at that 01:02:11.260 --> 01:02:13.360 level when you get into higher governments like 01:02:13.360 --> 01:02:16.159 provincial or federal or whatever then you get 01:02:16.159 --> 01:02:20.780 into so many conflicting um ideas and it's now 01:02:20.780 --> 01:02:23.280 becomes a fight over whose idea is going to be 01:02:23.280 --> 01:02:25.179 victorious and everything and they just waste 01:02:25.179 --> 01:02:27.440 all of their time just fighting over that whole 01:02:27.440 --> 01:02:30.239 thing so very little actually gets decided on 01:02:30.239 --> 01:02:34.219 that. And then what happens is lobbies like the 01:02:34.219 --> 01:02:36.539 Israeli lobby or the oil lobby comes in and tells 01:02:36.539 --> 01:02:37.699 people, this is the way you're going to vote 01:02:37.699 --> 01:02:39.440 or else you're not going to get our support. 01:02:39.460 --> 01:02:40.639 And if you don't get our support, you're not 01:02:40.639 --> 01:02:43.219 going to be in power. So basically, I think Mark 01:02:43.219 --> 01:02:45.619 Twain once described the US Congress as the parliament 01:02:45.619 --> 01:02:51.159 of whores. Everybody's bought on that. So, so 01:02:51.159 --> 01:02:52.619 I don't think anything can be accomplished on 01:02:52.619 --> 01:02:54.699 those levels, but I do believe I still feel that 01:02:54.699 --> 01:02:58.340 on a local level, in cities and towns that government 01:02:58.340 --> 01:03:01.340 can make a difference there. Yeah, cheers to 01:03:01.340 --> 01:03:04.119 that. I'm all about, you know, decentralization 01:03:04.119 --> 01:03:08.500 of powers, giving that power back to the people 01:03:08.500 --> 01:03:12.980 directly. And also, yes, I'm for independent 01:03:12.980 --> 01:03:16.579 media. That's why I launched this podcast, Paul. 01:03:16.840 --> 01:03:21.719 This has been truly a pleasure. I learned a lot 01:03:21.719 --> 01:03:24.659 from this conversation. Did you want to add something 01:03:24.659 --> 01:03:28.019 before we stop the recording? I don't know. I 01:03:28.019 --> 01:03:29.360 think we covered everything. Is there anything 01:03:29.360 --> 01:03:32.639 you think we missed? No, I think, well, I would 01:03:32.639 --> 01:03:36.239 invite people to donate to the Captain Paul Watson 01:03:36.239 --> 01:03:40.239 Foundation. I think it's a worthy cause led by 01:03:40.239 --> 01:03:46.059 a man who is loyal to his values and who is also 01:03:46.059 --> 01:03:49.079 transparent about them. I think, you know, often 01:03:49.079 --> 01:03:54.480 organizations are behind the veil of, you know, 01:03:54.599 --> 01:03:56.960 darkness, you don't know who are those people 01:03:56.960 --> 01:04:02.019 behind that brand. But I like to organizations 01:04:02.019 --> 01:04:04.800 that are open about their staff, you know, here 01:04:04.800 --> 01:04:09.199 are our people and here's what we believe and 01:04:09.199 --> 01:04:12.920 support us if you feel inspired to you. Thank 01:04:12.920 --> 01:04:17.530 you. So Paul, again, thank you so much for all 01:04:17.530 --> 01:04:21.929 of your work and for having accepted my invitation. 01:04:22.349 --> 01:04:24.449 Again, this has been a pleasure. Well, you're 01:04:24.449 --> 01:04:26.429 welcome. Well, thank you very much. Thank you 01:04:26.429 --> 01:04:29.429 everyone for listening. I kindly invite you to 01:04:29.429 --> 01:04:31.750 share this podcast with the vegans you know. 01:04:32.110 --> 01:04:36.190 Let's encourage more people to take action. Again, 01:04:36.210 --> 01:04:39.090 thank you so much for caring and I will see you 01:04:39.090 --> 01:04:45.199 next Tuesday for a new episode. Qu 'il le crue 01:04:45.199 --> 01:04:49.860 déplore la perte de l 'été Qui depuis s 'en est 01:04:49.860 --> 01:04:57.780 allé On a rangé les vacances Dans des valises 01:04:57.780 --> 01:05:03.159 en carton Et c 'est triste quand on pense à la 01:05:03.159 --> 01:05:09.440 saison Du soleil et des chansons Pourtant je 01:05:09.440 --> 01:05:13.510 sais bien l 'année prochaine Everything will 01:05:13.510 --> 01:05:18.590 bloom again, we will come back But in the meantime, 01:05:18.789 --> 01:05:20.110 I am in pain