WEBVTT 00:00:00.300 --> 00:00:03.359 Welcome to The Vegan Report, my name is Ryan 00:00:03.359 --> 00:00:07.599 and today we travel to Lebanon to meet an amazing 00:00:07.599 --> 00:00:11.359 animal rights activist who is harnessing the 00:00:11.359 --> 00:00:15.160 power of social media to spread the vegan message 00:00:15.160 --> 00:00:19.079 across the Arab world. Her name is Maya Kawas, 00:00:19.579 --> 00:00:22.920 she is a Muay Thai fighter and a journalist with 00:00:22.920 --> 00:00:27.300 over 300 ,000 followers on Instagram. We discussed 00:00:27.300 --> 00:00:31.399 her most recent viral video and the crazy reactions 00:00:31.399 --> 00:00:35.079 it got from across the Middle East, the gender 00:00:35.079 --> 00:00:38.880 dynamics in Arab cultures, the beginning of her 00:00:38.880 --> 00:00:42.179 vegan journey when her friend was sacrificed 00:00:42.179 --> 00:00:46.320 for a religious holiday, and much more. Link 00:00:46.320 --> 00:00:49.890 in the description to connect with Maya. This 00:00:49.890 --> 00:00:54.950 is also the last episode of 2025. We end this 00:00:54.950 --> 00:00:58.250 year on a good note with an inspiring voice. 00:00:59.090 --> 00:01:02.450 Wow, what a year this has been, what an adventure. 00:01:03.130 --> 00:01:06.750 Thank you so much for tuning in every week, for 00:01:06.750 --> 00:01:09.909 leaving 5 star reviews, for sharing the show 00:01:09.909 --> 00:01:13.489 around, and just showing your support consistently. 00:01:14.370 --> 00:01:17.969 I wish you happy holidays, take care of yourself. 00:01:18.299 --> 00:01:22.040 And I will see you in January with more thought 00:01:22.040 --> 00:01:25.780 -provoking, insightful and caring conversations. 00:01:46.359 --> 00:01:49.560 I wanted to start the conversation with kind 00:01:49.560 --> 00:01:53.700 of a provocative question. I welcomed not too 00:01:53.700 --> 00:01:57.620 long ago Sarah Abbas on the show, and she's the 00:01:57.620 --> 00:02:02.079 founder of Green Islam. She tries to make the 00:02:02.079 --> 00:02:06.239 Islamic argument for veganism. And when I posted 00:02:06.239 --> 00:02:10.159 our video, our episode, the episode we recorded 00:02:10.159 --> 00:02:14.539 together on Reddit, I got some surprising reactions 00:02:14.539 --> 00:02:18.699 of people saying that since she was a woman, 00:02:19.319 --> 00:02:22.360 she could not, you know, advocate effectively 00:02:22.360 --> 00:02:25.800 in the Arab world, in the Muslim world or in 00:02:25.800 --> 00:02:29.120 the Middle East. What do you make of that reaction? 00:02:30.020 --> 00:02:33.120 Well, Lebanon is a country in the Middle East 00:02:33.120 --> 00:02:37.319 and I was born and raised in Lebanon. Sarah Abbas 00:02:37.319 --> 00:02:41.310 from Lebanon. No, I think she's from Pakistan, 00:02:41.389 --> 00:02:48.150 but she is Canadian. Well, sadly, there are still 00:02:48.150 --> 00:02:52.129 countries in the Middle East that are misogynistic. 00:02:53.629 --> 00:02:57.669 And women rights are not very common, unfortunately. 00:02:59.129 --> 00:03:04.449 Well, as a Lebanese person in Lebanon, we have 00:03:04.449 --> 00:03:07.849 women rights in an Arab country such as Lebanon. 00:03:08.280 --> 00:03:12.860 And women are actually really powerful in Lebanon. 00:03:13.840 --> 00:03:16.759 And they are very brave. They speak up. They 00:03:16.759 --> 00:03:19.500 are in politics. They are involved on television, 00:03:19.639 --> 00:03:24.219 on programs. And they are even, you can say, 00:03:24.379 --> 00:03:27.599 even stronger than the men here in Lebanon. Women 00:03:27.599 --> 00:03:30.939 are very respected in Lebanon. As a Lebanese 00:03:30.939 --> 00:03:36.580 person, I'm speaking for Lebanon. It's very sad 00:03:36.580 --> 00:03:39.800 that there are still countries where misogyny 00:03:39.800 --> 00:03:47.840 prevails. And I think this is like a problem 00:03:47.840 --> 00:03:53.659 in the culture. You know, some cultures did not 00:03:53.659 --> 00:03:58.319 evolve. And some cultures evolve, but it's not 00:03:58.319 --> 00:04:04.719 something like necessary in the Arab world. Lebanon 00:04:04.719 --> 00:04:10.460 evolved and the women are very free here. Yes, 00:04:10.560 --> 00:04:15.620 I do agree that we should not generalize and 00:04:15.620 --> 00:04:19.620 that the Arab world is very complex and there 00:04:19.620 --> 00:04:21.800 are different realities, different countries 00:04:21.800 --> 00:04:26.079 with different cultures. So yes, it is important 00:04:26.079 --> 00:04:30.100 not to generalize. What about your activism? 00:04:30.220 --> 00:04:34.600 So you are an outspoken vegan activist. in Lebanon. 00:04:35.600 --> 00:04:40.879 Did you receive any pushback or bad faith opposition 00:04:40.879 --> 00:04:45.779 because of your gender? Never. No. In Lebanon, 00:04:46.079 --> 00:04:49.579 if you're a woman, you're more likely to be chosen 00:04:49.579 --> 00:04:57.519 for job opportunities. And women in Lebanon are 00:04:57.519 --> 00:05:03.310 mostly on TV and on social media. Women here 00:05:03.310 --> 00:05:07.910 are respected and they have a voice. Of course, 00:05:08.009 --> 00:05:10.589 there's misogyny everywhere. And of course, there 00:05:10.589 --> 00:05:15.589 are a minority of misogynists who are trying 00:05:15.589 --> 00:05:20.290 to oppress women and to hide their voices, but 00:05:20.290 --> 00:05:23.189 they are not prevailing. No, they're not winning. 00:05:24.670 --> 00:05:27.389 The women here in Lebanon are winning. And as 00:05:27.389 --> 00:05:32.560 a woman myself, I never suffered from Misogyny. 00:05:32.720 --> 00:05:37.459 No, never. Here I have my own car. I go whatever 00:05:37.459 --> 00:05:42.199 I want. I come back whenever I want. I do whatever 00:05:42.199 --> 00:05:48.079 I want. My parents respect my decisions and they 00:05:48.079 --> 00:05:51.420 give me their freedom as every parent should. 00:05:53.279 --> 00:05:56.379 And personally, I never experienced any kind 00:05:56.379 --> 00:05:59.660 of oppression. or losing opportunities because 00:05:59.660 --> 00:06:03.199 of my gender, especially in a country like Lebanon, 00:06:03.560 --> 00:06:07.959 I am actually happy that I was in a Middle Eastern 00:06:07.959 --> 00:06:11.720 country like Lebanon, born and raised, because 00:06:11.720 --> 00:06:14.139 not everyone is that lucky in the Middle East. 00:06:14.660 --> 00:06:17.819 Now, tell me what's happening exactly in terms 00:06:17.819 --> 00:06:21.040 of veganism and the vegan movement in Lebanon, 00:06:21.040 --> 00:06:24.800 because I feel like there's so much vegan momentum 00:06:24.800 --> 00:06:27.879 there. Of course, there's, you know, Lebanese 00:06:27.879 --> 00:06:31.779 vegans, the group. There's George Hayek and his 00:06:31.779 --> 00:06:34.420 hospital, which is the first vegan hospital in 00:06:34.420 --> 00:06:38.220 the world. And there's you and so many other 00:06:38.220 --> 00:06:42.160 influencers. I think that the Middle East vegan 00:06:42.160 --> 00:06:46.100 society is based in Lebanon. And so what's happening 00:06:46.100 --> 00:06:49.759 and why is there this explosion of veganism in 00:06:49.759 --> 00:06:54.759 Lebanon? Well, first of all, George Hayek is 00:06:54.759 --> 00:06:58.430 an amazing friend. and he is the owner of Lebanese 00:06:58.430 --> 00:07:00.930 Vegans and the first vegan hospital in the world, 00:07:01.029 --> 00:07:05.370 Hospital Hayek. And also Middle East Vegan Society 00:07:05.370 --> 00:07:09.230 is founded by Sab Alex, which a lot of people 00:07:09.230 --> 00:07:13.230 know he is Lebanese, Lebanese -Armenian. The 00:07:13.230 --> 00:07:16.129 nice thing about Lebanon is that you can say 00:07:16.129 --> 00:07:19.750 90 % of our food in Lebanon is accidentally vegan. 00:07:20.230 --> 00:07:24.149 Like everyone here eats vegan without realizing 00:07:24.149 --> 00:07:27.589 that this is vegan food. Like the hummus, the 00:07:27.589 --> 00:07:31.629 tabbouleh, the fattoush, the potatoes, the muhammara, 00:07:31.949 --> 00:07:35.889 kibbeh yaatian, pumpkin kibbeh, wara anab abzait, 00:07:36.850 --> 00:07:40.589 kousabzait, like we have a lot of vegan dishes 00:07:40.589 --> 00:07:43.870 which are like a necessity on every Lebanese 00:07:43.870 --> 00:07:47.610 table. And maybe this is why the vegan movement 00:07:47.610 --> 00:07:51.790 in Lebanon is progressing because we're actually 00:07:51.790 --> 00:07:58.389 used to eating vegan food and Meat is considered 00:07:58.389 --> 00:08:01.750 a luxurious food, you can say, and this is how 00:08:01.750 --> 00:08:07.110 people started eating meat. So it was maybe the 00:08:07.110 --> 00:08:10.129 food of the kings and the queens and like the 00:08:10.129 --> 00:08:13.850 rich people, the really rich people who can afford 00:08:13.850 --> 00:08:20.269 it. And Lebanon is known for their agriculture, 00:08:21.129 --> 00:08:25.100 for planting. and the vegetables, the fruits, 00:08:26.160 --> 00:08:29.199 the climate in Lebanon is very good for planting. 00:08:30.199 --> 00:08:35.000 And this is why most of Lebanese people are farmers 00:08:35.000 --> 00:08:39.700 and they concentrate on planting their foods, 00:08:40.399 --> 00:08:43.879 their vegetables, their fruits. And veganism 00:08:43.879 --> 00:08:48.240 is something very common here because you're 00:08:48.240 --> 00:08:52.350 actually 90 % vegan. Without even knowing you're 00:08:52.350 --> 00:08:56.669 a vegan. Yes, I can relate to that. I told you 00:08:56.669 --> 00:09:00.110 before we started the recording that I was born 00:09:00.110 --> 00:09:04.090 in North Africa and most North African food is 00:09:04.090 --> 00:09:09.289 vegan, plant -based. But because of French culture 00:09:09.289 --> 00:09:12.610 and the influence of French culture, we added 00:09:12.610 --> 00:09:15.950 butter and eggs to recipes that traditionally 00:09:15.950 --> 00:09:19.929 were plant -based. So I guess you were... protected 00:09:19.929 --> 00:09:22.590 against that kind of influence from other Middle 00:09:22.590 --> 00:09:25.909 Eastern countries and also against the French 00:09:25.909 --> 00:09:30.090 because there was French presence in Lebanon. 00:09:30.889 --> 00:09:35.509 That's true. The French occupied Lebanon and 00:09:35.509 --> 00:09:38.409 our Independence Day wasn't very long ago, it's 00:09:38.409 --> 00:09:43.049 in November 22. Happy Independence Day. Thank 00:09:43.049 --> 00:09:47.720 you. Amazing. Okay, so then... What is the opposition 00:09:47.720 --> 00:09:51.320 against veganism? What are the top things that 00:09:51.320 --> 00:09:54.980 Lebanese people, Middle Eastern people say in 00:09:54.980 --> 00:10:00.559 opposition to becoming full -time vegan? So usually 00:10:00.559 --> 00:10:05.360 the problems in Middle Eastern countries, when 00:10:05.360 --> 00:10:10.320 you tell them that you have to be vegan, and 00:10:10.320 --> 00:10:18.679 it's the only way. cannot promote a lifestyle 00:10:18.679 --> 00:10:24.179 other than veganism because I cannot understand 00:10:24.179 --> 00:10:29.440 someone who knows, who is aware of what's happening 00:10:29.440 --> 00:10:33.000 to animals and still contributes in their suffering. 00:10:33.539 --> 00:10:38.200 So I cannot say that I understand people who 00:10:38.200 --> 00:10:41.620 are aware, although the people who are not aware, 00:10:42.120 --> 00:10:45.240 we cannot blame them because I think we were 00:10:45.240 --> 00:10:49.419 once like them. I wasn't born vegan. I wasn't 00:10:49.419 --> 00:10:52.399 born knowing what was happening to the animals. 00:10:52.480 --> 00:10:56.679 But I think when you start knowing what's happening, 00:10:56.960 --> 00:10:59.399 you are responsible for everything, for every 00:10:59.399 --> 00:11:04.320 choice you take. So the oppositions in Lebanon, 00:11:04.820 --> 00:11:08.240 when we speak about veganism, is usually tradition 00:11:08.240 --> 00:11:14.690 and religion. They try to defend their choices 00:11:14.690 --> 00:11:19.690 by using tradition and religion as a shield to 00:11:19.690 --> 00:11:25.149 mask their murder and justices, their exploitation. 00:11:26.250 --> 00:11:30.750 And I think that this is such a weak argument 00:11:30.750 --> 00:11:37.610 because using those two things as a shield is 00:11:37.610 --> 00:11:41.309 very cowardice and this doesn't justify killing. 00:11:41.720 --> 00:11:44.480 and torturing and exploiting innocent beings. 00:11:45.500 --> 00:11:51.799 And usually what I reply is I do not go into 00:11:51.799 --> 00:11:58.120 religion and like dive into it because you divert 00:11:58.120 --> 00:12:02.659 the idea into something else. So you're not talking 00:12:02.659 --> 00:12:04.799 about veganism anymore. Now you're talking into 00:12:04.799 --> 00:12:07.259 religion and now we're going into religion and 00:12:07.259 --> 00:12:11.000 that's not what we want. We have to focus on 00:12:11.000 --> 00:12:16.149 why it's ethical or not and there's nothing ethical 00:12:16.149 --> 00:12:19.450 about slaughtering animals not even the halal 00:12:19.450 --> 00:12:26.789 way which some vegans say it's okay but like 00:12:26.789 --> 00:12:29.870 some vegans say not all animals are being slaughtered 00:12:29.870 --> 00:12:32.409 the halal way they're not being treated in a 00:12:32.409 --> 00:12:35.990 good way and they're not being slaughtered in 00:12:35.990 --> 00:12:40.090 the way that religion stated they should be slaughtered 00:12:40.090 --> 00:12:43.779 but i think There is no ethical way to slaughter 00:12:43.779 --> 00:12:47.220 an animal that doesn't want to die. And this 00:12:47.220 --> 00:12:50.759 is why I do not dive into religion because I 00:12:50.759 --> 00:12:54.580 do not believe in halal. I do not believe in 00:12:54.580 --> 00:12:57.200 ethical slaughter. I do not believe in humane 00:12:57.200 --> 00:13:01.019 slaughter. I do not believe in kosher. I do not 00:13:01.019 --> 00:13:05.259 believe in free range. I believe in bodily autonomy, 00:13:05.899 --> 00:13:10.100 in rights, freedom, and using religion and tradition. 00:13:10.620 --> 00:13:15.480 to justify shedding blood, chopping heads, decapitating 00:13:15.480 --> 00:13:18.899 innocent beings, exploiting them, impregnating 00:13:18.899 --> 00:13:22.899 them, stealing their babies. It's very cowardice. 00:13:34.440 --> 00:13:37.460 North America, it is celebrated by the slaughter 00:13:37.460 --> 00:13:41.539 of a turkey. Everyone is eating turkey. And you 00:13:41.539 --> 00:13:44.879 can draw the same parallel with some Middle Eastern 00:13:44.879 --> 00:13:49.059 traditions. Definitely. If someone is born, you 00:13:49.059 --> 00:13:52.360 know, we're going to slaughter a sheep or lamb 00:13:52.360 --> 00:13:56.080 or something. There's also Haid al -Adha, celebrated 00:13:56.080 --> 00:14:00.259 by Muslims, where it is very violent. Families 00:14:00.259 --> 00:14:02.860 will slaughter themselves, you know, a sheep. 00:14:04.029 --> 00:14:07.710 Do you think when people are exposed to that 00:14:07.710 --> 00:14:11.570 level of animal violence, they develop a certain 00:14:11.570 --> 00:14:16.070 insensitivity? I wonder if you show footage of 00:14:16.070 --> 00:14:18.809 animals getting slaughtered to Middle Eastern 00:14:18.809 --> 00:14:23.289 people, do they respond the same as North Americans? 00:14:23.730 --> 00:14:27.950 I think that in my experience here, because I've 00:14:27.950 --> 00:14:32.409 done a lot of street activism in the Lebanese 00:14:32.409 --> 00:14:36.500 streets, and I also contributed with anonymous 00:14:36.500 --> 00:14:40.019 for the voiceless in Lebanon many times where 00:14:40.019 --> 00:14:45.600 we hold a screen of videos of animals being slaughtered 00:14:45.600 --> 00:14:47.940 showing the truth nothing else but the truth 00:14:47.940 --> 00:14:50.419 what you're paying for what people are paying 00:14:50.419 --> 00:14:54.779 for what their daily choices are doing usually 00:14:54.779 --> 00:15:00.960 like 95 percent of people cannot watch cannot 00:15:00.960 --> 00:15:05.549 see So here, like, there's something unusual. 00:15:06.789 --> 00:15:10.350 How can you pay for this? How can you eat it? 00:15:10.850 --> 00:15:16.529 But you cannot watch it. Why do your eyes, they 00:15:16.529 --> 00:15:19.870 don't want to see this. But why does your stomach, 00:15:20.149 --> 00:15:25.070 it's okay to handle it. There is a lot of ignorance. 00:15:25.519 --> 00:15:28.299 People do not see what's happening. They just 00:15:28.299 --> 00:15:32.480 go to the supermarket. They see the final product 00:15:32.480 --> 00:15:36.799 when the animal is already slaughtered, the animal 00:15:36.799 --> 00:15:41.320 is chopped, cleaned. You cannot see the victim's 00:15:41.320 --> 00:15:45.980 face, eyes. You cannot recognize the victim. 00:15:46.740 --> 00:15:48.940 It doesn't even look like a victim anymore. We 00:15:48.940 --> 00:15:53.830 turned animals into products. not living sentient 00:15:53.830 --> 00:15:59.629 beings that have faces beating hearts so a lot 00:15:59.629 --> 00:16:04.370 of people are shocked and sometimes when we show 00:16:04.370 --> 00:16:11.149 them those footages of slaughter they act like 00:16:11.149 --> 00:16:15.370 we're the ones that are harming them by showing 00:16:15.370 --> 00:16:20.629 them those footages they act defensive some of 00:16:20.629 --> 00:16:25.450 them do not even want to watch it, but they contribute. 00:16:26.490 --> 00:16:30.649 They buy it, they eat it, they digest it, they 00:16:30.649 --> 00:16:35.769 fund it. And this is what hypocrisy means. And 00:16:35.769 --> 00:16:41.769 also how it shows how people, there is a lot 00:16:41.769 --> 00:16:45.250 of cognitive dissonance. A lot of people claim 00:16:45.250 --> 00:16:49.070 to be animal lovers, and then their actions show 00:16:49.070 --> 00:16:52.620 the opposite. Yeah, I think that's it. During 00:16:52.620 --> 00:16:56.340 Thanksgiving, there were so many, you know, meetups 00:16:56.340 --> 00:17:00.580 of North American vegans. And I think they were 00:17:00.580 --> 00:17:05.940 seeking support and warmth from fellow vegans, 00:17:06.099 --> 00:17:09.559 you know, just to resist or tolerate what's happening 00:17:09.559 --> 00:17:13.480 with the Thanksgiving tradition. Is there an 00:17:13.480 --> 00:17:16.539 equivalent to that in Lebanon in the vegan community? 00:17:16.759 --> 00:17:20.740 So for instance, when there is Adha and people 00:17:20.740 --> 00:17:25.559 are slaughtering sheep left and right, do you 00:17:25.559 --> 00:17:30.559 get together and do something special? I think 00:17:30.559 --> 00:17:37.539 that depends on the person's beliefs. If the 00:17:37.539 --> 00:17:41.160 person is a really strong believer of a certain 00:17:41.160 --> 00:17:46.299 religion, I think that it's okay to practice 00:17:46.299 --> 00:17:51.140 it. in an ethical way with their families if 00:17:51.140 --> 00:17:55.140 they're used to practicing this religion. And 00:17:55.140 --> 00:17:58.720 I think that religion should not be based on 00:17:58.720 --> 00:18:04.720 bloodshed and death, murder, and that people 00:18:04.720 --> 00:18:09.599 can evolve, can do better. OK, let me ask you 00:18:09.599 --> 00:18:13.819 about your, you know, I've looked through some 00:18:13.819 --> 00:18:17.690 of your posts, and of course, I'm I also follow 00:18:17.690 --> 00:18:22.230 the LebaneseVegans account on social media. And 00:18:22.230 --> 00:18:25.950 there's lots of Arabic content, so in Arabic, 00:18:26.829 --> 00:18:30.069 that is accessible to other Arabic speakers across 00:18:30.069 --> 00:18:33.049 the Middle East. And so, of course, there's an 00:18:33.049 --> 00:18:36.650 evolved vegan scene in Lebanon, but not so much 00:18:36.650 --> 00:18:40.250 in the rest of the Middle East. But your content 00:18:40.250 --> 00:18:43.890 can reach people from all across the Middle East 00:18:43.890 --> 00:18:47.869 because it's in Arabic. Have you seen that? Did 00:18:47.869 --> 00:18:51.569 people message you or react from other countries 00:18:51.569 --> 00:18:55.490 of the Middle East to your content in Arabic? 00:18:55.849 --> 00:19:00.750 Yeah, definitely. I recently, actually, I went 00:19:00.750 --> 00:19:05.970 to a vegan sanctuary in Lebanon where there was 00:19:05.970 --> 00:19:09.950 a rescued calf, a baby cow that was rescued from 00:19:09.950 --> 00:19:16.000 slaughter from the dairy industry. I went to 00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:21.160 this baby calf and recorded myself with this 00:19:21.160 --> 00:19:25.819 baby calf saying in Arabic that this is a living 00:19:25.819 --> 00:19:29.180 breathing organism that feels pain. What's the 00:19:29.180 --> 00:19:33.319 difference between this calf and a dog? Why are 00:19:33.319 --> 00:19:36.180 you murdering this innocent creature? Why won't 00:19:36.180 --> 00:19:41.319 you be merciful and not slaughter this creature? 00:19:42.039 --> 00:19:44.920 This is a beautiful creature that deserves life 00:19:44.920 --> 00:19:49.660 and it wants to live just like your dog and This 00:19:49.660 --> 00:19:53.119 video went viral. It's actually like two months 00:19:53.119 --> 00:19:58.259 ago. It went viral in the whole Middle East and 00:19:58.259 --> 00:20:02.460 I was very happy that it went viral, but the 00:20:02.460 --> 00:20:08.240 comments were pathetic The comments were fueled 00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:16.210 with toxic masculinity and ignorance. And because 00:20:16.210 --> 00:20:20.150 I'm already an influencer on social media and 00:20:20.150 --> 00:20:24.369 I've been using social media for a long time, 00:20:24.430 --> 00:20:28.990 I do not get affected from negative comments 00:20:28.990 --> 00:20:36.430 and bullying or harsh words and insults. But 00:20:36.430 --> 00:20:41.420 I realized that most of the comments They were 00:20:41.420 --> 00:20:43.380 from different countries all around the Middle 00:20:43.380 --> 00:20:46.619 East, but most of the comments were the ad hominem 00:20:46.619 --> 00:20:53.900 comments. Which means ad hominem. I think it's 00:20:53.900 --> 00:20:57.579 called in Arabic. Where instead of tackling the 00:20:57.579 --> 00:21:01.460 certain subject or idea, they attack you on a 00:21:01.460 --> 00:21:05.890 personal level. They curse you. talk about your 00:21:05.890 --> 00:21:09.569 looks, your hair, your face, and they insult 00:21:09.569 --> 00:21:12.269 you on a personal level without even tackling 00:21:12.269 --> 00:21:17.089 the subject that you're talking about. And most 00:21:17.089 --> 00:21:22.230 of the comments that like used this ad hominem 00:21:22.230 --> 00:21:26.950 effect were males, toxic males in the Middle 00:21:26.950 --> 00:21:31.369 East. And the other half, they were sarcastic 00:21:31.369 --> 00:21:35.869 comments where they say like, oh I'm hungry now 00:21:35.869 --> 00:21:40.329 I want steak which is so pathetic and weak and 00:21:40.329 --> 00:21:45.430 I was actually happy that it reached this much 00:21:45.430 --> 00:21:47.970 people even though that most of the comments 00:21:47.970 --> 00:21:54.730 were like males getting angry either they're 00:21:54.730 --> 00:21:59.730 attacking me insulting me or just being sarcastic 00:22:00.170 --> 00:22:03.309 But I was happy because I made them watch a vegan 00:22:03.309 --> 00:22:06.009 content that they don't normally see every day. 00:22:06.349 --> 00:22:08.750 They don't open Instagram and see vegan videos. 00:22:08.869 --> 00:22:11.930 They don't open Instagram and see animals playing 00:22:11.930 --> 00:22:15.869 around. They see their shawarmas, their burgers, 00:22:16.089 --> 00:22:19.250 their slaughtered products. I made them see something 00:22:19.250 --> 00:22:21.910 that they don't usually see. I forced them to 00:22:21.910 --> 00:22:25.029 see this content and they're going to think about 00:22:25.029 --> 00:22:28.230 it. And I know that their conscious is eating 00:22:28.230 --> 00:22:31.619 them. I know that the guilt is eating them and 00:22:31.619 --> 00:22:35.480 if they were intelligent people that are like 00:22:35.480 --> 00:22:38.740 intelligent and compassionate people they would 00:22:38.740 --> 00:22:42.339 see what they're doing is wrong and actually 00:22:42.339 --> 00:22:48.539 like learn from this video so yes it went viral 00:22:48.539 --> 00:22:53.000 in the middle east and a lot of pages in Lebanon 00:22:53.000 --> 00:22:57.380 like you can say sarcastic pages even reposted 00:22:57.380 --> 00:23:01.480 my video they think like what is she doing she's 00:23:01.480 --> 00:23:04.200 so weird this girl is so weird why is she saying 00:23:04.200 --> 00:23:08.759 that why is she defending an animal why is she 00:23:08.759 --> 00:23:10.839 not slaughtering it why is she not cutting off 00:23:10.839 --> 00:23:15.440 his head you know so a lot of pages posted reposted 00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:18.099 my video and i was happy because yeah you're 00:23:18.099 --> 00:23:20.339 sharing my video thank you you're sharing it 00:23:20.339 --> 00:23:23.390 this is what i want I want you to share it. Even 00:23:23.390 --> 00:23:24.690 though you're going to insult me, you're going 00:23:24.690 --> 00:23:27.009 to make fun of it. You're going to do whatever 00:23:27.009 --> 00:23:29.710 you want. You're sharing it. You're spreading 00:23:29.710 --> 00:23:33.450 veganism. You're spreading my words. Yeah, it's 00:23:33.450 --> 00:23:36.710 like that phrase. I think it's from Gandhi, but 00:23:36.710 --> 00:23:39.529 I'm not sure. I think it's a fake quote. You 00:23:39.529 --> 00:23:41.930 know, they will laugh at you and then hate you 00:23:41.930 --> 00:23:46.109 and then, you know, goes down the list. But yeah, 00:23:46.329 --> 00:23:49.750 the overall idea is you need it's better to get 00:23:49.750 --> 00:23:54.490 a reaction than to get indifference. Then I want 00:23:54.490 --> 00:23:57.450 to pick up on one of your comments. You said 00:23:57.450 --> 00:24:01.390 toxic masculinity. Do you think there is a correlation 00:24:01.390 --> 00:24:06.509 with the way Middle Eastern Arab men live their 00:24:06.509 --> 00:24:10.470 masculinity and animal abuse or animal exploitation? 00:24:11.349 --> 00:24:15.250 Definitely, there is a big correlation. Unfortunately, 00:24:15.640 --> 00:24:20.019 Men, I'm not gonna only say Arab men, it's men 00:24:20.019 --> 00:24:26.380 usually, but it's also very, very common in Arab 00:24:26.380 --> 00:24:30.859 men. There is a lot of toxic masculinity because 00:24:30.859 --> 00:24:35.339 they were raised in a way to think that they're 00:24:35.339 --> 00:24:38.420 superior, they're the superior species, even 00:24:38.420 --> 00:24:44.180 more superior than females. They are like gods. 00:24:44.460 --> 00:24:48.000 they think there are gods and they think that 00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:52.079 everything else is beneath them female, female 00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:56.660 humans, animals, whatever everything is beneath 00:24:56.660 --> 00:25:01.640 them and this is actually a very sick characteristic 00:25:01.640 --> 00:25:06.259 in males they're sick when they think like that 00:25:06.259 --> 00:25:12.380 and I see a lot of men hunting animals they think 00:25:12.380 --> 00:25:16.319 that this will make them feel more manly look 00:25:16.319 --> 00:25:20.779 more manly but this is actually a crying boy 00:25:20.779 --> 00:25:23.079 screaming they think they're masculine but they're 00:25:23.079 --> 00:25:28.039 not masculine they are pathetic and insecure 00:25:28.039 --> 00:25:31.140 a strong person if they think they're strong 00:25:31.140 --> 00:25:35.940 should protect a weak individual animal or anything 00:25:35.940 --> 00:25:40.660 you should protect the weak not harass it, catcall 00:25:40.660 --> 00:25:45.240 it, rape it, attack it, assault it, kill it. 00:25:45.420 --> 00:25:48.640 This is not what men should do or any human being 00:25:48.640 --> 00:25:52.220 should do, whether men or female. But usually, 00:25:52.420 --> 00:25:57.000 yeah, men have this toxic supremacist mentality 00:25:57.000 --> 00:26:00.640 where they just want to kill. There's violence. 00:26:01.059 --> 00:26:05.720 I think because at a young age, men were raised 00:26:06.059 --> 00:26:11.339 in society and by their parents to appear insensitive, 00:26:12.039 --> 00:26:14.940 not talk about their feelings, appear like they 00:26:14.940 --> 00:26:18.839 don't care, they don't cry, they don't express 00:26:18.839 --> 00:26:23.759 themselves. And the things that are offered to 00:26:23.759 --> 00:26:28.119 males are usually violence, guns, even if it's 00:26:28.119 --> 00:26:31.640 toy guns like water guns, video games that involve 00:26:31.640 --> 00:26:36.670 killing. It's always roughness. They're raised 00:26:36.670 --> 00:26:40.970 in a rough manner. Be rough. Be violent. You're 00:26:40.970 --> 00:26:44.230 a man. Be a man. Don't cry. Don't have mercy. 00:26:44.750 --> 00:26:49.230 Your word is the only word. A female is not allowed 00:26:49.230 --> 00:26:53.750 to speak. You're before her. You speak. She follows 00:26:53.750 --> 00:26:57.849 you. You lead and you kill. You're a man. Go 00:26:57.849 --> 00:27:01.549 hunting. Go kill this rabbit, this innocent poor 00:27:01.549 --> 00:27:04.109 rabbit. Go kill it. Be a man on this rabbit. 00:27:04.430 --> 00:27:07.430 Show this rabbit you're a man. Show this deer 00:27:07.430 --> 00:27:12.210 you're a man. This is how they think that they 00:27:12.210 --> 00:27:16.950 will become men. But they're actually pure, insecure, 00:27:17.130 --> 00:27:22.089 pathetic people that need therapy and rehab. 00:27:22.690 --> 00:27:28.140 They need rehab. I would add to that that, you 00:27:28.140 --> 00:27:31.859 know, it is codified in religion and tradition. 00:27:32.480 --> 00:27:35.579 Usually, you know, if the sheep needs to get 00:27:35.579 --> 00:27:38.380 to be slaughtered, it's the men of the family 00:27:38.380 --> 00:27:41.619 that has to do the slaughtering. It is always 00:27:41.619 --> 00:27:44.099 incumbent on, you know, the men of the family, 00:27:44.339 --> 00:27:48.660 the patriarch to do the killing. Yeah. I think 00:27:48.660 --> 00:27:51.799 there is a big role in religion and tradition. 00:27:52.859 --> 00:27:55.799 And a lot of people want to explain religion 00:27:55.799 --> 00:27:59.200 in their own way. And it's not like that. We 00:27:59.200 --> 00:28:03.019 are seeing what religion and tradition is causing, 00:28:03.319 --> 00:28:09.259 what it's doing. And it's obvious that this all 00:28:09.259 --> 00:28:12.400 came from religion and tradition. And now some 00:28:12.400 --> 00:28:15.880 people are going to say, no, you're doing religion 00:28:15.880 --> 00:28:19.940 wrong. This isn't how religion works. This isn't 00:28:19.940 --> 00:28:22.640 how tradition works. Okay, look at the majority. 00:28:23.140 --> 00:28:25.680 What's happening? And it's already written in 00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:31.359 the books. Men. Men. Supremacy. Dominion. It's 00:28:31.359 --> 00:28:37.720 obvious. Personally, I do not argue in religion 00:28:37.720 --> 00:28:41.259 because a lot of people will become so defensive. 00:28:42.599 --> 00:28:48.220 And I do not believe in religion. I believe in... 00:28:48.269 --> 00:28:54.829 ethics, morality, respect, education, knowledge, 00:28:55.990 --> 00:29:02.349 mercy, science, actually. And it's sad that how 00:29:02.349 --> 00:29:09.650 cultures were brought up, how men are being fed 00:29:09.650 --> 00:29:19.380 these toxic traits. concerning because we can 00:29:19.380 --> 00:29:23.740 see what it's causing the wars, the weapons, 00:29:24.019 --> 00:29:30.039 the rapes, the murder, either if it's on the 00:29:30.039 --> 00:29:33.039 humans and the animals and the plants. And you 00:29:33.039 --> 00:29:37.940 know something that some females are misogynistic 00:29:37.940 --> 00:29:43.319 and they have like some this toxicity? Like some 00:29:43.319 --> 00:29:47.180 females, they got it. Imagine a female who is 00:29:47.180 --> 00:29:51.440 misogynistic. It's sad that she's misogynistic 00:29:51.440 --> 00:29:57.160 and she hates her own kind. I usually see those 00:29:57.160 --> 00:30:00.819 females, the ones that drink dairy, that consume 00:30:00.819 --> 00:30:05.079 dairy, they're the most misogynistic, the most 00:30:05.079 --> 00:30:08.880 anti -females. She can say she's a feminist. 00:30:08.920 --> 00:30:13.720 She can go on the streets and protest for feminism 00:30:13.720 --> 00:30:16.700 and women rights. And then the minute she goes 00:30:16.700 --> 00:30:21.779 back home, consumes dairy and eggs, she's anti 00:30:21.779 --> 00:30:25.079 -female. And that's something not all females 00:30:25.079 --> 00:30:29.119 realize and not all females want to accept. Yeah, 00:30:29.140 --> 00:30:33.380 let me share a personal experience with that. 00:30:33.700 --> 00:30:37.160 I was talking to a cousin. she's a woman and 00:30:37.160 --> 00:30:39.940 she was, I was telling her about, we were talking 00:30:39.940 --> 00:30:42.740 about grandma and how I loved grandma and all 00:30:42.740 --> 00:30:46.440 of that. She said, you know, she prefers the 00:30:46.440 --> 00:30:49.680 boys in the family than the girls. I was like, 00:30:50.039 --> 00:30:53.200 what were you saying? And she gave me a list 00:30:53.200 --> 00:30:57.299 of examples. And I had to concede that, yes, 00:30:57.380 --> 00:31:00.220 her behavior was quite different with the boys 00:31:00.220 --> 00:31:03.940 compared to the girls in the family. And that's 00:31:03.940 --> 00:31:06.799 the same attitude you described. She looked at 00:31:06.799 --> 00:31:13.019 the boys as those amazing creatures that can 00:31:13.019 --> 00:31:17.000 do no wrong. And so, yeah, that resonates with 00:31:17.000 --> 00:31:20.259 me on a personal level. That's very true. That's 00:31:20.259 --> 00:31:22.680 very true. I've seen this. I've seen this a lot. 00:31:23.280 --> 00:31:30.180 A lot in the human race. A lot. Let's talk about 00:31:30.180 --> 00:31:33.660 violence, too. Sadly, if I ask someone in the 00:31:33.660 --> 00:31:37.059 streets, what do you know about Lebanon? I think 00:31:37.059 --> 00:31:40.500 they will think about the news coverage of Lebanon, 00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:43.160 and they will think there's violence, there's 00:31:43.160 --> 00:31:47.319 war, this is a crazy place. Now, I don't know 00:31:47.319 --> 00:31:51.240 how much of that is true, because the news coverage 00:31:51.240 --> 00:31:56.490 is... always biased. But do you think that in 00:31:56.490 --> 00:31:59.269 countries with a history of violence, of war, 00:31:59.509 --> 00:32:05.250 of conflict, there's a propensity to abuse animals 00:32:05.250 --> 00:32:10.470 in people? Okay, so in Lebanon, I think it's 00:32:10.470 --> 00:32:13.349 pretty obvious the whole world knows that we 00:32:13.349 --> 00:32:17.869 were in a war like two years ago and we're still 00:32:17.869 --> 00:32:21.369 actually being bombed by Israel practically every 00:32:21.369 --> 00:32:25.960 day. and we are war survivors who were not killed 00:32:25.960 --> 00:32:29.559 fortunately. Lebanon is a very beautiful country 00:32:29.559 --> 00:32:34.220 that a lot of people misunderstand and they have 00:32:34.220 --> 00:32:38.160 the wrong idea because of the western media and 00:32:38.160 --> 00:32:41.640 what the western media shows especially like 00:32:41.640 --> 00:32:46.200 most of the western media is Zionist and they 00:32:46.200 --> 00:32:51.980 wanna like make Lebanon look like this destruction, 00:32:52.859 --> 00:32:58.420 place, war zone. It's not like that. The Lebanese 00:32:58.420 --> 00:33:04.500 people are very resilient. We continued our lives 00:33:04.500 --> 00:33:11.680 and we continued living. Me, I'm against all 00:33:11.680 --> 00:33:14.720 kinds of violence. All kinds of violence. I'm 00:33:14.720 --> 00:33:19.099 not with weapons, not with wars. I just like... 00:33:19.079 --> 00:33:22.059 wish that there was peace on earth between everyone. 00:33:22.440 --> 00:33:26.519 You know, this is what I want. This is what I 00:33:26.519 --> 00:33:31.319 wish. So in countries like, for example, Lebanon, 00:33:31.400 --> 00:33:35.400 we've been through war. I don't think that because 00:33:35.400 --> 00:33:38.200 of this war, people are going to start abusing 00:33:38.200 --> 00:33:44.420 animals because Lebanese are already known for 00:33:44.420 --> 00:33:50.299 being educated people. the majority of the Lebanese 00:33:50.299 --> 00:33:56.039 population is educated and aware of animal rights. 00:33:56.819 --> 00:34:03.400 But sadly, this goes only to pets like dogs and 00:34:03.400 --> 00:34:06.500 cats. The Lebanese people are very, very well 00:34:06.500 --> 00:34:10.340 known for protecting stray animals and feeding 00:34:10.340 --> 00:34:12.840 them. And like when you go down on the streets, 00:34:13.219 --> 00:34:15.440 you see everyone feeding the cats, everyone feeding 00:34:15.440 --> 00:34:18.809 the dogs, which is a very good thing. I'm so 00:34:18.809 --> 00:34:21.389 happy and thankful for those people. But you 00:34:21.389 --> 00:34:25.130 cannot be an animal lover if you feed cats and 00:34:25.130 --> 00:34:27.969 dogs and go back home and slaughter other animals. 00:34:28.349 --> 00:34:31.269 Like what did you do? It's like you did nothing. 00:34:32.730 --> 00:34:37.769 And I think something that is common here is 00:34:37.769 --> 00:34:42.429 that when during the war, when I was posting 00:34:42.429 --> 00:34:46.139 about slaughterhouses and veganism like I did 00:34:46.139 --> 00:34:50.260 not stop one day posting about veganism people 00:34:50.260 --> 00:34:53.460 were like oh this is what you care about now 00:34:53.460 --> 00:34:56.880 there's a war going on and you're caring about 00:34:56.880 --> 00:34:59.659 the animals instead of posting about the humans 00:34:59.659 --> 00:35:03.880 dying let's get one thing straight I can post 00:35:03.880 --> 00:35:07.800 about whatever I want you know so I tell them 00:35:07.800 --> 00:35:11.369 that you can go ahead and Post on your social 00:35:11.369 --> 00:35:15.869 media about animals, about humans. You can do 00:35:15.869 --> 00:35:20.449 a human organization even. I encourage you, but 00:35:20.449 --> 00:35:23.769 like I want to talk for the animals because they 00:35:23.769 --> 00:35:27.389 have no one. They have no voice. It's my account. 00:35:28.570 --> 00:35:31.010 I want to defend whoever I want. If you don't 00:35:31.010 --> 00:35:33.989 like that, go to your government and tell them 00:35:33.989 --> 00:35:36.530 protect me. They are the ones who are responsible 00:35:36.530 --> 00:35:39.369 for you, not me, a Lebanese citizen. But I'm 00:35:39.369 --> 00:35:42.969 trying to raise awareness about the voiceless 00:35:42.969 --> 00:35:46.150 that do not have anyone to defend them. And people 00:35:46.150 --> 00:35:49.829 go insane like, oh, so this is what you care 00:35:49.829 --> 00:35:55.510 about. I don't know, like some, they justify 00:35:55.510 --> 00:36:00.510 a crime with another crime. Like, okay, we tell 00:36:00.510 --> 00:36:04.150 them a lot of animals are being killed. OK, yeah, 00:36:04.150 --> 00:36:07.889 humans are being killed too. So does that justify 00:36:07.889 --> 00:36:10.869 animals being killed? You cannot justify a crime 00:36:10.869 --> 00:36:13.449 with another crime. They're both equally wrong. 00:36:14.289 --> 00:36:19.389 They're both equally wrong. There's nothing like 00:36:19.389 --> 00:36:23.610 more right than another thing like justice is 00:36:23.610 --> 00:36:26.050 justice, whether it's for animals or humans. 00:36:26.969 --> 00:36:31.250 But animals do not have a voice and the majority 00:36:31.250 --> 00:36:34.030 of the world isn't vegan. The majority of the 00:36:34.030 --> 00:36:38.170 world is killing them. So at least it should 00:36:38.170 --> 00:36:42.070 have someone to defend them and talk for them 00:36:42.070 --> 00:36:45.829 because nobody is eating humans in the world. 00:36:48.030 --> 00:36:51.789 There is human abuse, there is slavery up till 00:36:51.789 --> 00:36:58.050 now, but it's not as this common as slaughtering 00:36:58.050 --> 00:37:00.929 animals, exploiting them, using them for entertainment, 00:37:01.789 --> 00:37:08.150 testing on them. The animal genocide is the biggest 00:37:08.150 --> 00:37:12.889 genocide in the world. And it's the most genocide 00:37:12.889 --> 00:37:15.949 that no one talks about. And, you know, we're 00:37:15.949 --> 00:37:19.889 only a few people talking about animals and what 00:37:19.889 --> 00:37:22.889 they're going through. You know, human abuse, 00:37:23.360 --> 00:37:27.179 it will get covered by news outlets from everywhere. 00:37:27.780 --> 00:37:31.219 But if we fail to give voice to the animals, 00:37:32.340 --> 00:37:36.539 then who else? Who else is going to take on that 00:37:36.539 --> 00:37:40.960 task? And so, yeah, we need to prioritize the 00:37:40.960 --> 00:37:45.059 animals. At least us. It doesn't mean you don't 00:37:45.059 --> 00:37:50.269 care about human issues. I know you care. I also 00:37:50.269 --> 00:37:54.610 care a lot and sometimes I want to take my mic 00:37:54.610 --> 00:37:57.769 and record an episode on whatever human issue 00:37:57.769 --> 00:38:01.449 I think it's important, but that's what it means 00:38:01.449 --> 00:38:05.309 to prioritize an issue over another. They have 00:38:05.309 --> 00:38:08.389 a lot of people doing that. A lot of people fighting 00:38:08.389 --> 00:38:10.829 for human rights. Almost everyone is fighting 00:38:10.829 --> 00:38:13.550 for human rights. How many animals are getting 00:38:13.550 --> 00:38:18.170 slaughtered purposely by second? A billion every 00:38:18.170 --> 00:38:21.900 second. Now they're 2 billion. They're 3 billion. 00:38:22.659 --> 00:38:26.579 4 billion. They keep increasing. Billions are 00:38:26.579 --> 00:38:29.960 being slaughtered every second. Humans aren't 00:38:29.960 --> 00:38:32.099 being slaughtered. And they're not being slaughtered 00:38:32.099 --> 00:38:34.639 in this rate. And they're not being killed in 00:38:34.639 --> 00:38:37.800 this rate. Wars are bad. We're against wars. 00:38:38.820 --> 00:38:42.159 But the war on animal is the biggest war in the 00:38:42.159 --> 00:38:45.800 world. And it's our priority. And it's the war 00:38:45.800 --> 00:38:49.420 we should all talk about. The war on animals. 00:38:50.019 --> 00:38:52.960 I agree. I want to quickly go back to the question 00:38:52.960 --> 00:38:57.000 of violence and animal abuse. You know, I had 00:38:57.000 --> 00:39:00.719 a class in college, a psychology class, and the 00:39:00.719 --> 00:39:03.619 teacher was explaining why, you know, when someone 00:39:03.619 --> 00:39:06.679 has a bad day at work, you know, they go back 00:39:06.679 --> 00:39:10.139 to their house, their family. And the first one 00:39:10.139 --> 00:39:14.590 that you know, gets hit by that, you know, is 00:39:14.590 --> 00:39:18.550 the dog or explained, you know, another way how 00:39:18.550 --> 00:39:21.110 the person is stressed because of their job and 00:39:21.110 --> 00:39:25.289 they find a way to vent the stress by, you know, 00:39:25.469 --> 00:39:28.369 hitting the dog of the family. And so it's always 00:39:28.369 --> 00:39:31.289 the animal, the defenseless one that finds itself 00:39:31.289 --> 00:39:36.409 the outlet for that stress. And, you know, I 00:39:36.409 --> 00:39:39.469 meant, you know, in the countries that know violence 00:39:39.469 --> 00:39:44.420 and war, people get psychologically traumatized 00:39:44.420 --> 00:39:49.159 and often that well, it hurts animals because 00:39:49.159 --> 00:39:53.039 then people use animals as an outlet for that 00:39:53.039 --> 00:39:57.039 stress. Have you witnessed any form of that? 00:39:57.260 --> 00:40:03.320 I did not witness a form of this abuse that is 00:40:03.320 --> 00:40:07.239 directly linked to the war. I've witnessed abuse 00:40:07.239 --> 00:40:10.619 in Lebanon before the war. and after the war, 00:40:11.159 --> 00:40:14.019 there's always abuse, but it's not linked to 00:40:14.019 --> 00:40:17.639 the war. I think that a person who has a bad 00:40:17.639 --> 00:40:21.340 day or gets traumatized and then goes abusing 00:40:21.340 --> 00:40:24.420 people, I think that's a psychopath. And I don't 00:40:24.420 --> 00:40:30.420 think that it should be a reason to justify animal 00:40:30.420 --> 00:40:33.420 abuse. I don't think this is how trauma begins. 00:40:34.300 --> 00:40:39.670 I think usually trauma is like the violent trauma 00:40:39.670 --> 00:40:44.769 is built when the person is young and they're 00:40:44.769 --> 00:40:47.710 brainwashed. When they're young, this is like 00:40:47.710 --> 00:40:52.449 their brains are still very sensitive. It's easy 00:40:52.449 --> 00:40:56.429 to mold and mend. And yeah, this is how you can 00:40:56.429 --> 00:40:59.090 create an animal abuser when they're children, 00:40:59.650 --> 00:41:02.530 mostly. I'm not saying it's the only way to become 00:41:02.530 --> 00:41:06.349 an animal abuser, but most the animal abusers, 00:41:06.710 --> 00:41:10.889 it shows when they're children, it shows. It 00:41:10.889 --> 00:41:13.570 shows that this person, the way he's raised or 00:41:13.570 --> 00:41:18.909 she's raised, the way, like, the education level, 00:41:19.210 --> 00:41:22.309 the awareness, when they see their parents doing 00:41:22.309 --> 00:41:26.530 this, their dads, their moms, abusing animals, 00:41:26.849 --> 00:41:31.170 and of course, the food that they eat. If it's 00:41:31.170 --> 00:41:33.130 animal -based food, of course they're going to 00:41:33.130 --> 00:41:36.170 become animal abusers or more prone to abusing 00:41:36.170 --> 00:41:40.409 animals unless they figure out what they're doing 00:41:40.409 --> 00:41:44.010 and just put a stop to it and put a stop to the 00:41:44.010 --> 00:41:49.690 cycle of abuse. I think that there's always abuse 00:41:49.690 --> 00:41:53.550 because people are not being raised correctly. 00:41:53.989 --> 00:41:56.949 There's a lot of ignorance and because there's 00:41:56.949 --> 00:42:00.320 speciesism towards animals. Some animals are 00:42:00.320 --> 00:42:04.079 being treated better than animals and human superiority. 00:42:04.699 --> 00:42:07.619 I want to ask you, and of course we know that 00:42:07.619 --> 00:42:10.079 serial killers, you know, the first victims of 00:42:10.079 --> 00:42:12.219 serial killers are always animals, you know, 00:42:12.920 --> 00:42:16.360 and during their childhood nonetheless. So yeah, 00:42:16.659 --> 00:42:20.360 I want to ask you about your relation with the 00:42:20.360 --> 00:42:24.000 rest of the vegan world. Are you in contact with 00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:27.280 other vegan activists from outside of Lebanon? 00:42:27.420 --> 00:42:30.420 Do you feel like What's happening in terms of 00:42:30.420 --> 00:42:34.619 activism in Lebanon is kind of in its own bubble 00:42:34.619 --> 00:42:38.539 and not really in relation with the rest of the 00:42:38.539 --> 00:42:42.019 movement worldwide. Actually, yes, I am in contact 00:42:42.019 --> 00:42:45.980 with a lot of vegan activists outside of Lebanon 00:42:45.980 --> 00:42:49.539 and I have a lot of friends. from abroad from 00:42:49.539 --> 00:42:54.920 the UK, Australia, the Netherlands and USA. I 00:42:54.920 --> 00:42:57.619 have a lot of friends from abroad that are vegan 00:42:57.619 --> 00:43:02.500 activists and one of them like most prominent 00:43:02.500 --> 00:43:05.599 vegan activists worldwide that are very famous. 00:43:06.179 --> 00:43:10.059 And we always speak and share information together 00:43:10.059 --> 00:43:15.639 because we are one entity. fighting for the same 00:43:15.639 --> 00:43:19.539 reason. This is what we share. No matter what 00:43:19.539 --> 00:43:22.400 background we come from, no matter what language 00:43:22.400 --> 00:43:27.420 we speak, we speak one common language, which 00:43:27.420 --> 00:43:31.440 is veganism. It brings us together. And I think 00:43:31.440 --> 00:43:34.699 in Lebanon, it's amazing because we also have 00:43:34.699 --> 00:43:40.559 vegan activists, but I think that it still needs 00:43:40.559 --> 00:43:45.019 training, you can say. There aren't a lot of 00:43:45.019 --> 00:43:49.539 vegan activists in Lebanon. There are some and 00:43:49.539 --> 00:43:54.159 they should be more. And in other countries, 00:43:54.719 --> 00:43:58.519 the vegan activists are more courageous. I see 00:43:58.519 --> 00:44:02.539 videos, for example, of Tash Peterson. I respect 00:44:02.539 --> 00:44:07.500 her so much. She goes to like horse races, restaurants, 00:44:08.039 --> 00:44:12.139 supermarkets and protests. as loud as she can. 00:44:12.340 --> 00:44:16.099 And I think she's amazing for doing that. I see 00:44:16.099 --> 00:44:21.460 Gary Yourofsky, one of the biggest vegan activists 00:44:21.460 --> 00:44:25.039 in the world, who turned million people into 00:44:25.039 --> 00:44:29.840 vegans throughout his speech that he gave like 00:44:29.840 --> 00:44:32.219 11 years ago, I guess. It's on YouTube. It's 00:44:32.219 --> 00:44:35.300 called the best speech you will ever hear or 00:44:35.300 --> 00:44:40.579 something by Gary Yourofsky. There's a lot of 00:44:40.579 --> 00:44:44.440 other vegan activists, like a lot. I cannot name 00:44:44.440 --> 00:44:48.460 them all, but there are a lot. And we are in 00:44:48.460 --> 00:44:52.199 contact. I'm so happy that we are in contact, 00:44:52.260 --> 00:44:57.980 all of us, and we share a lot of ideas and advice 00:44:57.980 --> 00:45:02.840 because I want to learn from senior vegan activists, 00:45:03.300 --> 00:45:06.239 experienced vegan activists, how they started, 00:45:06.599 --> 00:45:10.309 what can I do? in a country like Lebanon where 00:45:10.309 --> 00:45:13.030 veganism isn't very common and animal rights 00:45:13.030 --> 00:45:15.309 isn't very common and it's not common to go to 00:45:15.309 --> 00:45:18.110 supermarkets and scream and tell them meat is 00:45:18.110 --> 00:45:24.050 murder. You cannot go to like a horse race and 00:45:24.050 --> 00:45:27.010 say horseback riding is slavery. Like you cannot 00:45:27.010 --> 00:45:30.170 do that here. It's not common. No one ever did 00:45:30.170 --> 00:45:33.150 that. I would love to do that actually, but I'm 00:45:33.150 --> 00:45:35.690 going to be the only one and I'm going to face 00:45:35.690 --> 00:45:39.210 a lot of issues. Maybe I don't know what might 00:45:39.210 --> 00:45:42.909 happen. Maybe it's not going to be very safe. 00:45:44.289 --> 00:45:48.010 It's never safe if you're alone doing it against 00:45:48.010 --> 00:45:54.030 the crowd. Yeah, there's strength in numbers. 00:45:54.349 --> 00:45:57.570 There's protection, too, in numbers. I'm so glad 00:45:57.570 --> 00:46:01.929 that you are in contact and talking. I had Gary 00:46:01.929 --> 00:46:06.030 on the show, actually. It was great talking with 00:46:06.030 --> 00:46:11.780 him. perspective is very unique and I think precious. 00:46:13.139 --> 00:46:15.960 How did you become vegan? Now I'm interested. 00:46:16.239 --> 00:46:19.519 I never ask this question to my guests, but I'm 00:46:19.519 --> 00:46:22.920 really curious on how you encountered veganism 00:46:22.920 --> 00:46:25.500 and how you were introduced to it. Yeah, I love 00:46:25.500 --> 00:46:29.420 this question. So ever since I was young, I was 00:46:29.420 --> 00:46:33.280 raised in a household where my parents used to 00:46:33.280 --> 00:46:36.219 teach me how to treat animals with kindness. 00:46:36.489 --> 00:46:41.789 cats, dogs, even chickens and sheep. They got 00:46:41.789 --> 00:46:44.710 me chickens and sheep as pets. I remember when 00:46:44.710 --> 00:46:48.610 I was young. And this isn't very common for children, 00:46:49.730 --> 00:46:51.750 like parents getting their children pets that 00:46:51.750 --> 00:46:55.590 are sheep and chicken and rabbits and hamsters 00:46:55.590 --> 00:47:01.110 even. I am against animal breeding and against 00:47:01.110 --> 00:47:04.840 selling animals. But like when I was young. I 00:47:04.840 --> 00:47:08.000 did not know that because my parents got them 00:47:08.000 --> 00:47:13.639 already. So I was taught to treat them with kindness 00:47:13.639 --> 00:47:19.340 and respect and dignity. And I wanted to become 00:47:19.340 --> 00:47:23.780 a vet when I was six years old because I thought 00:47:23.780 --> 00:47:27.800 that vets are like the most ethical people towards 00:47:27.800 --> 00:47:32.300 animals on earth. But I was wrong. because 90 00:47:32.300 --> 00:47:36.340 % of vets aren't vegan. They eat their patients. 00:47:37.860 --> 00:47:42.019 And this is pure hypocrisy again. Cognitive dissonance. 00:47:43.400 --> 00:47:47.539 Anyways, I wanted to become a vet, and I even 00:47:47.539 --> 00:47:51.320 wrote it in my journal when I was six. Vet Mayakal 00:47:51.320 --> 00:47:55.179 was. And I did, like, a business card. and I 00:47:55.179 --> 00:47:57.780 did it green, remember? I remember I did it green 00:47:57.780 --> 00:48:00.780 because I love nature, and I drew some animals 00:48:00.780 --> 00:48:03.800 on it, and I called myself Dr. Maya Kawas, the 00:48:03.800 --> 00:48:08.400 vet. As I grew up, my sheep, I'm going to tell 00:48:08.400 --> 00:48:12.300 you a story. My sheep, his name was Khudra. I 00:48:12.300 --> 00:48:14.440 called him Khudra because I used to feed him 00:48:14.440 --> 00:48:18.280 vegetables, which is Khudra in Arabic. And he 00:48:18.280 --> 00:48:21.960 was my best friend. And I was like 10 years old. 00:48:22.219 --> 00:48:25.949 We have a lot of pictures together. because I 00:48:25.949 --> 00:48:28.989 have a house in the mountains with a big garden 00:48:28.989 --> 00:48:32.750 and he used to live there. I wake up every day 00:48:32.750 --> 00:48:36.610 and feed him. And one day it was Eid al -Adha 00:48:36.610 --> 00:48:39.489 and the Khudra is like five years old maybe. 00:48:40.449 --> 00:48:44.730 So he was taken and slaughtered and I didn't 00:48:44.730 --> 00:48:46.690 know what happened to him. Like imagine your 00:48:46.690 --> 00:48:49.730 dog being slaughtered. Khudra was practically 00:48:49.730 --> 00:48:55.070 my dog who was a sheep. It was my friends. And 00:48:55.070 --> 00:48:58.510 when I saw what happened, I did not understand 00:48:58.510 --> 00:49:02.230 what is going on and why did they slaughter my 00:49:02.230 --> 00:49:04.889 friends. And they offered me a dish and I couldn't 00:49:04.889 --> 00:49:09.429 even look at it. Eating my friend. This is psychopathic, 00:49:09.429 --> 00:49:13.710 crazy behavior. What is happening? This is child 00:49:13.710 --> 00:49:16.670 abuse. And I made the link when I was young. 00:49:16.670 --> 00:49:21.889 I made the link and I stopped eating meat. for 00:49:21.889 --> 00:49:26.030 a long time and couldn't eat it anymore. And 00:49:26.030 --> 00:49:30.230 then when I continued university and school, 00:49:30.650 --> 00:49:35.130 again, you do not see how animals are being slaughtered. 00:49:35.590 --> 00:49:39.250 It's not something shown on television or like 00:49:39.250 --> 00:49:43.150 shown in your kitchen. So I continued eating 00:49:43.150 --> 00:49:47.090 animal products blindly, sadly, without knowing 00:49:47.090 --> 00:49:51.769 what I'm causing. And then suddenly, One day 00:49:51.769 --> 00:49:55.670 I was walking in the library about five, six 00:49:55.670 --> 00:50:01.610 years ago and I saw a book in this library. It's 00:50:01.610 --> 00:50:04.909 a vegan book. It's called How Not to Die by Michael 00:50:04.909 --> 00:50:09.269 Greger. And I was intrigued. Like, this is such 00:50:09.269 --> 00:50:12.730 an interesting title. Let me buy it. I do not 00:50:12.730 --> 00:50:16.449 know what it's talking about. I just bought it. 00:50:17.420 --> 00:50:22.000 When I started reading it, the first page, it's 00:50:22.000 --> 00:50:26.059 telling you to go vegan. And I didn't know what's 00:50:26.059 --> 00:50:30.119 vegan. I never heard of this term. So after reading 00:50:30.119 --> 00:50:33.119 the first chapter, I immediately turned vegan 00:50:33.119 --> 00:50:38.460 in one night. So it started for health purposes. 00:50:38.820 --> 00:50:43.579 And then I started researching about why a person 00:50:43.579 --> 00:50:48.400 should go vegan. My main reason now is ethics 00:50:48.400 --> 00:50:53.019 because people who go vegan for health purposes 00:50:53.019 --> 00:50:56.800 might go back to eating and consuming animals, 00:50:57.219 --> 00:51:02.199 but it's the ethics that counts. And yeah, this 00:51:02.199 --> 00:51:05.699 is how I became vegan. I made the link and I 00:51:05.699 --> 00:51:09.639 remembered Khudra and I have a dog and animals 00:51:09.639 --> 00:51:12.039 have feelings and they feel pain and they do 00:51:12.039 --> 00:51:14.400 not want to die. That's such a beautiful story. 00:51:14.579 --> 00:51:18.500 Thank you for sharing it. Yeah, it reminds me 00:51:18.500 --> 00:51:23.239 of my friend growing up. My parents brought me 00:51:23.239 --> 00:51:28.219 adopted a dog. We called him Berber. And he was 00:51:28.219 --> 00:51:31.260 my friend growing up. And actually, the neighbors 00:51:31.260 --> 00:51:34.159 poisoned him because they did not like the sounds 00:51:34.159 --> 00:51:38.519 that he was making. And I think that also played 00:51:38.519 --> 00:51:43.349 in my story, in the reasons why I... I became 00:51:43.349 --> 00:51:47.769 vegan. So yeah, it's thank you for giving me 00:51:47.769 --> 00:51:50.909 the opportunity to remember that back. You know, 00:51:51.010 --> 00:51:54.690 we need to remember them. And Michael, Michael 00:51:54.690 --> 00:51:58.670 Greger, I met him actually a few months ago. 00:51:59.010 --> 00:52:02.389 He's amazing, you know, very positive, very generous 00:52:02.389 --> 00:52:05.909 with his time and it was at a conference and 00:52:05.880 --> 00:52:10.280 activists were just surrounding him. And, you 00:52:10.280 --> 00:52:13.880 know, I felt bad for him because he did not get 00:52:13.880 --> 00:52:17.420 a minute of rest. You know, there was always 00:52:17.420 --> 00:52:21.440 someone coming up and asking for a picture or 00:52:21.440 --> 00:52:25.940 questions or yeah, beautiful soul. To end the 00:52:25.940 --> 00:52:29.340 conversation, I wanted to ask you about social 00:52:29.340 --> 00:52:33.519 media. Recently, you know, it's been doing the 00:52:33.519 --> 00:52:38.349 rounds. And there's someone who shared his experience 00:52:38.349 --> 00:52:45.050 as a hired social media account for Big Ag. And 00:52:45.050 --> 00:52:49.969 so he was paid $17 an hour to manage different 00:52:49.969 --> 00:52:53.710 social media accounts that were all anti -vegan. 00:52:54.329 --> 00:52:59.570 And he would go and post in the comments of influencers 00:52:59.570 --> 00:53:03.559 like yourself. and organizations, you know, disparaging 00:53:03.559 --> 00:53:07.179 people to go vegan or insulting them, doing just 00:53:07.179 --> 00:53:12.420 his level best to discourage people to become 00:53:12.420 --> 00:53:17.139 vegan. And it's kind of viral right now. It's 00:53:17.139 --> 00:53:21.059 shocking to now know that Big Ag is actually 00:53:21.059 --> 00:53:25.000 hiring people to be negative against veganism 00:53:25.000 --> 00:53:28.360 on social media. What do you make of that story? 00:53:28.780 --> 00:53:31.619 I actually didn't hear of this and now I'm very 00:53:31.619 --> 00:53:35.519 shocked. Okay, so I think it's very common for 00:53:35.519 --> 00:53:39.880 those petty animal abuser businesses to hire 00:53:39.880 --> 00:53:47.860 people to troll and comment on vegan posts to 00:53:47.860 --> 00:53:52.920 demote them to show that they're not credible 00:53:52.920 --> 00:53:57.769 or good. animal consumption. I think it's very 00:53:57.769 --> 00:54:02.050 petty and pathetic. And I think it shows how 00:54:02.050 --> 00:54:04.949 much they know that they're losing. They're losing 00:54:04.949 --> 00:54:07.230 so much money. They're losing so much people. 00:54:07.809 --> 00:54:11.510 A lot of people are diverting to a plant -based 00:54:11.510 --> 00:54:14.449 diet and are learning about animal rights and 00:54:14.449 --> 00:54:17.869 ethics and the environmental impact of a plant 00:54:17.869 --> 00:54:20.630 -based diet. And of course, the main reason to 00:54:20.630 --> 00:54:25.550 go vegan is ethics. And those people are very 00:54:25.550 --> 00:54:31.190 sad and empty and it shows how much they know 00:54:31.190 --> 00:54:36.010 that they're losing. Yeah, they're trolls and 00:54:36.010 --> 00:54:39.110 they're not gonna win because justice will win 00:54:39.110 --> 00:54:42.090 at the end. The people are waking up. The world 00:54:42.090 --> 00:54:44.670 is waking up. They're gonna lose. They're gonna 00:54:44.670 --> 00:54:48.869 fall and we're gonna be there to watch, hopefully, 00:54:49.730 --> 00:54:52.650 to see the downfall of the meat, the dairy and 00:54:52.650 --> 00:54:56.610 the egg industry. I love your optimism. Yeah, 00:54:56.690 --> 00:54:59.730 we should have the equivalent, but, you know, 00:55:00.269 --> 00:55:04.190 as vegans, I have people hired to talk, you know, 00:55:04.190 --> 00:55:07.570 to say positive things about veganism. Someone 00:55:07.570 --> 00:55:11.630 pay Maya to continue posting about veganism. 00:55:12.690 --> 00:55:16.650 I do it for free. Don't say that. They won't 00:55:16.650 --> 00:55:21.730 pay you then. I do it because it's the right 00:55:21.730 --> 00:55:25.000 thing to do. I know it's not a it's not a business 00:55:25.000 --> 00:55:28.219 it's not something that I that I even care about 00:55:28.219 --> 00:55:32.920 making money from you know I just it's a justice 00:55:32.920 --> 00:55:38.000 matter it's it's in Arabic we say wajibna al 00:55:38.000 --> 00:55:44.400 -akhla 'a wajib hadha wajibna to do this yeah 00:55:44.400 --> 00:55:47.360 beautiful yes I feel the same way about this 00:55:47.360 --> 00:55:49.480 podcast you know I'm not making money out of 00:55:49.480 --> 00:55:54.920 it Maya, thank you so much. I love your optimism. 00:55:55.619 --> 00:55:57.679 Did you want to add something before we stop 00:55:57.679 --> 00:56:01.199 the recording? Thank you so much. I think that's 00:56:01.199 --> 00:56:04.340 it. I think I don't have anything else to say. 00:56:04.739 --> 00:56:09.000 It was very nice speaking to you. Thank you everyone 00:56:09.000 --> 00:56:12.199 for listening. I kindly invite you to share this 00:56:12.199 --> 00:56:15.039 podcast with the vegans you know. Let's encourage 00:56:15.039 --> 00:56:17.320 more people to take action.